42. DCC Sound Speaker Test at Chadwick Model railway.

iphone, EM2 or ESU, which speaker is best for DCC sound fitted locos?
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[@roadsandrails]

I am the supplier of the iPhone speaker used in the video, Charlie has asked me to clarify which speaker to use, For most installs I would recommend this speaker because it closely matches the size of the supplied 20x40 speaker roads-and-rails.co.uk/store/p82/Double_iPhone_Speaker_For_DCC_Sound.html The link in Charlie's video description is for a larger version of the speaker which I recommend for Dapol models and some others. If in doubt feel free to email [e-mail] and I will help you choose the right speaker Richard

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Richard, many thanks for the link and I have updated the See More tab. Regards Charlie

[@craiggybear1807]

I'm listening on a system right now built for music production. I have unbelievable studio monitors (speakers) and can tell you that 100% that big fat speaker (3rd one) is by far the most realistic. Where as you mentioned that it seems to lose treble, in fact, when I listen to all KZbin videos with Model sounds, the treble is the main culprit for all unrealistic sound I hear. That was fascinating to hear. Thanks for sharing. :)

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Hamish, many thanks for your thoughts. However, I believe that ideally both the EM2 and a smaller speaker to cover the missing higher frequencies would be ideal. Of course to replicate a full size locomotive with a two inch speaker, is always going to be a compromise. Will I install a EM2 and back it up with a smaller speaker and video the results. I’m worried that once I have installed one, my remaining loco fleet will be put to shame. Regards Charlie

[@craiggybear1807]

Thanks for responding Charlie. I loved this video. :)

[@Synthematix]

Well yes bigger is better but the problem is where to put it, i too am listening on a £2,000 ryzen 2700x music production machine with £240 sennheiser headphones, but this makes hardly any difference through youtube, the golden rule here is simple, fit the biggest speaker you can that has the correct impedance (resistance) for your decoder chip. small speakers have to produce more high frequencies or you wouldnt hardly hear anything, such tiny drivers are not capable of producing good midrange sound at a distance over 6 inches from your ears, but then again they dont have to, usually around 200hz upwards - model railways are scaled down versions of the real thing in every way possible including the speaker output, the best way to run any 00 or N gauge train that has sound is to lower the volume, this will sound better than blasting especially if you have a lot of trains all at once on your layout, then fit small hidden speakers around the layout playing low ambient noise like traffic or other ambient noise, different parts of the layout can be playing different types of sounds from a simple minature stereo amplifier and using an mp3 player, for example left channel does car traffic, right channel does station announcements, once everythings blended in together the outcome is quite surreal and very lifelike, simple stereo files like this can easily be made using audacity by placing your sounds on the left and right channels at the same time, i usually make mine about 30minutes long on a loop but you can go as big as you want. use two small lepai amps and you have quad sound and have 4 zone layout ambient noise, on these two extra channels you could add roadwork noise and the occasional sound of car horns. fix these speaker underneath your baseboard pointing upwards, these are the speakers i use for N scale: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Mylar-Speaker-8ohm-0-5W-40mm-with-Mounting-Flanges-ABS-234-RC/172144056992?hash=item281495daa0:g:cd8AAOSwxcRW8oQZ your earthmover2 speaker that you have would be absolutely ideal for 00 gauge ambient sounds: one must be aware that no real life train scenario has only the sounds of the trains itself and nothing else, there is always other noise everywhere around you and this can be recreated easily on a model railway.

[@joevidal7616]

That was a fantastic Demo, I'm in the US, so I have to take into account any limitations we may have in duplicating what you have, but I'm in the midst of modernizing a slew of Athearn Blue Box locos to DCC and sound, so this is right on time. I'm a new subscriber and having a great time with your content.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Joe, it’s great to have you onboard and I’m so pleased that you enjoy my videos. Regards Charlie

[@deandanielson8074]

Thanks, Charlie for a nice and clear presentation of various DCC speakers and the challenges with each. Dean from Minnesota USA

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Dean, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.

[@kevvynolan8753]

My locos have a mixture of Rail Exclusive boom box, double iPhone and Em2 speakers, depending on the loco and are all fitted with Legomanbiffo. Great video Charlie👍🏻

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Do you have any tender mounted speakers? I need some advice for my King George V.

[@cleo6686]

Remember that once inside the shell, the sound is different again, which offsets some of the higher pitch of the iphone and ESU speakers. Rapido uses single iphone speakers and they sound great. The bass will always be best with the EM2s.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

It’s such a subjective topic Cleo.

[@kite7214]

Thanks Charlie. An oldie, but a goodie. Keith

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you found it useful Keith.

[@mickwalker3926]

another great video charlie , its all down to personal taste , the better you "seal" the speakers the better they sound ,keep up the great work

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Mick. The black tack worked brilliantly. Regards Charlie

[@madformorgan7848]

As usual Charlie, a great informative video. As per some comments below, the EM2 speaker sounds the best to me if there is room to fit one. If not the iPhone speakers come a close second. Thanks Charlie, keep up the good work.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Jeff, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video and hopefully found it useful. Regards Charlie

[@tonydaly2642]

Excellent video Charlie. I would agree with your conclusions on the two speakers. The EM speaker does have great base but I think it loses on the higher sounds concentrating on the base as it does.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. I’ll certainly buy some more iPhone speakers. Regards Charlie

[@oldbloke5277]

Hi Charlie, I've used three EM2's and I think they sound great. It's recommended that a second speaker is used to give the treble sounds if you think it has too much bass at the expense of treble. The problem is that you can usually only get them in by hacking chassis' about. Nice if you have a milling machine, but I used files and a bench grinder along with the Dremel. Edited to say that I missed your post about using another speaker.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Yes it’s a shame having to hack the chassis. Which loco have you fitted out and what did you use for the milling? Regards Charlie

[@oldbloke5277]

I did a Heljan class 47 another Heljan class 52 and a Bachmann DP1. The last is fitted in the tanks. Actually, I cut the sides off the tanks and fixed them to the outside of the speaker. I don't have a milling machine so it was all down to a hacksaw to start the vertical cuts, then the bench grinder to rough out the horizontal work, with the Dremel to finish. It all took a while, but it worked and the loco's pull just as well.

[@alanhutchins4233]

Excellent. Your lapel mike worked very well.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Alan. Regards Charlie

[@Cookie2k]

The iphone speaker is probably the best all rounder but the EM2 certainly has that deep growl of the 37 engine. I’ve used the iphone speaker a couple of times mainly because its so thin and can squeeze into a lot of loco’s without too much hacking of the body shell. Enjoy the weekend Charlie. Until next week bud.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Tase, as usual I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Am I the last person to discover these iPhone speakers?

[@Cookie2k]

Chadwick Model Railway quite possibly Charlie 😛

[@gwrdriver1660]

Hi Charlie, they all sound ok, but I like the EM2 the best, the others sound too loud, sharp and tinny. If you listen to locos at a distance, the sound is quite muffled. For this reason I find the EM2 the most realistic. When I was a kid, I would lay in bed at night and listen to 37s going up and down the valley opposite my house, the EM2 replicates that sound perfectly. Cheers, Rich (South Wales)

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Rich, There is no ideal answer to the problem but if loco size, money and time were not issues then the EM2 with and iPhone speaker seems ideal. The EM2 misses too much of the mid and high frequencies. Regards Charlie

[@greghale9972]

A very thorough assessment of the three speakers, and if I had to choose I would most likely go for the iPhone for its overall range of sounds from bass to treble Cheers Greg

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Greg, I totally agree. I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Regards Charlie

[@briannicholson3491]

Hi Greg, I'm just starting on the model railway, I'm very interested in butting sound on my loco's, I have a Millard Wild Swan and the Tornado class. Would you recommend the iPhone speaker for this. many thanks Brian

[@roadsandrails]

The iPhone speakers sound good in steam too, they are quite small so are easy to fit too

[@Niak38240]

Thanks for that video Charlie for me the most detailled sounding speaker is the Iphone one. Regards Claire-Lee

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

We are on the same side. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@onnomulder9775]

Thanks again Charlie! Forme speaker no. 3. Regards Onno.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Onno. Regards Charlie

[@hansfehlow9657]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing your comments!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Hans, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@johncarvil498]

Hi Charlie, I agree with you the em speaker has the best sound but looses it on the horns. Once again another great video...................John.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi John, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. There is no ideal answer to the problem but if loco size, money and time were not issues then the EM2 with and iPhone speaker seems ideal. The EM2 misses too much of the mid and high frequencies. Regards Charlie

[@Synthematix]

in a lima train you have enough space for a woofer and a tweeter!

[@dgdalydd]

Another great video thanks. I did the same thing snapped off one of the horns but on my class 37.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m sorry Dan, clearly we are both rubbish! I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@Derbys65]

Great video mate , i used iphone speakers in my 37s. You will find the iphone speaker fits in the fan assembly without removing it.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Derby. Did you fit a single speaker or a twin? I couldn’t leave the fan assembly in when fitting a twin. Regards Charlie

[@Derbys65]

Chadwick Model Railway I fitted a twin and sounds great and using tts sound

[@DungeWoodRailway]

Great video Charlie For me its the iPhone speaker as its probably best £ for sound, be interesting to see what everyone thinks. In actual fact if you buy them from Richard as singles they are still better than the esu speaker in my opinion and cheaper. Regards Paul

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Paul. When I bought mine I failed to ask which speakers they are as they are different. Do you know which model they are?

[@DungeWoodRailway]

Hi Charlie As far as I know Richard only has one large iphone speaker or small version, Ive no idea what model they are etc, best ask Richard Im sure he'd advise you. Cheers

[@roadsandrails]

I have spoken to charlie, I now have double iPhone speakers (like in this video) available in 4 sizes to suit most locos as well as single iPhone speakers in 3 sizes. Theres not much between them sound wise, its more a case of just choosing the one that physically fits. Richard

[@pierre-de-standing]

As pretty as the Bachmann 37 is, the wiring inside is a dog's dinner. Good video and I agree that the EM2 loses the higher register tones for the horns etc. I reckon the iPhone once inside the body will be the best compromise - I think I'll get one for my 37 - and the rest!

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. I totally agree that the iPhone speakers are currently the way to go. Regards Charlie

[@ron25wall]

i Charlie, a very imformative video, its helped me a great deal Thank You Ron.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Ron, you’re most welcome. Regards Charlie.

[@kerrieplasom3056]

thanks, great video once again . i find the iphone speaker the best as most of my locos are 37,s good stuff

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Am I the last person to find out about the iPhone speakers?

[@LS3Jack]

Thank you for sharing Charlie. Good information.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Jack. Regards Charlie

[@RJdeVries84]

The Em2 sounds like the Bass speaker I've go installed in my own 37, I do have it paired with a sugarcube to also enjoy the higher tones. I'm also using Legomanbiffo Sounds.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi RJ, the EM2 paired with a sugar cube might be the answer. Regards Charlie

[@roadsandrails]

You have to be careful using the EM2 and another speaker, its 4 ohms so if you wire it to another 4 ohm speaker in series you get 8 ohms which makes it quieter but is safe for the decoder, if you connect it to an 8 ohm speaker in parallel you get about 2.5 ohms which is below whats recommended by ESU and Zimo. Richard

[@RJdeVries84]

@@roadsandrails That is something I'm always keeping in mind, either 4 Ohm or 8 Ohm depending on the type of speaker and configuration.

[@cinqueportcentral1602]

Hi Charlie. I personally thought the EM speaker sounded good. I don't know if you would agree to this or not but,sound pitch can be altered by atmospheric pressure and weather conditions also the density of the surrounding environment i.e. buildings, embankments etc. So when it comes to the choice of a speaker its whats pleasing to the individual ear.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I totally agree and rest assured I will certainly fit an EM2 into one of my locos. The worry though is, will it leave the rest of my fleet in the shadows. Regards Charlie

[@neillscollick6835]

Very good video and interesting to compare the speaker sounds, with the original speaker giving good results and as you say the EM2 having perhaps a little bit too much bass, though like you I'd have opted for the iphone speaker for its good sound and better shape/size. As a point of interest, have you considered trying out the Roco Z21 command station - very easy to use and you can operate the system on your smartphone or tablet.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

His Neill, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed this video too. I only use the Bachman Dynamis for ease of use away from the layout. My layout system is actually Digitrax. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@csxbaltimoresubdivision7746]

Great video, the engine sounds great thanks for sharing....

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Good luck with your layout.

[@csxrensville5105]

The iPhone sounds good also the Locsound one. The Earthmover I wouldn't go for, sometimes bigger is not always better. The speakers will also sound different when the body is fitted as this acts as a sound enclosure. As long as the ratings of wattage and ohms match the amp, it's a question of personal preference.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m in agreement CDX. Big is not necessarily better as you said. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@roadsandrails]

I did a video of one back in the body, it does change the sound a little as you say kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZLOc6Zun8d0mJo

[@jolliemark6294]

a good show Charlie, I think they sounded goo, but personally liked the ESU but like you said for the dfferanc and not having to cut anything the iPhone was good. there is a sugar cube speaker the us really small, I have a friend that installs them I tight spaces all the time. Just one question, how did the guys like riding out in the open like that? ha, ha😆....thanks for sharing....Jack

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video Jack. The guys in the cold should have tried harder at school. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@briannicholson3491]

Hi Charlie, another great video on sound, for the locomotive's. I'm dtill new to this model railway hobby, would you still recommend the iPhone speaker as an overall sound. Have you ever done a video on putting lights in coaches, that would be great to see done by yourself on you video clips. many thanks Brian

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Brian, I certainly recommend it for the class 37. I’m unsure about the rest just yet but it does seem favourable. For coach lighting, take a look through “Everard Junction” videos. Richard did a great one several years ago. Regards Charlie

[@RWL2012]

The EM2 looks to be Tang Band-designed and built, based on their T1 series modules.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

But it is a cracking speaker. Regards Charlie

[@OPHYCLIDE]

Hi Charlie, I've commented on other videos before how much I admire your hymek. My wife has very kindly just purchased a Hymek for me and I obviously now need to get some sort of decoder and speaker for it? What setup did you settle on when you did your Heljan Hymek sound conversion? Agree with your conclusions in this video that roadsandrails double iphone speaker is the most convincing sounding all rounder. But, presumably it's a case of buying half a douzen speakers and trying them out? I don't really want to start hacking the chassis around on my first attempt - I've fitted a decoder before but never attempted a sound conversion! All the best, Jon.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi John, I suggest that you contact Legosoundmanbiffo. My sound file is in an ESU V3.5 decoder which is well out of date. You’ll be using a V5.0 so just ask which speaker would be best without taking a saw to the model. My small speaker is in the rear cab with the cab detail removed.

[@MikeThomasRailRoadOverhaul]

Very good

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Mike, I’m glad that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie

[@jpsholland]

You forgot one thing, to demonstrate the sound with the body mounted. My experience is that it very often change the sound again, and sadly, not for the better part.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

A fair point JP.

[@SammoKarm]

How did you find out the polarity of the phone speaker?

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I just connected up it Sam. To be honest I didn’t realise they were polarity conscious.

[@ScottDowneywoundedbear]

I use the iPhone 5 speaker. I get them from China really cheap. They are the same ones Rapido uses in their loco's.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Scott, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video. Am I the last person to find out about the iPhone speakers?

[@jamesstuartjones2652]

Hi Charlie l have a peco layout track and points control with a Hornby DCC elite l am having a problem with some of the points not reversing,it can you help,l could send you a video Rgds Stuart

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Please confirm that you are using Peco electrofrog points with an accessory switch to reverse the frog polarity?

[@NS3644]

iPhone speaker sounds so tinny it isn't funny. Maybe look into investing in a couple of sugar cube speakers Charlie as they should fit nicely in the loco's limited space. Just my $1AUD worth :) as we don't have 2c here anymore.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

There is no ideal answer to the problem but if loco size, money and time were not issues then the EM2 with and iPhone speaker seems ideal. The EM2 misses too much of the mid and high frequencies. Regards Charlie

[@stocktonjunction]

Great video im just changing to oo from n as i want sound locos and much easier in oo too but im fairly new to all this sound stuff id be competent in changing a speaker over no problem but u talk about sound chips reprogramed with better sounds etc where do u buy them ready done or reprogram them yourself ? U mentioned a link but on my app i cant see a link posted any chance of linking it in a reply please and where do u get the speakers from ? I just got a hornby class 50 and bachmann class 20 dcc sound factory installed so prob speakers wont be that great

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Stockton, Welcome to OO and it’s exciting world of DCC sound. The best thing for you to do is just some slow research. Zimo and ESU make the best sound decoders and I’m sure in time your preferences will grow. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@roadsandrails]

Most Hornby class 50's and Bachmann Class 20's which have factory fitted sound are fitted with Loksound 3.5 decoders, these use a 100 ohm speaker which is far less common than the 4 or 8 ohm speakers the newer ones use. The best option usually for the Loksound 3.5 is to reblow them with Howes or Legomanbiffo sound and make sure the speaker is in a sealed enclosure. Something I can help with if needed. The main thing though is that you don't try and use the wrong speaker because using a 4 ohm speaker on a loksound 3.5 will damage it. If I can help please email [e-mail]

[@Synthematix]

Hello again, if at all possible could you do a video on how to wire insulfrog points for dcc? as electrofrog are not an option for me as im using peco n gauge setrack, thanks m8.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Sorry but I have no knowledge of Peco N Gauge track. I suggest that you keep searching on KZbin. Normally, on 00 Gauge, no modifications are required. Regards Charlie

[@Synthematix]

Chadwick Model Railway Ok cheers, so i just add drop-downs at either side of the point yea? ill only be using about 4 sets of peco strack n gauge points anyway with dcc motors

[@itolond]

is it possible to program/ record your own sounds for DCC sound unit

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m sorry but I don’t think so.

[@PorcyMane]

The Aye phone speaker has it. (More fidelity)

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

You’re dead right Porcy. Have you subscribed mate?

[@gibsonethirty2836]

1st Place EM2, 2nd Place ESU and coming a way way long last is the crappy tinny IPhone

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Each to our own mate.

[@reded23]

This is where you can get those EM2 style speakers in various sizes. I've used the 3 smallest ones in different locos depending on the room available. (these are a lot cheaper too) www.parts-express.com/brand/tang-band/276?N=4294965074+4294967118+4294964897&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bendeca%3Amatches%28.%2C%22P_PortalID%22%2C%221%22%29+and+endeca%3Amatches%28.%2C%22P_Searchable%22%2C%221%22%29%5D&PortalID=1&brandSelected=t

[@reded23]

or here www.tb-speaker.com/products/list/31 distributed in UK by www.sineaudio.co.uk

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Eddie, Many thanks for the link. However, I imagine that you’re State Side avoiding the postal charges. Good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie

[@geoffwalker315]

I phone for me. P.S. Buffer missing No 2 end. Geoff. W.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Geoff, I must agree, and sort out my little test track. Regards Charlie

[@jamiermathlin]

2 x Zimo Sugar Cube speakers do it for me :-)

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Hi Jamie, I have 2 sugar cubes in my 08 shutter but they do lack some bass. What do you have yours installed in?

[@roadsandrails]

If you take an iPhone speaker apart it closely resembles a sugarcube speaker inside. The main difference between the 2 is the enclosure. Because the sugaecubes are fully sealed they tend to be slightly quieter than the iPhone speakers in my experience. Richard

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Thanks Richard.

[@paredding]

Very interesting as I have used sugar cubes in all mine too following the articles in Hornby Mag with Paul Chetter.

[@jacjac5761]

To me the Iphone has more clarity.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Jac.

[@nigelcarter9503]

From an uneducated point of view, Charlie, I thought the iPhone speaker was good.

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Nigel, I totally agree. Regards Charlie

[@Synthematix]

Are you doing weight lifting charlie? you look like a tank here

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

I like to keep myself fit but it must’ve been bad camera angles this time!

[@Synthematix]

@@ChadwickModelRailway Lol