Challenger ADC's Guide to Lane Matchups Pt. 1: Trade vs Catch

[@godmakoto1041]

-Category : Videogames- *Category : Education*

[@MagneticEnigma_YT]

bro.. facts

[@yeetusmcfeetus1031]

what happens when you trade with a kaisa nami? Y O U G E T S H I T O N

[@TwoLargePizzas]

Saber: "most players will just immediately run in and help and get hooked in the face". Me: I feel so insulted.

[@Sl4ym4tr14]

Fucking felt that

[@geoffreymille5160]

lmao

[@SooyeonIdle]

Me-

[@JomaSnow]

This is perfect. I can see the potential for the best bot lane focus educational content on youtube. If you can keep up with this style of focusing solely on one topic per video it would be really helpful to refer back to them in the future. I liked how you avoided talking about wave management and when to ward, as it opens up the possibility for more in-depth videos in the future. Perhaps after you’re done with laning (matchup, wave, when to ward, losing matchups, playing around jungler, idk) you could make some videos around mid and late game ideas, such as how to keep your cs up and proper objective control. Also, i think there’s a way of disabling your game cursor when viewing replays but i’m not sure. It would help having only one cursor moving when you’re pointing stuff lol. Or you could use epic pen as plenty other coaches do. Anyway, this is among the best educational videos on league and there’s definitely potential here. Thank you for your initiative, time and effort, and may this comment motivate you to keep going ❤️

[@xFSNSaber]

yeah definitely gonna look up a way to draw on the screen i only realized you couldn't see the white cursor until after I recorded haha. Thanks for the comment and I hope you'll keep watching!

[@kamisc2865]

@@xFSNSaberTry EpicPen. It's what I think LS uses.

[@xFSNSaber]

ty will do

[@jordank3138]

Wow. I learned more from this 15 minute video than I did with all 18 videos of Pro guides. Nice work Saber I really enjoy your videos and how you can simplify it so even low ELO's such as myself can understand.

[@illinoska]

This is really good. To the point, clear instructions with examples, no bullshit intro, no going out of topic. Thanks a lot!

[@ocryptix7740]

You should do a video like this for each of the 4 lane types against the other 3 types. Great video, I gained a lot from watching this.

[@DoYouEvenRift]

lmao thats like .... a lot of videos

[@TheBobersnip]

I'd watch them all.

[@DoYouEvenRift]

sure, but think of how much work that is to make for probably nothing except our gratitude LOL

[@shaun4676]

@@DoYouEvenRift you can check out his stream too to support him making these videos

[@MrUndergamer]

only 5 more vids seems reasonable :D

[@z098z]

My god, this is like exactly what I have been struggling with these last years playing league. I never got any higher than Gold V because I didn't really know what to do better than just focusing on cs. Thank you so much for these videos and I can't wait for the next ones!

[@headofkeks]

These guides are soo good, you focus on few points and show them again and again, simple and easy to follow, really learned something here

[@celvinmetz5569]

Hey Saber, First of all, thank you for all the great content you provide. I‘ve been watching almost all your coaching videos over the last few months and were able to climb from Gold 5 to Plat 2. You have a very good way of explaining things which makes it easy to implement your knowledge into my own games. I REALLY like these new kind of videos, since most people probably don‘t have the time to watch a whole 1 or 2-hour coaching, so I feel like you‘ll get a lot more viewers by putting up short educational videos. One thing that I think would help a lot is a full list of supports with their classes. I‘m at high Plat right now and there are still some supports like Lulu which I‘ve never played. This leads to me knowing how to play versus certain lane categories, but that doesn‘t help me if I don‘t actually know under which category the enemy or my own support falls. Another thing that probably needs to be teached is how important it is to be at the right spot at the right time. I‘ve always wondered how the LCS players get so much more CS than me and thought it has something to do with mechanical errors, but after watching hours of your coachings I figured it‘s mostly about getting your own lane during midgame and not the actual act of CSing that went wrong. Maybe that‘s just me, but I think that‘s a topic that would help alot of other players. I‘ve been writing down every tip i got from your coachings, so I‘ll send you a PM with these. Maybe you can find something in there for your videos. Also congrats on getting partnered by League! You deserve it my dude, keep up the good work (so I can finally hit Diamond). ;) Peace out and much love

[@yuutazzzzz]

Hey m8 quite late to ask this but could you send me the tips that you got from his coaching, unfortunatly i dont have to watch all his videos so if you could help me would love it ! Im g2 btw!

[@succybuzz]

Alternative order for mnemonics: P.A.C.T. - Poke, All-in, Catch, Trade.

[@scott1191]

Saber, I think you should make a Excel sheet reference guide for the "Poke, Catch, Trade an All In". So going into games we could refer to that sheet to see how we should be playing. Otherwise great content man.

[@clasnikh]

Yes please :'(

[@theanimefreak8200]

you can learn this by just looking at champ select or or log screen catch= anything cc/ poke equal any dmg abilities

[@Eric-bj3mn]

I think this is something you should learn on your own, and in turn, it will help you improve. Over time you will see the same supports over and over and you should be able to use some critical thinking to figure it out. i.e: they pick a Zyra support. Think about her abilities and how she works. Her best attribute is aggressive poke and harass with plants and abilities. You should then be able to categorize that matchup into the "poke" matchup. You can do this in the loading screen.

[@collinbrown9233]

I’m curious Would you call tahm kench more catch or all-in? His swallow is a little unique

[@XXaxersXX]

@@Eric-bj3mn Just to add on top of it, it's also catch with her E into R.

[@tyomphia]

These are really good, took me watching like 3-5 of your coaching videos for this to sink in. This helps way faster

[@hyp3c4rry]

Still one of the best ADC guides to this day, thank you so much saber

[@dariofcesteves]

Saber: you literally cant dodge point click abilities Master yi: hold my beer

[@Yeetfrog69]

DR. ExileSniper well yi is a melee champion. Except WarWicks Ultimate

[@omegaminoseer4539]

Saber, I look forwards to heralding your return to LoL after months of absence. To this day, your videos have been a source of begrudging information, where I think I'm too good for them, only to be slapped back down with realization. I wish you well; I pray that the game is what you'd wanted as an experience.

[@Arvensa]

This video is *super* valuable. I'm saving it to my playlist that I keep to help teach friends who are lower on the ladder than me.

[@Unelith]

I'm rewatching this video after a long time, it was really fun having 3 cursors on the screen at the same time

[@lukaviljanac2301]

I have literally everywhere searched for this kind of videos, i'd give u 100 subs if i can, u are not that famous but dude u deserve waaaaay more recognition that this! Much love

[@1481Connors]

This is such a good video. I've just gotten back into League (Played a long time ago but took years off). I've never heard this explained this way before and it instantly made me think differently about how I've been laning.

[@themushroomwizard]

Came here from Summoner's school. I main ADC, mostly MF and Jhin, appreciate all the content keep up the good work.

[@absenteechild8542]

I'm a d2 player and this completely opened my eyes. Like obviously I vaguely understood what matchups work how, but often I found myself losing to worse players due to dumb stuff like all ining with a thresh lane Anyways, catch a sub m8

[@Oyasumipunpun-r8w]

Diamond 3 was my peak and I still learn tons from this video. Really good video!

[@radoslavmechev5348]

Your idea for the future videos is pretty much the best you can do for your audience!!! So keep up the good work we appreciate you bro!!!

[@nemanjavujic7244]

i watched so many guides and this man told me everything i need to know in one video big like from me dude

[@Tomatoboy1234]

“Remember, number 2 comes first” LMAO but great video dude keep it up

[@sharkbait201]

I just discovered your videos today. This is the second video I'm watching. I hope to see many more in this type of format. Thanks for the content

[@AnyGame305]

Thanks again Saber. I appreciate this challenger adc guide series and watch it everytime it comes out!

[@berg2ker15]

This clip really help me. I've never paid attention to match-up and that really helped me.

[@simonsays5094]

super educational video, i recently started playing the adc role and this explains so much i didn't know

[@avibenz4811]

bro the intro of this video has SOOOOO MUCH value bro. Good shiet.

[@juanthehorse4164]

Great video ^^ . I feel like in this patch there are like a lot more catch supports than in the past patches maybe I'm wrong but that's what I feel. That's why I would love to see you play the catch vs trade match up you being the catch.

[@xFSNSaber]

Tomorrow

[@Tryforce2317]

Really appreciate this kind of commentary. Look forward to more!

[@nahuelperez7314]

Very good video! I think it's easier to learn the main concepts with this kind of video: short and concise. I really want you to make more like this one ;) thank you!!

[@albertfritz8074]

What could quinn do better in this matchup? Would be interesting cause she cant actually cs.

[@xFSNSaber]

If you are against a trade lane, you can win trades if they facetank backline minions. For example, if I walk up into their ranged minion line thresh can flay ignite and Quinn can dump her full combo into my face making my trade into an all in

[@shyguy5880]

but what if you dont walk into their ranged minions

[@albertfritz8074]

@@shyguy5880 then he cant punish his last hits. Thanks for the answer btw:)

[@an0nsaiko890]

@@shyguy5880 in this case they cant really do anything by themselves and should probably wait for a jungle gank/mid roam.

[@robertradutu2543]

so basically quinn should not farm(just if its free) and keep her hp to an all in

[@عبدالعزيزالمهيدب-ه5ص]

OMG I WAS WAITING THIS FOR A LONG TIME!! OMG I LOVE IT Keep it up we want more

[@AnnoG]

2:24 Hook King flexing

[@armandoleyba92]

Very clear high quality content! Explained so that anyone can understand. Keep it up!

[@willcramer1866]

super helpful bro keep making this cause im trash, idk if you already have videos on this but it would be good to learn about team fights and what to do late game as adc as well as laning phase

[@oscarmarreroengstrom6115]

This is really great. Thank you form makings this video! I know there's a ton of videos out there about wave managerment, but I would really like to watch one made by you. I really like your style and could learn a bit more about that topic. Have a great day!

[@Straelight]

Definetly gonna need that part 2! Good stuff my dude, keep it up 👍

[@a-carvalho8751]

Damn you have such a great content. I hope your channel grows up fast, 'cause you deserve it.

[@bl4cklotus91]

Love the video! I am learning so much from this. I do have a quesiton regarding the part where Nami is engaged on / caught by Thresh, maybe someone can help me there. So Saber doesn't engage there, because the matchup tells him that it is loosing, since Nami got engaged on. But the situation is playing out super slowly and he just waits for Nami to land his CC and then goes in himself. I just recently had a lane where my support firstpicked Ashe Support and we had to face a Leona and Ezreal in lane (I was Jhin). So I basically already knew this was a rough matchup, because Leona can basically just engage whenever she wants to and blow Ashe up. My question would be: Do I just get the f*** out of there as soon as Leona lands E or Ultimate on Ashe? My first instinct would obviously be to go and help, but after the fight went terribly bad that particular match, I feel like I need to immediately cut my losses and just run. Do I attack Leona to do as much damage as possible without committing? In this particular match, I made the grave mistake of committing on the Ezreal, thinking back to another of Saber's videos where he said to go for the ADC in 2v2. But I don't think this was a situation where that particular advice was applicable. So if any of you guys understood any of my rambling and have some insights of your own, please do share! :)

[@franciscofernandez6873]

It would be nice to talk about starting items considering the match ups, I find myself a lot of times thinking if D shield is best or just stick to the ring etc. great video anyway!

[@trashgames8121]

Francisco Fernández as a rule of thumb, I go dorans shield over blade when the enemy support has more range with their aa's than mine

[@ms.springfield8766]

Holy shit It's 11pm at the time I am watching this. You're a freaking wizard man.

[@Eat2Snickers]

Love your videos! Very helpful to me and my friend. He is new to league and I've been trying to teach him as he levels. Keep them up I'm excited for part 2!

[@vincent-ataramaniko]

Insane video man, why didn't I bump into this sooner

[@elijahbluhm8097]

Best video I’ve seen so far. Great job!

[@MyPetCupcake]

Part 2 of how to play the lane from the catch vs trade perspective sounds good!

[@aleksis007]

Your videos help me a lot. Thank you so much for doing these.

[@vermiculo5060]

This might be a later video, but what should be the ideal position of the wave for your support being catch, trade, and poke lanes?

[@joefish41]

Love these videos. Really looking forward to the other side of the matchup. As a Gold adc I find the poke and sustain lanes the easiest to play so it is the other side I'd like to see the tips.

[@m9rble]

Please make more of these! Very helpful!

[@fearless_2i]

I don't always comment youtube videos, but when I do the vid is really really good content. Thanks and well done man

[@coldarranix1618]

Also keep in mind the diference of ADC's Auto Attack range, it will help you with pooking wheb they go for a CS!

[@leonyeo7798]

Saber you're killin' it. MORE BEFORE BEDTIME VIDS

[@SaaZlol]

Great video! I hope you do more videos like this in the future, they are really insightful

[@joshbaker9111]

I enjoyed this. It would be nice to see 3 more showing tips for the other 3 support types. Would the 4th category "hard cc" be going for an all in play style? Or just try to punish them for the opponent's mistake?

[@Cres99]

Would love to get a video on when to push, especially after ganks or bot fights and deciding whether to push wave or not if it goes even and its in a bad spot for you, something like that. Thanks for this vid tho!

[@cynthianova2844]

10:40 and what would you do if Nami gets hooked there and all-ined? Would you just go out?

[@nico518]

after nami gets hooked there is no threat of getting hooked so you can walk up and help

[@gabriellesta7568]

A complete series oficina how todo play ADC PogChamp

[@mne-holodno]

Hey, could you give some tips against Draven/Lucian/MF, basically bully adcs

[@xFSNSaber]

stay out of range and wait for them to overextend into your minions

[@mne-holodno]

What if enemy botlane is pushing us 24/7 and our tower is nearly gone, their midlaner and jungler dives us and we lose tower. What to do next? If I just farm botlane, they will go top and get herald and we just lose objectives for free.

[@xFSNSaber]

match them or if you're super far behind stay and push bot. sometimes you just have to make as much money as possible to outscale them before you do something

[@mne-holodno]

Okay, thank you. What would you suggest picking into Draven? I struggle to lane against him.

[@Sky-lw5pr]

Usually you want to freeze the lane outside your terret and farm. Try catch for overextension. *Call Jungler when they want to push the wave into your terret*. If u have a all in support and they dont, you can still win all in as long as your sp lands his cc. You can only win trade if they used a spell on minions. Like MF q, lucian q. Dont try to trade when they have everything.

[@vlk092]

best content i've seen about league

[@nathansmith4591]

miss your videos man, life without league probs fire tho. but damn you tought me so much I'll never forget ty bro

[@KoreanAlpaca]

you're so underrated man love the vids keep it up!

[@deltoid4]

Great Video, Enjoyed it. Learned a little, look forward to the next

[@stormraider2626]

Can you make another video exactly like this but adding BOTH junglers into calculation? 10:00 is the exact same time the enemy 10/0 khazix killed me and my support without thresh or quinn landing a single ability, AND i used my matchup advantage to the fullest

[@Flintier]

Awesome vid man! Really informative, short and concise. 👌👌👌

[@hawksquid]

Thank you so much for these videos! They are unbelievably helpful, keep it up!

[@jkljajic]

Love the videos. Keep going. You deserve more views for sure.

[@Alex-zh3dq]

Hi Saber, As you're laning, are you always thinking about what you're doing in the abstract ways you described (e.g. I have Nami so I want to take trades and avoid all-ins) or is it more instinctual? I feel like thinking about the game in such a way is good for understanding the basics but too binary to apply in real games. For example, taking trades against Nami is generally bad but if she's walking past your minion line you may as well take her W so you can be free to CS for the next 10 seconds. I'm asking because I often think about how I'm going to play the lane in the first 2 minutes, but it ends up playing out completely differently..

[@xFSNSaber]

For me I say "the rule is don't trade with nami" and the exception is "if she's face tanking ranged minions we can trade favorably"

[@Nameless_rat]

Have you ever made a chart with the different lane types and each support associated with them? It’d be a nice reference

[@thomaswoods7522]

You are the reason why i'm climbing amazing content !

[@frankieoliveras1271]

thank you. I've always struggled with laning

[@hrishikeshsrimannarayan9163]

As Pyke CS becomes hard so should I just look to catch with my hook ?

[@tamirulziitogtokh2162]

I think i can't find any good tips like this without payment, can you explain about the opposite position? Like vs poke as catching? Keep up the good work buddy!

[@fe4midlaner]

Loved the vid! would love to see more like this.

[@ingeniussoul8390]

whats the behaviour to have against a poke lane ? Not playing passive ? Use our win condition at the fullest, right ? Is there an idea of counter, like paper rock cisor, but with poke / catch / trade / all in ?

[@liamsal9968]

I never even thought about that trading, so that's why I keep losing on bottom XD Thanks for this

[@SooyeonIdle]

Literally pros: a 2 hour guide literally teaching you NOTHING This guy: 15 minutes of me showing and telling you how to play ADC As an ADC main I tend to switch it up a lot, but when I play support I still play like an ADC, but this guide looks like it’ll help me be a better ADC since I play so agro.

[@SimplyXera]

Thank you for this! The best tutorials I've seen of bot lane. A quick question: why do so many higher elo players rush atk speed boots and atk speed in general rather than a BF sword or dmg? Is this is to allow for maximum auto atks in between farming and harassing? Also a big issue for me is when to harass/atk their support vs the Adc when poking or fighting? Thank you!

[@hakametal]

AS is cheaper and it depends on their gold. You usually never rush AS if you have enough gold.

[@caozicoaching]

So lets say you are in the gameplay draven with the nami support against quinn and thresh. Should i also play like that ? Because MANY draven mains say that you want to push like all the time and hit them under tower... idk i feel like both are viable strategies but i think its would be way more safe to play like you did in that gameplay because if thresh hits like a single q you are basically dead since you are right next to their tower and the lane is so long due to me pushing

[@SbremboMkultra]

Man. Wtf tris video is so amazing man. I m climbing so fast After i ve watched some of ur tutorial on how to not ve bad at league. Dude u are doing an amazing full detail ad tutorial. I reali thank u. Greetin from a big fan Who is tryin to main ads

[@InkWavve]

Would "wave clear" be a determining category? For example, if you're Sivir, then can't you kind of ignore support matchup and just push 24/7? And how would you deal with something like a Sivir that just shoves you under turret constantly, despite the fact that you should win all in? Also, nice videos. Subscribed.

[@xFSNSaber]

pushing's a whole 'nother beast, and if sivir is shoving you in and you have all in go around and gank your own lane/all in her if she tries to hit a minion

[@InkWavve]

@@xFSNSaber Ganking my own lane. Never thought of that lol. Thanks!

[@definitelycultured7521]

thx for making this kind of videos, i gained a lot as an adc main out of it :3

[@sylvcast9948]

As a support main this was super useful.

[@epicgreenlink]

Do u think u can maybe list of every support and name what type of lane they categorized in? Most r simple to tell but some r kinda confuse to categorize

[@ldkillem3155]

The only good fecent in depth guide to adc its gr8

[@shaarkt]

Great videos, could u explain why u would prioritize Boot lv2 over BF ? some ppl like rekkles even buy boots on a 2k gold recall (boots lv2 + double long sword dagger)

[@xFSNSaber]

sometimes if you have no flash you would prefer to get boots, or if your lane is trade vs catch and you really dont want to get caught, ect ect. Rekkles seems like he wants to push and be safe with boots so he'll get it and I think it's a really safe option

[@adeladam2325]

love this. Can we get part 2 next? and then a video on wave management?

[@ninjapinguin5892]

Saber when you talked about the 4 types you forgot All-In

[@PerfectDarkZero021]

Hi thx for the video, it really helped me understand how to win lane and to avoid losing lane. I actually have problems farming mid game, i dont know when to farm or when to fight or which lane should i rotate to when behind/ahead. Would really help me get out of plat 5 if you could do a video on this!

[@Qav999]

What's your opinion on the lucian/braum matchup? I can't seem to consistently win against it despite trying different strategies and playing around my support.

[@dylanbland9793]

Video on when it's important to concede cs or risk for gold according to matchup or when behind.

[@xFSNSaber]

It's never worth to get hit hard for cs unless you're already basing

[@altair6616]

keep doing what u do because u r the best i saw making these tutorials

[@nondogmaticyesh8939]

Very good. Yeah i switched from one trick garen to the old aatrox and now adc. Adc seems very hard from a top laner perspective, because of the supports. I play funky and come up with my own strategies, (for example i even have a plan when i'm laning them 2v1). Which would be a good video btw. It's the supports that get to me. Not many support mains in low elo and that makes this very hard. The trading and catching i understand. Poking (is what they usually like to get. And if we winning then good we have a happy support. But if we are losing dam. It's like they gave up and their behavior afterwards becomes a liability to me cause i personally hav a plan for a losing lane but they dont and i don't want to tell them what to do, you know argue or type down a whole paragraph. What do we do if we have a support sup. and wont land the skill shots and the enemy wants to capitalize on that? Like if i was top lane and my jg'er was feeding i would simply tell him to get out my lane that "i'll be fine". The support however can't go anywhere till level 6 probably but who knows some are not stupid and would go and help the mid laner or jg'er. Say a support like brand. Not very mobile and is better being level up rather then roaming and possibly getting caught. Can you make a video of what exactly the role of the support and adc is in your opinion and what to do while ahead or behind. Messure and counter messures. Good stuff btw.

[@MeisterC]

Just found this channel, and the videos are awesome. Keep up the great work!

[@mindofbeasts]

I like how most of these tips and rules arent gonna work that well in low gold or under 😢. Otherwise as a returning adc player this is amazing.

[@sophiayamagughi]

This gave me understand when trading and going in is appropriate :D

[@abell7683]

Hey xFSN Saber , could you give some tips on how you bully with draven. also how do you freeze with draven considering you need to keep two axes up to do sufficient damage.

[@oGxRaaRaa]

How would you handle a short range ADC vs a long range ADC? As a solo Q