Channel intro and Smithy Talk - Pt 2 of 2

Mostly a walk around a Smithy CB-1220 3-in-1 lathe/mill/drill machine. I discuss shortcomings, experiences, and some modifications made to it.
Check out Stefan Gotteswinter's video Shop Talk #7 for some more ideas: • Shoptalk #7 / 9x20 lat...

[@davelassell]

These two videos helped me so much, man. I know you point out all the stuff you don't like, but it's become a labor of love for sure. I'm about to go pick up a years newer/cleaner version of this machine so I can do some of both processes just to get myself started. Very cool mods.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Good for you, David, and welcome to the cheap seats! Get yer feet wet, learn the ropes, then show me what the hell I keep doing wrong.

[@davelassell]

Eddie the Grouch pretty sure I won't be doing anything correctly for a good long time yet.

[@bscguitars2278]

Man I have watched countless hours of video and never have I ever seen anybody as on point with real information as you are great freaking job dude you are absolutely correct when you say proof of concept leave that joker alone you go back and machine all these pretty parts and make it perfect and for some reason it just never works at least not as good as proof of concept.

[@michaelcapp4597]

You are so well educated I enjoyed the 2 videos so much thank you

[@nated1971]

Great set of videos, Grouch! It looks like we have the same machine, mine has some of the "controls" in different places. Stefan Gotteswinters tail stock was on my list and now your power mill head is there as well. Thanks for taking the time to make the videos.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Nathan Davey You are welcome and thanks for watching. If you come up with anything else lemme know.

[@johnsavoy4784]

Being a Smithy owner, these are nice up grades,I will not talk bad of my Smithy CB1239XL,but it does leave you wanting more,It did complete the job t was bought for beyond my expectations. 15 years later I still have and use it

[@MakinSumthinFromNuthin]

I dont own one of these Eddie, but love the way you tricked it out. Great use of making due with what ya got! 👍🏼

[@johnwilson3668]

Hi Eddie I bought a Clarke lathe, a newer model .The lathe paid for itself on the first job .I didn’t need the milling attachment because I have a Bridgeport The two screws you mentioned on the longitudanal and cross slide came undone within an hour of using it (intermittent cutting).So I replaced them with a lot longer high tensile cap head screw with a point ground on the end to engage into the dimple on the bush and fitted a lock nut .It has not vibrated loose since then

[@pondafarr]

You have some seriously good ideas (that tail stock holder...WOW) and the diagrams are great too!

[@josephlovell6951]

Thanks for sharing all this. I just picked up a harber fright clone. I have a southbend 9 lathe and a 7 in shaper and both need repairs. Hopefully I can make what I need for them

[@M3rVsT4H]

I've really appreciated these vids about your machine. Quite literally the best information I've found on the net about these units. FWIW, In case it helps anyone else, the one I'm looking at is branded as a Huangshan AT300/2x500. And it looks like it landed in Australia 20-30 years ago. Although after this shining review, I might keep looking.. lol.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Thank you for that bit of info. Now, if I ever visit China, I'll know which grass hut to throw rocks at! I've long since ceased thinking of this thing as a machine tool and consider it an experimenters kit - a learning aid. How Not To Make Tools and How To Fix Crap. I just picked up some NEW replacement parts and they are of the same quality as the 19th Century originals.

[@toolguy6057]

You have some good ideas! Gets me thinking. Thanks for sharing!

[@rox2u]

I have the exact same unit actually. Pick it up for 500 bucks (little use and with a lot of accessories) 10 years ago. Haven't used it much but spent one week tinkering with it this summer. Had a lot of back lash in every axis. Gibs were fine (although I have that same issue with em being tight in one spot and then to tight at another) but the bearings at the handles were not and the main problem was the brass nut. With that fixed I can do something that looks nice. I certainly will do that gib lock mod to the cross slide.

[@fuzzymiller7158]

the model # AT300 on the broken Smitty. from Fuzzy Miller. thank you for the help

[@Xynudu]

Good one Eddie (both videos). Some really interesting and great mods there. The Smithy seems to be a love it or hate it machine. It certainly has some handy capabilities. I've looked at them and wondered. I sense you are kinda attached to it now. Space is an issue with me too, and a full sized mill would be great, but it's too much machine at present for the amount of use it would get. Regarding the cross slide twisting when you advance it, I also do milling on the lathe, and the best way to advance the cross slide is by pushing it with the tailstock. This stops it twisting and tilting, as it applies pressure in line with the spindle. Just depends how you can get around the fixed leadscrew nut problem. Something to think about. May not be practical for your machine. Great videos - I'm slowly going through them. Cheers Rob .

[@donalddaniels5848]

First of all i am happy to hear someone call it what it is. I know because i have one too, possibly older than yours. Mine has polyurethane o ring belts and they are surprisingly strong and easy to make any legnth from long tube stock. I am stealing your table gib lock idea thats useful. Second i am bewildered by all your modifications. i can watch that video all day. I too am interested in deleron nuts. Lastly my attention was drawn to your furnace and the flexible gas line sitting in the stamped out sheet metal hole in the cabnet without a grommet. Surely its not the most sketchy thing in your shop but you may not know its potential for danger and it doesnt evan need your participation to make a bad day.

[@barrycass2820]

I wish you make more 3/1 comb video making tool and stuff

[@robertmccully2792]

what machine did you use to refine your machine? These are the problems that we had in the late 1800 building a machine to build a better machine. You're a genius. Nice job.

[@johnzarollin2749]

excellent mods very inventive. I like the back-saving swing-out for the tailstock. What is generating the steeper signals? I have the pre-machine age 1220 that has a 3 axis DRO installed that I want to setup some stepper motors to. Hand cranking through tight/loose spots is a killer. Changing the brass longitudinal screw nut and the toolpost feed nut made a huge difference in eliminating slop. Have a DC treadmill setup I'd like to incorporate for quick stopping during threading jobs. As it is the AC motor drive train coasts to a stop after about 1/4" pending thread bite. Realized after making an adj. micro switch to solenoid power disengagement that you can't do that. Jumped way over the fine print on that one. Just got a Parker Daelous lineal drive table 8" x 16" with stepper and DRO position scale. Hope to replace the tool post carriage. At any rate keep up the good work and let me know on the stepper electronics if possible .

[@CJ_LEGAN]

Your closing saying " Don't pinch your D!(+ in a vise" made me spew my beer all over...... Bastard! Very nice mods!

[@darynradcliffe2909]

blimey, a lot of work, I've a "3 -1" machine but it it's a emco maximat v10p so built to toolroom standards, that didn't stop a few improvements mind! thanks for the videos :-)

[@slavicaidjukamarkovic2235]

bravo,za inovacije great video

[@ShuffleSk8Ter]

I must agree you cannot buy this kinda knowledge without spending blood sweat and tears....the big boys would have no idea what to with imperfect machines :)

[@1toastandjam1]

Hey Eddie Good job on the video's I have a smithy cb1239 which I think was built in the century after yours. It seems to be a fair machine for the little I have had used it. I was seriously thinking of trying to sell it again (tried once before with no takers) but after seeing the Mods you have made I think i will give the old girl another crack at fixing her up. I hope you make some more videos on how you upgraded each piece of your machine. I have a tread mill motor and controls and I might start there. stay well and keep your pieces parts out of the vice....Stan

[@EddieTheGrouch]

+Stan Kuczynski Hi Stan. That machine looks to have some nice potential. I wish my mill head had that kind of reach. What size (physical) TM motor do you have to play with? I've been waiting for some warmer days to play in the shop. What mods are you most interested in at the moment? -Grouchy

[@johnsavoy4784]

I too have a cb 1239, I believe it was made a century before, as it does leave a lot to be desired, also tried selling with no takers, however in the last 14 years I have done much work on it, it did the work it was purchased for, and the 5000$ plus it saved me on that project alone paid for itself, If you don't mind a rough finish or hand finishing for accuracy the lathe is fair, the mill head is not rigid enough to hold accurate settings, My only improvement was change reversing switch to a Dayton Drum switch

[@marceltimmers1290]

Hi mate. Well at least you will have all the good equipment, and knowledge to put on a good machine when the time comes to make this into a Chinese ashtray, or boat anchor. Marcel.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Marcel Timmers Since I am mostly repairing Chinese tools and equipment it seems appropriate. Maybe when the Olde Timers stop trolling the used machine markets and buying up 3 or 4 name-brand machines each that they'll never use, driving up the price and lowering availability - I might be able to get my hands on one. It bites my ass when I see another KZbinr buying their 6th lathe for $200 and restoring it to sell for $2000 - removing the opportunity for a future machinist get a reasonably priced machine to rebuild for themselves. When I get the time to look all I find are "restored to mint condition" machines and the left over carcasses that they raped all the usable parts from.

[@marceltimmers1290]

Eddie the Grouch I hear you. Perhaps you are not in the right area for machines either. you can always do a shout out to your audience, Keith Rucker does that some times. you never know what falls out of the woodwork. Or contact the other creators, if you have not all ready done that.

[@garretttuck8824]

Your the man.

[@konasan]

That was fun. I just inherited a Smithy and have been working it over and learning about it. I suspect I'll be watching all your videos. I don't see you posting much these days, but if you happen to see this comment I have a new guy question: what oil do you use in the gear box? Thanks.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Oh dear...Normally I'd recommend a 30w ND oil (same as for an air compressor). However, it may behoove you to check the manual in case they made improvements to your model. In fact, it was only when I needed to re-align the gears that I found out how poorly the oil system works in my machine and I highly urge you to pull off the cover and observe what yours does. For example, my machine doesn't have a pump and only (cough) circulates the oil by gear transfer when the gearbox is engaged and NOT in neutral where I usually keep it as I mostly do manual or (another cough) CNC. Even then the spindle bearings get very little lubrication and the bevel gears for the mill head doesn't get any. The bevels growled like a bear until I greased them (upper bevel is phenolic) and I grease both the spindle and quill bearings with a synthetic grade 00. Your machine may be newer and the oiling scheme may have been better implemented but you should verify that with your own eyes. A small squirt of Lucas will aid oil cling and gear climbing if circulation appears weak. Also, the table oiler ports and channels are equally poor and our narrow tables (cross slide) are susceptible to 'cocking' and binding if not adjusted just right and well oiled so I don't totally rely on them. I use Way Oil in my oil can and occasionally squirt some on the ways and dip a finger to apply some along the top, front, and rear way surfaces for good measure and the lead screw gets a squirt, too. Oil is cheap insurance. Still, when you get the bugs worked out and a feel for the machine you will get many hours (and colorful metaphors) worth of tinkering pleasure. Good luck and holler if you need anything.

[@konasan]

@@EddieTheGrouch Hah! Not a newer unit. It's an original AT-300 sold in The Dalles, Oregon about 1992. Very low hours. The idler pulley didn't have a bearing (steel bushing) and had seized. I just replaced it with a bearing and am looking at doing your motor relocation. I opened the gear box and it looks ok but it is splash when engaged as you indicated. That sure was worth knowing. I wonder if adding a little electric oil pump might be time well spent.

[@johnzarollin2749]

Hey hi, I have an extra 27 tooth gear if you can use it. I finally resolved the dang ratio problem. The decal inside the gear box cover had been printed with too much ink which ran. After 2-3 days of doing gear ratio math and pulling what few strands of hair are left on my hollow head I took a magnifier to the decal lettering and LOW-AND-BEHOLD the damn 38 tooth listed in the A/B X C/D ratio for 20 TPI was in fact a 36 tooth gear which I have. So pissed at the time wasted but did get to the bottom of the problem. Any way this is but one example of why I keep most of my guns under lock and key. -just kidding of course for the GOVERNMENT'S GD record.!!If there are any other gears you may need let me know as I have a few extras, i.e., 60T, 27, and others which I'd be happy to just give them to you.

[@virtualmarc2383]

Fantastic videos, thank you. I have a rebranded Taiwanese version of The Clarke 500 almost identical to your Smithy. I'm just about ready to put a Servo motor on the lead screw.

[@olafborowski2385]

Hi Eddie, picked up a CB1220 not too long ago. Love the machine, great for just fixing thing and tinkering around. Question: recently did some milling operation and now the gears won't engage in the clutch any longer. Lathe works, but cannot engage mill head. Have you taken the clutch apart before? Parts drawing are terrible and can't really figure out where to start. Some of the troubleshooting hints point toward "bevel gear broken or out of adjustment". Where is that bevel gear? Thanks and keep up the good work. Love your channel.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Greetings Olaf, the banana you were milling must have been frozen! On the backside of the head stock above the motor is a hole to let the Demons out (or to add some grease if the mill is noisy). I think you'll need a 10mm hex key to remove the plug. If you look in there you should see the bevel gears meshing. If they both turn when you spin the input then the mill shaft key may have sheared or fell out if you lifted the head too high. Let me know what you find and we'll go from there.

[@craigleemehan]

Very impressive updates to your machine. Where did you learn how to update your machine into a cnc?

[@charlesbowen3944]

I have a smithy 6 months later I purchased a 60 year old South bend what difference

[@michaelhale4041]

Eddie could you show me a close-up on you cross slide. I'm trying to work out a cross slide lock like you have. I like your idea and would like to use it on mine if you don't mind

[@beemerkon]

Old stock or ordered from the same company in China that makes it and you can get it from cheaper

[@robertmccully2792]

Dam your good.. There is one other guy on YT in the same league. But he has loads of cash. But he is good, forget his handle.

[@michaelhale4041]

Mr. Grouchy lol. The cross slide lock you have any way to send me pics of it. I have wanted a way to do something like that. When I have a vice instead as you know it's hard to get into it. I seen your and said hay he has a nice idea.

[@robertmccully2792]

Need to add a stepper motor on the swing of drill/mill/ to help find any angel?

[@johnzarollin2749]

Hey howdy again.Need some technical info on thread gear changing. Setup my cb1220 as per the manual for 20 TPI on a 1- 3/16" 6061 aluminum rod. What I got was 22 TPI. Checked gears 3 times. The Smithy CB 1220 manual calls for 50/38 x 56/42 tooth (A/B,C/D gears). What do you think is wrong? According to the math the products you get doing the A/B x C/D for a 20TPI setup is 1.7543 and for the 22 TPI. setup you get 2.1885. To get courser threads the feed screw has to go faster in relation to the spindle speed. So I need a ratio of gears to speed up (coarser TPI) the to give me a coarser (20) tpi. yes??

[@EddieTheGrouch]

+john buster LOL I've never threaded via the gears as I didn't get any. I just finished a gear cutter arbor so I can make them soon. My CB1220 is the version before the Midas and is a metric machine that needs a 27 gear to do imperial threads. In fact, the gear combo you gave is not listed on mine. I would need 50/36 x 56/27 to get 40/20 TPI. 22TPI lists as 60/33 x 50/27 My normal turning gears are 30/60 x 27/42 for a feed rate of 0.075"/0.15". Does that help any?

[@johnzarollin2749]

hey, howdy I know this is dated but FYI the whole darn gear problem was due to a smudged print on the gear ratios label on the inside of the gearbox. Under close inspection with a magnifying glass and talking to the Midas folks the error showed up. Jeez what a bunch of BS for a smudge. Anyway got it resolved.

[@RandallMoore1955]

That's just alright.

[@BisonWorkshop]

where did you ger the lazer cross hair. i wanna put one on my new mill i just posted

[@EddieTheGrouch]

+Bison Workshop On eBay for about $7. My seller is gone so here's a link to the same thing: www.ebay.com/itm/New-Focusable-5mW-650nm-Red-Cross-Line-Laser-Module-Focus-Adjustable-laser-Head/171875188146?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35694%26meid%3D02cf1591b91b46b2a4e96ffa76493f7c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D130890188940

[@wildbill6976]

you've got so many mods, I don't think you can call it a smithy anymore...lol maybe you should patent it and sell your own machines... =P

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Ack! Perish the thought. The ChiComs will copy it and since it's already a copy - it would become an even poorer copy of a poor copy like a 3rd generation cassette mix tape made from old K-tel 8-tracks.

[@daki222000]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqW5fHmdqNN2qa8 from min. 7.00 another way of using a laser to put your mill head in position.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Flip de boer Thanks, Flip! It was worth the click just to see Marc in a wig :)

[@BisonWorkshop]

you dont want to do some trading for your spare dv controler do you? im getting a treadmill today and im not understanding why you cant use the treadmill controler speed adjust an just install it as if it still thinks a man is on the belt only the chuck would be turning. if you know what i mean. like the other guy with the combo machine like yours.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

+Bison Workshop You CAN use the treadmill controller. How you will like it depends on which controller you get and how robust, adjustable, or hackable it is. Treadmills are made to start slow and ramp up to speed then ramp back down to stop as a safety feature. You also can't leave them set at a certain speed then turn them on - you have to start at 0 then dial in the speed you want. Most don't have good speed stability and the RPM sensor is for the display readout only (the display board and the speed controller are usually separate and don't talk to each other). Treadmills don't reverse. You can reverse the motor leads using a DPDT switch BUT you have to spin the knob to 0, flip your reverse switch, then ramp back up to speed. Treadmill controllers like the MC-60 and newer can be hacked to allow faster starts and maybe even set a speed to start at but will still lack the control, braking, stability, and robustness of an industrial controller. Mine was an MC-30 - pretty much the bottom of the drawer - lightweight and no easy mods for it so when I found the KB unit with all bells and whistles for a good price it was a 'no brainer' for me. With all that said (and some stuff I left out) by all means use the controller you have to get you up and running. The abilities of a DC motor like great torque, lower speeds for threading, and variable speed to reduce chatter and fewer belt position changes make it a great mod. If you upgrade to a better controller in the future it will still use a knob and reverse switch so your controls will stay the same. -Grouchy

[@EddieTheGrouch]

+Bison Workshop BTW: Who is the other combo user?

[@BisonWorkshop]

+Eddie the Grouch i was watching this guy and noticed you had made a comment on his. gr8hypothesis and that how i was thinking of doing mine also. i have alot of questions and would love to give you my number and talk some with you on this. i never ever run in reverse or thread. not when theres tap and dies lol.

[@BisonWorkshop]

+Bison Workshop btw, did you see my new combo

[@EddieTheGrouch]

Nope. I checked your channel and G+ pages and didn't see anything. Do you have an alternate channel? You can shoot me your # if you like. I don't mind confusing people :)

[@nowayjerk8064]

i think its keep your cheese in rice

[@liftmech9988]

Sirs I would like to warn potential buyers of the smithy brand of machine after I got my machine not knowing how a lathe is suppose to run I could never get a smooth finish on my turnings when I finally discovered that clutch mechanisms was wrapped and would vibrate the machine I tried to get Smithy service to help me repair it it is now 1 year later after 15 e-mails and several calls that no one will answer or call you back I have started to warn people of the way this company treats its customers after they already have gotten all the money they think there going to get out of you so if you are planning to purchase one of these machines all I can say is DON'T DO IT

[@EddieTheGrouch]

That is a shame. While the products were crap - the customer service was fine. Since they were dependent on a China company for parts and products, after the world went into the toilet during the Covid fiasco, they may no longer be supported by the 'mothership'. I can try helping if you need it. These machines need a little tweaking and tightening to get some good results.

[@liftmech9988]

@@EddieTheGrouch Thanks for the invite I am trying to order the parts on my own dime now but no telling what response I might get I guess I can add the 200.00 for the parts as a lessen on who to trust