Sonic Heroes Is Actually a Puzzle Game (And How To Play It) ft.

[@chaomix]

Sonic Heroes tends to get mixed reviews. What do YOU think of it though? Have you ever tried thinking of it as a puzzle game? Also, HUGE thank you to Magic Spoon for sponsoring this video! Use my code chaomix5 to get $5 off your delicious, healthy Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: magicspoon.thld.co/chaomix5_0122

[@GuysWithGlasses-is6ku]

It seems like a pretty nice game.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

It one of the Best Sonic games Ever. Actually have to use my 🧠 to figure things out. But that was the problem. People don’t like using their 🧠.They are so use to going in a Straight line and when they couldn’t figure something out they call it a Trash game because obviously it not your fault your losing it the game fault. “Oh the game didn’t tell me how to defeat this enemy”. 😩THAN FIGURE IT OUT AND SOLVE IT!

[@cumcockproductions6433]

Better than the sa games

[@bagelgod946]

I really wanted to enjoy it. I love the music, the style of the levels, and the characters it introduced/re-introduced. But… those damn controls man they were so infuriating and slippery… and don’t even get me started on the special stages Worst in the series to play and get to imo

[@Ecl1pse_15]

@@KavinCatastrophe fr

[@LSMark]

I could never trust someone who uses a mod to remove the shininess on the characters smh

[@chaomix]

My finger slipped

[@LuluFluffs]

Only true Sonic Heroes fans play the game the original way it made.

[@castform7]

I had a feeling the guy who always jokes about Sonis Heroes being the peak of Izuka's career would be here.

[@inendlesspain4724]

@@LuluFluffs Your grammar doesn't make any sense.

[@premydaremy]

I swear lol

[@AceCardGaming]

Was an absolute pleasure dude. Thoroughly enjoyed myself and, I’ll take any excuse to chat some Heroes!

[@Ilikespagetti]

ur vids are awesome

[@AceCardGaming]

@@Ilikespagetti Thanks so much! Really glad you enjoy my content.

[@ledkicker2392]

As someone who had 100% completed the game, I really appreciate the way it rewards mastery and, to some degree, exploration. So, while repetitive playthroughs with all the teams may be tedious, you begin to enjoy how naturally your gameplay becomes more smooth and flowing. Hopefully on Frontiers, with open world and promised fighting variability, Sega develops this aspect instead of *forcing* us through 1-D corridors

[@mysteriouscreature1093]

I find it hilarious that Sonic Heroes is one of the most hand holding games in the series, and people still play it wrong.

[@RosheenQuynh]

Big oof... I've almost beat the game too and I still can't beat it cuz I am bad at Sonic games 🙃

[@BrandonScott-mi5pz]

EXCELLENT WORK. CHAOMIX SONIC HEROES PUZZLE GAME SERIOUSLY,

[@badiiin]

People who need a video tutorial to understand how to play Sonic Heroes, are the reason shampoo have instructions on their package. 💀💀🤣🤣

[@premydaremy]

Me reading the title knowing I hate puzzle games but love Sonic Heroes more than any game in the world

[@sprite.r]

You are just one lucky guy!

[@MadouSawada]

This is my favourite Sonic Game of all time. I've replayed it recently and loved it even more.

[@ZobirisMage]

2 more tips for people having a rough time: -Use flight characters on rails if you feel uncomfortable rail switching -You can only homing attack enemies if you're above them

[@Pownchao]

I can't really think of another game like Sonic Heroes. I can see an indie studio that grew up with this game, creating something similar in the future. I feel that it'd receive a more positive reception because it wouldn't be held back by what people expect from Sonic, and just accept it as a new and fun puzzle platformer. Regardless, I would love to see this style of gameplay come back in the future. Thanks for making this video to help let others see and appreciate this game for what it truly is.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

The Crystal Chronicles series of Final Fantasy is comparable, though more heavily on the JRPG side. Not THAT heavily though, especially considering in Japan RPGs are s popualr that 'jrpg mechanic' are treated a bit more honestly, just as 'game mechanics'. The're not put into this bin of 'too complicated, I'm owed a victory jsut for pushing forward and retrying to force myself through". Funnily enough, Heroes and CC were both their respective companies moving towards nintendo, and presumably as such, more towards the western/underage market that would find it DIFFICULT to adjust to added RPG mechanics. Honestly mostly any action-RPG from Japan does some degree of party-control mechanics combined with effective synchro. Adding some mandatory platforming is a quirk of Crystal Chronicles and some others.

[@sonicmeerkat]

"People go into it expecting it to be like the adventure games" This, so many times I've seen people call heroes the true adventure 3 when no, it has a completely different design philosophy to the multiple playstyled story focused adventures.

[@TeamAPS]

I just wanna say I absolutely love this character shading mod.

[@lamelev]

Honestly so true, ever since I learned to actually play Sonic Heroes, it became one of my favorites.

[@thatclipmakerguy9959]

As someone who replayed Sonic Heroes after a long time of not playing the game, I can confirm... this game takes some time to get used to, but once you've gotten it's drift, hot damn it's fun!

[@tyrone2423]

Me on Emulator and my game running between 15 to 60 fps😭😭 Might get the PC version later.

[@tek3576]

@@tyrone2423 why not get it now? It doesnt take that long to set up

[@tyrone2423]

@@tek3576 Already did Done it yesterday.

[@thajocoth]

"When playing a Sonic game, you just want to go fast" - Not me. I like going off the path and exploring... Finding hidden stuff... The big rings in S3&K, for example, were great for this! This is why I don't bother getting newer Sonic games anymore if they use Boost. It prevents exploration and makes the levels pretty forgettable in my opinion. It's no surprise then that I liked Team Chaotix the most in Sonic Heroes, as you need to explore their levels to find the objectives to complete them.

[@iranoutofideasforausernam1703]

Heeey! Someone else who loved Team Chaotix's missions! I started with Adventure 2, and since the levels were so massive and had a power-up each, I just naturally accepted the exploration element and thought that was what the series was about. Heroes and Sonic 2 reinforced this idea. After all, what better use is there for super-speed than having the time to see everything and do everything?

[@thajocoth]

@@iranoutofideasforausernam1703 All of the older games reward you for exploration. Some of them just give you 1-ups, rings, shields, & shortcuts, but some give you more than that. Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic Mania hid giant rings throughout the levels in secret places, each of which gave you a chance to get a Chaos Emerald (or Super Emerald). Sonic 3D Blast hid Tails & Knuckles in secret areas of each stage to, again, give you a chance at getting Chaos Emeralds... Adventure & Adventure 2 had some powerups in the stages, but also had the Knuckles (& Rouge) levels which were all about exploring. Etc... I think it IS a series staple at this point, but that many people simply don't realize this fact. Good reason & ability to explore is something that all the best games in the franchise have. The games that lack this tend to feel hollow to me, like something big is just missing... Like what I'm playing is a more watered down & unfinished version of a Sonic game. So Frontiers looks promising so far! I'm hoping it's good.

[@lpfan4491]

@@thajocoth Basically me too. I mean, I love the boost(If it's done well, screw Colors), but I'd rather have slower gameplay where it's about exploring.(Again, it it's done well. Screw co-)

[@zacknattack]

the best part about team chaotix is that they're actually the most important team in the game every mission (besides the first) directly involves stopping neo metal ocean palace: save the chao; neo metal is attempting to get the biodata of chao grand metropolis: destroy the robots so that neo metal can't use it as a supply center power plant: same as grand metropolis, but specifically about the energy stuff this time casino park: eggman claims it's a "test of luck", but getting enough rings may make entry into bingo highway easier; debatable, though bingo highway: the keys likely unlock the way to rail canyon rail canyon: ...just getting to bullet station... bullet station: destroy a bunch of neo metal's supplies (team dark's post-albatross cutscene implies said supplies are mainly shadow androids) frog forest: honestly, not so sure why it's important not to be detected; maybe so that neo metal doesn't increase security on the chao in lost jungle? lost jungle: again, neo metal is trying to absorb chao biodata hang castle: keys to get into the mystic mansion mystic mansion: torches to get out (fun fact: in shadow the hedgehog, the torches are mentioned to be powering some security system (said torches are much larger, though)) egg fleet: again, i suppose the reason not to be detected is because otherwise security against eggman will be tightened final fortress: get the keys for eggman if it weren't for team chaotix, the other teams would have a slower time getting to the next area (bingo highway, hang castle, mystic mansion) and neo metal would both have better defenses/supplies (grand metropolis, power plant, bullet station) and be able to transform sooner (or maybe be more powerful?) (ocean palace, lost jungle)

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Bingo. "I just want to go fast" is the noob mentality for me. Sonic is BOTH speed AND platforming.

[@myleswelnetz6700]

We all deserve to be able to play as Tails and/or Knuckles more often, NOT just as Sonic while the other two just sit back and talk Sonic’s ear off.

[@bestwitch4414]

Getting a good groove in sonic heroes is one of the best feelings in a sonic game Which makes it my favorite

[@TailsGuy72]

Heroes is a game one must learn. I beat the game in Summer and I *loved* it. Even though I have 10 years of Sonic experience now, Heroes was still a challenge to master.

[@Rupninjatrash]

Loved Sonic Heroes as a child, still love it to this day. I've always played it as a puzzle game, but it was probably because I had never properly played a Sonic game before it! I didn't know people didn't see it as a puzzle game! Great video!

[@AzuretareLPs]

I've heard a lot of people say they liked this as a kid and I can see why - you are more open to learning and understanding things and more patient as a kid. To be impatient and less open is a death sentence for enjoyment for some games.

[@KavinCatastrophe]

5:57 Someone remembers the weird Hate IGN had for Sonic Back in the day.

[@inendlesspain4724]

It's not just IGN, they were just the only ones who went as far as straight up saying what was in the mind of most "professional" critics.

[@lynxfresh5214]

@@inendlesspain4724 At least these days most Sonic fans know to ignore, drown out or mock those so called "professorial" critics and "trustworthy" reviewers (Knowing full well they're just clout chasers or shallow influencers).

[@dashi-musashi351]

17:07 Power characters can’t flip enemies, Sonic just homing attacked it.

[@certifiednobody]

Sonic Heroes' biggest crime is coming right after Sonic Adventure 2. Regardless of what LS Mark claims, it's a big step down, especially in the physics and story. Despite that, it's still a good game and deserves respect.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

It’s too unpolished for me to call it good

[@tyrone2423]

Agreed Sonic Heroes is *MY* favourite 3d Sonic game but after playing SA1 and SA2 its for sure a downgrade.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@Sydney_Angelyt Unpolished? Eh, Heroes is not THAT unpolished.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

@@ChiefMedicPururu I’d compare Heroes to 06 levels of glitches at points

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@Sydney_Angelyt Not even comparable. -_-

[@castform7]

LS Mark and his "friend" Splash Dash: These guys know what's up.

[@WHYvernmaster]

I think you guys are generally right about this game, but even accounting for that, there is some jank in the game. It's not as janky as '06, at least, but I've definitely ended up dying when there was no reason I should have, more than once, lol

[@zacknattack]

Come to think of it, I think the jank might have to do with how it was being developed for XBox, PS2, GC and PC; time they could have spent ironing out the jank was spent on making it multiplatform.

[@WHYvernmaster]

@@zacknattack That would explain it. I will say that despite this complaint, I did have a lot of fun playing it back in the day. I was just never able to get as far as I'd have liked, because of that ^^'

[@jackpijjin4088]

The number of times that the cannons in Bullet Station shot me *well* past the target and lead to me dying, is absolutely frustrating.

[@torid.344]

This explains why Sonic Heroes was always one of my top three Sonic games! I always played it as a puzzle game and platformer, and i think it’s one of the most enjoyable experiences I have had with the Sonic games. I’m looking forward to playing it again soon. Great video as always!!

[@Vmeg17]

Dude this video was great you and Mark both did a great job, and this definitely had me looking at Heroes in a new way. Great video.

[@AceCardGaming]

Thanks dude, glad you enjoyed it!

[@Vmeg17]

@@AceCardGaming ofc man!

[@Hiroku1998]

I will never understand the hate for Heroes from people that didn’t even bother trying to learn how it’s played. That aside, I actually remembered and learnt a thing or two by watching this video. Good stuff.

[@lynxfresh5214]

Heroes is also the best selling 3D Sonic game of all time yet most haters prefer folks to forget that fact lol!

[@lpfan4491]

@@lynxfresh5214 Funfact: Sales usually come before the media is consumed. There are a good number of things that aren't good and sold better than the stuff that is of quality.

[@TinyBoxStudiosYT]

@@lpfan4491 like example Sonic Forces

[@gachaevil1773]

@@TinyBoxStudiosYTbeing honest it’s nostalgic game for me since it was my first 3D sonic game but I have not played it in awhile so who knows

[@TinyBoxStudiosYT]

@@gachaevil1773 I can completely understand where you coming, I mean I used to love Sonic Lost World for a while until I play it again and realized it was bad. If you like Sonic Forces despite its major flaws, then more power to you.

[@platformingames2967]

It’s more of an action RPG then a puzzle game

[@zeez7935]

I think this is the Sonic game with the most potential for a sequel or a remaster, there's something really charming about Sonic Heroes

[@franklinbrooksstoppedcomme3267]

Honestly shocking how something like Heroes didn't get one, yet Riders and Secret Rings happened and did. Makes ya wonder what happened in the team or company to have that be... Sure, racing games are easy to develop, but Riders was (and still is, IMO) one of the most ambitious I've ever seen (from the likes of SEGA, anyway). And the disaster that was the final product of Secret Rings I wouldn't suggest more than a comic book sequel to if I were a shareholder during the time of its release.

[@lpfan4491]

@@franklinbrooksstoppedcomme3267 Black Knight is as much of a sequel to Secret Rings as Generations is to Unleashed. Actually, possible less so.

[@franklinbrooksstoppedcomme3267]

@@lpfan4491 Can't deny that. Its really only a successor in terms of being in the "Sonic Storybook" sub-series. But quite curious it is the team system has yet to be revisited in the mainline series, though. Sure, the formation element was incorporated in Riders, and you could say they got close with Forces and TSR's team mechanics, but even still, not yet have they gotten back there exactly for the mainline. How I'd love if it could happen though, even if not many others would.

[@NeonLightsYT1]

This is my favourite Sonic game. It was my childhood game, and I will forever cherish it.

[@Nathan-rb3qp]

This was my first 3D Sonic game and I still love it.

[@sonicthefox2478]

I have a few more tips for newcomers to the game. 1. If you are a speed character and see a ledge coming up fast, jump and hold back. Jumping gives you more movement control than ground movement. This works with all types, but you'll need to know this in later levels since speed types can be slippery due to the momentum. 2. If you see a narrow bride pathway, fly type is the go to. It gives you a chance to correct a mistake and even give you more ground movement control. 3. In the jungle levels there are vines they want you to swing on. You have to press the jump button to swing off it. Make sure you you only tap jump close to the peak of the vine's swing, else you'll fall to your death. 4. Team boss battles can be dispatched quickly via a good speed type tornado attack or quick thundershoots. It just takes practice. 5. Using any action of any kind builds up team blast meter, regardless if it hits the enemy or not. Use this how you will. 6. Team Rose is the best to collect Chaos Emeralds with. 7. Special Stages are tough. Don't let yourself get stuck on the roof or sides, don't ever jump and try to keep moving. Just holding forward will get you the emerald eventually, though using your boost from orbs is the better option. Holding the boost is good, but somtimes just mashing it works so that way you don't waste the meter. Through trial and error, you'll finish them just fine, just remain vigellant. That's all. Hope this helps.

[@1cheezyboi31]

"Chaomix what the heck are you talking about man, that's like the opposite of a Sonic game?" So was the Werehog form for Unleashed but I still loved the heck out of it!

[@QwerpOS]

20:54 Well, I mean. You could just hold the x button and tilt the analogue stick in the direction of the rail to gain extra speed. It works the same way it does in Adventure 2, with the added bonus of being able to press the X button to accelerate on the rail.

[@tyrone2423]

Ayo I played had this game on PS2 as a kid. When u talking about the x button I thought "But ain't that the jump button. Square is speed up." Then my dumb ass realized u could be talking about GameCube and Xbox controls. 😅😅

[@anthonyjefferson6421]

This is my first sonic game so I have a special attachment to this game. As a kid I had the hardest time beating eggman but as I got older I learned ways of defeating bosses. Both as a kid and adult, I really love replaying this game it never gets old

[@Pownchao]

This is absolutely how I've always viewed this game! I have appreciated this game even more on extra playthroughs through these lens. Edit: I should also add that I love how the trio mechanic actually added some depth to combat. It can be fun optimizing routes and how to take down certain enemies.

[@ArtSagGut]

"One of the hardest Sonic games." Probably the only game I 100% beyond the Genesis era. Sonic Heroes was my first 3D game overall, so I actually got the perspective of this game to be the standard of any 3D Sonic game out there, which was quite heartbreaking. I can't enjoy and finish the Adventure games because of this. I grew up made to enjoy Heroes alone, and now I understand why. :D Needless to say, it is easy my most favorite game across the board by charm alone, and kudos for identifying Team Chaotix as the hardest campaign OMG Final Fortress side mission is a deceiving son of a Chao to ace!

[@pixelistoldaccount5036]

I actually did this once I got to Grand Metropolis in my first playthrough about a year ago. Surprised so many people try to brute force through the game, but I'm glad this video will help people have a better experience.

[@parsapouyafar1047]

I haven't played heroes because i thought it seemed too complicated but now thanks to this video think ill give it a try when ever i can get my hands on something i can play it on

[@Color_Splsh]

I'll never forget when I discovered a huge skip in lost jungle by going invisible as Espio near the start to avoid the black frog.

[@NinjaKIngAce]

I believe the technical term is "Puzzle Platformer," and I'd argue that Amy's levels, from Sonic Adventure, are the same deal, although obviously not as complex. I'd also argue that Team Chaotix should be your 2nd playthrough. Yes, they're more puzzle focused, but nothing they ask you to do is particularly hard. Plus, their Team Blast rewards a Ring Box for every enemy you kill with it, so it's great for farming lives. Lives you're going to need, for the later levels of Team Sonic and Team Dark

[@squid24736]

I've been playing this game for nearly 20 years and I've never seen anyone actually list out wha each level up does for each character formation, nor did I realize that power cores happen as predictably as every 5 enemies so you can manipulate it to your advantage. brb gonna plow through the game again as level 3 tails.

[@belrumwade4733]

Some more tips that might help without going too in-depth into the mechanics: -"Tornado Double Jumps" requiere to hold the jump button through out the animation (also only Sonic and Shadow have this feature in their Tornado attacks). -To compensate, Big and Vector's bounces can not only give more height so you can start flying at a higher altitude (Flight character), but you can also use this for a quick dash for the Speed Character, you just need to change to the desired character before the power character hits the ground (don't try this in terrain that's considered an object, it won't work that way). -Spinning, while lacking in offense (unless you got your teammates behind you or you use a Rocket Accel), is very useful for turning at higher speeds and to get them when colliding with a dash panel (Sonic and Shadow have the option to use their kicks into them as well). -Mashing is not always the better option, mainly when it comes to getting speed (you can just hold the action button on the rails when you are at top speed and remember that in some cases is better to not spam flying kicks to go at full speed). -When is mashing helpful? Short-range power characters (specially Knuckles) against grounded enemies with big health bars, you just have to remember that these ground attacks seem to have a lock-on akin to the other aiming moves so just know what you're doing with the left stick. -Gliding can maintain high speeds which can help for crossing horizontal gaps (in the PC version they're more broken, but not going to talk about something I don't have knowledge on).

[@lynxfresh5214]

Heroes the most important game in the Sonic franchise that Sega wants you to forget about despite referencing it at almost every opportunity in the side content (Comics, Spin-off games, Mobile games, etc). I guess Sega having contradictory opinions towards Heroes is fitting lol!

[@nileriver216]

19:52 Wait... Is that? No way, I can't believe this! I can't believe The Egg Carrier from Sonic Adventure 1 is here and referenced in Sonic Heroes! I never knew that! That's so cool!

[@justcallmexen]

It is nice to hear someone discuss the system of Heroes in a positive way, and bring up the many changes of leveling up in a stage, some like the flying type additions I didn't even realize, I know that at 1 or 2, speed types have the tornado effect on their team boost, so they can flip enemies on the ground or apply updrafts on poles without jumping first, and I am not fully convinced that knuckles flipped that enemy at level 3 and it wasn't an auto attack from Sonic (he and Tails throw themselves at foes automatically in power form and both knuckles and Sonic were max level at the time). The team fights have a rock paper scissors feel to them, flying snipes power from outside their reach in the air, speed can dodge and close in on flying before they can fight with slower attacks, and power has the wide range to wall off speed types when they want to close in and attack with faster fireballs. I could talk so long about this game, but I only have it on PS2, what are you playing it on in here?

[@SilverSpireZ]

The main turnoff with Heroes for me is the god-awful slippery physics. I like most everything else about it, but the slipperiness just makes the game nearly unplayable for me. It’s a shame…

[@TailsGuy72]

Here's a thought, Switch to Knuckles or Tails for more control :\ Sonic isn't built for slower, more precise control.

[@tyrone2423]

@@TailsGuy72 yeah I used that for 'drifting'

[@ExplodingDuckBrigade]

This actually made me look at the game in a different light. Of course as a kid I really loved this game haha!

[@HedgehogY2K]

16:17 Especially when dying once immediately costs you your S rank forcing you to start over before you lose a life, just to come back to a checkpoint you never even wanted when you actually wanted to start over, costing you a 2nd life for go... This is why I'm infinitely great to ChaosX for preventing that in P06 so you can pause while you're dying. Every OFFICIAL Sonic game forces almost guess if you're gonna die at that moment and quick time event your pause BEFORE you die so you don't lose a 2nd life when trying to restart.

[@AlinaAniretake]

11:55 I SEE THE EGG CARRIER!

[@jackpijjin4088]

Holy shit!

[@reene_the_mess]

i tried out the game since i was convinced by you, it is definitely a good game, it is definitely very rewarding if you use the right character type, like the satisfaction of using the correct one in those boss fights where you fight a bunch of bots and you just breeze through them, very good indeed

[@SilentSlaine]

Sonic and Shadow have the best running animations to me in this game.

[@mistersp3753]

Flight Lv. 3 was my go-to in Heroes.

[@b_e_p_i_s_m_a_n6212]

It didn't click for me that Sonic Heroes is nearly 20 years old until you brought it up wtf

[@YourUncleBenis]

Additional tip: If you play the PC version, take the time to set up Reloaded II and all of its associated mods. And get a Gamecube or Gamecube style controller for it. That's the optimal controller for this game, and the thought of playing it on anything else makes me wanna hurl.

[@YTDani75]

I play on keyboard cause I don't have a controller I can use on my PC. Lol

[@CherryPop111-l4k]

I’m suprised people didn’t know how sonic heroes worked but then again sonic heroes was one of the first games i played as a kid so i guess I didn’t have that sonic formula in my head

[@franklinbrooksstoppedcomme3267]

You sir have finally said something I've wanted to do an essay on for the past decade of life to explain to people why this game is such a sleeper hit, and for that, you've earned my like, my sub, and most importantly, my gratitude for you going outta your way for accomplishing this undertaking. Also, you saying "Peace" at the end... Fellow Cobanermite? If so, I tip my Collector's Edition checkerboard brim Classic Sonic snapback to you. I hope that a gathering of fans for this game out there will one day invest in the cash for a commissioned Hang Time Twitch stream for the redemption of this game, beginning with this video you've done. Maybe then the deserved affection for this one will finally come. Also, bonus points for other folks out there who listened to this vid while playing a puzzle game like I did. ;)

[@hellolarro]

This was one of my fave sonic games growing up, if not my top fave, so it's really cool watching this vid! Even learning some new things! It just makes me want to play the game again haha. Great job to the both of ya! :)

[@SonicStation]

I find it really ironic to call this game a puzzle game as there existed a promotional Flash Game called Sonic Heroes Puzzle by SEGA to promote Sonic Heroes 😅 Excellent video as usual!

[@zacknattack]

Is that the one where an ad for it had Sonic beating up (I think) Shadow, Big and Cream?

[@PeterLawrenceYT]

Rocket Accel, even with 0 level ups, has the same properties as the Tornado Jump for removing shields and flipping tortoises. As they fly in the air, a good combo ender is in flight formation and to boost upward into them. Sonic Heroes has surprisingly really fun combat for a 3D platformer.

[@annietat]

Sonic heros was my first sonic game I played and I can say for a fact that I did try to brute force it even though at that point I never played a sonic game that wasn't a collection.

[@aarroncannon1590]

Makes me wonder if another one of my favorite childhood games, Ed, Edd 'n Eddy: The Mis-Edventures, might be somewhat of a puzzle game as well due to how similarly both games are meant to be played...

[@EmmyMimimi]

As someone who's always loved the game and speedruns it now, I see how so many people play the game incorrectly and had considered making my own video on it before. I never got around to it and am so glad this popped up in my recommended. Something else I want to note about complaints of levels being long and how there's so much combat though. SO much combat in this game is optional. I'll see people complain about this but they're going out of their way to slowly kill every enemy like it's a Team Chaotix mission when you can just speed right on past them if you want. You can choose to eliminate so much combat if you want and cut down level times (for example, I'd say 90% of the enemies shown being killed in this video are optional to kill even without speedrun strategies). I also wanna list what the levels up do since there was some false information here (I've been told a wiki says some of that info, the wiki is wrong) Speed: Level 1 - Homing attack deals 2 damage. Level 2 - Homing attack deals 3 damage. Level 3 - Homing attack gains wind properties. There is NO speed or acceleration buff gained from leveling up. Flight: Level 1 - Thunder Shoot can target multiple enemies. Level 2 - Thunder Shoot deals 3 damage. Level 3 - Thunder shoot now attracts rings. There is NO flight meter or flight buffs gained from leveling up. Power: Level 1 - Provides a combo finisher as a third attack. Level 2/3 - Buffs the combo finisher (character dependent). There is NO basic attack buffs gained from leveling up. Level 2 is your speed and flight character power spike since level 3s don't provide any benefit to combat for them aside from quicker shield disarms for the speed character. For power, Big is already basically full power at level 1, Knuckles is at level 2, then Omega and Vector are at level 3. I hope more people play this game properly now!

[@SHMOUSEY86]

I like how the tutorial section started with Sea Gate as it's music. Nice little piece of attention to detail.

[@sonicthehedgehog1fan]

If you're looking to get all A ranks then I'd reccomend leveling up your speed character first, the flight and then the power character. The best formation is a leveled up speed character because they're the most powerful and convenient formation to go through the stage with. They can destroy most enemies with no problem while flight formation is for those above the speed characters height. I've not found to much of a need for power formation because a lot of the time if I'm in a room with lots of enemies I use the team blast glitch and activate it because it's easy to do. I find it's best not to do the tornado hop on breakable objects since those give you points or at least I think. I also haven't found the need to constantly switch formations on rails to get top speed because more often then not it's more easy to just hold the grind button and balance when the rail turns. Reminder, this is coming from a person who got all A ranks on this game

[@ledetbrothers9210]

This made me realize that Sonic Forces could have been an excellent successor to Sonic Heroes with its Tag-Team gameplay style. 😞

[@lpfan4491]

I tried it multiple times, could not get into it. Then decided to go grab the mod that improves the physics and that was enough to turn my "Can't even beat stage 1" to "I beat the game". Did I enjoy it? Well, it was certainly a game, that much is true. Yeah, I didn't really feel it. I'd actually rather play Sonic Colors and I'd rather play nothing than play that game.

[@BRANMiiNO_Animations]

My guy really made a 25 minute tutorial of the game because people just wanted to hold forward.

[@gamerlunayt]

Wow! I never really saw Sonic Heroes as a puzzle game before, but now I’m inspired to play Heroes again, with the mindset of it being a puzzle game!

[@sheriefwoodard8686]

Jesus this game is colorful I love it. I really hope we get a mix up of adventure style and heroes one day even if there’s boost like the Sonic World concept but realistically less characters

[@mistersp3753]

Team Dark is easily the hardest, and at times is downright unforgiving. That laser section just before the end of Final Fortress comes to mind. This difficulty is balanced out every so slightly by their Team Blast: Chaos Control, which is easily the best in the game.

[@ledkicker2392]

Team Rose blast is OP: +1 level up to each, invisibility, shield and speed boost

[@lpfan4491]

Every teamblast besides Team Sonic's is good for its own reasons.

[@mistersp3753]

@@ledkicker2392 It's pretty good, but I still prefer Team Dark's because you can chain a couple in a row with enough enemies around, which is going to happen much more with Team Dark. I guess Team Rose's Blast is objectively better, but I still prefer Team Dark.

[@ledkicker2392]

@@mistersp3753 chain couple in a row, that's Chaotix not Dark, it gives you rings for destroyed robots and makes Robot Storm easy

[@Racecar564]

I've not played Heroes in awhile, but I really think you hit the mark with this! Makes a lot of sense to me to consider it like a puzzle game. I mainly remember having issues with the slippery controls in the later levels, but I think I'm gonna have to give it another go again with this renewed perspective and see what that does.

[@Captain1455]

This makes me want to replay Heros again and 100% it

[@MistaBrandoVA]

Heroes was the first Sonic game I personally got to own as a kid, one of my most played PS2 games. I will say tho sometimes the controls were slippery, sliding off ramps and grinding segments in certain scripted events wouldn't always work. Regardless it's still a solid game, I would love to see a new game tackle this playstyle again! It's what introduced me to my favorite Sonic characters, Team Chaotix!

[@franklinbrooksstoppedcomme3267]

Same story here, and same sentiment as well.

[@ShanyaTC]

I do agree with the main thought of this video, i just never called it puzzle. It literally named sonic heroes and i thought it obvious you should use all of them heroes for the advantage. I was more shocked that if this video exist, then people are not thinking the same... I thought main thing that why people dislike this game is because level consume 10 minutes and basically consist of the same (or alike) route twice

[@gordon3002]

I’m becoming insane trying to keep that damn key for the special stage !

[@PKNproductions]

TLDR of this video: if you think this game is too tedious, you're probably just not good at playing it lol I mean, its an interesting experiment. I think the idea of punishing the player for failing by just making things more tedious is, on paper, better design than just making you die and start over for failing, which is also tedious AND repetitive. But it has the unfortunate side effect of just making some people not realize the problem is that they failed a puzzle, so instead of thinking "oh I died, I need to play better" they instead think "wow, this part of the stage has so many enemies I have to get through. They need to design stages better" I even suspect that reviewers not understanding this aspect of the game contributed to Sonic Team deciding to make the stages much more linear, with fewer branching paths and fewer consequences for poor play in later games.

[@Luigicat11]

The problem with that is that "It's not poorly designed, you're just bad." is a very hard pill to swallow, whether it's actually true or not. There's a reason that kind of take has achieved meme status in some circles (such as when discussing overcharted FNF mods). People don't like to be blamed for having a bad time, especially when it's not made clear it's their own fault.

[@joshmeche1320]

This is my game. Don't sleep on the fly type characters, I practically use them probably 50% of the time, lol. For character battles, just use the fly type character to thundershoot everyone off the stage.

[@Fungiarts]

I am stuck in final Fortress with team sonic and hopefully these tips will help me to get through it because I personally hate that stage as a few others so my thoughts on the game are that it's just okay and to frustrating to play but I will give it another chance definitely.

[@ledkicker2392]

If you want to play it safe, you can always hover above the lasers in flight formation With laser-shooting enemies which can block, better annihilate them while they're shooting the laser Save team blast for the big helmeted enemies

[@ScutoidStudios]

The real puzzle game is finding out that this is a sponsored video before the view counter ticks up.

[@rabiahbosriali4218]

Hell yeah! A Sonic Heroes discussion video that validates my enjoyment of the game?! Sign me up!

[@meowcat001]

Sonic heroes was the first Sonic game i ever played and i still love it to this day

[@constantinomusik1]

That egg carrier cameo at egg fleet got me excited about mods again, for replay purposes of course hehe

[@hakeemallen9105]

This game started it all for me so I’m glad to see you analyze it🧬

[@TheAdventuresofRussell]

I have never been able to finish Sonic Heroes, but this advice has helped me get further into the final Sonic level and further through the robot storm in Shadow's story in the haunted mansion. I still can't finish them, but I have improved. Maybe 8 years later I can finish it

[@SoberCake]

Sonic heroes is peak video game honestly Just pure fun with a great ost and some of the most breathtaking levels in the franchise Dead simple gameplay with just enough complexity to keep you addicted Plagued only by traitorous collision detection and the necessity to replay the same game three times All solvable issues with a good remake

[@legionzero1307]

an interesting take on this here definetly agree although im one who wasnt put off by this game and actually really enjoyed it my first time round

[@davidclaxton3674]

R.I.P. to anyone that fell through the floor when almost A ranking the hardest levels.

[@naoto.kitty.shirogane]

I honestly never thought that the fact Sonic Heros is a puzzle game wasn't well known o-o

[@Porelorexeus]

I did like the game play of Heros especially the team work and highlighting more of the characters! Most games talk about the power of friendship, but this one does it. The stages can be amazing as well! I love the forests and Eggman's armada! Although I never got those damn Chaos Emeralds! Lol

[@zacknattack]

Apparently the Power character is kinda brokenly fast in the Special Stages

[@AleT118]

In Sonic Heroes you don't want to just run fast. You need to fly and fight fast with the right execution.

[@chewybits3662]

I love seeing Heros getting the love it deserves ❤

[@Rabbitearsblog]

Awesome video! I actually enjoyed playing Sonic Heroes! I found the whole team dynamic so fun! Love how you explain how to play this game and make it more enjoyable! I really enjoyed it!

[@KhaosKontroller]

I'm just gonna quote the mighty Reggie here, to sum up Heroes' puzzles and combat. "If it's not fun, why bother?"

[@lpfan4491]

That's a very big Pog-shot that you just fired.

[@IliasBeekveldt]

23:12 Wow that wall jump is unsatisfying... Anyway, great video!

[@SSand4]

I never got to think of the difficulty of the game itself, since what turned me off of Heroes was the controls themselves. They're complete ass. I ragequit the first level because the characters wouldn't move in anything remotely resembling the correct manner. I actually thought my controller was broken, but the guy at Gamestop was like "No, that's just how Heroes is."

[@yamsicallymagnificent]

I recently just started playing sonic heroes and I found that it was REALLY difficult for me maybe because i was trying to play it like adventure 1 and sonic 3 pure s p e e d now that i'm going to learn how to properly play it and stop punching my computer because i died

[@justasimplenobody2666]

Sonic Heroes would be a piece of cake if the rail collision on certain levels wasn't an absolute nightmare.. I have watched my character's foot and torso clip thru a rail at the start of an Eggman level.. over. And over.. and over....... RIP Team Rose on that one...

[@Easmodx]

So, the gist of it is that Heroes is a game you have to actually play instead of holding down the boost button and ocassionally quickstep. 20 years later we have to be thankful that stages might last more than 90 seconds, with half of them being automated. I blame this on the "Sonic was always bad" crew.

[@WebstersYouTube]

My core issue with Sonic Heroes is that you have to play it on the game's terms. Previous Sonic games were enjoyed on the player's terms. They accounted for speedrunners, explorers, and completionists. I believe that's key to their wide reaching appeal. Heroes is a much more restrictive and frustrating game. The way we're supposed to play it just isn't appealing to me.