Chapter 7: Two pastors react to Tim Alberta's book "The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory"

[@donotRussiamyMerica]

It’s comforting to have found this channel.

[@brianparks440]

I’m just playing catch up on this series on Tim Alberta’s book that I hadn’t heard previously. I really appreciate it.

[@AnaSingz1970]

I’m a lifelong Catholic and appreciate this series of videos and all the scriptural references. James 3 enlightens me in so many ways. Thank you for both of your continued ministry.

[@laurac56]

The last evangelical church that I belonged to back early in Trump’s presidency had a pastor who didn’t preach Trump, but he knew that a good number of the parishioners would have been critical if he spoke what was biblical and disagreed with MAGA, because he couldn’t afford to loose either the people or his position. It was a very uncomfortable situation for a non-MAGA like me.

[@AnnAumann]

So sad to bow to the majority in the congregation instead of to God and the Holy Spirit and God's truth. My church has become smaller but spiritually stronger and more diverse with people who love God's truth. We don't want a pastor preaching words some people want him to say affirming their false or mistaken non-biblical beliefs.

[@ronvandermolen3390]

Irony (or providence): I finished chapter 7 half an hour ago. Thank you for your aggressive pastoral approach.

[@WingraWonder]

Thanks so much for sharing your perspectives, it's always good to witness the great diversity that is Christianity heartfully lived.

[@Hisgrace4me]

Thank you Pat and Dave. The love in man's heart has and continues to grow cold. All those like Bolin, and there are many, are all wolves in sheep's clothing. They need to repent!!

[@Kathy_Sandoval]

I've been enjoying both the book and your takes on it. Thank you for sharing. I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

[@salsan2946]

"Two ticks, no dog"...very apt description!

[@dalearnold4139]

Wow.. Just WOW.. Keep on speaking truth as best you are able brother... My God guide your steps!!!!

[@T-41]

Thanks for another good program.

[@shellyolson4641]

Thanks, Pat and Dave. I so appreciate your insight.

[@onlykarlhenning]

Love your work!

[@chappellroseholt5740]

Good afternoon from the glorious SF Bay Area. Good stuff, guys, keep it going. Blessings.

[@itkirk]

Great on-going series, you two. And great discussion. Keep it up guys!

[@johnnordberg6904]

I'm a little late to the party but enjoying this book discussion series.

[@culturefaithandpolitics]

@johnnordberg6904 Thanks! We never made it all the way through the book because we ran into scheduling issues, but eventually we hope to do more talks together on other subjects.

[@ClassyPlatypus]

​@culturefaithandpolitics I just finished the book and am rewatching these videos. Even if it's separate from this video series, I'd enjoy hearing your and Dave's thoughts on some of the encouraging changes Tim commented on in the later chapters (ministries supporting pastors and such).

[@markavis7232]

Hey Pat. I don't know if you'll see this - I have really been enjoying catching up on your earlier videos. Your thing here about 'being ambivalent about sometimes being an ambivalent preacher' (if I can put it like that) really made me laugh. 30 years ago, when I was trying to teach myself to lecture engineering maths in a UK university, I tried to approach it like that, being pretty unsure myself - and the students *hated* it 🙂 It took me an embarrassingly long time to work out that to build student confidence (which was really one of the biggest 'good things' I could do) I had to act a lot more certain than I was, or the material justified - at least until they felt on safe ground. I always thought there was no way I could ever preach, because that confident style I had to put on would be awful in church, and just the kind of thing I really hated to sit through myself. That feeling may have gone away - I might be too old to feel a call into lay preaching now, I don't know - though on rare occasions I am hit by the sense in church of 'for f*** sake, even I could do better than this'. I don't know if that counts as a call 🙂 Very best wishes from Manchester UK, anyway - I am really enjoying your stuff.

[@architypeone8646]

Most people get into the ministry with good intentions, but being in a position of influence with an audience of people listening intently to everything you have to say can have an affect on the ego and it is easy to fall into believing that you are special and above the average person and even a visionary. A church is also a business, and if you see more people coming through the doors and the collection plate overflowing because your message has become attractive to more radical thinking individuals, it is easy to continue to push the limits of your rhetoric to keep that money rolling in. It becomes a snowball of misinformation and money that just keeps building momentum.

[@andrewzook8648]

Such a great discussion again. Dave, I loved the Scripture you brought to the table, the "Biblical proportions, Jeremiah 5..." Wow is that chilling and prophetic and spot-on descriptive of our moment... Another undercurrent through this episodes discussion but really through the whole series, is the idea of sunk costs and how do we non-Maga Christians deal with that? The heresy of MAGA Christianity is a crushing slave master... the Sunk Costs that so many have put into it has entrapped them so deeply... like that pastor who now has to keep feeding the monster he made in order to keep his 'church' going at the growth/size it is now... I know for me, and I suspect for most of us - the Huge question is how to help our loved ones ensnared to get past the sunk costs... They've invested every fear, anxiety, assumption, prejudice, enthusiasm, Scripture interpretation, hope and above all, Certainty! into this... How does any one of us help them overcome that? And even a lot of fence-sitters, MAGA adjacent have a lot of similar sunk costs in essentially trumpism... they may not like him exactly, but they still have all those sunk costs invested in the GOP... in the main ideology... in its false promises... Lord Jesus help us!

[@culturefaithandpolitics]

Well said - and a big reason Dave and I are doing these discussions is to help us figure out, for ourselves, the best ways to talk with friends and family members. It's not an easy nut to crack.

[@ellebelle8515]

As a 65 year old woman, I am upset but comforted to hear this teaching of what I have been watching happen to so many who claim to be part of the church's 'present political agenda.' I know in my heart it can't be right, but I am not hearing it preached. Those who doubt this evil tend to stay silent, while the others are, as you just said, intoxicated by this false preaching. It truly feels like the last days when so many in the churches fall prey to such false teachings.

[@The_Hallinator]

Thank you so much for doing this series of podcasts with Pastor Dave. I agree with what you are both saying in this entire series. It is an extremely important and timely message. However, it is equally important to consider the dangers (especially to younger generations) of the Social Justice Movement. It would be fascinating to me if you did a similar series on Social Justice and Critical Race Theory. Consider reading and commenting on the book "Fault Lines: The Social Justice Movement and Evangelicalism's Looming Catastrophe." I believe both culture movements are equally as dangerous. Walking and abiding in the 3rd way of Jesus brings his kingdom and his will on earth as it is in heaven.

[@michaeldunigan1067]

What are the consequences when the holy desk is used for unholy purposes?

[@merrylstreak7118]

What a wake up call! It’s like watching a volcano spewing magma (MAGA) in slow motion and knowing the inevitable outcome. Scary stuff!

[@Travesty-qy4hv]

2 Thessalonians 2 "The Great Apostasy"

[@davidclawley5155]

Good to listen to some normal christians...that they still believe is amazing given the a la carte interpretations of some 'god's' word across the US. All so man made but these are two good guys

[@mikelawlor1533]

The problem is $$$ when people are paid and not teaching for free

[@stevepetersen7697]

The question I would have for the MAGA/Q crowd: what do you believe and why do you WANT to believe it?

[@MrsLauraD]

Just listened to chapter 7 of the book. It definitely made me nauseous.

[@witwisniewski2280]

Money corrupts. Jesus told us that you can't serve both money and Him. I don't know how to run a church without it.

[@audreyricci6383]

The love of money is the root of all evil. You need money to pay bills and buy necessities but greed for money rots the soul.

[@Habitual_Liar]

The more I watch this channel the more it confirms my belief that all religion has a negative impact on society. The views of these two gentlemen should be the majority Christian view not the minority.you can’t claim to follow the teachings of Christ but follow a person like trump.

[@onlykarlhenning]

When "pastors" use Trump's weasel-word formulation, "I don't know, but I hear ...."

[@shanewilson2484]

Floodgate or Hellsgate

[@larryhenderson8625]

*Promo sm*

[@karenspears408]

Pat, I've been edified by many of your commentaries, as you've covered the MAGA movement and Christian nationalism. In this podcast on chapter 7 of Alberta's book, however, it seems to me that you and Dave Johnson have entered new territory-- not merely calling out errant teaching and philosophy, but attributing motives to Bill Boland and David Barton. You and Dave allege that these men knowingly deceive Christians for mercenary ends. That's where you lose traction, in my opinion. Only God knows the heart. Your dissertations on where these men depart from biblical Christianity lose some of their impact when you attribute malignant motives to them. You may have grounds to suspect their hearts are evil, but you are mere mortals and can't know that. I'd ask you to be more focused on the content of their preaching and leave condemnation of their presumed sins to God. I really appreciate your perspectives and have been refreshed by your insights into the MAGA movement, with this single exception. Thanks for your work!