Charlotte Bronte’s Jane Eyre as Adele Varens’ Governess-Feminism, Gender Roles, & the Victorian Era

[@DrOctaviaCox]

If you like the work I do, then you can support it here: www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=D8LSKGJP2NL4N Thank you very much indeed for watching.

[@baruskocica4182]

I've always understood Adele's becoming obedient, calm and teachable as a result of kind, loving care from her governess. For me, the message here was that children can really flourish and reach their true potential if they are truly loved and accepted for who they are. Jane Eyre stood up to Mr Rochester when he belittled Adele and expected Jane to leave her when she found out about her background.

[@lalaholland5929]

Yes, I saw Jane's teaching to be a marked contrast to the abuse/being locked up at Gateshead and the brutal, "Christian", poor quality/starvation portions of food/warmth and the abuse - standing on stool - shaming the sinner/walking with placards of sin/beatings.

[@darleehart9782]

As a teacher, I’m not sure if I agree fully with the assessment on how Jane “ironed out” Adele. In the section that talks about curbing and controlling her freaks and whims, to me that sounds like one of the first things you have to teach children which is self control. That doesn’t mean that they are oppressed, just that, for their own safety (physical, mental, and emotional), they can’t give in to every whim they have. How many times have children wanted to touch the glowing hot stove and their parent has had to instruct them on self control because it would be harmful for them. Controlling freaks and whims isn’t just a social thing. It’s how we become self controlled enough to keep ourselves safe and able to work towards our goals and dreams. Teenagers are notorious for having poor self control. And how many times have teens died in car crashes because they couldn’t resist driving faster than they should? What about children with tempers who pushed away friends by being too greedy or two demanding and end up alone and unhappy? Having self-control is essential to obtaining what you want in life. You have to work for what you want and can’t keep getting distracted by momentary pleasures. If one were to follow their momentary whims every day they would end up very unhappy in life. As for the part about Jane encouraging Adele‘s prattle being evidence of conforming to ideals of women’s chitchat… I feel like that’s Jane’s way of teaching Adele self control, but still encouraging her to be herself and express her own opinions. She doesn’t seem to be conforming to the idea that children should be seen and not heard. And yes, women were known to prattle and gossip, but they were also taught to be meek and to not have strong opinions. They should be left pliable so they could be molded into what their fathers and eventual husbands wanted. Jane seems to be encouraging Adele to maintain her personality and express her self in ways that Jane was denied as a child. One of the hardest balances to strike as a teacher is keeping your class quiet enough so that they can concentrate and learn what you need to teach them while also allowing them to develop their personalities and be expressive. It would be way easier to teach a class that was meek and silent the whole time. Lecturing without interruption is easier than group discussions and involving the students in constructive criticism and questioning. Jane not only is encouraging this in Adele, but she actively enjoys this about her student. She gives this is evidence of why they are able to get along well together. I’m not saying all this because I think Jane is a perfect character without faults. She’s obviously not. And I do think that she probably does teach Adele things that she may not agree with so that her student can find tolerable happiness in society. But I don’t think she was oppressing Adele and molding her into something meek and soft. She was equipping her with the tools to both succeed in life and to be true to herself at the same time.

[@cate1657]

I think the idea that Charlotte Bronte was alluding to was that because Adele was a girl child, it was necessary that she learn early-on to control herself against being spontaneous. Had Jane Eyre's charge been a young boy, I don't believe this would've been an issue--he would be in fact encouraged to be rambunctious & free-spirited and follow his whims. And, regardless of sex, the children would've expected to be trained to have self-control.

[@clobberelladoesntreadcomme9920]

@@cate1657 Boy children would have had tutors instead of governesses by the time they reached Adele's age.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

From the first paragraph there are some super important things I notice as a parent. Adelle's tendencies seemed to derive from neglect and then bouts of overindulgence. No one pays attention to her unless she was acting out for attention. Once Jane comes in 1. All of her attention needs are now met therefore the need to act out dissipates naturally 2. No one is going behind Jane's back to undermine her parenting/teaching therefore Jane's structure is never given a reason to be doubted and children do well in structured environments.

[@helenannedawson3694]

I had a similar train of thought on this.. I was a teacher myself, and I know that children often act out in a plea for attention and affection. Jane gives Adele both these things, but she never received them herself from her Aunt Reid - if the aunt had shown her affection, Jane may naturally have begun to conform to her aunt's standards of behaviour, but she may have continued to lash out as a child there because no matter what she did, her behaviour was never rewarded. When Jane goes to school and Helen and Miss Temple show her kindness and reward her behaviour with praise, attention and affection, she accepts her place in the school and works to continue to keep her place in their affections.

[@alexandraprodan92]

I also thought that Adele needed to learn to "human", just as much as a spoiled little boy would need to. I don't think Jane Eyre disciplines her more than strictly necessary for her to grow up into a person that can find their place in society. Structure and limits are needed, exactly so children can live alongside others succesfully later in life. It doesn't need to be a supression of the self, but rather a shaping of the behavior towards being considerate of the needs of others as well as of one's own.

[@margaretinsydney3856]

I agree with all of this. Adele needs to learn to sit down and listen before she can learn anything else. And I love Jane's coolness here: she learned to tolerate being a governess and Adele learned to tolerate having one.

[@haleyspence]

^^ This, my interpretation of the quote about "forgot her little freaks" was more like "she stopped throwing tantrums and we were able to move forward as we ought." and the other one "simplicity, gay prattle, and efforts to please" could easily be, "she liked to talk, and wanted me to like her, and it was hard not to love being with her." It seems like an unfair comparison to hold up "How Jane treats a girl-child" to "How Jane feels about grown women" and call it a contradiction.

[@DarkPriestess1]

Yes, I always assumed this too, that Adele had been neglected and indulged by turns, and acted out in a desperate attempt to get some much needed attention and structure in her life. Actual affection quickly dissipated her "freaks" and she was able to settle happily into calmer behaviour. I remember even as a thirteen year old smiling at Bronte's description of Adele prattling happily, which seems typical behaviour for a well adjusted child.

[@LusiaEyre]

I think Jane didn't even notice that she was acting contradictory to Adele. Despite her childhood freaks, Jane did comform in the end. She became all the quiet, polite and steady things the world wanted her to be. She kept her true self to herself. And she valued peace and quiet in her environment so it makes sense she tried to fix a french wild child singing rude songs to what best suited her. And because she wasn't cruel in her attempts, it didn't bear an outward resemblance to her own treatment.

[@jillkjv3816]

Yes, Jane in the end finds the domestic tranquility she yearned for, after being tossed about by various storms her whole young life. Similar to Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz: "There's no place like home." :) Or the old saying, "Home is where the heart is". Or another old, wise saying: "The heart that opens itself to the world opens itself to sorrow."

[@harringt100]

Right. Jane knew from her own experience that being able to restrain one's impulses (even if the motivations behind them were justifiable) had advantages. You can see from the time she spends back at Gate's Head that her ability to endure and forgive the slights of others is not about people pleasing for its own sake, but it actually empowers her in those relationships, compared to those same relatives being able to ruin her day as a child. And arguably her resistance to the impulse to become Mr. Rochester's mistress (once it becomes clear he can't marry her) is what enables her to ultimately marry him and have a more equal relationship. And if Adele had been a boy, I'd imagine Jane would be just as eager to train him out of his "freaks." Like...trying to teach a kid who won't sit down and shut up just sucks. It doesn't have to have anything to do with social expectations of "femininity."

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

I think it's also important to note that the adults in Jane's life as a child were cruel and unloving to her. And Jane's "dis-obedience" stemmed from being treated unfairly and disbelieved. I think it's unlikely that she used the same methods of coercion to gain Adele's obedience. And we have to remember that she was employed to do a job, you can't teach a child that doesn't want to learn, therefore we can surmise that Adele changed her behavior because she found Jane's company and instruction engaging.

[@annstillwell730]

All the Bronte's were ahead of their time. Anne's Tenant of Wildfell Hall about a woman leaving her abusive husband and taking her child away and earning her own living was certainly way ahead of it's time and Jane's independent nature refusing to bow down her tormentors and naysayers is also way ahead of the game. That's why people loved it. I love when Jane later tells the reader that while she loved Rochester and longed to be with her her upbring and her self worth demanded that she make the choice the to leave. It wasn't so much because of society itself. No one cared for her as even Rochester pointed out so she had no one to offend by living with him but she loudly screamed to her but I have to live with myself and according to her own moral code right or wrong she could feel herself right about staying with him as he was married. Powerful.

[@jillkjv3816]

She always had the Christian morality of Helen Burns in the back of her mind. Helen became her role model in a large way.

[@Ellerbeetimes100]

I would love for Dr. Cox to have a session or two on Tenant oWH. It is so incredibly modern. It could have been written last year as historical fiction. I love my Jane Eyre, but Tenant doesn't get the love it deserves.

[@londongael]

@@Ellerbeetimes100 Agree. I love this book and feel it partly doesn't get enough attention because Charlotte damned it with faint praise, and never really gave Anne her due. The Tenant is more realistic - or perhaps I should say believable - than either Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights, with more sense of society, rather than isolated individuals. I'd love to see a bit of close reading on it.

[@brianmcdevitt2691]

Anyone who has taught young children successfully knows it is necessary to encourage a degree of compliance in the pupil. This applies regardless of the genders of teacher and taught. The important distinction between the relationships between Jane and Adele and between Mrs Reed and Jane is the motivation of the adult. Mrs Reed is deliberately cruel, Jane simply seeks to get the best out of Adele.

[@debshaw680]

Maybe I’m just simple minded but I always took Jane’s attitude toward her pupil to mean that she was so spoiled that she was unpleasant and wouldn’t listen. After getting someone who didn’t tolerate that nonsense, she settled down to being less self centered, more pleasing in that she was not throwing tantrums, and more directed. We all have to learn to manage our little freaks when we’re expected to be learning. I never took her instruction to be suppressing or crushing her spirit. I think she just taught her to marshal them so that she could use her intellect. I felt like they both said Adele wasn’t very bright so it was important that she could learn how to behave appropriately given her situation. Jane’s situation is entirely different in that she has no resources whereas Adele will always be provided for. Whether we want to be meek ladies who only care about being pleasing, or we want to be strong mentally strong and intellectual women, we need to learn to control our whims and learn to behave in polite society or you get women like Lady Catherine.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

Agreed. I believe Charlotte Bronte had read Mary Wollstonecraft's Vindication of the Rights of Women by the time she wrote JE. I can definitely see the influence of that work on the way that JE harnesses her rational faculties and also teaches Adele to do more of the same within the parameters of her innate faculties. So much of the Vindication of the Rights of Women also seems to inform Jane's vehement assertion that she could not be with Rochester while he had a wife still living- he was certainly not holding up his end of the chaste marriage bargain and Jane was rational enough to see it and live by a higher moral code. she demands it of him in whatever form he can manage it while Bertha is still living. The leaving scene is one of my favourites in the whole book. Jane just Shines so strongly in that section.

[@Izabela-ek5nh]

Yes I had exactly same impression when reading. Adele had very poor education beforehand and was probably both spoiled and neglected by her mother. Jane seemed to teach her wisely, not opressing Adele with too much sitting and reading as we hear. They have a lot of fun together - Adele really likes her governess and she wouldn't if she was cut in her natural needs and bored to death with too much lessons. Jane became a teacher later for a group of girls and she was able to adapt the education to what the girls could approve and what could be useful to them and I'm sure she did the same wise choice for Adele. But I may not be objective because I truly love Jane Eyre both as a book and character so when she tells us Adele was a nice and happy child I believe. And trust me: not all children in the world need to throw tantrums to "feel free and be happy" and a well behaving child (which means polite and cooperative, not opressed) is nothing bad really. But I'm not from the UK ;)

[@AW-uv3cb]

Great clip as usual! Must say, I'm not entirely in agreement as far as Adele goes: I can absolutely see where you're coming from, but I don't think the text of the book points to this reading in any decisive way. First, we don't have any example of Jane interacting with boys so we can only guess if she'd treat them the same way as Adele or differently. Second, nowhere in the book does the narrator draw a direct connection between the values Jane instils in Adele and feminity - nowhere does it say that Adele became "feminine and docile", "calm as is becoming of a girl" etc. (we DO see this kind of language in other books of the era... mostly those written by men! :-) ) So it's open to interpretation whether Jane teaches Adele the way she does specifically because Adele is a girl (if anything, I'd say it's about the distinction between children and adults, not women and men). We can see from further passages that Jane doesn't squash Adele's personality completely: she does allow her to dress up, doesn't silence her chatter, doesn't berate her when she gets excited about Rochester or his guests (in fact, Adele's innocent excitement and openness is presented in positive contrast to the Ingram family's coldness and fakeness). She just tones them down so Adele can learn to control her initial vanity and tendency to show off (by singing age-inappropriate songs). As for keeping calm - you're right, this one's tricky seeing how Jane herself is so fiery. But I think in a way it's a reflection of Jane's own internal struggle. Jane is clearly attracted to people who, like herself, feel strongly about things. At the same time, she greatly admires the ability to control your passions (two of the people that make a great impression on her, Helen and St John, both feel strongly and are quite analytic about their feelings). I think after her traumatic childhood, when the bursts of emotions were both a reaction to abuse and led to further abuse, Jane honestly thinks that self-control and restraint will serve her better in life, especially in her social position (and she applies it to her student too: Adele can expect a better future than Jane could, but she's still an orphan of a French dancer, which will be to her social disadvantage in the future). The whole book can be read as a study of the tension between passion and restraint (Rochester has to live with the consequences of a life spent on indulging his passions, while St John denies his feelings to the point of inhuman cold. Meanwhile, Jane tries to find a balance: she doesn't sacrifice her values for her passions, but given a chance to follow her heart at the end of the book, she doesn't hesitate for the sake of fake propriety). Wow, sorry for the long essay, that got out of hand! More "Jane Eyre" clips, please! :-)

[@amybee40]

You said everything I wanted to say, and then went even deeper. Cool!

[@AW-uv3cb]

@@amybee40 aww, thank you! :-)

[@charlottewood-harrington8669]

Yes, yes, and yes! Dr. Cox, you have picked one trait ‘docile’ and taken it out of context. Consider: Adele is neglected, and has most likely been emotionally abused. (Her mother was a sex worker. She may have gotten pregnant as a way to ‘keep’ Mr. Rochester as her ‘protector’. Think of how desperate her mother might have become loosing Mr. Rochester’s ‘protection’.) Adele has learned to please, to throw ‘freaks’ or tantrums, to gain some sense of stability in her life. She uses her language as a means of control. (She only speaks French near Mrs. Fairfax.) Jane brings stability to Adele’s life. That is the transformation between ‘freaks’ and ‘docility’. In Jane’s young life, she had no control. She was physically abused by at least her male cousin. She was emotionally abused by her Aunt. Jane was not like her cousins! Neither in physical appearance, nor in temper. She states that she always tried to be good, but was never seen as good. I believe her Aunt ‘scapegoated’ her. Aunt Reed used Jane as a scapegoat. Aunt Reed projected her fears, and negative emotions onto Jane. There was nothing Jane could have done to be seen as ‘good’ to her Aunt Reed. Mr. Brocklehurst also, was interested in identifying some people as ‘inherently bad’. This made him more likely to be one of the few that made it to heaven… So contrasting the care of neglected and abused children to feminist ideals is out of order! That said, I have enjoyed your deep reads. I love your perspectives, especially with Jane Austen. Btw have you read “Jane Austen: Game Theorist” by Michael Suk-Young Chwe?

[@londongael]

@@charlottewood-harrington8669 Just seen this interesting comment. Would you recommend Chwe's book? I did some (very) quick googling, and I'm wondering if it offers genuine perspectives, or simply maps game theory onto Austen, as could be done with any novel in which characters have to make choices. Always up for fresh insights!

[@fleurdebee3415]

I always took away the impression that there were other “foreign” elements that were trying to be quashed and suppressed in Adele. With the implication that Adele’s mother was of some loose morals, French (gasp), and eventually the impression that she may have ended up as a sex worker of some sort, I thought theater it was part of Jane’s “job” to suppress any flirtatiousness, foreign-ness and capricious behaviors that would remind Mr. Rochester and polite society of her origins. Even when I was a child, the offspring of women who were considered morally lax, were looked upon as already tainted and destined to follow in the mother’s footsteps. I also always picked up on negative opinions of the French by the English, but this may well be projection, all of it.

[@Brighid45]

That was my impression as well. At one point Jane talks about correcting Adele's 'French defects'. At the end of the novel it's suggested Adele has become a sort of governess for Jane and Rochester's children, the implication perhaps being that because of her origins, this is the best situation Adele can hope for. All JMO of course. :)

[@ciesorama]

Exactly! There is real harshness towards Adele's mother Cecile, whether because she was French, an opera singer with some very dubious behaviors recounted by Adele herself, or even just because she cheated on Rochester. Her defects are frequently seen by Jane in Adele, for example when she is almost pathetically interested in her outfits for the arrival of Rochester's glamorous houseguests... Or the way she begs for a gift when Rochester first comes home, and the creepy over the top way she thanks him?

[@bethanyperry5337]

Another thoughtful analysis thank you. Jane was somehow able to emerge from a childhood and an education that was filled with punitive adults and arbitrary rules and punishments ... her ability to not repeat how she’d been treated is remarkable. Adele lived an unstructured world devoid of loving role models. I see Jane’s approach as one that would have been appropriate to either a young boy or girl - to set expectations for listening to adults in a manner that is conducive for learning not just “lessons” but role within society albeit the stereotypical female role for females. Miss Temple’s gentle example lives on.

[@eliseleonard3477]

I always read Jane’s approach to Adele somewhat differently. I think Jane understood Adele as having a very different character to hers and proceeded responsibly to work on refining Adele’s natural strengths (eagerness to please, lightness). Jane was very aware of the realities of her world and would have wanted her charge to be prepared to succeed in it. The book really seems to be a triptych. One one wing is Bertha, an extreme case of a woman without any prattle or eagerness to please, who violates the serenity of her home just by existing. On the other wing is Adele, utterly disenfranchised and powerless, an actual child, only notable for sweetness and malleability. The center panel is Jane, a whole newly adult person who wants to please and displease, who exercises judgment and has a full inner life. Rochester does his damnedest to ignore Bertha and Adele, and this drives his life and is nearly his ruination. When he finally engages with Jane, a real person in he central panel of the triptych, everyone in the picture finds repose (even Bertha).

[@helenannedawson3694]

I wonder if there is a deliberate spectrum of behaviour here - Adele is being taught to behave herself, then Jane moves to her own desire for a slightly less conventional life, then it ends with Bertha, the most extreme example of a woman who refused to/was not capable of conforming to social behaviour or standards. Perhaps there is a warning in that - if behaviour becomes too atypical and 'uncalm'

[@k.s.k.7721]

When you speak of women "colluding in their oppression", in sociology it's known as "horizontal oppression". When the dominant class indoctrinates the subjugated class enough so that they perpetuate those values on each other, without the dominant class having to directly do so. Foot binding in China is a good example - it was women who routinely did the violence against their own daughters. We can see this type of horizontal oppression in many areas geographically and over time.

[@hypatia4754]

It still happens today in all aspects of society, women putting other women down. Women become indignant if you point it out to them.

[@thesisypheanjournal1271]

I think you're reading too much into Jane's assessment of Adele because you're not taking the pupil/teacher and child/adult dynamics into account. Compare Jane as a fictional teacher to Annie Sullivan as a real teacher. In Helen Keller, Annie had a spoiled child who had been allowed to freely exercise her whims. This is not healthy in a child, neither a real one like Helen nor a fictional one like Adele. Here are some excerpts from Annie's letters to her mentor, Dr. Michael Anangos: "Since I wrote you, Helen and I have gone to live all by ourselves in a little garden-house about a quarter of a mile from her home.... I very soon made up my mind that I could do nothing with Helen in the midst of the family, who have always allowed her to do exactly as she pleased. .... I saw clearly that it was useless to try to teach her language or anything else until she learned to obey me. I have thought about it a great deal, and the more I think, the more certain I am that obedience is the gateway through which knowledge, yes, and love, too, enter the mind of the child." After the focus on obedience and discipline: "My heart is singing for joy this morning. A miracle has happened! The light of understanding has shone upon my little pupil's mind, and behold, all things are changed! The wild little creature of two weeks ago has been transformed into a gentle child. She is sitting by me as I write, her face serene and happy, crocheting a long red chain of Scotch wool. She learned the stitch this week, and is very proud of the achievement. When she succeeded in making a chain that would reach across the room, she patted herself on the arm and put the first work of her hands lovingly against her cheek. .... The great step-the step that counts-has been taken. The little savage has learned her first lesson in obedience, and finds the yoke easy. It now remains my pleasant task to direct and mould the beautiful intelligence that is beginning to stir in the child-soul." One could hardly claim that Annie Sullivan's goal was to turn Helen into a docile, obedient little pet who would always do as she was told. The goal was to unlock the child's potential and set her free to explore the world and thrive in it. Annie's letters are appended to Helen Keller's autobiography: digital.library.upenn.edu/women/keller/life/life.html

[@מריםבןישי]

I aalso thought of Helen Keller and Ann Sullivean as I listened to the lecture and Anns teaching Helen to proper behavior

[@DrOctaviaCox]

N.B. I think it's interesting that these are Jane Eyre's final words on Adele (and suggests that Jane's appreciation of Adele being "docile" extends beyond their time as governess & pupil): "...and when she left school, I found in her a pleasing and obliging companion: docile, good-tempered, and well-principled. By her grateful attention to me and mine, she has long since well repaid any little kindness I ever had it in my power to offer her." (ch.38)

[@lastchancemonicam3948]

I always took this to have a cultural aspect to it. In Victorian England, the French were seen as lascivious and debauched. Adele was born and raised in a French theatre- one of the most decadent places in Europe at the time. To display her in public, having only the mannerisms she learned in the French theatre would cause disgrace to Mr. Rochester.

[@denisehill7769]

@@lastchancemonicam3948 I agree. I always read it as Jane, based on her own experience, was fitting Adele with the skills to cope as an adult, so that she could either make a suitable marriage, or support herself by whatever work she could (assuming that she would not inherit from Mr Rochester in any way). Jane is a free-thinker but she's also a realist. She maybe wanted to save Adele from following in her mother's footsteps? I would also add that she was being paid to teach Adele!

[@claireconolly8355]

Has anyone ever thought of this from a parental or teacher's perspective? I am a teacher (and Mum!) and it's almost everyone's dream to have calm still children (not docile... but even then! 🤣). Sometimes you need to look at it from a self control perspective growing from a child into an adult. Learning self control and not saying whatever pops into your head, doing whatever you want, whenever or having no awareness of what is happening around you is perhaps more of a focus here 🤷🏼‍♀️ Another perspective is that we always discipline and behave to our children the way that we were disciplined ourselves... even against our better judgement or by accident. It is so ingrained. Perhaps Jane was going through the motions without much thought- to "learn" or take in information you must first be still or calm (or for Jane to have quiet for her work of instructing, a clear head). This could be taking place whilst having grander thoughts of her own to feminist ideas. I am a piano teacher and I absolutely need to have some kind of "calm" in the room. I then see the little personality flourish on my piano stool as they talk about their musings. It makes it more difficult that the girl is a child in a way. I feel this makes it more skewed. I do like your analysis but as a Mum and teacher this part just screams out at me with other motivations 🙈

[@denisehill7769]

@@claireconolly8355 I must admit I hadn't, being neither, but you're right (and something my piano teacher says to me often is Relax! and calm your playing) Also our modern view of the word docile may well be different from the usage in Charlotte's day. Charlotte herself knew the trials and tribulations of teaching before writing Jane Eyre so it is highly possible she wrote with that view in mind. Certainly a child blurting anything out while in company, while it might be amusing today, might well have been undesirable or embarrassing back then.

[@lastchancemonicam3948]

@@denisehill7769 Charlotte, herself, was not known for being docile. I believe it was she who famously asked, "Where do you have the most problem, my size [she was very short], my gender, or my attitude?" Maybe this was to show that Jane didn't always see herself clearly.

[@thesisypheanjournal1271]

I think you need to keep in mind that Jane was starting with a spoiled child -- a Georgianna Reed. Being allowed to have her own way all the time turned Georgianna into an insufferable brat. And you need to look at the difference between Mrs. Reed's attempts to "tame" the wild Jane and Jane's efforts with Adelle. We need to look at the contrast in how one guides a child's spirit, teaching real discipline rather than using abuse to cow the child.

[@andreazdral8273]

I was also thinking this, especially considering Charlotte Bronte's own experience in being a governess. All of the children she would have been working with were extremely privileged members of the upper and supper middle class, and were likely cruel, rude, and very spoilt. I can almost imagine Adele's character as having an element of wish fulfillment, of what it would be like to tutor an ideal child. It may have also been a way for Bronte to "tell" her upper class employers that the way they parented their children was the cause of their bad behaviour. I also think it's important to highlight Bronte's religiosity. I think particularly in Jane Eyre it is made clear that Jane is a very pious person. Because obedience to God is a important tenant of Christianity, especially at this time, it could even be seen that this disciplined and gentle behaviour was an ideal for both men and women at the time (though to different extents). The evidence that I have for this is that the men who are wild and unruly in the novel are also punished for their behaviour -especially Mr Rochester. The transformation of his character from a confident, brash, and demanding character, to the quiet and dependant man of the final chapter is leagues apart. It's especially telling that he cannot have a happy ending without becoming a balanced and obedient character himself

[@gijanetexas5770]

I thought a lot of the so-called feminism was more about Jane’s Christianity. She won’t become Rochester’s mistress because of her religious beliefs. Somehow that got interpreted as feminism.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

This ! YES!! I am sick of the feminist analysis. I think it really misses the point and Charlotte Bronte’s own beliefs. She was a parsons daughter, after all! The novel ends with StJohn’s pious Christian missionary soldier’s death, and this is not a mistake on Bronte’s part, and yet it generally completely overlooked. I am yet to read any really good textual analysis of this fact about the novel, but I suspect I need to dig back into pre World War 2 scholars’ works to find it.

[@karlanderson2000]

I read this in my 20's when in the throes of college and atheism and whatnot. Read it as anti-christian, or at least deeply suspicious of christianity. And yes Jane was some feminist icon then. I read it last year, as a 47 year old, and found it very different than I remembered. Instead of anti-christian, the novel struck me firmly anchored in the christian worldview. And I have to say, the book was deeply affecting and satisfying read that way. Jane's refusal to go away with Rochester is just heroic, and makes their final union, when she can meet him on equal terms and in good standing before God, so sweet. Far more interesting than whatever crap I was told about Jane while in college.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

@@karlanderson2000 yep- there is a hell of a lot of crap disseminated through universities 😂. It is definitely a much more satisfying read once we accept and try to understand Jane’s Christian world view and the full context of her times. It is stupid to think that she thought the same way that we might in a secular and post birth control world. Women’s actions and thoughts on marriage are indelibly tied to their reproductive capacity and this is and entirely different kettle of fish to what we have today when the results of romance and sex can actually be controlled to a large degree. Helen Burns is critical to understanding this Christian world view of Jane’s , as is StJohn- otherwise, they need not feature as main Characters in the plot arc. Truly interesting characters. I need to read the novel again soon :)

[@josephkarl2061]

I love the comments section of your videos 😃 It is a thoughtful and well written set of replies to an excellent presentation 👏

[@megwilcox9774]

I feel like you've trivialized the passage about "action" and a "field for endeavour" into a need for outdoor exercise, when I believe it's about agency and scope. Consider how many women ran away to pass as male at sea or at war. That's the kind of action and field I think of when I read this passage. A "field for endeavour" is more about the wide world, and all the possibilities for exercising all of one's faculties, not just the physical, which were open to men. Jane would have gone with St. John as a free agent, but not as a wife.

[@annwhiteaker6144]

I first read Jane Eyre when I was, I think, about 13 (which would have been in about 1965). I greatly enjoyed it and quickly followed it it up with all her other published works and Mrs Gaskell's 'life'. As time went on, I read any other work I could find on her and 'the Brontes' in general. I suppose it might be wise to re-read at least some of them before commenting, but they made a strong impression on me, so I'll risk it. Even when reading Mrs Gaskell's biography while I was still a teenager, I firmly came to the conclusion that, much as I sympathised with Charlotte's frustration with her life as a schoolmarm, I would never, even though I was a bookish and placid child, have wanted her to teach me. Her exasperation with, you could almost call it contempt of, her pupils showed clearly in the letters she wrote to her family and friends. I don't think this attitude to her intractable pupils is straightforward hypocrisy so much as limited sympathy. A desire for intellectual improvement and economic independence would have won her approval - girlish high spirits not so much, or rather not at all. Of course, there is also a strong moral element at play in the example you give too. Mr Rochester had given Jane an account of his relationship with his ward's mother, which in Jane's mind would have tainted the little girl's dancing, singing and general high spirits.

[@dorothywillis1]

I had the same reaction when I read Charlotte's letters and Mrs. Gaskell's Biography of her. Jane Eyre is the teacher Charlotte would have liked to be.

[@jessica_jam4386]

I totally agree. I first read Jane Eyre when I was 15, and have loved it ever since. One of my favorite books. But the more I learn about Charlotte the less I think I would’ve liked her as a person. I still get annoyed when I think about the forward she wrote to Wuthering Heights(another of my favorite books!). So yes, I wouldn’t have wanted CB teaching a child of mine either. I would definitely hire Jane Eyre to teach my future children French though 😊

[@amandaserenevy2291]

I disagree about whether Jane Eyre is promoting Adele's gay prattle. I think that Jane Eyre is characterizing Adele's natural personality in that phrase and that it shows she is not trying to suppress Adele's natural personality, and is instead appreciating what is good in her student even though it is not like Jane's character. I agree with your points about her trying to help Adele to behave with some more decorum, but she still enjoys Adele's natural personality. I don't think that Jane Eyre engages in gay prattle herself or promotes it as a general feminine virtue. Jane herself is usually solemn or sometimes playfully provacative. However, she values her own cognitive abilities too much to believe that gay prattle would be something for herself to aspire to. I do agree that Jane is not feminist in the sense of challenging the patriarchy. She wants the patriarchy to give her a little more room to be fully human, but she is in mostly silent revolt, not usually in overt revolt. She does advocate for her own needs and wishes on occasion, but she is not trying to overthrow social norms or the existing power structure.

[@meghavarshinikrishnaswamy2511]

Jane did spend years of her life cultivating an exterior of calmness, different from the restlessness and rebellion of her child self. Something she admired in her teacher, Miss Temple.

[@Lyxs4s]

I think your analysis has been brilliant. I have always felt somehow sorry for Bertha Mason. Well, I agree with someone who previously wrote that Brontë is a sort of protofeminist, very aware of the society she lived in. We are not talking about radical vindication of women's rights. It was too early for that I do not know what you think about this particular subject, dr. Cox, but maybe present day critcism as well as modern narrative, including films, make too much use of contemporary values in order to evaluate works and events from the past.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

Definitely agree with your last lines here. The text is often taken too far out of its historical context on many, many character and plot points.

[@karenrapoport7852]

No, she isn’t being a hypocrite in her treatment of Adele. Jane learned at a young age and the hard way that acting on your every whim, emotion and freaks will not get you anywhere in a mans world… which was the world she had to live in. She learned that you can conduct yourself with reasonable composure and all the feminine attributes that a man like Rochester would hold in high regard. Yes, She wanted to teach Adele to conduct herself in a manner that society valued but at the same time she also believed that you could still retain your identity. Basically You can be true to who you are as an autonomous free thinking person without acting a fool. Jane was the prime example of that. Her behavior as a child got her estranged from her adopted family and sent to a boarding school. But she learned from her experiences. I think she also learned how to pick her battles for example when she came back to see her dying excuse for an aunt she composed her self despite her aunt still being the horrible person she’s always been to her which actually must’ve been very satisfying to not stoop to her level I mean her aunt was a prime example of a overly emotional woman who just ask before she thinks. Yet when it came to Jane doing what she thought was right by refusing to live as Rochesters mistress she did in fact “act out”. I mean she literally took off and ran away with no plan she literally ran away from home with a suitcase and almost died and that is a classic little girl Jane move which almost cost her her life. Again it seems that every time she jumped without checking to see if there was a pool beneath her she ended up in a bad situation. But things ended up working out for her because she was always learning and correcting her mistakes. Learning when to stomp her foot and cry and when to hold your head up high and never let them see you cry (like she did when that blond gold digger tried putting her down in front of Rochester. God I wish Bronte would have told us what Rochester said to her when he “read her fortune”.

[@robinrubendunst869]

Jane is not trying to thwart Adele’s independence or stifle her nature. She’s not trying to make Adele pleasing and docile because that’s what society expects. Yes, Jane was hired to do a job, and that job included educating this little “genuine daughter of Paris,” and teach her to self-regulate. There is nothing wrong with self-disciple, and life can be much easier and more productive and fulfilling when one is self-disciplined. Jane was a critical thinker, her biggest influences in her early life were Miss Temple and Helen Burns. Later, her cousins, Mary and Diana and St. John Rivers. All self disciplined. And I think you go too far implying that Jane thought Adele’s liveliness was a bad thing. What I suspect is that Adele was overly rambunctious and perhaps shallow, fatuous and scatterbrained. We saw that in Georgiana Reed.

[@SanjaMatesic]

On a visit to London quite a long time ago I saw a wonderful dramatic adaptation of Jane Eyre in a small theatre. When Jane is shut up in the attic as a child ( punishment for her passionate rebellion against being treated unfairly by the Reeds), the madwoman appears, dressed in red. She remains on the upper level of the stage until the end of the play, reacting with her body language to everything that happens to Jane and expressing Jane’s repressed feelings. In the final scene, when Jane marries Mr. Rochester, the “madwoman” comes down from the attic and the three of them embrace. It was a very powerful scene.

[@laurensteenkamp7693]

I think it might be an idea to think about how Jane and Adele were treated pre their respective arrivals at Thornfield, remember for most of her 'childhood' Jane was treated horribly by the Reeds (her family, although in the case of John and his sisters' it was likely learnt behaviour from their mother). Contrast that with Adele's pre-Thornfield life where she was often around people who treated her nicely (almost indulgently if you're Rochester or his fellow male admirers of Adele's mother). Also keep in mind that upon their first meeting Jane is the first person Adele has met in England that can speak fluent French, so of course Adele would have a severe case of verbal diohrea on first meeting Jane

[@mariateresam3206]

Hot take: this paradoxical treatment of Adele (And of the wife of Mr. Rochester) by the narrative voice is not due to a lack of egalitarian values but due to exophobia. Adele is always spoken of with contempt because her mother was a French courtesan, and if you really listen to how Jane Eyre describes Bertha, you can see a hint of disgust when talking about her appearance. I think both Jane Eyre and the Author just doesn’t see foreigners as equal in morality and worth as English people. Finally, the narrative voice becomes kinder to Adele as she grows up and become more English and “decent”. In fact, the things she criticizes about Adele wasn’t Adele’s femininity but her Frenchness, her French song and dance, her French box and clothes etc. Jane’s female cousins in both her mother and father side are fully fleshed women with their flaws and characters. Even Mrs. Poole, peculiar as she was in the beginning to Jane, is treated like an individual, so clearly Jane and the Author can see English women as people, but not foreign women as people.

[@jackbrennan3468]

I agree like Bertha she is foreign. Equally one of her cousins becomes a Catholic nun in France and this is also frowned on. A great novel nonetheless but here we see she is without her own prejudices

[@tymanung6382]

If this was any of the Brontes, own views, this would be ironic, but often common, as the Brontes were entirely of 2 Celtic backgrounds--- their father Patrick was Irish, their mother Marcus was Cornish- they were Celtic--- British, not English. but they seemed rather assimilated as would-be "English?"?. though reports say that they at 1st all spoke Irish style, but the English, but later the siblings spoke Yorkshire dialect? of English, as they lived among speakers of that dialect, including their famous greeting, "Aye up" for hello. National educated S England origin Received Pronunciation (RP) is said to be invented in 20th c. , so they had to speak the local Yorkshire dialect if they dud speak Irish English. There is a report that says that Charlotte Bronte feared that she sounded too Irish, but It did not mention the other 3 Bronte s adult speech styles.

[@mariatoni5355]

Sorry, Sie haben nix kapiert.😔

[@Marielusi]

I think Jane only could teach what she knew. She had learned that being obedient and calm gets you to be accepted and respected. And she really cared for Adèle and was probably worried that she would not find her way in life if she stayed that flighty little girl. And of course after Jane got to know Mr Rochester and saw that he despised frivolity an such in women and that he didn't like Adèle for that reason probably motivated her to form Adèle into a little version of herself because she noticed Rochester valuing these character traits.

[@annmorris2585]

Very interesting and you made several points that I made in my final paper at college about Charlotte Bronte. I had to fight like mad to get my parents to agree to me going to university; it wasn't appropriate for a girl. I was supposed to do an office job. I did go to uni and graduated but there was no argument for my brother going- indeed it was expected. And I went up in the early 70s! 20th C I hasten to add;-)

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Oh, thank you!

[@dorothywillis1]

Just to let everyone know this was not the case in every household, I was born in 1943, was always bookish, and there was never any doubt that I was going to go to college. My parents were entirely supportive. I remember my father told me a friend of his said I should be holding down a job and paying him rent because I was now old enough to do so. My father replied, "She is working steadily toward a worthy goal and I think it's my job to make it as easy as I can for her." So not all families were like yours!

[@annmorris2585]

@@dorothywillis1 How kind of you to reply and yes, not all families were the same. I was born in 1954 but my parents and, more especially my dad's siblings, thought I was "too big for my boots." I am glad we both succeeded.

[@AW-uv3cb]

@@annmorris2585 I admire all women who managed to fight for their education when it was not a given, like you! And I'm happy for those who were supported in their goals from the start, like Dorothy! Both of you have paved the way for us in the later generations! :-)

[@dorothywillis1]

@@annmorris2585 It always irritates me when people make overbroad generalizations. I was never discouraged in any ambition I had. In fact, I remember the principal of my high school calling me in at the start of my Junior year and pointing out that I had the ability to take a Science or Math major in college. I was heading for English Lit, and he wanted to point out to me while there was still time to change, that, "Math and Science are where the money is!"

[@ΛΕΜΟΝΙΑΤΑΣΟΥΛΑ]

I agree with you that Jane was herself a lively and perhaps a wayward child but in a way different from Adele's. Adele is presented as a somewhat superficial person, somebody who cannot feel deeply, or experience real passions as Jane would. Being lively might mean both being noisy or perhaps refusing to study (something that Adele would) but refusing to submit to the whims of others or telling the truth without embellushments( something that Jane would).

[@enive2003]

I don't think it is right to compare Jane's childhood situation with Adele's. Jane as a small child tried her utmost to please her aunt, but there was no pleasing her, she just hated Jane and showed that to her all the time. After a while Jane rebelled against the constant oppression and gross injustice she was suffering from her aunt and Mr. Brocklehurst. Adele was a spoiled child. I didn't think Jane was trying to suppress her liveliness, but it was certainly her place to work against Adele's waywardness, to be able to teach her anything - just remember, at first Adele simply refused to speak English. And Jane made Adele "forget her little freaks" by granting her attention and rewarding appropriate behavior, basically by making Adele attached to her and WANT to learn, not by use of force or punishment. "Obedient" is not the opposite of "lively", but of "wayward".

[@alexadelroy5522]

Jane Eyre, as a governess, has the job of preparing Adele for life; and Jane learned early that being "passionate" got her into a lot of trouble and delivered her into the hands of the powerful Mrs. Reed. She subsequently served an apprenticeship in self-control and self discipline at Lowood School which allowed her to harness her abilities and to choose her own course. I see her as recognizing this training in self-control as the key to her freedom: that which gives those without "rights" a measure of power. Seeing self-control in this way, it is easy to see why she would seek to share it with another person who has no "rights" to recognition by the world.

[@jmarie9997]

Jane was hired to be a governess to Adele and to teach her to live in English society. IIRC, in the beginning Adele was behaving somewhat inappropriately, singing risque songs and speeches. Not a habit that would help her in the future.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Well, yes, indeed (depending on what future, of course!). I think it's interesting, though, that there is a great deal of focus on Jane Eyre's strident individuality etc as a child, but no real narrative interest in Adele's.

[@jmarie9997]

@@DrOctaviaCox She's the ward of an English gentleman. I'm assuming he would make some provision for her as she grew up, since he took her in and had her educated*. So she would likely be expected to come out in society at some point. *Granted, he did it from a distance.*

[@archervine8064]

@@jmarie9997 the ward of a gentleman, but not known to be the daughter of one and known to be the daughter of a (oh, horrors!) French opera dancer, which was seen as next to a prostitute. She will likely have money, but socially? Could see her having a tough go of it.

[@jmarie9997]

@@archervine8064 A pretty young woman with money would probably manage.

[@archervine8064]

@@jmarie9997 Adele also seems to be a fairly cheerful person, as another advantage. My comparison is more between how a hypothetical young Miss Rochester might be treated, and Adele.

[@lindseykreider6212]

Really appreciate your interpretations and the knowledge you bring to all these beloved classics. Thank you for all your time and efforts. :) I had a thought or two when it comes to the way Jane trains Adele to be docile and teachable. In my personal experience as a teacher and mother when children don't have a reliable and caring guardian who creates order and regulations it can increase the "freak outs" or tantrums that generally go away when loved, cared for and guided. Poor Adele was abandoned and parentless which can really affect the psychology of so young a person, let alone any age person. Adele probably struggled with self worth and finding a sense of belonging. These situations can lead to a lot of at risk behavior and definitely make it hard for that person to be dedicated to their own education. I'd like to believe that Jane did by Adele what she wished was done by her and that in just having a more human and personal approach she is being a small spark into the feminist realm but even more so into the child psychology movement. Particularly when she states that children should be treated as though they have feelings. It's impossible to know but would be very telling if perhaps Jane Eyre's pupil was a male. Would she not also go about taming and guiding a male student to be docile and teachable? To work with a student who isn't such would be fruitless.

[@ShehnazKhan1]

I always thought of Jane’s (and therefore, Charlotte Bronte’s) attitude towards Adele as being born of prejudice against foreigners. Adele is only pleasing once she adopts English mannerisms and gives up her French-ness.

[@clpearson991]

I always interpreted Jane's "calming" of Adele was more in the way of, say, Super Nanny, than the treatment she experienced at Lowood. Her cousins, John especially, were spoiled brats who never faced any consequences and reasonably she wouldn't allow that kind of indulgence for her pupil. There's a line between imaginative and delusional that it's important to teach children. I can't help but think of Anne Shirley. She used her imagination to escape her bleak reality but doing so often led to (mostly amusing) mishaps. She never lost that imaginative, dreamy side of herself, but she did learn to be more practical and comfortably inhabit her social sphere.

[@rachelport3723]

But the people whose influence on the child Jane was based on care and love - Helen and Miss Temple - also tame her and teach her to contain her passionate nature. Jane herself says that she always attaches and subordinates herself to stronger personalities that she can value. It makes sense that she would model her teaching on them. And it can be strategic - when her behavior is no longer "freakish" and rebellious, her inner life is free to flourish. Her drawings are her only outward expression of that inner life. However rebellious and radical her thoughts might be, her manner is quiet and submissive. Is she teaching that same stategy to Adele? Blanche Ingram is an example of Darwin's idea of womanhood, fairly typical of the time. And Jane knows that Rochester scorns that. I always think that his most redeeming feature is his recognition of the inner Jane from the very beginning, and his love for that part of her. He has always before been attracted to the other, but is completely disillusioned with it. The two examples we know of his relationships with women, Bertha Mason and Celine Varens, were painful and unhappy.

[@sharragamez1318]

I think it's telling that Jane doesn't conform for her aunt or Brocklehurst - her conformity is accomplished by Miss Temple, gently, by offering her affection. Thus she turns the same methods on Adele. Maybe she sees no contradiction, though, between outward compliance with social norms and inward rebellion. If she believes it works for her, she might believe it is equally appropriate for Adele.

[@marinadubois7347]

There is a difference between a child and a woman. Jane had spent years with children as a child and as a teacher. How she treats this student doesn’t reflect her views of grown women. She saw what the child needed : attention and structure. Kids aren’t small adults. Teachers are looking for a student who wants to please because they’re easier to teach. Jane is a working woman who is a teacher. She should not be viewed in one dimension.

[@kyraburns7872]

This was an interesting analysis. I think my previous take on this seeming contradiction has been to assume that, even though Jane is fierce & independent, she is also developing feelings for Mr. Rochester and wants Adele to be especially well-behaved to impress him. Like many women, she is anticipating what the (primary) man in her sphere wants and trying to shape reality to meet that, so she will be viewed in a positive light. I think most of us have done this before, if we're honest, even if it meant undercutting someone else.

[@pushista9322]

I love the fact that many comments mention the importance of a healthy hierarchy between a child and a parental figure. Without it kids feel like the parent can't really protect them. Also, behaving properly is still a requirement today even for men if they want to be taken seriously in university or at work. That's an important soft skill and Jane was doing Adele a favour by opening more social lifts for her. There is another aspect to this discussion. Up until today we don't have a language to describe parenting accurately. It's true that many women can say the same things about their own parenting practice that will sound decent and reasonable for many parents. Yet behind these words there will be some horrible things like those the author of the video explains: policing your child, punishing them for being lively, forcing them to be obedient. It's not the case with Jane Eyre but it's the case with many modern day mothers.

[@missanne2908]

I found it fascinating that you brought up Sarah Stickney Ellis. I have not read Daughters of England, but I do own an American first edition of Wives of England and have read it. In that book as well she does talk about the greater and lesser sexes, but she also says that women need to be in charge of the household finances because men don't have the discipline to do so.

[@missanne2908]

Mrs. Ellis also states that if the husband is a spendthrift, the wife will be blamed no matter what she does. If she allows her husband to buy anything he wants, she will be condemned for allowing the household expenses to be ruined. If the wife carefully manages their expenses, then she will be condemned for not allowing her husband to buy anything he wants. I would really like to see videos on your reviews of Wives of England and Daughters of England in the same manner as your review of Fordyces's Sermons for Young Women.

[@WinningSidekick]

What an interesting point, as always. I hadn’t thought of this when I read the novel myself, but of course you're right: while it would be Jane's job to "tame" Adele as her governess, the amount of pleasure she seems to take in it doesn't speak merely ot professionalism. Overall, I think Jane Eyre has a lot of proto-feminist ideas clashing with what I would call internalized misogyny. As an example: while a fuller and taller figure was evidently in fashion, the narrative treats the conventionally beautiful women of Georgiana Reed, Blanche Ingram, Celine Varens and (of course) Bertha Mason rather poorly. Even Mr. Rochester's dialogue at one point seems to mock Blanche's size, something along the lines of "and what an armful she would be", if I recall correctly? It seems almost juvenile to have them all be shallow, stupid, cruel, mad, or a combination of all the above, but of course I think one would struggle to find a woman who hasn't felt insecure in the ways in which the normative bounds of beauty shut her out. Brontë must have been surrounded by novels wherein only beautiful women were allowed inner worlds, were allowed to be protagonists, or were allowed to be loved and desired at all. I can hardly blame her for wanting to give a plain heroine a voice, too, but I do think it a pity that she seems sometimes to pit Jane against other women. Maria Temple, Helen Burns and of course both the Rivers sisters are wonderful, though. Even Rosamond Oliver seems to be allowed depth that the four mentioned earlier simply is not-- perhaps because Jane is not in love with St. John, already receives attention and affection from Mary and Diana, and so there is nobody for whom Rosamond is competition?

[@WinningSidekick]

I'm only a grad student and it's been a while since I read the novel, so please forgive me any misremembrances or missed points!

[@Colin91809]

I love these close readings you do Dr. Cox! I'm sure you have several video discussions planned, but I think it would be cool for you to do a close reading about a classical horror novel like frankenstein or dracula for halloween. :)

[@charlychips]

Your explanations amaze me everytime. What a fantastic teacher.

[@eshchory]

I always felt that, in Miss Bronte's opinion, while Jane's liveliness was meant to indicate her strong spirit and independence of thought Adele's liveness was judged to be flirty, frivolous and rather too French to be completely acceptable.

[@Ellerbeetimes100]

While the feminist readings are more than sound, let's not forget the inherent xenophobia of the period. Jane isn't just making Adele more female, but more English and less French. I find that reading to not run aggressively against the feminist reading.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

How do you interpret the seeming contradiction in Jane Eyre’s treatment of Adèle Varens and her own rebellion against custom?

[@julecaesara482]

I don't think we'll be able to separate the author from the narrative voice or Jane Eyre here. I would love to think that Brontë did this deliberately to show how people can act against their own virtues without realsing, but it's also entirely plausible she just didn't see how teacher a girl the costum manners contribute to what she was writing against. I think we all experience this. My parents never wanted me to hold back from anything just because of me being a girl, but I got the dolls and my brother the car toys. I never wanted to hold myself back from anything but I lack skills in many traditionally male dominated areas simply because I didn't deem the skills necessary for me. I do think the passage is historically feminist and I give Brontë the benefit of not being a miraculously woke person with the same insight today's society has a few hundred years later; similarly, today's society could really take some lessons from a few hundred years before. Knowledge is a dubious thing. So are customs.

[@heatherrobertson6110]

Isn't she just teaching Adele to behave as she does? Jane was a headstrong child, but she left Lowood as superficially meek and well behaved as anybody could possible expect. She learned to hide her feelings, suppress her anger and bite her tongue - pretty much how she taught Adele to behave. Only the people who know her very well realise that she isn't as meek as she appears (first Rochester, then the Rivers). I blame that Helen Burns for all of it!

[@StellaTZH]

I’ve read the novel several times and as a non-native speaker I always assumed Jane's stance on educating Adele and tempering her nature had more to do with Adele being French than her gender. There are several passages that allude to Adele's nationality like a character flaw. So my interpretation was that this might be a case of xenophobia more so than of misogyny.

[@jmarie9997]

@@heatherrobertson6110 She was a woman making her way in the world alone. She did her job teaching Adele because it was her job. She rebelled against her aunt because her situation was intolerable. She showed her true self to Rochester because she was in love, and she stood up to St John because he was a threat and a bully to her. (Also, by then she was independently wealthy.)

[@kaylae6487]

I don't believe the passage in question has anything to do with Jane repressing Adele at all. Jane is simply explaining that Adele is a lively child who has had no disciplined habits. This can make for very difficult teaching if you try to take such a child, and make them sit down and focus on a boring lesson. Jane is simply saying that she is helping Adele learn self-discipline, self-control, a love for learning, and listening to those in authority over her. The comparison with Jane's childhood doesn't hold up, because Jane is described by Mrs Reed as being too quiet and serious; unlike Adele who is lively and loquacious. Jane also strives to be obedient, and only rebels because she rightly perceives her unjust and unfair treatment, in spite of her compliance. Jane/Charlotte are feminist, but as her commentary on Bertha Mason shows, women with no self-discipline, no self-control, and no moral principles are dangerous.

[@sekaihatsu]

I am now reading Jane Eyre, and am well past this part so no spoilers to me. Thank you for your insight to this portion of the book. I thought it just showed how young and untried by the world Jane is but it's a bit more than that. Thank you for including the part about Bertha, that didn't enter my mind at all.

[@TwoBitColorPencil]

Fantastic! I loved your analysis. Reading Jane Eyre filled me with mixed feelings... on one hand, it is absolutely extraordinary how relatable Jane's plight is even today, her inner world, and what that means for a novel written in the 19th century. On the other, Jane ending up with Mr. Rochester is the one element that sticks out like a sore thumb if we judge it through our modern point of view.

[@queenmotherhane4374]

I’m in agreement here with everyone else who doesn’t think Jane is quashing Adele’s character-she’s simply kindly and firmly teaching limits to a child who had never been taught anything at all. I believe Jane would have taught a boy in her charge similarly. (And a quibble, off topic: I interpret Bronte’s use of the word “field” in the passage quoted to be figurative, not literal-as in a field of studies or interests, rather than a patch of ground to run around on.)

[@moonw5814]

This is a marvellous analysis. I always 'overlooked' Adele, although it did bother me a little that Jane's affection for her pupil is so very tepid. Even before the arrival of exciting Mr Rochester Jane is hardly interested in her. But I put it down to Adele's being both French and illegitimate. At some point in the novel Jane refers to her 'French faults' and I attributed her wish to remodel Adele to a desire to make the girl more English. In the past illegitimate children were often considered untrustworthy and prone to sexual licentiousness. After all, weren't their parents the same? Jane was and is one of my greatest heroines, but perhaps she is more like my mother than I realized. I always cast my mother as Mrs Reed, but perhaps I'll reconsider.

[@surfinggirl007]

Wow, this analysis was so powerful! What a thought provoking ending: How are we as women inadvertently working towards the further suppression of other women.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

I don’t think that there is too much issue with guiding Adele to start curbing her more childish flights of fancy as she moves towards adulthood. Miss Temple taught Jane to curb her flightier emotions and tell the truth and analyse situations in a more rational manner. Miss Temple did not submit to Brocklehurst’s unreasonable demands and I think Jane saw the benefits of utilising a more stoic approach to walking through the world and trying to affect change within it, despite the reality of the restrictions on her life as a woman in that era. Personally, I think that Becoming an Adult Triggly-Puff (or Bertha Mason) serves no man or woman very well even today. I maintain that Bertha had a genuine mental illness that was beyond her ability to control, even if it was somewhat exacerbated by her role as a bartering chip into a respectable British family because of her dowry and lily-livered and scheming family.

[@transamgal9]

I grew up wanting so badly to be the angel in the house. But alas that was not to be. Society changed all the rules. I've been confused about who I am for the last 40 years. Is that weird? I was a stay at home mom but I was divorced with 3 children and was only able to be home due to the generosity of my parents.

[@christopherbarber9351]

Thank you for your analysis.

[@missanne2908]

Earlier in Jane Eyre, the saintly Helen Burns instructs Jane in Christian meekness, and that is portrayed in a positive light. It seems to be a case of the means justifying the ends. Mrs. Reed, Bessie, Mr. Brocklehurst, Miss Temple and Helen Burns all want to make essentially the same changes to Jane's spirit. If it's taught with a spoonful of sugar then the novel portrays this as positive, if not, it is condemned.

[@pgrigg]

I think an important context to consider in Jane's opinions of Adele is that Adele is FRENCH. There was very, very much prejudice against French "looseness of morals" in England at that time, and the narrative voice conveys this by how sexual the song is that Adele performs, learned from her mother. I think talking about the feminism of the times is fascinating, but there was also the "racism" (French vs English) which should be considered. I think it wasn't just "high spirits" that Jane was trying to train Adele away from, but her "French-ness," which was considered unacceptable in English society at that time.

[@DipityS]

I do agree, though perhaps with a caveat. Jane Eyes' own nemeses were deliberately cruel and mistaken in their understanding of Jane Eyre. I believe I recall Jane not pushing against her teacher Maria Temple who was kind and loving in the same way she did with her Aunt and Mr. Brocklehurst - her aunt who hated her for selfish reasons of not wanting to share her home with the child and Mr Brocklehurst being an out and out women hater - so perhaps Jane was fighting against both those behaviours? I'm not sure where to go with that argument beyond pointing out that Jane behaved with Miss Temple as Adèle did with Jane - perhaps for Brontë’ both arguments were valid - that a lady ought to meet all sorts of ideals to be considered worthy and that they also needed more than what society allowed them?

[@Lola-gl9rl]

My favorite book!

[@JaneCardoKennedy]

I wonder if Jane Eyre’s attitude towards Adele isn’t more a reflection of generalized attitudes towards children (male and female). This doesn’t negate the contradiction, because as a child Jane Eyre rejected characterizations of herself as disobedient or bad. But it might be interesting to look at it not only as her attitude towards a girl, but also to look at attitudes towards children in general. Anne Brontë in Agnes Grey says more about children and that could perhaps inform this discussion. Just a thought!

[@ttiger86]

Dr. Cox made a point about later, after school, here in the comments that gives me pause about making this comment. I still wonder if it applies but I will write it and see if anyone agrees. Is it possible that Jane didn’t see Adele as a woman yet? But was viewing her as a child? Children of this time were often to be seen and not heard. They were expected to be obedient. Jane was ironed out as a child, why not Adele? I’m not saying it’s right. It could be she saw her pupil as not one to have those rights that she felt she should have.

[@kitsolo9]

Dr. Cox. Thank you this attention to Charlotte Bronte but how can you ignore Villette? Dare I hope that one fine morning I will visit KZbin and find that you have done a Close Reading of Villette, the most underrated, unrecognized, and uncelebrated of works? Please give me hope! Bless you!

[@benedictcowell6547]

The view you take of the reIationship between AdeIe Varens and her governess sheds some Iight on her [CharIotte Brontë's attitude towards Anne's noveI 'Tenant of WiIdfeII HaII'. I find CharIotte's character enigmatic and inconsistent but I suspect that this enigma is a function of 'woman' on the moraI cusp of Victorian attitudes towards women. It is one of the ironies of CharIotte's criticism of Jane Austen, because in most of Jane Austen's works the quaIity of the woman's character is the attraction and why a Miss BingIey and a Mrs Eiton are comic characters. 'In 'ShirIey' we have a more defined view of CharIotte in one of the most eIoquent passages in aII her writing.'The Iast bIue stocking...'I think 'ShirIey' CharIotte' s work, and perhaps her retrospections on her two sisters. That it was entitIed 'ShirIey' is significant. One thought on EmiIy appears in 'The Beethoven Companion' {Faber and Faber} where CharIotte rearks on EmiIy pIayig Beethoven Sonatas. If EmiIy had ben Geran she might hvehad career as a soIoist Iike Cara Weick . CharIotte was very good when writing of her sisters. HeIen Burns' is bases on her sister Marie I think

[@kaie4629]

Thank you! For me, the story was magical and i had to think and analyze a lot. My heart was calmer when i got the result. Mr. Rochester character is like human, Adele's character is like a culture and Jane is like a holy spirit. They are related. Berta is like an evil spirit that pulls a person down a bad path. There are words in the Bible - if the eye and the hand tempt you to sin, cut it a away. Just a great story, love wins and saves.

[@kitsolo9]

Dearest fans of Jane Eyre, if you want to experience an even more wonderful work of Charlotte Bronte's, then read Villette. I am on a one woman mission to encourage the reading and analysis of this masterpiece so please give it a shot. Trust me. You won't regret it! Or you might regret it. But you'll never forget it!

[@nicholasjohnfranklin7397]

Doesn't some of the apparent contradiction evaporate if we distinguish between the individual's life strategy and an aim to transform society and make it more egalitarian? Jane Eyre has learned the hard way that self-control is necessary to survive in patriarchal Victorian society, especially as an outsider (in this case an orphan). This is a valuable lesson that can be benevolently taught to Adele. Idealism and a belief in social transformation are all very well, but for the powerless to negotiate power structures requires more strategic thinking than whimsical impulses. Impetuosity is a privilege reserved for gentlemen and perhaps ladies like Blanche Ingram in early Victorian society. It shouldn't be like that, but that is the reality.

[@ip6229]

I always wondered about the "mad woman in the attic". I actually don't know if C.Bronte herself realized what she was doing when she created Bertha. At first, it seems that Rochester's wife is there simply as a plot's device - to keep the lovers apart. Yet, if we really think about it, she is more of a creature of Bronte's unconscious. Her laugh says so much more about women's view of their lot than the whole "I'm not a bird..." paragraph.

[@londongael]

Yes - she literally "created a monster" : ) I have found something to agree with in every comment here, even the ones that seem to offer opposing views, which perhaps reflects the rag-bag of contradictions that is "Jane Eyre", and which is brought out so clearly by considering these passages together. This comment nails it, though. On a conscious level, Bronte presents Jane as a kind of ideal - we are supposed to admire her as a woman, as a teacher, as a moral being. Sometimes, it's difficult to do this, partly because times have changed, partly because words like "docile" and "obedient" are quite triggering now, and partly because some aspects (like the Francophobia) simply are repugnant, in any age. BUT the sheer, unstoppable power of the novel is what makes it a book people still read, not just study in universities, and I'm sure Charlotte Bronte was not completely aware of what she was doing. Jane is the ego, Bertha the id - and her laugh as unsettling as it ever was.

[@floraposteschild4184]

What strikes me when I read the Adele passages is the damning with faint praise way Jane describes her: prattling, affectionate -- shallow. The shade! It seems Jane's initial impression of Adele as vain and femininely stupid is permanent, and she seeks no further. I think Bronte mentally grouped women into either intelligent soulful women like herself, and frivolous, mentally limited girly girls. It reminds me of a letter I read written by one of Charlotte Bronte's students, when the author herself was a governess. She describes CB as an unenthusiastic teacher, who obviously resented being away from her home and family. No one much regretted when she did go back home, which is a shame. The former student sounded like an intelligent woman, and someone CB could have formed a bond with. But apparently she was not interested.

[@lalaholland5929]

Adele is a flirt and sings and dances provocative songs. It takes a lot to 'stamp that out' and get her interested in learning. Adele never becomes hungry to learn as Jane has been since the beginning - reading Uncle's books. As a potential wife, Adele is learning how to be pliable - which was necessary. It is interesting to read Adele was like a governess to her children. But, at what level? Had she really improved that much?

[@floraposteschild4184]

@@lalaholland5929 Adele was an eight to 10 year old child (the text is vague) who enjoys pretty things and music and dancing in the only way she has been taught, not a scheming peer. No doubt if Jane were older -- she's only 18 herself, and has been reared in an atmosphere of suspicion of pretty, frivolous things -- she would have handled her job differently. As it is, she and Rochester (maybe her father!) view Adele with disgust and boredom, only a "miniature of her mother", and seemingly don't try to get to know her. Adele does get some good lines in about Rochester's dumb story of taking mademoiselle to the moon. My reaction was "who is this character, and where has she been hiding?" But she disappears from book, only to be next heard from suffering in a boarding school, just like Jane did. That'll teach her.

[@lacyflying6730]

I disagree. Jane's guardians didn't just want her to behave, they wanted to crush her spirit, that spirit which wanted to do more than her feminine lot allowed. It wasn't just her liveliness they disliked, it was her spirit. The first cruelty we see inflicted against Jane is for the simple sin of reading a book, i.e., educating herself, and I must add it was a very calm activity. Mr. Brocklehurst detested her unsubmissive spirit, but Jane also did well under the kind tutledge of Miss Temple, whom she wanted to please. There is nothing wrong with disciplining a child in how to act and how to think, and this is what I think Jane does with Adele. I see her maneuvering Adele away from her attention-seeking "freaks" into much more calm behavior. Jane herself is very calm, yet her spirit is not broken (quite an accomplishment having been at Lowood). I don't see her doing anything with Adele to break her spirit. In fact, I think Adele is not a very intelligent person and has very little spirit of her own, but perhaps that is because it is not important to the story.

[@zappababe8577]

In Jane Eyre's defence, some of what Adele had been taught was not appropriate for her age. Her "little freaks" might have included singing songs about romantic love, and even more immoral topics, which it was only the duty of a responsible teacher to discourage. Particularly bearing in mind Adele's insecure position in society - being in the company of high-born people, whilst she herself was of illegitimate birth. Therefore, it was perhaps even more necessary for Adele not to behave in an immoral way, if she was to succeed in the society in which she had been raised.

[@thehussarsjacobitess85]

I don't see how anyone, regardless of how much he/she enjoys the plot, can defend Bronte as some sort of model moralist. She was virtually xenophobic in her judgement of other cultures, religiously self-righteous, and unsympathetic towards those with different temperaments (was poor, isolated Sophie ever treated as anything better than a piece of furniture?). Still, one could say that Bronte was too miserable in her personal life to have wide-ranging sympathies. Culture shock and personal misery could have coloured her perception of the French. It just shows that if one is looking for moral leaders amongst storytellers, then one must prepare to be disappointed.

[@TheEntilza]

Yup, women often do that to other women. More often than men, sometimes.

[@veeholmes633]

Brilliant discussion 😊

[@lalaholland5929]

Why does Jane return to Rochester? Yes, she feels the tug on that cord between them & his anguish. But, what if he had still been married? What did she think she could do? Was her financial affluence enough now? Would she now defy the convention of marriage that Rochester had spoken about? Was she now strong enough to be only a companion?

[@barbaramartinetti]

Your hair looks very good with that blunt cut.

[@rsmith4339]

well done ! Then as now , the only obstacle to the liberation of the millions in silent revolt are the greater number unwillling to forego their entitlements . Being an angel it turns out is very constraining .

[@stevewloo]

Does not every teacher want docility and obedience from their student, whether that pupil is a male or female? I have read over the passage about Adele which you are presenting to us, but I substituted "he" instead of "she". If Adele had been Alphonse, "spoilt and indulged," wouldn't Jane Eyre's wish have been the same, to make HIM forget HIS little freaks and become obedient and teachable? We need only look at Dotheboys Hall in Nicholas Nickleby, or any other school in Charles Dickens' work, to know that boys were also expected to be complacent and obedient in mid-19th Century England, although I do admit that games and sports were encouraged in a boy's education. I don't think this passage downplays Brontë's admirable feminist outlook. It simply presents Adele as a general person (not necessarily a girl) who needed to learn better social manners. And later we learn that Jane Eyre encouraged Adele to be out in the fresh air, to go for walks and play games, and not remain indoors all the time. Indeed I think that was part of Jane's method of improving her charge, by not keeping her confined as another Victorian governess might have done who wanted a girl to conform to the ideas of what a woman should be. Rather Jane encouraged fresh air and physical activity.

[@martinajohnson]

I think "Jane Eyre" (the novel) is full of these kinds of contradictions, which is what makes it both a frustrating and fascinating read for me. I described it to a friend once as a book that wants to be feminist, but isn't quite there yet -- which I understand is perfectly appropriate for the time period, or even ahead of its time, but that doesn't mean it can't generate frustration in a contemporary reader!

[@jrpipik]

At around 6:00 - you doubtless mean infinitely more benevolent, and malevolent is a slip.

[@cate1657]

Like all women at any time in history in the Western world, including the current period, Jane Eyre lives surrounded by a milieu which, by the 20th century, is called "the patriarchy." This means that it is a carefully-guarded system in which only men are allowed to create the order of the established world in which both men & women live: this would include the mores & cultural "rules" to be followed by both genders (emphasizing that the two sexes remain separate in opportunity); all of the laws, political structures, educational opportunities by which disallowed women were intentionally kept from having ability for serious preparation for professional lives--and self-sufficiency financially; surrounded by religious teachings that are all male-centered & that dictated human behavior based on sex; the arrangement of all of society that prescribed women as the only one of the two sexes who is expected to be the male "help-meet" by marrying & attending to the household & the bearing of his children, all without any monetary payment for her labors or social gain by her doing so. This context is crucial to understanding WHY Jane Eyre was so caught in the system of her time and how very extraordinary that she pushed against a thousands-year-old arrangement of female oppression in the patriarchal system. Her work opened the way for future generations to speak to and act on the possibilities that could be found in the female imagination.

[@bofhzerozero777]

Did I mishear you say that as a governess, Jane was infinitely more “malevolent” than the people tormenting her as a child? You must have meant more benevolent. Or I misheard.

[@paisleyjane9606]

It's important to remember that Adele is, besides being a female, also a child. No matter the gender, a child probably needs to be guided toward rational thinking and civilized behavior.

[@EvBarney]

Well done, Dr. Cox. Thank you. You left me with passages from both Up from the Pedestal, and Wide Sargasso Sea in my mind.

[@kristina-insitu2523]

Some women still "collude" in their own oppression, I think. If some woman consciously or unconsciously have their emotional needs met by protecting authority because authority rewards them or salves an anxiety, then protection is the order of the day. For what ever reasons, some women are agents of their own and others oppression. Perhaps one woman's oppression is another woman's liberty. Women's behavior in a patriarchy is always fascinating. Although humans as a species, I believe, are inherently oppressive. Too cynical?

[@amybee40]

If you equate protection with repression, then yes, a little too cynical.

[@rmarkread3750]

In my comment, please read "victimized " for "marginalized " and "harsh" for "intense. " I think that is more usually the case.

[@TheHappychickadee]

Yes she is!!!

[@yezdnil]

I think Charlotte Bronte's class snobbishness and xenophobia has to be taken into consideration. Equal treatment, independence, etc., are all right for nice, well-prncipled, middle-class women like Jane Eyre, but not for the lowly born illegitimate daughter of a French opera dancer. Indeed, nor for working-class mill workers in the North Midlands. I love Jane Eyre but it is a novel of its time. The classicism and jingoism are overt in the novel.

[@nml1930]

I think Jane is an adult helping a child. I don’t think it has anything to do with feminism.

[@sharonvass8700]

Don't make the mistake that women participated in subjugation subconsciously. often people are perfectly aware of their position condition and the subjugation.perhaps Jane teaches Adele to be more obliging so she will have a happier more peaful life.Rebellion is honourable but often pointless if women had so little power then power is what they lacked.In my opinion grown ups very seldom act subconsciously they just do what is best for themselves

[@carolynmorrow9774]

From Ohio USA 🇺🇸

[@stevenlight5006]

I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours .Dr.Cox.

[@xaviercrain7336]

You must obviously think more highly of it than Virginia Woolf

[@MimiB77]

I always took her description of Adele as the usual English snobbery against the French, as she writes how they are less disciplined and have supposedly less ability for critical thinking.

[@OstblockLatina]

Welp, seems to me Jane Eyre is yet another person with double standards: she doesn't care and doesn't want to have to please others as a woman, but she likes to be pleased by other women (or in this case, her female pupil) herself. She applies feminism to herself, but not to other women. You know, just like the Suffragettes who stemmed from privileged classes and really only battled for equal rights for women from their social circles, but didn't mind mistreatment and discrimination of the women born into lower social classes. More than that, they often mistreated and discriminated them themselves. Another question is whether Jane Eyre could really afford to not be conditioning Adele the way she did as her Governess. If she refused to do it and it came to the attention of Mr. Rochester that she is not developing desired traits of character and behaviours, Jane Eyre would just be fired without good references and ended up on the street. So yeah, she couldn't really afford to be consistent and to act according to her views. In the end, money and status are really what defines your actions. And if sb without money fails to acknowledge it, they end up really poorly in this world. But then again, let's not forget that Bertha also had money, and a plenty of it, but the law still stood on her husband's side and allowed him to use and abuse her, and when she didn't act docile and pliable to him while he was tormenting and betraying her, it allowed him to take everything she ever had from her, have her break down emotionally and then lock her up under the accusation of madness, eventually causing her to go mad as well. BTW., if we're to believe the period literature, it was a common practice of married men in those times to get rid of their wives they didn't want anymore or who they were in conflict with this way - accusing them of madness and sending them to mental asylums.

[@CloudslnMyCoffee]

I never viewed Jane Eyre as feminist as it always angered me that the book seemed to say that Jane and Mr Rochester are only on the same level and thus able to be married after he had been brought down and disfigured (to say nothing of the wife he hid away)

[@renatekeil4738]

That is exactly why I cannot admire Charlotte very much as a writer. Unreal characters also, her sister Emily even worse. I prefer Anne.