Charlotte NC Just Bought a Railroad: What's Next?

[@TransitTangents]

It was fun to dive into transit in Charlotte! If you are new to the channel, consider subscribing and letting us know what you'd like to see next! We also have several [Your City] In a Day Using Only Public Transit in the works now! Want to support the show? Check out our newly launched Patreon: www.patreon.com/TransitTangents

[@Zamath100]

The lynx red line is open in 2029

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

You should focus on the Piedmont service which removes thousands of cars from I-85 every day, the benefits are numerous, and it isn't significantly supported by the state. If it wasn't solvent, it wouldn't be in operation.----I hope Charlotte succeeds in expanding its rail network, but for most cities, they have to be heavily subsidized. In Atlanta, residents pay an extra 1.5% sales tax on everything to fund Marta's daily operations. Even with a small amount of state support and 200,000 daily riders, the fare revenue isn't nearly enough to keep the system running. Average citizens like me chip in $400+ per year to fund Marta plus fares if we use it.-----NC just received $1.1 billion to resurrect S-line from Raleigh to Richmond/D.C. to ultimately connect NC to the Northeast corridor rail service. The S-line beelines to Richmond shaving off 1 hr. from existing Amtrak service. Track will be re-laid on 100 miles of the S-line. The $1.1 billion will complete just 15 miles from Raleigh northward, but commuter service to suburb Wake Forest will be possible upon its completion in a few years.

[@scpatl4now]

Charlotte's problem is that the state is actively antagonistic to any rail infrastructure being built. The speaker of the NC house said...and I quote "to support the plan, it needs to be focused on road capacity.”. This was in response to Charlotte's 13.5 billion expansion plan. This is what is holding up any new routes. This matters because the city is not allowed to raise it's local sales tax without state approval. This purchase for the red line also needs state approval for the 1 cent sales tax to go to the voters for approval and that isn't a given. The draft legislation (for the sales tax) caps spending on light rail, commuter rail and streetcar projects at 40% of the new sales tax revenue. Spending on buses - including bus rapid transit, micro-transit and mobility hubs - would be capped at 20% of revenue, leaving 40% of the new money for roads in an effort to appease Republican state legislators. Here in Georgia we don't get anything from the state for MARTA, but at least they don't block progress.

[@erikgustafson9319]

A bit of a stretch considering the piedmont service

[@scpatl4now]

@@erikgustafson9319 First of all,the Piedmont Service is a joint operation between Amtrak and NCDOT that well predates not only any rail in Charlotte but also predates current GOP control in NC. In addition, the expansion of service came from a Federal grant, not state money, so it really has very little to do with the problems I laid out in my comment

[@TransitTangents]

We can probably one up you with the state governments thoughts on rail from here in Texas haha... Thanks for watching! -Louis

[@scpatl4now]

@@TransitTangents Makes Georgia seem not so bad 🤣

[@marcamorello2803]

Republicans in government (and nimby dems) are a bane to progress…

[@ravenfan1509]

Before Covid, the blue line ran at 7 minute intervals all day. With staffing issues, they’ve struggled with the frequency ever since. Now they’re hoping to run 12 minute intervals during peak hours and 15 minutes during off peak rather than the current 20 minute intervals

[@TransitTangents]

Wow! 7 minutes would have been amazing.

[@rodbal12]

@@TransitTangentsin 2022 Charlotte’s light rail had a derailment. It was later discovered to be caused by a bad bearing that has since been recalled by Siemens. In January of this year they had to pull 22 of the 42 Siemens S70 trams from service. Hopefully once Siemens fix the issue they can start running them for frequently.

[@ix830]

There's lot to learn from Charlotte. There were some earlier success but also a series of missteps that dampened some of that momentum. In some ways, Charlotte mirrors some of the challenges of light rail systems in Dallas and Houston -- where the city has lots of geographic area and lots of suburban development. That said, I'm excited for the O-Line and the Gateway Station (long overdue) and pushing transit forward in NC.

[@blayworld]

The importance of the Silver Line is to connect the airport to the city. Great video!

[@chukaman]

thank you for doing this episode. As someone who lives in Charlotte, I have to say that they are trying to go back in time where public transportation is paramount to build a city. Some of their biggest challenges are funding and more importantly, getting the states legislator to leave the cityalone when the city wants to expand rail. Most times in North Carolina, the state legislator refuses to allow for cities to plan rail lines. The same thing happened in the triangle area. Which needs a train/inner rail between the cities.

[@georgetilley9529]

Thank you for doing this. Many of the comments go to the heart of the problem, our state legislature. (An examination of our state government and its impact on transit would be helpful.) I lived in NYC. We moved here a year ago. I insisted that we live near light rail. (I hate driving.) We live in Optimist Park across from the Blue Line. This area is growing rapidly. I think in part due to the light rail. We do need a grocery store with a pharmacy. I would not need a car. Last night we went to the soccer game. The platform was dangerously crowded at Brooklyn Village station. The frequency of trains needs increasing on weekends especially when there are major functions going on uptown. I think if transit was more available in terms of frequency and areas that people would leave their cars. I remember going to a Panthers game last year and an elderly woman told me that it was so much better taking the train than driving and finding parking. Charlotte is growing fast. The city needs the support of the federal and state governments to grow in a way that protects the environment and makes living here so much more fun. I really do appreciate your informative video. Keep up the good work.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

If you are new to NC, you may not realize how dispersed the population is. The state tries to be fair to taxpayers in all 100 counties. NC operates the nation's 2nd largest ferry system on the coast and maintains over 80,000 miles of roads, 2nd only to Texas. Hurricanes have caused billions in damage over the years too.---All transportation funding is allocated based on delivering the most benefit to the most NC citizens. 8 million North Carolineans live outside the Charlotte region, and regional rail projects cost a lot and benefit a limited number of citizens.----That said the intrastate rail service between Raleigh and Charlotte is a huge success and is solvent. NC received $600 million during Obama's terms to upgrade the rail infrastructure and recently received about $1.1 billion for higher speed rail from Raleigh towards Richmond/D.C.

[@Zero-Gravity-Ind]

Going to the Raleigh station and then the Charlotte station is a shock lol. The regional rail in NC is pretty solid, especially for a southern state. But moving in the right direction.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

The $600 million Obama rail grant was used to upgrade track, renovate Union Station in Raleigh, and Charlotte has/will have a freight terminal at its end.

[@triciahowie3653]

Native Charlottian here. I vote more transit and less toll roads. It took us like 20 years longer than projected to complete the outer loop. 485. Now it is insufficient and they want to make toll lanes. How does this strategy impact transit planning in your opinion?

[@zacklawrence3069]

I live in Charlotte and enjoy using the blue line but the frequency is frustrating. Later at night they drop frequency to every 30 minutes meaning you have to plan you night around making sure you can get home. Recently I went out with friends and saw it was changed to a 40 minute frequency without any warning. We also do not have any direct connections from the blue line to the airport. There is a bus (not BRT) that goes from Charlotte Transportation Center to the airport but this bus makes frequent stops between these 2 destinations. The silver line is going to fix this issue. Our state legislators are not even allowing us to vote on if we want to increase our sales tax to fund these projects. Most Charlotteans would probably vote in favor.

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for the context! Yeah the night frequency sounds terrible. Definitely potential for the system as a whole though. If you have future ideas for Charlotte content let us know or reach out via email/social media! Always good to have some local connections! Thanks for watching. -Louis

[@triciahowie3653]

Raleigh calls us the great state of Mecklenburg. We are a Blue suburban area with a super majority of MAGA In the State Legislature. We have to get over that conflict and work together for our State.

[@chriswallace5339]

Charlotte local and urbanist here! Love the video, you hit right on the money with a lot of this! Is there any chance you guys would be interested in doing a follow-up with some local input? I live along the O-Line and have been studying/advocating for the Red Line for years. I'd love to talk about some of the history there and what our city is trying to achieve going forward.

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for reaching out! Shoot us an email [e-mail] It would be great to do a follow up in the future. I see the potential for a visit to Charlotte in the next few months to do a video similar to what we have done in Salt Lake City, San Antonio or New Orleans, etc... Thanks for watching. -Louis

[@2HusbandsInCharlotte]

The Blue line definitely came before the development. The Southend area was mostly closed factories and mills. Now it's all bars restaurants and apartments, as well as mixed use. All of this development is spreading South btw, creating a whole new area called LoSo or Lower Southend.

[@GeoMeridium]

Cool video! Aside from the proposed LRT station, I also hope they add an Amtrak/inter-city station at the airport (like Brightline built at Orlando). Although many don't realize it, Charlotte's Airport receives as much passenger traffic as major hubs like Barcelona and Shanghai Pudong. The railroad tracks by the airport are already triple tracked and used by Amtrak (part of the proposed Southeast HSR corridor) and are only a half mile from most of the terminals. I bet a station there could drive a lot of ridership and revenue for passenger rail in the southeastern US, and potentially get some cars off the road in the process.

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for watching! We'll have to take a look at that! -Louis

[@qjtvaddict]

And more rail to more places.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Those lines should have NC Train, Amtrak and the Silver Line. There needs to be an automated circulator from that line to the terminal that should also go to the parking decks to eliminate the heavy use of buses to parking in Charlotte.

[@EoinCondon]

Charlotte resident & new subscriber saying thank you for covering this! I'm pretty excited about it for many of the reasons you mentioned. - your take on the Gold Line is spot on...when there is something going on in Uptown (ie downtown) and people would benefit most from it, the traffic is so bad that you can walk faster - the idea to remove the bottom section of the I-277 loop is interesting (they'd definitely have to reconfigure the northern section to handle the traffic trying to get to 74) as it probably would cause a huge amount of development in what feels like a dead zone the northern part of South End (just south of the highway). - the silver line (if it were to happen) could alleviate a lot of congestion if it done correctly...74 which it would run mostly along is a parking lot during rush hour

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for watching! My comment on removing the highway is from spending too much time with a lot of the ReThink 35 organizers here in Austin haha! But it does seem unnecessary to have a full ring around downtown... It always makes for poor connectivity in and out of downtown for anyone on foot or on a bike! It was fun looking into Charlotte though! It's now on our radar for a visit or at least to keep an eye on these projects as they progress. -Louis

[@DVeck89]

When I moved to Charlotte 12 years ago I had an apartment that was walkable to a light rail station. It was great not having to drive to work uptown and pay for parking. The blue line definitely spurred development around it but also gentrification. South Blvd was a little rough before the light rail but now it’s swung too far the other way with nothing but new super expensive apartments close to it. The apartment I had back then has at least doubled in price now. Rents in CLT have skyrocketed regardless though. The silver line is a good start but not perfect. It won’t go all the way to the airport terminal. A short bus connection will still be necessary. And on the other end, it was originally going to go all the way to Matthews but it looks like they’re cutting back there too. Really it should go all the way to Monroe. Lot of people commute from out that way to uptown. But NC has been investing heavily in toll lanes on 77, 74, and soon 485 and the feeling seems to be that they don’t want to take away from potential toll revenue by giving people other transit options. I’m surprised Charlotte is actually able to make progress on the red line as that will directly compete with the I-77 toll lanes which contractually require a certain amount of usage or the state will have to pay a bunch of money. That whole project was a boondoggle.

[@sajk1082]

I wish they would have approved the the line going from downtown to Matthews, NC

[@jameshoren3034]

The Blue Line spurred the development. The areas around the stations have gone from "bad areas of town" to high rent, apartment clusters. With our population rising 50,000 people per year, we need public transport. The interstates used to be easy to use, now it's Atlanta at rush hour. They are adding toll lanes, they won't do anything.

[@AlexWohlbruck]

came here to say this. none of that existed before the light rail. south end was previously an industrial area serviced by freight tracks

[@cotywebb4604]

Hopefully the redline is well executed. The northern suburbs could be instrumental in convincing Raleigh that rail needs investment. There's not a lot of room to expand 77 or Statesville Rd and traffic can be so bad in both directions at rush hour that there's s lot of opportunity to garner support for the entire system.

[@TransitTangents]

Fingers crossed for you all! Thanks for watching.

[@akurbyburby]

'piedmont' 'ralley' 'carolynans' bro was only cautious when he was correct

[@TransitTangents]

Lol

[@steve-4045]

I took the Crescent from Charlotte to New Orleans and back at the end of that week in 2008. I had a roomette. It was a lot of fun. I have taken the Carolinian all the way to NYC and once to Philadelphia. Air is faster, of course. I did those trips with friends, so the train ride was a social occasion. I take it to the DC area about once a year. I catch it Kannapolis, so much more convenient than the drive to the airport. The total time from leaving home to arrival in Alexandria is not that much different from flying, and the train is certainly more comfortable and doesn’t have the TSA hassle. I do occasional day trips to Raleigh with different friends.

[@Skeet284]

I don't ever think I have ever seen a podcast that is objectively 20 years too late. The Golden Era of CATS was in the aughts I tend to believe we are in era of service efficiencies. Outside of the Red Line where it's conception goes back to when the Gold and Blue Line were built.

[@blayworld]

Anywhere you would want to go in Charlotte is along the Blue Line, aside from Plaza Midwood which you can kind of access via the Gold Line. CLT has too many cars, single family homes close to uptown, and parking lots.

[@daniellewis1789]

The Piedmont is kind of halfway to backdoor commuter rail, for Charlotte, Greensboro, Durham, Cary, Raleigh, and soon to be Wake Forest. If they can pump up the frequency (round trip 5 is coming fairly soon, additional frequencies are uncertain and might require additional trackwork. It's not a substitute for a commuter rail system but it's better than anything else NC has managed to build.

[@cotywebb4604]

The state is actively improving and removing at grade crossings. I hope that leads to eventually real regional rail between Charlotte and Raleigh and all the other cities and towns between

[@SeabYT]

The southern end of the streetcar also runs sort of close to the 9 Central Ave bus which runs every 10 minutes and is typically faster. So many students including myself would just rather take that from the Community College to the Transportation Center. The streetcar runs every 10 minutes now and for a while it was running every 30 minutes which is obviously abysmal considering it would get delayed regularly cause of traffic or cars blocking it.

[@emyfire]

Surprised there was no mention of the Silver Line.

[@TransitTangents]

We lightly mentioned it at the very end. Leaving some room to revisit Charlotte in a future episode you could say 😅. We'd love to make it out in person soon! Thanks for watching.

[@AL5520]

I really enjoy your weekly video/podcast. You have great chemistry, you're much better with research and it's just fun, and informative. Just one thing others me. Even if it's not your intention you keep complaining on the bad "regional" connection to San Antonio but you don't have a regional connection. It only exist as part of Amtrak's Texas Eagle long distance line. Amtrak would love to operate a better and more frequent regional line but it's not allowed to do this as federal law only allows Amtrak to operate on it's own lines that are longer than 750 mi. Any shorter local line must be with the collaboration an financing of the states and Texas does not want to invest in rail transit. In NC the two existing lines (Carolinian and Piedmont) are operated as a partnership with NCDOT.

[@TransitTangents]

You will like next weeks episode (Should be next week, if not the following week)! We have an interview with someone directly involved in the conversations about real passenger rail between Austin and Sant Antonio and beyond. Excited to record that later this week. Thanks for watching! -Louis

[@AL5520]

@@TransitTangents Pete Buttigieg? 😁

[@TransitTangents]

Lol, despite all of Chris's attempts not yet.... Open invite though of course haha

[@shopdog831]

I feel like this would be better serviced by a heavy rail metro than a light rail metro. The line is well suited for it and it would be hard to retrofit if they went with light rail first

[@TransitTangents]

It looks like the O line (Red Line) would be heavy rail, unless you are talking about something else we mentioned. Thanks for watching!

[@MichaelWilliams-lr4mb]

I just moved from Charlotte to Salt Lake City a couple of months ago. But CATS in Charlotte is plagued with quite a few issues.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Have you considered doing a video on transportation poverty?

[@ThePlecoPal]

American City does transit somewhat competently? Am I dreaming?

[@nose10620]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@bennyjenkins5954]

I’m happy that more public transport is being built but very disappointed in the city council and state government due to the fact that the silver line is extremely likely to get postponed indefinitely/canceled. Considering that the people of east Charlotte will have to pay the extra tax and get nothing more than extra buses while the city is building redline stations in different counties who pay no taxes whatsoever to the project. It’s even worse that the red line primarily serves a demographic that elects the anti public transport politicians into office and probably won’t even use the commuter rail in the first place. I might’ve bought the city’s excuse of lack of funds but just a few months ago they literally gave hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire so he could remodel his football stadium.

[@530mnorman]

I live in Charlotte and I'm excited for the red line getting approved. Your video incorrectly states though that the existing blue line will connect to the new Gateway Station and red line. This isn't the case, and the connectivity between red and blue will not be practical. I'm concerned also that the red line won't be a great commuter option for people who live in the northern suburbs coming down to work in Charlotte. The trek from Gateway station to the majority of the office buildings in Charlotte will be a turn off for most of those people. I don't think that trip will be fast enough to motivate a significant number to give up their cars when they can just pay $5 and take the express lane on I77. Hopefully they can find a solution to the last mile problem on both sides of the route.

[@TransitTangents]

Right, a connection via gold would be slow. It seems like there may be potential for a connection to the blue line with the red line north of downtown near the existing 36th street station on the blue line. If you moved that station slightly south and put a red line station in the same area it could actually make for a pretty nice connection and transit hub north as well. That's just me scrolling on google maps though and not in any plan I have seen to be clear haha... Thanks for watching. -Louis

[@530mnorman]

@@TransitTangents I live a block from the 36th St station. It doesn't sound like a stop on the red line is planned for right here, but there might be one at Sugar Creek one stop up which might work as a connection but I haven't heard anything official about it yet.

[@JohnBlaylock01]

Just an FYI the development is following the rail trail and this doesn't really show the area you have to go through that's homeless trying to get to uptown Charlotte on this railway area it's kind of shady it's very shady

[@TheRandCrews]

Seeing some news reels that the Red Line was either commuter or light rail, wished it was light rail with it being more “frequent” than commuter rail and having a train communality for CATS. I believe Blue Line is similar in length as the Red Line, can probably elevate some sections for double tracking or whatever, but that will just make things more expensive. If at least it is commuter rail they should get high floor carriages so that there is level boarding when it also share platforms and tracks to Gateway Station with like Amtrak.

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for watching! Red line looks to be a bit longer, but the density is definitely less than what is around the blue line (at least for now). Always potential to increase service in the future. -Louis

[@chriswallace5339]

Light rail, as a vehicle and track type, can't go nearly as fast as needed for distances like this. The plan for the Red Line has been for high-floor, heavy rail since the 90's, targeting a speed of 90mph+. If you've ever taken the trains in the Northeastern US, this will resemble that far more than the Blue or Gold Lines

[@SquiggleSquared]

build it and they will come. The silver line cannot come soon enough! The city has been actively dragging their feet on that bus line on independence as well. Every time I drive on that piece of crap road, just wishing I can take some transit into the city.

[@lonzeo]

Getting rid of the southern half of 277??!?!? You’d be crazy.

[@dlmac]

More unjustified taxes. that's what.

[@TransitTangents]

Wait until you hear how much highways are subsidized! And no, gas taxes and car registrations don't even come close. -Louis

[@dlmac]

@@TransitTangents Poor planning now and in the past is not an excuse to raise our taxes. Taxes always go up, and we never hold those who spend our money accountable. Maybe we should be asking why gas tax and car registrations don't come close? What model would you look to in the USA that has already implemented this successfully?

[@SquiggleSquared]

@@dlmac everybody tax the crap out of this guy's car use specifically!

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Unlike roads that magically pay for themselves? 🤣😂

[@dlmac]

@@andrewdiamond2697 That is what the current tax is for. I am talking about raising taxes. If you can't do it with the current tax you are doing it wrong.

[@WilConquer]

The system would be even more efficient if it was nore mid transit non right away so as not to interefere with street traffic. City planners have to stop taking the cheap route so as to properly accommodate growth.

[@tomfoogle6403]

Hello! Charlotte here. The city is not heading a good direction. Lots of people being forced to leave, lots of new homeless issues, retired people can’t afford to live, it’s not a good “upgrade”. It needs a whole lot of work!

[@TheBaldr]

Charlotte is a weird City as far as development goes the I-277 belt really constricted the the core of the city and development out past it has been slow. It is 1/5th the size of developed core like Atlanta. Which is blessing for traffic which doesn't get as major congestion as other cities, but it also means the city is more spread out. Corporations are just as likely to go to Southpark, Ballentyne, University City, Matthews, Hunterssville instead of Uptown. With this spread it makes public transportation planning a nightmare. There is no density to economically feasibility sustain such investments as there would be in other cities where there are more centrally located corporate hub.

[@Kudian]

Charlotte local/Carolinian (Care-Oh-Lin-E-in) here. There's a lot of issues with the Lynx/CATS system in Charlotte. For one, the local government is cheap. Plans keep getting delayed because the local government isn't willing to spend more money to make the efficient routes. That's how you get stuff like the Gold Line, which could have been very good had they given signal priority, or give the line it's own dedicated section. Another part is where the stations go. Many of the stations, especially for the Blue line, don't really see a lot of usage throughout the day. This causes the ride time to be extended longer than it should. Would they eliminate some stops and focus on bus connections in the outer-skirts of the area, it would help decrease the ride time. The newer North East section connecting to UNCC actually does this well. There's less stops the further out you go, decreasing the amount of time you aren't moving. Another big issue is the build time for these projects. It takes FOREVER for anything to get built regarding transportation. The timeline they give is never the true time to built. Add a couple years, a decade, sometimes more, and that's more realistic. While I don't know what causes it, I do know that it causes the locals to become skeptical of the project even getting completed because things never get finished on time. I would LOVE for the Charlotte transportation system to get better, and it truly has the potential. The local leaders, however, need to accept that the city is growing, and need to plan ahead more. It's an issue that's been around for forever (just look at Charlotte Douglas International Airport). Once the local government is willing to put the money into it, plan it properly, and get it completed quickly, will we finally have a somewhat decent transportation system

[@jjsand3479]

They need to have trains going east and west bound. A lot of people dont have cars there. Having a train go to places where people have cars is crazy.😂😂 The working class takes trains nog people in hunstersville and Cornelius😂.

[@ZackScriven]

Thank you for the Shout out for the Rio Grande Plan again! 🚉

[@TransitTangents]

Thanks for the support!

[@triciahowie3653]

Native Charlottian here. I vote more transit and less toll roads. It took us like 20 years longer than projected to complete the outer loop. 485. Now it is insufficient and they want to make toll lanes. How does this strategy impact transit planning in your opinion?