Charming (Musical Hell Review # 125)

[@Talisguy]

If they went the route of Charming desperately trying to avoid being charming only for everything he does to wind up sweeping all the ladies off their feet anyway, the jokes would have written themselves. Especially if they also had him completely bomb whenever he actually *tried* to turn on the charm, like in his first scene with Lenore (after all, when you're blessed with supernatural charm, you don't need to develop any actual social skills.)

[@Anynom]

I was just about to say the same thing. That would have been a fun bit rather than play on him enjoying leading all these women on and such. A lothario who doesn't grasp how well he comes off is a fun idea.

[@Talisguy]

@@Anynom I was thinking of taking it further than him not knowing how he came across. It would be more like...Final Destination only without the death, or the Falling with Style sequence in Toy Story. He just succeeds with the ladies no matter what he does, probability be damned, no matter how hard he tries to fail. Unless he actually tries to succeed, in which case he's hopeless. He'd see a couple walking down the street, run across the road to avoid them so he didn't accidentally seduce the woman away from her boyfriend, and it would set off a ridiculous series of accidents that would somehow end with the woman in his arms and a rose in his teeth. He has daily meet cutes because every attempt to avoid talking to a visiting queen causes him to crash into another woman in a contrived, cutesy manner. He tries wearing the ugliest clothes possible, but they somehow *always* look good on him no matter how garish they are. It would show Charming actively resisting the curse - thus making him easier to root for - it'd be a lot funnier, and it even sidesteps some of the issues around Lenore: he's taken with her immediately, and because he's actually *trying* to flirt with her, and not relying on his supernatural charm, all his attempts fall completely flat. He's a lovestruck dork completely unable to spit it out, and this behaviour being so at odds with his playboy reputation would allow you to explore Charming and Lenore's relationship in a more interesting way. It also means you don't have to curse her or find a loophole for his charm curse to explain why she isn't attracted to him.

[@AlexanderBlues1228]

What would have made for a much more interesting story would be to have Charming live a cloistered life in an all-male environment like a monastery. Making him a reluctant protagonist who is actively resisting the Call to Adventure would have made him more sympathetic.

[@ImaNerdANDaGeek]

I once played a visual novel game called the Cinderella Phenomenon and it had a lot of people with fairy tale curses. One of the curses was a Prince that was cursed so every women would think he was the most hansom man to exist and fall for him immediately, the work around he discovered was that it only worked if they knew he was a man, so he spent most of his time disguised as a woman.

[@evermore-1574]

Seeing this in my cue for Musical Hell made me genuinely so disappointed. I was really hoping the plot was going to be what you described. Now to see it's anything but, I hope another studio gives it a go.

[@shepherdaaron9683]

This “She’s immune to his charm, somehow” thing would hav even better if they just made this a buddy comedy between a straight guy and a lesbian

[@Stargazer_Ley]

I'd have liked the film to actually subvert the True Love thing and make it like platonic love or something, like they did with Frozen. It's all well and good to do that with family but I want to see it done with a nonrelated, nonromantic man and woman. Turn it from a kiss to a sign of affection or maybe she gives him CPR and that counts. I don't really care, just show that he looks beyond the idea marriage. Maybe then he's grown as a person able to find a romantic partner and the Lenora character ends up as his best man or whatever.

[@MissCaraMint]

Yeah, and then the ending is just that the find the prince’s mom who gives him a kiss on the cheek, or maybe his dad for once tells him he loves him. Then the princesses are released from the effects of the curse and it turns out that they are sweet caring girls, who were just twisted by the curse.

[@rainyrouge5123]

Or straight person and aromantic person

[@morinomajou]

I’ve always thought the easiest way to work around the ‘true love’s kiss’ thing was just to get them a puppy. Look me in the eyes and tell me the loyalty of a pet you grew up with isn’t the truest love there is haha.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@morinomajou I’m pretty sure that actually happened in the “Fables” comic. Sleeping beauty fell asleep, and the only thing that can wake her up is a true love’s kiss from a prince. Anyway there’s a the dog named Prince who comes by randomly. It’s kind of amazing.

[@Fluffkitscripts]

Come on, the fucking jokes write themselves here! Charming just discovered someone who’s immune and “So… you _don’t_ like me? Complete disdain?Not a single kernel of affection? You’re absolutely sure?” “THANK THE HEAVENS!” Followed by a half-minute of over-animated celebration

[@stephaniejenkins7822]

I would have *loved* to see this.

[@joshraid1550]

I think charming would be a much better movie if he had serious issues with intimacy from all this unwanted attention. Maybe he leans into it as a trauma response because it gives him a sense of control when he actually has none.

[@rogue7723]

Or maybe if the movie delved more into Phillipe not knowing whether people _actually liked him_ or it was just the work of the charm spell.

[@Kamechan98]

Okay, I really dislike the trope of turning classic princesses into Mean Girls in general, but why the HEAVEN would CINDERELLA be the leader of the mean girls? A poor, abused and neglected girl who’s whole thing is kindness, hard work and strength in the face of cruelty, who finally got a chance to escape her horrible family and SHE is turned a mean girl archetype? I honestly think the story would work better if all three of them were genuinely lovely people. It could work as a conflict for Felipe where he doesn’t have the heart to crush their hearts or something. Or at least make it even easier to hate him in this case. Why do women in these kinds of stories always have to be villains or mean girls or ‘not like other girls’ who have to learn that all they need is a man to be truly happy in their lives rather than independence and goals of your own?

[@ninavale.]

Cinderella is there bc she's a "Disney Princess" and in marketing she's always in her princess grab. That's(for me) the beginning and end of why she's there. She's one of the "classic" princesses.

[@princedonovaughn1182]

My guess it because the three og disney princesses often are treated as the land mark what what the Disney princesses are not to mention it's easier to directly parody them in design. Like you can make a frog princess parody but you can't name her Tiana but you can name a Cinderella parody Cinderella. I don't know I always feel like the criticism of them is also always surface level.

[@timothymclean]

> Why do women in these kinds of stories always have to be villains or mean girls or ‘not like other girls’ who have to learn that all they need is a man to be truly happy in their lives rather than independence and goals of your own? Well, first off it's pretty obvious that that's not what the people writing this movie were going for, since they openly mock several of those tropes in the dialogue. So if you want an actual answer, you need to look for something that would negatively influence how one perceives and writes women on a subconscious level, not something that one is necessarily intending or even conscious of. ... The answer is patriarchy, in case you couldn't guess. Or misogyny, if you don't like systemic critique.

[@colleen4ever]

I felt the same way about Cinderella! I don;t get it! Why is she acting like that?! There was an ep of Sabrina: The Teenage Witch who had her like that too!

[@colleen4ever]

@@timothymclean OR: Lifetime: Movie of the Week.

[@johnvinals7423]

You know, people forget this because of how it blew up so quickly and became a merchandising juggernaut, but the original “Shrek” was mostly just a quiet, subdued character piece about a lonely guy learning he deserves to be loved and accepted even though he doesn’t conform to what society says is beautiful. Also, can we talk about how Felipe is basically less good/less well done Naveen complete with Lenore as a cross between Flynn Rider and Tiana?

[@MusicalHell]

I did describe Philipe as "Prince Naveen without the comeuppance and character development" in the script but trimmed it out for time.

[@Martialartfruituser]

Wich ticks me off when I think about it, because Tiana also was a girl who wanted her own finical indpence and her own dreams and didn't get rid of them when she married. And 100% correct about Shrek. There is a reason I love watching the first two films.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@Martialartfruituser In fact, it’s Naveen who gives up his status as a Prince to be with her and donates his wealth to help her build her restaurant.

[@Martialartfruituser]

@@johnvinals7423 and yet another reason I love that movie

[@ericjanssen394]

Ah, the days twenty years ago, when I can remember being pilloried, publicly pariah'ed and excommunicated by the anti-Eisner/Disney Vatican, for my bold, heretical, Galileo-like stance that the Shrek movies were, in my words, "About as funny as an NBC sitcom character with a crutch". (E pur si muove...)

[@cutiepuppy4427]

I see this movie took the Prince Derek approach in how to offend women in five syllables or less.

[@ShadwehUmbrea]

Legendary.

[@catandrobbyflores]

Good old Rogers with the best one liner.

[@johndavies1170]

I know, this movie should write that particular book

[@questworldiangreenknight7455]

😂😂😂

[@alexjewett7455]

"Is beauty all that matters to you?" "What else is there?"

[@elizabetheowynbelle]

The fact that Philippe seems to thoroughly enjoy the curse is not only horrid writing (because that means there's no real conflict), but it makes Philippe feel like the lead character in a self-insert fanfic written by Gaston! Why couldn't the story have played out this way: Philippe, like any decent, right-thinking person, hates the curse and tries to mitigate it by downplaying his looks and retreating into introverted activities like reading and bird-watching. He somehow gets engaged to the 3 princesses and is desperately trying to fix it (because why would you want to be engaged to 3 different people you're not even in love with?). Then Philippe meets Lenore, who at first dismisses him as an easy target/nerd/wimp, but he's fascinated that she's immune to the curse. Blah, blah, blah, inciting incident, character building journey (hopefully less stupid this time), and they bond over their shared ability to TALK TO BIRDS, Philippe learns to break out of his shell and toughen up, Lenore sees Philippe in a different light, in addition to seeing how handsome he is (a twist on the Beautiful All Along trope, since it's almost never a dude), but obstacles ensue (again, hopefully less stupid this time), they break the curse, true love wins, the end. Just an outline, better writers than I can fill in the blanks, but maybe it can follow "Ella Enchanted"'s theme of taking charge of your life and proving you're stronger than any curse. I dunno, as long as there's a cohesive theme and genuine tension, not some gelatinous muck like this movie's screenplay!

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

“a self-insert fanfic written by Gaston!” Made me chuckle ngl 🤭 but I don’t think Gaston would write such a strong and crafty woman such as Lenore as the lead.

[@Treeeee2008]

People seem to forget that Shrek wasn't just an hour-and-a-half of raunchy jokes and pop-culture references, it had nuance, heart, and an actual story other than making fun of Disney tropes and fairy tales. It was about how not to judge a book by its cover, a very overdone theme, I know, but it still did it in a way that was well done and believable, and got you invested in the story and characters because you saw what they went through in the past to develop their current mindsets and how they evolved throughout the story. All of these imitators only saw the satirical edge and not any of the good writing that made the Shrek movies so well-loved, it's the biggest case of flanderization I've ever seen.

[@jbcatz5]

Shrek is basically what if the monster was the protagonist, and the royal kingdom the bad guys. Shrek 2 continues this with Harold and Fairy Godmother as the antagonists, Prince Charming working against the good guys in 2 and 3. The Shrek film is like an onion, it has layers.

[@Treeeee2008]

@@jbcatz5 music to my ears!

[@johnvinals7423]

@@jbcatz5 “Shrek” is also about how imperfections are what make life beautiful and how one of Farquaad’s big failings is trying to force the world to conform to his expectations by having his realm and his life follow the standard kingship tropes seen throughout fantasy while Shrek and Fiona both just want to live a normal life free from people’s judgments of them as an ogre and a princess respectively.

[@racheljackson4428]

exactly. the Director of Charming NEEDS TO WATCH SHREK 1 AND 2!

[@alexjewett7455]

​@@racheljackson4428they obviously did, they just didn't understand it.

[@masonallen3961]

If they wanted to make fun of fairy tale tropes they could point out how the hero falling in love with the heroine disguised as a man has obvious gay subtext. I know that’s been pointed out a lot on the internet but I’ve never seen a movie or other fairytale retelling point that out.

[@MusicalHell]

I mean the most obvious solution to the curse is "Prince falls in love with male or non-binary person," but good luck getting that past the pearl-clutchers...

[@miticaBEP07]

Technically he fell in love with an enby person, since Lovato is there. I take it above anything this movie may pull out.

[@penguinsrbirds2]

@@miticaBEP07 I thought Lovato changed her mind about being enby?

[@tsifirakiehl4250]

@penguinsrbirds2 They use both they/them and she/her pronouns now, so she’s still nonbinary. Nonbinary people can use multiple sets of pronouns.

[@vinx.9099]

even better if she'd been a lesbian and it turned into just a buddy comedy.

[@joemerl1145]

A few random thoughts: - The tribe of giant women was pretty racist, but weirdly, also the most interesting part of the movie. They're fulfilling the basic function of giants in fairy tales-dangerous but also potential holders of magical knowledge/items-while also being distinct and memorable. - Why is Felipe so useless? I mean, "Prince Charming" is supposed to be heroic, right? If nothing else, getting through Sleeping Beauty's thorns should have required some competence. - The ending acts like Lenore was cursed but that had never been established. - You could honestly cut the villain out. "Shrek" and "Beauty and the Beast" get away with establishing a curse in a throwaway line, and she doesn't affect the plot much.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

I agree. The giantesses weren’t just racist, though. They were sexist, too. Because *obviously* a female-led, male-free tribe where the women are strong and large must be barbaric and animalistic without a male to guide them, and they all fawn over the first man that they see, showing that they’re still weak, impressionable women, after all. Ya catch my drift?

[@heighbeut99]

ironically, there's already a very well-done deconstruction on the fairytale prince trope and the damage it's done. Revolutionary Girl Utena, anyone?

[@gracekim25]

Yes I’m aware

[@moonlightrobbery]

Revolutionary Girl Utena is a masterpiece for this reason and so many more.

[@Anynom]

22:30: Diva's screaming at ignoring such a blatant loophole to use is wonderful to listen to.

[@pompe221]

And she's right -- it's such an easy and obvious fix, needs only a couple lines of dialogue to pull it off!

[@MovieFan1912]

Even if she prefers not to resort to fits of rage when analyzing cases, it’s still entertaining.

[@ravenshymn]

Ok, I have an idea on how to fix the plot: The King never completed The Gauntlet. He chose the Queen because she was the best choice out of the other princesses he could have married and either Nemeni or someone else prophesized that his true love wasn’t a royal, so he never completed it. To keep the truth from getting out, he exiles Nemeni and says she was in love with him in order to make people doubt her if she ever told anyone what really happened. She could either be magic already or learns magic while in exile and finds out that the future Prince is meant to fall for a non-royal. In order to take her revenge, she casts the curse with the sort of wording that will enable the real True Love immune to the Princes charm curse. Also, instead of the “Death of Love,” the Prince will be the one to die if he doesn’t find his True Love, so a win-win for the revenge plot. King thinks one of the princesses is his son’s True Love and so wants his son to go through The Gauntlet and the Prince agrees since he wants to live. The Princesses are decent people but have doubts about the relationship and so hope the quest will help solidify their feelings. The quest goes on with actual character development, no offensive tribe stereotypes, and better songs. After the rendezvous failure or after Fire Mountain, the True Love (Lenore in this case) runs into Nemeni who tells the whole story about what happened with the King. At some point the Prince does in fact find out the truth and confronts the King. To cover up his lies, he sets up a plan to have the Prince “announce” his future wife but dies before he can do so. The King feels justified in his plan because there could be other siblings to take over the role of Heir or the King could marry one of the princesses to have another Heir so the Prince’s death won’t be a problem for the royal bloodline. Lenore manages to rescue the Prince and undo the curse. Everything is revealed, good guys win, bad guys lose, happy ending and hopefully a better story.

[@valentine8409]

How do you get better writing in the youtube comment section than in this whole, professionally made movie?

[@roberttreacy8271]

Nice work.

[@Smokingwrecker]

Thank you! You just fixed the movie

[@samm7371]

Honestly, even at the start I was thinking "If the prince wasn't cursed, just a decent heroic soul that princes assumed would marry them" would've been a far better idea for the movie

[@wordforger]

Yep. Had a friend once that (almost) every girl I knew swooned over. Why? Because he was a genuinely good person on top of being good-looking.

[@Smokingwrecker]

That would have made more sense

[@johnvinals7423]

That would have been some good commentary on how hard it is being treated as a symbol rather than a person just because your parents are the rulers of the country.

[@afterdinnercreations936]

The thing about de-construction is you also have to build something else with the rubble. Shrek took apart the Disney-formula by forming a genuine love-story between a princess and a monster. The sequel was about Fiona's parents reacting to their daughter not following the Disney-formula. The third one sucked. The fourth one brought things full-circle for Shrek turning his snubbing of fairy-tale romance into a weakness that he outgrows. Disney's attempts at "deconstruction" mostly pan-out just like the rest of their ilk, just with a few snarky comments.

[@mcwyman7928]

At the very least this movie gave us the unironic bop that is Trophy Boy, which actually makes great use of its celebrity singers Ashley Tisdale, Avril Lavigne and GEM.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

Love it, too. Deadass the only good song in the movie ibsr.

[@bobi200samatar6]

It strikes me as intensely wrong that Cinderella, the character whose story is about being rescued from an emotionally and probably physically abusive home, so turned into some generic mean girl. That feels like the exact opposite thing that would happen to that character. Also, both Briar Rose and Snow White? Why double down on characters who were cursed to sleep forever? Why not have Rapunzel, or any of the other myriad of 'trapped in a tower' Princesses? Or The Little Mermaid? Or Thumbelina? Or the Pea Princess? The princess from the frog Prince, she actually would work great as a mean girl. I know they're playing on people recognising the Disney Princesses in their movie and coming to see it, but still.

[@ivorynk752]

I find it weird that they made Cinderella the pushy and impatient one when had her spirit broken by her step family. Maybe a better character trait would be finicky and OCD from having to constantly keep everything clean.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

This version of Cinderella was born a princess(which is ignoring and erasing her fairytale so), but yeah.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

9:14 Yes, because it's *always* a good sign when the script makes light of a character's trauma for laughs, not to mention the fact that Snow White's trauma is presented as making her "unappealing to men." Ugh, Diva wasn't kidding last month about how disrespectful that choice is, amongst other things...glad my prediction was right about this being another 10-sinner. 🙄

[@kenthuang436]

At least this movie didn’t break the system like the *other* movie Sia was a part of....

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

@@kenthuang436 Good point...

[@amberwingtundrawing776]

Thats so awful but also I feel like it doesn't make much sense? Not that it would be ok but if anything Sleeping Beauty should be the one with people skills

[@kingofthegundam7974]

There are two kinds of deconstructions: those that take apart the material to expose and transform its genre, liberating it from traditional norms (Shrek, Utena), and those that take apart the material only to reinforce the ugliest parts of what we already believe (this movie).

[@joshraid1550]

When you said “knitting baby booties like a proper wife” I thought that you were kidding, because I listened to the video in the background as I did something else. When I rewatched it I was shocked to learn that you were genuinely serious about this, and she actually was pregnant and knitting baby booties.

[@thesapphireone]

I’m thinking of doing a rewrite of Charming, since it had a really strong premise with Phillippe, a prince who has everyone fall in love with him, but not the REAL him, and Lenore, a cynical woman, whose curse not only has everyone hate her even though, outside of being a thief, isn’t really a bad person who has to discover that she was always worthy of being loved, and this idea could’ve worked, if better executed. Imagine, a story, about two lost souls, who are both cursed in different ways, realising the true value of the other, and bonding over their different lifestyles, and both bringing out the best in each other, so does anyone have any ideas on how to make it work? Does anyone have any ideas, if so, please reply?

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

It doesn’t help that the “charming” prince’s character design looks like if you took Eugene from Tangled, cut the budget for him in half, and stretched his head out on a rack.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

He looks like Hey Arnold if his head was vertical. 😭

[@daliborjovanovic510]

So this 2018 movie actually has a tribe of dark-skinned, stereotypical savage Hollywood natives? They didn't even try to make them look like some kind of mythical creature, they are just 14-foot-tall human women with sharp teeth. Wow.

[@fablethewolf825]

Wouldn't it be better if Cinderella was too much of a pushover, so much so that her refusal to say what she wants is annoying? The girl comes from an abusive home where her stepfamily treated her like a servant and, depending on the version, her dad either went along with it or died. Heck, even her personality in Ever After would be more believable than this mean-girl thing. All you're doing with that is implying that she was deserving of the treatment she got.

[@colleen4ever]

I'm with you, her sudden 180 degree turnaround- especially since she wasn;t even a princess yet- made no sense at all!!

[@alexjewett7455]

I mostly agree with you, but I believe you could have worded your statement better. The idea of painting an abuse victim as "annoying" feels more than a little insensitive.

[@fablethewolf825]

@@alexjewett7455 I meant annoying in relation to why she is 'unfit' for the prince, so he can get with the Mary Sue protagonist.

[@alexjewett7455]

@@fablethewolf825 either way, my point still stands.

[@aacsmiles]

Alternative Charming story idea: - Charming is blessed, not cursed, with irresistible charm at birth. This leads him to be automatically popular everywhere he goes with little to no effort. This also leads him to be incredibly shallow. A witch who witnesses him cruelly dismissing someone who doesn’t meet his standards curses him by taking away his charms. Without the effects of his blessing, people find the Prince is actually quite boring and kind of an asshole and his popularity disappears. Prince now has to grow a personality if he wants people to like him again.

[@wickedfeylady]

Shrek inspired so many imitators that what it did essentially became the norm.

[@bigbearkat2010]

Even Disney itself leaned into it after awhile

[@bizarroguy6570]

But even Shrek’s films have moved beyond simply playing satirical and now truly exploring and expanding the world in their films, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish being the most obvious example.

[@wickedfeylady]

@@bizarroguy6570 Charming predates that film, and I have a feeling the people who made Charming were only looking at the parody elements of the first Shrek movie and doing a shallow take on that theme because they thought THAT's why the movie was successful

[@mightyfilm]

@@bigbearkat2010 The original version of Tangled screamed that. Even when they marketed the movie they kinda passed it off as a Shrek knockoff because they didn't think boys would want to drag their parents to see it otherwise. Kinda why it under-performed and became a more cult hit later on. Still, it can't be overstated how many of these cheap Shrek-a-likes they farted out at the time. This doesn't look like the worst one, but not great none the less.

[@mollyencrypted2488]

@@wickedfeylady Apparently it's the same producers. Make of that what you will.

[@mollyencrypted2488]

Honestly, I want to see the version where Lenore accidentally seduces the terrible-but-ultimately-decent princesses.

[@ilikecurry2345]

Hah. I just realized it - Nemeni is one syllable away from "anemone". She's almost a poisonous sea plant that a clownfish is somehow magically immune to, which is why they live there.

[@TheJFish94]

Musical Hell 10 sins count (as of Feburary 2023): 2012 - From Justin to Kelly 2013 - Love Never Dies 2014 - Spice World 2016 - Glitter 2017 - Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas 2019 - The Mighty Kong, Z-O-M-B-I-E-S, and Elf Bowling: The Movie 2022 - Music (first and only episode to go beyond 10 sins) 2023 - Charming

[@frankieseward8667]

I Don think anything will top music.

[@maniacaldude]

I think Elf Bowling: The Movie was a 10 sin count as well.

[@TheJFish94]

@@maniacaldude Yes it was.

[@sinjin-kaib2443]

You forgot Z-O-M-B-I-E-S

[@trinaq]

I take it that the title is ironic, since the protagonist is anything BUT Charming. Also, Trophy Boy could be seen as a "Saving Grace."

[@sirrliv]

Something else I'm noticing in the clips of all the songs: They're all too big. A major part of what makes Disney musicals so successful is the variety of their music to suit the purpose. Yes, each one has its big showstopping number, but they also have their smaller comedy patter of soft tender ballad. Frozen wouldn't be nearly as memorable if every single song had to be on the same level of energy as Let It Go. But here, every singer feels the need to belt out to the cheap seats every time and the result is that all of the musical numbers sound the same and none carry any greater weight or meaning; it's just "2:15, time to be heard in the next county again."

[@ryanschwartz4959]

So, like The Greatest Showman, but worse?

[@mollyencrypted2488]

It's occurred to me that having Lenore and Phillipe not become a couple might have been more a more satisfying narrative. Phil's curse was set in motion because his father's guide became a Woman Scorned, and it's the strong platonic relationship he forms with his own guide that helps him to break it.

[@timothymclean]

More movies should be bold enough to write stories where men and women can be friends. Like normal people do.

[@annabunovsky5628]

I really, really love fairytales & I tend to get really hung up on how modern retellings & parodies often see the forest for the trees (I’m high functioning autistic & fairytales are one of my special interests, if that adds context). I don’t feel this way about all spoofs & deconstructive fairytales, Ella Enchanted is one of my favorite books, Into the Woods is still one of my favorite musicals, Enchanted is a banger & like much of the internet I recently fell in love with Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, but overall the trend frustrates me. And Oh Boy did Charming manage to cram in everything I hate & sprinkle some missed potential on top. I especially couldn’t stand the treatment of the princesses, like they’re victims here? They’re under the influence of a spell AND being strung along by an asshole who knows what his curse does, but they’re still at fault because they have the audacity to be girly girls. Thanks I hate it.

[@gentlemanlygeeky4088]

Have you seen ABC's Once Upon A Time?

[@KaminoKatie]

@@gentlemanlygeeky4088 That show is just Disney's Riverdale

[@gracekim25]

@@KaminoKatie that’s a terrible comparison 😅

[@annabunovsky5628]

I’ve seen a bit of OUAT, it’s not quite my thing but I can see the appeal of it. If I had to pick a favorite movie that does any kind of commentary on fairytale tropes, I would have to say either The Princess Bride or Labyrinth. Granted, those movies came out before fractured fairytales was really a trend, so while they get a little self-aware they’re still played straight, and they’re really about exploring the value of fairytales- The Princess Bride story being told creates an intergenerational bond between a grandfather & grandson, while Labyrinth’s protagonist’s emotional growth combined with her love of fairytales allows her to come of age in her own unique way.

[@willlyon7129]

@@annabunovsky5628 I too never got into Once Upon a Time, it emphasizes on the Disney catalog, the CGI has aged poorly, the world building is insipid, and it’s a good concept to waste.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

13:08 Okay, the carriage becoming a hot-air balloon with enough strength to carry both the main characters *and* their horse by way of geyser spout is so ridiculous that it's actually kind of awesome. 😆

[@GatorRay]

There's only one bad thing about that. It reminds me of the late Ed Asner's HORRIBLE rap song from the film Happily Ever After. They didn't have a proper villain song in that film. But they did include an out of place rap number about being bad.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

@@GatorRay Um...I'm going to need more context on how that pertains to my comment, unless you actually meant to reply this to someone else. 😅

[@some_random_user_who_is_random]

Cinderella is pushy and impatient? Wot? Did she go mad with power before the wedding or something? I don't see how that personality makes any sense with her traditional backstory. Though...props for not shying away from making Snow White inhumanely pale to the point of her being unsettling. Though I'm guessing they didn't do anything remotely smart with that.

[@blapis-blazuli]

I know these reviews are mostly music-focused, but the voice acting in the clips shown here (especially from Phillipe) ranges from passable to "Oh, good lord, NO." The line delivery of "this is weird, love is blind" doesn't invoke the proper emotions and makes me wince every time I hear it.

[@butterflylatte3079]

22:07 Ohhh, you know what would make this more interesting? Reveal early on that Nemeni had been invited to a ceremony of Lenore's when she was young (why? Maybe the pirates are running on Disney fanfic logic of 'What if Maleficent WAS invited?' Maybe the pirates are in good with Nemeni, who knows) and had 'blessed' Lenore with never finding love. This gives Lenore and Nemeni a connection, and the two could potentially have repeat encounters throughout the movie. Maybe Nemeni views her meddling as a means of protecting Lenore. Maybe she has a sorta 'Mother Knows Best Reprise' moment. Maybe she and Lenore have a cunning plan and Lenore starts to have second thoughts. I dunno, get creative, but it'd be a fun idea.

[@TheNumnutRandomness]

I honestly thought that's where the movie was going. Two outcast women with a distaste for royals? I thought she would share at least SOME connection with a person who seemed to be going down the exact path of heartbreak she once did. I honestly can see a version of Nemeni as a fairy godmother who gave Lenore a "curse" opposite to Philipe's "blessing". Like an Ella Enchanted situation where his original fairy godmother was _very_ short-sighted and didn't think AT ALL about the implications of such a "gift". Nemeni, seeing a perfect opportunity creates the one foe the prince would never see coming: a woman who would _never_ love him. But as you grow up things become more complicated. For Phillip, having every single woman fall blindly in love with him isn't as great as his godmother thought it'd be. And Lenore, for all of Nemeni's plans, can't bring herself to hate a person's she's never even met.

[@butterflylatte3079]

@@TheNumnutRandomness And hey, with a story like that you don’t even need to keep the Woman Scorned angle. Maybe Nemeni and this other fairy have been at odds for years. Maybe Nemeni has seen just how often this other fairy’s gifts of charm and love and irresistible beauty have screwed up so many lives and relationships that she’s grown disillusioned with love entirely. Hence why she sees what she gives Lenore as a blessing or a gift. Then you can neatly work in a moral about how there’s a difference between real love and obsession/infatuation.

[@NiGHTSIntoMemes]

Red Shoes and the Seven Dwarves is a much better movie about whatever the hell this one has been trying to say.

[@imthebossmermaid3648]

I thought so too. It also had a fat princess who was portrayed as beautiful and strong rather than as a monstrosity. Also the character designs are actually appealing, and it does the “pompous playboy prince becomes humble and generous” thing right. I just wish that the movie didn’t have the princess spend most of her time in her thin form.

[@natmar8308]

You know what Shrek had that none of these knock-offs don't? CONSISTENT CHARACTER DESIGNS. It's bugging me so much that (of course) the guy has a much more exaggerated, cartoony look.

[@morganyoung3557]

I have seen so many people here say how they would improve the story, but there is just one simple fix for it. Make the Prince Charming character gay. The curse would actually be horrifying for him because he isn’t attracted to women. Instead of having just Lenore help him out, make it be a brother and sister duo. Everyone is expecting him to fall in love with the sister because that is the traditional fairy tale route, but of course he is falling in love with the brother. When he completes the gauntlet, everyone is excited because they think he found his true love in the sister of the duo, but he is freaking out because he knows that she isn’t his true love, it is her brother that is his true love, so if he marries her the curse will not be broken. So he gets help from the sister of the duo who became his friend to help him be able to tell everyone who he truly loves so he can break the curse. But of course no one is going to ever have the guts to make that because they only want to appear subversive, not actually be subversive.

[@j3ssthealien283]

I find it very odd that the only twist people do to Prince Charming like characters is that their self-absorbed Narcissus. This movie would work better with a sheltered Prince Training his whole life for the gauntlet but his training didn't necessarily prepare him for the real world. Add to the fact that no matter what he does women will always find him Charming and you have an interesting comedic character

[@YinYangAngel55]

8:21 Ashley Tisdale? well its nice to see Candace finally got that princess role in a movie.

[@phonybeautrain6520]

"Mom! Phineas and Ferb casted me in one of the worst Fractured Fairytales Movie!"

[@MovieFan1912]

Too bad the film itself is garbage. I would say that’s worse than what happened with “The Curse of the Princess Monster.” Granted, one of Doofenschmirtz’s inators zapped the test audience and aged them to the point of being elderly, and no one batted an eye on how just a few minutes ago that whole crowd was just the right demographic for the movie and declaring the movie dead on arrival (Sorry, my nitpickler side came out for a moment) but still.

[@jordangerardpotier]

You know a movie bad when you can’t even like the main “hero” for even a second.

[@joshraid1550]

The thing so many fairy tale parodies who tried to rip off shrek got so fundamentally wrong is that there’s no subversion. Shrek is subversive. He’s born a beast, has no high class status or privilege, isn’t young, and isn’t charming. Shrek is the last character who would get the princess. So it’s genuinely subversive watching him act out all of this fairy tail stuff. You don’t even need to reference fairy tails to make it obviously a parody. But charming is the story of a common girl getting a prince charming. He’s a charming womanizer who he doesn’t like, but that makes this literally just the princess and the frog. Remove direct parody elements and references, what do you have? A womanizing prince romancing a common girl. That’s not a parody, that’s literally princess and the frog, but less subversive. The parody can only be shallow at this point. Especially since they get a generic fairy tale ending.

[@cartooncritique6625]

5:45 I just realized how much it would suck to be aromantic in these old fairytales. Heaven forbid you're a guy or a girl in these stories who doesn't want to get married. Not everybody is looking for their "true love"; some people just want to live their lives on their own terms without constantly having somebody stuck to their hip. 19:05 This reminds me of an indie animation I saw on KZbin some time ago; only there it was the evil enchantress who walked in on the prince (who she had the hots for) womanizing, and subsequentially vaporized him and everybody within a 10-mile radius out of spite.

[@minako10]

I wonder if naming the prince in this "Felipe" is a reference to Sleeping Beauty's Prince Phillip, who's spanish dub name is, in fact, Felipe.

[@Rabbitlord108]

Considering the usage of Sleeping Beauty. I think that you're right.

[@gracekim25]

Mmmmm makes sense

[@KL-ki8db]

I mean Felipe is the spansh version of the name Phillip.

[@DocZFlux]

I’m just as jaded about the overdone “superhero deconstructions”. I just wanna see straight up heroes fighting straight up evil villains again.

[@mintychustarclan7381]

Same

[@juliagoodwin9510]

Agreed. I'm so sick of this kind of thing I want to scream...

[@digifreak90]

Especially in musicals. Villain songs are the best.

[@DocZFlux]

@@digifreak90 Mean Green Mother from Outer Space anyone?

[@willhiggins9563]

So that Marvel? quantumania is setting up a megalomaniacal “Conqueror” black mailing a hero with his daughter.

[@SiRenfield]

Ah man good things Puss In Boots: The Last Wish snuck by before the ban took effect LOL. Probably the first time in a while people cared about a work in this sub genre, let alone from the Shrek franchise

[@KonniWynn]

what ban?

[@SiRenfield]

@@KonniWynn I was referring to the jokey ban at the very beginning (for further context a mortatorium out is a temporary ban on something), nothing serious 😂

[@christheleavittman7080]

@@KonniWynn at the beginning of this video

[@MovieFan1912]

@@SiRenfield You mean a moratorium? Like the Disney Vault?

[@SiRenfield]

@@MovieFan1912 Nope it is an actual legal term although I do lowkey like your definition 😂

[@mareofmaers3590]

Wait... did we just leave Cinderella in the hands of her abusive stepfamily?

[@willlyon7129]

Maybe they got their eyes pecked by her birds.

[@mareofmaers3590]

@@willlyon7129Ngl that would be kinda metal of them to keep THAT part of her story.

[@timothymclean]

4:15: So, if Charming goes through a series of arbitrary heroic trials, he'll learn who his One True Love is, which is both somehow meaningful to him and will resolve the issue of being engaged to three separate women, all of whom are in love with him and think he reciprocates? Okay, sure, let's go with that. 12:12: ...wait, the last arbitrary heroic trial requires you to already know who your True Love is? Then _what's the point?_ 23:30: So basically, this movie subverts every fairy tale cliche except the ones that matter. 6:20: ...if it were in a better movie, I'd probably chuckle at a songbird haggling over its cut of the loot. 15:22: Is that a pun on half-orc? Because I'm all for puns, but that just seems random. 17:35: Are we _sure_ Lenore isn't affected by the Prince's supernatural charm? 22:20: I assumed that the "raised by pirates at sea" thing was setup for a "She's a kidnapped princess" plot point, and I'm relieved to see that they didn't feel the need to do that. Instead, it was...nothing.

[@joshraid1550]

Here’s my take on a parody of fairy tales. 1. Rather than sleeping beauty constantly falling asleep, she is afraid to fall asleep because the last time she casually nodded off a hundred years passed. 2. The beast, specifically the OG beast from the version where belle is shallow, is forever afraid that belle’s acceptance of his beastliness is conditional on the fact that he became a prince, and that if his beauty fades she’ll stop loving him. He’s also still the hot-tempered asshole he was before, and once he realizes this he thinks his curse is still there internally because deep down belle doesn’t love him. Then he kind of becomes a male version of the evil queen and gets his own magic mirror, hoping that if he becomes perfectly handsome he will be cured of his monstrousness. Through this belle starts to turn on him and he starts turning back into a beast. 3. There’s a prince who lives in the woods and sings to birds and stuff, lamenting how he will never find a princess because they all want manly princes who fight monsters and use swords. Turns out that’s just what his mean king father instilled in him and he actually has no trouble finding the right girl. Maybe she’s a warrior princess or something or maybe she’s a princess classic type, either one works here.

[@hecatejones4038]

Yes please to all three!

[@joshraid1550]

Ever after high has shades of number one in a dramatic scene, where sleeping beauties daughter gets pricked, passes out, and then freaks out wondering how long she’s been asleep, but they make much more liberal use of the more cliche “she’s always sleeping” gag.

[@rogue7723]

Oddly enough, _not_ the worst thing Demi Lovato has done.

[@gentlemanlygeeky4088]

Are you referring to Camp Rock?

[@rogue7723]

@@gentlemanlygeeky4088 No, I'm talking about their whole sh** of calling out a small frozen yogurt shop for having cookies labelled "guilt-free" and all their minions drank the kool-aid and started harrassing it causing the shop to almost go out of business in _the middle of a frickin' pandemic._ The first _Camp Rock_ was stupid, but ultimately harmless at the very least.

[@Alexandraadftxr7052]

@@rogue7723 and promoting a vebsite, that promots antisemitic consperecy theories. See Gaia or how the vebsite is called.

[@Rabbitlord108]

@@rogue7723 What about the sequel to Camp Rock?

[@frankieseward8667]

@@Rabbitlord108 nah. It started a great meme sl it gets a pass.

[@mgfoster9197]

Given recent music news, I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that the protagonists are voiced by Wilmer Valderrama and Demi Lovato.

[@roosaheikkinen8468]

I'm out of the loop. What's going on?

[@blxssingss]

@@roosaheikkinen8468 Wilmer was knowingly dating Demi when she was a minor. And she's very recently released a song stating it was a groomed relationship

[@katherineperrin4817]

Oh Christ that that is a yikes

[@henrygvidonas9573]

"That 70s Show" is starting to look more and more like creep central with every passing year... Scamotologists, rapists, groomers, drunk drivers, spouse beaters - they had it all!

[@SEGASister]

And the princesses are voiced by Avril Lavigne, Ashley Tisdale, and G.E.M.

[@sabrinaking1873]

This might be just me, but I would've liked to see Charming be about a prince falling in love with a boy. Hear me out, the Prince is under a curse so that all women who see him can't help but love him, but it's all superficial so the prince has a hard time really connecting with anyone. His only companion is a childhood friend of his, maybe a knight in training or a palace mage, this friend has feelings for the prince but hesitates to confess because he thinks the prince won't feel the same way. The two embark on a journey to try and find the prince's true love, during which time the prince comes to realize that he too has feelings for his friend, but before he can say anything our villainess tries to gaslight him, saying that there's no way that the two of them share true love. But at the climax, the friend performs a heroic act and confesses his feelings along with the prince and the curse is broken, leading to the villainess' defeat. But I mean, that's just off the top of my head.

[@philipdarrenellwell1994]

I guess "All of the Prince Charmings are actually the same guy" and "Charming is cursed to make any woman fall for him" are also becoming tropes. Fables, a few movies, and a handful of novels all did the "Same guy" thing, and there was one so-so book where the Charming line was cursed to doomed romances due to a wandering eye. Oh well, stuff happens.

[@MovieFan1912]

Doomed romances due to a wandering eye? It sounds like King Henry VIII to me.

[@philipdarrenellwell1994]

@@MovieFan1912 It was something that every Charming prince would be doomed to never have a happy marriage due to constant (implied) cheating. It was a YA novel, and honestly wasn't amazing.

[@willlyon7129]

@@MovieFan1912More like Bluebeard

[@joshraid1550]

What if instead the prince was a guy who simply saved various women except due to the culture around him this was assumed to be a precursor to romance meanwhile he’s just helping people in danger? I think that would be a better concept. Also, what if prince charming met another prince charming and they realize they were basically the same person? That’s way funnier. Like when ever after high had a joke where a character explained that there were multiple different royal families with the surname “charming” that are not related but are all pass down their version of the archetypal prince charming title to one of their sons.

[@bigbearkat2010]

Honestly I'm feeling like a better idea is to have his "charming" powers (btw given how little actual appeal the dude has on his own I feel like the title should be in quotations) disappear completely and that way he is actually forced to learn something plus we presumably see a bunch of scenes where he gets maced or kicked in the groin when his attempts fall flat.

[@alexanderklepp]

This is another case that has Ashley Tisdale in it and she deserves better. She was in Phineas and Ferb which gave her multiple opportunities to sing and that show unlike this was great.

[@SiRenfield]

She at least had House of Ashes, although granted that one’s not a musical and her performance was a bit off since that was a horror game as opposed to comedy which is her usual forte

[@GatorRay]

Then again. She was also in the High School Musical films during her time with the mouse house.

[@alexanderklepp]

High School Musical is flawed but that's not to say she didn't do well in it.

[@phonybeautrain6520]

@@alexanderklepp People would say that Zac Efron was the star of the High School Musical Movies, but everyone know that Ashley Tisdale was the one carrying the franchise at the time

[@171QA]

Felipe is like an extremely unlikeable version of Flynn/Eugene from Tangled. He even looks a little like him. So, if you are planning to end your Musical Hell series I just want to say it’s been a fun ride.

[@reasyrandom]

I think if you magically split Eugene in two and gave all of his cool/likable traits to his female side, you'd end up with Lenore. Phillipe has all that remains.

[@majorfanboy2005]

What makes you think that she's ending her review series?

[@reasyrandom]

@@majorfanboy2005 She announced it herself. Plus, her last review had her questioning why she keeps putting up with this.

[@majorfanboy2005]

@@reasyrandom You mean, Music? That was like a few reviews. Pretty much too late to bring that one up.

[@reasyrandom]

@@majorfanboy2005 No, Saving Santa

[@AndrewB..]

Yay new musical hell! I will be so sad when it ends but I truly have enjoyed every minute of it, and being a proud patron of you diva!

[@MusicalHell]

There will be videos even after Musical Hell is ended--I still want to do some analysis and riffing, among others--but may be on a more sporadic schedule.

[@AndrewB..]

@@MusicalHell well that's good! Your channel is one of the best here on KZbin, so it'll be nice to continue to enjoy your other types of content!

[@kenthuang436]

Please tell us Diva will rip ZOMBIES 3 to shreds before retiring!

[@Alexandraadftxr7052]

@@MusicalHell your humor is really good. It's really nice, to watch both your new, and old videos.

[@gamestation2690]

@@kenthuang436Musical Hell is ending soon? What did I miss?

[@theadaptationstationmaster]

Can someone who has seen the movie explain to me why Snow White and Sleeping Beauty wouldn't have already heard about the prince being engaged to Cinderella? Like didn't he throw a big ball specifically to meet a woman and then go on this big search for one in particular? I guess it's justified by them having been unconscious for a while, but newspapers are shown to exist in this movie's world, and it was a big public engagement. Seems like they would have gotten suspicious before Lenore spilled the magic beans. Also why does Lenore need to disguise her identity in the first place? Stories like this are why I've grown cynical about fractured fairy tales.

[@lunadiggorytennant]

Sooo basically the romance in this movie is Puss in Boots: The last Wish done wrong.

[@TheRoadrunnerFromHell]

The ironic thing about this film that fails at everything Shrek did right was that it was produced by John H. Williams, the same guy who produced Shrek.

[@gentlemanlygeeky4088]

Holy irony, Batman!!!

[@kataevellei415]

7:30 My first thought was "Oh, so she likes girls, then," and now I kinda wish this was a buddy comedy between them as she shows the prince that you can be charming and suave without being a selfish a-hole. Then one princess marries Philippe, one marries Lenore, and the third one realizes she actually prefers to be single.

[@spiceupyourafterlife]

If anyone wants a fractured fairytale with a similar premise to this done well, read Charming by Jade Linwood. It has a similar beginning to this movie, where the prince woos Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, and Rapunzel and they team up to take revenge on him for betraying them.

[@frogger2178]

I wish this movie had been gay. think of it: every woman instantly falls in love with him, so who could his true love be? A MAN WHO ISNT AFFECTED BY THE CURSE

[@DemiSemme]

Opposition dangit, I have a fractured fairytale novel that's been a work in progress since 2017, what am I gonna do with it now? Well, at least we got to 10 sins and an appropriate punishment for our troubles.

[@MusicalHell]

We can probably grandfather that one in...

[@johnvinals7423]

Tell me more.

[@DemiSemme]

​@@johnvinals7423 Continuation of the really icky nonconsensual version of Sleeping Beauty by Giambattista Basile which depicts the protagonist pushing to find some measure of peace after the trauma of her original fairytale.

[@MusicalHell]

@@DemiSemme Ooooh, is that the one where the prince just bangs her while she's unconscious and she doesn't wake up until she gives birth to twins and one of them sucks a splinter out of her finger while trying to nurse?

[@johnvinals7423]

@@DemiSemme You know, thank Eru that Disney generally avoids making their Princes toxic douches.

[@molinagrn65]

I still remembered this movie existing mainly because of when it was trending, several viewers were theorizing Lenore was transgender, lesbian or aroace. Kinda wish for that again, it’s more interesting than another “girl closes herself to romance until the right guy changes that” cliche. Also if the princesses were FAR better written instead of the type of making them vain and mean for no reason when it doesn’t make sense for their origins, they should’ve been used in the adventure as they were used a lot in the advertising but never used. There was so much potential to use, just wasted.

[@molinagrn65]

Also I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought Sia’s song was a tone mess. It has part of sounding good but the lyrics and clashing in the rhythm just ruin the music. 💀

[@SpiderandMosquito]

Okay, I remember seeing a trailer for this a couple of years back. Yes, *a* trailer. As in just the one. And then never heard from it since. I honestly had no idea it ever came out. For a guy who follows animation as often as I do... eeehh that's not a good sign.

[@colleen4ever]

That's exactly what I said. Saw the trailer....then nothing. I assumed it was supposed to come out in 2020 or something and got thrown to streaming casue of the pandemic.

[@johnvinals7423]

Imagine if Philippe’s arc in this movie was “I’m so tired of being alone objectified as nothing but a symbol of my country. I want to be loved for who I am and not what I represent”.

[@lunadiggorytennant]

I swear to God, the romantic plot in this movie is basically the one in Puss in Boots: The last Wish but done wrong. Seeing something butcher a similar story truly makes you appreciate a good one even more

[@Martialartfruituser]

Y'know, everytime I see one of these films that tries to ape on the Shrek formula, all I can think of is what make Shrek so good in the first place. All of these films seem to think of is "Dur, Fairy Tales are silly, Dur" and just start from there. But when you take Shrek down to it's barebones, it's still just playing to the Fairy tale: Guy goes out, finds princess, gets true love. However, what made Shrek good wasn't JUST making fun of fairy tales, their tropes, and such. Because, in truth, that had been done since the 40s with Red Hot Riding hood and things like Fractured Fairy Tales from Rocky and Bullwinkle. No, what made Shrek good...was a lot of heart and good jokes. You can't tell me that a big ogre taking down knights isn't one of the funniest things ever, or that a Donkey pulling a Bard and laying a dragon isn't over the top. But there was also the idea that there is more to you than outward appearences, that you can be friends with someone you might know you like yet, and how to be a good person at heart. These films just feel like they want to ignore the heart for fake platidudes and romance that you can see coming a mile away. Interestingly enough, this just makes their parodies and subversions all the more, dull.

[@erikdaniels0n]

After seeing your tweet about how this movie makes Love Never Dies look like a feminist masterpiece, I’ve been DYING for this review. I’ve literally never heard of it before, so… color me intrigued

[@miticaBEP07]

At least Love Never Dies doesn't feel the need to proclaim itself as not sexist while being exactly that.

[@LauraM96829]

The whole “being cursed to never fall in love” has always bugged me as someone who identifies asexual. It’s just a reminder that not experiencing attraction or desiring a romantic relationship is treated as something tragic or needing to be fixed. No one in movies can be genuinely happy staying single. It’s always marriage and babies forever after.

[@Crazyivan777]

Spent most of my adult life thinking I was 'broken' because of that sort-of media. Wasn't until about two years ago when a friend introduced me to the idea of asexuality that I learned who I was and bid a polite 'screw you' to the 'marriage and babies forever after' ending.

[@pintsizedpicasso3402]

When the trailer for the film first came out, I heard many people commenting, "Well, what is the prince liked guys?" Honestly, if they really wanted to make a "genre-breaking" film, adding LGBTQIA+ elements really would have been great. There is a real missed opportunity here for a fairy tale story about heteronormitivity or about the trend of how characters have to end up in a relationship by the end to be happy. I would have loved a story where Prince Charming's happy ending is either his one true love not being a woman or he ends up happy and single. Maybe his happy ending could have been about meeting Lenore, not because he found his one true love, but because he finally found a friend who understood him since she was also part of the LGBTQIA+ community. It would have also provided a much better explanation for why the curse didn't affect Lenore other than, "she just choose not to fall in love/closed off her heart." I really hated that explanation because 1) it implies the curse isn't actually that strong because all you need is strong resolve to resist it 2) as a result it paints all the women who fell for the curse in a really bad light (which actually could have made for some interesting commentary if they had addressed it). Granted, I don't exactly trust that these writers would have handled the subject well if they had included it.

[@LauraM96829]

@@pintsizedpicasso3402 That's a fairytale deconstruction I'd actually love to see!

[@Stargazer_Ley]

As an ace as well, I'd have loved her to be immune because she was ace and the love she felt would be platonic while the prince learns that there are different types of love and that the fellings he has for Lenora are platonic as well. You can keep him trying to get married because maybe he thinks that's the only love that will break the curse but as he gets to know Lenora he realizes that other love exists and that maybe his platonic love for her will be enough. The kiss could be CPR through a loophole. Then we have a woman who learns she's not cursed or broken because she's not interested in the prince (It's a kid movie wording is hard) and a Prince who learns the value of other types of love. Nemeny could be upset because she's beaten by such an obvious loophole or maybe she wasn't evil to begin with and just warned that the Charming Curse was dangerous, whatever.

[@gracekim25]

@@Stargazer_Ley mmm yeah it’s why I’m perfectly ok with Elsa from frozen being single because not everyone actually ends up with someone 😅

[@rzionrnrzfm5925]

Adding to the point about Felipe not doing anything to mitigate his curse, example of somebody actually doing this not mentioned was the main character in The Gilbert and Sullivan operetta Rudigore. Out protagonist ends up by forced to take on the role of the evil baronet of the eponymous castle and he is forced to do a evil deed everyday or else he will die. He is however clearly not up to task for playing this role and he's such a good-hearted person that he's been a baron for only a week, his crimes are laughably minor such as lying on a income tax form, disinheriting a son that he does not have. The only time he's forced into actually doing a crime is when he's literal ancestors all show up to basically shame him into doing it. A clear sign of why Felipe is such a bad protagonist in comparison.

[@rzionrnrzfm5925]

Thx diva.

[@KirbyIsCute]

When the trailer came out, someone in comments suggested that the reason the female lead was immune to his charms is because she was a lesbian. Which could have been a neat twist but we know the movie wasn't going there. You mentioning that she was immune because she was born in sea instead of land which the witch cursed the Prince with, also a good twist. But as far as I know it's never explained why she wasn't affected by the Prince's curse. Lame.

[@caitlingill]

She was cursed to not love, so maybe that’s why? I still think that the sea twist or even making Leonora gay or ace would be way better than the ending

[@cyanmanta]

Philippe’s design is off. There’s no warmth to his features or frame; he’s pointy and blocky, like a parody of an attractive man. He’s more like Faarquad or Dreamworks’ Charming than like a true protagonist.

[@joshraid1550]

That last part could be fine, but the girls are made to look generically pretty and making him the least attractive character in a story about how he's the one everyone wants to fuck is some really bad design. Normally a character who is attractive in-universe but not to the audience exists in a world full of ridiculous cartoony designs. Like handsome Squidward, or the identical models from that Pinnochio movie.

[@joshuacritchfield3564]

This is 1 of those movies that was in development hell for a long time. It originally started with the idea of being a romeo must die sort of story. It was going to be a thing where the princess is were chasing him around trying to force him to either make a choice or be punished. I think that would have been funnier and more interesting.

[@SilverWings733]

I hope movie makers and storytellers go back to the tales themselves instead of a trying to spin it, deconstruct it, etc. Children are more familiar with the deconstruction than they are the original tale. Movies are so stale right now; it's time to go back to the classics, which ARE classics for a reason...THEY WORK!

[@ladyofavalon]

Okay, this is a strange comparison Diva, but bare with me. In the classic anime Revolutionary Girl Utena hinges on the mythological "prince" trope and it being upheld/broken by the cross dressing protagonist Utena, there is the idea of the prince saving princesses...all of them. In the final season shadow book tale is told through a play of a prince whose job it is to save every princess, but is stopped by a witch that ends up being his sister, who can never be a princess. This frame is the way the antagonist Akio uses to set up his game and put his sister he's abusing as the witch/rose bride. It's Utena who was manipulated, assaulted, and injured who ends up being the true prince, not Akio who puts on the facade of "Prince Charming". My point after explaining all that is that the "prince charming" trope is a mask that can be used by bad male characters like this one.

[@amberdawn868]

Utena is a much better subversion of fairy tale tropes than this movie by far!!! The prince, the princess, the witch, gender roles... It's a masterpiece.

[@wrenbeck3370]

Why does the royal blessing fairy look like Morshu? Edit: also, the Half-Oracle is way too good of a concept for this. Like, I hate to do the "lol this is like Video Game" twice in one comment, but bird up the design a bit and hire a random actress to voice her, and she'd make a pretty good Zeno Clash NPC.

[@MovieFan1912]

Morshu? Is that from some obscure Disney rip off?

[@wrenbeck3370]

​@@MovieFan1912 Nah, he's from this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda_CD-i_games

[@MovieFan1912]

@@wrenbeck3370 Ohhh. Okay.

[@atotalfiasco4213]

NOT MORSHU-

[@samminden1058]

Sooooo, they basically turned Prince Charming into Diarmuid ua Duibhne from the Fenian Cycles of Irish Mythology? But with none of the tragedy or the fact that Diarmuid's curse actively hurts his relationship with his lord and best friend Fionn, leading to Fionn letting Diarmuid die even when he could have easily saved him?

[@SiRenfield]

Honestly if you want a better example of what they tried to do the blessing turning into a curse thing better, there’s a lesser known Finnish fairy tale called Adalmina’s Pearl that’s pretty underrated (only in this case it’s the Princess that needs the attitude adjustment).

[@mintychustarclan7381]

Really? Can you tell us the story?

[@jasonblalock4429]

I'll never get tired of seeing you pull out that Plan 9 clip when it's most deserved. 🙂

[@caitlinsnowfrost8244]

18:42 That has me thinking...if they *did* want to have him start off as self-absorbed, I think it would've worked well if he was sort of like Kuzco.

[@CraftedRabbit]

Having Snow White and Sleeping Beauty in this doesn't make any sense to me. In most versions of their stories, their curses are broken with true love's kiss. How did the script writers overlook that?!

[@PugandOwn]

I understand that a movie like this is far too cowardly to accept that anyone other than cisgender heterosexuals exist, but man is it hard to ignore the very obvious solutions/complications that arise by just going, oh yeah, the prince could literally just fall in love with a guy and have a normal relationship. maybe even have some character development on how you actually have to put effort into showing those you love that you care, and shouldn't just coast off of being attractive. and not gonna lie, lenore turned up onscreen and within ten seconds all I could think about was what an unfortunate way that would be to realise you were trans. the fact she then spent half the movie with a mustache too, just... c'mon man, don't just echo my experiences as a baby queer and then just loop back around to the most hegemonic, societally expected ending possible! especially not if you're then going to call not falling in love with anyone a curse, sending a big ol kick in the face to any a- or aro-spec people who didn't quit watching after the first five minutes. sheesh, what a dreadful movie.

[@reyfan011]

The handsome prince falling for the one person who isn’t in love with him is an old trope, but if done good enough is a favorite of mine. I feel like with some more tweaking and exploration of the main girl’s reason for why her heart was so guarded, it would have been a bit better. The idea of the same Prince Charming being engaged to three different princesses is funny. Although the storyline of the main girl posing as a man for most of the story seemed pretty weak. Basically I like the concept for this story but not the finished product

[@Aurora-Welch]

The voice of Philippe voiced Augustine in Encanto which came out 2 years later going off of the original release date. 14:53 The chef is voiced by Tara strong who she and Sia were also in the 2017 mlp movie.

[@gracekim25]

I think these movies that try to copy Shrek have no idea WHY it worked 😅 Also um ‘curse to never love’? Oh boy 😶 that gives bad vibes 😅 I feel bad for anyone who’s Ace or Aro

[@makecaseyfamous365]

Thank you so much for doing this, I watched this movie a while back and felt my grip on reality slowly unravel during the run time.

[@LaydiNite]

There's a manga series called "Ludwig Revolution" that does the 'charming asshole prince in warped versions of fairy tales' much better.

[@lunaticproductions0]

The fact that Lenore isnt in love with Charming for no real reason that Im aware of combined with the Woman Disguising Herself As A Man trope makes me think Lenore shouldve been a closeted trans guy and didnt immediately fall for him because the curse is very heteronormative ngl Edit: Lenore got cursed to never love and that was the workaround??? bruh thats so stupid

[@JoeEnglandShow]

Ugh. Y'know, John Cleese once said that "snowflake" was a term coined by sociopaths in an attempt to discredit the notion of empathy. So what do you call a sociopath who's aware of empathy, but has no idea how it works? Charming, I guess.

[@DankeDummkopf]

I can't get over how terrible Charming's voice actor is. Everyone else is at least passible (with the exception of Cleese as the Fairy Godmother), but they dropped the ball with the character they really needed to get right. He sounds so flat and detached. It's like a half-assed practice run that somehow got pasted onto the movie. Everything unlikable about Charming is made so much worse by that awful performance.

[@miticaBEP07]

The fact that Lenore not falling in love was retroactively justified by her not being voiced by a woman after all - Demi Lovato came out as nonbinary the year after this movie came out - is almost too absurd.

[@colleen4ever]

LOL!!!

[@mollyencrypted2488]

Okay, I know the 'nonbinary folks are walking prophecy/curse loopholes' idea isn't new, but that's still a version of the story I want.

[@wesmcinerny4524]

She's not nb anymore.

[@Smokingwrecker]

9:05 here’s an idea for Sleeping Beauty. Make her an night owl or an insomniac.

[@DendyJungle]

I thought I recognized those voices. It’s Demi Lovato and Wilmer Valderama. They notoriously had a toxic and probably illegal relationship. As if this movie didn’t leave a bad taste in your mouth as it is.

[@caitlingill]

Demi literally based her 17/29 song of their relationship due to their age gap

[@willembirgel6530]

Honestly, I never understood why fairy tale parodies go with the "Sleeping Beauty sleeps a lot" joke. Wouldn't it make more sense for her to have developed some sort of aversion to sleep instead?

[@theadaptationstationmaster]

In the fairy tale by Charles Perrault, there's actually a joke about her not needing to sleep. There's also one about her fashion sense being way behind the times after she woke up.

[@willembirgel6530]

@@theadaptationstationmaster Interesting, I didn't know that.

[@Smokingwrecker]

I would have made her an insomniac

[@Seth.Mincberg]

Personally, I'm a fan of Charming. It's god awful, don't get me wrong. Still, it's one of the less offensive god awfuls and thus, fun to rip on while watching. I made all my friends watch it and we could not stop laughing at all the still shots they used to pad out the time.

[@Plaugue1122]

The fable comics also beat the "every Prince in the fairy tale conon being the same dude" by a decade I think if not more

[@SiRenfield]

Oh certainly!

[@colleen4ever]

Into The Woods skirted around that by having the Princes be brothers.

[@reasyrandom]

It's actually a fairly popular subversion. Have "Prince Charming" be a despicable two-timer. It was funny at first, but then everyone did it.

[@joshraid1550]

@@colleen4ever Ever after high had a joke about how there are multiple completely unrelated royal families with the last name charming.