Cheap and Nasty or Low-Cost Unicorn? ☢️

[@zeroequalsthree8649]

Your humor is top notch, door #3, bwahahaha! Noodling around getting radioactive mineral samples and stuff via international mail delivered to me here in Japan I think I might find myself at door #3 sometime in the near future.

[@KarbineKyle]

"GammaScheiße!" That's a much more fitting name for it! I really like these videos! Your tests, tear-downs, and summaries are top-quality! So are your video editing styles! Thank you very much!

[@project-326]

Thanks, I really appreciate that. Take a look on the channel, there is full review of the GS device too.

[@migsvensurfing6310]

Another drawback on this counter is that they soldered the tube directly to the board instead of using a holder in each end to carry it. This makes it sensitive to drops een at short distances because of the vibrations.

[@project-326]

in fairness, most of the other cheap counters that use clips, solder the tube to the clips.

[@migsvensurfing6310]

@@project-326 They do... Man that is bad. I have just watched all your videos that I have not seen before today. I have been subbed to your channel for a long time and got the first notification today that you have uploaded a new video... I guess it is a YT thing. Your videos btw are getting better and better. Thank you for your time spend.

[@originalmianos]

High quality irony.

[@hoggif]

Am-241 source is mostly about 60kEV, well in the typical lower xray range. After all gamma and xrays only differ by if it is emited by nucleus or generated by other means. A photon is a photon, even if you have two names for it in english. All that matters is the energy of the photon. GM tubes are rather cheap and devices are very simple. You often pay for reliability too, especially if used as a safety device instead of a hobby toy.

[@project-326]

You are absolutely correct in your analysis. The photons don't care/know that they are generated from braking electrons or from other processes, they are identical. But just making that assumption is (i) far less fun and (ii) far less entertaining than taking the subway and running the gauntlet of door number 3...

[@ttgekko]

I would buy the export version with usbc and particle sound for like 40 bucks

[@markrobinson7831]

I agree. Would be good to introduce people to the hobby.

[@hatterfoil]

@ 15:16 I would assume they have plenty of space in MCU for code. It's not a big code and there are no big assets. Biggest asset is font and that's few KB. Internal flash is likely somewhere between 16 to 256k. If the device has logging, I would assume SPI flash is used to store the log not program. Why is it on display board - likely because it uses same SPI bus shared with display and multiplexed by separate CS pin. Also makes it easy to make different versions with smaller or larger or without extra memory. Also if flash dies, makes easier to service but that would not likely be the consideration as it's cheap 30 buck unit.

[@project-326]

I suspect from the power consumption that this is one of the more low cost STM32 clones that is based on an older process node that has a lot higher power consumption and has a high cost for flash memory for the additional layers. Back in the days when I was designing these kind of devices, at 180 nm, adding flash was totally non-viable in cost terms, so I suspect that this MCU is using a low cost external memory with around 32 to 64 K of capacity and running code from a 16 K internal RAM with an overlay structure.

[@hatterfoil]

@14:21 It's not an i2C EEPROM. It's RTC. There's 32k quartz and 2 caps right next to it and on right side there's a button cell battery - I bet it's connected straight to it. Never the less these SO8 RTC chips do have some minimal battery backed user memory to use for settings, but it's like 52 bytes or so. I guess that's 128 bytes - RTC data. Other than that excellent video, thanks for the deep dive.

[@project-326]

Sorry, just got back from a trip back to the 'local' uranium mine, when my family and I went scrumping. I looked at the photo's I took again, and I think you are absolutely correct. It's an RTCC IC. Normally these also have some EEPROM functionality too, usually 128 bits with an I2C interface, but looking at the layout again, it looks more like a SPI interface? Thanks for helping out. I wasn't able to find the datasheet for this particular device yet. If you have found this, I would really like to know...

[@hatterfoil]

@@project-326 Can't really make out the texts on the chips, but from experience of using them last 20 years, there are both I2C and SPI versions. I2C version has extra pin for ALARM/periodic pules signal. Pulse can be used to wake up MCU periodically, alarm can do the same for the set alarm time. With SPI you loose this function as you need extra pin for interface. If would make sense using SPI RTC here as there's no need for these features and SPI interface is already used for display and what I assume to be flash for logs / saved history / whatever. If you'd share the numbers on chips, I can look more into it. The memory on the RTC is all battery backed. Let's take classical M41T11 for example. I2C version. I think SPI vvversion is same but ends in 56. Not sure. Anyway - it has 64 bytes or SRAM inside or rather 64 registers with battery backed power. First 7 of these contain the date and time. 8th contains the settings bits. 64-8=56. You get 56 bytes of battery backed RAM that you can use for cycle counts or some simple settings. Well, I say simple, but if we talk binary, 8*56= more than 400 different on/off type settings. About the MCU process - I don't think it's viable to make the STM32 clone on process that has very high flash cost. I believe Chinese don't use ARM cores for that because they are quite big by themselves. I'd assume that if it has no flash, it must be 8 or even 4 bit like ones in toasters and microwaves and it must be mask or anti-fuse based. Or at best 8051 based. They still do both flash and mask 8051 based MCUs and they are very popular in China. Most LCD and TFT sample code I have seen from Chinese are for 8051. That gives some insight of the primary target. Also most cap touchscreen controllers and USB / Ethernet to serial / SPI converters are 8051 based and most have internal firmware on flash and update-able in very weird ways. So I would assume that if it's STM32 clone, it's more or less with same parameters or it's 8051 clone with either internal flash or mask / anti-fuse ROM. I know it's anecdotal, but I have not seen external ROM for anything except PLDs for last 10 years at least.

[@project-326]

@@hatterfoil thanks for the insight, I also agree with your appraisal. I don't want to disassemble the device any more times, it is a little fragile, though not as fragile a the FNIRSI device, that one is totally out of use now though being disassembled too many times, mind you, I have taken the KC761 apart sooooo, many times and it always works afterwards, so this is not a complaint of Chinese products, just low cost products in general. BTW, this device is my 6 year son's (and youngest child) device of choice. It seems that he has decided that it now lives in the side pouch of his back-pack, I can't wait for what his teacher will say when she finds out that a six year old lad won't go anywhere without a Geiger counter. Actually, I am more worried about the school canteen workers complaining, come to think of it!

[@hatterfoil]

@@project-326 Sure thing, no point in dwelling on exact part nr. Not that it's change anything anyway. I used to have old soviet counter with 4 metal tubes, but it failed. It was sort of pain to fix, because it used only one AA battery, custom discrete switching mode power supply and I think it was 4000 series logic chip analogs. The design was surprisingly good. I believe it used some sub-threshold switching effects to keep the consumption down. I left it for tubes as parts when it finally stopped working. Still have the boards too, maybe I'll reverse engineer it some day. Had idea to make 3d star from tubes and connect it to the FPGA, do some routed propagation delay capture to distinguish which tube was hit first to calculate the radiation direction. But there are so many more useful things to do before, so that's another one for retirement probably. Now I got one of those fancy RADIACODE 102 scintillation based spectrometers. The interface takes being used to and the PC software is as clunky as any other scientific / instrument software I have ever used but other than that, It's a crazy what they can do nowadays with a peace of plastic and a fairly cheap photo-diode. First I was skeptical, but after some days of averaging I could actually find the minuscule K40 decay product traces from a banana. Not that we have days for measurement in case of nuclear disaster. But in that case we don't carte about banana levels of radiation either. We live in North of EU, where stun guns and tazers are equated to firearm thus banned for civilians. I guess if my kids would start using radiation meters in school, I would get asked questions. Do you have actual bad experience with irradiated canteens or it's more of a joke? In post soviet states I come from, we had all kinds of "slightly glowing" things. Officers hand-watches. Granny night stand watches. Kitchen tiles. Toilet seats. Ceramic or glazed plates. Historical park and old town cut rock street bricks. I think craziest thing I've ever seen "glowing" is a Chinese table lamp's foot counterweight sold in our version of what would be a Walmart in US. Under the decorative top the counterweight looked like very rough cast iron, but blacker and much much more porous and with density closer to lead than iron. We laughed here that it's a Chinese nuclear waste disposal program, but I would not be surprised to one day find out that was true. It was in early 2010's.

[@isbestlizard]

This is very cool is there a way to replace the firmware, what microcontroller is the brains of all this? LIke desolder the flash and put your own on or can it be reflashed directly? :D

[@project-326]

I have no idea which of the generic STM32 clones this device uses but there is an unpopulated 4 pin connector next to the MCU that looks like it might be for programming. As for the source code, there is just no way that a company would share that...

[@tahustvedt]

I enjoyed this. I occasionally search for cheap geiger counters but it's hard to be sure what I buy when ordering from Aliexpress so I haven't bothered ordering. If this is improved I will probably end up buying one.

[@Tschubritza]

Will you make a video about the Gamma-Scheiße? :D

[@project-326]

Yes I would love to, but I simply refuse to to pay their crazy prices. Perhaps I will look for a 2nd hand one here.

[@Tschubritza]

What exactly makes it so scheiße though?😂

[@xuNsh1ne]

​@@Tschubritza Never owned a Gamma-Scheiße, but didn't they produce devices with non-replaceable batteries, requiring soldering on a live (high-voltage) device or paying exorbitant prices for a replacement from the manufacturer?

[@dg0mg]

@@xuNsh1ne I don't want to defend the GammaScout - I don't have one either (I do have tens of other devices - historical and modern), but perhaps you shouldn't look at it quite so negatively: it's a pretty demanding technical achievement to build a device that consists of a Single battery works continuously for 10 years. And that was 15 or 20 years ago. For comparison - the Chinese can't manage 10 days today! If all goes well, there might be 100 hours of running time. Of course, the developer also justified the fact that the battery is not in a holder and would be easier to change: Battery holders and corroded contact springs are one of the biggest sources of errors in electronic devices. In this respect, I can understand why he said back then: It's okay to have the battery changed by a professional once every 10 years. But I would actually like the version with a rechargeable battery more.

[@xuNsh1ne]

@@dg0mg Well, 10 years is not bad, but I'd still prefer charging a device every 10 days instead of having the battery changed every 10 years by a professional. Additionally, some people have reported stability issues with older devices at higher dose rates. However, I agree that there are not only negative aspects, and I also don't own a GammaScout, so I can't definitively say if it's good or bad. I've been considering purchasing a used GammaScout because I'm interested in a device capable of detecting alpha decays (probably will just build one myself - doesn't have to be super fancy anyway). However I'm not really interested in buying a device that can't be recharged and requires a somewhat risky battery replacement on a "live" circuit.

[@madmax2069]

You should do a review of the GQ GMC-320 plus V4 (or newer) update the firmware.

[@blkbird2846]

Great channel, you definitely deserve more subs . And can your do a video about budget geiger counters which to buy and which to avoid .

[@project-326]

I'm kinda slowly doing that, eventually I will have covered all the major cheap ones. I prefer to review those as they are more accessible to everyone. Maybe, I will create a device of my own one day that everyone can buy... The VolksGeiger, so to speak.

[@NOLAGNOPROBLEM]

Great content, great info and good humor. To bad computer generated voice? I mean why?

[@project-326]

2 reasons: (i) I have a natural voice that was "made for print..." and (ii) I live in Mainland China, so even a small level of anonymity is helpful.

[@NOLAGNOPROBLEM]

@@project-326 o rly. I would say That's great, been to china many times over the last few years ( I guess bad profession as a seaman). And the grip that the government is having on the people is crazy. Guess everyone is ok ordering products from china but nobody gives a shit how it's all made.

[@project-326]

The government here has basically zero real control. There are about 1.4 billion reasons why everyone here basically does whatever they feel like, so long as they don't mess with the 'boss'. Which ports do you visit?

[@NOLAGNOPROBLEM]

@@project-326 oh to many to remember haha, let's see first comes in mind Nantong, Zhou Shan, Dalian, Xiamen etc. Unfortunately corona ruined the experience in the last few years to truly visit these places

[@ericmc6482]

​@@project-326 'I have a natural voice for print'......and a good face for radio haha. Thank you for your channel, I am an electronics guy learning much and laughing at the same time, two thumbs up 👍 👍.

[@Tschubritza]

How does it calculate the dosis? Is it able to detect the energy of the gammas? More energie gamma quants equal more dosis?? And how does it distinguish between betas ans gammas? It it just an approximation based on the counts per minute?

[@project-326]

all GM tubes based devices make an approximation based upon the energy level of the calibration source that was used.

[@Pentross]

I heard old CRT tv’s emit x-rays, especially if you put a magnet on the screen, perhaps that’s an option?

[@project-326]

nice idea, I don't have one of those though. I often wonder about the days when we had CRT based monitors, unlike a TV set, we had these things placed right next to our heads and would sit right there for hours... Perhaps there is now some historical data that can be accessed for certain types of cancers?

[@madmax2069]

From what I've seen from the research I've done is that CRTs don't. I have an old TV from the 60s that I put my geiger directly in front of the screen and I didn't see any increase over background.

[@Pentross]

@@madmax2069 huh, is it only in the presence of strong magnets then? I never really looked into it

[@project-326]

To be fair, with only, say, 40KV applied potential, the x-rays will be pretty soft. It can't emit any x-rays that are above the applied potential, only lower energies. Typically, the spectral response will start somewhere below the applied potential and slowly rise, to a peak at about half the applied voltage, before falling off again. I 'might' be working on a 'soft x-ray' generator right now - if it works, I'll finish the video, if not, I will just pretend that it never happened...

[@jantepas7511]

Thanks for these deep insights.

[@goldengoddess825]

Can you help me with a problem please? My son is buying a used Japanese import car. I am concerned about the possibility of it having radiation contamination. Can we purchase a Geiger counter to check whether the car has been contaminated? We live in Australia, so can you tell me where can we obtain one that is easy to use and understand please? Thanking you in anticipation.

[@milolouis]

No one reading this will understand what you have been told. There is absolutely no reason that a Japanese car would be irradiated. I am assuming you are not a robot. If you are referring to Fukushima then you do not understand radiation in any way. There is more radiation in China and parts of the US, France and Ukraine than any factory producing Japanese vehicles. I don't know where you got this fear from but it is entirely unfounded and I will be happy to explain any questions you have.

[@goldengoddess825]

@@milolouis It is a USED car which was driven and used close to the site over the period of when the Fukushima incident happened. My son is 24 years old and obsessed with Japanese cars and rightly so, as they are awesome, but I don't know much about radiation as you stated and just watching certain videos and reading certain articles about used cars imported from Japan, certain countries have found lots of radiation in the cars. I will appreciate if somebody can explain whether we can obtain a nuclear radiation meter to check if the car is clear of harmful radiation. I will appreciate any assistance with this.

[@gblargg]

You can probably find a local mineral/rock club and have them sweep it. They search for radioactive rocks etc. I'm not sure exactly what they'd be called but do some searches. Someone from a local university might be willing to use one of their Geiger counters. I bet they'd be happy to set your mind at ease. It sounds like only an actual sweep of the car will be sufficient, which is fine.

[@SuperSkippy87]

Are these available on AliExpress at all?

[@project-326]

as far as I know, they are not on AliExpress at the moment.

[@xuNsh1ne]

Did anyone find a source for those with international shipping?

[@tudor2051]

Great video could you review the Pudibei NR-950 I heard that is a good cheap option but I want to know more.

[@project-326]

The spec looks identical to the HTT-60, ie looks like it uses the same tube. Specifies the same Co60 calibration and even makes the same mistake in the spec when it say 48 KeV to 1.5 MeV (Cs137), what the hell has Cs137 got to do with the spectrum of sensitivity???

[@JohnLobbanCreative]

Do you use an AI-generated voice for these videos, or your own voice? I think you do your own narration, but a friend asked.

[@milolouis]

You must be a robot to ask such a mad question. It's so obviously an awful A.I voice!

[@gblargg]

I asked him recently and he said it's an AI, with fine tuning to get sentences to sound just right.

[@project-326]

It's a text-to-voice tool, my own voice is just horrible. It is a shame because takes so long to constantly re-edit my script at the point of generating the voice to make it sound just half realistic, it takes about 10x longer than using my own voice.

[@JohnLobbanCreative]

@@project-326 Ok I wondered. You really should try one using your own voice and then let the audience decide. Everyone doesn’t like their own voice at first, even radio DJs. Seriously, you should try it!

[@gblargg]

@@project-326 I take it those voice changer things don't help on your own voice?

[@tylervercetti4187]

The brand name was funny af

[@petevenuti7355]

Before you post that video about scalar energy pendants, where can I get that cheap thorium? When the thought emporium made his video, that thorium powder-filled pen was quickly taken off Amazon. I do *_not_* believe the average IQ should be raised by telling people scalar energy is good for erectile dysfunction, but please tell me where I can order these things before you rat on them for their grossly unethical product. Thank you, I also have a few more questions, do you know of a detector almost as cheap that supports alpha detection reasonably well? Maybe even something that has alpha detection and a computer interface for logging?

[@project-326]

The powder, whilst being a lot more dangerous in the simple analysis s also pretty tame in the eventuality, mine only recorded and activity level of about 2uSv/h but I found a pendant on Taobao that recorded 7uSv/h. Here is the TaoBao link... m.tb.cn/h.5MikRA7vUaLGDQb?tk=NsAhWTAuqEw

[@project-326]

As for your second question, I'm working on an alpha spectroscopy video using the KC761... Sorry, I'm pretty slow with my videos but this is just a hobby between work and 3 young kids, which basically means I have about 99.9% of fuck-all time to work on videos!

[@project-326]

And, by the way, alpha spectroscopy is a completely different animal to gamma spectroscopy. They use the same energy axis, but in real terms it is just an analog that has zero bearing of the 'meaning' if you are already working with gamma... lots of new stuff to learn, as I am discovering...

[@petevenuti7355]

@@project-326 I remember trying to be a Mr Mom and get work done on the internet because I was able to stay at home. I had to get a stand-up desk just to keep from falling asleep! Soon as you get a minute of quiet and peace with everyone safe it's hard not to sleep!

[@Ales.2000]

Thorium gas mantles used to be very cheap on Aliexpress, but now all seem to be claimed to be non-radioactive. Does anyone have any experience with them?

[@RadManiac]

You should document radex geiger ciunter. It would be awesome.

[@project-326]

Yes, you are absolutely correct, but really I'm gagging to do one of that POS called the Gamma Scout...

[@RadManiac]

@@project-326 I mean there is nothing spectacular in radex geiger counter, its just a simple device kinda overpriced, but still maybe there are some upgrades that could go in to it.

[@RadManiac]

@@project-326 plus i had a question where you store all your samples, i recently got americium and its just laying on my desk. gamma is scaring me.

[@project-326]

@@RadManiac I hear you, but this is a hobby channel and everything I do is self financed. On top of that, it needs to be able to be bought in China, where I live. The 3rd factor, is getting this kind of purchase approved by the boss, ie my wife....

[@fluxpistol3608]

Is it a Geiger or Dosimeter?

[@project-326]

that is a really good question. A Geiger counter is usually defined as a device that uses a Geiger Muller tube to count the dose rate and often total dose. A dosimeter is used to show total accumulated dose (like the old film badges). Modern Geiger counters are digital so they also can integrate the counts and thus also act as a dosimeter, at least for the duration that it is switched on. As such, this device probably counts as both...

[@fluxpistol3608]

Yeah, seems a bit more geared towards being used as a dosimeter maybe? Hence the lacking "Geiger Noise" maybe? Good find either way

[@project-326]

@@fluxpistol3608 Frankly, the battery lifetime seems a little short for being a dedicated dosimeter...

[@fluxpistol3608]

@@project-326 how short?

[@project-326]

@@fluxpistol3608 The device dimensions are: 150 x 30 x 30 mm

[@tomapc]

19:36 instant sub! 😃

[@RADscouter]

Do you do AI script always? Just curious

[@project-326]

is it really that crap? 😭

[@migsvensurfing6310]

@@project-326 I think it is fine.

[@project-326]

@@migsvensurfing6310 of course I don't use AI script. Contrary to popular belief, AI generates pure garbage...

[@Shinobubu]

Radium poisoning is no joke!

[@project-326]

Yes, 100%. We all know about the tragedy of the "Radium Girls" but what it is usually overlooked, is the effects on the people that worked in the entire industry that supported the radium paint production.

[@1kreature]

Computer voice... Is this AI generated script as well?

[@project-326]

yep, 100%. (The AI does sarcasm too)

[@1kreature]

@@project-326 I get calls with this exact same voice weekly trying to scam via tech support or money back schemes. It would be so much better if you got someone to read the scrips (but a lot more expensive I guess?). And yes, the gamma-scout has issues. I'd love a deeper look into the scintilator designs and possibly a more open-source or expandable one if they exist? Counting/classifying is so much fun, but the power conditioning and signal amplification is not...