Cheap Compact 160m Antenna Ideas

I need a 160m Antenna. Let's look at Inverted L, Sloper, Loaded Vertical a Compact Dipole and the Halo (loop). Let us consider the problem, walk the area and discuss how each would work.
Linear Loaded Dipole: • Small Cheap Linear Loa...
73, Callum.
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[@justinwoolgar9853]

For inter-G a dipole works better than an inv-L. Just put one up; I also could not decide which one to go for. One thing I did notice with the dipole was that when I wanted to use it on a different part of the band where it was going out of resonance the ATU really zapped the power. I have it tuned 1930kHz it will just about do the cw end of the band without an ATU but the SWR is quite high (2.8)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes.. Good data Justin that is for that. So from what I can see, drifting 100kHz away from centre is a bit of an ask.. Copied.

[@rickhunt3183]

I'd try either making the antenna longer or shorter to bring the swr down. 2.8 is really wasting some power. I'm sure you'll get it all sorted out in no time.

[@Rick-se5qm]

This is what I like about your channel. Compared to the keyboard experts, that make assumptions about what happens in the real world, you are out there doing what ham radio is all about...experimenting. I tried draping antenna wire across the tree canopy of 30m high poplar trees. First tried #14 then #12 and finally #10. All broke at some point, #10 lasted an amazing 12 months. lol

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yeah, bloomin trees! LOL

[@timprice1284]

Another great video Callum. 73s ND4A

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

Height and/or space is a problem on top band and this video tackles the problems with so many good suggestions and Ideas. Best 73 G0ACE

[@coolerhash]

Thanks Cal for the great video and it's given me the idea of building a 160 linear loaded dipole might even turn it into a fan dipole as well

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Go for it!

[@2E0VPF]

Halo ! Inspiration for us without a large plot.

[@CaberFeidh]

Wandering about the woods on some old berm full of trees... All we needed was one each, Tony Robinson, and a shovel.

[@ON8EI]

I use 40m of d10 up 22m to a tree and down to 2m above ground. Braid connected by block connectors to one 2m lenght of earth rod. Works great into G land and EI. Cheers Cal.

[@WoodyPhillips]

Cal, for 160 Meters I use a Broadband Terminated Dipole at 10 feet. Each leg is 200' of electric light cord (one half for each leg) winding around the outskirts of my yard.. It uses a 16:1 transformer at the feed end (50' feet coax) and a 1000 ohm 500 watt resister to terminate the two EQUAL length legs. So it forms a a huge NVIS loop and I talk all over the world on it, 160 meters to 6 meters. When I cannot reach them with this, the DX COMMANDER! 80-40-20-15-17-10 comes to the rescue. There is a diagram on my QRZ page. I left out the house. It is screwy as heck and works VERY well. - KJ7YYI

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Hi.. I haven't commented to your post yet, to remind me to check out this antenna you suggest. Looks just fine. But maybe not for me this time because of the tree-line. Thanks though!

[@darrellcollins877]

1/4 wave End Fed inverted L for the win ! I installed one at my QTH about a month ago, no tuner needed, works great

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, but then I have to eat into my 12.4

[@DonzLockz]

You need a trained ferret, possum or squirrel to run all your wires in the trees. :)🐿 Bigger is better if you have the room. ➰️ Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiments. 🍻👍

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Great idea!!!

[@stephensherer9573]

For a limited space 160m antenna I used six 75m inverted V antennas all fed from the same common feedpoint. The feedpoint was at thirty feet. The wire lengths were cut I believe for 3.8 mHz. This was from my QTH at the time in Oklahoma in the center of the U.S. I could receive and be heard by stations on both the east and west coasts when conditions were not to bad during the winter months. About 1500 miles east and west of the qth. I used 400 watts. The feed system was about 54 feet of 600 ohm parallel line. A tuner is required. I used a roller inductor tuner in the shack. I could not have been happier. I had no trees to work with. I used a thirty foot pole to support the feedpoint of six - 75 meter inverted V antennas all fed from the same common central feedpoint. If I were to do it again I would use strings of christmas tree lights. KE4LJH

[@REKlaus]

Another great video. Thank you for taking your time to make these and sharing with us. Want to enter a CW contest but don't know Morse Code? No problem. Using N1MM logger (which is free) you can install FLDigi (again a free program) and run it inside N1MM and it has a Morse code reader and you can use your keyboard to send CW. Just enter the contest as "Assisted" and all is good.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Good idea!

[@ryanjones9305]

My vote is for the inverted-L, saves some time for an extra pint or three afterwards. Cheers!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Saves time? Erm, we'll see about that!

[@gaptastic]

sloper is the easiest, no doubt. Think about the tension points u need for an inverted L

[@gaptastic]

just realized what i said ... sloper is the best if efhw

[@Chris-in-ky-ky4ckp]

I'd really like to see you test the 160m "halo" design (80m with the cut in the middle). That is something I could potentially do in my yard. Thanks as always Cal!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, I need to do that...

[@mattstosh6960]

Love to hear you crunch those numbers in your head. I would have gone with the inverted L - because the darn things work....30 feet high and 100 feet long.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Well, they do.. But so does a dipole :)

[@gravestonemyth]

I learned a tip for those with Hustler 5BTV antenns. You can use an alligator clip to fasten a 17' wire to the shaft coming out of the 80M resonator and send it horizontally to a nearby tree or structure and get great results. It kills the 80M band, but the other bands are unaffected. I even worked some DX using QRP power levels.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Cool

[@wingbyte]

I'd love to see the halo. I have about 2.5 acres and was contemplating a loop, but maybe a halo now. Let's see how you implement it.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Heck, if you have that amount of space, you should beat me to it! :)

[@mewrongway]

Love your Parakeet Callum, Just sits there so quiet on your monitor! lol. I want a 160 antenna with 5db gain lol.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

You and me both!

[@jimjungle1397]

Good timing, 160m = Winter time band.

[@highflyermw0lkx311]

I've tried a base loaded coil and its so high Q, I didn't like it much. For me, definitely an inverted L. Use a spare 10m pole on the edge of your fenced off part to assist in its drooping element. It would be amazing I would say. I've also tried a low doublet and although it tunes up lovely, my dx commander hears much better on topband. Best of luck with it.

[@brambbq6210]

160M FCP Inv-L would be a nice antenna. Pretty effective. And don’t need a lot of wire. Make the special balun. And use a 18m pole. You would have a lot of fun. Looking forward for the video. 73 Bram PH9B.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

But it would mean screwing with my existing..

[@prizeking1647]

Nice land there mate can't wait till I get mine.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Have fun!

[@gpocat4518]

I have a small lot here in US and work 160m. I use an 80m dipole with a trap on each end and another 15 feet on each end to get 160m. My dipole is really a Z, but heck, IT WORKS! 73.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Ah cool!

[@k9eihamradio]

Cal. I’ll tell you what I have been running for a full year. Inverted L. I have an Icom AH-4 at the feedpoint with (32) 10 meter radials. The radiating element is around 46 meters long. I can tune all bands and 160 works great! Vertical portion is 20 meters up, and the remaining go over my QTH!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

That sounds good.. 20m is probably the key!

[@k9eihamradio]

@@DXCommanderHQ yes. I am fortunate to have very tall trees. I think you should do a dipole then if you’re not concerned with low angle radiation patterns. Plus you could run full (legal) power out per the operating class of the contest.

[@PaulGriffith]

I like the halo idea

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, I like too..

[@VincentS-sb2wh]

As an Audiophile you and I both know that there is a quality of sound only obtained by tube gear, selling your Kenwood (I know it is an all-transistor version) and moving to some fancy SDR Flex thing might not appeal in the long run to you well-tuned ear. Really with all your talents in both music and radio I am saddened you are not running some fantastic AM old-school station! Vincent N2QCP

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I agree.. Flex isn't for me. Now, SOME folks are going to love it.. All depends on what you want vs what you need..

[@hamradiofun5527]

I cut a 1/4 wave for top band, a piece of alloy rod a SOTA pole and 2 litres of water. This gave an inverted tick ✓ atu and 5w... On a SOTA summit! A dipole would be interesting

[@rickhunt3183]

I like the RE20 mic. personally like the audio technica at2020 for voice and music, depending on the application and environment. the re20 is dominant in almost every professional setting. I think they like the bass it offers. I like the bird too. I have several parrots. Good video. I always learn something, or see things from a different perspective when watching. Too bad you cant move the whole operation to the US. 73's

[@DXCommanderHQ]

We can't go to the US.. I'm sure we wouldn't get a permit! But that RE20.. Needs a kick, like a pre-amp really (I use a Cloud Lifter for 25dB extra punch).

[@georgezuss2925]

Friend.....have you ever heard the phrase about someone that they "could read the telephone directory and be captivating"?........well you are that man! I have not a clue what a single word of what you just spoke meant. But.......the only disappointment was when you signed off on behalf of you and Django! I am sorely tempted to dust off my old radio theory books of (ahem🤔) 40+ years ago at college as an apprentice telephone engineer and try to catch up.....what could be easier or possibly go wrong, eh?! If you ever decide to do an online podcast or audio book, teaching (I am guessing just even a little of) your radio comms knowledge, please sign me up. Not only is your skill very apparent in your knowledge but equally in your amazing capacity to make a very complex and possibly boring(to the untrained) subject completely interesting. Fabulous vlog, my friend, thank you for sharing and re-igniting an ages-past interest. Take care.......

[@DXCommanderHQ]

George, that is a very pleasant and kind comment. Thank you! PS - It's EASY to get a simple ham radio ticket!

[@jonthebru]

I need a 160 meter antenna too!

[@jonthebru]

My land has a cliff and valley below so a sloper is the way to go. Lots of trees too so that will take some finesse to thread it through.

[@dadandkids5028]

An end-fed 1/2 wave does not need a ground plane, and is efficient. Best to pull it up into a tree using fishing line.

[@neilwilson984]

I'd go with the halo but do it as a folded dipole so smaller area and in square or circular form I believe the impedance should equal roughly 50ohm. PA9x's site describes this for 20m which after reading about it, I now want to build. I doubt I could fit in one for 160 but would be interesting to see you pull it off.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes.. Folded maybe.. But too much wire.. I really fancy a Z shaped linear loaded... We shall see. Will put this in after my break next week..

[@jeffreyreid1729]

On the Nebula I use an inverted L for 160. Works just fine.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Excellent

[@sauroiu5asa696]

GM Cal, I would use and 18 mt pole with capacity hut. A nice and efficent monoband... Avoid the base loading. Ciao

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Problem: I don't want to screw with the 12.4 already up - when I have the woods for a wire..

[@simonm0jqm615]

Nice Parrot

[@SteveG4YTK]

Any antenna is better than no antenna Cal. Many years ago in the 70's my Dad now silent key G4ETA was on what they called topband, 160m. He made a mobile whip for the car and with 10w had great fun. I cant get on 160m so if you ever come up with add on convention for your classic I be very interested.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, 160m mobile was fabulous. I have listened to some very old AM morning nets.

[@dave6501]

Ok Callum. This is what i did and i hope you approve. I corner feed a Dimond. For 160 at field day. I made up of; four 33' army fiberglass 2" tent poles. Each side of the square was 1/4 wavelength of 160meters. Hoping that in worst case it would act like a big corner feed loop and work on all bands. We'll due to the tension you mentioned and the weight; one of the corners snapped in half, and the other now having slack fell over. Lots of cracked fiberglass to show for it and no 160 meter contacts. 🥲 Would I try it again? In a heartbeat; Yes 🙂

[@dave6501]

It may also have been a factor that the army tent poles were made up of 9x(3'-8") sections with a center ish, guy point, and a top, guy point. Only utilizing 3 guys on each ring. In future i think 5 guy points from each ring would have had a better chance of staying up all night. Please Let me know what you think. Ok. Thank-you.

[@dave6501]

Yes Callum. I started off center feeding one side but due to the drooping; i moved the feed point to the corner with a 4 to 1 balun. And I still managed to launch fiberglass bits, 2 county's over 😇. Please try the loop I'm curious as to how well it would work. Love your thought process and what you do please keep it up. Thank-you very much.

[@kevinkc3onohelijeepworld953]

Dual inverted L fed at the apex. If you can use two coaxes to balance feed. I would love to see how it compares to you high end coax ??

[@spakkajack]

i think run it vertical with a with the loop receive. run 400 watts to get around 50w out. may get a lower pattern

[@iainfisher6557]

Have you investigated a 5/8 wave inv L for 160m? The famous Doug De Maw wrote a great article about it. I think 22 ¹/⁴ wave radials and if I recall correctly it was 309 feet of wire with 60ft vert portion. Unusually it was fed with ladder line and performance was excellent.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes the radials are not important.. well they need to exist but 22 or 33 or 44 are all fine.. As would 20! You COULD feed with coax if you made it a touch longer to 3/4 wave.

[@KZ9SEL_Scott]

I have had good results from my inverted L Dx commander, 5/9 plus reports up to about1000 miles away at 60w out. it its a bit narrow banded, the swr curve looks like a smile. I tuned mine to be best on 1.9. I am in the us so 1.9 is the center of the band available to General class hams.

[@andylinton2798]

Maybe a 'Marconi' aka an 'umbrella'? You need a 1/10 wavelength vertical tower or wire, connected to ground and your radial system at the base. At the top, you connect the top guys and they run down to maybe 3m from the ground where you insulate them. This functions as a capacity hat. Also at the top, you connect one or two wires and take them down at a steep angle to a point maybe 2-3m from the base. This is the feed point. If you move that point - the bottom of these wires - closer to or further from the base, the impedance changes and you can get it to 50-j0 ohms. These are used by quite a few local broadcast stations; Radio Caroline's 648kHz tx at Orfordness uses a version of this. Can be very efficient! This may not be feasible using a DXC pole, but some hams might have a 16m tower. Easy to do then!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes.. and as I discovered couple weeks ago, the top hat doesn't even need to be connected!

[@jackK5FIT]

Inverted L. Simple, quick and it works. That would be MY choice. Jack K5FIT

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yeah.. But I have to remove the 12.4 for that.. Options!

[@jackK5FIT]

@@DXCommanderHQ could you remove one element from the vertical that's up and replace with with the appx. 260ft of wire for 160 as an inverted L to the tree in the distance? Certainly not arguing. It's just what I might try first as the simplest.

[@db3mi]

Hi Cal. Give a T out of the 80m Dipole a try. Or on the signature where you already have good ground. Good luck. 73, db3mi

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, with a good ground, base feeding most things would work nicely.

[@glennshubert7271]

I put up an EFHW. 49:1 transformer is 6 ft off the ground, from there 10 guage wire goes up a 24' pole, then about 150 feet sloping up to a tree about 40' high. It zig zags through the tree, then slope down to another tree. where it eventually slopes down about 8' off the ground. I had over 300 feet of 10 guage electrical wire, so that's what I used (yeah it's heavy). Anyway this thing goes up & down and changes direction several times. Very marginal results on 160, but is fantastic on higher band in certain directions. I wonder if you have enough space to bend a dipole or EFHW around to make it fit. 73, Glenn K9OLD

[@A.R.O.T.A.]

Just a thought, have you considered using a Nebula pole at the treeline to do an inverted v configuration for a more omni-directional far-field?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I think low-down would also do same trick..? We'll find out :)

[@rickeaston3228]

Very short loaded antennas are just about as efficient as full size antennas. What is different is that the BW of loaded antennas is small, which is where you really loose. I have made some very highly loaded antennas using very big coils (# 8 wire) with hats and they work well within their bandwidth. But tuners can fix the BW problem if they are very efficiently made.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Agreed, they are efficient, but need an even better ground.

[@CT7ARQ]

Maybe a folded dipole for 160 could make the trick or maybe a crazy ideia that I tryed on mmna is use a nebula pole. Off course you need to load the base because the pole is only 17.5m

[@AmateurRadioUK]

For your case I'm swaying towards the inverted L. I personally would swap the 12m mast for an 18m mast with a single element attached & load it with a coil at the base but as you rightly point out that this is pretty inefficient. My own contest attempts are little more than a lazy bit of fun giving away a few points, so that inefficiency wouldn't really bother me. You could use wire for the upper guys to turn the guy ropes into capacity hats to improve the efficiency? Just a thought. The last 160m SSB contest that I did, I used an EFHW vertical for 20m & tuned the hell out of it to keep the radio happy! Again, that was an extremely inefficient antenna. For someone who takes contesting more seriously & wants to do well, that inefficiency will be a deal breaker. I also really like my EFHW fed with a 49:1 as I've had a lot of success with this arrangement either as an inverted V or an inverted L) on 40m, 60m & 80m over the years.........I'm not sure on the practicality of doing this for 160m though. As you said, it's getting a bit cumbersome so I probably wouldn't try it on 160m unless I could put up at least 2 masts/supports & have the wire under quite a bit of tension. By the way, electric fence wire works quite nicely for this as it can cope with a lot of tension & is very cheap to buy on ebay! Good luck whichever way you decide to do it. Looking forward to seeing the video of your results.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, options.. options.. I really don't want to remove the 12.4 since I use it daily.. However, I fancy maybe an 18m pole with some low bands, maybe 160m, 80m and 40m.. Then ANOTHER DXC.. maybe the Rapide in the corner of the field for upper HF. Good idea.

[@phildurall7466]

Nice Calum .... I would just build off of the 80 meter dipole that you already have installed and do a fan arrangement and run the 160 meter legs up higher ( I think you modeled 3.5 m ). 73 - KF6IF

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Phil, I like that idea!

[@garryhammond3117]

Loop please!! 😁😁

[@stevegordon2869]

I have a 80m delta loop I converted to ocf dipole still hung up as delta loop.have 3ft insulator at ends. 4:1 Balun.88ft one way and 170ish ft the other way. Seems to work all bands. Don’t know how well up at 25ft.have made contacts on it with 500w on 160m.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Lovely!

[@W9HJBill]

What about using your drone with some lightweight fishing line to go up and thread a path through multiple tree limbs? I've done that with my DJI Mini 2 for my 160M EFHW. People think that Pi has something to do with the area of a circle, that just a coincidence. Pi (3.1415) is what you need to multiply any time estimate by to get an accurate number.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

I have a great big catapult things too :)

[@russturner3454]

Top loaded T. The top horizontal part halved and runs in 2 directions opposite each other.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

So remove the 12,4 and put up a T..? Then how do I get back on 80m..?

[@ZL1BQDRoly]

Put up a Signature at each corner of the field and make a horizontal loop about 3 - 4 mtrs above the ground. Feed it in one corner.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Hmmm. But that screws with the field..

[@ZL1BQDRoly]

@@DXCommanderHQ Yes, it is more a "one off" contest type antenna for your setup. I would certainly fill most of UK and some of Our i would think....

[@nickkendall3764]

I would do a T antenna like the broadcast stations do on mw it's just a capacity hat to counteract the reactance of a short vertical way more efficient than coils or linear loading so you could go 10m up a 12.5 pole then as design a flat top but instead do an inverted v coming off the top make sure you don't cone all the way down to the ground say 7 or 8m a side with rope the rest of the way I could modle it in mmana and try sending you the file if you like ?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yeah.. But I have to remove the 12.4 for that.. Options!

[@DominicMazoch]

Great idea! Can reduce it for 80m? Not all homes in TX have sections of land for antenna farms!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes :) Half everything I discuss :)

[@Trent28888]

The linear loaded dipole would be good but on the 12.4 signature u could have a loading coil and then do a remote relay so u can switch it in and out for 80/160M

[@DXCommanderHQ]

COuld do that too.. I THINK (because I'm efficiency mad) that I would need more radials..

[@Trent28888]

@@DXCommanderHQ at that low u could bash in 2 ground rods and connect them to the radial plate and that will help

[@duallong2193]

I have a homebrew 80-10 efhw on a 135ish ft inverted v at 35ft on the peak and if I want to get on 160 I get a so239 with an alligator clip, hook it up to wire and run a 1/8 wave counterpoise directly underneath it. I can tune it around the band by playing with the wire and counterpoise length with a near perfect 1:1 swr. It breaks out surprisingly well locally and half of the united States from DM33 TLDR endfed 1/4 wave inverter v with a single counterpoise

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Perfect!

[@JayN4GO]

What is 1/8 wave on 80? May try this

[@duallong2193]

@@JayN4GO 33ft to 29ft depends on what end of the band you're on

[@JayN4GO]

@@duallong2193 I’ll try that tomorrow. 160 seems to be in bad shape tonight

[@duallong2193]

@@JayN4GO let me know how I goes, interested in seeing if you get the same result

[@radionb3i]

I am helping a friend construct and antenna off the balcony from the top story of a 4th story building with a 33 foot mast. 40 through 10 work great with a 49/1 end fed to a 66 foot wire which extends out the mast and dangles. But how can we get 80??? Tried a coil ....doesn't work. Can I wrap additional 66 feet length of wire around a 5 foot board? Or should we go with 9/1 random wire and use a tuner? We don't have good grounding. What would you recommend? Thanks

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Heck! I would need to see a picture.. Basically you need more length - or more loading..

[@benwilliams8596]

inverted L seems to be the easy way to go

[@Paul_VK3HN]

There's a tradition in Melbourne for portable stations to join a daily 11am 160m AM Net. I built a 40watt AM transceiver and operated it on a nearby hilltop. I used a fence wire as ground, and a 1/4 wave (40m) wire, only about 10m vertical and 30m strung in trees. To match the low feed point impedance I used a Z-match. You can see it all in this short video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5OXiGalZrWpmZI I received good reports from stations up to 25km away. Peter VK3YE also operated portable from about 50km south, but we could not hear each other. By midday the Net was over and propagation dropped. Results would be significantly better late afternoon or evening. I've done this on two other occasions with similar results. A relatively easy 160m option. 73 Paul VK3HN.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Brilliant!

[@nasanction]

We both know the wire would do better than a coil. ;)

[@madcarew5168]

I suppose tensioning horizontal of inverted L.could be done same as train overhead power lines..take a look at the tensioning gear..73

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes.. Lots of tension!

[@harperinnes8517]

Callum, Here in Australia we have AM Broadcasters that have very small towers with Top Loaded Capacitance Hats, it would be alot more efficient than base loading on your mast Maybe this may be your solution? Best of luck mate

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Maybe.. But I have space for the dipole..

[@np3jd182]

jummm HI Boss, I 've used a G5RV on 160 with some tweeks. jijijiji

[@Testalan1212]

Dipole as you have the space and coax feed.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Like it Alan!

[@jeffharris6127]

Calam, could you find room for a half square on 160m?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Not vertically polarised, no :)

[@sv4rin]

Greetings from Greece / SV4RIN !!!!!! I am facing a ‘’limited space’’ situation and I would need your guidance : there is a Hy-EndFed , 20meter long wire antenna, and a 9meter long fishing pole. If I twist the antenna around the pole ( the entire length ) , will I get myself an actual working …thing ????? Thank you for your time

[@DXCommanderHQ]

It will work, yes. Depends on how efficient you want it. But everything works (either better or worse!) :)

[@sv4rin]

@@DXCommanderHQ Thank you , kind Sir. 73 de SV4RIN

[@JReed305]

For my lot an inverted L is about my only option and even then I am about 6m short. Don't think any reasonable amount of droop with make up for that. Maybe something with a 9:1, will have to look at that.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Why is Inverted L the only option when we have space for a dipole..?

[@JReed305]

@@DXCommanderHQ I said for my lot lol. For your space I am torn between the two.

[@WU3Shamradio]

Could you sacrifice 12m and run 160 as an inverted l without mucking up the rest of the bands on a 12.4?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Well, anything in the centre of the field would probably cock-up the 12.4.. Good idea though.

[@rredbeak]

160m dipole please

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Copy W5JGV's Treetenna the tuning coil+tuning capacitor goes around the tree earth goes to an earth spike, and the center of your coax goes to the fifth turn from the earth going to the earth spike, You should be able to get a SWR of 1.1:1, the Tuning capacitor will be protected in a waterproof fiberglass cabinet attached to the tree.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Portable!

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

@@DXCommanderHQ Not portable unless you want to make the coil assembly in two parts to clamp around the trunk of the tree but in such a way that all part of the coil mate up properly so that it operates as intended if you can make contact with the W5JGV you might ask him about it.

[@alexdodd3465]

Peter parrot spotted again he's the local repeater lol if you put it on ya shoulder will you be a pirate then?

[@Ei2iP]

Using my 18M vertical for 160m woth remote tuner, can easily work NA on cw with 100w...did it last night 🌙 Without remote tuner, too many losses.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes Robbie, if I had the space, a centre-loaded 18m pole would be nice with a vertical and maybe more radials.. Next job!

[@Icycoldcoke]

i know to know what a coil looks like one the bottom of the 12x4

[@kazcat8096]

With haveing a small garden i use my 12m centre loaded virtical on 80m but adding a coil at the base 8in diameter coil it works top band ok i have multiple taps so i can pick the part of the band i need i dont need a atu i have a home made capacitor box that connects across the coaxl cable on 80m i need 330pf and on 160m i use 1000pf i have no trouble working the states with 100w (1845khz) i have tryed inverted L anttena verry good for dx a inverted v end fed would be verry good inter g and Eu lands good luck on your quest chris G0WFH

[@chrisbartlett6022]

If you go the loaded dipole route would you find it easier to run it along the field line rather than in the woods? Only mentioning it because sometimes you can get very focused on a problem and not see something it is easy to see, sat in a chair watching KZbin :-)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Chris, by all means come and do that for me! :)

[@chrisbartlett6022]

Not sure you would want me to help at the moment. Probably fall off the ladder :-)

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@chrisbartlett6022 ok

[@brotheradam]

to be honest, If I knew no one would be around it when I used it, I might try to use a tuner on the fence..lol

[@dasy2k1]

Space for a 40x40 square loop?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Not really.. I was looking at maybe a triangle but landlord doesn't like to see wires, so I need to keep it in the tree-lline (previous agreement)

[@jptucsonaz8503]

Seems like you have a lot of space there... You've got tons of wire... And as it turns out - you have a bunch of fiberglass poles. As you said, leave the 12m alone, as it works. Don't fix what's not broken 🤨 So, with that; I'd put up up a full wave 160 horizontal loop at 32 feet. No radials, a 4:1 Balun - simple straight forward. Known performer and super quiet on RX. 73

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes, ideally we need approx 40m x 40m and that's pretty hard.. I don't want oblong either, that comes with screwy pattern. Good idea though!

[@temporarilyoffline]

What's the best time of day for 160M?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Evenings / night time I would say. Heck, I'm not sure.. I'll be new at it!

[@baikushex0et682]

Sunset to sunrise 😂

[@JulianHammondCresum]

what about a Half-Square antenna

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Erm.. Bit difficult for 160m :)

[@eoinm0nvk110]

Ask Peter Cal, he always wants to get involved....

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes!

[@g4lmn-ron401]

Messing about in the trees is just not going to be easy. Loading coils are lossy and sharp on the ATU. I would do the L, easy(er) to put up and tune. Coax loss at 160m is not an issue.

[@andylinton2798]

Or a T instead of an inverted L! More omni directional. or a Kinstar - a vertical with four horizontals!

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yes Andy.. I do like the T, but it's more DX maybe than I need.. Options!

[@michealbell5042]

You could build a mag loop.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Erm.. Why would I want to do that when for £10 I can put some wire up?

[@michealbell5042]

@@DXCommanderHQ You said anyone have ideas please comment .It is small and has good angle of radiation. Doesn't matter anyway build what you want.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

@@michealbell5042 Ah yes I see! :)

[@dandypoint]

Suggest an inverted L a bit longer than 1/4 wave length. That gets the real part of the impedance up near 50 ohms and makes the input impedance inductive. With a variable (or the right fixed cap) you can cancel the reactance and end up with a very good match. One ground rod will work pretty good but the more radials the better. I never used more than 3. The dipole needs to be high for any low angle radiation and that means 120 ft for a quarter wave or 240 ft for halfwave. The inverted L vertical portion should be as high as you can get it but I worked a lot of DX (DXCC in fact) with 40 feet vertical but now have 60 ft. Overall wire is about 165 feet but not critical. Here is a more detailed explanation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iny2lmOZhrCAeNU

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Well.. I "might" disagree.. Inverted L needs same amount of radials as a regular vertical and most folks achieving around 50 ohms anyway. But thanks for the input.. I'll file that away for a rainy day when I can't tun an Inverted L (built MANY for 80m in the past).

[@dandypoint]

@@DXCommanderHQ the number of radials is a never ending discussion! From a practical point of view you do what you can, what you can afford, and have time for. I tell people not to get too concerned with perfection and think they have to have an elaborate ground system to do well. It’s really hard to tell only a 2 or even 3dB difference. In my case I have worked KH6 on 160 SSB with only a inverted L and a single galvanized pipe as a ground rod. Not very good but it worked for a lot of countries on 160. I have also never used more than 3 radials and worked 160 DXCC with it. So we know it “works” but we don’t know how well. I presently use two radials and a ground rod. If you look up N4DJ in the CQWW160CW contest for 2011 through 2013 you will see results for my Inverted L and 1, 2, and 3 radials. Same for the ARRL 160 contest for 2012 through 2014. I think 24, 27 and 33 countries is the best I have done in a CQ 160 contest and 22 countries in an ARRL 160 contest. Six of those contests were from 650 to 827 QSOs. So I do speak from some experience with inverted L antennas and a lack of an efficient radial system. I don’t do a lot of SSB but in the 2013 CQ160SSB contest I don’t think 528 QSOs and 19 countries was too bad for any inverted L. Considering who beat me in Virginia had the highest score in the USA, I did not feel too bad being number 2 in Virginia that year. Again with the same Inverted L and I think two radials that year.

[@arthurgumbus3969]

I would do a BIG inverted L off your 7M vertical Commanderl.... the huge span of woods is a nightmare.. too much brush and low trees... WHAT WILL HE DO? I do like the Horizontal Halo Loop idea... but the Dipole is good but will be challenge with the BRUSH. Stay tuned. Art W1SWL🤨

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Arthur, haha.. That sounds like a trailer to a movie :)

[@BobHolowenko]

+1 vote for Inverted L

[@BobHolowenko]

Also, May want to consider a loop.

[@mickwood4641]

After watching your video the loop looks like most Amateurs would get away with ... Mike Manchester ...

[@rredbeak]

i was taught that anything base loaded coils were incredibly lossy...center loaded would be much less lossly...so if youre using a verticle not for 160m its lossly to start with BUT then adding base coil makes it far more lossy...no win situation

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Yep. That's why I prefer the dipole :)

[@N0JL-John]

Does Peter talk?

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Oh yes!

[@Thomas-ZET]

EFHW, 203 feet of wire and a 9-1 unun, just may do the trick?, just an idea Good luck

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Right.. An end-fed is a good idea and removes the problem from the field to the woods - I like that. But then again, if I'm going to start threading wires, I might as well go dipole..

[@don_n5skt]

Why not an Inverted L and run it out to your portable mast over the trees? BTW, 160 reminds me of this video by a guy you might now. Love this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ6xoo1rbLWems0. Or maybe again a delta loop using the portable mast as one point in the loop. Then fly the wire bits over the trees with the drone.

[@baikushex0et682]

Callum Are you busy tomorrow? I need some help getting up a 160m Vertical Flights to kyrgyzstan arent that dear 😂 73 de EX0ET

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Use a big coil! LOL

[@koenraadderoeck9045]

Maccalum,litle more and sch must your to the meadhuis for a mond wit ambulance to the maedhuis bringing

[@davidrichter9164]

🥪

[@VK4VO]

Rather than run a new length of wire,,,, if your aim is a temp ant wire for 160m for your comp, why don't you just add to the 80m wire ant. Feed point already in place.

[@DXCommanderHQ]

Perm

[@paulsengupta971]

@@DXCommanderHQ I keep thinking that the quickest solution would be to add coils plus a bit more wire to the ends of the 80m, the coils to act as combined loading coils and traps so it still works on 80m.