Cheap, Fast, Match Ammo?

[@raptorshootingsystems3379]

When I started shooting service rifle competition to 600 yards 25 years ago. I bought bulk quantities of Winchester primed brass, got an 8 pound jug of Varget and bought bulk quantity 77 grain Sierra Match Kings. It took me to high master so clearly worked: I would sell my once fired brass for a dime each because time has value and my time was better spent on the range. 25 years later I have designed multiple cartridges for competition as well as hunting. The keep it simple principle applies to design as well. Great combinations work even when loads are +/- .2 grains. If it makes you feel better to weight sort brass; weigh powder to less than .1 grains and do all the bench rest tricks, have fun. Ultimately it is learning how to read the wind and hold consistent positions that counts the most.

[@retirednobaddays456]

I shoot a Colt LE6940 with a 16" barrel which is basically a M4. My cheap round is a Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT (9 cents), my best round is a Sierra 77gr HPBT (27cents). I reload the 55gr rounds on a Hornady Lock-n-load AP progressive press with Lee dies and get on average, 1.5 MOA, 5 shot groups. I reload the 77gr on a Forester single station press with Forester dies, measuring each charge and get on average, 1.0 MOA, 5 shot groups. It takes me about an hour to setup and make 25 rounds on the single station Forester press. To setup, run and fix primer issues on the progressive press I can make 200 rounds in 2 hours and about 400 in 3 hours. The cost difference between the two is bullets (9-27=18cents), powder (8-10=2cents) total of 20cents. So if I shot 2000 round a year it would cost me $400 more per year for ammo and shoot a round that would be somewhere between 1 and 1.5 MOA. I bet I would see 1.25 MOA groups with my rifle. So does it make sense to make semi-match ammo? With a custom AR like yours I would give it a try.

[@starbuck1776]

The best part about using the 75 BTHP is that they kill better, therefore making your ammo more efective for home defense as well!

[@drmaudio]

Good to know.

[@neilharris4462]

Sure it may be a little bit more expensive, but far cheaper than factory 75gr loads. Well worth the effort in my eyes. An automatic powder dispenser may be an option to accurately/confidently dispense powder.

[@drmaudio]

Good point. I guess the Hornady Steel Match would be the closest factory load to what I am trying to do, but I'm still saving 15 cents or so over that, and quite a bit more over other factory match options.

[@RoninTXBR549]

Two things I would recommend: 1) Use the best powder dump you can buy, like benchrest use. 2) Using same head stamp brass, trim them all to same length. Otherwise, I agree with what you're doing, especially using Hornady match bullets. Their 75gr BTHP Match has served me well in competition out to 600 yards.

[@drmaudio]

I do trim all my brass to length. Thanks for the input.

[@Bortamert]

Love your videos and the tips! I would rather shoot every round precise similar to you than pour rounds down range. Reloading adds so much value to shooting as a hobby or even self defense. I like your idea

[@drmaudio]

Thank you, I agree.

[@oriewall]

Ive been doing this with same components for awhile and it will work well, watch the sales for bullets and buy in lots of 500 or more, cfe223 has been very available and relatively cheap. The only diff is I weight each charge without much loss in production. I use a 1:7 twist barrel for the heavier bullets. Otherwise its all good.

[@drmaudio]

Thanks for the input. I have a 1:8. It shoots the 75s and 77s well, though I don't know that I could go much heavier.

[@drmaudio]

I'm afraid there is more lore then science that goes into that one. Mathematically, the ideal twist for a bullet the length of the 75 grain Hornadys (.981 long) is 1:9.1 with a jacketed lead bullet, and 1:8.2 in a copper solid. 1:7 was originally chosen to stabilize tracers, which are longer yet, and does a great job on 77s and 75s too, but can have issues with light weight varmint projectiles (under 50 grain) where 1:8 can still do ok there. Perhaps for this reason, 1:8 has become the most popular twist in match barrels. It would be interesting to test them side by side, but I suspect that as 1:8 and 1:7 is solidly stabilizing bullets in that length range, other factors would end up making a much bigger difference down range.

[@drmaudio]

2/2 I should note that the mathematical "Ideal" twist above is the slowest twist that will reliably handle the job, and assumes a 2700 muzzle velocity. In reality, a 16" 1:9 barrel will will probably be closer to 2500fps which puts it a bit on the edge and may not stabilize, where a 20" of the same twist would be fine (due to the higher MV). The median acceptable twist for a Jacketed .981 length .224 projectile is about 1:7.7 at 2500fps (slower twist can be used with faster MV), meaning that a .981 (Hornady 75g BTHP) or .994 (Sierra 77) will both be solidly stabilized by a 1:8 or 1:7 in any normal velocity range, but a 1:9 barrel will be more velocity dependent with projectiles in that length range

[@pr4runner]

Love the Hornady's in 75 grains. Would love to try the new Sierra 77's with the polymer tips. That said, I pan weigh 24 Gn Varget for the 75 gn Hornady. Yes time, but it is minute of clay at 600 yards if you can call the wind. I get what you are doing and like it.

[@drmaudio]

Thanks. I use Varget in my .308 loads, but I find I can't drive the 75s quite as fast in with it in my .223 AR, perhaps due to my 16" barrel. I have wanted to try the Hornady ELD match projectiles (With a polymer tip similar to the new Sierras) as well as the Sierras, though the cost makes them less desirable for the goals of this particular project.

[@Slightapex]

If you run out you can use H335 in place. They are virtually identical. I use the exact same weights of each for my 55's & 69's.

[@drmaudio]

Good tip. I have some 335 sitting around. I find it to be a little more temperature sensitive then CFE223, but it should work fine in the cooler months.

[@RhinoViper]

I get higher velocities with H335 than I do CFE 223 with a 16" barrel ... does that seem to be the case for you guys as well?

[@drmaudio]

I have actually found the opposite with the 75s, but the difference I found is negligible. There are published 5.56 pressure loads for H335, where I haven't seen any for CFE223, so if you're loading to those pressures I don't know (I did not test above 223 pressures). The real reason I went with CFE223 is it's relative lack of temperature sensitivity, which is important here in AZ. A lot of otherwise great powders (6064 and RE15 come to mind) will really open up the groups at Arizona summer temps.

[@RhinoViper]

My testing has only been done with the 55s thus far....and to be far I could do a lot more testing to know for sure...but so far I've liked the results from the H335 in terms of velocity.

[@dudedude2207]

Where did you go?

[@StephenB2]

Great idea!

[@drmaudio]

Thank you. So far, so good.

[@arshooter1]

55 grain bullets work best in a 1x12 twist barrel.

[@drmaudio]

Generally true. I don't have any 1x12. All my ARs are 1in8 or 1in7.

[@JunkfoodZombieGuns]

This is funny. About 2 hours ago, gavintoobe uploaded a video on loading budget precision .223 ammo. Maybe that can help steer you in the right direction. I like the idea and think you are on to something. I think it might pay off, kinda like the 5.45 ammo by Hornady.

[@drmaudio]

I'll check it out. Yeah, Hornady has their Steel Match 75 grain that is kind of the same idea, and it is pretty reasonable at 35-40 cents/round, but I need to be closer to .25/round to keep up the volume I want.

[@Marksman2oo7]

I'm sorry but when is a civilian going to be forced to engage a target at 600 yards?

[@drmaudio]

We're talking about match ammo. You know, for matches.