Check Out Solar EVs, Aptera, Lightyear 0 and The Sono Sion

A holy grail on par with the nuclear cars of years past, solar electric cars don’t claim to do all their driving powered by the sun, but maybe all the driving you really need.
0:00 Solar cars
1:03 Lightyear 0 Solar EV
3:18 Sono Sion Solar Car
5:26 Aptera Solar Vehicle
8:15 Is a Solar EV the choice for you
10:02 Solar can be a safety net to reduce range anxiety
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[@paulvansteenberghe4644]

In the early 2000s I converted an S10 pickup to solar electric. Instead of a carpenters rack, it had a 1.1 KW solar array. Being in Maine, I drove it mostly between March and November and in that time drove about 3000 miles on sunshine, the rest from a plug. The pickup used lead acid batteries, weighed about 5000 lbs, could do 0-60 in about 5 seconds, had a 90-100 mile range and could carry a 1000 lb payload. In 8 years it drove 25,000 miles on sunshine. Total cost of conversion, about $12-15K.

[@bobhilder1469]

Way to go!

[@sharonbraselton4302]

telsà cellß solid sta barre groh vaiper more ràbge théñ 11⁰ miíe per chare

[@deanmcmanis9398]

This was a well presented, even handed look at solar assisted EVs. Kudos CNET! I have my preorder in for a 400 mile, AWD (0-60 in 3.5 sec) model with the full solar package (40+ miles on a sunny day). I really like Aptera's idea of designing an EV that simply uses less energy. It is more aerodynamic, has lower rolling resistance, in-wheel motors, and the solar power assist. The result is using less batteries but getting more range, and less dependence on charging and the grid.🏎🌞

[@Scott93312]

I would like to get one, but I'm a big guy and they look like they're on the smaller side. I'm not certain how comfortable I would be making that my daily commute vehicle.

[@billthacet]

Although Aptera has been around as such since 2005, after the original creators left the company due to disagreement over the companies direction, the company went dark and was liquidated in 2011. In 2019, it was restarted by the original creators who were now able to make use of an improved electric infrastructure and updated technology. Aptera is actually fairly roomy on the inside for the occupants, and includes 25 cubic feet of cargo space in the rear, with enough room for a person to comfortably lay out flat.

[@jaybusby8299]

I sat in one at the show in Long Beach. The biggest surprise for me was how roomy it actually is. Looks can be so deceiving.

[@garydmercer]

The light-year one is outradegeously expensive. I ordered an Aptera. Lets see if it makes it to market--I'm hoping it does. The key to efficiency, aerodynamics and light weight are very important

[@robertd9850]

Agreed. I ordered one to drive and one to sell. I told my neighbor I had doubts that I would ever see it in my driveway but I'm hoping to be proved wrong. If it works as advertised, Aptera is a huge game changer, not just another me too EV.

[@citynomad13]

The idea with the Lightyear 0 is the same as with Tesla Roadster, the first one. Limited series to high price to test new technology and concept. The next one will smaller and go down in price. Same as Tesla. Country of origin... Netherlands!

[@jamdoodles]

Lightyear One has a custom-sized wheel, too, so even if you do want to spend a quarter million dollars on a car, you have to get the custom-sized tires for it every time you need new tires.

[@darthsirrius]

I would absolutely buy a Sonos if they were going to sell them in America. Since they aren't, I preordered an Aptera. I live in an area where it's sunny enough, that I may legitimately never have to charge it, though more likely maybe only a couple of times a YEAR.

[@SSS-mp8th]

The aptera would make a really good commuter. Unlike most my job can't be done telework even though it's an office job and I commute 60 miles per day. The 250mile version would be fine so under 30k with a couple options is quite decent.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

125 one fast cheà eaçh wwsy

[@AverageJoe483]

Most can’t telework haha

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@AverageJoe483 I think he's saying most office people can telework. Of course, they're wrong about that too😅

[@adrianmagnus3355]

Keep in mind because the battery is so small it can also be charged very quickly from a simple 110v outlet

[@kgamaseg]

I really like the Aptera. In Texas, the 1,000 mile range model comes in mighty handy.

[@KenOtwell]

My wife and I (no kids) are apartment dwellers in a medium-sized city. Our 4-story parking garage has an open roof on 4 where no one parks because of the hot sun on their car, the top floor is mostly above the shadow-line for neighboring buildings. (There is also a basement EV charger for residents)... Aptera would be a perfect vehicle here! Can't wait until its actually produced.

[@JosephWall117]

Another thing about the Aptera, or any other future extremely lightweight electric vehicles, is that they'll charge just fine with a regular outlet, like 100 miles overnight. The battery is small, and doesn't need an at-home level 2 charger to get usable range. And once you've done your commute and it sits in the parking lot, you get maybe another 5 or 10 miles while you're working. That's a 110 mile commute done off a regular 110v outlet at home on the cheap, something unachievable with a Nissan Leaf, or any of the other nearest price competitors, all of which would require you to install a level 2 charger or at least have a usable dryer outlet somewhere to do even an 80 mile commute, which you might not be able to do if you don't own the property. This opens the car up to being bought by suburb renters and the rural poor, and might just be a step up out of poverty for some. Think about it like this; If your car payment is about the same as any other decent new car, but you're outlaying practically nothing in fuel and very little in maintenance, you've just divorced yourself from oil and could potentially be saving hundreds of dollars per month. That kind of savings can compound if you were to use that money wisely. Especially if you're doing a commute like mine which has cost me on average about $350 in gas alone. I could do that commute in the Aptera for about $30 or $40 per month with my utility cost. Even if I have to pay to replace the entire battery in 8 years, it'll still be like half of what I would have spent on gas to go the same distance. That's a lot of money to someone making like $45k/yr who has to commute long distance to affordable housing (I've driven 200k miles over 7 years, only commutes, no vacations or road trips). You hit the nail on the head with the prepper community interest, but I think it goes further. A lot of people just want to unshackle themselves from unscrupulous profiteers. Here's a vehicle you can buy that's incredibly cheap to maintain compared to a gas powered car because it has far less moving parts, so once you buy it, it's not a money pit like a regular car, and it doesn't take gas so that's another bill gone, and it's hyper efficient to the point where it charges on a 110v so it's not even gonna be a strain on the grid or your power bill, so it's sustainable. If this thing had existed 7 years ago when I bought my current car and I bought it instead, I'd be like $50k richer right now, and that's if I only just put the cash in a savings account and did nothing useful with it. Something to think about.

[@nullpointer782]

Aptera claims 150 miles of range in 12 hours from a standard outlet.

[@Aaron-xr7oc]

They are also working on quailifying for the tax incentive , which makes it around $18k right out the door! Super affordable!

[@RyanWilliams222]

That’s interesting. I was just arguing with someone about how 120V charging is a recipe for disaster with fully electric vehicles. (I own a Chevy Bolt and it was not practical for me, even with a pretty modest commute.) However, if you can suddenly go three times as far per kWh because your car is a hyperefficient two-seater, that might actually work. The biggest counterpoint I can see to your argument is that we likely won’t see huge adoption of a two-seater, because if there are more than two people in your family (e.g., kids), it’s kind of a dealbreaker.

[@jimj2683]

Another point is that the battery will last much longer because you don't need to fast charge it. Fast charging on the go can be almost as expensive as filling gas these days.

[@ramblerandy2397]

8:17 As a BEV owner who can't charge from home, but only at work [one of the worst scenarios you would think] I find my VW ID3 to be MORE convenient than an ICE car, not less. There's no warming up delay in the early morning before work, in fact it slowly pre-conditions the cabin every day. You just get in and go, and once a week or fortnight you plug -in. It takes 30 seconds to bring out or stow my charging cable. So no trips to smelly petrol stations anymore [and boy does petrol or diesel smell when you're not used to it], which is an inconvenient trip I don't miss. And on top of that, charging at work in the UK is free. So my BEV saved me £1200 in the last year, or nearly £2000 if I extrapolate the recent price hikes to a year, on fuel. And my car charges while I work which I can kep track of if I want to. After 16 months of BEV use [and not a single service required] I can say that there is NO downside to this. These solar/battery cars are just beautiful icing on a very nice cake. Gotta admit, I love an Aptera.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

If your commute is short, even 120v charging is fine. That said, it's quite easy to add 240v unless you only have a 100amp break box

[@necrojoe]

I wish VW sold the ID.3 in the US. I have an e-Golf from 2015, and back thenn there were a number of compact, 4-door EVs available (Ford Focus, Honda Fit, Nissan Leaf). Today, the only compact options are the Chevy Bolt (blech...) and the Hyundai Kona crossover.

[@ramblerandy2397]

@@necrojoe It's funny, but when I mention to many North American drivers about the VW ID.3 they often reply, "we don't buy smaller cars." Well, clearly Americans do. It's just a perception amongst those who don't that that the whole car buying public don't. I repeat, on average, American are shorter than Europeans, so where's the problem? And the ID.3 interior is way bigger than a Golf, about the same size as the ICE Passat, which is a bigger car. Maybe VW will ship to Canada or Mexico. Then you can get one.

[@RyanWilliams222]

@@veganpotterthevegan Gotta disagree with you on the 120V charging thing; I think you should really plan for 240V if you own an EV. My commute is 25 miles each way, nothing crazy, and I couldn’t break even with 120V charging. Even if you have a short commute, let’s say you take a longer drive one day. With 120V charging, it could literally take two full days to charge back up to full. Conversely, 240V charging will pretty much guarantee you’ll have a full charge when you wake up each morning.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@RyanWilliams222 all I'm saying is that some people really can't do 240 and 120 is plenty with a short commute

[@JohnboyCollins]

With enough range you can actually absorb the occasional long trip. With 1000 miles of range and 40 miles/day of solar charging I think I'd basically never have to plug in, pretty compelling.

[@jamdoodles]

I've got a 1,000 mile Aptera on order. Perfect for me & my drive-all-over-the-place job which takes me to places that have never even heard of a supercharger.

[@oO0Xenos0Oo]

This would be perfect for carsharing. The car just sits somewhere in the open and is usually driven only for a short distance. Between customers it can charge itself. Also there is no need for employees or customers to move the car to a charging station that often.

[@dvc1867]

The panels aren't providing enough range for something like that, these need to spend the vast majority of the time charging if they are solar only, the range they get per day is small. Sharing it would make that unfeasible unless each person is only doing a few miles

[@user-bp8yg3ko1r]

Brian Cooley is just such an amazing presenter, keep it up!

[@joshhillis7388]

🤣🤣🤣 did anyone else notice at 4:47 the guy using a chop saw backwards?? Love the attempt to show utility, just make sure it looks legit too lolol

[@bobhilder1469]

I did! I also noticed he wasn’t wearing eye protection!

[@charangohabsburg1]

Yeah, that one was plain stupid. Very bad advertising, can't get over it.

[@ApteraOwnersClub]

To make solar work well you need to make the car as efficient as possible. Hence the Aptera.

[@bobhilder1469]

While Aptera is efficient, it isn't "as efficient as possible". LightYear 0 is pretty efficient too, by the way.

[@azr2d1]

@@bobhilder1469 most efficient of the 3 mentioned here. by far. Since the average commute falls within the 40 mile recharge, you will hardly ever have to charge it. On top of that. when you do charge it, a simple 110 will be sufficient for overnight.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@azr2d1 By far? Really? Show your work if you can. You better start with the definition of "efficient". Also, have you checked out LightYear's claims yet? Over 40 mile per day from solar too and it carries 5 adults.

[@jonsek]

@@bobhilder1469 Efficiency is how far the vehicle will travel with the energy available. I'll compare specs, rather than show my work; Lightyear 0: Drag coefficient of 0.19, weighs 1,575 kg, 388 miles with 60kWh battery. Aptera: Cd of 0.13, 950 kg, 600 miles from 60kWh. But really, why would we want to compare? They are different designs and market niches.

[@joelroth3651]

@@jonsek well put! And your stats are correct.

[@robertkirchner7981]

A significant advantage of Aptera's extreme efficiency is that if you rent your home, you can charge 100-150 miles overnight on a regular 120v extension cord thrown out the bathroom window.

[@rudyrudelaemmerhirt]

The fisker ocean will also have a solar roof, solar cars are the future and I look forward to the ocean in 2022 the next (affordable) lightyear 2 in the future and the aptera in 2023 to come out in the USA!

[@evolv.e]

Have preordered two Apteras. My son & I are looking forward to owning/driving them soon!

[@Kukaboora]

Exceptional report on ev and sev . Aptera is probably leading the pack with the most efficient energy per mile operation, only if Aptera can actually in production. Looks to me, the future belongs to solar powered vehicles. With the possible advances such as Perovskite solar panels, day to day commute of 100 miles could be totally free. Aptera has such a promising and advance design concepts, just wish it can overcome the initial production hurdle. If it can, it is the only name you talk about daily in a few years in the sev space.

[@ModernSunlight]

great review! I think the Aptera wins as until Doc invents the flux capacitor, or a new solid state, supercapacitor, etc... technology rolls out, it will all be about efficiency. But more than simply weight, efficiency gains are in aerodynamics.

[@2cartalkers]

These companies keep pushing the electric envelope ever wider.

[@TonyStark-wr7ob]

Aptera with 1000 miles would be the perfect vehicle. Not a fan of electric cars but this one looks so futuristic. Wish it came in a 4 seater configuration. Still might get the $50k version. Would be dope to drive this around. Def would turn more heads than a lambo.

[@Carl_in_AZ]

🔌🔌I told my friend that owns a McLaren, two Ferraris, and a Porche Panaram GTS that I would get more looks at the local monthly car show with a $25,900 Aptera which is faster than his Porche from 0 -60mph it drives him nuts.🔌🔌

[@jamesloehr641]

They will likely make a 4 seater version later on. They already have plans infact to do so. However it would be heavier and cost more and would need 2 wheels in the back for the extra weight. So slightly less aerodynamic also with more rolling resistance. But they can still make a 4 seater more efficient than any other on the market right now. Also it would likely have more room for more solar panels. But if this car is very successful, which I think for working class buyers it will be very popular. Production ramps up with more plants and greater economies of scale. We could see the price actually go down also. Specially with newer battery tech that uses cheaper more abundant materials.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

ther solàr ektrç 4 seater óñly 19000 155 mioe teksa ceks 179 mioe rangre

[@AM-bw7hv]

I'm just waiting for the Aptera!!

[@RT-wl7io]

I preordered my Aptera launch edition. I work 25 miles away and this is perfect. It trickle charge while under the sun and I will probably never need to charge it. I don't have a solar roof at home so this makes total sense to me. This Jetson type space-car is gonna be the next snotty hollywood car, I mean autocycle.

[@peterfessier9780]

The Aptera has a calculator on it’s website that will tell you how many times you would charge based on where you live. However, it doesn’t take into account the size of the battery. I’m guessing if you have a 1000 mile battery you won’t go as far on a solar charge due to the weight. I think it’s a bit misleading for them to not mention that. The Sion seems to be the most practical of the three as it would have the utility of a hatchback without the awkward nature of the Aptera. I find the solar car interesting, that’s why I’m here, but as a homeowner, I’m thinking the way to go is to have solar panels on my house that can help charge the car amongst other things.

[@cesartrujillo4190]

Thanks for being open minded.

[@tophlaw4274]

As always, I greatly appreciate your regular breakdowns on EVs & their potential future ubiquity, Brian. Perhaps the industry needs to include electric range in "mpa" (or miles per amp) along with total battery capacity & full-sun solar charging capacity (amps per hour instead of watts per hour; or also converted to miles per amp)... unfortunately the solar numbers will be ridiculously small when compared to their mpa rating which is not something car makers would probably want to advertise today. Marketing departments like big numbers. :D Oh well, looking forward to your next take on our electic future! PS: it would be great if you revisit an old tech that's been around for a while but never caught on in the consumer markets.... "whatever happened to hydrogen fuel cells"?

[@bobhilder1469]

It seems you don’t understand the proper units to use. For example, it wouldn’t be “mpa”. Rather, it could be “mpahr” (miles per amp-hour). Similar error with your “amps per hour” and “watts per hour”. Let me know if you’d like to understand why.

[@tophlaw4274]

@@bobhilder1469 no need to be pedantic as I'm from an electronics engineering background... so I know the distinction. I was just trying to spitball an idea to simplify a very complex system that can't really be put in one unit of measure to factor in the power output of all solar cells on the vehicle at full utilization (yes, it's unlikely due to a myriad of factors; just a reference number to measure apples to apples) with respect to the battery's consumption per mile.... just to give consumers a way to compare apples to apples. Besides, I was referring to the number of miles the vehicle can move with an amp of power (yes, a tiny number ... hence my comment about the industry & small numbers). Anyway, I wasn't trying to write a dissertation on the subject... so :p

[@bobhilder1469]

@@tophlaw4274 Pedantic? That's funny. So let me get this straight. You INTENDED to get the units wrong? That's not a good way to "...just give consumers a way to compare apples to apples." Now, being a bit more "pedantic", what the heck is "...an amp of power"?

[@richpate9436]

Of the three, it looks to me like Aptera is the way to go. It's like the designers started with the laws of aerodynamic design and then built an electric/solar EV into that equation. Now that makes sense for a solar assist car since the tepid energy source is greatly enhanced by light weight, a low drag coefficient, and one less wheel on the pavement. I think I will reserve one.

[@rp9674]

Well done, great explanation of aptera. Aircraft level aerodynamics, lightweight plus solar. The price doesn't sound sustainable, if it's even close to that it's a great deal

[@robertd9850]

Actually, apart from inflationary effects, I think they can stick to the prices pretty closely for the 250 mile version. The car is really is pretty simple and the battery is not as expensive as it is on so many EV's simply because it is smaller.

[@bobcunningham6953]

Nice coverage of the SEV (Solar Electric Vehicle) segment! There seems to be a growing consensus that merely having a solar panel does not qualify an EV as an SEV. Rather, having enough daily range from solar to cover the average daily commute (30-40 miles in the US) seems to be the entry barrier to "meaningful" SEV category membership. Comparing SEVs and EVs is hard to do with a single number due to the number of factors affecting it, most certainly including parking and driving habits. The MPGe rating is a great start, as it is easy to understand, but it neglects the impact of solar. The EPA city/highway (and EU WLTP) ratings do better, but again neglect the impact of solar. We may need a new "daily driving" metric that explicitly covers various daily driving scenarios. I'm a fan of super-simple tests, such as the increasingly popular "range from full to empty at 70 MPH" test. Can we devise something as simple for SEVs? So far, I see no straightforward way to do this. It may need to be a curve, perhaps a plot showing "KW Charging Needed Per Mile" against "Daily Miles Driven". The driving mix would be city for the fewest daily miles driven, and all-highway at the maximum, with the two blended between the extremes. SEVs would be at ZERO until the daily drive became longer than what solar provides. Beyond this, vehicle efficiency and solar will combine to keep the curve below that for less efficient and non-solar vehicles. At the far end would be all-day highway driving, say for road trips, where solar hardly helps and overall efficiency triumphs. How will we know which vehicle is most efficient or cost-effective for solo commuters versus families ("soccer parents") versus road warriors? Something like the above curves should help.

[@jimj2683]

I agre. But they need to aim higher than 30-40 miles because many places lack the sun to charge that much. The aptera could be built with a much larger solar area.

[@flymypg]

​@@jimj2683 For the Aptera to gain even another 25% of solar range will require significant advancements in multiple technologies, and/or shifting to use much more expensive technologies. Aptera pretty much represents the apex of what current technology can provide AFFORDABLY. Folks living in less-good solar areas may need to plug in more often, just like everyone else who drives beyond what their Aptera solar cells can provide. The 40-mile commute range is a US "average", with a MASSIVE number of folks driving further for their daily commute. Solar will help everyone, but will cover ALL commute needs for less than half of Aptera owners, if that. If we assume one full Aptera charge session per month (DCFC, overnight, whatever), that alone adds 10 miles of daily commute range for not much effort. Compare that to any other EV used primarily for commuting, which typically must charge more than once per week (or more than 4 times per month). The above assumes Aptera owners will park their vehicles on the weekend, which ain't gonna happen! I'm confident pretty much ALL of us will be driving beyond what our solar cells provide, no matter where we live. The next step would be to look at all the ways to charge an Aptera, and select those that have the least impact on our personal lives, which depends on what's available and convenient: Home charging, work charging, shopping charging, DCFC stations, etc. Me, I'm just planning on keeping a 100' 120V extension cord in my Aptera. I see open outlets everywhere I go. Bandit charging FTW!

[@Chapter7Certified]

It’s also worth noting that if you don’t drive for a few days or much during those few days that the solar very well could fully power those rare longer distance drives you were talking about. Personally I work from home. If I drove to Disney this weekend after leaving the car in the sun over the week I’d be driving that 100 miles round trip completely with solar, and still have plenty left when I got back home which would most likely also get topped off in a day or two if I don’t drive 100 miles again

[@sharonbraselton4302]

buy 155 miile solar ekr car rav 4 ev

[@GNiessen]

The Aptera looks like a great one for vacations. While the Sona looks great for a family.

[@Rich1Rodriguez]

I look forward to my all-wheel-drive 400 mile range Aptera Roadster with enhanced Sound-system, and driver assist package. Charge on!

[@MeNoOther]

The Sono Sion also has the updated “Low light” solar panels that get power from, well low light areas. Any diffused light The Sono Sion has the room in the back, simular to a Prius.

[@bobhilder1469]

All of the vehicles are using the same solar cells and they all can, more or less, get power from low light areas and diffused light. Sono is just highlighting that feature.

[@jimj2683]

I would be really interested in a real world comparison test when these vehicles come out. How many real miles do they get per day parked outside in the shade.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@jimj2683 I assist in the building (and "real world" testing) of specialty solar panels using the same cells that Aptera, Lightyear and Sono Sion use. I am pretty confident that the number of real miles per day these vehicles will get from the solar if parked outside in the shade will be, at best, underwhelming.

[@nestharus]

The new solar panel tech should make a version 2 of these cars a very compelling argument :). Add in autonomous driving and you've got a great package.

[@robertd9850]

You mean Perovskite? No question. I believe the Aptera's solar cells are designed to be replaced when technology advances.

[@TheOnlyName]

At the moment if I had to choose a new vehicle, I would honestly prefer an Aptera over a Tesla!

[@MechmanGetrieb]

Nice, excellent assumption! I´m locking forward to the Sion. I hope they make it on the road in 2023. Aptera is also a cool car but less useful here in europe I think. Due to its length and width it will have problems in narrow street ´s and it only fits 2 people. The lightyear will be interesting with th e next model that is said to cost 30000€

[@Krieghandt]

My parents are the perfect market for Aptera. Retired, no daily commute, and when they do drive, it is less than 75 miles. They invariably let their cars sit for several days in the TX sun between drives.

[@OKTechCrafter]

Great report on EVs! (though the guy with the miter saw at 4:45 has clearly never used one in his life)

[@jamesloehr641]

I think aptera has the right formula. Ultra lightweight,ultra aerodynamic. With newer battery tech and newer solar tech that 40 mile range will only grow to possibly 80 to 100 miles a day later on. Which would mean a car that's truly green and doesn't tax the grid at all. We don't need to spend billions upgrading the grid if we just design cars to be ultra efficient like the aptera. We need to use aerodynamic light weight design as a basis for all vehicles. It would make cars not only safer but less expensive to drive aswell. Also with its simple design also faster and easier to produce in large quantities. Further making transportation cheaper. I think these companies have the right idea and other ev makers, designing cars to look like the cars of the past and present, have the wrong idea. Efficiency is key to a all electric future. Not untold billions on upgrading the power grids to handle inefficient heavy vehicles.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

yeß that che aay abot bser sol furé sol mile per day gíng jbxery baeru ebè mkiré ràbfe

[@lgwappo]

Where I retired from had a 10 floor indoor parking place but we could park on the top floor & get sun all day.

[@ronaldharris6569]

Miles per day is a good way to describe these cars range. Only the Aptera is light enough to run on pure solar and that's only for a short time depending on sunlight

[@jaybusby8299]

If you drive less then the charge gives you then the battery just stores the difference up to its maximum rating.

[@jayski9410]

The issue with solar cells is that their efficiency drops way off if they're not perpendicular to the sun. When mounted on a car body or roof that doesn't tract the sun, that means they'll almost always be generating far less power than their specs would indicate. Also hub motors sound great in theory but not having the protection of being up in the suspended part of the car may shorten their useful life, as the shock of every bump and pot hole will be "felt" directly by the motor. But that being said, I sure hope Aptera brings something to market that I can buy.

[@bobhilder1469]

Technically, you are incorrect when you say “The issue with solar cells is that their efficiency drops way off if they're not perpendicular to the sun.” It is not their efficiency that drops off. Rather, it’s their power. I know this sounds weird but it’s because of the definition of efficiency. I can elaborate if you’d like.

[@Kukaboora]

@Jay Ski, Valid concerns. For the solar output depending on the incident angles, I am sure Aptera already factored in this effect when they published the solar range. For the inwheel motors, I do not think it is that bad because it is also light weight. Only about 65 lbs. Furthermore, the magnetic field will help keeping center the rotor and absorb some of the shock load. Electric motor either axial or radial flux, will run on magnetic center. But definitely it needs some future improvement.

[@ruthwik081]

I ordered an aptera, not very optimistic about it but I do hope it makes it to production. It super efficient and spacious at the same time

[@landinhardy7682]

Bring back Cooley on Cars

[@artboymoy]

Should just refer to the other metric as "Solar Charge Potential" or something like that. Looking at an Aptera. Hope it takes off.

[@Buharialtinee]

Thanks for sharing

[@roguedogx]

4:59 you do not want to know the math on how long it would take that car to fully charge the Tesla. Hint - under near ideal conditions, I'd estimate days as the most appropriate unit, before factoring in charging losses.

[@suunraze]

I liked this presentation! I think your explanation of "regular range" vs "solar range" was a little overly complex and might confuse people. Simpler to just say "the max range is 400 miles. You recharge 40 miles a day for free from the sun." You made it sound like your car would somehow only go 40 miles on solar and then have to be charged

[@robertd9850]

The solar is used to just kind of "top off the tank" each day.

[@suunraze]

@@robertd9850 yep, that's a good way to put it

[@marcin_karwinski]

Guess what we need is for Ford to make a mass-production solar-capable new model T, say branded as solarT, with these blueprints as base, and in the traditional all-black design to hide those solar panels of the whole body better... Heck Ford can even use the famous quote about possible colour variations available for the end consumer ;) Though nowadays, these just might be different variants of the black colour, from matte through metallic to pearlescent with different blacks and hues... They certainly can do it and could arrange for a huge fleet of black colours - eg. Bentley, though it's a luxury level and pricing brand, offers I think more than 10 blacks every year... Or for other mass-production huge company to take this approach in their design/product stack but retain the large production volume leverage to keep the prices down.

[@vec306]

Hahaha Ford.

[@johnyves1246]

Aptera is my choice…I just ordered one…

[@ShoeGod]

Lightweight might be the key to range, but maybe not in safety. Unless they're using some high end material (which would probably make it more than a 30k car)

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Aptera is using high end materials, which include Kevlar and carbon fiber in an F1 passenger safety cage, and hemp in the designed in crumple zones. It is designed to do very well in FMVSS crash tests.

[@ShoeGod]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Good to know. Hopefully, it performs as well as you say 👍

[@jonbowden2099]

You can only charge a battery so many times. Whether it is a little or a lot. The last article I saw said to have an EV battery last it should be kept in the 20-80% charge range. Simple math, if you can get a 300 mile range EV, that translates to 180miles. In the winter time a newly released article stated that you lose between 14-41% of the battery charge. Or you range now is 151-106 mile range. If you live near Chicago, in the winter with snow and accidents and travel 47 miles to work and 47 miles back a 106 mile range will induce range anxiety. And if it is below zero out, drive your ICE car.

[@bobhilder1469]

Superficially, much of what you say is true but, as always, there's a lot more to the story. For example, yes, GENERALLY, if the batteries are of the typical "Lithium Ion"-type (as differentiated from Lithium Iron Phosphate), 20-80% is a good idea. However, even for the typical Lithium Ion type batteries, if you need to do the 300 mile trip (with no hope of a little charging on the road), you can charge it to 100% just prior to driving off and discharge it more fully as well. This will have very minimal impact on battery life.

[@jonbowden2099]

@@bobhilder1469 Here is what is never explained. For maximum battery life keep the charge between 20-80%. Does that mean maximum 800-1000 charges? If you charge to 100% you lose more? Every time you charge a battery whether it is adding in 5% or 100% of charge that is a charge cycle. Once you hit the maximum charge cycles maximum battery charge declines. In the same article it said that if you use a fast charger (40 times) your maximum charges drops by 50%. If you do not keep your battery between 20-80% it would be like driving an ICE car with the oil light on. Your tires with half the air in them, etc. if you want to get the maximum out, you need to do what is best for your vehicle. The article also said to keep your vehicle in a climate controlled garage. Why? Batteries do not like changes in temperature. Add that cost to the fuel cost of the EV. I have had a hybrid and have had the battery changed. The savings in fuel did not equal the cost of the battery.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@jonbowden2099 Regrettably, I don't have the time to answer all of your questions. May I suggest you check out "Battery University". In particular check out "bu-808 how to prolong lithium-based batteries".

[@jonbowden2099]

@@bobhilder1469 I read it. What it says is EXACTLY what I am referring to. It states in the second paragraph"applications for the EV need further development before this power source will become the accepted norm." HELLO??? You have a power source that degrades depending on how it is used. Do you think people will take the time to read the book that comes with the car? Do you think they will care? I am probably much older than you and from experience no one follows the owners manual. Before idiot lights, how many people checked their tire pressure at each fill up? Checked their oil level? Even knew how to lift the lid let alone change a tire? Rarely if ever have I seen this happen. You have a battery that is sensitive to heat/cold, charge cycles, charge rate, discharge rate and you expect everything to be fine? Vinfast has a battery lease program. It costs about .11 per mile. Even if you pay nothing for charging an EV, that will cost $11,000 for the battery over 100,000 miles. My ICE cars last over 200,000 miles at about 40mpg. The fuel cost is about equal to the battery degradation cost. Because of the current increase in cost of an EV, if you do the math an EV still costs more over the life of the vehicle. I can drive the over 700 miles to my daughter on almost one tank of gas. A fill up takes 10 minutes? Not the four or five stops and adding the 2.75 hours of charge time. This is from someone who had a hybrid that lost all the fuel savings because the battery had to be replaced. EV's still have a way to go.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@jonbowden2099 okie dokie….you take care now.

[@stevestout4827]

On-board solar makes little sense. It adds some weight when EVs already weigh too much. If you park in a garage or even under a tree they won't work. Better to put extra solar panels on the roof of your house and battery storage in your garage. I love efficiency, so I was glad to see the Aptera covered. When next year we'll have 9,000 pound Hummers with 3,000 pound batteries, the benefits of going electric will be completely negated. Since 57% of sales in the US are bloated trucks and SUVs, we need to start taxing vehicles based on weight, instead of a gas tax.

[@InternetReviewerGuy]

I'm going to have to argue with my family, but if the aptera makes production, I am definitely getting one when my Honda CR-Z dies.

[@crackin2000]

Oh man I want that last one.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

buy one

[@KenFromchicago]

"Atomic batteries to charge!" 👍👍🤣🤣

[@misaelramos83]

Solar Hybrid Electric Vehicle (SHEV)

[@mjrtensepian1727]

4:45 the actor/commercial production crew who have never used a chop saw before.

[@sndesigner01]

Now, if they came with hail insurance, that would make them more attractive to keep outside in Texas.

[@hammersampson]

Aptera should put 4 mini propellers blades in the 4 corners of the vehicle and make this a flying vehicle.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

Sadly, I seriously doubt the Lightyear 0 will survive. Not at that price with that limited (for that price) range. I'm sure they will sell some, but I just can't see them selling enough of them to survive as a company for very long.

[@mikafiltenborg2291]

I want a Aptera! 🤩

[@artboymoy]

You could put your name on a reservation list for $100 or $70's if you use a refferal code from someone. They're over 30K reservations right now, so it may be a while once they even get rolling... But still cool to have one, just for that "future" look that we were suppose to have with the Jetsons.

[@shannonlawhorn1674]

It's great that you are covering solar cars. However your presentation is a bit misleading. You seem to imply that the solar "range" of these vehicles is a seperate system to the car's batteries rather than the solar cells providing an alternative charging option to the standard level 1, level 2, and DC fast chargers. All 4 charging options will accomplish the same thing, namely charging the car's battery banks. And regardless of how you charge the car you will be driving by draining the cars batteries. Solar is a charging option, and does not power the car directly.

[@hoodrooster224]

I wonder if the Aptera will work in a regular car wash. I'd hate to have to hand-wash that thing all the time.

[@MusicBeSweetYo]

I have a Santa Fe plug in hybrid and it'd be perfect with solar

[@sharonbraselton4302]

buy 12 viot tríçl char solàr dell chief dud that 1 watt kjep bater treíl chadedr

[@DrewShafer66]

How long do the panels last before needing to be replaced?

[@chrisbarrett2512]

The "panels" will last a lot longer than most humans, made of carbon fiber, Kevlar, and hemp, or bamboo fibers. It will never rust and should not deteriorate from salt on the road. Replace if you drive into a bridge, or Jersey barrier, but other than that, should be good to go for at least 75 or 100 years.

[@DrewShafer66]

@@chrisbarrett2512 ah, ok. I have heard that solar panels lose their effectiveness the older they get. Is that not true in this application?

[@Carl_in_AZ]

@@DrewShafer66 Solar panels do lose efficiency over 20 years. I could not find what the life expentancy of these solar panels are from these mfgs. It appears that the Aptera model allows you to change out these panels.

[@DrewShafer66]

@@Carl_in_AZ 20 years is more than most cars stay on the road.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@DrewShafer66 Aptera is still testing the life of their panels, but they should be good for at least 10 years and possibly double that. By that time there may be more efficient ones available and they are designed to be replaceable.

[@MinionOfDarkness]

Solar cars vs. Nuclear cars. Isn't solar energy the product of the sun's nuclear fusion reaction? Ergo solar energy is nuclear energy.

[@RyanWilliams222]

0:07 I thought nuclear cars were my idea! Guess we can cross that one off the list. ☹️

[@ElroyMcDuff]

I hope the Aptera and other solar vehicles sell like hotcakes! It's crazy that we're not making more use of the energy provided by the sun.

[@robertd9850]

Suddenly, the top level of the parking garage has the coveted spots.

[@owl77]

I like solar car. In case I lost in the desert I still able to charge my car.😅

[@virutalnewscenter]

i wonder how the Aptera would do in crash tests. We have seen in the past lighter cars are not that safe even at 50 mph

[@jonsek]

We don't have crash data yet on the Aptera, but it is designed to be safer than a standard steel bodied vehicle. The composite shell is stronger than conventional auto construction and it includes air bags. In a collision, the curved body should allow the Aptera to rise above the other vehicle or go underneath minimizing impact forces. Of course, any light vehicle will lose out in a direct head on collision with something heavier. It's a tradeoff.

[@coreysuffield]

a lighter vehicle is safer when colliding with stationary objects, which is fairly common

[@victorsvoice7978]

Solar cars are ideal for Australia. Too bad the government wants to tax electric cars.

[@samyg123]

The other angle is the work from home revolution we’re in. Suddenly many people who usually commute are now just leaving their cars at home. Keeping these outside for the occasional errand around town could mean rarely having to plug in

[@2cartalkers]

If Aptera were to use two rear tires with narrower section widths, thus making it a vehicle with 4 wheels would that classify the vehicle as a car?

[@WyndStryke]

Yes

[@danytoob]

Yes, but also (in the US at least) that throws it into the federal regulations required, and adds likely years of design and approvals, not to mention the added $$. Regardless, I sent in a deposit a few months ago ... just in case. They claim 1st off the assembly line by end of 2022. We'll see....

[@charangohabsburg1]

In most if not all countries a minimum distance between the wheels is required (about 18 inches; 460 mm) in order to qualifiy as seperate wheels vs one double-wheel.

[@silvaantonio1528]

For me APTERA without a doubt! The Lightyear is too expensive, the Sono Sion it's ugly, and for last Aptera that is magical!

[@boedillard4541]

Seems like if your garage had solar panels charging a battery that recharged your car battery at night would give you what you want without really worrying about the solar panels on the car that wouldn't do much for you.

[@charangohabsburg1]

What if someone has not a garage? Exactly.

[@marting1348]

I love the Sion

[@eddieyutub]

If Apterra is made in the US, The $25,000 version will eventually cost only $17,000! Yes

[@jonathanleonard1152]

This commentator says “when the electric goes down everything electric goes down”. This is not necessarily correct. Battery or fuel back up can make up the difference for a time.

[@statewidefilms]

This is a great option

[@sharonbraselton4302]

buybit

[@GeorgeStar]

Another issue with most EVs is they lose charge just sitting. Problem solved with onboard solar.

[@zunedog31]

If Cooley says it it's true.

[@jameshoffman552]

Of the three, i think Aptera is the only one with great market potential -- Lightyear bing too expensive and Sono being too primitive. Already amazing from an engineering standpoint, Aptera's new production model has impressive aerodynamic improvements and things like skin-heat exchange (to avoid aero looses inherent in a radiators)

[@thaatsriight]

Why not just make solar parking stations rather than try to put all of this tech into the car. You’d gain more “free” energy more quickly… 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Mireaze]

Why not do both?

[@thaatsriight]

@@Mireaze adding solar charging to the vehicle itself is costly and produces little. I park my car in a garage most the time and so do millions of other car owners. So, why not create solar covered parking areas that can generate way more energy much faster and also provide some protection from the elements?

[@thaatsriight]

@@anthonyr1479 haven’t you noticed that humans just can’t stop themselves when it comes to dumb ideas 😂

[@bobhilder1469]

@@anthonyr1479 Same to you.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@thaatsriight That's part of our charm.

[@djbillgates]

You haven’t showed the Fiska Karma that is way better

[@joeji7442]

Who would keep a quarter million dollar car parked on the street? You’d park it in a garage. Anybody who lives in a multi-unit residence would also have to park their car in a parking garage also. Most offices in downtown cores would also have parking garages, so even if you buy the cheaper cars, there’s very little opportunities to have it see sun. Good for suburban people, I guess.

[@bobhilder1469]

Those that might own a "quarter million dollar car" would likely be able to park the car "on the street" in front of their gated mansion or if out on the town they'd bring along 2 armored vehicles as "escorts" so.... (sarcasm)

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Aptera starts at $25,900.

[@MikeIsCanadian]

When the grid goes down don’t most things go down, even in a non all electric future? My gas furnace needs electricity, gas stations need electricity etc.

[@azr2d1]

yeah.. shoot, even houses with solar panels/net metering don't have power since the inverters shut down.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@azr2d1 Some but not all. Although just anecdotal, a neighbor of mine put in a grid tie solar system that includes 2 Telsla Powerwall 2.0's. Just yesterday we had numerous lightning induced power "blinks" and he didn't notice a thing.

[@rp9674]

An Eevee needs electricity, but it also stores electricity. I rarely get home on "empty" battery.

[@azr2d1]

@@bobhilder1469 SOme but most don't. Almost none. And having 2 tesla powerwalls when grid metered is a huge waste of money unless you have very frequent power outages.

[@bobhilder1469]

@@azr2d1 Almost none? Huge waste of money? Very frequent? You are one for superlatives aren't you?

[@luedriver]

3500 pounds is 1587.573kg

[@stuartgray5877]

Lets just do some quick calculations. The solar "Power" at the surface of the earth is less than 1300 watts per square meter. The BEST Solar cells available today at maxed out at about 30% efficiency. So the MOST you can get (assuming no clouds and the sun directly overhead) is about 390 watts per square meter. Assuming a LARGE car might have 3 square meters of surface area to use (this is being generous) then the most a car could generate (AGAIN assuming perfect conditions) is about 3X390 = 1200 watts. If we assume that the car is in direct sunlight all day, you MIGHT get ~10 hours of sunlight for 12,000 kwh. My Tesla (smaller capacity version) can hold 85kwh. So under perfect conditions, it would take 85,000/12,000 = SEVEN DAYS under PERFECT Conditions (and my overly generous assumptions above) to charge my car. Reality means it would take more like TWO WEEKS to charge my car using solar that is *on the car* . It is not practical even if our Solar Cells were 100% efficient. ITS A SCAM. Now if you want a MOTOR HOME with deployable solar panels, then MAYBE it would be practical. Cars just do not have enough surface area.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Your calculations are actually generous regarding the amount of power that is available to Aptera through solar cells Aptera will only be getting round 4200 watt hours per day in San Diego under ideal conditions. However that is good for as much as 40 miles per day or better. Where I live in iowa, I can expect about 1/2 that. What you have overlooked is that Aptera is so efficient that it will use on the order of a 1/3rd the power to drive the same distance as your Tesla. It has less rolling resistance, is lighter, more aerodynamic, and the motors are more efficient. It all adds up. Your lack of looking at the details does not make it a scam.

[@bobhilder1469]

You do understand that all these solar assist electric vehicles can be “plugged in” to charge right? Also, do you dispute the claim that the Lightyear 0, for example, on a good sunny day in the summer is capable of collecting enough solar over the course of the entire day to drive the vehicle about 40 miles?

[@bobhilder1469]

@@n.brucenelson5920 1/3rd the ENERGY is probably a better way to say it.

[@IN-tm8mw]

This is something i dreamed of having since the 90s. But it wont be easily available until infrastructure and skilled workers for repair and maintenance. I also wonder how these cars will fair in the used car market or will everyone have to buy new like phones these days.

[@IN-tm8mw]

@@anthonyr1479 sure, random voice online. I'm always surprised by how repliers choose not to add any information or substantial information to the topic but instead double down on their own ignorant feelings.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Aptera is a relatively simple vehicle with about 6000 total parts compared to around 30,000 for today's current cars. Aptera grants right to repair, and the repair documents are open source. Most owners will be able to either repair them themselves or use independent repair shops. In this respect, they are very different from Tesla. I expect a large aftermarket business to grow up around Aptera, similar to what we saw with the VW Beetle.

[@IN-tm8mw]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Thanks for the constructive reply. I'm a computer tech and i do simple DIY work on my own car already. What I'm mostly interested in is the life expectancy of each part, Annual costs to maintenance those parts and standard tools used during repair. Most only talk about these types of cars during its optimal health. I wanna see it put to the test of 5, 10, 15 and 20 years of running.

[@azr2d1]

Electric vehicles are much more durable than ICE vehicles due to simplicity. The aptera takes it a step further by having in wheel motors which cut out all of the drivelines. No wear and tear there. The only issues I can see happen is electrical stuff like windows, and screens. And the most likely part will be software bugs which can be solved remotely. And long term the batteries but they also last long, especially the phosphate batteries recently announced for the Aptera.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@IN-tm8mw We don't have all the details yet. Service items will include replacing the windshield wiper occasionally and wiper fluid. The standard antifreeze coolant used to cool the motors and battery pack will need changing at rare intervals, measured in years and 100's of thousands of miles. The battery pack should last a minimum of 400,000 miles before it declines to 80% capacity. The solar panels should last at least 10 years. By the time they will require replacement there will likely be affordable cells with more than the 22-23 % efficiency of the stock ones Aptera is installing. Tires of course, and brake pads - rare because of the light weight of the vehicle and the use of regenerative braking. The only regular service item I can think of would be the wheel bearings, which could require service as often as every 30,000 miles - although lifetime bearings may be fitted. we don't know yet.

[@space302]

Are you trying to say " niche " ? There is no T in "niche".

[@p0kerp1aya]

I disagree with you, I believe that Aptera will indeed turn the electric vehicle industry on it's ear. Not by the solar charging system, that's just icing on the cake, but rather by the vehicles efficiency. Aptera's efficiency is like a two way street. Not only are you efficient traveling further down the road using less energy, but when you charge due to the efficiency your able to recover more miles of range per kilowatt of energy you put back into the battery. For example my not so efficient 2015 Nissan Leaf on level 2 public charging gets about 19 miles of range per hour of charging. The Aptera on that same level 2 public charger would get somewhere around 80 miles of range per hour, and for DC fast charging it would get around 500 miles per hour. So due to the efficiency of Aptera, your spending less time at the charging station.... that's huge! And being able to drive for weeks, maybe even months without ever plugging in, so long as your commute is less than 40 miles per day....??? IDK.... I'd say that's turning the industry on it's ear. Just my two cents.

[@rcollinge325]

Your title is a little confusing. Don't you mean to call Solar POWERED cars.

[@bobhilder1469]

I like "Solar Assisted Electric Vehicle".

[@rp9674]

NO, there are cars that drive on the Sun, of course.

[@dtiff]

Cooley!

[@bobhilder1469]

@@anthonyr1479 Yes it is.

[@TheCJUN]

Lightyear 0 is nice

[@BryceLovesTech]

I love the Aptera and the price. That light-year car is dead on arrival with that insane price tag. I paid $29K for my used Tesla Model S best decision I ever made and I charge it with the solar panels on my roof

[@Mireaze]

Lightyear are doing what Tesla did, launching with the expensive car, then working their way down

[@Zoza15]

The first car is a prototype as the second version will be a lot more affordable.

[@rp9674]

It's harder for new EV companies, because Tesla already exists, Aptera found a unique angle, that should help immensely.

[@artboymoy]

@@rp9674 Over 30K reservations so far.

[@Enforcer_WJDE]

It's not done yet. They have picked another bad time to start. Let's hope people don't jump ship in case we are hit by another recession.