Checking out a mud flat, trying a new tiller pilot & practising reefing - in my 20' Norfolk Gypsy.

A sunny afternoon on the River Blackwater. I check out a mudflat in preparation for a possible trip to a tiny creek, try out my new tiller pilot (which comes to an unhappy end), and practise reefing under sail - which proves to be tricky with the reefing lines on my boat.

[@chrismccartney8668]

Tony Smiths Books !! Legendary..

[@napoleonnz]

I would move the reef cleats to the cabin top and route the lines there from blocks at the gooseneck and base of the mast. Single line reefing should work fine on a small cruiser like yours. That way you could heave to in order to reef. Standing or sitting on the leeward side to reef seems perilous to me. After 50 odd years of sailing small yachts, every day on the water is a new learning experience.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks, that's an interesting idea. Reefing whilst hove-to is what I've always wanted to do - but I had the same problem reaching the reefing cleats on the boom with a slackened mainsail.

[@terrulian]

napoleonnz has the right idea, and it's what I'd do. Put the tack downhaul through a padeye on the mast at the gooseneck, and a block on the deck back to the cockpit. Lead the reefing outhaul forward along the boom through a couple of padeyes to a block at the gooseneck and then another at the base of the mast next to the downhaul, then to the cockpit. You will probably have to rig two outhauls with accompanying blocks to achieve the same at the second reef. Or you do simplify it as in napoleannz' method which should work on a boat that size. You will find the whole task completely manageable even in a breeze, which is when you need it. Dousing the main and starting the engine will be very time consuming and sloppy, and you should learn to do it under sail. You need to be closed-hauled as others have suggested, but even so, when singlehanding, lines led aft is a godsend. Like napoleonnz, I've a bit of experience, have been a licensed instructor for three decades, and done a circumnavigation. That certainly doesn't mean I have all, or even the majority of the answers, so I'm just telling you what I would do. BTW, you should be watching the videos of Tom Cunliffe, one of your countrymen and a wise old sailor with a talent for British sailing slang. www.youtube.com/@TomCunliffeYachtsandYarns

[@rsb62rsb]

👍🏽😀. Looking forward to the Gunner creek attempt… how cool it would be to be able to moor up and get out and walk to the chapel

[@philgray1023]

When we had a gunter rig we had no trouble with reefing. Mostly because we had no idea that you could even do it. Thank you for the video.

[@johnnyT428]

Put the boat 'in irons' (turned up into wind without actually tacking), then lower your main to the reef point and set your reef lines. I usually harden the mainsheet first to hold the boat there. My 16ft gaffer just sits there till I've made off my reef lines & tied my reefs, then I ease the main and bear off again.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks. I was looking for a way to reef whilst keeping the boat moving - as in the second half of this Tom Cunliffe video (although he doesn't have a gaff rig here) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJe7o3iYf9yFqK8) - rather than going completely head to wind. But going in irons is another option.

[@ralph6115]

Great video, very instructive (and entertaining) for a novice sailor as I am!

[@joewilliams5396]

Fantastic video, I really enjoyed it.

[@DaveMoore-uo3bc]

Toby I have a Norfolk Gypsy. re reefing. Heave too, - ie tack but leave the jib backed. Everything will slow down. Ease off both the peak and throat haliards to partially lower the main. When slack the boom can be hauled inboard and the reefing cleats easily reached to pu in one or two reefs. Reset the now reefed main and release the backed jib to sail on.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks Dave, that's very helpful. I've tried heaving to, but assumed I needed to keep the mainsail with some wind in it - which left the boom out of reach. I'll try your method next time.

[@daleskidmore1685]

Sounds like the gear teeth have stripped of the Tiller Pilot. Nice to see you out sailing again.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks Dale. Yes, it didn't sound good. I've returned it to the boatyard who fitted it, & they're talking to the manufacturer.

[@N-M362]

Hi Toby - get close hauled and then reef, so the boom is inside the cockpit. I wouldn't get into 'irons' for reefing, as the flapping sail can make everything bounce around, but each boat has its own foibles. Have fun anyway!

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks Nick. Yes, I don't like the flapping & bouncing around aspect. I just practised reefing whilst hove-to. I'm going to try & do it whilst close-hauled next.

[@nevilleholmes1324]

raising the boom with the topping lift also help to take the power out of the main while lowering the gaff and dropping the throat.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[@chrismccartney8668]

Gunners as per Famous Photo of Walter Linnett Famous Essex Wildfowler in his punt in the Creek...

[@tobygoessailing]

Haven't seen that photo. Is it online?

[@stephenbonnett164]

The second time you lowered the sail you managed to grab hold of the leach beyond the reef cleats which suggests that they may be quite okay where they are. Having said that, moving the cleats to the cabin top as suggested by napoleonnz seems to make a lot of sense.

[@tobygoessailing]

True. But it was a very gentle breeze. When it's windy & choppy & the boat is heeling over, it's all rather different.

[@peterreeve8663]

It seems you have both a throat and a peak halliard. I would jus lower the peak to scandalise the sail. You can then reef the clew. Then lower the throat to reef the tack. Another option is just start the engine and head straight into the wind with the auto pilot during the manoeuvre. It’s not ‘classic’ but it’s seaman like and a safe option. I would also mark the halliards so you can get them in the right position straight away. Moving the reefing lines to the cockpit is also a good idea. It keeps you safe.

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks. I haven't tried lowering the peak to lose power from the sail - so I'll experiment with that.

[@ianrees7451]

to much to do if possible single line reefing love the vidio

[@tobygoessailing]

Thanks!

[@tetleyk]

That was a pretty good day for a sail. I'm going to comment (again) apologies for the epistolic length of the post and for saying things that you may already know. As with all types of self-steering you should balance the sails first before engaging the steering and keep them balanced. Ideally you should be able to get the boat to sail in a straight line without touching the tiller and then and only then should you engage the self-steering. Your tiller pilot is having to overcome too much force on the tiller and that is causing it to malfunction. Self-steering gear is usually a trimming device not a helmsman replacement and asking it to do more than trim the course of a balanced boat is putting it under far too much strain. I think your problem with reefing is that you are lowering the main too much. Try to lower only enough to be able to pull down the reef. I have Naiad's gaff main set up in the same way as you do with two reefing downhauls per reef one at the luff and the other at the leech. My procedure for reefing is to head up to wind until the boom end is over the quarter. If there is still too much wind in the main I can raise the topping lift a little and lower the peak a little to power it down. I lower the throat and pull in on the luff downhaul. I can't do both at the same time so I let the throat down 6 inches or so and then pull on the luff reefing line and repeat until the luff is snugged down tight. The second reefing line also needs to be pulled in at the same time otherwise it sags, so I do that next. Then I make off the reefing lines and haul up in the throat to tighten the luff. After that I drop the peak enough to be able to pull the leech reefing line tight and the second reefing line not so tight. If required I raise the topping lift to help here by taking the weight of the boom off the sail. The peak is raised to set the sail properly and the topping lift lowered. If the wind isn't too strong and I'm going to be sailing with a reef in for some time I tie up as many of the reefing points as I can reach from the cockpit. As much as possible I try to keep the main pulling a bit when reefing so that it isn't flogging and the boat is still sailing in a straight line even if very slowly. Reefing takes practise and I'd suggest that you get a crew to handle the tiller a few times until you can do it easily. Even better if the winds are light for the practising sessions. I should mention that I also do not have the luff pulled in tight to the mast with a lashing but use rope and parrel bead mast hoops instead. This has the advantage of ensuring that the sail cannot bind against the mast in the wind and allows the luff to come down pretty much at any state of wind. I was taught that the time to reef is the time you first start thinking about if a reef is necessary as it is far easier to shake a reef out in light winds than take one in with strong winds I wouldn't try to convert your reefing system to a single-line as that really only works well when you can lead the reefing line from the luff to the leech inside the boom otherwise it sags and catches on everything at the most inconvenient times. The second reefing line in particular when you are pulling down the first reef. Lastly for the reefing, I would not rely on having your engine to carry out the reefing, you need to be able to reef without it in the event of not being able to use it for some reason. Next up tacking, I would do it manually since using the tiller pilot is asking it to overcome a lot of force. I also try to tack in open water without using the tiller otherwise I'm trying to handle the tiller, mainsheet and jib sheet all at the same time. Instead I leave the tiller free to swing and let the jib fly so that it is powered down, but not so much that it flogs. The power in the main should then push the head round and I keep pulling in on the mainsheet to keep the power in it and pull in a little on the jib as the head comes round to prevent the sail flogging. I keep the jib backed as the head comes through the wind, letting the jib come across when the main starts filling on the new tack. Finally I balance the sails on the new point of sail. I was taught that this is called sailing the boat through the eye of the wind and the heavier the boat the easier it is to achieve. It is a slow tack and there is plenty of time to do everything as she tacks even on my 16 foot boat. When I still had my 16 tonne 36 ft gaff cutter the tack could take two or three minutes to carry out and was really easy and fun and astonishing just how far her mass would carry her into the wind on the tack. Like the reefing it sounds a lot more complicated than it really is and once you have the procedure down pat it is far less daunting than it seems at first. I'm going to be heading out for Mundon Stone Point mid-May for an overnight if the weather allows and the DCA will be sailing from Bradwell Marina to Goldhanger Creek for a night on the same weekend. There's going to be a lot of small boats sailing around that weekend.

[@tobygoessailing]

@TetleyK. Thanks, that's incredibly helpful, especially with all the detail. Much appreciated. What sort of boat is Naiad? And how long/heavy? Just to say, I never lower the main this much for reefing - I was just seeing how easy it was to move the gaff up & down the mast whilst sailing under jib. Using the topping lift & peak halyard to lose power makes perfect sense. (Completely obvious now you've said it). Also dropping the peak to pull in the leech reefing line. So far I've only lowered the throat to take in a reef, but that means when I take in a second reef the boom is very high up - and the leech reefing cleat is not so easy to reach. Fine if I'm doing it in the marina, but not out in choppy water. So that's very helpful advice. (And again, completely obvious now). With the tiller pilot, I take your point about needing a balanced boat. Makes sense. But the instruction manual doesn't say anything about that, so I just turned it on & started trying it out. If it's so critical to be balanced, I don't know why the manufacturer wouldn't spell that out in a big obvious warning. It was a very gentle breeze, & it seems odd to me that the tiller pilot couldn't handle the few manoeuvres I did with it. (If it can't handle tacking, for example, why include it as a function?) Anyhow, the boatyard who installed it are in touch with manufacturers, so we'll see what comes from that. Also great advice about tacking using the sails rather than the tiller. Shamrock is 1400kg, so hopefully heavy enough to make that work. I'll definitely give it a go. Mundon Stone Point is on my list of places to go. I've anchored overnight in Lawling Creek, but never stopped off on the point. Will you land on the point, or just anchor nearby?

[@tobygoessailing]

@TetleyK Just went looking - is this Naiad? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIS1pZ9-l5WtnqM

[@tetleyk]

@@tobygoessailing Naiad is around 400 kg all up and 16 ft long. She was a Fairey Falcon until I rebuilt her in the style of Shoal Waters. The Mundon Stone Point visit is going to be an overnight pulled up close to the beach although which side depends on the wind. The intention is to beach on the weather side so that getting off again is not a lee shore.

[@tetleyk]

@@tobygoessailing Yes, that's Naiad and myself when I first launched here on the river Great Ouse close to my home. I was considerably overweight at the time and boy, do I look like it ! Naiad is now on a mooring at West Mersea.

[@tobygoessailing]

@@tetleyk Lovely looking boat. I can see the Shoal Waters influence. Not sure if I'll be sailing that weekend, but if so, I'll keep a lookout for you.

[@kendonahve924]

Couldn't help but notice that your engine is quieter than your tiller pilot. What is your engine? I have found the same effect on my tiller pilot when it's working against more resistance. Also maybe there is some vibration coming from hull area behind tiller pilot mount. On mine some lubricant such as Vaseline is recommended for the shaft. I'll be watching the comments for suggestions on your reefing situation.. Your vessel moves nicely in that breeze. I'm also looking forward to your segment on Gunner creek sail. I have similar situation in my home waters. How much ballast do you have ?

[@tobygoessailing]

Engine is a Yanmar 10HP. I think this video makes it sound a bit quieter than it is in reality. But it does tick over nicely. When the tiller pilot first made that noise, my first thought was that it was vibration from the hull amplifying it. But the final frenzy was obviously not that (and the pushrod didn't move at all after that happened). Don't actually know how much ballast I've got. But overall displacement is 1400 kg.

[@essexrowleys]

I've just bought a rather nice Drascombe Longboat Cruiser and a Tiller Pilot was included in the sale. To what extent did your Pilot drain the battery? I might keep the boat at Bradwell.

[@tobygoessailing]

To be honest, I have no idea. I don’t have a battery charge indicator & I didn’t check it with a meter. I’ve been told (by the boatyard who installed it, & by my very experienced neighbour in the marina) that it should be fine to use it for a few hours, without exhausting the battery. But I’ve yet to find out myself.

[@tizme6105]

@@tobygoessailing As a rough guide, according to my old Autohelm AH800 manual, it says - "Power supply 10 - 15V DC; Current consumption -standby 65ma; Auto between 0.5A and 1.5A depending on boat trim, helm load and sailing conditions." No idea how the newer models compare.

[@rogerkrajci6332]

Hi Toby watching you vid and working on my 17 ft day sailer just wondering way u don’t just lay ahull.

[@tobygoessailing]

Hi Roger. You mean dropping sails & losing way completely? Never tried it, but in a stiff wind & waves I imagine that would mean a lot of bouncing around, which I’d like to avoid. I could be wrong, though.

[@rogerkrajci6332]

@@tobygoessailing no Toby I don’t mean dropping sails sheet your jib in tight let your main go to the leeward side with the tiller tied off too the leeward u will see a slick develop on your leeward side now your boat will be calm u can take your time reffing 😎

[@tobygoessailing]

@@rogerkrajci6332 Ah, you mean going hove-to. Yes, I've tried that and it worked OK. (My next video is about that). Thanks.

[@theresnobodyhere5778]

you making problem with reefing that dont exist ,reef before the wind gets to the point you wish you had reefed centre the boom ,if its too windy i,d point into wind for sure let off on the gib aswell just stop the boat reef and resume course when all is set up they way you want it,, maybe i,m wrong but thats what i,d do

[@raytheron]

That was my line of thinking as well. That way the boom is along the centreline, so no need to lean out. I'm not sure I'd want to reef while under way, anyhow. But that from someone who hasn't sailed for a long time 🙂

[@tobygoessailing]

I agree, reefing early is always better. But I like to know I've got other options if I need them. I've been in situations where it's been quite choppy & I wanted to take in a second reef. If the boat isn't moving at all, then I'm bouncing around in the water - which makes everything harder to do - so I was looking for a way to reef whilst still moving.

[@tetleyk]

@@tobygoessailing Indeed, you need to be able to reef whatever the conditions.

[@theresnobodyhere5778]

@@tobygoessailing well best solution and not too expensive set up a single line reefing system thats what i done takes 30 seconds to reef ,so how it works line goes in portside of reef eye at leach tie a stopper knot at tail down to pulley at rear starboard side of boom along boom do away with the cleats along to another pulley turns up to luff reefing eye back through to portside down to another upright turn pulley on cabin roof at bottom of mast and the line comes back to cockpit jammer cleat ,your main sail halyard comes to cockpit jam cleat release and lower that to the point were you would pull in the reef line mark that lowering point with a dab of paint on the line jam it back in cleat and then release and pull the new reefline tight and jam in cleat ,then just tweak the tension on main as i say its a 30 second move to do it