China: Friend or Foe?

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Is China, with its unfair trade policies and shameless theft of intellectual property, an enemy that needs to be reined in? Or is it in the West’s best interests to view China as a strategic partner and aim for mutual respect and cooperation?
We were joined by Keyu Jin, Professor of Economics at LSE; Sir Malcolm Rifkind, politician and former cabinet minister; and Martin Wolf, Chief Economics Commentator at the FT
The event was chaired by BBC News Presenter and the BBC’s first China Editor, Carrie Gracie.

[@Intelligence-Squared]

Reflecting on this debate in 2020, has your opinion on China changed?

[@pikeslayertv.2998]

They have showed there true colours and intensions......

[@aksbeixhev]

Calling a regime that prosecute political dissidents, build concentration camps for Uigurs and is involved in forced organ harvesting "a friend"? Seems like fifty percent of the audience are clueless. A bit embarrassing for a debate calling itself intelligence squared.

[@309heman6]

@@aksbeixhev Full of nonsense. Come to China and see

[@aksbeixhev]

@@309heman6 you can watch the oppression in action in Hong Kong on any news channel. I've been to China, seen the facade, but don't dare going back. There's no rule of law and critics seem to "dissappear" quite often.

[@309heman6]

@@aksbeixhev Dear Jonas, As a Chinese who is studying in Europe currently, I am thinking everyday that why a lot people have the same image towards China as you have, even though China has never hurt anyone, after all, the only answer is because US, the super power has a bad history with CCP ever since the lost of Chiang kai-shek and north korea war. But we will see this change in 10 years, because US is falling and European who are more rational will reconsider actually Chinese are much more reliable and trustworthy. This is a historical inevitability, no doubt.

[@jondubai8590]

I opened a factory in China, and spent six years there living with the locals, and they had incredible freedom in the true sense of the word, they did not live in fear of violence, children played in the street after dark, the factory employed over 100 locals and I have never had such a happy workforce. I also had factories in the UK and the USA. There was a local church that anyone could visit and pray. So when I hear these so called 'experts' waffle on about something they know very little about, they only know what they have read or visited and stayed in hotels. Yes of course China is not perfect, but there again which country is?

[@yongdeng1813]

@jon Dubai you go ahead and tell the world. Western people only “ know” china by reading some garbages or hear someone said some fake stories. Ridiculous to say the least!

[@hectoOut]

@@yongdeng1813 it s safer in China because surveillance cameras everywhere. They got your DNA database so easily can track you down. Even Chinese live abroad wouldn't dare to say anything just in case you ll send someone to intimidate their life. Everyone is happy at the factory because this dude shifted jobs to China. This dude has business interests in China therefore his only choice is praising China. Evryone ia happy in China because all the jobs went to China while the Western counterpart are unemployed and depressed! In the mean time you keep bad mouthing about the West but that is where all your money come from and all knowledge you can steal! Also the most porno you view and download is white girlfriend pssy everyday! You ll never get along with the West if you dont learn to take criticism and telling the truth.

[@marywrong7041]

People in China is friend, but the CCP is foe.

[@pascalpoussin1209]

FREE JULIAN ASSANGE!!!

[@00000000000101010]

lol, haven't been back for a while I see.

[@nzdoom827]

As a Malaysian prime minister said a few years ago, we have had a two thousand year relationship with China and they never invaded us. Two years after the British met us, they invaded. The question westerners need to start asking is if they are friends or foes in the way they engage with other nations. Because historically they have been foes and while this has enriched the west it certainly makes all the talk of civilility, truth and goodness ring very hollow.

[@SSDDssed]

West? I'm not a westerner. You call me a westerner whatever that is. I'm not from UK or USA ok. Do you ever realize that there are countries in the west, countries that have been attacked by the "east" and it's happening again right now. Who is attacking again?

[@jaxtang5718]

@@SSDDssed Western colonized Asia and robbed the resources. Did the Westerner repay us the lost??

[@SSDDssed]

@@jaxtang5718 Yes that's partially why you are doing so well today, we or the US helped in and after ww2, China especially, then we moved the production there and opened everything instead of closing like for example the Ottoman Empire did in the past to us. But nationalist propaganda will tell you only bad things. Things could have been much worse. So cry more.

[@jaxtang5718]

@@SSDDssed Dont take all the credit of post-ww2. Not only US engaged it. We, Chinese also sacrificed on the ground. You move the production here because your people is lazy and expensive. Just keep your so-call democracy, 1 people 1 vote to yourself. Day by day more people will see the ugly side of western democracy, is just a tool used by capitalists' to hijack political power. Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%. Good luck.

[@mostevil1082]

This is not the case for nations with a direct border. It's not that China isn't imperialist, it's that it's not a naval power.

[@emmawang1999]

It doesn't matter how you think about China. As long as you have been talking about China a lot. That really means something.

[@user-js5ly2wx4l]

I'm a Hongkonger and I use to be brainwashed into thinking that British rule was a good thing and I was taught to feel more 'special' than those in mainland China. By making an effort to entertain counter narratives, checking sources and for evidence, I have now mostly deprogrammed my automatic hatred or knee jerk reaction towards China. This happened in my early 20s when I begun to realise and acknowledge the fact that under British rule (that is colonisation (psychological as well as physical), exploitation, invasion), we never once had democracy and those that protested were killed, punished or imprisoned. We were also forbidden to live on the peak in our own land reserved only for Westerners which many accepted and gloss over without questioning. Many HongKongers support the handover back to China, it's just you never hear their voices in Western media.

[@leo8273]

very true... many hong kong government officials were handpicked by the UK, or were straight up anglo. speaking chinese or cantonese wasnt allowed in many government buildings its very gross the way UK hong kong has been represented as having their democratic rights stripped away, or whatever, as if the history and the very reason the UK acquired hong kong from china was through illegal drug trade, or was ever democratic at all this is all ignored by the west to give them a leg-up against china

[@cobrakilla8]

The brainwashing from the western colonisers needs to be strong, so they can reap maximum benefits from the occupied land, they don't care about the people living there. Now only the people on Taiwan need to bE deprogrammed the same way that you have been. I hate how hypocritical some people can be saying 'Hong Kong is not China', well what is it then? Britain? Funny. Lots of love for all Chinese people and wish you good luck towards total reunification with everyone else. Sending you lots of love from Serbia!

[@zd1322]

Newsflash: you're still brainwashed.

[@LuisAlvesFerreira]

As you I'm rediscovering the way West sees the world. Being myself a Westerner I'm felling a growing sense of shame...

[@Fatvod]

Are you seriously arguing that British ownership was the reason for lack of rights? Or was it perhaps the fact that Hong Kong was still under the CCP law. Do you think that British society treats their citizens the same way? Because anyone with half a brain knows they don't

[@theOverseasJin]

1:09:00 he failed to realize that most of the Asian economies that are developed today were authoritarian during their development stages (Singapore, Taiwan, S. Korea).

[@hectoOut]

Well lucky they moved to democracy fast or else it would ve been a disaster for them! Look at how authoritarians can do the damage when they over stay and over play. We get Coved19! Why are you still staying in the West if you hate it so much. Ain't you a hypocrite?

[@stex5026]

@@hectoOut He didn't say anything negative or remotely displayed any hatred. He was simply stating a fact, which negates your knowledge of how the world works. I understand you might have a lot of frustration in your real life, and you felt you can vent a little on the Internet. Well, I certainly hope you feel a little better after that comment.

[@cross5269]

What about Japan and Taiwan? No, didn't think so

[@eugenedebbs2189]

@@cross5269 South Korea only became a democracy in 1987 lol. Till then, it was a dictatorship. Taiwan was also an authoritarian state (KMT dictatorship) till the late 80s. Japan only became a democracy in 1952 and only managed to develop with a ton of US economic aid.

[@MichelleSuiComedy]

@@cross5269 Taiwan became democratic in the 90s after it got rich. Singapore has had one party majority for its entire existence.

[@sikkigoh]

Sir Malcolm tried to portray that UK is independent of US but the world knows it is subservient to US.

[@wilfred5656]

China is not subservient to America, the rest of the world may be but not China.

[@sikkigoh]

@@wilfred5656 Russia tooo

[@maxloh6303]

Hahaha... That's his own opinion only.

[@petersinclair3997]

The US is the centre state of the West. The West controls most of the resources and finance of the World. Decoupling from China will find the US establishing new supply lines. The UK is sovereign, yet the US has more clout. Consider the Suez Crisis. 🇦🇺

[@gxlorp]

That's not how it is. I'm a US citizen. Our governments are not the people.

[@varivavariva6045]

Mr. Wolf and Ms. Jin made some very compelling observations. The host did a great job keeping the discussions fair and balanced.

[@stayprepared2388]

china gain benefits , you are a friend . china do not gain any benefits , you are a foe.

[@Gozzillacia]

Kind of bizarre hearing these Brits boast about the importance of free speech to the West, while Britain is rapidly losing any free speech we have in the name of "anti-hate." Scotland leading the way -- we now have secular Islamic blasphemy laws brought in by the SNP's Muslim justice secretary - Humza Yosef.

[@Andy-P]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humza_Yousaf "SNP's Muslim justice secretary " good effort at stiring up racial hate.

[@Andy-P]

@@HELLO7657 Yes have revisted this and my comment is not clear. I don't think the bill itself is stiring up racial hatred. Just the comment "Scotland leading the way -- we now have secular Islamic blasphemy laws" I don't think that statement is true.

[@chowsiongwong8611]

UK should free ASSANGE first before talking about free speech.

[@Andy-P]

@@chowsiongwong8611 .. He has done the world a favor

[@Gozzillacia]

@@chowsiongwong8611 I agree Assange should be free - but we should always stand up for free speech. My country Scotland has lost its free speech currently. We have an authouriatrian government - but I as an individual Scot I still have the right to praise free speech - even if my government denies me it.

[@athulabar1]

I feel like this: China: friend or foe? What is this topic? In fact, this is not a complicated topic but a silly topic because in this century, the whole world is connected because of advancements of technology, so we all have to have an advanced mindset to analyze world issues without creating clashes among nations. We need a peaceful world, so we all need to be friends not foes.

[@koltoncrane3099]

Yes we need to be friends in a global world. I think most countries can bury their head in the sand when it comes to human rights or concentration camps. What pisses governments off is when China steals billions in intellectual property. The US spends billions on research and development. Respecting property rights is a key factor when it comes to being friendly and trading.

[@labandonaldhock80]

we made a foe out of china, we need to leave china

[@AlienApe]

North Korea Uyghar Muslims Belt and Road Drug War (Fentynal) Huawei 5G Confucius Centers Propaganda Hong Kong and Taiwan Do I need to go on?

[@davidsimon3645]

@@koltoncrane3099 are you sure what are you talking ? Your CEO takes all the profit for their bonuses...pls do some researching

[@thomaspeh2970]

@@AlienApe ？

[@tomkelly8827]

It is so interesting to hear westerners like myself talk about China. The part I find most fascinating is that China is considered to be a country while its population is larger then that of all western countries combined! Personally I am friends with many chinese people, I disagree with the actions of many other Chinese people and mainly I have no clue what to think of such a large and very very diverse group of people who live so far away and speak and entirely different language then me without using letters. I feel very grateful to the nameless chinese people that have made my life much much easier because they provided so many fine goods at such low prices. I am glad to hear that their society is on an upswing after being in tatters for so long. I am so glad that they are bringing so many of us up with them

[@alanfriesen9837]

China is an empire, as are the United States and Russia.

[@ivantsl3496]

Alan Friesen Yes, China is an empire and it has been for thousands of years. It’s coming back stronger than before, so deal with it.

[@alanfriesen9837]

@@ivantsl3496 I'm totally cool with it. I'm an imperialist by nature. What I don't care for is nationalism.

[@gauravkaushal619]

@@ivantsl3496 i thought China is a developing country, is it not!

[@willengel2458]

@amannisa oigur how can you detain 5 million or just half million Uyghurs? feed and house them. just because the offshoot of taxpayers fund NED spouted such nonsense at the UN? use your brain or let it rot.

[@lsingh2467]

"I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole… we had entire training courses." This is a line from a speech made by U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Texas. Following a burst of laughter from the audience as a response to that line, Pompeo hastened to add: "It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment."

[@JC-sl7bs]

That reflects true American value. Just win, regardless.....

[@houshangsemino3702]

Talking like that has a reason the person who talks like that does it to exercise and enjoy his domination.

[@doncohen4360]

@@houshangsemino3702

[@gabrielcaleb9277]

Really ... Pretty bold

[@fls6767]

@L Singh And what exactly do you think the Chinese intelligence agencies or Russian agencies (FSB, GRU + 1000 others) are actually doing? Do you think they're in the business of telling the truth? That their actions in regards to foreign states are somehow benevolent? They're knights in shining armour, aren't they? Sad, too many Chinese tools commenting on these forums! ... or western useful idiots, which would actually be worse!!!

[@michalaugustyniak1877]

Old brits are terrified of losing the last scraps of their empire.

[@axelamps1279]

Wiki lists 168 empires. Guess whose is at the all time number 1? Yup, the British. *Achievement unlocked* :P

[@JC-sl7bs]

lmao

[@oligokid]

"I want China to do well, just not as well as us" - Donald Trump. There I just saved you 84 minutes of your life

[@brainwashington1332]

lol that was the first thing that came to my mind too!

[@RonaldMcPaul]

Thanks

[@carterhu1007]

'Fine, I guess I'll just have to do much better than you' - China

[@Lee-vb6ib]

Thank you for saving my time...

[@howso5302]

lol

[@mkthon3657]

China: Friend or Foe what a topic for debating? With due respect to all the three panels. Martin Wolf, Esq., Prof. Keyu Jin and Sir Malcolm Rilkind as well as the commentator Madam Carrie Gracie. 1) Friends has got two ways passages one must know to respect each other than Friendship remains and never can end. 2) Where as one constantly flaunts its muscles around worst still at your doorstep. How not to be "Foe". With China rising America should in fact be Happy to have a great competitor to Champion all rounds but instead taken the Phobia paths. What a shamed really.

[@60-second-HACKS]

It's all about American fright. America isn't competitive, so it resorts to war in all its guises. The most dissapointing aspect is the way western lackeys fall in behind.

[@Andy-P]

China is the rising power and is doing what all rising powers do. Make the world more agreeable to it. America is the current No1 power and is defending its position. So far seen off Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.Can it see off CCP rules China. The nations of the world may soon have decide are things better with America running things or would they be better with China running the show. They are no longer 'friends'

[@mkthon3657]

@@Andy-P What is there to defence. China achievement has not challenge to anyone, its another way round the Americans and its Alliance Partners were constantly provocating at China's doorsteps. That proven how frustrating, jealous and selfish they are. They are so habituated of bullying that they just cannot accept the facts that those were days has gone and cannot tolerate that China can tell them off now. Obviously they still couldn't believe it. What an astonishment really. CHINA Jia yu

[@Andy-P]

@@mkthon3657 Did you not see the Alaskan conference, read about Chinese air force incursions, the 14 points with Australia, SCS claims. That is challanging. For good or bad this is China pursuing her interests. Its Cold War 2 for the moment. Is this behavior welcomed by Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Phillipines, India ect...? If China wins then she will be able to forfill all these objectives. Am sure you will be happy for that.

[@mkthon3657]

@@Andy-PThe Alaska high level dialogue with the Cowboys was a splendid lesson China has given them. With the gearing up economy of China, this is the time China should allocate more budget into their defence R&D. Just ignored those Western Worlds criticism do what is benefiting for your own self as a priority. The Cowboys had done their for decades and that was why they can condemned others now.

[@user-pj5ro8vt1m]

Some country can not continue keep alive without finding country as a foe.

[@Karl-Benny]

We have just seen how the Law works in the USA and what about Blair and the illegal war on Iraq

[@matildamarmaduke1096]

Really how

[@jimmywest8684]

Big stick diplomacy

[@tweedy4sg]

Rule of law in the West only applies within their own country. When it comes to dealing with foreign countries, western countries will look at the relative power. If you're less powerful than them, then rule BY law applies. That's their oft-cited rules-based world order. Where the rules are made by them, and can & will be changed to their needs and convenience. That's how we get invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria & Libya in the last 20 years.

[@natn41r]

The question is problematic at the outset. Friend or foe are overly simplistic terms. China is not a person, it is an entity to be engaged with, and the real question for China and the West is how to best engage with each other to safeguard their individual interests, without going to war. Just like in business--and really, it all comes down to business--there are no eternal friends or foes. To categorise China as either a friend or a foe...is a childish and naive way of thinking about the relationship between countries.

[@beback_]

Exactly

[@dinojoe1788]

Isis, an entity to be engaged with: friend or foe?

[@guywebster8018]

oh I totally disagree. I think absolutely they are a foe and its a reasonable argument based on facts. Look what china as a nation has done from oppression, theft of intellectual property, it militaristic expansion to its manipulation of not only its currency but of nations goodwill. Absolutely they are a foe. Look whats goin on in Taiwan right now over a political trip from a sitting speaker. The list goes on and on.

[@phebeewhite1889]

If you treat someone as a foe, one will become foe to you.

[@zizizen3431]

China has always been a foe to “Democracy” and a friend to those who uphold their powers to control you and the rest of the world. Your rights and freedom are owned by the CCP.

[@bojoondong7911]

Zizi Zen are you living in China? Please don’t live in the past. Are you a perfect human. You make mistakes too right? If you make mistakes then please do not pass judgement on your own China otherwise just listen carefully about the positive side of China. If you can’t accept the reality of China has changed ... then it is too bad.

[@bojoondong7911]

Phebee White that’s the fact of life, can’t we all respect each other?

[@eileenzhang8046]

Bojoon Dong Mistakes? You mean put human right lawyers, activists , citizen journalists in jail ? Or put hundreds of thousands of Uighurs in concentration camp? I lived in China , I tell you how it is to live in China : i had no dignity as a human being , I had no freedom, I was fucking brainwashed day by day , I became selfish unsympathetic and stupid.

[@eileenzhang8046]

Bojoon Dong A totalitarian government doesn’t make mistakes , they are brutal killers , criminals and liars, and you are helping CCP to oppress Chinese people. CCP is not China !

[@Arcy0429]

“Democratic” - overused word of the West that doesn’t mean anything?

[@nsebast]

It means goverment of the people for the people that can be manipulated by the elites.

[@ahliong]

The illusion of choice to have the freedom to choose Part y A or Party B .

[@klchai7884]

In 250 years of existence as a nation, the US has fought against 29 sovereign countries. (In Fact, since 1785, US have been involved, for 219 years, in some kind of war. And this wars, against all varieties of sovereign nations. From going against the Sultan of Morocco, to invading the tiny island of Grenada. Well, this means that in its entire history, it has only had 17 years of peace, and even fewer, cuz here the almost 5 years (1861-1865), of its Civil War of Secession are not counted (Union/Confederates), since this war was not with another country, but against US. And the wars against the Native Nations of America are not counted too, for the same reason). Anyway: US fought against 29 countries. It has "Grown" 711 times the size of its territory from the original 13 colonies. It has provoked with total impunity, Genocides, inside and outside its own borders, and assassinations of Gov’t. Leaders, Coups d'État and Economic Blockades in 6 UN member nations. (Between 1947 and 1989, the US tried to change other nations gov’ts. 73 times. It includes 66 covert Ops. And 7 overt ones. In Civil Wars: The US has taken advantage of and intervened without justification in the following Civil Wars: In Cuba (1898 and 1960). In Haiti (1813 and then 1915-1934). In Colombia (1899-1902 and 1948). In Mexico (1847 and 1914 and again in 1916). In Russia (1918). In the "Republic Banana Wars" of Central America (1912-1934). In Venezuela (1945 and again in 1948). In China (1857, and 1900, and again in 1945-1946-1949). In Korea (1950-1953). In Viet Nam (1959-1975). In Panama (1964 and again 1989). In Central Africa (1969-1974 and 1982-1988). In Nicaragua (1937 and 1985). In Bosnia (1995). In the Philippines (1898 and 1900)... In Kosovo, Libya, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc.). And more: US has almost 800 Military Bases scattered around the world; 93 of which are against China. On the other hand, China and Korea (The "Axis of Evil"), in 1,000 years of history have NEVER invaded anyone. These nations have fought their Civil Wars, defended themselves against foreign invasions, and secured their immediate borders, but they have never been meddling or aggressor countries. Do you know how many Military Bases China or Korea have outside their territory? None. Zero. Any. NADA! They do not have a single Base. These are verifiable facts. Neither China nor Korea will invade the world; US does... that's DONE, as US does in the Middle East. Iran also does not have a SINGLE MILITARY BASE outside its national territory, and it is surrounded by 16 US Bases, and it is US who call the Iranians Terrorists. Well, very good. You already know. Now, compare the Greatness of the US with the Greatness of China. The "Greatness" of the US is built on the foundations of Piracy, Slavery, Genocide, the Assassination of opponents, Opium Traffic, or Cocaine in its case, and is under the foundations of the weakness of other sovereign nations. LOL….......

[@Arcy0429]

@@klchai7884 Thank you, KL! Very much appreciated! We all need to do our part to spread the truth!

[@chatreal7396]

That malcolm has no respect for his fellow panelist when he was spewing all the anti chinese rhetoric he address them to the Chinese professer, whereas he shd be addressing the audience. Shallow person.

[@maxloh6303]

Hahaha..... Talked as if he is wiser than the others but behaved like "a frog in the well". See is believing, sir. Go to China if you are welcome?

[@osmanjerry3272]

After one long year as we come back to this program, its so interesting to note the short-sightedness of some politicians. In fact its more than that, its simply blind loyalty.

[@emptywis3797]

The most old politicians don’t know better they have lived in a system who dominated the world bij force just like the Roman Empire. The top 5 security agency in the un are the top 5 weapon sellers in the world so they really don’t know better.

[@marywrong7041]

People in China is friend, but the CCP is foe.

[@osmanjerry3272]

@@marywrong7041 You are demolishing the home your friends stay in, how cruel!

[@JC-sl7bs]

@@marywrong7041 A foe who lifts hundreds of millions of your Chinese friends out of poverty in four decades of economic reform. It must be the most fearful one for you, right?.

[@chairmanmaomaotsetung5398]

@@marywrong7041 your nick speaks volumes . You're wrong. If you knew what you're talking about,you'd know that 95% of Chinese support central government. Does that mean that Chinese people are your foe too,just because they support CPC ? (to educate you, it's *CPC* not *CCP* ? But you'd already know that if you knew anything about China in the first place )

[@mrfong8122]

When was the last time that China came over to western countries to attack them in the last million years? Answer 0 times in how many wars outside of China has China been involved as the aggressor? Answer is also 0. In how many wars are is the USA involved now? How many did they start? How many flight carriers and other war ships are in Asia? How many of their military is in Asia right now and answer the same questions about Europe. Now again a new question does China look like an enemy or the USA and Europe? Just be honest here.

[@StephenZ827]

Well the last million years...can't seem to find written history that "China" even existed. Now to your point, I suggest you review what is taking place in the Spratly Islands, Hong Kong today, and just what do you think Tiwanna is fearing from China. Once you finish I suggest you go back a bit and see what brought on the wars in east Africa. Here's a clue, China back the gov. with money and arms ( machetes ring a bell )....Long sleeve, short sleeve. It was the discovery of oil. Move out the tribes using muslims terrorist. Hundreds of thousands fled their ancestral homes and headed south. Unfortunately oil was then discovered in the south, and once again the muslims ran everyone out.....Dufar sound familiar. As to aircraft carriers....they and any others have the right to navigate open international sea lanes...So that is a mute point. You failed to mention China ships sailing in and around the Persian Gulf...as they too protect their ships and oil purchases.

[@StephenZ827]

The BBC was also told that China was training fighter pilots who fly Chinese A5 Fantan fighter jets in Darfur. China's government has declined to comment on the BBC's findings, which contravene a UN arms embargo on Darfur. The embargo requires foreign nations to take measures to ensure they do not militarily assist anyone in the conflict in Darfur, in which the UN estimates that about 300,000 people have died. More than two million people are also believed to have fled their villages in Darfur, destroyed by pro-government Arab Janjaweed militia.

[@StephenZ827]

CHINA is making a bold move on the Spratly Islands. A fishing fleet - backed by navy frigates and coast guard vessels - has surrounded the Philippines island of Pagasa/Thitu. The island is the largest land mass occupied by the Philippines in the island group. International observers say the close-in naval and fishing fleet presence around sandbars close to the island is a highly provocative move which is at odds with Beijing’s narrative that its land-grab in the South China Sea is over. But Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte appears unwilling to stand up to Beijing. “Why should I defend a sandbar and kill the Filipinos because of a sandbar?” Duterte stated overnight.

[@StephenZ827]

Seizing Sandy Cay would be one of Beijing’s most provocative acts since its 2012 occupation of Scarborough Shoal. The sandbar featured in last year’s International Court of Arbitration ruling, which found against China’s claims to the entire South China Sea. Its proximity within 12 nautical miles (22km) of the occupied Subi Reef was highlighted as a potential counter to Beijing’s territorial claims. China has ignored the ruling.

[@DipakBose-bq1vv]

China invaded every country along its border and now it invaded international water.

[@Dan8254]

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last. Winston Churchill

[@riokriok2863]

what democracy you talking about when one percent control 75 percent of the wealth of the world you humiliety your self

[@joylove8693]

This Chinese lady is very beautiful and smart, she is doing so well here.

[@maxloh6303]

Absolutely, not only smart but also intelligent and wise.

[@mhow4967]

She's the best 😌

[@Bochai2023]

Well trained communist embedded in UK

[@mikeny5020]

@@maxloh6303 And you’re remarkably moron you cannot even tell that she works for the communist government

[@mikeny5020]

You’re so dumb that you cannot even tell that she works for the Chinese government it’s called communist

[@lenof2199]

What about transparency such as a statement on conflict of interest?

[@regentprince6537]

Ruling by law sounds really good, that is the extreme goal for every country. But think about it, how many times you guys are changing your laws just for satisfying your interests?

[@hubreydavid9422]

No Different to what the British did too the Falkland .

[@bill4056]

congrats to the lady, she answered very well. i love the way she answered, very logical and realistic.

[@4x4crx]

She is very smart and very political but she did avoid or brush over the main issues

[@Andy-P]

It amuses me that the lady and CCP tell the UK they are not a threat. It is up to the UK and the British people to form their own opinion. CCP may represent mainland China but they deffinitely do not represent Britain.

[@Eric-hh1de]

@@Andy-P but in 300 years of history is western country and UK threat and invaded others country around the world not China.

[@Andy-P]

@@Eric-hh1de Thats history. The west does not live in the past but tries to learn by it. Sometimes unsuccesfully as Afghan and some other scenarios have revealed. China seems to want to roll the clock back to the Qing. China says they will invade Taiwan. That is the threat to global stability. The west feels threatened by China plan to roll back western civilisation and values. The CCP can 'tell' the world it is not a threat. But some of the world does not see it that way.

[@paulchen2224]

@@Andy-P is the Quad not a threat to global security with the focus of anti China just because of Taiwan.. (Taiwan is not without a peaceful option!!)

[@expendable1439]

Huawei: But I haven’t done anything you can proof West: we’re afraid of what you might one day somehow be forced to do

[@stevetarrant3898]

Meng Wanzhou signed court documents admitting guilt. Slam dunk. She clearly lied about their dealings with Iran. And Huawei, a major, multinational corporation, is just another tentacle of the CCP.

[@huibun]

This is a very constructive dialogue model for people to talk to each other, it would be naive to think and speak for oneself, just as much so, to think there is a universal perfect solution/route to fix it all in one. The panelists are great, and so are the audience and host.

[@user-vu8ub1cr2g]

C.C.P country

[@yowu7446]

glad i watched this. great topic and interesting public opinion conclusion

[@Tagumbol-kz4fn]

Alan Wu : CCP virus(covid 19) could have been contained had they not lied, had they shared information in the onset of the outbreak instead they lied and went to the extent of undercounting the real data. Only now under pressure did China reported increased number of deaths by 50%... to them face saving is more important than accepting the truth, huawei 5G can be used against the West,USA & the whole world...when our country brought them to the court of permanent arbitration China as a mean of getting back suddenly found problems with our bananas and pineapples....do not allow circumstances to become irreversible China will bleed us dry...

[@lonecandle5786]

China just asked for tribute and didn't conquer its neighbors? China was an empire. It grew so large by conquering its neighbors.

[@Furtivo95]

Next time invite Eric Li so he can take over the debate. Keyu Jin was played like a violin.

[@strongfree1179]

China and India had been living together peacefully for thousands years before the UK invaded India and created the boarder disputes with China.

[@strongfree1179]

Mahesh Shende I don’t know where your conclusions come from. Border disputes exist among many countries, I believe China and India have the wisdom to resolve this issue. And Countries like China or India would never be destroyed by outside power. China have found the right way to make great economic achievements in the last 40 years, I wish the good luck to my Indian friends.

[@bobbarkeriii2597]

@@strongfree1179 Plus, China took Dao and Confuctionism from India. They are friendly countries. India should stop buying American F-15 planes and start buying its weapons from China instead.

[@thenutbrothers8726]

Thousands years ,really? Till 1949 India did not have border issues because Uighurs were not occupied by Chinese and after 1949 problems arised. Stop leeking Chinese ass

[@strongfree1179]

the nut brothers Uighur were occupied by China in 1949? Can you do some historical research before make comments? Or just google a world map before 1949? I respect everyone ‘s opinion except filthy nonsense.

[@chunshengluo9074]

@@bobbarkeriii2597 Daoism is pure Chinese creation.

[@cbujik]

While I'm an anglophile and have great admiration of the uk culture, the Brits tend to forget that when Britannia ruled the wave they did far worst atrocities in the world. The way they used their mi6 to remove mossadegh of iran, the way they got Israel to attack Nasser when he nationalized the Suez canal and the way they removed the sultan of Zanzibar to appoint a sultan who was more pro Britain were just a few examples of how Britain is no angel either in geopolitics of the world.

[@cbujik]

@Adam LB I do love British culture sans it's imperialistic past. You should also check your grammar.

[@alisonrogerson3143]

All cultures have abused its peoples right from the start of civilisation! The Arabs conducted the slave trade 1,000 before the way we did

[@yeai2773]

And a small quote from Encyclopedia Britannica: ¨Foreign traders (primarily British) had been ILLEGALLY exporting opium mainly from India to China since the 18th century... ¨

[@kiwitrainguy]

Was it MI6 or the CIA that was instrumental in deposing Mossadegh? Yes, The British Empire practiced slavery until 1830, then they abolished it and compensated the slave owners (not, however, the slaves). They also abolished the Slave Trade and used their Royal Navy ships to make sure no one else participated in it either.

[@Aluminata]

They were ignorant, arrogant, imbecilic a-holes - but they meant well. 😅

[@Diderot68]

UK definitely behaves like a subject and not just an ally.

[@theodoreteo1408]

China is a friend or foe depending how each country wants the relationship to be. Just like everyone of us we cannot be friend with everyone. We all have different values, different culture and different expectations. And in the end to the West it depends on USA.

[@santaoct]

Brits discussing China like they could influence anything, clearly nobody in China wastes time setting up a forum to discuss the UK

[@gofy9990]

Savage

[@MN-yb8un]

That not how debating works or is about

[@gofy9990]

@@MN-yb8un Why not debate what's on the backside of the moon instead of China China China.

[@Alkalite]

That's because, as Keyu said, China allows for differences between societal systems and so is not bothered by how the U.K. treats it's people, where as the west is less tolerant and more critical. You all have to realize this distinction to understand China.

[@user-yi5bf5vc5y]

Nobody is allowed to discuss, we only tell people what’s wrong and what’s right.

[@sunnyang8970]

I have to said that my mother is staying Fujian China, she is Catholic，she goes to the church every week. You can talk about religious anywhere and anytime you like in China, no religious restriction in China.

[@dinojoe1788]

Except if you are Muslim

[@crowerussel3412]

OK, Satan will believe your words.

[@hongyiwu7980]

@@crowerussel3412 suit yourself if you want to just cover up your ears and live in your own world.

[@hongyiwu7980]

@@dinojoe1788 Go to any Chinese city and search for a Halal restaurant, you will be surprised as to how many there are.

[@crowerussel3412]

@@hongyiwu7980 And Peng Shuai!!!???

[@2smoulder]

Sir Malcolm Rifkind always speaks as if he is 100% correct on every issue, which has always given me concern because he is often a stranger to the truth. Of course, there are issues with firms in China being subject to state control, which is also the case on a different level in most other countries, particularly the US. Rifkind also skirts around the problem that the UK is often subservient to the US in economic policy, investment etc. It is refreshing that Professor

[@johnm7267]

I remember Rifkind years ago when he used his position to block some development where he lived. He lived if I remember in a little village in Cumbria and was minister of planning and while giving the go ahead for all sorts of controversial planned applications he blocked one that affected where he lived. That is the sort of person they have on these debates

[@klu7499]

He conveniently ignores 90% of countries that has democracy but remains poor while singing praises to Japan and S. Korea as shining examples of success brought about by democracy... The truth is all these Asian successes are due to Confucian societies, not the mode of political system.

[@annarboriter]

yes, 90%, such an easy to remember and disprove statistic

[@klu7499]

@@annarboriter There are only 195 countries in UN. If you exclude the 47 developed countries, the rest of the 148 countries are still poor. Of these 148, how many are successful economy with democracy? I would say my 90% is conservative and should be adjusted to 95%. Isn't it?

[@user-bt2yz2fq7h]

In East Asia, almost all democratic countries are rich, and all non-democratic countries are poor, war-ridden, violent and greedy, For example, north Korea, myanmar, Cambodia and other countries.This is the truth.

[@klu7499]

@UCPLZriyndiEMDf3wW1Cl-cw How do you explain India and Philippine and over 100 democracies in the world that remain poor? I will put forward democracy is a trap to exploit people around the world by the West. On the other hand, there are lots of rich country that has no democracy, like USA.

[@klu7499]

@@user-bt2yz2fq7h Philippine, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia are democracies with elections monitored by international observers (including observers from Canada, UK and USA). So why are they still poor? BTW, Taiwan and S. Korea are dictatorship ruled by generals and successfully rich before they turned "democratic".

[@rogerkim4611]

Sir Malcom, could you explain FedEx case ?

[@nealpepe]

Good point. Malcolm dares not mention that.

[@KKLIM5]

Julian Assange ?Edward Snowden ?

[@mohammedismailkhan5474]

Very interesting debate. All experts lending their opinion. However it’s a seemingly biased, afraid of Chinese domination!

[@aabevbooze5689]

I admire that she’s soooo calm of hearing all the craps from her right hand side man.

[@user-ky5ws4gd6x]

她没有什么实质性的论据证明她的观点，她自己都不相信自己说的。

[@Wellyyoung]

I could feel her frustration and exasperation of the anti China narratives coming esp from the guy sitting next to the moderator.

[@JC-ik4zb]

@@user-ky5ws4gd6x 脑回路不清晰，这女的不会辩论

[@user-vv4df8cj2x]

我觉得她说得很好，有理有据，被攻击也能沉着应对。她右边那个老头吃相太难看，胡言乱语

[@ram-lj9kz]

They are right in a lot of way

[@DineshTwanabasu]

What did british did to Iraq and all other colonized states of the world. UK should remember what they did in history and what they are doing. Double standard at it best.

[@positivemindsets2225]

Dinesh Twanabasu Truth

[@bojoondong7911]

Aramsawafer 🤣🤣🤣

[@bojoondong7911]

Thank for giving all the correct answers ... All ticks for this multiple choice questions on this British . Such a racist..

[@louong93]

British have colonized Malaysia and Singapore but build hospitals and schools that still exist today.

[@jormabaines3651]

@Aramsawafer the British have made mistakes in the past but no other country has had the sense of fair play that the British government has

[@selfissimo]

In the whole debate I think there is one problem that has been muted which is that the Western country and China dont't share the same value system and probably won't. China, as a multiracial country which has been bullied by the west for years has realized the problem and looking for a way to balance it. However, the west hasn't realized this problem and keeps thinking every country in the world eventually will be like them. In terms of political and legal system. This whole opinion is wrong. China amended their cyber security laws to give the government possibility to "instruct" not because of the government wants to. It is because of China has never been in so much risk in the new standard of digital world which the orders were set by the west. China has been a victim of long term and constantly biased journalism from the so called "free" Western meida, which is the most important reason for China to ban Facebook and Google. Take a look at what Facebook and Google have contributed in the progress of the "world liberation" during the last three decades. Did we see a more peaceful and united continent or world which they claimed to be of their vision? No, what they did was separation, promotion of hate and confrontation, spreading of false news and biased views. When a country doesn't suffer all these, why does it need a cyber security law? a cencorship? a reeducational institute? China is making an example for the rest of the world to how to fight against these disturbances, which never asked any country to follow because it understands every country has its own rule of laws. But on the contrary, the Western world is measuring China in every possible way to put China in that category they are most familiar with and critisize it when it doesn't fit. Which is exactly what the BBC host and Malcolm were doing in this debate. China gives people hope, while such arrogant supericy point of view gives people disgust.

[@F_Liu]

well said, very true!

[@meganh9460]

Sounds like a Chinese collectivist bitching about individualism.

[@albertchow4333]

Professor Keyu Jin, 非常好给您点个赞👍🏻

[@danielwupsu]

Yes she is amazing

[@jacklu1611]

When was this debate held?

[@osmanjerry3272]

Accept differences, let's differ and go friendly.

[@JXY2019]

Osman Jerry accept differences like lack of free speech or elections?

[@jerryloo2227]

Accept that they don't have a general election to select their government leaders, accept that they have a different degree to freedom of speech. On the first case it's obviously different. On the second case, it's very subjective.just because you prefer not to control means it's a good value? Or what you call universal values is god defined? Your human rights allows gay marriage while most others not willing to accept. If this is the exception than what credibility is in so called universal values? Shall we not allow to adapt to requirements? Please, don't things face values, it's dangerous and not helping to clarify discussion.

[@jthom5951]

@@JXY2019 Elections in China en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China

[@shmeckle666]

Mr. Clark ah yes, freedom of speech and elections. We Americans have such political freedoms and are too cowardly to defend them or even use them. Continually voting for the two compromised political parties, and too cowardly to even use our free speech-you can’t even talk about Zionism without being socially assassinated lol. Yeah, we get to vote and protest, good. Very good. And the State listens oh so intently, in one ear and out the other. And the State continues to work for their parasitic foreign/domestic interests. So, all that matters is that the facade of political freedom and freedom of speech free from political/State punishment. We don’t want war-we wage them anyway. We don’t want to bail out the criminal neoliberal corporate entities that destroyed our economy-we do it anyway. The middle class continues to be destroyed, jobs continued to be sent over seas, neoliberal transnational corporate economic policies continue to gut the US, more special interest floods into the political milieu, infrastructure continues to decline, blah-blah-blah....but, but we voted for it. Lol.

[@raymondwong3739]

but usa wants to take down china's economy hence robbing and controlling china .. it isn't a friend or foe talk anymore.. it's about someone else's livelihood!

[@rusticbox9908]

@47:52 That's perfect! Wow... Malcolm, you dare bring up the Indian/China border dispute? I wonder how that problem came to being SIR? @1:11:03 ROFL~!!!!

[@SelfReflective]

Malcolm Rifkind just devastated his opposition. And when he went nuclear and called China's government a dictatorship that strictly regulates the internet, there was no reply. Just platitudes.

[@joselinero4248]

"The western values..." Ha,Ha,Ha...

[@C5836]

In politics there are no permanent friends or foes. China foreign policy is always to be a friend, unless refused. They will just walk away.

[@tianhu9243]

China's foreigh policy is not always to be friend. Read: www.hoover.org/research/china-us-relations-eyes-chinese-communist-party-insiders-perspective-zhong-gong-yan-zhong

[@60-second-HACKS]

Western arrogance and xenophobia always fully on display in these discussions.

[@aoeu256]

哪里？

[@OlivePittsOnDesk]

Spoken like a leftist who can't see all the evils of China, its crimes, its arrogance and lies, but has unfounded orgasms of hatred for America,

[@SONMINHTRAN1]

You are really stupid to comment this way as you know nothing about Qin or Han ethnic’s ambition and arrogance to their neighboring small states.

[@stevebrindle1724]

@@OlivePittsOnDesk The real point is that the U.S.A. is a neoliberal warmongering entity run by an elite band on behalf of giant corporations and banksters. It cannot meet the aspirations of its own people who are blinded by the myth of American exceptionalism as the "American dream" rapidly dissolves into a nightmare for the impoverished working-class and the shrinking middle classes! There are only two possibilities, either there will be a revolt in America to bring down the ruling class there or the military-industrial complex will engage in more and larger wars that will have the same result but with a lot more dead people before the end!

[@exilius333]

@@stevebrindle1724 Yeah you clearly didn't grow up in China or know the history of most nations. Step out of the bubble

[@Liminghwa]

I think one thing that wasn't highlighted in this debate is that most of Malcolm's accusations against China are not founded but are based on propaganda and exaggerations of actual events. If you're biased, you don't take the effort to know the context and understand the other side.

[@user-gz1vp4wz4n]

The following represents my personal opinion, I am a Chinese! A big country, an ambitious and powerful country with a clear and solid guiding ideology. As long as the above points are met, the way she understands and acts at any time is based on whether he is willing or not. Or listen like an adult, smile at the old man and retreat, or quarrel passionately or even anxiously like a young man, cry like a child, and eventually he will decide whether to shut his mouth decisively and act. The solution that most people in this world understand is only that most people are lucky enough to watch or participate, and the final result is only decided by those few people. It is as simple as it is complicated. The greatest skill of a politician is to complicate simple things, while great aspiring men are always simple.

[@cherrieleung9080]

Friend or foe is like real life.. how you treat them and in return.

[@littlemoutha9998]

Treat as you treated, trick n treat us way mebahahahaaaaasses

[@wenyicvs]

No way. They are dictatorship. You compromise and you lose.

[@littlemoutha9998]

But them china brung 75% of population out of poverty and still stomping povert, more like authoritarian socialist capitalistic system not a dictatorship. what nation do you live in, may i ask, u seem undereducated... mwbahahaaaaass

[@CandideSchmyles]

This is true. China lifts millions out of poverty. The UK kicks its poor and working classes back into poverty. And as for freedom of speech... the UK can lecture nobody when Julian Assange languishes in solitary confinement for publishing the truth!

[@littlemoutha9998]

No idol, You intelligent counter is hard to counter. Kudos for explaining it to those brainwashed fools. You well educated on topic.

[@positivemindsets2225]

Japan SKorea all have to take orders and approvals from the US! don’t tell me they are independent region.... only some level of economic development....

[@senssinekong1332]

Positive Mindsets, Attention: at 50s' 60s' and the first half of 70s', N.Korean economy was too much better than S.Korea. Just at the second a half US, EU, and Japan widely invested to east and south-east Asia both on finances and technologies, it brought S.Korea's economies have been growing quickly until now. While at the end of 80s', USSR collapsed, it caused N.Korea's economies were collapsed, and at same time US and West started to sanction against N.Korea until now. So these caused S.Korea became a rich and strong country, and N.Korea became a poor and struggling country. For this case: S.Korea has to listen to US, because No US, No S.Korea, same with before N.Korea with USSR.

[@wasabimanic]

BS IMy parents in law are FAR FAR more free and happy than with china or north korea You think north Koreans are happy ? !!

[@hectoOut]

Wrong Mindsets Right, some level of economic development! Didnt you copy Japan and Korean high tech and learn from them so much?! At least they developed and their people benifit. Tell me any countries in the region took orders from you and become developed? More like they ended up selling their pussiee😢

[@jonroyyubeleno532]

Mutual trade agreements are different from dictats. China dictates terms in its BRI programs, has not produced verifiable accounts of its business activities, on one hand, and steals advance technologies from the US, on the other.

[@dnmurphy48]

Of course they are independent, liar

[@shenbapiro1291]

Why do westerners feel the right to dictate what other societies should do

[@jimmylee6256]

Why should the Belt and Road project be free? When a country agreed upon the project, it should take the responsibility to pay the debt. It is the spirit of doing business. How could some of the world leaders blame China on this problem? They didn't do anything to help those countries in Asia or Africa and just criticized without any reasons. If the business dealing is done in a fair fashion, it should be respected.

[@pengwei6568]

Simple logic. You were robber in the past, now you are old, the neighbour boy became big guy. You are very worried the big boy will come to rob you.

[@catmetal6322]

Before the big boy does anything, they start poking, as if they want to be robbed to make it fair

[@captiveexile2670]

The Western nations till have a penchant for "legal larceny". An example might be the stringent sanctions on a poorer nation such as IRAN-- whose people suffered greatly under the cruel war (including use of poison gas) of Saddam Hussein. Who stand to profit from a "strangling" of IRANIAN REVENUE? Obviously Saudi-Arabia will pocket a few hundred million extra monthly is she can take up the extra demand previously filled by Iran. Ah, but Russia & China do NOT APPROVE of America's unilateral suspension of a U.N. Mediated Treaty such as the J.C.P.O.A. Bible prophecy also denounces such an abrupt action (Isaiah 33:8-12 "the treaty is broken" and also Jeremiah 4:10-13 "a hot and very scorching wind" that arose from the desert sounds much like the HOT FALLOUT CLOUD of an unexpected NUCLEAR EXPLOSION --- MECCA PERHAPS? (the final sting of a dying Yemeni Scorpion?) OMG --- and the U.S.A. would probably wind up being BLAMED for starting it all (in view of POTUS' bad case of ISLAMOPHOBIA. After all, he passed judgement on the dark-skinned "Central Park Five"-- who later turned out to be innocent of beating and leaving a jogger for dead. POINT? Some ugly people should judge themselves, rather than others! (America is treading on "thin ice", and it appears as if POTUS is but a "TROJAN HORSE", acting on behalf of his wealthy Saudi "friends". There. Does THAT earn me a bullet in the skull for quoting a "bible verse"? ISAIAH 5:20!

[@goldenlee7503]

@Tony 天道有轮回as in chinese

[@gregohb]

So you admit that China is the biggest theif in the world

[@BjornsLIfe]

The US hasn’t been a robber. We’ve helped to build the Chinese economy. We are friends. Us and China. We just gotta find good common ground and be fair and good to each other. I love China. Don’t go the enemy route.

[@hungmanxxxx2462]

1:20:20 Martin's pragmatic view of the world!.....collaboration is much better than WARS!!!!!

[@kkc2354]

Here's an interesting message: Imagine if US & China WORK TOGETHER for the BETTERMENT of HUMANITY? The World unite & prosper, just like in the serial Star Trek. United Nation is the result of this kind of revolutionary idea, post WW1 WINTER IS COMING! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpban6yLf8ysd5Y

[@wynetsang]

Toddler mentality is yummu or yucky. After the toddler grow up and attended Harvard University, he will think: "you are either with us or against us!" - friend or foe.

[@solomonkalit5119]

Very interesting discussions...

[@rockysolid7762]

The guy says : the government must abide the law I say : Hypocrite!!!

[@anyone1200]

DHL.. Double Standard, Hypocrisy & Lies.

[@user-vv4df8cj2x]

Tony Blair

[@tsbm9]

i used to respect the bbc, now, the bbc is just like the US liberal media.

[@dixonpinfold2582]

Yeah. Ask what happened and the answer is very unsettling and could fill a bookshelf.

[@wasabimanic]

I'm ex bbc a still bitter ex employee , the worst bullying oppressive attitudes i have ever experienced in my professional life.

[@JonathanBester-eh9cl]

You prefer Right Wing Media like Fox News, Breitbart and "Alex Jones" type of media. I'm sure there is a Fascist news channel just waiting for you

[@Nron-ni4gj]

@@JonathanBester-eh9cl Communist is more left than liberal.

[@hectoOut]

@@Nron-ni4gjChinese Communism is neither left nor right. It s good for Chinese folks but it is just wrong for the world!

[@oak2065]

It seems Ms. Jin is a speaker for the Chinese government.

[@robertcalamusso4218]

Sir Malcom’ lead intro. Excellent. Ping needs to listen.

[@chookyrobert1396]

I recommended him to debate with George Galloway and Martin Jacques and Kishore Mahbubani,Nathan Rick,CGTN- Liu Xin,Zang WeiWei,Victor You and Eric Lee.Think the old man will flat off.

[@elogasparian2618]

Thank you from a listener...

[@johnwill8467]

Authoritarian versus democratic ... oil and water. She was looking pretty uncomfortable when they started mentioning 'rule of law' - and how the people of China are 'ruled' by the government - rather than the law applying to both government and the citizenry. The only hope - is the younger generation.

[@HmongGuitarPlayer]

Friend if you want to eat all you can eat Chinese foods. Foe if you stay too long and don’t leave.

[@r.a.8618]

It's interesting how Malcolm Rifkind used Japan, South Korea, India and Indonesia. India and Indonesia were colonized. Japan and South Korea were forced to opened up and adopted democracy. Japan was controlled by the US ever since they lost WW2. Korea was ruthlessly divided into North and South after WW2. South Korea received support from the US during the Korea War. If you take these facts into consideration, it's obvious how these countries came to adopt a democracy.

[@kiwitrainguy]

What about Taiwan?

[@sq386]

@@kiwitrainguy what about Taiwan then?

[@sq386]

That’s so true. Malcolm is so biased and paranoid. Advancement of a country to him means conquering and colonizing. It’s just so interesting to hear from him talking about Hong Kong. Mind google how UK got Hong Kong in the first place?

[@sieteocho]

There's another counter-example: Russia is "western" too. There were plenty of opportunities for Russia to become more like western Europe in terms of liberal democracy. So why did it not eventually become a liberal democracy? Why are some of America's flyover states more inclined to support a fascist dictator like Donald Trump? That's the same reason why some countries in East Asia have resembled the West more (it is a mistake to think of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore as resembling Western Europe because even Japan is not that democratic - Japan is practically a one party democracy).

[@loukwo9054]

Malcolm needs to update his understanding of the modern China. He is living in the past.

[@chuamengkim6020]

Foregone conclusion based on assumption for this second gentleman ! No wonder , USA has so many enemies in the world . Even God will not punish anyone unless proved guilty. USA has lived under this dictatorship , lies , outdated beliefs and hatred .....heading for self destruction !

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

Chinese propaganda no longer works in the west.

[@jj26674]

@@chuamengkim6020 Could you pls just be honest

[@60-second-HACKS]

If China behaved like America, THEN we'd really have something to worry about.

[@matildamarmaduke1096]

Past predicts the future

[@daksze6541]

Minds opening debate , well done.

[@imwan9560]

Thanks youu

[@MRTY323]

"...belligerent towards Taiwan..." Lol because technically they're still at war? No armistice or ceasefire was ever signed.

[@Xaiando]

They just restricted visas for Chinese mainlanders wanting to travel to Taiwan.

[@Xaiando]

Today

[@MRTY323]

Yes they did. Probably posturing for the Taiwanese presidential election. But these never turn out well for them, the more they intimidate, the pro independence movement get stronger.

[@kestockbridge]

@@MRTY323 And Taiwan should have full independence, if that's what the population wants

[@kestockbridge]

@@MRTY323 As should Tibet

[@alaltest9319]

What is Western style rule of law ? 1. Arrest of huawei CFO by Canada in internationa airport transit area 2. UK seizure of Iranian Oil tanker In high sea. ( The opium war was also a rule of law!) For western powers, the problem is not the law, the problem is the Regime in power. Today, the US regime is the law.

[@IhateCCP]

huawei 's entire organization has commited crimes against humanity. Their founder and board are Communist Party members who has murdered over 70 million chinese. Continuing their organ harvesting, largest concentration camp in the world. Huawei is a crime organization and a disgrace to people.

[@BL-wu9jw]

@@IhateCCP Geez. You really bought everything the media reports - hook, line and sinker. Do a bit of investigating before spewing ignorant comments.

[@woncn6248]

@@IhateCCP You really show the hypocrisy of the Western media.

[@nose123456ful]

al altest you are a Chinese 50 cents

[@sighwestberry5079]

@@IhateCCP .as regards your comment.....didnt Jesus say... ......first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye........

[@rodneykawecki1770]

Mankind is worth its weight in gold, extremely so it is the stronghold of intellect. It is a national threat that some people should not govern. At all. Centralizing intelligent methods .. across the world may cause conflicts of interest where the racial image of global quantizing may be considered non-absolute even today.

[@alanfriesen9837]

Sir Malcolm states that China presents its political model as an alternative to the Western Democratic model. I've never seen a Chinese suggest that other countries should adopt their model, at least not since the seventies. My observation is that China doesn't really care what the political model of other countries are and only insists on its model within what it considers to be part of China, and even in that case they've accepted postponement. His assertion that other Chinese societies have been more successful with Western models is also questionable. Taiwan and Singapore both blossomed from highly authoritarian seeds. Hong Kong had never been democratic before 1997 and has lost relative standing ever since. All three have benefited from Cold-War anticommunist investment that the Peoples' Republic could never have gotten. In fact, if China had not "fallen to the communists" in 1949 then none of east Asia would have had the support and investment that helped build up the capitalist economies from Singapore all the way to Japan.

[@samtang6810]

Yes,I also don't understand what they saying,mostly like 中国砖家.

[@meganh9460]

I have seen it, 'The world and the US should accept socialism with Chinese characteristics. Its the future.' both from its people, and state run media.

[@alanfriesen9837]

@@meganh9460 Oh there's probably the odd booster here or there. It's nothing like the western insistence on liberal democracy that borders on political evangelism though. I don't know the tone of your quote, but I don't see it as necessarily insistent.

[@alanfriesen9837]

@@j2174 I don't think China has pushed its political model since the days of Mao. The political model that existed at that time is no longer followed in China. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. I'm not sure what context you're referring to here. It's not that I doubt you; there is a lot of information I didn't provide.

[@dixonpinfold2582]

Like most Chinese supporters of the Communist Party of China, you have little regard for Japan, Taiwan, and Singapore. I disagree, believing that they deserve the pride they take in the prosperity and freedom they have achieved. China has been the mentally retarded giant of the region, face it. And it's due to Communism.

[@rosmalinamalina9260]

China is a country. Hard working. You deserve all the respect📜🖋️

[@hectoOut]

So are other countries except they are more cunning than you😢

[@kingdomjerusalem7329]

China is run by criminal bands and families

[@jimrule8652]

53,000 troops lost their life 250,000,000 citizens lost their lives in the Vietnam war, A war. Without any sense of purpose,

[@frankyeo8931]

I haven't seen this before. And its fabulous to see Carrie Gracie. Haven't seen her in ages.

[@wowyzaoy]

there was some German dude who said at some war crime trial "you can easily control any population by convincing them that they are under threat".

[@dixonpinfold2582]

You're talking about China, right? Before long it will have 100 million facial-recognition cameras, then a billion. That's where the population is being controlled.

[@user-ln1gv1bc6q]

dixon pinfold In future when artificial intelligence is widely used in every country, you will find no public place without facial recognition system.

[@user-ln1gv1bc6q]

dixon pinfold US government and companies have collected personal secrets for years. The problem is just you don’t know that😂

[@dixonpinfold2582]

@@user-ln1gv1bc6q I know it perfectly well. The trustworthiness of a government is much greater when the constitution imposes multi-party elections. The problem is you just don't know that.

[@dixonpinfold2582]

@@user-ln1gv1bc6q I do not relish that possibility. What comforts me a little is that multi-party elections open up the possibility that limits and safeguards will be introduced on public surveillance. In China, that possibility awaits the growth of a democratic spirit such as that seen in Hong Kong at present. Here in the West, the government is not your dad. You do not live under his roof. He cannot beat his wife and children and then brag to the world about how smoothly his household runs. Here in the West one can breathe free. I urge you not to regard democracy as anti-Chinese. If you want a Western system to call anti-Chinese, try communism. Democracy can fit any nation or people, so long as they weren't born to be ruled, and don't prefer to live under the roof of a strict and violent dad. Cheers.

[@forexking]

Some people view life as a journey. Some view it as a competition. Some even view it as a torture or punishment. Some as a test. Some a challenge. Some as an opportunity. Then it will decide what they view others as. But losers will usually will view others as an enemy. Foe? What is a foe? What is one's biggest foe?

[@wishfulguy4819]

The biggest foes of oneself is him n herself.

[@buck4490]

Get real. A foe is one that steals consistently, that extends it's borders and brutalizes it own people, and has no regard for the democratic norms our own countries are based upon. China is a brutal dictatorship and should be stopped by all freedom loving nations. This is not a philosophical question.

[@stayprepared2388]

china gain benefits , you are a friend . china do not gain any benefits , you are a foe.

[@mhow4967]

I'm not Chinese. China should start charging the West Just the way the West charge China. The game has to be fair. Unfortunately, we in the West we heard from China very little because the language of English/French are not available to us at ease on hand.

[@tgunersel]

Very useful and colorful :)

[@jamesw3605]

The presence of China in other countries is always related to some form of infrastructure, trains, roads, railway, bridges etc. The presence of US in other countries is always related to sanctions and military actions.

[@thealligator918]

China is an oppressive country. check Hong Kong's protests.

[@htin08]

@@thealligator918 Protesters raided the parliament house, blocked main roads and subways and international airport. Yet, no shots fired and no protesters die. That means China is freeier than the West.

[@paulineng6177]

Also to provide works for their own not the natives.

[@j2174]

Crippling debt and repossession of assets (ports, etc) built in other countries is a form of warfare, its economic warfare. The US has also partaken in economic warfare in the past.

[@BL-wu9jw]

@@thealligator918 HK protests are due to the inability to read and understand of what is a perfectly good law and order bill - the extradition bill, fanned by subversive elements keen on destabilising China. What is so oppressive about extraditing murderers to face trial in the countries where the crimes are committed?

[@Realist-sh3dg]

Two grand parents vs the grand daughter with a totally different view of the world.

[@ggc7318]

Check out who is the father of the grand daughter first. Her father is the banker, founder of AIIB bank at China.😆

[@RonzigtheWizard]

It seems that in almost any panel discussing global politics the topic most likely to be discussed is China/America and they always seem to put two westerners against one Chinese. In every case the Chinese panelist is far stronger that the others;.

[@ggc7318]

That "grand daughter " has her agenda. Check out who is her daddy first.😀

[@condocows7635]

@@ggc7318 And the old men are well known American CIA operatives.

[@klchai7884]

In 250 years of existence as a nation, the US has fought against 29 sovereign countries. (In Fact, since 1785, US have been involved, for 219 years, in some kind of war. And this wars, against all varieties of sovereign nations. From going against the Sultan of Morocco, to invading the tiny island of Grenada. Well, this means that in its entire history, it has only had 17 years of peace, and even fewer, cuz here the almost 5 years (1861-1865), of its Civil War of Secession are not counted (Union/Confederates), since this war was not with another country, but against US. And the wars against the Native Nations of America are not counted too, for the same reason). Anyway: US fought against 29 countries. It has "Grown" 711 times the size of its territory from the original 13 colonies. It has provoked with total impunity, Genocides, inside and outside its own borders, and assassinations of Gov’t. Leaders, Coups d'État and Economic Blockades in 6 UN member nations. (Between 1947 and 1989, the US tried to change other nations gov’ts. 73 times. It includes 66 covert Ops. And 7 overt ones. In Civil Wars: The US has taken advantage of and intervened without justification in the following Civil Wars: In Cuba (1898 and 1960). In Haiti (1813 and then 1915-1934). In Colombia (1899-1902 and 1948). In Mexico (1847 and 1914 and again in 1916). In Russia (1918). In the "Republic Banana Wars" of Central America (1912-1934). In Venezuela (1945 and again in 1948). In China (1857, and 1900, and again in 1945-1946-1949). In Korea (1950-1953). In Viet Nam (1959-1975). In Panama (1964 and again 1989). In Central Africa (1969-1974 and 1982-1988). In Nicaragua (1937 and 1985). In Bosnia (1995). In the Philippines (1898 and 1900)... In Kosovo, Libya, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc.). And more: US has almost 800 Military Bases scattered around the world; 93 of which are against China. On the other hand, China and Korea (The "Axis of Evil"), in 1,000 years of history have NEVER invaded anyone. These nations have fought their Civil Wars, defended themselves against foreign invasions, and secured their immediate borders, but they have never been meddling or aggressor countries. Do you know how many Military Bases China or Korea have outside their territory? None. Zero. Any. NADA! They do not have a single Base. These are verifiable facts. Neither China nor Korea will invade the world; US does... that's DONE, as US does in the Middle East. Iran also does not have a SINGLE MILITARY BASE outside its national territory, and it is surrounded by 16 US Bases, and it is US who call the Iranians Terrorists. Well, very good. You already know. Now, compare the Greatness of the US with the Greatness of China. The "Greatness" of the US is built on the foundations of Piracy, Slavery, Genocide, the Assassination of opponents, Opium Traffic, or Cocaine in its case, and is under the foundations of the weakness of other sovereign nations. LOL….......

[@maniaouri2146]

Regarding bullying your neighbor, Please do not compare China with Western --- no relations at all

[@leoli6512]

Most interesting about what has been going on for weeks with partygate in London, that ex politician was telling us about rules of law, so eye opening what has been going on at the moment with the British government and its ruling elite. I would like to hear his opinion on the BoJo government.

[@vidtrax662]

As long as there are human beings there will always be Songs, Poetry, Art etc.....and War. Such is life on this planet. 🌿 P E A C E to ALL 🙏

[@dixonpinfold2582]

Who could fail to notice?

[@hectoOut]

@Gray Kin no thanks. I dont want to eat something which have more intelligents than the human

[@marywrong7041]

People in China is friend, but the CCP is foe.

[@pengwei6568]

No foe no friend, just competitors.

[@PapaShuffler]

Apparently the guy on the right forgot he is British...🤣😂

[@petergohtek5842]

Western Country show how hypothesis they are, in this discussion, as the moderator keep on, interupting the chinese lady, during her speeches

[@pandalee2450]

you are totally right, hypothesis is either conspiracy or fear comes from. Westerns are still and hesitate to accept the real fact and this new era.

[@wowyzaoy]

25k years since we've walked out of the jungle. yet; still the question: " should I treat my fellow human being as a friend or foe..." perhaps a global war every generation serves as the best answer. Intelligence squared? or banality quadrupled.

[@leky1325]

Watch interviews of Singapore's first Prime Minister Mr Lee Kuan Yew by the West regarding China to get some good insights.

[@shining-ana418]

Watch Miles Kwok's videos. He understands the Chinese Communists so much better.

[@erikliu041002]

@@shining-ana418 Come on, are you serious?

[@xiaoq8329]

@@shining-ana418 know you better now, haha

[@metalgear-]

Just listen to Hong Kong....,

[@garrison8020]

he earn all respect allover the world for his wisom

[@DanteWesker612]

As a man who respects all races on Earth, I see China as a friend. Same with all other Asian countries such as Thailand and Japan

[@johnyan836]

China is, currently, under the influence of Marxism and Leninism. The leaders of China want to put the entire human race in the ideology they regard as superior to the western democracy. They have publically say the goal of "common human destiny". When I dig in the concept that the entire world population can only listen and obey to ONE leader, it terrifies me.

[@DanteWesker612]

@@johnyan836 Nevertheless, I still prefer to respect other races and backgrounds besides my own in America. And nobody is gonna make me change my mind, not even these filthy Marxists that you speak of

[@johnyan836]

@@DanteWesker612 China is an asset for all humankind, but CCP is too dangerous. No one is sure what will they do next.

[@johnyan836]

@@DanteWesker612 It's nothing to do with this respect the other human race. It's about one human group wants to put all human beings in the one party rule and one man's rule.

[@DanteWesker612]

@@johnyan836 それは重要ではありません。マルクス主義は世界から廃止されなければならず、常に他者よりも優れていることを証明しようとするのではなく、全員が一体となって取り組むべきです。

[@johntomlins7696]

Watching this in 2021. Rifkind was allowed to dominate the discussion. W hat does this tell you? Rifkind is history.

[@fankochong2677]

True

[@siamcharm7904]

he's as dumb as a texas congressman.

[@ameenallibhoy]

Not exact wording…. “What goes on inside China is their business”. And then “they have to give their own citizens the freedom like the west does”. Make up your mind dude.

[@manuelvazquez6399]

Susess got nothing to do with freedom, democracy, or Communism, but Socialism has Worked well in Europe Asia and Africa.

[@poseidon61]

Democracy or not. The Chinese should decide themselves. Democracy is not democratic if being forced upon.

[@maniaouri2146]

In your country you do not even have the freedom of life without Fear ---- stop pointing your finder to China ---- China is offering this to all citizens Let me explain As it is already solidly proven, for China human rights and democracy means freedom from fear without poverty but with well-being, prosperity, and progress for all its citizens as opposed to the elite 1% and their Giga-Corporations in pseudo-democracies. Freedom from fear means that your family members especially children are able to walk the streets anytime and anywhere WITHOUT FEAR of shooters, knife attackers, acid-throwers, thieves, rapists, perverts, pedophiles, and racists. China is not a communist country, it’s is a socialistic country with Chinese characteristics including the best elements of a FREE ECONOMY which are good for the people and not the Elite 1% only and Giga-Corporations as in the West..

[@garydixon9742]

U cant say that thats not right there prisons are full of innocent people there government are evil there people are Beautiful gentle and kind like every country good and bad look at putin he talks nice also

[@maniaouri2146]

you mean like the non existing freedom Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are enjoying ? or the financial slavery of EU/US citizens, while the 1% elite's hobbies are rockets for traveling in space, wake up man -- go Facebook and join the Group named Friends of China to open your mind and let truth about China enter your brain -- I mean the truth the 1% elite controlling the EU/US don't want you to know