Tenderize by 'Velveting': a Skeptic's Guide

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

Hey guys, a few notes: 1. A few people over on the Discord asked for more information as to why we’re not crazy about the ‘passing through water’ technique. I get into it a bit more in the Substack post, and given that it’s a pretty popular technique, I think it’s fair to give you the TL;DR here. But before I do, I want to deeply, deeply emphasize what I said in the video: *if you like the technique, use it!* In the video, I wasn’t just saying that for the sake of saying it. There’s a lot of ways to get tasty end results in the kitchen - culinary disagreements are not ideological battles. 2. It really drills down to the fundamental purpose of passing through oil, I think - oil is a phenomenal medium for retaining heat, and the pass through effectively and evenly expels excess moisture from your meat. Water, meanwhile, quite obviously caps out at 100C. Given enough time, it *will* expel enough moisture, but by that time the protein - texturally - is not where you’d want it to be. That Kenji-Babish video isn’t the most charitable look at the technique (I’ve seen Kenji pull the same move on his channel to more delicious looking end results), but you can definitely see some of the potential pitfalls there. Because too much moisture was brought along for the ride, on Babish’s underpowered stove the stir fry hit what I call “the stir fry death loop” - there was too much water, so Kenji was desperately trying to boil it off… which only led to more water getting leeched out (if you ever find yourself in that situation, it’s better to just stop the stir fry where it is). Again, *please* don’t read this as a critique of Kenji - we’ve ALL been there, and he was in an unfamiliar kitchen. 3. So is there any benefit to passing through water? Yes, else talented recipe writers like Kenji, Shao Z, and Grace Young probably wouldn’t be proponents! What passing through water *can* do is set an egg white-based (or deeply-thick-with-cornstarch) coating without getting egg white in the final stir fry itself. Best practice, then, in my opinion would then be pre-stir-frying in a little extra oil to finish the job… but then we might as well just pass through oil at that point? 4. The other thing that gets a good bit of play online is a ‘baking soda soak’ - i.e. tossing the meat in a baking soda brine for ~30 minutes (or more) before cooking. This is actually a legit restaurant technique - we talk about it more in the linked Substack post - but is virtually unheard of in home kitchens (salt soaks are a *touch* more common among the Chinese equivalent of the ‘heath crowd’). Again, if you like it, do it. But there’s no real imperative. 5. In our ‘velveting guide’, we use a good hunk more cornstarch than we usually use in our ‘standard marinade’. This is largely because of the egg white. To arrive at the technique that I think a lot of people are looking for when they’re looking for ‘velveted meat’, you really want to go hard on the egg white and starch. 6. As an aside, if you’re doing beef (like we did in the video), you’ll also probably want to slap in an extra ~2 tbsp water to the marinade. A bit of oyster sauce is also nice with beef. 7. Got an extra egg yolk from ‘velveting’, and not sure what to do with it? Mix it in with your rice right when it’s hot from the rice cooker (or microwave, if re-heating). 8. A number of commenters report that Grace Young says that 'velveting' in Cantonese is 'waat' (滑). I don't have her books in front of me, so I don't know exactly how she uses the word! After thinking on it, I'm suitably convinced that waat (滑) could very well be the origin of the word "velveting" - it's usually translated as 'slippery', but 'velvety' is a rather elegant and inspired translation. The issue is that in the context of this specific scenario - adding starch and egg white to a meat to give it that texture - in Cantonese you would see it as an adjective, not as a noun to refer to a technique. E.g. if the meat is too tough (輆), you can add more starch to make it more 'waat' (滑). Or, Cantonese style scrambled eggs are called "滑蛋", i.e. slippery/velvety eggs. The word is also used as a verb, but it's not really used that way in this application in Cantonese. Some other commenters are reporting that it seems like the term may have come from earlier generations of Chinese Americans - e.g. Irene Kuo and Joyce Chen both reportedly use it. AFAIK, both were influenced by Northern Mandarin cuisines, so perhaps we could be wrong and there's some verbiage hidden there in the dusty annals! In Sichuan there's 滑肉 - 'slippery/velvety meat', which is similar in a number of ways, but goes *way* harder on the starch, is passed through water, and then - crucial difference - added to soups and stews (plus, these days at least, 滑肉 generally refers to the final product that is then added to soups - not the technique to produce it). But what were chefs saying in these circles in the 1940s? I think that'd be an interesting nut for a proper academic to try to crack! A fair critique of my script there is that "[this word] doesn't actually come from Chinese" is probably much too strong of a statement. It's very possible (likely, even) that it came from 滑. A more correct statement would be "A technique called [this word] doesn't have a direct modern Chinese analogue".

[@violetviolet888]

Great day for Chinese cuisine education for English speakers. A video with chef Lucas Sin dropped earlier today "Lucas Sin Shows You What Ingredients Build A Chinese Pantry | Why It Works | Food52" One of the best I've seen on the topic. Just wasn't long enough.

[@ixfalia]

Oh yeah! Egg in fresh out of pot rice is just such a real treat

[@nyatto]

Love how you sneaked in 玉子かけご飯 in there at the end. I haven't heard of that in the context of Chinese food before, only Japanese.

[@nocontabanconmiastucia939]

I like the passing through water technique in a fish dish called "shui zhu yu" which hopefully one day you'll cover in this channel.

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

​@@nyattotranslation, pls ? 😊

[@dennisjeong6723]

My heart dropped at the serious tone of "you may have noticed Steph is not around", but it was happy news in the end!! Congrats

[@robertpeyton9535]

Me too!

[@krissp8712]

For context see 8:13 - they're moving to China and Steph is monitoring their new building fitout in Yunnan province.

[@lowintellecttrash6737]

Honestly same

[@Allenw154]

Hope it works out! Seeing as Steph was testing for tofu dreg, maybe it won't be too bad.

[@abydosianchulac2]

"Beat that meat, into submission." -Chris, 2024 But seriously, these videos are fantastic and very helpful. You both have always been good about making the narration less 'travelogue at the start of an online recipe' and more 'reference at the start of a cookbook chapter,' so these video essays (do we still say vlogs?) are just extra, _extra_ context for your other work and for the cuisine in general. Please don't feel these are less-than publications than your recipe videos.

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

I defiinitly cheer to this up-lift, I'd say it's been on and off a little lonely for Chris, what with climat threats around the area, and Steph away, maybe with the puppy ? Hang in there, your synthesis is far better than "a little usefull", and gives me the occasion to mention that, prior to blogs, vlogs, whtvr, quite a few cookery books made it world-wide, among which the possibly overrated (?) Kenneth Lo, former tennis champ settled in the UK, and who gives a shrewed view on velveting, in his Chinese Food, which (of course) I could no longer spot 🙄! Due to traumatic experience with deep frying, using water is quite fine with me, all the more so since I find that the oil-seezing can cause the meat to shrink, maybe owing to wrong grain-angle, or wrong marinade (no water with the beef makes for chewy, springy result...). However, I'm very much looking forward to 101's and 2.0's,and hope Steph and you are looking forward to your coming Yunnan adventure ! ❤from Paris to all 3 & take care !

[@gabebennett818]

I recently did the “pass through oil” for the first time, after a long time of not wanting to deal with the oil and extra steps. And BOY OH BOY, for all the skeptics out there, it makes a WORLD of difference

[@violetviolet888]

Fat carries flavor.

[@BCThunderthud]

I think I heard about "passing through" long before I heard about velveting. It's great but I had a hard time doing it consistently without browning the meat. For chicken breast it's definitely worth the trouble.

[@charcoalgriller]

For enchiladas passing the tortillas through oil before assembly makes a world of difference.

[@AgentAlmost]

Afaik the name velveting was first coined in "The Key to Chinese Cooking" by Irene Kuo and it consisted of salt, mijiu or sherry (this was the 70s so substitutions were common), egg white, oil and cornstarch, with a pass through oil. It was used to protect and provide a velvety mouth feel for inherently soft ingredients prone to overcooking like lean pork fish chicken breast and shrimp. It was *not* intended as a tenderizing method to soften tough proteins. Marinating was a separate process that occured before the velveting step, and varied depending on the dish. She also had the "slippery coating" technique which was basically just eggless velveting. Everything else is the same except the egg white. I forget when/why it should be used instead of velveting though. Nowadays when when I think of a core velveting method I think of either alkaline or enzymatic tenderization with an egg white and/or cornstarch coating and a pass through oil but it wasn't originally about tenderizing. It was just about providing that soft protective coating.

[@billzigrang7005]

That book was published in 1977; I well remember Joyce Chen discussing velveting (with a cute sidebar into her problems saying "blender" ) on her PBS TV show in the late 1960's

[@brokenglassshimmerlikestar3407]

Yes I agree it's mostly to give that juicy texture. With the coating the meat is not dry. But it doesn't really make it tender unless tenderizers are added

[@oldhippy1947]

Chris, I like your chatty videos. They've all been full of interesting information. And, good luck with the move and renovating.

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

Cheers, thanks! We're mulling over Steph also doing a few (much more loosely edited) chatty videos over on the Patreon about what the whole renovation process is like in China - not sure if any of y'all would be interested in that or not.

[@matthewmaclellan_]

@@ChineseCookingDemystified yup! :)

[@821Farm]

Agreed. I like the chatty videos

[@Humblerbumble]

Can confirm I enjoy the chatty videos too! Be it you or Steph, you're both wonderfully informative and enjoyable to listen to ☺️

[@Chiffonkek]

@@ChineseCookingDemystified Definitely interested because of the cultural differences. What is typically done there, what kind of hurdles you face, do you have to argue with the building management about installing certain cookware/equipment, and so on. Like, the clip with the tiny hammer in the video where a bunch of dust just got knocked off the wall made me really curious and confused as to what's going on lmao.

[@DamnZodiak]

I love how a "small Chinese city" still has a population of 2.25 million people. That would comfortably be the second largest city in my country 😂

[@mixermaster10]

that be 2x the size of my entire country 💀

[@dunnowy123]

That's just shy of the most populous city in Canada lol

[@ThePelitin]

10 times the population of where I live, and here this is a big city 😂

[@DamnZodiak]

@@ThePelitin Fucking love your Pfp. Artorias stans unite!

[@DangerSquiggles]

Yuxi is a prefecture-level city, which is a large administrative division in China. The urban center which Steph and Chris are probably moving to is called Hongta District and has a population of about 500.000 people, the rest live in other cities and rural areas around Hongta District.

[@ian-duh]

CHRIS! I am so happy for y'all becoming homeowners. Thanks for this channel and all you do.

[@Beliserius1]

Chris, to me, a Chinese immigrant, velveting refers to egg white + cornstarch prep + passing through water or oil. This specifically because it gives meat a very slippery sensation, or "velvety". Baking soda to me is just tenderization and is mischaracterized as velveting. And all the rest is just marinade or even sauce making, So in my mind, there is no conflict here, velveting is just that specific combination.

[@LadyLynxes]

When I was first learning stir fry, I made sure to try multiple recipes from multiple sources, each using slightly different techniques. I did something similar when learning “curry”, I followed some Thai, Indian, and Japanese style recipes. I like this approach because it exposes me to lots of the foundational knowledge and techniques, and positively contributes to my confidence in the kitchen. Especially as my preferred cooking style has gravitated away from strictly following recipes, to a more free flowing ingredient based approach. I wanted to drop a thank you note because some of your videos helped me on my stir fry journey. I think for me, I was comfortable enough to simply consider the “velvet” technique as a messy umbrella term. I learned the value of adding certain ingredients to a marinade, and also learned the value of cooking meat in multiple stages. That all being said, wow this video would have been excellent to stumble on in the early stages of my stir fry journey. I’m grateful you made it, and it’s made me even more confident in my interpretations of the cuisine and concepts applied.

[@Dragonriderperson]

Honestly Chris, Steph, I love your chatty videos. While your recipes are great and useful, I keep coming back to them because you guys break down the WHY and HOW of cooking steps. A video like this, breaking marinating techniques and what each one does, is great.

[@jrk1666]

After a particularly big disillusionment with gastronomy I find myself cooking more and more Chinese inspired dishes, they're just so quick for how good they are

[@PaulMab9]

May I ask what your disillusionment was?

[@PhilLesh69]

I mean, you can start with celery, onion, carrot and chicken and make a Chinese dish, or a soup, or an Italian dish. Just serve over rice or noodle and adapt the seasonings according that what you feel like eating that night. Ginger, garlic and sesame, or parmesan cheese, cream and butter, with oregano and basil, or thyme and rosemary, or whatever.

[@ros8986]

I will now speak for everyone - WE are very grateful for your great videos - and for those of us who know nothing - any info is great.

[@barnaclebob123]

Congrats on the new place. Also I love the unhinged rant videos. I learn so much. Like the gutter oil was awesome.

[@cordellvos3703]

I love this style of video, and I absolutely adore the unhinged rant here. The velveting thing has always perplexed me for exactly the reason you identified: if it’s a single technique, why is it always different?

[@JoeAuerbach]

These ranty videos don't happen too often (and I'm sure that's by choice and I support it 100%) but I DO love these rants.

[@finchhawthorne1302]

I think part of why recipe writers sometimes recommend passing through water is that enough oil to submerge something is seen as unhealthy or dangerous to cook with in a lot of northern US home kitchens (though it’s very common in the southern US). So not a technique that’s good but because it’s better than nothing.

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

I guess I just fail to see why it's necessarily superior to pre-stir-frying, or (even better) pre-stir-frying in a little extra oil. But again, if people like it, there's nothing wrong with it!

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

​@@ChineseCookingDemystifiedMy guess is that the congealing of the egg-white +starch coating allows both sealing juices in, as well as combining the stir-fry sauce to the coating, quite the same way as passing through oil does, just less "greasy", I'd say ?! Maybe it even ends up "standing for" - and dispensing from-the final use of a starch slurry ?

[@PhilLesh69]

The unhealthy thing about deep frying isn't the quantity of oil. The thing that makes deep frying unhealthy is using cheap industrial seed oils and using it over and over again. If you can afford to fill a pan or a deep fryer with good, *fresh* EVOO every time you cook and then discard it after each use there really wouldn't be too much health concern. In fact, there's health benefits from cooking in olive oil as long as you never overheat it or allow it to go rancid.

[@IarukaSkYouk]

I really like how detailed and speculative you are and how you examine your thought process. Your channel is among the best

[@robertpeyton9535]

Excellent video as always. It's so difficult to find patient, nuanced discussion of anything these days and you hit the nail on the head just about every time.

[@benjwilliams5104]

Homeownership is so exciting! Pass along our excitement and congratulations to Steph, and I wish you both a low-stress moving process!

[@MickeyD2012]

You can't own a home in China, LOL

[@delwynjones6408]

If. I remember correctly the term velveting comes from Irene Kuo's 'key to chinese cooking' and to be fair to her she does mention other tenderizing techniques such as "slippery coating". So its just one of many techniques for stir frying

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

Will check out her original definition, thanks!

[@billzigrang7005]

@@ChineseCookingDemystified That book was published in 1977; I well remember Joyce Chen discussing velveting (with a cute sidebar into her problems saying "blender" ) on her PBS TV show in 1966/7 - Chris, you should try to find a video (if one is available - it might have been kinescoped -) It's an intimate look at JC trying to teach Chinese cooking in English.It's not on the WGBH archive page, but that doesn't mean they don't have it.

[@neilawad2741]

never tire of this channel, the content and the wealth of learnings that I continue to gain on Chinese regional cuisine and cooking. Thank you🙏🏼

[@frankunderbush]

Congrats on the new home, guys! Totally up for more of this almost podcast like content. Your videos are always so educative regardless of the format.

[@ampersand64]

don't worry chris, we love you both equally! I'm very interested in any video rants, and y'all have a totally different perspective from me.

[@mannyv2793]

These latest videos are great too! No worries at all about the format we're all not going anywhere. And congratulations on the flat!

[@DeRien8]

Glad to hear it's more complicated than I've seen. I used to think velveting just referred to adding baking soda to a "dry" marinade

[@Tom-en9tc]

Thank you for the great informational video and congratulations on the new house! 🎉 I'm excited to see what this new environment will do with your cooking

[@martinyang5459]

I'm so excited for videos from Yunnan! They have the best tea and mushrooms in the world.

[@WispNoises]

Very good and informative video, and I especially highly appreciate the clarity of your written descriptions and your follow-up notes! The unhinged rant was informative in its own right and all in good fun. Thank you for presenting not only all of the different techniques that can comprise "velveting" but also for its focus on the variety and combinations of different techniques. Good luck with the move and thank you for the video!

[@j82themo]

Good luck with the move and renovation! Thank you for all your helpful videos! My family appreciates the fact that you're helping me extend my cooking repertoire!

[@theelectricant98]

Absolutely love these videos featuring you talking more candidly

[@Phosphophyllite524]

This is really useful context that I was confused on. Every time I saw the term velveting mentioned I was always thinking in the back of my head "Isn't this mostly a marinade with extra mostly optional steps?" while thinking I was missing something important I hadn't been clued in on yet. This explains a lot of my confusion. Keep up the good work and good luck on the move!

[@MikiLyn]

Congrats! I really like the "chatty" style videos, they've got a good vibe to them and they're just as interesting & helpful as your usual video format.

[@Lamefoureyes]

I was literally searching for a video on velveting as a technique instead of a recipe, this was perfect timing.

[@slartbarg]

I appreciate the timely (to me) nature of this video, was just recently discussing 'velveting' as a technique this really clarifies a lot, thanks

[@douggodsoe]

I love your voice! The intonations and inflections. The horizontal and the vertical! Never been able to put a face to the owner until now. Thanks for sharing!

[@robinstacpoole2667]

Love your basic vids. More please, really really useful for the madding hords of less skilled fans

[@delyar]

Chris is an expert at delivering this type of info, bravo

[@meowcula]

Honestly you both put so much effort into producing these videos, regardless of format, you can't really go wrong. Excited for your new adventure in moving back to China! I hope the reno and logistics go well!

[@mydogisbailey]

2:35 “beat that meat into submission” 💀💀💀um Chris

[@fordhouse8b]

This is why teenage boys make the most tender stir-fry.

[@TheMrBrosef]

Good luck to you Chris and Steph! I hope your new place fits you both wonderfully!

[@markust8904]

I love the chat about this and other things, the how to's the pickles, the gutter oil episode, this one about velveting which i knew about but found it a bit labor intensive. Your voice i find is very pleasant to listen to. The fact that you are moving to a new place sparks interest to me and look forward to it. Thanks. Been a subscriber for a while now.

[@roscoeswraps2510]

I so greatly appreciate these videos. It's so hard to explain and condense all this information. You guys do such a good job of it.

[@michaelngo7738]

One thing which changed my tenderizing technique that many videos or blogs don't talk about is to rinse and strain the meat after tenderizing with baking soda, I always struggled with the strange smell/taste of baking soda. Kenji suggested rinsing in colander and even being rough with it to further tenderize, works wonders. An extra step cuz after tenderizing then rising only then can younadd your salt, soy etc.

[@petevenarie9285]

Always very useful information! Good luck with the move ❤

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

Thanks!

[@ogr8bearded175]

I'm sure I didn't invent this but not seen anyone talk about slicing meat for stirfry in this manner. I like to use Sirloin Tip steaks (sometimes I cut a ST roast into them.) It is a low cost beef, lean and not full of ligaments. What I do is butterfly my slices of the steak. So I make a 1/10th in (about 3mm) slice about 3/4 of th3 way through and then move over another 3 mm from that cut and slice through completely. Then I spread the meat and carefully slice until it is flat with no 'ridge' on the underside. So if you are using an inch thick sirloin tip steak you end up with around a 2 inch by 4 inch rectangle of meat to stir fry. This is great if only cooking for one or two people and not wanting to purchase a large amount of meat to slice.

[@elpukito]

Glad to hear everything's good and exciting things are happening. I did wonder about Steph's absence, but I kinda like this style of video, too. This channel is basically my main source for what real Chinese food is like, as there's not a lot of that where I live. Keep it up!

[@joycewilson3443]

I love all the information you give us. Thank you for taking the time to much ❤. Congrats on the new apartment. Can’t wait to see the new place

[@AntoniusTyas]

Heeeey congrats on the new upcoming home, man. Also, got to say your microphone set up is nice, it's clear and crisp. Maybe I'm going to need that for my voiceover stuffs.

[@btdtgg]

I've been velvetting my meats with egg white for a long time. I only use baking soda with beef. I find all the steps are important for that perfect texture especially passing through oil. I often make very large batches to last for 2-3 days and the oil pass through makes it a breeze as I can finish much quicker.

[@NikoA101]

Hey Chris, as always many thanks for the loads of information and even more so for the new aspects of chinese cooking I am usually not aware of. I think there is only a small part, we're I don't fully agree with. In my understanding "velveting" sums up two separate lines. 1. adding a soft outer layer (Like egg white, starch ..) and 2. softening/ disintegrating the meat (papain, pass through oil and so on). I think the methods can be seperated quite well between those, although often used in the same recipe. One exception is baking soda. I don't think that the basic properties of baking soda explain the properties. In my understanding the ortho phosphates do what's usually also done in western butchery. Especially in combination with heavy mixing, phosphates bind the additional water and soften the meat, but also add a soft outer layer of protein water mixture to velvet in both senses I claim to be a thing😅

[@Mandavee]

Congrats on your new home! I hope reno goes well and you get a fabulous kitchen from it all!

[@vlgr8ter]

Congratulations on purchasing your home - amazing milestone for both of you! What are the chances you guys will be releasing more Thai Chinese content whilst you're still in Thailand? As much as I love your 'pure' Chinese recipe videos, I've found your recent phase of Thai Chinese videos to be some of your best work! It's refreshing, insightful, thought-provoking and I feel like there's no one else out there covering/exploring this kind of content! Keep up the great work!

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

The cross border stuff is a hefty bit of research, but we can also do that on the Yunnan side of the border too :) We've got a couple on the docket - we also have some friends here in Bangkok, so we'll be bouncing over here a couple times a year. Before we leave though we're planning on having a slight mini-series on just... some Thai dishes we enjoy. Probably about four - we'll be tossing a little Thai flag on the thumbnail so that people know it's not a Chinese dish per se

[@sbaumgartner9848]

You do a great job of explaining the details of Chinese cooking.

[@susangarland6869]

My favorite tenderizing technique is to slice the meat across the grain and, for every one pound, sprinkle on 1 tsp of soda and enough water to help coat the meat evenly. Let it sit for one hour, rinse the meat several times, and add some vinegar to the final rinse to totally neutralize any residual soda. Then marinate the meat for 30 minutes before cooking. This approach allows for the use of way more soda than anyone could/should eat, which results in super tender meat without any traces of soda flavor.

[@leponaisu1065]

I can't really put a finger on it but this conversation on velveting reminds me a lot of how Indians feel about the word curry in English.

[@patrickmaun9406]

You can use a pinch of baking soda added to onions to caramelize them quickly. They’ll break down and brown nicely in about a quarter of the time.

[@MaryStiles0120]

I like your chat videos. I hope you continue doing them!

[@winterdragon007]

I like videos like this. I greatly enjoy learning the specifics about technical stuff so I can get a deeper understanding and can thus apply it better.

[@-beee-]

Congratulations! And thank you for sharing your wisdom and research!

[@Maryxus]

I used the "velveting" marinading mix of cooking wine/acid, salt and cornstarch on a mole flank steak that I was planning to shallow fry. It really made a noticeable difference; no stringiness in the meat at all, and I feel like it helped keep the cocoa and spices left on the meat from burning in the oil. The techniques I've learned in this channel have made me a significantly better cook, even though I still haven't made any of the more complicated recipes y'all have posted.

[@wincentpukar2726]

Hm, I use baking soda for most of my meats simply for the sake of better browning, while not necessary to reproduce authentic Chinese recipe I think this is a good thing to do regardless of the goal, similarly to salting the meat ahead of time to let it dry out. Tenderising effect is then due to the ability to brown the meat before it leaks the water, and not any chemical change (which might or might not occur, I don't know the exact chemistry of it).

[@zabarai5282]

Good luck with your future move! I love all your videos and always learn something new, the chatty ones are just as good as the rest! ❤❤❤

[@DavidJYuan]

Great video. I'd suggest for more of these. Learned a lot!

[@bbd9719]

Dude I love these types of videos. Food topics that are not just recipes can be very interesting and refreshing. This topic of velveting, I think, is a little misunderstood concept in America and you hit it on the nose. Good luck on your upcoming move!

[@alpaktuna]

Congratulations on your home! Yunnan province has always been a travel destination for myself - really looking forward to seeing videos that highlight the cuisine there :) Thanks for the videos as always.

[@garyheisepainting5426]

This was a really worthwhile video and I appreciate the comments/rant. You made an excellent point and I will no longer be using the term velveting. Also, good luck with the move.

[@rogerzhang2335]

As a Chinese who lives aboard, I personally think these "chatty" videos serve even more to "demystify" Chinese cooking, so would abs love to see these format from time to time even after you back in China!

[@Noisy_Cricket]

Velveting refers to the end resulting texture I feel, rather than any particular specific prep idea. It's like "marinade" or "brine," which can refer to alot of things too.

[@LiaCooper]

congratz to you guys! love these chatty videos and info. hope everything goes well with the renos!

[@norcalovenworks]

I cook Chinese food several times a week. My “velveting” is condensed to seasoning with salt, sugar, and sometimes wine, then I add either egg, egg white, or water, and then I add some potato starch as my son has a corn allergy. I usually just give my meat an initial stir fry before the other ingredients, instead of passing through oil, just to conserve oil. I usually don’t add soy sauce or fish sauce to my marinades, as I do that later. I do not add alkaline to my marinades to tenderize meat because my wife objects to the flavor, and truthfully, we usually buy high choice or prime meat which doesn’t need tenderizing. Still, I like my velveting because the mouthfeel of the dish is improved. Additionally, I have no problem with your ‘chatty” videos, they are informative.

[@AlejanderLong]

yes,potato is the best.

[@chrysanthemum8233]

I skip a lot of those steps but always marinate the protein, with or without the baking soda. I eat pescatarian/vegetarian a lot, and tofu definitely benefits from soaking up as much flavor as possible & I find that it helps fish fall apart less. Good luck with the move! It's nice to have time and choices.

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

I do love these informative chatty videos. Good luck with the move and reno!

[@jamestjomsland948]

Thank You. Education begins with generalizations for ease of memory. With knowledge come the ability to distinguish nuance. Well Done !! jimmy

[@TheAntymoni]

Thank you for this! I love the side notes to follow along review after.

[@agymayachelonia8381]

From what i was taught in schooll, Papain is from papaya and it tenderises meat because it has enzymes that breaks down proteins.

[@z2ei]

I always love the "informational" videos as much as I do the cooking ones. Also, your chapter title snark.

[@toshiyukisuzuki7610]

News Bulletin: Sir Kenneth Branagh Talks About Velveting ( Not the Ones Used for Royal Robes ) So happy to see more of Chris on the CCD videos. Of course, I also love Steph. This channel is like the America's Test Kitchen on Chinese cooking. Chris can effectively rival Dan Souza of What's Eating Dan. Thank you always for your clear, not TMI, well-made videos. I always feel the heart behind each one.❤️ Chris' "When you really gotta beat that meat into submission...." better than any line from Fifty Shades of Gray, hands down. Deserving of a James Beard. Good ventures, tons of inspiration, marriage joys as you settle in Yuxi!

[@ssatva]

Congrats on the new home! So look forward to what you make of it! I wonder if the one advantage of having a term like velveting is to initiate the conversation; treating the term as a class of thing that we can then specify? "To velvet the X for this dish, we..." Great vid in general!

[@CookieMonster2901]

"Subtle taste" in regards to using baking soda for velveting is an understatement. I just use a tiny bit of it and suddenly everything tastes like soap. And I mean a literal tiny bit, less than 1/8 of a teaspoon.

[@therandomheretek5403]

You're probably just very sensitive to it if 1/8 tsp tastes like soap - which is not an uncommon condition. I'm in a similar boat myself - even a 1/4 tsp of the supposedly more neutral calcium Carbonate in my ramen makes them essentially inedible- so I feel you.

[@NickCombs]

Once I add an acid later in the cooking process, I can't tell there was ever any baking soda used, aside from the texture.

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

​@@NickCombsGREAT TIP !! "neutralizing" works both ways, after all 😊! Another tip is substituting the couple of tbs of water (for meat...) with fizzy carbonated water (but NOT merely fizzed up, actual mineral alkaline water...), for the standard 15 mn steeping. At any rate, diluting the baking soda in the water meant for the marinade will always distribute it better through the dish, than when stirred in on its own, thus preventing the random foul-tasting mouthfull 😅! ❤from Paris

[@Ahalgana]

If you've never tried papain it has no taste I've ever been able to discern, and you can use roughly the same amount for this type of application.

[@anotherfreakingaccount]

what does soap taste like? I hear people say that, but I have no conception of what that would be. It seems like soap is many many many different things, and people might have completely different frames of reference for what it tastes like. I kinda suspect thats why some people say cilantro tastes like soap, the flavor of the soap is different

[@helpimabug]

I'm a home cook who once lived and China and has been watching your videos from the beginning. Velveting (or 'meat softening' or whatever we want to call it) is awesome and should be used more often, especially in non-Chinese cuisines. But I agree, internet commentor types have made this technique far more complicated than it needs to be. For 99% of home cooks, the following is just fine: a) a little salt a) a light dusting of baking soda b) a slightly heavier dusting of corn starch This all you need to get Chinese restaurant-quality texture for meats.

[@optionout]

And some oil. Done.

[@porcorosso4330]

Yes, but that is also kind of considered low quality food/cooking style (or cheating) in some home settings... My mom is always proud that she does not add "poweder" to her cooking (baking soda corn starch). Yet, I have yet to find a better way in tenderring meat... (She is not a great cook...) But then again, I guess the meat also don't need to be tenderize (as much) if it is quality (and fresh?) meat to start out with..

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

​@@porcorosso4330All the more so since meat quality has drastically improved, from the times where "hints" applied to lower, cheaper cuts, or older animals, or goat and mutton, ot water-buffalo had to actually be "doctored" (long-stewed, cured, slow-roasted, etc) for palatable results 😊... They actually were more often used to flavor a pot of stewed turnips, or carrots or potatoes, together with rice and preserved egg or salt fish, or tofu, as the staple protein ! Times have changed ! Looking up the memories from the Cooking with Lau's family gives a lot of details about making-do in former dire times. And so do the Italians from Pasta Grammar, for the roots of Cucina Povera, where the chicken was only killed if someone was sick enough they couldn't help but use the precious restaurative value of the fowl, rather than spare it for the eggs' sake 😢! Otherwise, chestnuts, polenta and other grain, as well as dairy products, and the holiday piece of cured pork, plus all the squashes and potatoes they harvested, were the "normal" fare...

[@hotdiggity6846]

I have seen people say you need to do the baking soda separately and wash it it off. Are they correct?

[@optionout]

@hotdiggity6846 Depends on amount and method. I put baking powder in water, then soak beef in it for 15-20 mins. If you do that you should rinse.

[@sceptre1067]

interesting. probably due to Dunlop’s early books always thought overall its a marinade step (w/ varying things) but assumed “velveting” was specifically use of the alkali . so thanks, great explanation!

[@cyanyeti1556]

I love these style of videos. I hadnt heard about passing through oil or water before, always just used a bit more oil or straight in Excited to hear you moving to Yunnan, I love puer and have been wanting to know more about the food

[@angelad.8944]

Well, I like all the videos you guys make. Don't worry too much about switching up the style. Gotta keep us on out toes, keep things spicy. 😅

[@julzamidala2865]

Congrats on your new apartment! Hope the build-out goes well-

[@MySwirlingFire]

I love your rants. I learn so much

[@bigadz87]

These videos are awesome mate! Keep them coming!

[@TricksterModeEngaged]

Personally I usually use the baking soda method at home. Even if you have the cheapest, toughest cuts of meat it'll make it restaurant-level tender. After a bit of experimentation, I've found the trick to avoiding the soapy bitter taste is the rinse the meat well after (I rinse, then soak it in cold water briefly before draining and rinsing lightly again) AND also make sure that there's a bit of acid in the sauce (not a ton, just enough to neutralize anything left over)

[@PsychoEkan]

Tiny rant, but using the bechamel as an example really highlighted the phenomena that is happening.. Because when making mac and cheese your making a Mornay and not a bechamel, but most homecooks have no idea what a mornay is (its a bechamel with cheese), so by saying bechamel with *insert american cheeseproduct here* then more people understand and can follow along. So using the word velveting might be a bit crude when refering to "chinese stirfry meat preperation" where you cut, marinate and often precook the meat. I still find that it gets across that there's a use of certain techniques required to prepare the meat, and for a casual homecook western audience that will serve them well (learn to walk before you run). Just like saying a bechamel with cheese in it instead of saying mornay sauce works to get the point across.. You can then afterwards go on to further learn the steps and techniques that make it up, like marinating your meat and what ingredients do what and when to use or not to use them. Like making a roux, seeing and understanding what other dishes use a roux. Sometimes a blond roux, sometimes a darker roux and sometimes even just a Beurre Manié where you don't even cook it first.. we all start learning somewhere and just like a lot of things you learn in school it's a simplified and often horrible misrepresenting the subject even (like the Bohr model, for all you chemist out there). You make the subject simpler so the most basic information can get through and then you build on top of that. Which is honestly why i like that this video is here to explain to all people who have been "initiated" that the subject is actually quite nuanced than they might have thought. Great Video guys :)

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

>Because when making mac and cheese your making a Mornay and not a bechamel I actually don't know a lot about Mornay sauce! I always associate Mornay as using some sort of combination of Gruyère and/or Parm? Sometimes an extra egg yolk in the mix? I might have an overly restrictive definition, so definitely feel free to educate me :) Re French cuisine it's always been really difficult for me to separate the BS from the real info online

[@meizhou9279]

Is there a standard cheese used in Mornay? Saying Béchamel with cheddar tells us exactly what is in the sauce. If he said Mornay people may not know the sauce or wonder what type of cheese he used.

[@BaldRavenHaired]

So in short , marinate your meats for tenderness and adjust your marinate based on the cooking style . A direct sub for papain would it's orginal fruit , raw papaya! Added blended raw papaya to beef braises or stews to give the tenderness along with some acidity and sweetness. It would also act as a micro thickening agent which would give a smoother mouth feel !

[@marie-suzankalogeropoulos9249]

Just like the coreans use Asian pear, or kiwi fruit, for their tenderizing enzymes, in BBQed beef-ribs (Bulgogi) ! In some flavor-profiles, even pineapple juice could come in handy, bromelaïne also is a proteolytic enzyme, and I 'M sure I' ve heard about some random philippino recipe, that used either that, or lime soda-drink 😅! Or... Coca-Cola 😜... ❤ from Paris

[@NamakuraHigan]

I know a LARGE majority of the tea I order is from kunming, yunnan... but I think that's just the local company's storage warehouse for fermentation and bulk storage, but the general area is supposedly great for tea from what I hear nonetheless. would recommend looking into all the local/nearby teas and plantations at some point, there's so many great teas out there.

[@Alan-gj5xe]

I would really appreciate more content for Chinese Learners with direct or indirect culinary context

[@ThePelitin]

Good luck on the move. Now that you'll be moving to Yunnan, I'd love at some point to see some videos relating to wild mushrooms. In case that interests you of course. It's very difficult to find information especially on the culinary application of different wild mushrooms in China, even with the help of my girlfriend.

[@roboslug7582]

In a lot of commercial (and especially industrial) kitchens in the US, as well as on the competition BBQ circuit and a few other pro-level groups, they use phosphate salts instead of sodium carbonate/bicarbonate, because of phosphate's ability to bind directly to proteins while also holding water and fat, and also raising the pH of the meat, which reduces the denaturation due to heat. I use a mix called Amesphos (made by Ames Chemical Co.), at about .25% and it does wonders for my stir fried and deep fried meats. In combination with a variety of salts (table salt, MSG, and inosinate/guanylate) and sugar (I use dextrose or allulose), it keeps the meat extremely juicy. And if I need extra tenderness, papain or bromelain treatment for about 15-20 minutes before cooking works great on thin slices of meat.

[@morning4616]

i love it a lot of times cooking channels of any quality just explain stuff but sometimes i need this detailed video explaining the hand holding. What are my options, does this matter does that matter. Because you get so caught up in whats velvetting that you miss its a broad generalization for the idea of it.

[@brookechang4942]

Thanks for the detailed description, and congratulations on your upcoming move and new home! Any chance of getting a Dianxi Xiaoge collab someday? 👀

[@ChineseCookingDemystified]

In our dreams maybe, haha. Dianxi is like a rockstar

[@suny217]

Congrats on moving to Yun Nan!! I am indeed expecting the cross bridge rice line noodle video asap! full history and recipes!!!!

[@druidOcelot]

Yunnan is an absolutely gorgeous part of the country, i hope y'all enjoy it there!!

[@BUNNYSVINTAGE]

Good luck with your new place!

[@darraghchapman]

You must be so excited about the move! I'm really looking forward to Yunnan content from you when it finally happens. Re: the ambiguity and/or superfluity of the term velveting, your step 1 goes without saying, and as you said, step 3 is optional or can be done various ways. That just leaves step 2, which is a fairly concise, useful concept with enough wiggle -room to be adaptable, but enough specificity to be meaningful. Just my impression. What do you think?