Chisel And Plane ; Voicing A Top In My Shop

[@springcreekfarmer]

I just want to say I appreciate your efforts in making these videos. I'm a functional woodworker myself and a 40+ year guitarist to boot. I have too many irons in the fire to get into making guitars myself, but I understand wood and music both to some extent. So your videos hit all the marks for me. Thanks from Ontario.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

You're very welcome. I sincerely appreciate your comment.

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

Thank you so much for all the work you put into this video. I am not a builder, just an old guitar player.

[@tedrowland7800]

Thank you for the time, effort, and myriad of questions that I've asked and you answered since joining your channel. I always look forward to what you post.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

I'm glad that I have been helpful in some way. I like to share and help others. Mom & Dad made sure of that. The rest is the teacher in me.

[@johnford7847]

Thanks for all the detail and information. I think I'm starting to understand what to look doing my first build. Thank you for sharing

[@CMRWoodworks]

Great info! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@thepragmaticluthier]

My pleasure!

[@davidjennings9253]

Excellent video once more !!

[@thepragmaticluthier]

Thanks again! Your comment is very encouraging.

[@jim34morrison]

Thank you for all of this information!

[@thepragmaticluthier]

It's the old shop teacher in me. I just never know when to quit :)

[@jim34morrison]

@ please keep going. I’ve chosen to dedicate my time to this trade and you have a wealth of technique and knowledge I need to absorb. I’ll now keep my mouth shut and ears open! Lol

[@fenderlead1]

That was great! Thanks!

[@thepragmaticluthier]

That's very good to know. I'm glad you derived benefit from the video.

[@stevecarver4906]

Excellent video!

[@monday6524]

A very educational video - thank you!

[@ronbieganski7943]

I have enjoyed your approach and your insights into guitar building. I have been building for about 10 years (Specimen Products in Chicago) and I am just now getting an intuitive feel as I build. I have been reading a book called "Contemporary Acoustic Guitar Design and Build", by Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet. They write about scientific analysis usually in guitar building. (Reading their work takes me back to my college physics classes in 1980). What I like is they mirror the practice experimentation that you have done over the years. The iterative process you have done in building guitars over the years is supported by their scientific analyses! I love it when that happens in life. Like when the Buddhists figured out many things about the brain, that scientists are just showing to be true. That was harder to write than I thought it would be. Keep up the good work, someday I would love to have a beer and talk around a campfire...or assist you in a workshop...or both.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

Thanks very much for your comment. I value the validation, especially because I constantly question what I'm doing and what I know. It's very difficult to meld a scientific approach with an intuitive background and my attempts to incorporate more of the science leave me with the persistent question; how do I turn the results from testing and analysis into the specifications of an instrument and movements into shop. I agree! We should have a beer and talk at length.

[@maplebones]

@@thepragmaticluthier Enjoy your beers and talk. Hopefully when you've applied the scientific method and built the perfect guitar, you can go on to find the equally elusive perfect dog or perfect wife . Good luck, gentlemen.

[@jonahguitarguy]

The plan I'm using to build my two 000 12 fret guitars was was drawn by Don McCroskey for stewmac. It's a Martin guitar copy. It shows the thinnest part of the scallops at 5/16". Which seems pretty thin to me. I carved one top so far and it sounds good to me and seems to have the right amount of flex. I haven't check it against a tone generator like you showed in a previous video but I will with the next on I carve.

[@tomehCanada]

Thank You

[@thepragmaticluthier]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching my videos.

[@newffee]

Great video Kevin! Some really good tips on bracing. So if you wanted a little more lower end but not muddy, how would you brace for a jumbo torrified Adirondack top with Sapele back and sides? Hertz wise?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

This video, if you haven't seen it, may be of help. If you are trying to lower the resonant frequency of the top, open the X brace, drop the height of the braces ( very slightly), Move the tone bars further away from the bridge patch, angle the tone bars more toward parallel to the center line of the top, reduce the size of the sound hole. That you are using Adirondack Spruce and Spell is not particularly pertinent. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIWupp6Of6ubnas

[@newffee]

@@thepragmaticluthier Thank you Kevin. I will check it out. Do you mean Perpendicular to the center line? Wouldn't more parallel tighten up the top?

[@Hungry_Hunter]

Brillant

[@markgrimm3564]

can ya share with us where ya go the mini plane with a handle on it

[@thepragmaticluthier]

The plane is a Veritas brand palm plane, available at Lee Valley Tools.

[@seanstark3422]

When voicing a guitar top, what frequency range are you trying to achieve? Secondly, what are the primary methods for achieving a higher frequency? Simply reducing the bracing?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

I'm not after a frequency range. Knowing the frequency of a top when I tap it is just a way of having a point of reference to compare with future tops and backs. When i voice a top or back, I'm pretty much willing to accept whatever frequency that is emitted, but I'm specifically after overtones and sustain for as log as I can get it.

[@AStarkApproach]

@@thepragmaticluthier Thank you for responding. This my first build and I haven't been able to get a good idea of what I'm searching for in sound or voicing. I do seem to have good sustain and I can feel the vibration from a tap for a long time. I'm not using conventional woods at all since it was more about the process of building. I tend to take the approach of building with as few tools and gadgets as possible to really see what I ACTUALLY need. I appreciate your approach-though your shop is equipped like crazy compared to mine. ANy thoughts on doing building a guitar rim bender side thingy...? That has been the thorn in my side lately. The form seems straight forward but the spreaders I'm not sure how to accomplish...

[@johnpeters211]

@@thepragmaticluthier It sounds like you use the Rob O'Brien/Ken Everett method of voicing, is that correct? I've stated using that myself. Any chance you would want to host a workshop on this? I'm only a few hrs away from you as it turns out.

[@Drew-B365]

Is there any way to contact you directly to get a guitar made?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

www.ladueguitars.com

[@philipholman4888]

I'm building my first guitar, an OM kit from stewmac. As the X bracing is already contoured there are large gaps in the cross-halving joint. I notice you have a reinforcing cap of a different material across the joint. I can see this will get back some of the lost stiffness. What wood is that? Great videos by the way. Thanks from San Marcos, CA.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

The wood you choose for the X-brace reinforcement is not very important. It can be the same specie as the brace wood if you prefer. The variations that you see in my video are aesthetic choices, usually made form the same wood as the back and rims. It just creates an interesting view inside the guitar and I find that my clients love it. Great good luck with your guitar:)

[@christopherbubny8813]

Here---hear.....!

[@chrisosseweijer2798]

👍❤👍

[@79o123o]

Why are your tone bars opposite of most Martin style guitars?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

The guitar you're siding i this video is left handed.

[@dalgguitars]

Show us your sharpening thing for your drill press! (stropping)

[@thepragmaticluthier]

You can expect that short video by tonight.

[@short6691]

Do you play picking with your left hand?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

Yes, for 60 years now.

[@short6691]

I watch many luthiery videos and always inspect the hands of the maker. A player makes better guitars than a skilled craftsman with no performance experience…

[@Expedient_Mensch]

19/32nds of an inch... 15mm, every day in every way, I appreciate the metric system more and more....

[@jameshuntley428]

Great video. What was the outcome of using one lower finger brace (4:40)? Did you find that the single brace provided sufficient torque/support?

[@thepragmaticluthier]

I like to shape the finger braces as the last step in voicing a top.My experience has been that as those braces carved, I get a little more sustain. That's my experience and theory, not a demonstrably objective fact. I eliminated one finger brace so as to preserve a little flexibility (looseness) in that region of the top as as way (hopefully) to put a little flavor (harmonics) in the bass.

[@jameshuntley428]

@@thepragmaticluthier Thank you and thanks for the great content!

[@EveyoneCallsMeTheDude]

So say you’re assumption is wrong about not needing that finger brace how long down the road do you think it would take before you found out it wasn’t a good idea or that it was? -Asking a someone who watches you’re videos, not a Lutheir of any kind

[@thepragmaticluthier]

Thanks for your question. It's a good one. If my decision regarding the single finger brace is wrong, I expect the it will show up within a few weeks (3 to 6) as excessive bulging, but I doubt that it will end in breakage. Martin went to using a single patch, about 1/16" X 3/8" in a similar position on several of their 16 series, I assume just to control the possibility of checking. I will conclude that is was beneficial if I hear some increase in low frequency and observe no distortion beyond normal and of course, no breakage. I expect a full year will pass before I can draw any solid conclusion about physical results.

[@mandolinman2006]

You sound like you're a fan of parabolic bracing.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

If you mean a parabolic shape when viewing a cross section of the brace, not always.

[@eyeofamon]

10:05 - You give a specific frequency. How do you identify that? Even as talented as you are, I'd still guess you have to rely on some technology to get that.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

I compare the tap tone o the top to a tone generator. Whatever talent I may possess, it would be useless without the application of information , education, mathematics and science. Technology means," the practical application of knowledge". Even the "science deniers rely on it.

[@rodparker4514]

Tap tones are mostly nonsense .What are the notes they want to hear , or what to do if they dont like the tone .

[@alext8828]

If by "parials" you mean harmonics, why would you want to reduce or eliminate them? They give the guitar it's character, IMHO. The brace angle can't be 85 degrees. That angle is wider than a rt angle. Sorry, I can't watch this. It's all wrong.

[@thepragmaticluthier]

I think you have misinterpreted what you saw and heard. An X angle of 85 degrees is the included angle of the braces, measured between them, not from the center line. A right angle has nothing to do with it. I'm not trying to eliminate partials (harmonics ) at all. Please review that section of the video again. That guitar is now complete. It's not wrong. You should hear it. If you don't care to watch further, I respect your choice, but to simply submit that what I'm doing is "all wrong" is insulting and over the line of propriety. May I suggest that you post a link here, of one of your videos, showing us the "right way". It would be welcome and not subject to insult, at least from me.