Topic 9: A Response To 'A Messianic Jewish Perspective on Luke-Acts' AJ Levine, Q&A with Mark Kinzer

Dr. Amy-Jill Levine is University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies and Mary Jane Werthan Professor of Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt (Divinity and A&S). She is also Affiliated Professor at the Woolf Institute: Centre for Jewish-Christian Relations in Cambridge, England. Dr. Levine has held grants from the Mellon Foundation, NEH, and ACLS, and she has held office in the Society of Biblical Literature, the Catholic Biblical Association, and the Association for Jewish Studies. She served as Alexander Robertson Fellow (University of Glasgow), and the Catholic Biblical Association Scholar to the Philippines. In Spring 2019, she was the first Jew to teach New Testament at Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute.

[@patricialauriello3805]

I read many of her books and love her work.

[@Eliezer1018]

The whole issue comes down to the fact that Yeshua didn’t come to abolish the Torah, but to elevate it.

[@Eliezer1018]

Outstanding dialogue and true scholarship from two giants in our day and time. Baruch HaShem!

[@revsophiasnyder6401]

Awesome teaching thanks

[@chriswilcocks8485]

I think AJ was a lot clearer But such a respectful discussion Thankyou

[@Eliezer1018]

Thanks

[@Eliezer1018]

The whole issue is Yeshua didn’t come to abolish the Torah but to elevate it to a higher level.

[@Eliezer1018]

Yeshua didn’t come to abolish the Torah but to elevate it to a much higher level. Return to Torah.

[@Steveorino123]

You need to tell that to the Jews. Maybe that’s you intent, idk.

[@tookie36]

20:44 what is her interpretation of the flood then? Or the other genocides later in the OT?

[@andrewscott8758]

Is she winding us up?

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

The problem with this viewpoint is that Jesus started a Church in Matthew 16 and appointed Peter and his successors to lead the visible Church on earth. That Church is still here and the successor of Saint Peter is Francis. There is an unbroken, documented historical link of the Catholic Church directly back to Peter and Christ Himself. So can the Orthodox directly right back to Andrew and Christ Himself. Thousands of Catholics and Orthodox died as martyrs for the crime of protecting the teachings of Jesus and transmitting those teachings. They were crucified, hanged, tortured and fed to wild animals as entertainment. Jews can't just turn up over 2000 years later after successive generations have turned their back on Him and claim to be the only true followers of Christ. Catholicism is not a Gentile religion. It is the religion of faithful Jews into which Gentiles have been made acceptable. This is why Hebrew Catholics have always been able to claim their Jewish culture, identity and religious practices. No other group that converts to Catholicism is entitled to that. It's fantastic that Jewish believers are now coming to Christ, we seem to be coming full circle and that's a eschatological sign for sure just don't insult the people who cared for and protected the transmission of faith for 2000+ years - the two ancient Churches of the east and the west, the two lungs of His Church.

[@Feliz831]

In the bible is a passage that the early church celebrated pessach. here a link to it. www.wicwiki.org.uk/mediawiki/index.php/How_Often_did_the_New_Testament_Church_Keep_the_Passover%3F But the catholic church worked hard on it to eliminate it by law. And they did not want to do anything with their jewish roots. The first antisemites in the church.They evan changed from the right jewish calendar to the false gregorian one. They addet christmas with the pagen tree. Which came from the germanic tribes .It was well documented from the roman writer tacitus. And because of the false gregorian calendar they celebrate the crusifiction on easter. And Jesus was crusified on passover because he is the passover lamb. Here a link to it. www.shalom-peace.com/PassintheNT.html Than the protestants came they were fighting for a good cause. To break the non biblical traditions from the catholic church but they drifted also into antisemitism. Here a link also kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4bdeYyqnbusjrM and that's why until today the Jews reject Jesus. Because of the antisemitism and persecutions and inqusitions of the Jews in the middle ages. And the dark history of the church became a stumbling block to evangelise the Jews. Don't get me wrong there were also good christians believers but they were also burned in the middle ages. The majority so called christians did not live a good christian life. They were full of hatred. And most of the popes were corrupt. Sorry if i have spelling mistakes english is not my first language.

[@blanktrigger8863]

The problem with this is that Peter was never elected Pope and this is supported by the fact that nowhere in Acts nor the epistles do we see evidence of him (nor the other Apostles) understanding himself to be one. This is further supported by the fact that the keys of heaven are later given to the rest of the Twelve Disciples as well. In context, it's easy to see that the Church didn't start in Matthew because nobody was born-again. The new covenant hadn't even been instituted yet, and the vast majority of Yeshua's disciples at that time (he had something like 70 major ones) abandoned him and apostasized. So what we're seeing in Matthew is better understood as the pre Church ministry of Yeshua and the Disciples to the Jews in preparation for the coming new covenant and for the evenagelization that would follow. More importantly, there's also a wealth of things that one can point to in history to show that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are a different religion from what originally existed. The unbroken chain argument is false.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

@@blanktrigger8863 Jesus appointed Peter steward/albayith and told him to take care of/feed/protect His sheep. Papa was given as a name for the steward role as he he cares for Christs sheep as a father. Iraeneus a Church Father writes in 180AD about the primacy of the church in Rome about Peters leadership role to be succeeded by Linus and succeeded by Clement. Read Isaiah 22 vs19-24. The "keys of the House of David' which the King takes form Shebna and gives them to Eliakim. The "keys" in Isaiah are keys to the Temple as David was a priest-king like Melchizedek. In the Kings absence Shebna the steward was in charge and we see that role being passed onto Eliakim. This steward office/second in charge office is what Jesus is instituting in Matthew 16. Catholic priests belong to the priesthood of Melchizedek and David, which belong to Temple ancient judaism. Below is a discussion on this role from a Jewish perspective. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWWbqqSaer-cd68

[@blanktrigger8863]

@@SaintCharbelMiracleworker There are several assumptions here that don't follow from the text and that fail to answer critical points that I mentioned. For example, the scene with Peter being told to feed the sheep is better understood as a parallel to the 3 times that Peter denied Yeshua, this indicating that he was forgiven and still considered to be a Disciple. Moreover, it doesn't answer the point about neither Peter nor the other Apostles showing an understanding of Peter as Pope. On the Iranaeus point, it's clear that the other churches didn't agree. That's why the RCC-EOC split happened - that was based on tensions that were present for centuries before they spilled over. History also shows that there was no understanding that the Bishop of Rome was Pope until much later when Rome consolidated power. And the idea that Peter selected someone from Rome and not from the first church in Jerusalem doesn't even make sense. (From what I understand, the claim is speculation from the Traditions about what Peter must have said to somebody about who he selected after he was taken to Rome to be executed since he never had time to personally appoint anybody.) The last part doesn't work because when Yeshua ascended he sent the Spirit to fill that role. But moreover, this point ignores the fact that the keys were later given to the twelve disciples (where it's clarified that it's the authority to excommunicate) - this then follows along with what we see later in Acts and the epistles, where authority is shared, with no evidence of anything similar to the authority of the Pope. (Also, the "priests" don't belong to the priesthood of Melchizedek - and everybody born-again (those being sons of Yeshua, the Everlasting Father) are priest-kings after the order of Melchizedek. That's why we have only one high-priest: Yeshua is like the new Aaron and we are the sons of that high-priest family. Since the hayyoth who carry the merkabah correspond to the regular Levites who carried the Ark (which is patterned after the merkabah), the spirits (or what we call the angels) would be the "regular priests" corresponding to the non-high priest priesthood.)

[@Bobby14221234]

The problem is the catholic church has been established by the Romans and adopted paganism - Jesus warned this church in revelation 2 (Given to John ). Jesus will NEVER see His disciples have any idols. God hated to see us worshipping the gods made by human hands whether stone or wood or animals like some religious groups - they worship 🐄 cows, moon, stars etc... As these are the creation of the Creator. Jesus came not to abolish the Torah but to FULFILL ALL the LAWS in the Torah because no one can really obey these laws. That is why God has made a new covenant through Jesus. The law in the Torah, the sins requires atonement through the innocent blood of the animal. I wonder if the Jewish people do this? Because if they do and violate some of the other laws in the Torah, will still not be acceptable to God- Jewish people know these things. There are so many laws and offerings prescribed in the Torah and it's impossible to execute all of them. This is one I the reason why so many Jewish people end up being an atheist. The new covenant is to be Sincere that we confess our sins and be born again. We must believe that in the blood of Jesus we are redeemed. And Jesus new command is to love one another. Israelites rabbis know that animal sacrifice is not acceptable to God anymore because the scarlet tie that they tie on the neck of the goat 🐐 they sacrifice don't turn white anymore right after Jesus died on the cross. They have records of this in their ancient synagogue 🕍. the ancient rabbis also have a record that the 30 feet curtain was cut from top to bottom right after Jesus died on the cross. Our sins required the atonement of innocent blood. If the blood of the animals is the way for our salvation - With 7 billion people that God wants to save? Then we need 7 billion innocent animals every day? Because the only sacrifice to satisfy Gods forgiveness is the blood of the innocent - - and that is why God has sent Jesus to become a man though virgin birth - and Jesus blood to be sacrificed to God Himself for our atonement. th originator of the sacrifice must be holy - and the only holy being is God - and Gods sacrifice must be sinless and innocent. As mentioned in the scriptures - no corruption in Him (Acts 13:37) If all our great interpreter of the scriptures spent their lifetime interpreting the scriptures and they will say I did not like this passage of mark - and oh! I like this one better - we will end up not harvesting souls but we become a mouthpiece for Satan. And the time is running out I do believe we are now in the last thousand years until the Yeshua return. The establishment of Israel is one of these warnings and it's now done. This was the only era where born again Christians flourished and were accepted. The revelation scriptures also warned us that the people will be wicked to the point where wickedness become a normal and accepted. The Congress around the globe have accepted an recognised - man-man couple, woman-woman couple? And everyone is so sensitive and cannot be corrected? in our current time, Women wants to beat a man and wanted to be equal with men- in other words their mental state is becoming an alpha-male? This is just one of the lies of the enemies. This thing has been equalised by Gods saints - these Gods people have been granted a holy spirit to share their faith. This is the reason why satan cannot reveal himself in physical form yet because of Gods saints. Revelation 11 as Gods final warning to repentance has to happen because God Wants to save more souls to complete His numbers. Once these things happen - the rapture will occur - Gods saints Will be seen all over the world like the way the globe 🌎 watch revelation 11 unfolding before the eyes of everyone. We are in the internet era - we can watch video clips simultaneously If we want to as it occurs- revelation 11 is very clear on this one. We have to remind ourselves that the revelation also warned us that NOT many people will be saved- one of the reason is that so many false teachers and falls prophets will come. These false teachers will come as sheep 🐏 clothing. Jesus warned us in Matthew 7:15. you will know by their fruit 🍒 🍓 🍑 - attitude, behaviour etc. Their relationship with the people around them. Gods peace be out you all!