Direct Drive Wheel - What They Don't Tell You

[@yogxoth1959]

It's so refreshing to hear someone who sounds calm and natural on KZbin, and is not yelling all the time. Good content too! Subscribed.

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey Bocken - thanks. Heh, yeah, KZbin encourages shouting. I think some people confuse volume with enthusiasm - especially in the Gaming community!

[@Unfunny_Username_389]

I think too many people have not thought sufficiently about what they're going to say, nor how they're going to say it. More people should consider scripting their content, and indeed, reading from that script wherever possible. I personally would much prefer informative content delivered in a vanilla way than rubbish disguised by enthusiasm. But this upload is informative AND well-delivered.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Bobby - I very much agree with you. I understand the appeal of 'doing it on the fly', but few are really capable of doing it well. There's a reason that 99% of televised content is scripted!

[@cheezcruncher]

Sounds like 3kliksphillip lol

[@jagheterhopp]

Can't be more true! Subscribed.

[@JZStudiosonline]

I wish any of the sims actually simulated power steering. I'm fine with the steering in the Lotus 49 being heavy, but the 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer shouldn't have the same wheel weight. Yet for some reason people are obsessed with maxing out their torque. As far as I've seen, BeamNG is the only game that simulates power steering.

[@ChrisHaye]

Good point JZStudios - Something I hadn't really thought about. In some sims you can change the FFB level on a car by car basis, which to some extent approximates the steering 'weight' but that scales all of the other forces as well.

[@ObitoUchihaisgay]

I just use a FFB app in AC to change the feedback while driving until it fits the car im in

[@JZStudiosonline]

@@ObitoUchihaisgay The issue is that only really works for AC... and maybe Project Cars, but other than the obvious road cars I'm not car-geek enough to know what cars do and don't have power steering. Generally I like it pretty soft, like every normal car I drive, I even use the Drift setting on my Fanatec otherwise it's just unnecessarily heavy.

[@NorfolkBlue]

i think iracing and a few others have this as well, no? I noticed before that different cars in iRacing feel like they have a much heavier wheel weight when using the same settings

[@JZStudiosonline]

@@NorfolkBlue Haven't ever tried iRacing. I'm not sure I'd put it up to simulating power steering as much as the different cars just have different feedback levels for whatever reason. I only say BeamNG because they have a power steering module you can remove from the vehicles, and heavier vehicles have more resistance than lighter ones.

[@SteveSmith-fh6br]

Honestly who runs at 100% ffb? Why would you want to? After 8 hours of sim racing you'd be pretty sore and your performance would drop off significantly. I almost feel that the people going after high torque are the same crowd that think harder to drive cars are more realistic.

[@ChrisHaye]

Totally agree Steve. It's nice having the headroom, especially in Assetto Corsa, where some of the cars have quite subtle feedback. But, turning everything up to 11 doesn't really offer much!

[@Yozzeus]

I run at 85% in ac and 100 in acc .

[@ATLRIOT]

I couldn't agree more, when I stream of 6 hours my arms would fall off at 100%.

[@darkghost5770]

I lowered my ffb to 45 on my tsxw driver.

[@Erowens98]

One thing is immersion, the other is speed. A high torque wheel will accelerate faster, giving much more accuracy. Especially important when you hit a curb, or you lose traction or something. If for example your wheels want to align to 15°, a high torque wheel will get there twice as fast as a consumer wheel.

[@grizzly9960]

"What they don't tell you" Implies something negative yet this video is positive.

[@gonzalofernandez6603]

Aaaaand there is anything new on what he says.

[@AnxP110]

No it doesn't, we are just used to use it that way

[@albertpapikyants]

Your voice is therapeutic

[@lucasrem]

Albert Albert therapeutic ? need that? Toy simulator got you running mad.... Need a real simulator or this toy wheel?

[@TheLunnyBear]

@@lucasrem WHAT?!

[@_chp_]

@@lucasrem What are you even fucking talking about I got zero words from that

[@whotesamurai]

@@lucasrem you missed a whole sentence as well as a whole comment section

[@Rahul75559]

I got throat pain. Feels like he’ll lose his voice any moment. 😂

[@Kris_T_]

Hi there, I'm an amateur welder/fabricator/blacksmith, and I recently constructed my own sim rig, not from box section, but from tubular steel. I used 30mm pipe with 3mm wall thickness,(which everybody told me was 'over engineering' it). I packed all my pipes with sand, initially to help with the bending process, but I left the sand in to add weight. All joints are welded not bolted, wich adds rigidity, I use a car seat with it's sliding and reclining mechanism to adjust driving position. I think my frame is very rigid indeed, although you would have to test and compare to know for sure. Most importantly, it would be a very cheap alternative for alot of people. If you would be interested in trying one out, I'd be happy to build one to your requirements. If you are interested please get in touch with me so we can discuss more, I'm not after money, but I might like an endorsement/honest opinion. It's up to you, I wont spam you.

[@ChrisHaye]

Hi Kris - interesting stuff. If you don't mind, I'm going to pin your post to the top f the comments, because I think it'll help out others that build their own rigs from scratch.

[@CriticoolHit]

@@ChrisHaye Or people looking to build a Tornado proof destruction shelter! 30mm/3mm jacket pipe stuffed with sand then welded and bent? Just climb inside pull a thick tarp over the top and hang on tight. I want to know how much it weighs hah! Put wheels and a fire extinguisher in it and it would probably pass tech.

[@eriktruchinskas3747]

@@CriticoolHit would probably be safer than race cars up until 70s/80s

[@Kris_T_]

If you don't care for rigigity, make your own from wood & stuff. I can make you a frame, but consider deivery costs too. I don't really want to conduct business here in the comments section. If you want a frame please message me on my channel. Thanx

[@Kris_T_]

about 50 kgs

[@virdog]

I appreciate you taking up my precious free time. Keep the videos coming!

[@ChrisHaye]

Heh, thanks David - much appreciated. Also, I'm amazed anyone listens though the last 15 seconds of the videos!

[@FordGranada75]

The higher dynamic range is exactly what I'm expecting from a direct drive wheel. Good to hear that they have even more advantages, so I'll eventually upgrade my current belt driven wheelbase to a direct drive one. I knew that the maximum amount of force feedback was not the point and I hoped for other benefits - thank you very much for explaining them! Great video!

[@regibson23]

I love how some people always say equipment doesn't make you better or faster. Then other people like Chris talk about the better equipment it's always "this is easier, that's easier, i got X seconds faster", etc.

[@garyrobinson3]

Every time I watch one of your videos I feel like doing a slow 👏🏾. Your videos are refreshing, superb, and crisp. I’m just a newbie doing research on the best way to get started. I’ve just built my sim rig and I’ve been looking for tips. The algorithm keeps suggesting your videos and I’m so glad that it does. Thanks Chris, you’re the man!

[@bad-bunnyblogger8171]

I've noticed having/using a good wheel setup improves throttle control and instinctive eye to hand movements.

[@Frankestein01nl]

It's an honor and a pleasure watching and listening to what you have to say, mr Haye. I too have caved for the direct drive wheel and was indeed concerned if my diy-rig (from wood) would hold... and so far.. i'm anxiously positive saying that mine can hold about 12 nm, but i tend to cling to about 8-10 in most sims, simply because i donot want my customrig to blow up. ;) I have however tried one aluminium profile rig and i was very surprised that it wouldn't budge a single millimeter under load. I'll be going that way, when this one starts cracking and creaking more under load. One thing you forgot to mention, when one buys the OSW, it doesn't standard come with a buttonbox, or a wheelrim... or a pedalbox... (usually, i haven't looked up the package you've bought before commenting) It's a really nice wheel to have, i can even do Trucksimulator with the OSW wheel set to 2160 degrees (but, you have to take off the coiled-cord for the buttonbox, as it WILL snap in a matter of a month, so i'm actually waiting for some smart guy to make a buttonbox with a battery in it, and a dongle... a little birdy told me someone is actually working on somethign like that)

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey man. Thanks for the comment. I think much of the problem with the current rig are due to the design not really factoring in the torque levels of a DD wheel. The material choice isn't really a problem, but the design does nothing to mitigate lateral twisting. I hadn't thought about the USB cable issue with truck-sim - that's a very good point - and as you say, an opportunity for a wireless product.

[@brodeur212]

I like the calmness and the way the video is due. thank you !

[@goose1146]

I was really looking for someone to tell me why to buy a direct drive wheel. I’m glad that you actually gave a good review of rather overview of direct drive. Now I can keep my current wheel without feeling im needing more because the features I need aren’t on the direct drive wheel. I’m getting the information I need from my current wheel and I won’t get any more from a direct drive wheel. So thanks for saving me about a thousand bucks.

[@gabewalker3764]

Spent 3 grand on my electronics (wheel, drive, pedals, etc.).. the best choice i ever made was building a 2x4 framed racing rig out of lumber from home depot. 50 bucks in materials and its more rigid than any production rig/seat ive ever tried. Give it a shot.

[@BaioWithMayo]

I welded mine together (practice before I started working on actual roll cages and structural stuff in my real car) and yeah if you got the DIY skill lumber or metal are totally worth the cash saved. And it's got a cool factor something bought just doesnt have

[@Rosinfiend]

Lol 3k spent 7k on all my stuff

[@OrdinaryLatvian]

@@Rosinfiend ...and?

[@Rosinfiend]

@@OrdinaryLatvian 3k isn't alot for a sim rig that's the price of my wheel base and pedals and two steering wheels alone...

[@LoneLostRanger]

@@Rosinfiend nice ego man

[@MrTimdtoolman1]

You offer a unique perspective to the world of DD wheels, at least from my viewpoint. A fantastic video my Man

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Tim - you're too kind.

[@Yallcanstaymad]

I've never watched you before or even have a wheel, but this was exceptionally well explained. subscribed

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Andrew - much appreciated, glad you enjoyed the video.

[@Frankestein01nl]

We definately need more down-to-earthers, subbed!

[@lucasrem]

Andrew consumer wheels are good to start on, you don't need it for force feed back! Guy is not understanding..... It's not in the wheel, you need hydraulic axes first, you need the motion first, that is the big leap on a consumer wheel too, Motion axes first, then do direct drives wheels and other prefers extra's

[@elredster2]

Really good, highly informative, to the point and well constructed video. See so many KZbinrs rambling on, but this was very well put together.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks dude, much appreciated.

[@jeffro503]

@Chris.....you are slowly becoming my favorite sim racing guy on youtube. I so much dig your explanations and so forth on the sims and hardware. I've been racing 2 wheel motosports my entire life , and got into the 4 wheel sims about 5 years ago. I enjoy it a lot , but I still have so much more to learn. You have really helped fill in some of those missing pieces , like what this video just did. I'm running a CSW v2.0 , and want to make the jump to a DD wheel this summer some time. This video gave me some more info I was looking for. Thank you.

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey Jeffro - glad you're finding the videos helpful. As for 2 wheel motorsport, I can't help but feel that it must give you a real appreciation for how a tyre interacts with the tarmac!

[@ekstrajohn]

I've been researching DD wheels last few months and you gave me new info / opinions ! Nice one. :)

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks exstrajohn - much appreciated. Glad the video was helpful.

[@TheGavranatar]

I think this video is very relevant at the minute since the CSL DD was announced. Lot of people getting lost in debate about 5 or 8Nm not being enough or whatever.

[@Anttuu]

Instant subscription! You seem calm and very much like a real person. That combined with the way you express your opinion so clearly is just the cherry on top. The video taught me stuff, cheers!

[@ndretti6816]

This is over a year old but was great. I don't subscribe to many but yours is a no brainer. Good job.

[@jamesmckernan1234]

I could fall asleep to your voice, it is incredibly soothing to listen too, great video! im going to get saving for a dd wheel

[@Lelo12]

"Hi fellow Sim Racers." That's enough for me, I heard his voice and instantly subbed.

[@billybobbongo]

Very insightful video. The proverbial hat is off to you, Chris. Got to say that enjoyed it so much...I subscribed and have been binge watching your content ever since. You're a breath of fresh air to the Sim Racing community.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. Glad you're enjoying the content.

[@OkiDingo]

The comment about not spinning anymore I could 100% agree. While I don’t have a DD, when I switched from T-300RS to ClubSport I noticed I could definitely catch snaps on the rear end that I couldn’t before.

[@OleBentel]

Have you tried to stiffen up the steering wheel stand sideways? It seems to be moving sideways, and you could counteract this with a cross between left and right riser, or just a plate bolted in.The longer separation of the upper and lower bolt will increase the stiffness. This should stiffen it up so it won't move sideways. From the movie, it seems to do that.

[@ChrisHaye]

You're quite right. And your proposed solution sounds great. There's a lack of lateral stiffness across the wheel-deck, which allows it to twist.

[@kochj0713]

With ACC and the adjustable caster, I am very happy I have A DIrect Drive wheel. I can feel the front tires when on edge ( this ledge is not like a scrubbing, or slidding feeling, instead it will make the wheel go from 10lb wheel force to 3lb wheel force), fall of it, the wheel goes soft, Knowing you now are on the loosing grip side, and you better slow down.,

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey man. I agree with this completely. A lot of people dislike the ACC FFB because it has a bit less 'granular detail' - which I think is mostly chassis vibration. However, as you say, you can feel so much more useful information about how the tyres are behaving, in particular from the sidewall.

[@silviutudorescu8114]

It’s weird my simucube 2 doesn’t change torque when going from grip to no grip! :S

[@gaborkrammer]

Ohh Chris ffs! Reading the title I was so happy and expected to hear about what's never told, why it is NOT worth it. And then... All good, even better than I thought. I wanted to see something negative to make me not want one. Now I have one more video to validate my desire to have a direct drive wheel. XD

[@lindybroome2462]

Thank you great video I havent raced iRacing for over 6 years and I was a beta tester when the started it up getting back in and your video answerd all my questions thank you ....!

[@cz2681]

Thank you for respecting your viewers enough not to beg for likes and subs upfront and getting right into the video!

[@pwh__66]

I think you mean latency not speed; torque is good but latency (time taken for the feedback to be felt) is crucial - great channel

[@englishteacher2711]

I don't have a wheel, and don't really intend to get one. However, I love car games and I subscribed to your channel so that you may have the opportunity to convince me. Thanks for talking normally and making informative videos.

[@biscuitsspam]

What they dont tell you: it may destroy your arms if used without virginity protection gloves.

[@hawhaw6957]

do you even have a sim ? these gloves protect the wheel and also it protects your hand i literally just had my skin cut this morning while drifting since sometimes i gets hard

[@biscuitsspam]

@@hawhaw6957 its a joke from Jimmy Broadbent...

[@SpaceMonkeySalo]

You're vids are like a calm intelligence in a sea of excitable bell ends. Keep up the good work.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks dude, as always.

[@uniikkiz]

I hate it when people dont tell me about things, glad I got this video

[@AbrassiveMandrake]

Very good video as always Chris. If you find the time please reflect on how it affected your ontrack performance in terms of laptime and consistency. When I see people driving circles around me consistently in an old G27 then I doubt a DD wheel would get me any closer to them ;-)

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks dude. Honestly, my lap times are pretty much the same - which is what I suspected going in. I see it as a tool to enhance immersion more than a driving aid.

[@tonygee3284]

Ordered the Accuforce v2 can not wait to bolt it to my rig and race Had a T500rs for 10 years and finally she died lost ffb and she had given me many hours of fun So I thought right time to save hard and go direct drive Enjoy your channel

[@SlowBloke123]

You have a knack for explaining stuff. Patiently awaiting my dd1 so I can finally find out myself. Not ready to upgrade my f1gt too though!

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks SlowBloke - I was on the DD1 waiting list as well, and well, now I'm not! You may be able to do something to stiffen the rig if you experience the same problems I have. It's not a showstopper, but once you notice it, it's a bit disconcerting!

[@SlowBloke123]

@@ChrisHaye fingers crossed

[@AvengeanceReloaded]

Thorough explanation, in-depth evaluation and a soothing voice to top it all off. Despite having watched only one of your videos, I'm definitely going to check out more of your content. Subscribed!

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks JollyG - much appreciated :)

[@connorsmith5912]

I didn't have a clue what he is talking about but man is his setup mesmerizing.

[@PandorusFightStick]

Well I built my own woods rig, and does not move 1 bit. Solid as rock. Just got my dd2 and Heusinkveld pedals, and blown away by the quality

[@Mohawk_Racing]

I built a very capable osw cockpit with uni strut. The chassis cost me £60 and half a day with a hacksaw and some spanners. Its a really simple design, but very rigid, and the flexibility with uni strut makes it very adjustable and almost infinitely expandable

[@decapnz]

Thanks Chris. Another very informative and enjoyable video.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Michael - much appreciated.

[@freejrs]

I'm looking to get back into sim racing and was hoping to find a good quality channel with mature, well put together content. Looks like I found it!

[@michaelperras4142]

Easy to listen to a refreshing change. I just bought my first wheel this week and am not ready for a direct drive wheel but enjoyed the video none the less.

[@carlosfandango2419]

No pressure here, honest!! It would be nice if you reached out to Bodnar or other top end supplier for a comparison. I trust what you are saying and it confirms what everyone else says about direct drive but I like your vids and it would be great to see if there is a difference within the direct drive market. Keep up the good work, look forward to all your content.

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Carlos - I'm of the same opinion, though I doubt it'll be happening any time soon. I do have some contact with a couple of providers, so it would be nice to do a comparative review at some point down the road.

[@AshBhang2010]

I enjoyed your commentry and hope you do more in the Sim field. . Your very easy to listen to and I enjoyed your content. . Get a Alloy frame . You deserve it. . 🏎 🏎 🏎

[@BIBILOUK]

Yeah, I very much enjoyed listening to Chris Harris talking about simracing. Thanks Chris

[@RobertLidstroem]

Very informative! Thanks! My new go-to channel!

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Robert, much appreciated.

[@ghostshades]

Thank you, this exactly a point i have made when other tubers have proclaimed how great it is to have a wheel that can produce lots of peak forces. I want to know how much continuous forces can be applied, sustained and how quickly these forces can be engaged and disengaged. And will they fade after prolonged use? When does perma fade set in? Then, to make sense of these numbers and put them in context, I also think you should consider adding tables of comparison with all the other high end wheels on the market - the ones your viewers may be using. But like I said, good review, just too thin... Subbed, liked and shared!

[@blinddog9403]

Thanks for relevant info Chris -- & I dig the sensibilities (imo) your posts reflect. Be well.

[@gtguy123]

excellent content. Your voice is nice and clear and provided very useful information. I'm currently using the Fanatec CSL Elite setup, and is looking to upgrade to a Direct Drive this summer. I look forward to your video on your rig setup and how you plan to reinforce it for the new DD wheel base, subbed.

[@dotaleet]

Great analysis and video overall. The effort shows. Well done and thanks!

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks dotaleet - much appreciated.

[@jahshjahsh2002]

I moved from G29 to T300 to CSW V2 and what had my attention was the lower lag in input and output, not the strength.

[@ChrisHaye]

Definitely - the CSW is a very responsive wheelbase.

[@Tom-zc9gs]

I went from a G29 to a CSW V2.5. Apart from the difference being night and day for me, I don't feel like I need a DD wheel at the moment. That's something I don't see mentioned very often. For people who don't have space for a full 8020 rig, who can't justify spending 1000 bucks/pounds/euros on a wheelbase, who might have trouble with the power delivery for the DD PSU, the CSW 2.5 is the next best thing. It might not be as strong or as quick and detailed as a DD, but it's enough for you to enter the zone and get a great feeling for simracing. It has probably the most natural feedback of all the current consumer wheels.

[@ChefofWar33]

@@Tom-zc9gs I love my V2.5. However, if someone gave me a free OSW I would for sure replace it in a heartbeat. However, since that will never happen, I am quite content as is.

[@poppajack5332]

@@Tom-zc9gs have you done a lot of drifting with the v2 or just stick to grip driving/racing, I have always wondered what the csw is like. I started with the g27 but have been using a t500rs for the last 5 years or so and still enjoy it, but i find when a car steps out the wheel is too slow to catch a slide unless the driver knows whats going to happen and can apply opposite lock and ease up on the throttle fast enough

[@Tom-zc9gs]

@@poppajack5332 I don't do drifting so I can't say much how it works for that, but honestly if it works as well as it works for road racing, with quick and twitchy open wheel cars, I don't see how it shouldn't work on drift cars. It is definitely quicker than a G29, not sure about a T500rs, but there is drift mode in the tuning settings that you can dial in to get quicker steering spin and opposite lock. You should be able to find several videos about it too

[@Sternendrache11]

I so extremely want a DD wheel. Currently, because of space and cost not feasible for me though. As always, your videos are excellent. You really have a knack for explaining and narration(?) I guess?

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks Tiies - as always. It's a big investment, and to be honest, if I didn't have a KZbin channel, I'm not sure if I'd have made the upgrade. I was quite happy with my little ol T300 :)

[@Sternendrache11]

I've still got my trusted G27 here :D I do have that for 5 years now though.Which is why I am looking for some kind of upgrade.

[@ChrisHaye]

To be fair, with a G27 - 5 years is just the break in period, there's still plenty of life left in it I'm sure!

[@Sternendrache11]

There definitely is! Apart from reverse gear not registering on the H-Pattern, everything else is in pristine condition. I really think it could easily last 5 more years.

[@nflisrigged1395]

My TS-PC is the closest belt driven wheel to a Direct Drive . It has TONS of detail and power omg the speed and power It wears me out turning it on anything over 60% FFB . Set to 11.4 in iracing.

[@CJ-gh4eh]

I went from a tspc to a csw2.5 and I have to say the fanatec has even more smoothness and force feeed back, the tspc is great at delivering fast snappy ffb but has this friction that the fanatec doesn't have.

[@davesmulders3931]

Chris: you can easily modify that rig to be more sturdy than it currently is. Just bolt on a metal tube from almost near the wheelbase to the base of the rig (straight down) on either side. And between the risers, bolt on a couple of 45 degree cross members (one in each direction). That'll stiffen the whole rig up. This looks as a very shaky construction to begin with.

[@wingnut4200]

Glad you posted the simcube link. I definitely am not ready for a dd wheel. I will get a high end belt drive wheel and spend a few years in the seat. I will know when I am ready to geek out on all the controllable elements in an OSW...in the future. Again, great vid.

[@blakerea671]

Your voice is sooooo calming it’s awsome

[@tylerhassey5210]

I don't even play racing games,I occasionally hop back on burnout paradise just for the hell of it,but I actually found this really intriguing for some reason

[@1mariomaniac]

If you do ever get into racing sims I recommend Assetto Corsa for PC, the Gran Turismo series for PlayStation and the Forza series for Xbox all of those are very solid racing sims.

[@michalvalta5231]

When you are designing/buying your aluminium extrusion rig, make sure to get your monitor stand separate from the rig so you don't have any wobble. 8020 is strong, but not that strong.

[@ChrisHaye]

That's a really good point Michal. I've been using a separate monitor stand for a while now, because it's just more convenient for me.

[@sv-sosa2307]

I’m not really interested in this topic but you’re really easy to listen to 👌🏼

[@thinkfaster]

For the most part, it's fair to say that, at the moment, the commentary in this video is infinitely filled with superfluous affectation-- and that's understandable. To put it simply, I sat on the toilet to take, specifically, well, a shit, and it was a bit wide of the mark. Which was significant, plentiful, and some might say, for want of a better word-- absolutely imprecise. But that couldn't be further from the truth. Bear with me here, it took a lot of tweaking to get rid of the lumpy feel, but, eventually, I got things working, and now it feels absolutely correct.

[@probosse]

Love the quality of your video on every Front! refreshing !!

[@connorp1513]

wheel mount plate is flexing because it seems to be a relatively thin piece of pressed steel. get someone to weld another piece of box section between the two uprights and you'll be sound and save yourself an absolute fortune!

[@isaks3243]

i spent 5 hours with a friends direct drive wheel and it felt amazing, but i am actually faster with my g27, probably cause i have close to 2000 hours of racing with my g27 but it means that you can be fast with a cheaper wheel. great video tho!

[@ChrisHaye]

Totally agree dude. I don't think I'm any faster than I was on my T300.

[@isaks3243]

@@ChrisHaye consistency on the track is a whole different matter tho, I didn't make any big mistakes after just an hour of learning what to feel for in my finger tips when driving. But just so you know, this was a great video! I watched it from start to end without skipping forward (as I almost always do) cause it was paced perfectly and you didn't stay on one particular point too long! Well done!

[@howitzer155mm3]

I was driving with a DFGT for years, and a G29 for the last 2, despite the brushless motor designs, my skills and consistency have improved dramatically thanks to FFB, but I'm wondering, with more detailed information from the wheel, have you found yourself able to be more consistent and precise thanks to the feel and information provided by the motor?

[@pitlanes]

Chris, I agree about the sliding point you raised. I only have an Accuforce DD wheel but I still have found catching slides induced by my poor driving it a lot more intuitive and successful than with my Fanatec Belt driven wheel.

[@ChrisHaye]

Heh, indeed. I've found that I'm more 'active' with the wheel than I used to be, because feeling the grip limit is a lot easier.

[@ericdeangelis7496]

Oh wow, I gotta ask you..lately I've been eyeballing the exact OSW kit Chris has from simbay 20 Nm Bliss C 4.2 mil cpr.. but still part of me wonders about the Accuforce Pro V2 as the Sim Commander software should eliminate the need to tweak cfg files plus individual FFB settings per car and even physics driven Buttkicker capability as an added bonus. So I guess my question is do you like the Accuforce? Crave more torque? The Accuforce is considerably cheaper for me to get here in Canada. ( And even comes with the rim! ) I too will be upgrading from a belt driven TS-PC Racer so any insight would be appreciated.

[@pitlanes]

@@ericdeangelis7496 I came from a Fanatec V2 and still find myself turning down the FFB as even though the Accuforce is not the most powerful DD base its got far more power than i will ever need and will make my arms ache after a long race. I enjoy using the auto profiles Sim Commander creates for most sim titles and i only have to tweak a couple of sliders and i am good to race.

[@VinReho]

Welcome to DDWheels. Definitely worth the money!

[@CortMarshal]

In regards to high force feedback of aero cars, it's not realistic at all to run the same forces in sims. Older Formula Nippon cars with manual steering can be up to 70Nm torque at the wheel, but that's in corners where the car is pulling near 3G. The driver has 4x his normal weight to pull on the wheel with in that instance because of the forces. Basically, just by hanging on, 110lb Asian drivers can handle it for multiple hours. It's still plenty tiring, but completely different from how ffb works in sim racing. That's why a system like how iRacing deals with ffb with Direct drive doesn't make sense for sustained forces. In a rig, you don't have the benefit of your own weight to put into the wheel

[@anomalousresult]

The g force pulled in a corner isn't in the vertical plane.

[@CortMarshal]

@@anomalousresult Correct? You pull the bottom half of the wheel towards the outside of the corner with your hand that's on the inside of the corner. "Pull, don't push" is what they say at open wheel racing schools.

[@ChrisHaye]

Totally agree on trying to replicate steering load in sims being ultimately pointless.

[@jaysnow44]

Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer and love it looked at some Direct Drive Wheel but all the ones I looked where out of my price range but loved the video

[@valterdasilva3558]

Love your videos Chris. Thank you for doing such a professional job! Informative, trustworthy, entertaining. Truly outstanding!

[@tedpalmer1537]

@4:00 I know very little about sim racing set ups but as an engineer I would say the stiffness issue on your current set up looks to be lack of triangular of the up rights

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey Ted, you're absolutely right.

[@Dewabarasunderan]

I was amazed, then I looked up pricing...

[@messiahshow]

It's not that bad, get a CSL DD 5 Nm to start with for 350€ and when you want more power you buy the booster kit separately for 150€ (you lose 50€ by not buying 8 Nm straight away). Get the fanatec WRC rim for 200€ and the CSL pedals LC for 200€. That will land you around 750€+ shipping. Sure it's not super cheap but you get quality stuff that you won't outgrow after a few months and you skip the whole belt driven segment from Thrustmaster which is not that cheap anyway. I think their TS-PC Ferrari 488 challenge edition is 6 Nm max but it is pricey still. It's belt driven and without pedals it's 570€ here in Sweden, that is ridiculous high without pedals and just as much as the Fanatec stuff I just mentioned above when you include the T-lcm pedals which seem to be the only pedals that are worth getting from Thrustmaster if you want a good feel. Many said that this new lineup from fanatec kinda killed the point in getting Thrustmasters stuff, at least their top tier stuff, the T300 still being better value for money, earlier price was TM's strength and fanatec was out of reach for many but that's not the case anymore since Thrustmaster seem to increase their prices alongside Fanatec stuff without really improving their technology much. I am on the hunt myself for a rig and I will get the fanatec gear above but maybe the V3 pedals straight away as well as the 8 Nm version. You could always check secondhand market for some stuff like rim, it does not wear out that easily like maybe a few years old wheelbase and pedals do. That way you save another 100-150€.

[@mtjeeves1234]

These are cool setups. Sadly I went with fanatec. It was great, but they do no real support at all. So when something needed to be updated I would need to spend 900 bucks and replace the entire wheel. When this happened a 2nd time and I'd spent over 3500 bucks with fanatec. They wouldn't give me any kind of deal on the third wheel. Not being replaced because they were broke mind you, just because they wouldn't update them. So I sold everything on craigslist for 1,400 bucks. Both wheels the 240hz 39 screen I bought for it, the surround sound setup, cage, seat, all of it. I don't really miss it to be honest.

[@1984kylea]

To clarify, if you have the Accuforce tweaking the FFB isn't an issue because of the provided software.

[@MrAllister88]

Spot on video. Love the calm and collected commentary as well. I really suffer with RRRE FFB on my OSW, would you be awesome and share you settings if you haven't done so already?

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks man - someone else asked me to share my R3E settings as well, so I'll try and make a point of taking a screenshot next time I'm on the rig. The FFB isn't perfect, there's still a tiny bit of a 'notch' in the centre, but I've managed to get rid to most of the, for want of a better word 'lumpy' feel that it seems to have by default. It's weird, because it felt great on the T300!

[@MrAllister88]

@@ChrisHaye Indeed I understand that the G27s and the like work great in RRRE. It's a real shame as I love the car rota in the game, it just feels lack luster to say the least on my OSW. Have you done much with Automobilista?

[@ChrisHaye]

Not lately - I've been suffering with a lot of crashes in AMS, which has rather taken the shine off of the experience.

[@bobjoe1469]

Might be too late but the reason your platform moves is that it only uses 2 bars to hold up the platform and the wheel applies side-to-side motion which those bars will have a hard time resisting. You should be able to solve this if you put 2 cables under tension in an X pattern between the 2 bars. Keep the cables at the top half of the bars so they don't interfere with your feet and you should be good to go.

[@Drift4God]

Love this comment, you're going places bro.

[@DaniMacYo]

This is a really good explanation I’ve got the g29 it’s doing my fine. But it could be better I can definitely feel the wheel does not come back to centre anywhere near as good as a DD. Part of the reason I can spin more leasily and say that probably wouldn’t have in RL or shouldn’t happen like that. It’s inconsistent most of the time. I’ve watched plenty of sim racers with DD and while watching I noticed how much smoother and natural it looked and also noted they spun far less. I told myself the DD must be more accurate and precise and a quick reacting wheel. I’ve now watched your video and it confirms all my notes. Thank you, you actually provided the knowledge I was seeking, unlike all the other videos they never explained it probably like you said they went straight to the power and torque stuff. That’s lovely mate, but I need more information.... then your video comes along. I Appreciate it. One question though: If using a DD on console is there a need for the fine tuning for certain games. Obviously you cannot adjust them on Console but maybe with certain games they play well straight away or game devs are adding more options for console games that can cater more to DD settings perhaps. The only real hardcore sims on console are AC and soon ACC. I’m sure they’ll play good out of the box with some tweaking here and there.

[@rallymax2]

So glad I discovered this video. Thanks for the well thought out review of direct drive. Subscribed!

[@yipzone]

Very informative. Thanks

[@47279J]

Thanks, a great and concise video. Important information for us all, who make future plans regarding upgrading their setup from the consumer market stuff.

[@Skippy-id9yt]

If you play with a g920 on the first assetto corsa you feel everything, alot is dependant on the software of the game also assetto corsa competizione on console ffb is very WEAK though

[@johanneszwilling]

😏 Not really too sure how this video ended up in my feed 😳 but the degree of specialization in this world is amazing 😃 Here are racing wheels for simulations with all the bells and whistles 🚗

[@anonony9081]

Great content, love the professional delivery

[@ChrisHaye]

Thanks dude - much appreciated :)

[@TwistedSoul2002]

Ahhh- such a sweet outro.. subbed!

[@rocketsfall]

Great, super well-made video! I'm currently in the "should I really spend 800+ dollars" stage of thinking about DD wheels. Looking real hard at the setup VRS sells... and stressing out about the actual rim I'd need to buy.

[@simpatgaming7828]

Bought a VRS system, coming from a T300rs and it hasn't been worth the $$$ for me yet.

[@rocketsfall]

@@simpatgaming7828 Tell me more! I haven't done it yet because of money (of course), been going with a TS-PC which is relatively close to a T300, but I'm in a better situation where I'm planning on getting a DD soon so I'm very curious as to why you don't feel it was worth it.

[@simpatgaming7828]

@@rocketsfall Will do, just need to finish up work and I'll tell you my experience so far.

[@antonpaco]

Thanks to Chris for the video, very interesting. I have been playing racing games since PS1 always with wheel, during the years I had Logitech, Thrustmaster, always medium and top market steering wheel, but let me tell you one thing. since I tested the DD Fanatec wheel I realized they are the best. Last week I ordered from Fanatec site and hope is coming soon, I spent a lot of money but it's worth it. If you love racing games and have the chance to spend that money (900 Euro complete kit) you will not regret it.

[@benfennell6842]

>not measuring your wheels max hp by making it spin with the wheel attached and using the peak torque figure combined with the time to 360

[@Redman147]

Good information. Thank you for that as well as a voice I could absolutely listen to for hours without caring xD

[@martingolding4951]

In my view it doesn't matter on how much you spend on a wheel it all comes down to the actually game that your wanting to play as all in game setups vary from game to game

[@Clarky_22]

Great video! Natural voice over very good. 😄

[@no_fb]

A great advantage is the absence of belt, and thus no stopping the sim after one hour because the belt starts slipping, a so very much annoying downside in Thrustmaster wheels. But at 1500+ EUR is unfortunately a bit expensive just for that.

[@jurgenbussche]

direct drive is for sure my next rig as for now i will enjoy my csw 2.5

[@ChrisHaye]

Hey Jurgen - I've said in other comments that I think the upgrade would have been harder to justify if I had been using a CSW 2.5 - but the jump from a T300 is pretty massive!

[@jurgenbussche]

@@ChrisHaye still i want one i think the fanatec dd1 ill wait till i watch reviews

[@jurgenbussche]

@@ChrisHaye to be honnest i got my fanatec 3 months now still i found it hard to get the settings right for the ffb feeling i wont give up i am sure i'll get there , to be honnest automobilista and raceroom feels always good with project cars 2 it's a struggle (assetto works fine to)

[@GlenHipperson]

Very informative, thanks Chris. Love to take the plunge with a DD wheel, your video has convinced me to get saving. Would your advice be the 30nm version is un-neccessary?

[@ChrisHaye]

Hi glen - Honestly, I've not used the 30Nm, so I can't say for sure. But, 100% at 20Nm is still more than enough to make your wrists/thumbs hurt after a while! There's plenty of dynamic range, so you can feel the subtle forces (in sims that are conducive to such things), and then the wheel loads up more as you go through faster corners. I think the 30Nm would give a little more headroom, but at a guess, you'd probably not end up using the extra torque 95% of the time. Have a look at the settings William is using in the article I linked in the description. He's got the 30Nm MiGE, and it seems that his ideal setups seem to use around 50%.

[@Tintop]

@@ChrisHaye "But, 100% at 20Nm is still more than enough to make your wrists/thumbs hurt after a while!" ..what?... I can barely turn the wheel at 100% in Simucube tool... ok I have it at 100% in the tool all the time and adjust in the sim, but for example at 60% in raceroom it gets really tough.. i usually drive at 35% in raceroom). in ACC I have gain at 30%. At 50% in Dirt Rally I twisted my wrist :-D ....but have to say I have a Momo Mod27, so it's smaller than your wheel and therefor I need more force to turn it. Also I tweaked the 12.5A ouput from the Servo Drive to 15A (in the Granite Software)

[@Erowens98]

30nm is enough to injure you if you're not careful. 20nm is already nearing that threshold. 30nm is also only really something you'll encounter on older race cars, so unless you're really into historic racing it wouldn't even be realistic. So id say 30nm is more of a niche within the niche for people who want to drive a specific kind of car.

[@Tintop]

@@Erowens98 even when driving virtual older racecars you wouldn't need 30Nm because old race cars had steering wheels with huge diameter. so for example when the old race car had a 60cm steering wheel and you drive it with a 30cm rim in the sim, the servo would only need half the torque to replicate the real forces . Let's assume that an old race cars steering had 30Nm torque at the steering axis (so 30N force on the end of a 1m lever attached to the axis): If you have your 30Nm servo at full power and now use a common 30cm wheel you effectively have to fight 200N of force ---> (30N*1m)/0.15m = 200N. With an old 60cm wheel it would be 100N. To get these 100N force with your 30cm wheel you need to dial down the torque to the half (half the diameter)---> (15N*1m)/0.15m = 100N That all implies that an old race cars steering feels like a 60cm rim on a 30Nm motor... If that's the case, a 15Nm servo would be still well sized :) unless you really use huge diameter wheels haha

[@1984kylea]

It's all personal preference but I don't even run the 13nm Accuforce at 100%, although I am at about 80% or so. Like he said in the video it's not really about the power, more about speed and fidelity.

[@cannyfocus]

Are all of the DD wheels or cubes wireless ? (not a fan of it, there's already enough WLAN and stuff all around nowadays - so I don't want a wheel to do so either) Or is it optional - and you can still connect the base and everything via USB ? Question is related to the Simcube 2 (and Fanatec DD1+2, ..) for example.

[@rolson6775]

A couple of upright braces would be easy, and cheap to add to your chassis and would make it way stiffer. I'd add a upright next to your thigh on the side you never get in or out of, and a shorter one on the side you enter and exit from.

[@Deltaexe190]

It’s impossible to correct a slide because the wheel snaps like an effing crocodile