I ordered this 60kg anvil about a week ago, and it showed up today... I ordered the black version, not the blue. Turns out the difference is more than paint: The black ones are rated at H55RC hardness as opposed to H50RC for the blue ones. Here are some quick observations... 1. the anvil came in a wooden box - thin 1/4" plywood, but hey, its a lot better than cardboard, and it stood up better than what Roy describes here. 2. Both horns had broken through the crate, but neither was damaged 3. The sides of the casting are MUCH rougher than what Roy got in this video. That's probably not a functional issue, but its worth mentioning. 4. The round horn is NOT circular, it's a squat oval horn - not flat topped with a radius and then flat-ish sides - but definitely not circular like the one in this video. 5. There are several spots of bondo... not bad and not deep, but they're there in case you're bothered by such things. 6. The hardy hole is about 1 1/8 by (just under) 1 1/4 inch. It tapers down to be 1 1/8 square about 3/4" down the hole. 7. the pritchel hole 'overlaps about 1/8" into the top face. This just sucks because... 8. the horn is a solid 1/4" below the face (so building it up with weld to be level with the face would require a LOT more filler material, unless I made a cutting block there instead 9. the square horn doesn't come to nearly as sharp a point as the one in the review. Mine has about a 5/8, maybe 3/4 wide flat at the end. and... 10. the paint is HORRIBLE. This doesn't matter to me because I'm stripping it off anyway (to clean up the rough casting, mostly). There's no paint on the bottom of the bick, the square horn or the base, well there is paint actually, there are thick rubberey runs and drips, but not a good coating of paint, LOL. It comes off easily - almost like spray-undercoating or plasti-dip... so its really low quality paint, or so it seems to me. On the other hand: 11. The anvil's got good ring all around, no dead spots to speak of so its probably a good solid cast 12. The face surface is a little too rough to have been surface ground, but too fine to have been wide belt sanded, overall, pretty good, and clearly machine finished 13. the face is good and hard 14. I bounced a hard ball bearing on it, and bounced a 4lb hammer on it and neither left any mark what so ever Overall, I'm really happy with it so far. Shipping took 8 days from California to the east coast, and it cost me $245 on sale. For reference, the last used anvil I saw near me was 75 lbs, chipped and worn out beyond usability, and thoroughly rusted... and they wanted $600 for it - it had been decorating their front porch since the 1990's.
@Craigsyl2 жыл бұрын
I upgraded to the 132 lbs. anvil from the 55 lbs. harbor freight anvil. A huge difference. The 14/ lbs. anvil helps get the job done so much faster and better. Also it does not get dented with every hit of the hammer. Good video. Thank you for the review.
@mr.universe7402 жыл бұрын
I believe the one from harbor freight is cast iron and that's why it was denting on you.
@michaelboyle19832 жыл бұрын
Thanks Roy. God bless you and your family too!
@starhawke3802 жыл бұрын
I recently purchased my first anvil from harborfreight. The nice 55lb one? Yep, that thing. I read some comments from people referring to Anvil Shaped Objects. I loved that term, so I took my die grinder and engraved in onto the side of the anvil.
@user-ii8dz4vu7n2 жыл бұрын
Nice! I have made a railroad anvil and boy... After grinding on it for multiple days I wish I just bought one of these...
@user-ii8dz4vu7n2 жыл бұрын
On another note, I actually like having a larger round hole, because it's easy to make an insert for a smaller hole, and you'd need a shoulder around the hole anyway. The hardy being too big though is a pain for me though.
@metalblueberries37422 жыл бұрын
Great video. That hardy hole is crazy. Thank you for your hard work.
@colini83282 жыл бұрын
That big hardy is nuts, i guess they just scaled up every dimension without stopping to think about it.
@starhawke3802 жыл бұрын
Well, you wouldnt want to get gyped out of the joy of making all new hardy hole tools would you?
@Volundur95672 жыл бұрын
@@starhawke380 lol. Every anvil I own has entirely different hardie hole sizes.
@starhawke3802 жыл бұрын
@@Volundur9567 that would bug the crap out of me... i would pick the largest one and make the others bigger to match. But my CDO is my problem....
@ericsprado46312 жыл бұрын
One can sometimes find a piece of square tubing that can be tacked into oversize hole and still use your 1" hardy tools
@colini83282 жыл бұрын
@@ericsprado4631 i did think abou that too, 30mm box some and some 5mm spacers welded to it.
@bunyanforgings78492 жыл бұрын
I've had the 44 lb anvil for about 3 years and it's standing up fine. The specs from the supplier l bought it from lists the anvil composition as C45 Cast Steel. I believe Daniel Moss uses that steel to make his hammers. It would be interesting to see if Roy could heat treat the little one (you would probably burn through almost 100 lbs of propane if you tried to heat treat the 135 lb).
@baldwin92812 жыл бұрын
C45 = 1045 steel (basically)
@jllaine2 жыл бұрын
The hole at the base of the horn was not intended as a pritchel hole, it was put there to give you a place to pass the socket wrench with extenders through to bolt it to your base. The Hardy hold was positioned so that it could serves both purposes; hardy hole and access for a socket wrench to bolt it down. But it seems you were able to make it function, well done. Take advantage of everything. They are identical because the same factory in china produces them, and a lot of resellers contract for a batch, with tiny tweaks such as paint color or name embossed on the side. They sell out because of the import limits for each reseller's order, then the next reseller gets their batch and puts it up. You will see a LOT of that on amazon, identical products sold by a dozen different resellers, with just the silk-screened name being different.
@FoOtFoOt5422 жыл бұрын
Damn looks so satisfying. Forging is the skill and hobby I’ve been missing out on. I don’t have that many years left but I’ve got to do this
@chrisp90462 жыл бұрын
8 months later. Have you gotten to any blacksmithing?
@baldwin92812 жыл бұрын
Ha! I have the 132. I like it. That paint was a BEAR TO REMOVE- like they dipped it practically. I’ve been using mine for a year now no issues. My Hardy was a mess but die grinder fixes all… wish it was 1” but mine cleaned up at 1.25” The size ratios are different to the 66 for sure. It’s a chunky fat lil beast. Mine came from Vevor but does say Acciaio - but it’s on the other side to the 66. After stripping I can see the induction hardening line - it’s pretty thick, surprisingly. Like 5/8” plus. Mine has good rebound, better than that copy for sure… luckily. God bless bro.
@baldwin92812 жыл бұрын
@@catjockey2710 I can’t see the induction line on my 66 but I did more wire wheel work and less stripper on it than the 132. I probably wiped it out. The main issue with these is obviously the inconsistency from anvil to anvil. I think there are a lot of GOOD copies of these and with a few changes to the casting it could be even better (pritchel position is diabolical) but for the money it’s a good deal. Funny story: I called Vevor about the hardy not being 1” as advertised in the spec sheet on my 132. Vevor has a free return policy. They did NOT want to have to pay shipping taking it back for another one and started bargaining for me to keep it. End of story is a little back and forth emailing and they gave me half my money back, putting it at exactly a dollar a pound… 😊
@5.3pachyderm152 жыл бұрын
It makes me feel good that this anvil has made it easier for people to access blacksmithing. I know that people are buying these and trying out the craft, but unfortunately I know. Lot of people aren't liking it either. My local Facebook marketplace is full of these for sale secondhand. Finished up with the paint stripped sitting on homemade bases.
@garethbaus5471 Жыл бұрын
How many of them might just be people trading it in for an upgrade?
@SchysCraftCo.2 жыл бұрын
Very nice job reviewing it Roy. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend Roy. Can't wait to see more videos. Forge on. Keep making. God bless. Keep teaching. God bless.
@danbell38272 жыл бұрын
I'm currently learning on a 110lb acciao anvil, from our version of harbour freight. I had to pick thru the 3 or 4 they had on the shelf, and picked the best one. The hardy holes are sometimes out of alignment, and a couple had welded patches on the face. Mine is relatively square, and has a smooth face with no repairs. So far it has been great, once I got it bolted down. I have it mounted on a laminated wood block, which is in turn bolted to a 2' cube of reenforced concrete poured into my dirt floor. I also bolted a piece of 3/4" x 4" or so plate down between the legs, to act as an upsetting block. It took a bit to clean up and fine tune, but considering i paid around $280 (canadian) for a 110lb steel anvil, a bit of fine tuning is to be expected. Lets be honest, if we were afraid to make or modify our own tools, we wouldn't be doing this in the first place.
@FixitRestoreit2 жыл бұрын
That's the one I bought, but mine has a 1" hardy and it says acciaio 60 on the side and your right about keeping an eye out for them , they go on sale and sell out super quick!
@twiztidirons93202 жыл бұрын
I got the 60 as well only weighs 102lbs but it's sold as 110lb great little anvil moves metal alot better than my old train track
@gstongs2 жыл бұрын
Hi Roy, Good review. For the money, I think these anvils are pretty good. I really enjoy your review videos. Thanks.
@johncatt18672 жыл бұрын
Great Anvil Review Mr. Roy. Thank you for sharing another Anvil review with us all.
@jondavidmcnabb2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this review looks like you actually used it and have some skill and technique.
@ironhead652 жыл бұрын
Loved that intro! Made me think of the commercial from Robo Cop. The 6000SUX executive car.
@brittinghammerforge94412 жыл бұрын
I like the use of the chipping hammer Roy.
@Arcainmech22 жыл бұрын
I have been using the.132 lb for over a year 90% bounce back for 300 bucks free shipping I can't say enough good things about it
@mjoe8772 жыл бұрын
Great video and review and love that you are Christ centered!
@chewyakarieckenicholas6049 Жыл бұрын
I love my 22lb vevor anvil it's a beast I'm planning to buy one of those 135lb anvils sometime soon
@rifleman73132 жыл бұрын
What were the hardness scratch testers? I'm brand new to knife making and I think that having testers would be better than simply guessing. I also hope that their available on Amazon. Thanks
@Narrow_Gate_Forge2 жыл бұрын
Link in the description for the hardness tester kit.
@rch3172 жыл бұрын
$10 they just scaled the CAD model up and didn't realize the holes. Also. Orange == performance
@TAS13032 жыл бұрын
Ahem, orange = high performance 🤣
@jasonwebb18982 жыл бұрын
I have the 40kg version of that anvil. Mine is probably a little over 50HRC and it was great for the price. The horn on mine is pretty soft like that one.
@rickyricardo35512 жыл бұрын
Heck yeah . I bought the 30kg version but the box was torn up it also had a tiny bit of the horn that was chipped off and on the front of the face it had some small chips on its right side which I was expecting for the price , but after looking at Walmart I found the 40kg for 165$ which was the same price as the 30kg so I just got the 30kg today and I already am processing a return on it since my 40kg will be here in around 5days. That being said are you still enjoying your 40kg 2 months later?
@stevebergeron40462 жыл бұрын
I know I’m 10 months late, but the differential hardening makes sense with the pritchell being on the horn and large. They hung it from the ptitchell to quench …..
@robertlonis93502 жыл бұрын
That was super informative. If I was in the market that would be a good option for one with some heft to it .
@ravenbarsrepairs55942 жыл бұрын
If I didn't have a 119lb Peter Wright already, I'd get one of these and modify the crap out of it. First would be to cut/grind in a shelf around the pritchel hole, then smooth the horn out completely. If it's too soft, I'd fully hard face the top, using the opportunity to also weld in a sleeve to make the hardy hole a common size. The biggest downside it the lack of mass directly under the center of the face because of the spread feet.
@dc85337 Жыл бұрын
I've seen you do a "drop test" on various anvils, so have a question about the drop. The base of the test is wood and it completely touches the anvil. Would that not also dampen the rebound of the ball? True, it is all relative, same test and dampening on all anvils, but would you get a more accurate test if the base only touched on the far edges (1/4" strip of wood on 2 sides) or on all 4 corners 1/4" feet? Seems like the wood would do a bit of dampening itself?
@knifethrower97332 жыл бұрын
I covered the top of my horn with Hard surface welding Rods and it worked great, great hammer bounce, the hammer doesn't leave any marks👌
@BulatsSchmiede2 жыл бұрын
Hi Roy!Thank you for showing !Alfred Habermann said for a long time !"show me a tool and i'll tell you what a blacksmith you are "Thats so true!Greeting #Bulatsschmiede from germany (Bulat the Blacksmith)😊🤙
@eglandon162 жыл бұрын
So this holds up better than the harbor freight one?
@Playswithfire37822 жыл бұрын
I tried to get one of these all last year but they were out of stock. They kept telling me 2 to 3 weeks. I noticed they were finally in stock about a month ago but the price also jumped. Ive had the 66lb for a good while now and love it for what it is but need something bigger.
@thundercrowz2 жыл бұрын
I use a 15lb harbor freight anvil this would make a amazing upgrade!
@ibast12 жыл бұрын
Hey mate, good review. Just a slight niggling thing. Your rebound measurement should be to the bottom of the ball. Only the bottom of the ball gets to 0 in.
@desmcdowell24692 жыл бұрын
Greetings from Ireland ☘ I have several of the "acciaio" anvils and the shape can vary a lot between two types and from my experience if you order in Europe it's just pot luck which shape you get sent. My 132lb has the acciaio logo but looks completely different. The horn is a wide oval shape with less depth to it. The hardy hole is 1 3/16". I also have two 66lb, one is similar to yours with the round conical horn, but the other is more like my 132lb with a wide oval shaped horn. I also have a 22lb which looks nothing like your one. Mine looks much much smaller despite weighing exactly 10kg and has a more round horn. It's has no legs as such, just a stumpy body with four feet. I'm tempted to order another 132lb in the hopes that I get the one shown here but it's possible I'll just get the same again
@Volundur95672 жыл бұрын
I heard about some badly cast ones with distorted horns. If you go that route of buying this, try to ask for a real pic of the one being up for sale.
@desmcdowell24692 жыл бұрын
@@Volundur9567 It's not that the horn is distorted, but rather cast using a completely different shape mould. My 66lb with the oval horn is one of the best finish castings I've seen. It even has the "Acciaio 30" logo on both sides which I've never seen with any other. The horn is perfectly cast, just an odd shape. I have tried requesting a picture of the actual anvil being sent, and have also tried requesting that i simply receive the same as the picture shown, but the response I got was that the anvils are sent out at random and the exact style can vary
@FallenAnvilForge2 жыл бұрын
@@desmcdowell2469 I would be pissed, if I order an anvil with a conical horn, that's what I want, not some random style.
@michaelhayes16782 жыл бұрын
Really helpful! I especially loved your fun intro! (Yes, it is definitely bluer. I know a guy who did a youtube video on fixing that.... :D)
@tango-bravo2 жыл бұрын
Question on the hardy hole; would it be possible to tack weld some shim 1/8” liners from the bottom up to the top so you can use the smaller shank hardies? I would think if the hardy has a wide enough flange, enough of the blow force will radiate to the striking surface while the hardy stays square in the hole?
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
Yes that's a possibility
@MrMelonMonkey2 жыл бұрын
I bought one of those in 20kg also on vevor (mine did have the imprint on the site) and the hardyhole was kind of just another pritchel hole. So Ive been filing a lot to get this square. I also smoothed the round horn since there was a casting seam along the top. Other than that the face was pretty flat with no spots or smth.
@Gmclane512 жыл бұрын
Would you guys suggest getting one of these or going with just a railroad anvil to start our with
@lloydrmc2 жыл бұрын
If you want to improve the repeatability of your rebound test, maybe you could rig up an electromagnet
@paulorchard79602 жыл бұрын
Didn’t recognise you Roy, cutting costs by eliminating razors! 1 3/8 Hardie is huge for any anvil!
@Redbeards_Forge2 жыл бұрын
I'd like one of these but I definitely don't like that over one inch hardy hole haha.. so if I upgrade to a heavier anvil I'd like to make that hole smaller if possible.. maybe weld a 3/4in ID square tube in the hole? Not sure if that would work
@analogplanet96752 жыл бұрын
You could make a set of "hardy adapters" with 1+ 3/8 shanks, so that you could use any old tooling you happen to find or can buy. Bit more involved, of course.
@Redbeards_Forge2 жыл бұрын
@@analogplanet9675 yeah that would work.. luckily a majority of my hardy tools I got is after I bought the little 66lb version of this anvil so I'd only need at least two adapters, 3/4in and 1in, because 1in seems standard.. but the adapter idea, keeps from welding on the anvil.. definitely gonna have to get one and turn my smaller anvil into a on the road anvil..
@melgross Жыл бұрын
The rebound is weird. I’ve seen tests on the 66 lb models, also seemingly RC 50+, and the rebounds were all between 70 to 80%. With testing to 50+ and with more mass, I would also expect a rebound of 70%. So either the tester is causing friction against the tube, draining some of the energy from the rebound, or the anvil has some defect. The other anvils had the expected high pitch ring, while this one had a shorter, lower pitched ring. I’d be curious to see the test with a smaller ball bearing, as this one seems rather large. Since I’m considering the black version, claimed to be RC 55, I’m interested in these tests.
@Watchfuliz2 жыл бұрын
I already have the 66# acciuo anvil that works pretty good even if it is somewhat small....would it be enough of a difference to make an upgrade to this one worth it?..I am just a hobby Smith making small projects anyway.
@LFHiden2 жыл бұрын
Swedish made is always great too!
@Faded_Psyco4202 жыл бұрын
You could fix both the Harty and Pritchle sizes with a cheap threaded metal sleeve with something screwed on cut and wilded and ground flat or a peice a square tube and you could chamfer the edge of the Harty then round over the does into that....
@rustybow72932 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this. Going to have to get a Rockwell tester file kit now. Surprised that the anvil rings, being cast.
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
They're definitely a neat tool 🤠
@everettschmidt82342 жыл бұрын
I just purchased a 100 lb anvil from TFS and I wondering if you have ever work with one and what you opinion of it was.
@stephenknecht71892 жыл бұрын
Whats that anvil made from has a ring to it..
@forkliftwizard2 жыл бұрын
What about welding a sleeve into the hardie to size it down?
@worldwidestuff55672 жыл бұрын
I'm no blacksmith. QUESTION: What are the flakes of material coming off the heated steel randomly as he hits it when cooling?
@nophdcoyote36352 жыл бұрын
It's called scale. It's basically rust forming very fast in the Forge
@maxmorter503 Жыл бұрын
What do you think this vs the new hf Doyle personally
@angryroostercreations51942 жыл бұрын
i wish these were available 10 years ago. I started too late for the cheap Russian anvils, and too early for the Chinese steel anvils.
@SW-ii5gg2 жыл бұрын
What kind of quality were the cheap Russian anvils? I am assuming better than cheap Chinese, but I never knew anything about the Russian anvils until I saw the comment. I wish I knew about them before they stopped coming in.
@ajsironworks39372 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video.
@thundercrowz2 жыл бұрын
Nice beard nice to see you upload a new vid!
@Maine3072 жыл бұрын
delivery quality??? who delivered it? dhl? ups? fedex?
@mking32192 жыл бұрын
Thanks man I'm wanting to start
@fredmonroe60422 жыл бұрын
Love the John Deere in the background 😃
@RobertBranch-FL2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the review!
@allwaizeright97052 жыл бұрын
I got a RAILROAD TRACK anvil - I found a decent price on it...
@wayneheitz83902 жыл бұрын
Thank you for all you do 👏
@loganofnorth8802 жыл бұрын
Wow that was a great video! Thanks
@DoctorTed2 жыл бұрын
Price at Christmas is $6 per kg. (60kg, $360)
@joeknight75272 жыл бұрын
Is it worth paying the extra money to get this over the 66lb one for a beginner knife maker?
@rickyricardo35512 жыл бұрын
I don't know if you already bought one but the 66lb seems good , but that being said after I ordered the 66lb from Amazon for 166$ I saw walmart had the 88lb for 165$ so maybe look into that for th extra size you also still get free shipping with walmart and 30day return period. Good luck
@HisWayHomestead2 жыл бұрын
watched it all the way thru.... I ordered one thru walmart. 132lb for $245
@livelearn49742 жыл бұрын
Roy, if I found this for less. But, I'll only post the link with your permission, since you have the affiliate link.
@beararmory1665 Жыл бұрын
Good video. Good info.
@randybrown98152 жыл бұрын
I got the small one and it's pretty good I use it and it's holding up good
@joelhull34732 жыл бұрын
Do you recommend taking the blue paint off of the horn?
@TheOGPunkinman2 жыл бұрын
I recommend removing the paint, for sure. It burns when you forge near/on it, which is probably terrible for humans...the smell is terrible, too!
@briandaum2672 жыл бұрын
make an adapter for the hardy hole so you can still use the tools that you allredy have
@mytech67792 жыл бұрын
I'd guess that the holes are giant because they just blindly rescaled the drawing from a smaller anvil with no adjustments.
@Varnathin2 жыл бұрын
It hasn't quite been a full year later, but would you still recommend buying this anvil today? I'm still really new to smithing and don't have everything for my smithy quite yet, but when I'm ready to upgrade from the little 10 lb anvil I bought at an auction I'm hoping I don't have to sell a few limbs for it lol I still need to get a bench vise and a forge, but for the most part I think I have a decent start on the tools! I just have a little bitty anvil that might only be good for practicing with making nails, keychains, bottle openers, and other really small projects.
@xMrjamjam2 жыл бұрын
Get this one to learn on, use it for a few years and keep an eye out for something fancier. The heavier the anvil the better but for a newbie this anvil is perfect to learn on. I started with a piece of rail that i turned into an anvil with nothing more than a small angle grinder, hacksaws and files lol. I wish i could have started with one of these, might be worth weldingg an insert into the hardie so you can use 25mm or one inch hardie tools
@Varnathin2 жыл бұрын
@@xMrjamjam Thank you for the advice! I'll save up for this one and pick it up at some point :)
@BrianJaggers6422 жыл бұрын
Where’d you get the clear tube for the ball bearing drop?
@9Antonian2 жыл бұрын
Home Depot “power tec long clear pipe”
@samfisherskiller2 жыл бұрын
Throw some paint stripper on a few and you'll find massive pits filled with bondo.
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
Maybe who knows
@CrazyManwich2 жыл бұрын
Can’t you just weld a better steel on the top if you want?
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
Why certainly, go right ahead. But there is no need. This is already a good anvil.
@jimrichards43622 жыл бұрын
no link what the hell
@justin_ray2 жыл бұрын
You should start every video with a similar voice over.
@MatthewHarrisStudio2 жыл бұрын
I wanted to like this but that would have made the likes 666 and that just didn’t feel right 👊🏼😂👍🏼
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the thumbs up anyway 😉 LoL
@Faded_Psyco4202 жыл бұрын
The paint my guy....the horn is hard....the paint is letting them scratch..
@harleyadam4813 Жыл бұрын
I have a 66 pound version of this anvil. My comment before watching this video after about 15 seconds is.....the lack of dressing on this anvil before use makes me want to cry. Top is rusty. Edges are sharp all the way around. Hardy hole is jagged. Just looks.....unprofessional.
@ATLTraveler2 жыл бұрын
How exactly do you expect to test an anvil in one video?? The only thing you could possibly care about is the longevity of it, like over years and years of banging on it, which obviously is impossible to do in a video. There is a zero % chance any hunk of steel like that would fail upon first use... This is like saying I'm doing to test this patio paver today by walking on it... you're just hitting a very hard chunk of steel with a much smaller weaker peice of steel a couple times... nothing is going to happen... The only thing i'm genuinely interested in and didn't see you answer (you could of later i didn't watch the whole thing) is if this puppy comes with free prime shipping LOL...
@bretnmannn2 жыл бұрын
Worst comes to worst weld a leaf spring onto the face DONE!
@page76metalcraft192 жыл бұрын
Way, wayyyy, WAAAYYYY TOO MUCH MONEY FOR THAT ANVIL.
@mercoid Жыл бұрын
It’s cheap. Cast it off flippantly in pure disgust. Thank you very much.
@bretnmannn2 жыл бұрын
WELD UP THE HARDY AND PRICHER HOLES SMALLER!!!!!!!!!!!!
@danielpaquette15972 жыл бұрын
First! ?
@ChristCenteredIronworks2 жыл бұрын
Boom 💥 there you are 😊
@johngaltman2 жыл бұрын
Much like, socialists, democrats, and marxists? they are always the same thing no matter how hard you scratch?
@tinymission78212 жыл бұрын
Do you drive on public roads? That’s socialism. Did you and or your children attend public schools? That’s socialism. Do you now or do you plan to collect a social security check? That’s socialism. Scratch that all you want.
@johngaltman2 жыл бұрын
@@tinymission7821 So, forcibly steeling peoples money, and then claiming getting a little of it back makes them a socialist? Interesting. Does being arrested by the police for theft and being thrown in jail for it also make you a law abiding person? I'm trying to figure out your logic here.
@tinymission78212 жыл бұрын
This isn’t “my logic”. In the world of your logic there would be no police or jails since they are also paid by publicly pooled funds. That’s socialism too. Do you really think the money you earn, even in total, could come close to paying for all the systems that are in place for you to function and make a living in society? I don’t like paying taxes any more than the next person does. But I do understand that it takes tremendous amounts of money to develop and maintain society as a whole. Many people have paid before you and me so that we could start using it right away before we even earned our first dime and contributed anything.
@johngaltman2 жыл бұрын
@@tinymission7821 It is your logic, you are supporting it. My neighborhood pays for it's own roads, voluntarily, we have a group well, voluntarily, I pay for propane to be shipped in, voluntarily... I think your forced system is just that, forced, and you support it openly I work with the system you are supporting, because I am forced at gunpoint. But feel free to carry on with your attempt at a condescending diatribe. Think only within the box you were given, because for you there will only be the ways that other force upon you.
@tinymission78212 жыл бұрын
Your neighborhood road eventually attaches to a state maintained road. If not for the state maintained one that can give you access to the entire US, your voluntary road would be of little use. But at least you see that it costs money to pay for these things. There’s a reason that a piece of land that fronts a state maintained road is more valuable than one that doesn’t. It will be always be maintained whether people want to “volunteer” or not. It will be there because all of society funds it, even if they personally never even drive a foot on that particular road. That’s socialism. And believe it or not, you benefit from it. Now you’re more than welcome not to use it but I’ll bet you use it all the time not even caring how it’s paid for.