Christian CALLER Gets More Than He Bargained For

[@billmcdonald4335]

"Progressive Christian" used to be called "Heretic" back in the Good Old Days.

[@EnglishMike]

They still are in fundie circles. Alisa Childers is making bank with her book "Another Gospel" which argues that progressive Christians are not Christians at all. But she's a coward - she won't defend her thesis against progressive Christians seeking to challenge it. In fact, when you look at the type of content you see on apologetics channels, it's clear they'd all rather be taking on atheists than progressive Christians. I suspect they're afraid that their viewers (fundies like themselves) might find the arguments of progressive Christians a little too persuasive...

[@jackwaycombe]

The good old days when they used to BURN us??? I'm personally acquainted with 'Christians' who still would, if we didn't have sensible secular laws. When encountering theists of any kind, I find my major sin isn't my atheism. It's my refusal to do as I'm damn well told by my 'betters.'

[@Detson404]

I suspect there’s always been a distinction between the people educated in theology and the people in the pulpits. The more you learn about the faith the more… sophisticated… your understanding has to be.

[@c.guydubois8270]

Sophisticated make-believe?

[@Detson404]

@@c.guydubois8270 Yep. In fact, I think that should be the new name for Theology courses, "Sophisticated Make-Believe 101."

[@ImStayGold42]

He may be a delusional Christian but his audio quality is immaculate, pun intended. 😅

[@kerianhalcon3557]

I know right! So incredibly clear.

[@Yungrexy]

If it is who I think it is then he is a musician/recording artist, he records mock radio adverts (think GTA radio) and creates slightly dystopic concept albums. This actually feels like he is farming soundbytes and quotes to sample.

[@detritus666]

He's using his studio podcast gear obv 🤣

[@johnsperry9494]

Immaculate Reception?

[@queezle4277]

It's clear that Paul edits the clips to cut out the um's, er's, and other vocal tics and filler conversation. I also think he adjusts the sound quality of the callers to better match the hosts. I'm very thankful to him for this. Makes the calls much more enjoyable for us than on The Line channel. I hate when the hosts are at volume 10 and the caller seems to be at volume 2 in a wind tunnel.

[@timg7627]

“I’m not like the other christians” -every christian

[@24magiccarrot]

To be fair that is probably true, I've yet to come across any two theists of any religion or denomination that agree 100% on every aspect of the god they believe in.

[@craigwallace4560]

@timg7627 I'm like hundreds of Christians. Loving, caring, honest, hard working, serving, n submissive to the Savior. So go ahead n never say that again. Cuz I can find you a few thousand Christians that will say the same!

[@craigwallace4560]

@24magiccarrot I can find you dozens if theists who believe exactly as you stated. I think you guys just make stuff up to make yourself feel better.

[@timg7627]

@@craigwallace4560 I believe you just proved my point Thanks 👍

[@craigwallace4560]

@@timg7627 what point? God is real, he created you, and he loves you?

[@puirYorick]

The kindest religious congregations still provide a cover of legitimacy for the extremist ones.

[@Kellie08]

@@puirYorick You are absolutely correct. That’s because kind and immoral are 2 totally different things.

[@JayBandersnatch]

In sorry, but I hate that argument as you can say that about ANY group. The kindest atheists provide cover for the extremist ones. I want kind Christians as much as I want any other kind persons. I judge others by their actions, not their beliefs!

[@puirYorick]

@@JayBandersnatch I take you to task about "atheists" for a start. Atheists merely share a common opinion that the various proposed gods are unsupported by evidence. Anything else that a particular atheist may believe or act upon is beyond the incidental opinion they hold about godly existence. It's like saying that persons with freckles share some blame for global warming because you once saw a freckled truck driver in a badly out of tune diesel truck. My argument about organized religions in fact does make sense because the moderate/nice church congregations (which have zero atheist counterpart) are a public-facing promo job for all the bad stuff which is *specifically only possible by means of religious moral manipulation* like getting people to commit acts of terror in order to prove their love or adoration to their version of a god. The sparse "atheist" clubs or associations I've ever heard of tend to be purely secular or at least they ought to be. Any such group having a manifesto to cause or tolerate harm is merely using the word atheist in order to discredit it. Religion, on the other hand, is founded by the weight of implicit moral threats of spiritual harm if you aren't at least subscribing to the religion in question. For centuries, notable clerics have mentally and physically abused those under their care by specifically (misusing or not) the tenets of the religion itself. A "kind christian" needs to realize that their acts of kindness are down to their own humanity and decency - entirely divorced from the writings in ancient anonymous texts that are meant to mentally enslave the population. Don't give false credit to a dubious man-made book for the goodness that you are. If you *actually* read your sacred book - not the same thing as reading selected bits from it - you may find yourself seeing it for the hate-filled fantastical mythology it represents.

[@puirYorick]

@@JayBandersnatch My earlier detailed rebuttal to your comment has been deleted so I'll simply say that I bluntly reject your arguments as fallacious and misrepresented. Replace the term "atheist" in your comment with *non-stamp collector" and reassess your thought process. The same doesn't work for religious groups if you're being honest.

[@Kellie08]

@@JayBandersnatch I’m sorry, but I don’t like your argument one bit. So, I hope you’re prepared to support your claim with facts by telling me which atheist groups are “providing cover” for anyone and exactly what they are “providing cover” for. Atheists are certainly not the ones known for “providing cover” and you know it. Atheists didn’t “provided cover” for David Silverman. Silverman was terminated as president of The American Atheists when he was accused of financial and sexual misconduct while on the other hand, every single Christian organization from the churches and schools all the way down to the YMCA/YWCA and the boy scouts are well known for covering up, hiding, protecting, relocating and forgiving their abusers. So, I’d sit back down if I were you and choose my words more carefully next time.

[@Greatergood3]

“I believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead”. Cmon, stop it

"I believe stupid crazy sht" - 5 billion theists

[@Kellie08]

I am 53 years old. When I was a child I used to be so ashamed when I’d be asked my religious affiliation and I’d have to say, “None”. I felt like I was somehow inferior for not having one. Now, I am so grateful my parents relied on facts, logic and intelligence instead of religion. I wish they were still here so I could thank them for not subjecting me to all of that ridiculousness.

[@vevocreb]

I was asked the same question at school here in Australia when I was very young and I froze as I couldn’t answer the question as we had no religion in our home.

[@huepix]

Me too. But I do get frustrated by ex theists trying to turn atheism into a "going concern." Esp using confrontation, conflict, anger, etc. to attract punters.

[@EdLuckenbill]

Same situation for me in the 60's

[@hibudy]

Your parents were very smart and progressive considering the time, it wasn't easy either.

[@Kellie08]

@@EdLuckenbill We are definitely the lucky ones. My heart breaks when I hear the stories of physical, mental and emotional abuse people were subjected to as children and for what? I think you have to have been indoctrinated in order to even wrap your brain around it because no matter how I try I can’t make it make sense in my head.

[@RetiredVet1]

The ease of my deconversion must be credited to my parents believing in me and instilling the love of all people. At 14 I read the Bible and when I got to the part where the Israelites asked the king if they could pass through the King’s country and the answer would have been yes, had gOd not hardened the King’s heart which resulted in the Israelites committing genocide. I was done. As I got older and listened to Christians rail against gay people and anyone that did not agree with them, I realized I don’t have enough hate in me to be a good Christian so I never pursued religion after that.

[@TheSnoeedog]

I similarly arrived at a point (I remember where I lived at the time, allowing me to confidently say I was 13) where it didn't make sense that an all-loving god would condemn to hell the homosexuals and addicts in my life.

[@Farce13]

I was 6 when I heard the story of Noah for the first time and my first thought was "wow, God is a jerk". Didn't take long for me to go full atheist

[@freakishuproar1168]

_"I realized I don’t have enough hate in me to be a good Christian so I never pursued religion after that."_ It warms my heart to read that. I've been saying for a while now that I fully accept that there are plenty of decent human beings who happen to be religious, but that for the most part they manage to be good people in spite of (not because of) their faith.

[@craigwallace4560]

That's so sad. The idiots messed you up I see. 5 simple truths. God is real. (just like your invisible thoughts are real) God created you. (look a digestive, cardio, respiratory...we are obviously created). You ever see a building with no creator or designer? God loves you, don't you love your kids? Same w our Heavenly father. God has a plan for you (salvation in the after life...and a way and purpose to live now). And He wants a relationship with you. (just like you want to protect, guide, counsel, love on your kids, etc. Can elaborate on all this. But start with that. And stop treating and judging God like a human. He created us, he can end our lives whenever. Its his choice and He has his purpose. If you created a drawing...it would be wrong of me to steal it, vandalize it, etc. But if you created it, you can elevate it or trash it and start over. Your choice. Its much more complicated than that. But, point still remains.

[@Woreyel]

What you're telling me is that you were never a Christian to begin with. And it seems that you don't believe in God, because you don't like WHO God is.

[@frozentspark2105]

I wish there were channels like this in the 90's. It would've made deconversion so much faster

[@PaulogiaLive]

mine too!

[@stevenbatke2475]

Amen!

[@rainbowkrampus]

With 90s internet? Ehhh...

[@frozentspark2105]

@@rainbowkrampus Late 90's. We barely had dial up when I was in high school

[@tsusmildrides4937]

​@frozentspark2105 ​@rainbowkrampus Radio call-in shows existed back then

[@iamnotgroot3693]

I think the line I have found the most worth hammering is that it's important to not accept assertions without evidence. When you train your brain to accept assertions without evidence you stunt your epistemology, and your curiosity.

[@llwpeaches]

I think it's also a great exercise in humility to not emotionally invest in beliefs until you have evidence to support them, even when that evidence contradicts what you wanted or hoped to be true.

[@donbacker9883]

Cute doggo.

[@davidmccarroll8274]

Hyperthetically how would you deal with a personal revelation of the non physical world giving you personal evidence that you could not prove to other people.Just a thought for you to ponder

[@schnellster1]

what this group fails to pinpoint is that the abusive barbaric fundamental system was actually ordained and designed by God and people by following that became barbaric - pre Jesus. So fundamentally, the problem was created by god himself

[@c.guydubois8270]

​@@davidmccarroll8274well friend, I've sampled LSD, peyote, mushrooms and scared myself silly reading Dracula at age 12. Your/our brains create/make up this that I like to call consensus reality. It's all in your head....

[@adarkerstormishere]

Caller: "I feel that Jesus very much fought against fundamentalism." Jesus: "Want to know how to be perfect? Follow my dad's rules. All of them. And do it until I come back or you'll end up as the main course at his barbeque party."

[@britaom3299]

Bingo. For all those "peace and love Jesus" quotes that prog Christians insist represent the REAL JESUS, I can mine an equal number of "sociopath warlord Jesus" quotes, where peoples' teeth are to be wailed and gnashed for eternity for not believing in him, where a certain ethnic group is said to be "of the devil" and will end up being tortured in a lake of fire, where people are to be brought before him to be murdered for not following him, etc. etc.

[@wizardsuth]

There's quite a contrast between the love-thy-neighbour / feed-the-hungry / heal-the-sick / clothe-the-naked / welcome-the-stranger god of the New Testament and the kill-the-unbelievers / burn-their-cities / destroy-their-temples / steal-their-livestock / enslave-their-daughters god of the Old Testament. Twisting the narrative so that the new god is not only the son of the original but the same being is some bizarre storytelling.

[@matthewharrison7127]

Believe in me and I'll save you from what I'm going to do to you if you don't believe in me

[@matthewgagnon9426]

@@wizardsuth Hell doesn't exist in the Old Testament. It's only in the New Testament that Hell gets harped on as a thing you'll suffer in eternally if you don't follow this random dude.

[@travisleabeck2572]

the god of the Old testament and the Father of Christ are two completely different figures. One is simply a facet of the divine, an overbearing father figure who never had a parenting guide and played favorites with his chosen people. The other is something much vaster, more akin to Bhrama

[@rodbrewster4629]

Progressive Christianity is the harbor from which fundamentalist can launch their ships.

[@JayMaverick]

It's the "means whatever you want it to mean" excuse to move goalposts and reverse the burden of proof.

[@philm7758]

That is such a pithy statement, I think I'll steal it!

[@dannyferguson1427]

its also a safe harbor for ppl on the way out of fundamentalism. ports of entry go both ways

[@sharper68]

It is a harbor, a gateway off the stinking sea of theism onto the solid ground of thought are reason.

[@Hamheel21]

Yes! Recently for moderate Muslims, this is literally true (see 9/11).

[@JayMaverick]

Progressive Christianity is all about avoiding definitions, shifting goalposts and reversing the burden of proof so you can confidently say "but I don't believe that" when someone points out how ridiculous theism is.

[@Nick-Nasti]

It’s about keeping the label without the baggage. Most people just want to live their lives and be left alone. This means agreeing to be part of Christianity in the USA. They rarely, if ever, attend church or pray.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

Yup, when cornered they say god is outside of space and time which of course means that he doesn't exist

[@davidjanbaz7728]

LOL : 😆 as you're default position is no intelligence is the answer to the Universe and Ur intelligence! That's hilarious!

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Look up abiogenesis and evolution and learn how things can originate and develop naturally. :)

[@creativewriter3887]

Yeah.. same hate but different mask. It's another variant of Ala Carte. And as for these progressive xians to still hold up Jesus as some kind of "Reformer" obviously NEVER read the Gospels or Revelation which shows how nasty, vile, vindictive, cruel, capricious, malicious, malignant, argumentative and basically insulting the Jesus was really was. The alleged conflicts he had with 'the Pharisees" or "the Jews", when you analyze them are LESS about "the Law" and more about his cruelty towards his own disciples and how he was gaslighting others. And don't get me started on Paul.

[@salembuckeye9030]

A gift we gave our daughter is to not pollute her mind with beliefs through child brainwashing. She gets to make her own decision as an adult.

[@BeheadedKamikaze]

I think the better gift is hidden in your second sentence: "She gets to make her own decision". You gave her the gift of skepticism ❤

[@davidmccarroll8274]

@@salembuckeye9030 what is the difference between education and brainwashing .Answer whether you agree with what is being taught or not !!! The moral let them learn more and then make their own mind up !!!

[@salembuckeye9030]

@@davidmccarroll8274 Disagree. Learning facts in school is different than learning myths that become embedded in their emotional psyche. No one fears eternal burning in hell because they disagree with a biology fact. Big difference.

[@davidmccarroll8274]

@@salembuckeye9030 I wonder what you would think if you had the privilege of meeting Ian McCormack from new Zealand .( The Jelly Fish man ) You can either check his documentary about his life or watch the film ( The Perfect Wave ) your choice .all the best !!!

[@theStrayKat1980]

Unfortunately, we all live in a world that is DEFINED by religious beliefs. Comparative analysis of religion should be taught to all children. Alongside logical sceptical thinking, in terms they can understand. To leave it the hands of someone you opted out of educating is not admirable.

[@koenigcochran]

"Magicked himself back from the dead because he's his own father" killed me

[@craigwallace4560]

Clueless. Talk to people who know about Christianity...just listen for a few minutes. Its not complicated.

[@lnsflare1]

​@@craigwallace4560So you don't think that God the son and God the father are the same person, or do you just not believe that Jesus came back from the dead because of his divinity (or possibly at all)?

[@craigwallace4560]

@@lnsflare1 As the scripture explains, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are to be considered one. One God. But 3 eternal persons. Jesus is not the Father no. But he is to be considered equal with God. I can pray to the Father, to the Son, or to the Holy Spirit, it makes not difference. They are one God. That does not exist in human nature, so hard for us to understand. But, its clearly taught and much evidence for all of the above.

[@lnsflare1]

@@craigwallace4560 So what you're saying is that he is God, who is his father, therefore he is his father, which is why he is able to come back to life after sacrificing himself to himself.

[@craigwallace4560]

@lnsflare1 you got it! Lol. No. Father, son, Holy Spirit. 3 independent beings that act in perfect inseperable union. John 5:19 the son only does what He sees the Father doing. As Humans we consider them the same. But they indeed are separate beings. Consider h2o existing as liquid, solid, n gas. That's not a great example. But does show God's nature throughout creation. Can't live without water. Without it we die. Yet it exists in 3 forms...hmmm

[@ArjunMitra-y2h]

Is this guy some kind of podcaster or something? His audio was AMAZINGLY clear for someone just calling in. Also, he's VERY SURE of his beliefs and points in the way a podcaster would be.

[@Imperial-Socialist]

Yeah he sounds like an apologetic

[@1020kerry]

He also has a very polished voice

[@queezle4277]

He's a pastor. Called Matt and Jimmy and got owned for twisting himself into a pretzel while cherry picking the bible

[@rik80280]

He sounds so much like Paul it’s hard to differentiate them as I am listening and not watching.

[@janetandtiff]

Even so-called progressive christians shy away from calling out harmful bible passages.

[@FearlessNimue]

When I told my Mom about losing my faith she asked if it was because of my intelligence. Basically... was it because I'm too smart to be fooled. I just said, "yup"

[@mattsadventureswithart5764]

I think your Mom is smart. It shouldn't be too difficult to explain the reasons why you lost your faith and help her deconvert.

[@craigwallace4560]

Not complicated. God is real, just like your invisible thoughts are real. So is invisible oxygen. He created you. All the body systems...not hard to figure we are created. God loves you...He's your heavenly father...just like mommy and daddy love you. He loves His kids. Punishment or sin is a spiritual law. Like gravity. Can not like it. Can ignore it and pretend. But, it's not changing. Gravity is not biased. It's happening. Same with payment/punishment for sins. Can accept the payment from Christ or pay it yourself when you die. Separation from God or enter into His presence. Its just not that complicated.

[@jamesduncan3673]

Loved it when Jimmy jumped in to get things back on track, and to hold the caller's feet to the fire.

[@BitchspotBlog]

More people need to do that. There's a difference between being polite and being a pushover.

[@φαρμακεία-πρωταρχικός]

@@BitchspotBlog”Gator don’t play no shit!” 🤣

[@woody4269]

Wtf....where did Jimmy come from? Like he was hiding in a closet.....then, boom!! Side note...t clarity in t sound is superb. 🍻

[@BitchspotBlog]

@@woody4269 He's running the boards off-camera.

[@woody4269]

@@BitchspotBlog 🍻

[@nina1608]

I grew up Catholic, and my confirmation instruction was conducted by a progressive Jesuit teacher. This did nothing for my God belief because he still had to teach all the contradictory stuff that's in the Catholic catechism. Even the most inclusive progressive Lutheran pastors still have to teach the story of original sin and redemption of mankind by the sacrifice of Christ and his resurrection. Christianity of any denomination is not redeemable by being "progressive".

[@TorianTammas]

progressive means belief in a fantasy of hell with eternal suffering but with fresh mint aroma.

[@alexkilgour1328]

I'm a recovering Catholic and attended a Jesuit High School, we also attended a Jesuit church (a rarity). They taught the Theology, but they also taught critical thinking, which is really what led me to leave the church.

[@MrBadintentionss]

@@alexkilgour1328 man, thats ironic, since it's a complete lack of critical thinking that çauses these problems.

[@alexkilgour1328]

@@MrBadintentionss Jesuits are the intellectuals of the Catholic Church

[@MikeOfKorea]

I joined the Episcopal Church after leaving the evangelical cults, but eventually I realized that all Christianism is flawed across the board. We were reciting the Nicene Creed one Sunday at church, and I realized I didn't believe anything in the creed. I put the prayer book down, picked up my jacket, and left church never to return.

[@zapkvr]

The church of england from where the alleged episcoal church proceeds is as bad a cult as any other religion. Do you know why the CoE came into existence?

[@sohu86x]

Yep, no matter how far you go, it is sourced from the same nonsense.

[@kevchard5214]

I love it when Shannon pulls out the daggers and is not afraid to use them.

[@madamsloth]

Same

[@craigwallace4560]

Daggers...omg...these points are so easy to refute. Let's get some truth. We are created. Trillion neurons in my brain. So much evidence. God is as real as your invisible thoughts or that invisible oxygen you breathe!

[@Andres64B]

I've been an Atheist all my life and an online atheist since there was an online. But it's still is absolutely mind-boggling every time I hear someone say that they are religious.

[@Dr.TJ1]

That’s a bit sanctimonious and you’re forgetting how difficult it can be for someone to throw off ideas they’ve been taught since before they could even understand the meaning of what they were being taught. Most religious people are indoctrinated at a very early age and even if they start to question their beliefs, may not being able to fully get rid of them. There’s also a fear factor of going to hell that plays a part. Fear plays a bigger part in many people’s lives than most people want to admit. Racism, transphobia, religious leaders, and Donald Trump all feed on fear. It would be wonderful if people would give up their fears, learn to think logically, and learn to just enjoy life, but I think that may be a long way off. At least religion has begun to wane in many parts of Europe. Hopefully, the waning of religion will spread to the U.S.

[@artistjoh]

@@Dr.TJ1It is hardly sanctimonious. I suspect that you are unfamiuliar with the dictionary definition of the word which is expressing things that are holy or sacred, often used ironically to suggest that it is feigned piety. Either way, this guy is an atheist and therefore nothing can be holy for him and he cannot be pious. Rather, he is expressing incredulity. All ideas about a supernatural world exist only because when you use the far more accurate word, magic, they don't like that because they know that magic is not real. Calling it supernatural gives them mental camoflage to obscure the fact that it is just the same plain old magic that they know is not real. Most of us are indoctrinated as children that Santa Claus is real, but most children reach a point where they can tell that it is impossible for sleighs and reindeer to fly, or for a fat man to get down the chimney and simply stop believing without any residual effects in adulthood. It astounds me that they don't come to similar conclusions about equally ludicrous things like a happy realm in the sky that cannot be seen or detected, or another one below ground that also cannot be detected. It is no different to flying sleighs and fat men that can visit all homes in just a few hours and get down chimneys. It really is mind-boggling that sane adults accept ludicrous religious claims, no matter how fearful they are. I also fear death, but it doesn't cause me to believe in magic.

[@nebtheweb8885]

@@Dr.TJ1 said _"religious leaders and Donald Trump all feed on fear."_ That guy had evangelicals marching in and out of the White House during his entire Nepotistic administration. Not just one or two, but a lot of well-known big-name evangelicals.

[@craigwallace4560]

Forget religion. Get relationship. God created us. Not complicated. Look at human body, it's incredibly complex. Food goes down my windpipe, I cough to save myself. Clearly these things are by DESIGN! He loves you, just like you love your kids. He's real, just like invisible oxygen and invisible thoughts are real. He has a plan for you! Let's talk more and get some truth!

[@craigwallace4560]

Don't be scared!

[@Trigger-xw9gq]

Finding the fundamentalists of one’s religion unpalatable, suggests something wrong with the fundamentals of that religion.

[@dancahill9585]

Well, I guess since I find the fundamentalists of basically all religions unpalatable, I guess I suspect there are problems with the fundamentals of all religions. It is seemingly the fundamentalists you have to worry about when it comes to violence and the lack of an ability to give and take in a civilized society.

[@FourDeuce01]

Ironically, no two people in any religion seem able to agree on exactly what those fundamentals are.😂

[@emmanarotzky6565]

There’s nothing fundamental about the things fundamentalists believe. It’s a deliberately misleading label, like how North Korea is called a Democratic People’s Republic.

[@tomsenior7405]

I love Christians. They are so much better than normal people. Normal people don't go around trying to save you (from eternal damnation in the fiery pits of an unproven, underground realm). Normal people do not know everything. Christians are the most knowledgeable of all the religions, (they think they know it all). Christians can read your mind and they know that you hate their particular version of their particular god, (Even though they never tell you what that god is). Christians are amazing.

[@freddan6fly]

U forgot /s

[@danielrussell9416]

And their smug sense of superiority.

[@tomsenior7405]

@@freddan6fly I didn't want to upset the lovely Monotheistic Christian movement by mentioning: El, Elohim, YAHWEH, Jehovah, El Elyon, Hallowed, Theos, Kyrios, Jesus, Immanuel, Yeshua, The Holy Ghost, The Holy Spirit, The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub and all the Demons and Angels that also have god-like powers, lest they get upset. I know that Christians are wholly peaceful and forgiving, but it only takes one bad apple...

[@thinkingaboutreligion2645]

And their god did cure the cataract ooooof Sam's mom!

[@tomsenior7405]

@@thinkingaboutreligion2645 Perfect. I chuckled at that one. Cheers

[@Byrvurra]

Having faith that the last place team in the league will win the superbowl is more reasonable than believing a magic man literally rose from the dead.

[@pokefound253]

And that if you believe the zombie man rose from the dead, he will let you rise from the dead too

[@EnglishMike]

Sure, but I'm not interested in arguing the point with them if they're not trying to legislate my life based on that belief.

[@AnnoyingNewsletters]

It also depends on when we're making that faith claim about the last place team. If we're talking about s team that borked it so bad last season that they got preferential treatment in the draft, but this season hasn't started yet, then yeah, it's _possible_ that the new composition of the team could be what turns it around for them this year. However, if the season is over, then the team with the worst record won't even be making to the playoffs, much less the Superbowl, to even get that shot. I live in Northeast Ohio, and I have no illusions that the Cleveland Browns will ever even make it to the Superbowl, much less win it. The last time they came close to something like that was before there even was a Superbowl. 😅

[@kahlilbt]

​@@AnnoyingNewslettersstill more likely that every other team will be disqualified than that a 3-days-dead carpenter is gonna get up, talk, eat, then float up into the sky

[@scottjohnson7248]

@@EnglishMike "Sure, but I'm not interested in arguing the point with them if they're not trying to legislate my life based on that belief." The problem with that is the fundamentalist Christians and wannabe theocrats quote the percentage of Christians in America to justify their policies favoring that religion. The "progressive" Christians bolster that number.

[@DRayL_]

I enjoy the input from both of them. I see more from Paul, so I will just say that I do find him to be one of my go-to/favorites in the community.

[@DarkHeresy77]

I liked this call. It highlighted the cognitive issues religious people don't actually know how to deal with.

[@norcodaev]

@@jsea321As a lifelong atheist who never had the concept of hell installed in me, as much as my parents tried, I wish you luck slowly finding your way out, friend.

[@craigwallace4560]

Bro, watch some David Wood, Sam Shamoun, David Turek, Nabil Quresi, omg... the apologists destroy this stuff. Its not even difficult. Lets talk.

[@cy-one]

@@craigwallace4560 Sure, let's talk. Give me *your best* argument *you think* proves the existence of specifically the god you believe in. Present a syllogistic argument with sound premises and valid structure. If it's not difficult, go ahead.

[@simonditomasso9868]

@@craigwallace4560I listened to all of them, but their arguments fall completely flat, and countless atheist yt channels point out their fallacious arguments

[@craigwallace4560]

@@simonditomasso9868 There is no way you listen to all of them absolutely no way. Let me know when you wanna get real

[@invisiblegorilla8631]

It's amazing the amount of effort Christians have to put into defining and thinking about what 'faith' is, in order to be able to believe what they want to believe and tell themselves it's ok to believe undemonstrable ideas & concepts.

[@Captain-Cosmo]

One of the more unspoken reasons for this is because the vast majority were indoctrinated as children. As adults, their child-based reasoning is no longer sufficient to support their beliefs, and it becomes necessary to buttress that belief. Some adults simply cannot achieve this, and they stop believing. Others want to believe so badly that they will accept bad reasoning, like reinforcing the foundation of a house with sticks.

[@neuroisis85]

That's all religions though.

[@AnnoyingNewsletters]

That was...fun. I'm glad Wes realized that his next part of the conversation was spicy, and that he should call back another time to address it specifically. 😄

[@madsli]

This has to be one of the clearest voices ive heard on a call-inn show. Clear as a crisp spring morning!

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Great response, Paul and Shannon! My question is - since you're in the same house, how come Shannon is in a bright, happy room and Paul looks like he's on a Borg ship waiting to be assimilated? lol It's the coffee table isn't it? It's always the coffee table...

[@PaulogiaLive]

nailed it

[@einyv]

He is the yin to her yang

[@TheUltrahypnotoad]

Paul put nails into the coffee table? He deserves assimilation.

[@gabyi3646]

This caller’s audio is so good

[@louisprado1048]

Thank God I'm an Atheist.

[@brianharris7243]

Wes would make a great bishop in the Church of England...picking and choosing the bits he likes. BTW his definition of faith is definitely outside Biblical definition.

[@evorock]

Which is great as we here are enjoying being the majority now! Proud British secularist here!

[@kimmcdonagh6756]

Oh, no it is not. In general, I don't mind atheists, they have many good ideas and values. But you are just being as hateful toward a Christian because of a label as fundamentalists are against atheists

[@ZenWithKen]

The thing is, no amount of logic applied to show belief in a god is nonsensical, matters. Like Wes said, he desires a god to be real. For him, it boils down to the feels and screw the logic.

[@stevencurtis7157]

Faith is not the other side of the line, it's the rug draped over ignorance that humanity decided was a good idea before civilization. Skepticism is rolling up the faith rug and looking at what's really under there.

[@axer3515]

Paul is right. I call this the "Pick your Jesus Era" in Christianity. You don't change your behavior, you change your denomination. If they tried to enforce the old way there would be many less Christians today.😮

[@dsarcevic]

Shannon at 8:51 saying "Highlnander" and Paul's prideful smile is golden. that's why I subscribe to this channel. "There can only be one."

[@thesuccessfulone]

"if you want fireworks in this call, I don't think you're being intellectually honest" Do you even know what that phrase means, Wes?

[@26beegee]

I have never heard a coherent, reasonable reason why someone chooses to believe Christianity is real. It generally comes down to fear. What a stressful way to live. I couldn’t find a reason to maintain the fantasy in the face of truth and I just didn’t have the will power or emotional strength to keep up the charade. I was hit in the face with reality and could no longer deny it.

[@francescaerreia8859]

Many people buy into it when they’re young and just hold on tight. Since they’ve believed in it since before they knew almost anything else about the world, it’s as real to them as anything real is to you and me. So it’s not about fear or anything else for many who hold it like that, it’s just that it not being true is totally inconceivable. They literally can’t grasp the possibility.

[@TorianTammas]

@26beegee - Social costs, it is easier to pretend like everyone else pretends around you.

[@26beegee]

@@TorianTammas After my daughter died the cost of maintaining the charade was just too great for me. The emotional drain in dealing with this ongoing grief leaves me with no reserves. Even more, was the abandonment by those I thought would be supportive. I had nothing to lose by accepting the truth, it is only make believe and that takes a lot of energy to maintain.

[@kimmcdonagh6756]

I honestly do not care if you are an atheist or not; but I grew up in a mainstream Christian branch that had definite beliefs, but would probably qualify as progressive. There was no fear taught or inferred there.

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Yes, christianity is a fear based religion...main reason I hate it so much.

[@johnnehrich9601]

I saw this on the full-length "Line" but don't remember the details. But the title under a picture of Shannon needed no further explanation. PS - thanks to both of you for all your hard work over the years.

[@tomsmith7742]

Ya gotta love Wes. He thinks talking snakes and parting the Red Sea is too stupid to believe- but a god-man rising from the dead is perfectly acceptable.

[@ImminentDebacle]

This guy has the best audio (mic) I've ever heard on any of these shows.

[@troelsvestergaard6644]

God is speaking through him.

[@davidfitnesstech]

Another great convo. The *smile on Paul's face* at the end killed me.

[@calldwnthesky6495]

i know this is 10 months ago but it was still fun when the caller says "yes i agree (with Paulogia) that we need to have reasons ( for what we believe)... there needs to be reasons to have faith" i did the equivalent of rolling my eyes and found that Paulogia was doing the exact same thing. thank heavens there are people out there who think like i do... who are quick to identify the BS. Paulogia is better at this than i but we were on the same page exactly when the caller made that statement. thanks for what you do Shannon and Paulogia and all the movers and shakers on youtube who promote skepticism and rational thinking and calling religious BS out whenever it rears its ugly head

[@starlaminde8436]

Thanks to Jimmy for leading more to skepticism which is why I tune in.

[@lulolie]

15:52 Shannon's face and noise of incredulity at that ridiculous statement had me dying of laughter

[@PhilipLeitch]

This is a lesson in "how to not answer the question asked and answer the question you want to answer." And I don't think he's even aware he's doing it.

[@Superman679]

I think he knows that, that's what he's doing and probably records his calls and then sends them in to The Republicunt party so he can be their representative in his state, Call it his audition tape. "Look at how good I am at answering questions by not answering them" Or as you said answering the question they want to answer rather than the question that was asked...lol

[@FourDeuce01]

He probably doesn’t care whether he’s doing it.

[@madamsloth]

​@@Superman679😂

[@johnendalk6537]

I shared that same belief throughout maybe the 2 years before I became an Atheist. Lots of it is reading between the lines of the stories in the Bible, pretending to know what Jesus meant despite not explicitly saying it. It was with doubting the resurrection that all of it ended up crumbling, like a house of cards. Paulogia played a big role in that. Thanks!!

[@PaulogiaLive]

I'm so glad you found your way out. Thank you.

[@dalecs47]

Believe in my Jesus. Good. Now you need to listen to every thing I say, without question. You need to do what ever I tell you to do, without question. You need to give me money, without question. Good, now I will allow you to go to heaven and have your salvation.

[@melodyyoung9640]

Hi, I'm a generational atheist. My ancestors had some relationship with Christianity but my relationship is extra overtime pay on holidays and sales on chocolate after. I feel like listening to callers is no different than reading about remote tribes who sacrifice animals or crystals and moon phases. I watch these to understand my fellow humans but it all sounds so absurd. I applaud the channel but I have trouble thinking of callers as peers. I don't know everything, I would never pretend to. Maybe the whole universe is some alien kid's science project. So I guess my comment is the appreciation for the hosts who work on the front lines. Your patience is wonderful.

[@CatDaddyGuitar]

That's the progression I took.. Evangelical to progressive to diest to atheist.

[@EnglishMike]

I went from progressive Christian to meh to atheist.

[@MacLaw3084]

Great audio quality on this one.

[@alan-ferguson]

I was in a "progressive" or "liberal" Christian denomination for 55 of my now nearly 60 years (where I was also an atheist since age 15). Someone, perhaps Forrest Valkai, has referred to these denominations as "making God in their own image," and I think that's exactly right. By couching their faith in the "the bible is a product of a historical time and political place" that must be taken in context, Forrest's claim is exactly right. No matter how much one tries to reinterpret the book, it provides absolutely zero evidence of any supernatural being. And, if we spent our lives living them to the fullest and loving our loved ones fully in the here-and-now rather than assuming that some afterlife will be better, we fail to live the best life possible. Thanks to The Line and the other atheist channels for the great work!

[@pavld335]

"I have faith in the resurrection" is a strange thing to say.

[@JCTheSniper15]

The double candian always makes me feel good with the number of "aboots".

[@bernardleger8478]

Hope doesn’t equate faith! That’s a fallacious statement.

[@L_o_c_a_l_G_u_y]

I love these two so much. God, i just wanna sit down with you two and a bottle of wine and talk about stuff. ❤

[@jacobpaces9800]

Anytime I can see Paul and Shannon talking it out is a good time for me. A nice hold me over view before we can get to another hammy new year!

[@finestPlugins]

Make sure to bring your own coffee table though

[@L_o_c_a_l_G_u_y]

@@finestPlugins ??? They do not own one??

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

​@@L_o_c_a_l_G_u_yPauliogia's allergic to them. Or something like that.

[@kennethsteinfield6104]

“I don’t mean to waste your time,” he says. Epic fail!

[@rickwilliams7431]

*_Salvation By Luck Of Birth_** ;* As most Christians become believers because they were raised in an environment where belief in Jesus was accepted as fact, this would by necessity exclude everyone that was _not "lucky enough" to be born into the correct religion or version of Christianity._

[@wizardsuth]

There's a comic in which a teacher points to one branch on a tree diagram showing the divergence of about a hundred sects of Christianity and says, "So this is where our movement came along and finally got the Bible right" to which a student replies, "Jesus is so lucky to have us".

[@danwatson171]

10:12 Would dead relatives feel like they’re doing jury duty when they have to show up for descendants they barely recognise now?

[@PervySage13]

It is crazy how utterly insane people sound when they start describing Jesus rising from the dead and if you believe hard enough you can too! Lmao 🤣

[@PeerAdder]

Not to mention the zombies.

[@AvaEFF]

I kept thinking Wes was one of the hosts because his audio quality was so good 😂

[@mccsnackin]

Hurray for willful ignorance. Hey atleast this guy’s being fairly honest about it 😂

[@adamrhodes123]

Gotta say though, his call quality is good, almost the same level as the hosts.

[@donepearce]

I speak as an Englishman who has never had any kind of religion. I simply don't understand moderate religion. If I believed for an instant that my fate throughout eternity depended on what I think or do now, my entire life would be consumed by getting that right. And of course I would be adhering to the tenets of every religion on earth, because I have no way of knowing which religion, if any, is the right one.

[@kimmcdonagh6756]

Because moderate religion is NOT about heaven and hell. It's about creating the best world here through love and service to others. Even research has shown religion and prayer has positive results on mental health and community. People tend to seem to need a belief; without a positive system, young men are gravitating toward Andrew Tate, pick-up culture , consumerism I don't care if you want religion or not....but there are huge advantages to moderate religion.

[@donepearce]

@@kimmcdonagh6756 you are talking nonsense. The healthiest societies are the ones with least religion, like Scandinavia. And studies do not show a positive link between religion and mental health. You only need to look at the USA and its link between Christianity and the abject lunacy of republicanism.

[@jonnawyatt]

​@@kimmcdonagh6756 But religion is not needed to make the world a better place. And often religion makes people's lives awful. Control and abuse and cruelty is religion. And interfering.

[@emmanarotzky6565]

@@jonnawyattA religion or denomination is only as good as what its people DO. If they work to create a better world here and now, then it’s a good religion/denomination. If they try to control other people and let their leaders molest kids, then it’s a bad religion/denomination. You don’t NEED a religion to be good, but religions can be good. Some people really do thrive on religion and it helps them be better people and form a community that works together to help the disenfranchised. Meanwhile some people find religion and it actively makes them worse people.

[@pelotonpro048]

When the caller began his apologetics schpeel, Shannon just smirked. She knows that's right in Paul's wheelhouse and she let him take it. Shannon's, "stastical analysis," takedown on a call several months ago was the best response to a theist that I have ever seen on KZbin. The two together are viciously effective.

[@vbnet01]

Spot on. Progressive Christianity almost by definition is constantly shifting & asking questions - it is rarely settled down on clear claims. The few times it does, it aligns with fundamentalist Christianity, so answers to fundamentalists adequately addresses what progressives would propose. I mean, William Lane Craig is a "progressive Christian" compared to a significant chunk of evangelicals, and we've seen how that goes.

[@kimmcdonagh6756]

Did you grow up in a fundamentalist or strict religion? Because I don't understand why you feel a valid religion has to have settled down & clear claims......however, I've found people who grew up fundamentalist constantly need that. I grew up in a mainstream Christian denomination that probably qualifies as progressive. It had some set beliefs, however, the focus was on developing your faith which is the understanding of and PRACTICE of love and service in the community Real faith is the practice of love and service....why are clear cut dogmas necessary????????

[@emmanarotzky6565]

⁠@@kimmcdonagh6756Exactly. Why should anyone expect or want settled, clear cut dogmas in a world that’s always changing and about which we’re constantly learning?

[@Petticca]

@19:00 Whooo listen to the desperate dodging of the question going on. This is such ridiculously obvious intellectual dishonesty being engaged here. He knows damned well that the point of Paul's question is very damaging, so he's gotta dance around trying to pretend he's reasonably addressing the question by throwing out these caveats. Marvelous.

[@cicerojones9248]

You know, this is why we get thousands of people outside a courthouse praising a friggin criminal as the messiah. Because they are willing to believe shit that makes them feel good without any facts or supporting evidence. It's a huge wound in humanity.

[@cicerojones9248]

@@craigwallace4560 I've got eye-witness testimony for Muhammad ascending to heaven, and For batman saving gotham. I didnt come from nowhere. It came from men who had a monetary interest in convincing people the story is real and that they were the chosen people to spread the word. Look at the vatican its a literal city of gold. Money and power are very simple motivations to lie about stuff like christ, hell, and heaven

[@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279]

​@@craigwallace4560literally there are just stories that theists say are eye witnesses. That is all you have.

[@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279]

​@@craigwallace4560it spread for the same reason every other religion that spread spread. Being adopted by the current strongest imperial conquering power. Why is islam increasing in adherents at present...must be because it's true? Just go and study what other religions, both dead and live ones, see what they claim and discover that they have the same level of bad evidence for them that Christianity has. Stories and someone telling you that lots of other people saw something... honest they did.

[@craigwallace4560]

@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279 you clearly have not looked at the evidence. Jews n Christians...dozens n hundreds of witnesses. Dozens of books, writings, documents. Muslims...one dude claiming to have revelation and others writing about it 300+ yrs after the fact. Not during the life times of the witnesses. Unlike Christ followers n witnesses. It's not even close. Muslim population significantly declining in the west btw. They don't stick with it. And they have less n less kids, families smaller. Lots going on in Muslim communities in the West.

[@acason4]

I see why Matt got irritated & hung up on this clown. The guy literally described motivated reasoning.

[@timlenord1]

Isn't that the doubting Thomas guy?

[@zodfanza]

Matt probably was debating whether one can choose to believe (he doesn't believe people choose what they believe) and whether one can actually call faith/belief a virtue.

[@ryngrd1]

🔥You see, why do you have to resort to calling him a clown? That's clear cut hate right there and it's wrong. Jesus teaches love and acceptance, which is right. This is exactly why the Christian mindset is superior to the athiest mindset 🔥

[@acason4]

@@zodfanza I agree with him, but that’s irrelevant to the point nor is it what the call was about. Matt wasn’t talking about doxastic voluntarism.

[@acason4]

@@ryngrd1 I called him a clown cause it’s TRUE! That’s why the atheist mindset is superior to the Christian mindset. You’re emotional & are willing to believe things for bad reasons, whereas I’m not. Take your 🔥emoji & get prodded. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@tedmoy]

Holy shit! Shannon! I need to subscribe now

[@dethspud]

Progressive Christians are more cultural Christians than anything else in my experience. Also, as Shannon alludes, they are not the problem in terms of harming others through regressive legislation, etc.

[@EdwardHowton]

That's the kind of situation where I think it's entirely acceptable to use quote marks around "christian". They're cultural "christians". They don't know, do, or say anything actually Christian-y but they _say_ they're christian because they don't know any better. Like Pordan Jeterson's whole nonsense about how people who aren't in jail are Acting Christians(tm), except in reverse and actually correct. The harm such people do is that they provide cover for all the more directly harmful "people", in the form of artificially inflating the perceived ranks and also holding some misguided view that "being a christian"(tm) is a good thing. They're ideological human shields. Sort of like weird Elon Musk fanboys who jump to defend him from valid criticism. Which is.. gross and sad. But it's pretty commonplace; I was told about the whole 'god' thing as a kid and was forced to do the basic minimum cult rituals by my parents on the off chance I'd ever want to get married in a church some day, but I never actually believed any of it. Despite that, I still thought the people who opted out of the Religion class in school were _weird_ for "needing a special Moral class separate from everyone else". I was a "christian" in the sense that I thought everybody in my culture participated in this pantomime called christianity, and boy oh boy was I shocked when I found out _no actually some people really believe this crap._ In high school. From a youth pastor.

[@dancahill9585]

Or maybe Progressive Christians understand that if follow Jesus' 2 most important commandments, most of the rest of the religion is just not that important. You look at a lot of Evangelicals hung up on Paul's writings or the Old Testament and you wonder if they completely missed the message of the Gospels.

[@kj_H65f]

​@@dancahill9585why is any of the Bible important? I don't know why any of it matters TBH. Either the Bible is worth accepting in whole or it's worth dismissing in whole.

[@kj_H65f]

​@@dancahill9585one can pick and choose good things out of the Bible without accepting the religion of Christianity but I'm not so sure one can honestly and truthfully do the opposite. Why would Jesus matter if he's not actually the Son of God sent as a sacrificial lamb for the sins of mankind that Adam has passed down to all of humanity? It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone (aside from the cultural argument) would call themselves Christian if they don't accept the entire mythology.

[@kj_H65f]

Jesus simply is irrelevant if one doesn't accept the Old Testament. Original sin doesn't exist. Sacrificial appeasement with innocent blood for an all powerful and all knowing God doesn't exist. None of it matters really.

[@hakonberg8003]

If a person at the peak of his/her intellectual ability made a spreadsheet or whatever with all aspects of all religions....including no religion...and THEN made a choice, I'd be more likely to respect it. If the person on the other spends his/her life defending the religion he/she was indoctrinated with from the age of 1 (usa style....) my respect dwindles.....

[@wizardsuth]

"It depends on whether you want to live forever." -- Does wanting something to be true make it true? If I fell off a cliff I'd want to be able to fly, but would that mean I could?

[@jeff6660]

Wes wants it to be true...that's called leading the evidence where you want it to go, which is a logical fallacy.

[@EdwardHowton]

It was a fierce competition, folks, but we have a winner for Biggest Lie Wes Told In That Entire Debacle Of An Attempt At Converting His Betters. The votes are in, the judges have agreed, this call's Biggest Lie From Wes is: "I don't mean to waste your time."

[@HowBoutDemBoyzz]

Ah he wasn't that bad. He seemed genuinely trying to be respectful of them and their time. Even if he may have had some ulterior motive for calling in.

[@FourDeuce01]

Most religious apologists do nothing but waste people’s time. They don’t even try to prove their imaginary god exists, which is funny since that’s the only thing they NEED to do.😈

[@EdwardHowton]

@@HowBoutDemBoyzz Respectful? He called them both liars multiple times. Were you not listening?

[@BeheadedKamikaze]

Kudos for having such a productive conversation with Wes. It doesn't always go that way, but you two are the dream team ❤‍🔥

[@ronthered138]

The quiet "rational" ones always amuse the most. They are also the most chilling. They are the ones that will calmly explain to you how the flames will cleanse you as you float up to heaven, or down to hell. At 18:35, Wes starts to tapdance like Shirley Temple.

[@kimmcdonagh6756]

Yeah, um....no. Progressive religions don't discuss hell. It's NOT a widespread idea in the Bible just as ideas about abortion & homosexuality are not big dogmas IN THE BIBLE. These are fundamentalist obsessions.

[@salembuckeye9030]

Secular states and secular nations are less violent, use less welfare, have fewer teen pregnancy, and live longer.

[@mytmouse57]

In the end, we’re all just like the blind guys touching different parts of the elephant. Just hope you’re not the one feeling the sweaty nutsack and thinking you’ve found yourself a humidifier.

[@scambammer6102]

Nope. Speak for yourself

[@mytmouse57]

@@scambammer6102 So what you're saying is... I'm the guy on the nutsack. Damnit! I should have known ...

[@jerrylanglois7892]

Christians, like this guy, love to use '' jesus said ''. We don't know what jesus said because he left not one written word and had not one eyewitness so, everything he said was nothing more than hearsay, said by people who never knew him.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Asking if I'm really sure Jesus didn't resurrect is like asking are you really sure Hercules never killed the 7 headed snake monster that could regenerate heads?

[@TorianTammas]

Sure Hercules did perform the 12 works and killed the Hydra as the book says so.

[@cambriaofthevastoceans6721]

"You wanna talk about people going after evangelicals, I'm your Huckleberry" 😂

[@larrypicard8802]

I'm surprised Wes didn't quote Paul in his definition of faith.It's classic.

[@Zikiru]

Progressive Christians give me this vibe that they want to be sincerely good people. But that fear of death is still an iron grip and thus, hold on to the label.

[@chrispysaid]

Ohhhh boy, you can see both Paul and Shannon's eyes glaze over when he's giving his reason for believing in God, doing their best to just sorta let him say the thing they've heard thousands of times. They have to be so bored of this conversation by now.

[@hikarustarr]

paul, i didn't realize you had merch! i definitely need that glass.

[@MrRobbish]

now there's an oxymoron: 'progressive christianity'

[@FourDeuce01]

If they were honest they could call it “trying to put new spin on 2000+ year old fairy tales”.😂

[@TorianTammas]

Fairy tales with better more progressive fairies.

[@Vinnymanvinny1]

To be fair I have met progressive Christians. When my wife was a Christian her church had a gay pastor and everyone in the church with it. Her church also believed in all roads lead to God so to speak

[@MrRobbish]

@@Vinnymanvinny1 pedophile, abusive priests probably count as “progressive” too yeah? Now there’s progression.

[@emmanarotzky6565]

Progressive Christianity is just normal Christianity where you try to act like Jesus. Conservative “Christianity” now, there’s an oxymoron: doing the exact opposite of what Jesus would do in any situation while still claiming the label of “Christian” for social clout.

[@gornser]

Love how Wes ran away in the end

[@tremas3329]

I havent fully trusted a chair since i was 16, sat in one and it broke and literally stabbed me in the back with a shard of plastic. Just felt like sharing since it always amuses me when Christians use that as an example of trust to compare to faith.

[@tremas3329]

@@craigwallace4560 Late on the troll train, i see. Regardless, you are using faith as a synonym for trust, when it isnt. And my little story was a direct refutation of trying to use those two words to describe the same things. I dont have faith my chair wont break. I have a measure of trust proportional to my experience with the chair(in my case far less trust after my incident) that it wont break. But i acknowledge it could. Just as I trust i will wake up tomorrow but acknowledge I may not. Trust my keyboard works, even though some of the keys dont work all the time. If you are using faith to describe these things, then you arent using it the same way most others use it. And is a tacit admission you may be wrong about god being real, so points for honesty in that I suppose.

[@tremas3329]

@@craigwallace4560 oh, i see you are just hitting everyone in the comments section of this video with pretty much the same spiel. Not worth my time, have a good day.

[@randellmathews5961]

More Shannon and Paulogia together.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Shannon is the Queen of FAFO! Come to her with some BS and find out!

[@EdwardHowton]

Faff About, Find Out.

[@paulrichards6894]

i thought she was brilliant on here ....paul was great as well

[@travisleabeck2572]

When i was 9 I decided to go to church of my own accord after seeing so many of the children in my apartments hopping on the bus on Sundays. When I was a kid my mother never forced religion on us. She read to us from a children's bible because she wanted us to have some understanding of God, but she wanted our views to remain open. I remember being 6 sitting in the back of the car and asked her "Where is Jesus?". Her response shaped my spiritual understanding forever. She took a moment to think and said "he's in your heart and everywhere around you". That formulated my core belief that God is all-pervading and that we were never separated from "Him". I've had many spiritual and divine moments in my life. When I joined the church they put me into the children's classes. It was all Love and all the good stuff. Had a great time. The day I turned 10 they said I could no longer attend the classes with the young people I had come to love and immediately forced me to go to the adult sermons. It took me all of one sitting to see the difference. They were no longer preaching the love and acceptance and were hellbent on the fire and brimstone. Never went back. Been to church here and there when invited. Had many great talks with preachers and gone real deep into the nature of reality. If you ask me what I believe in I say "Everything". All religions have a piece of the truth. I used to say "I'm spiritual, but not religious", but now I classify myself as an Omnist. I believe in multiverse to the infinite degree so in some realities we're all God. In some there are no gods. In some it's all virtual reality. In all of them it doesn't really matter. I think one of the most human experiences is to have a singular moment where you question if there is a God. I feel it's good to believe, but at the end of the day when you ask those questions of the universe you had your conversation with God. You can come out of it a Christian, Bhuddist, Hindu, Agnostic, or an Atheist. At the end of it all it's one big long running joke that we just don't get the punchline to yet.

[@angryboxingfan]

When I was 6 Santa didn’t leave presents so I asked my mum where’s Santa? She said Santa is in my heart. That formulated my core belief that Santa is all pervading and that I’m never separated from him.

[@travisleabeck2572]

@@angryboxingfan lmao you hardcore internet atheists are really the biggest, most insincere trolls. Just as annoying as the "Jesus die for your sins, repent now" comments found posted in random YT conversations. End of the day it doesn't matter. We either all end up believers or there was nothing really to it and billions of people throughout history were just a little crazy. There is no singular eternal pit or pearly gates. There's an infinite number of both along the way. In the end you've experienced every single conceivable or inconceivable version of yourself and done the same for every other pair of shoes you could step in. In the end we have a big family dinner, then we do it all over again

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

I was quite the progressive Christian growing up. Ended up leaving due to theology, not ideology.

[@thomasolson8417]

Sorry, I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Did you mean to write "leaving due to the theology"?

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

@@thomasolson8417 thank you for pointing it out, I hadn't noticed

[@thomasolson8417]

​@@Fernando-ek8jp no worries. I wanted to be sure I understood. Technology can be good and bad. 😂

[@chriskelly3481]

How has this caller got the very best call in audio quality that I have ever heard, EVER?!?! 😮 (He's got a glorious voice too. 😂)

[@nagranoth_]

Eh, no Wes, the Jesus character explicitly states the old law remains.

[@ChristianIce]

That was a long, convoluted and confused way to describe "wishful thinking."

[@adamgentry6239]

Why did this guy call? He didn’t say anything.

[@mytmouse57]

In all honesty, as someone who isn’t a Christian or an atheist, but understands both reasonably well - they didn’t say much either that wasn’t completely predictable.

[@MaxtheFinger]

Good call! Wes seems to be a good guy. And yes, I'm 100% percent sure that the resurrection did not happen. Thanks guys! 😁