Orchestral Programming: The BIG Mistake Most People Make

[@FireAngelOfLondon]

Yes! This is a really useful reminder. Another tip I was given was to go regularly to concerts where orchestras play; go hear Beethoven's seventh or some other orchestral piece. You have little hope of mixing your virtual orchestra to sound real if you don't know what a real orchestra actually sounds like. The live sound of an orchestra playing quietly forces you to stay quiet to hear it properly, then when most of a 90+ piece orchestra lets rip at full volume it will blow you away with its power. Live orchestras go from subtle to really loud, the virtual version should do the same or you are missing out on one of your most useful expressive tools.

[@chriscorey8125]

I heard somewhere you’ve heard a real pianissimo until it’s performed by a 100 piece orchestra

[@NickTwohig]

Great point re: listening levels. I think people would be surprised at how great certain instruments can sound at a mezzo forte tonality at the appropriate volume, and not just constant triple forte tonality at the same volume.

[@LukasLindner]

yeah. one important point to remember here is: with real instruments, dynamics do NOT mean volume in the first place, but different timbres/sound qualities. A trumpet playing ff with the fader at -6db or whatever will never sound the same as a trumpet playing mp with the fader at 0db.

[@GarryKnight]

i had to turn my speakers up just to hear your voice, so when you played that loud bit just after the 5 minute mark, it certainly wasn't my pupils that dilated! 😳

[@LeeGee]

I've been asking ppl about monitor level for years. Thanks for being the one to answer and thanks for making sense.

[@You4Final]

"emotion is not just volume, it´s the difference in volume" GENIUS!!!! Sir, you leave me speechless. Respectful grettings

[@hideoushiss]

New video! Obviously this was bound to happen! Thanks Christian - I always admire your insights and fresh approach to different concepts.

[@JohnSk82]

Spot on mate.A rule of thumb for me in my Cubase template is -6db or -8db Pre-Gain on all instruments (or I use the VU for doing it on all instruments individually in Kontakt if needed ) but with all levels SMASHED (cc1/cc11) to gain stage. And then have the actual volume knob on my interface fixed at all times .In that way I'm never clipping my bus and I can use the whole dynamic range of any instrument and hear everything correctly.When you print your sessions with that method everything sounds better and ''obviously'' natural 🙂

[@johnmarcgreen]

This is great and inspiring work, and your video on expression controllers prompted me to purchase one here in the US, made in North Carolina (brand "AMC3", it's great). Mine is similar to the one you made the video about: 3D printed, 3 sliders. After loading up some instruments, it was easy to figure out how to assign the sliders, and I was able to do exactly what you described in this video. It really makes a huge difference as you said. Very glad I found your channel and company.

[@kamalengels]

Such great perspective! Very grateful for this simple but effective advice!

[@jcjacques]

Magnificent, Magnificent demonstration. As a classical singer, I know how essential dynamics are, especially when we have a real orchestra in front of us. And I know that even when musicians play hard, it requires a physical commitment on their part that sometimes borders on discomfort (forcing the deployment of protections). And I admit that I myself neglected a little too much the "volume (expression)" fader of a certain library of samples that you know well... Your video here gives me back the very lively desire to rework with this dimension that will bring me a lot. Thank you, really!

[@7willymak]

This is an absolutely brilliant video. Thank you so much!!! Best most informative vid ive seen on this subject in years. And so many vids have been made on it.

[@robertostiak]

Thanks! Great soft mix on the video too! I instinctively matched the volume to the VO at the begging, and the dynamics of the strings were perfect (from audible to aggressive). Btw. volume/monitoring quality is essential for my composing, am I the only one? E.g. on headphones, I never truly know what makes music great to me, if it's an arrangement problem, a mix problem or something else - I just want it to sound cool and speakers helps so much in all aspects - to focus Another thing is listening to movies on TV when the kids are sleeping. I hate big dynamics then - like most non-audio normals :P I appreciate a skillfully compressed mix than or the headphones.

[@JoshuaLoveofficial]

Always incredibly helpful

[@daslepistes]

Sounds very simple, yet it is an incredible nuance that can completely transform how you make music and improve you immensly. This is something I've been struggling as well, I will definitely give it another try on my next piece and try to implement it more mindfully.

[@------YeahOK------]

Great video man! I just wondered, what are your two faders? Volume and something else?

[@e7702]

My guess is volume and dynamics (what you would normally use the mod wheel for to control CC1)

[@pianodancebandkentcounty]

I have the same question.

[@JamesGilbertMusic]

I set my master volume at the 9 o'clock position and leave it. For my daw, notation software and other youtube videos it's just fine. For this video I had to turn it up to the 12 o'clock position just to be able to hear anything you were saying. For a few places I had to turn it up to the 2 o'clock position. Why was this video so low in volume?

[@bricelory9534]

Coming from the classical background, I would instinctively throughout all the compression rules standard tutorials promote because of this exact thing. Non-classical genres use arrangement and texture almost exclusively to create loudness and softness, and they've gotten to a point where they want the actual dB to not be that wildly different. But the loudness range of an orchestra - or even solo musicians and chamber music - is far wider than merely arrangement and texture would suggest, and so much of what a classical musician emphasizes and focuses on is all but lost when things are compressed beyond a very slight amount. Performers are capable of playing near to silently, and the need to make things loud absolutely ruins how it sounds and affects the listener. In short, be very light and disceening on how you compress and boost classical (or classically inspired) recordings. It might be best practice to bring out the quiet parts more, but it might end up actually killing the performance itself.

[@stevenwhite5907]

YES! I've been telling guitar and bass players (I'm a bassist) for MANY years: if you want to play more quietly, turn up your amp. It's the only way to maintain control of your dynamics and develop your sound.

[@CHARLIEH-df1qg]

Totally agree. I used to play with wind bands. And the trick is high volyme and learn to play quiet.

[@markcox5385]

Great video. 👍 When I teach piano and my students are practicing on an electric instrument I always get them to turn the volume up so that when they hit the thing hard it’s almost uncomfortably loud. They suddenly find they can play many more dynamic levels than they thought possible.

[@4kfreelance]

Tell me about! Got the volume on high listening to Classic FM during the quite parts to turning it down during the loud parts and worrying about neighbours. I wish someone can the question of how low in volume level can we go to still able to hear the quite parts playing back on a Bluetooth speaker to a mobile phone. It's a process that makes me tweak mixes to correct volume levels.

[@roberthenderson7062]

Great video. Fantastic to hear such a simple and clear explanation, you say you are -untrained-but you seem to have a vast experience. Very informative. I play trumpet so I know what loud is.

[@pinkdispatcher]

Yes, please, continue stating "the obvious". I learn something new everyday. And it's useful to me, even though I'm mostly a pop/rock live musician. Also interesting to note perhaps, why the recorder isn't in more widespread use anymore: volume and intonation are tightly coupled, so it is very very limited in dynamics, although in the right hands it can be a fantastically impressive virtuoso instrument. I am fascinated that currently my two preferred music channels are a by a media composer and a heavy metal producer.

[@joshstead6078]

My only question here would be: If the contention is that we're setting our speakers so quiet that we can't hear the really quiet levels, isn't that going to be true of the end listener as well? Then, when we turn the speakers up so that we can record and hear those very lowest levels are we not making something that the end listener won't be able to hear? I do love this in theory though, as I love music with a lot of dynamic quality, and when I was in uni the loudness wars were driving me completely crazy.

[@rickyhils]

Exactly! Gotta have a realistic speaker volume. My workflow starts with *each orch sampled instrument on the score* (say, vlns, vlas, ce, basses, flutes, clar, oboe, tpts, tbns, fr. hn, harp, perc, and any solo instruments) played from midi into separates wave files. That eliminates any midi timing issues later on. I will then have maybe 14 or so audio tracks. Using a realistic speaker volume I then follow my score and "play" each "instrument" volume (including e.q. settings) to match what I have on the score. That means at least 14 separate run throughs of the score, while "playing" the nuances from my slider or rotary pots and recording those changes.

[@antsteep]

One thing that throws me off is when I have to work on a cut of the film where the dialogue isn't mixed or the sound fx not completed. In the last film I worked on, the dialogue was still a mash of in camera mics, lapel and ADR. Total nightmare to get all those levels tamed enough to fit music into.

[@prod.lucasg]

really cool and helpful tutorial, thank you for the advice!

[@callecolliander]

Great stuff!

[@frankwalders]

This was obviously a very very good lesson, thanks.

[@MuzixMaker]

That’s an obvious comment

[@melvindurbuloid]

Excellent points...obviously...great tips for me, I need to pay more attention to this.

[@TheSoundConnoisseur]

You are for the aspiring film composer. Thank you bro. You are the best

[@boblimaorchestra]

🙏🙏🙏 it reminds me of how important it is to work with monitors. And those set to unpleasantly loud levels. I often compose with headphones on, mainly because of the neighbours;-) The dynamics with headphones are ridiculously limited especially for orchestral stuff and guitar work (probably also for everything else.). Hence with reduced dynamics, you would never hear the result of the action of the two controllers. I guess you never work with headphones, then?

[@andrewmusician]

This is good advice because it is the first thing you learn in mixing, mastering, and post. Monitor levels and monitor calibration. I would even take it a step deeper that I was taught from mixing and post: initial clip gain, or if composing, initial instrument volumes. I know everyone doesn't agree with it, but I live by the unity faders approach. Starting volume is such an important factor that changes your perspective no matter if mixing or mocking up. If one starts with volume problems and /or an unbalanced mix perspective, chances are it will only get worse or create more work the deeper you get into the project. This 100% applies to mock-ups because it can cause you to keep avoiding textures that might otherwise have sounded good. 👍 It gives you more room for creative balance decisions later on as well. Our ears love dynamic range. It is much more exciting than everything quiet or everything loud.

[@phaeraofficial]

Definitely a great advice! 🙏

[@TheSoundConnoisseur]

yes man! Level! I've felt it too loud at that level of expression and modulation. and I've questioned myself.

[@JRyanKern]

I did most of my programming with two faders (dynamic & expression), but in the current project I’m working on I realized that the vibrato adds a lot of volume when turned up on a library like Spitfire Chamber Strings. It doesn’t appear to always be the case, but in this case I did a performance and then adjusted, in order, vibrato -> dynamic -> expression. Expression was last for massaging more dynamics out into it and balancing within a section. Anyone else find this about vibrato?

[@JureJerebic]

1:35 in the writing phase or mastered? What kind of piece, classical music, modern neoclassical, trailer? How loud should the strings be in comparison to the rest of the composition? I don't think it's that simple

[@fransteeno]

Thank-you Christian. You have been a heavy weight bias that has affected my composing. I am also a heavy user of your string libraries and BBC. I Zappreciate the extra time and soul you put into these tutorials. I need to get a fader like the one you use.

[@WhoIsAlexElliott]

Golden Information

[@Garethbellamy]

Recommend a 2 fader controller that comes with a control script for ableton?. That is, the fader pair follows the track/instrument your working on, as opposed to midi mapping and its confined to that instrument...any thoughts/guidance, it maybe be obvious to most...oh darn the O word

[@laromai2245]

I'm not a string player, but I really like the dynamics, but, I'd like to be instructed about how to make the dynamic curves for string instruments. Some generic guidelines. As an organ player I really try to emphasize phrasing (a must with the dynamically "dead" pipe organ) but strings have so much more than phrasing to offer. But I just don't have the "feeling" to get it right without some guidelines. For individual notes, and for passages of notes, steepness at the start and steepness at the end of a passage or phrase etc. Are there any, ahem, "obvious" rules to follow here?

[@alleyway3215]

Great advice. While I'm proficient in theory, harmony and orchestration, volume levels have proven an ongoing struggle. I'll try sequencing at a higher volume.

[@mosstet]

I think I had the opposite problem with the last film. I constantly avoided FFF and ended up writing in the lower range of dynamics. When it got turned up there was a noise floor and bow sound 😅 The more I do this sort of work the more I realise that levels are everything...

[@0ccult1337]

very nice! consciousness amongst the loudness sea of huge amount of compression and lack of dynamic!

[@PullsTheTide]

I'm wondering what those 2 controllers are. Just listened on a mobile phone after waking up early.

[@reziahamed6654]

Controller 1 - Expression/Dynamics (Usually CC1) that takes you thru different layers of intensity levels of the 'instrument'.. Controller 2 - Main Volume (CC7)of 'that instrument' that moves along with a main anchor point of the overall composition.. (Eg: Vocals as illustrated here)... Hope this helps !👊🍻

[@PullsTheTide]

It does, thanks 😊

[@sveaism]

@@reziahamed6654No, they’re CC1 (dynamics) and CC11 (expression). CC7 is usually reserved by VST instruments for the main volume out slider and isn’t usually used for the instruments dynamic control.

[@pianodancebandkentcounty]

Same question here.

[@pianodancebandkentcounty]

CC1 can control any one of many MIDI parameters. In Cubase, CC1 defaults to modulation. Has anyone here seen an answer to the question here, from the author of this video? Thanks!

[@updown5238]

Wonderful thanks C

[@laynehoward2870]

This is one of those things were I go....Why the hell didn't I think of that!

[@LearnCompositionOnline]

Stage one: i dont need to read music , learn piano, and learn theory Stage two years later: wait, i need to move the faders ! 😂

[@morbidmanmusic]

yes, It does all become one thing. It use to be paper and pencil... so, as long as work gets done..

[@DavidJRobinson]

Hi Christian. Agree with you for orchestral writing. But, this all flies out the window if you combine this with a modern rhythm section. You then have to deal with a conflicting set of dynamics. One where the listener is expecting things to stay at a pretty consistant level. Very hard to get them working together well. j.

[@rickyhils]

Might this be like having the volume of a real orchestra coming from your speakers, so as to feel the dynamics from PP to FF?

[@mountaine]

Preach it! Good advice.

[@mellifluousfable]

A very interesting insight that probably should be ‘o’ but as you say, may very well not be and which certainly had me rethinking my set up. I have a couple of thoughts that are not technically related but I’ll put them here anyway: Do you still have the composition you made for the old scoring series. If so, can you finish it via Crow Hill with the live session as it was a shame that we never got to see the conclusion. I had an idea (which might work or not) for a Blagsheet that contained all the different articulations and maybe core techniques too if there’s room. Just a thought. Best of luck to the team for the year ahead.

[@paultumelty]

A video about how to set monitor levels would be really helpful. Theres a volume control on my monitors, one on the output on my interface, one in control room, one on the master fader, one on the track, one on the instrument, one in the channel pre amp……. I’ve never quite worked out the best way of managing these. Should the speakers and audio interface be at 0 and then turn everything else down so it doesn’t blow my head off. Should i lower the volume on the speakers and leave the interface at 0, or take that down as well ? So many volumes/levels!

[@rebeccaleek3852]

Thanks, Chris! Another helpful and inspiring video (obviously ;). Deltas in volume rather than levelled loudness - I love it and will give it a go with writing quietly. I really need to get myself a fader. Mind sharing what you use?

[@5ammy13]

Brilliant video. Really insightful and very well explained. With regards to the argument of 1 controller vs 2 controllers in my opinion solely depends on the library. Glass Strings is designed in such a way that the Mod Wheel controls purely dynamics and not volume, so having the Expression help with Volume is important. Something like Pacific Strings where the Dynamics and Volume are scripted together in the Modulation Wheel, just using the Mod Wheel is more than enough.

[@williambraddellcomposing5905]

When you say that you use two faders am I correct in presuming you're refering to cc1 and cc11? If so, how do you use them together, i.e do you maybe you cc11 to sorten the attack/rise of cc1 if that makes sense? It definitely sounded best when you used the two faders together so I'm just trying to understand how you make that work?

[@jimrogers7425]

Post production tends to work at a reference monitor level, and now (away from tape-based recording) music recording is doing somewhat the same. Use an LUFS meter on your DAW output to get a sense of nominal listening level against peak level. My monitor controller is set to a single level, which I use monitor trim and DIM to change level as I need to, but I continue to have one monitor reference level. This is a GREAT video, Christian, obviously! 😂

[@spengill]

bloody awesome!

[@pianodancebandkentcounty]

Can you tell me exactly which two parameters you are controlling, when you refer to using "two controllers? I assume one would be velocity, since we are talking about dynamics? What is the second one? Thanks!

[@paulmatthews2057]

Excellent as always, Christian 🎶🎹🎶

[@Thr3-Words]

This is indeed obvious advice, but I’ve never thought about it. Question: how did you land on your current keyboard? Was it the quality of the MIDI output? I’m on my fourth MIDI keyboard, and I can never get anything close to the granularity of volume you’re getting, even with the two sliders. Every keyboard seems to have huge gaps in the MIDI values. Just trying it out right now, it’s like cc4 to cc48, then just a sparse smattering of cc50 to cc72, huuuge wasteland between cc72 to cc92, etc. there’s been a variation of this bullshit on every keyboard I’ve had

[@LodvarDude]

In my main professional life (which is sadly not music), I've always taken on the role of being the one asking the"stupid" questions. In most cases I've been approached after say, a meeting or something, by one or several individuals and they all thank me. The sentiment is always the same; They all wondered about the same thing, but were too afraid to ask because of the fear of looking stupid. "The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute, the man who does not ask is a fool for life." Confucius was right.

[@ephjaymusic]

Your first point nailed it. You have to set the monitoring level to mimic the soundstage you'd get if you had an orchestra in front of you. People don't realise how loud orchestras can get, and also how the texture of the sound changes when they're hauling at _fortississimo_ 05:48 - that's the 3 f's 😉

[@kevinafflack]

Great episode and I fully agree that dynamic range is where the emotion lives. Is there a LUFS that you aim to peak at? And then is every cue mixed at a relative volume to that for the full score? I’ve asked this recently and some have said to mix everything cue at -23 LUFS or whatever and let the mix engineer sort it all out. You seem to me saying keep volumes relative to each other, which I prefer. Thx

[@rickyhils]

9:05 _"The fingers doing their "naughty" plucking work."_ That just sounds so very British. ha ha

[@MrKmusic7]

So, is this particular technique a patch by patch situation? It feels like reverse engineering limiting and gain staging. Either way, is this in context to the entire orchestra or section by section? Beause this method is rather new to me, I'm missing what happens when you combine all sections of the orchestra. If the strings are uncomfortably loud in your speakers than what will brass and percussion do? Blow out the cones? I promise I'm taking a go at you, I just would love a bit more explanation. I've been playing around with it since you posted and I'm also learning that my speakers can only take so much. Hope to see a reply. Thanks.

[@Drake21339]

Monitor calibration is everything. It's why Bob Katz came up with his K-System. Calibrate your mons for K-20 mixing when it comes to orchestral music and that will make a drastic difference.

[@docgify]

As a trained visual artist(sydney college of the arts) and someone who has since been an a list pop writer(lol ,I know that’s sad) we would not you variation of levels as “chiaroscuro”….does that help?

[@creativintent]

Thank you. It wasn't obvious to me. My take away is this: an orchestra has a very broad dynamic range and I need to adjust the way I listen while composing in order to hear it, and to get the most out of what an orchestra can do. Cheers! Obviously.

[@JonasSalvador]

Christian, how do you deal with the fact the the Nord Piano 3 doesn't transmit the full 0-127 velocity range? Do you expand the range within logic to reach all the way up to 127?

[@petel1201]

when I was using my dx7 as a controller for logic, I used the velocity processor plug-in to expand

[@kenvis6389]

Great stuff. I totally agree. This is how I usually work, but I use headphones so as not to bother my wife.

[@boptillyouflop]

Very cool and good to know! So it turns out that the "This goes up to 11" guy in Spinal Tap was right all along. 😸

[@stephenpower1475]

As a long-university lecturer, I have wasted my time posting on KZbin videos saying...stop saying 'obviously', we are here because nothing about this is obvious'. On the other hand, I've told psychotherapy students to always 'state the bleedin' obvious, because it may not be obvious to your client'.

[@smalltown2223]

We need an enormous wooden ship from you guys. Preferably a Schooner with little double glazed windows and baskets of Victorian mobcaps. Obviously.

[@wyshwood]

What surprises me, though, is how very expensive the controllers can be. Hundreds of pounds in some cases. So what is the difference between a £50 slider and a £300 on. Is it the throw, the feel, the accuracy? All of the above? Why haven't the big boys brought one out to match their sample instruments at an affordable rate, if it's so important? (And I know that it is) I play on an expression capable keyboard which is recorded to MIDI and then transfer to a sample based virtual instrument to tweak which gets me some of the expression you talk of. Another way of getting closer to the goal. Great content as always, thank you.

[@therealvbw]

I have a cheapo Akai MIDI-Mix. AFAIK the more expensive faders have a longer travel and more resistance, and some are electronically actuated so they can return to a previous position

[@jonasaras]

It can vary wildly. I recently went through trying a half-dozen MIDI expression pedals for my Nord Electro 2, with prices ranging from $30-$200. The Moog EP-3 worked like a real Hammond swell pedal. However, that same pedal when connected to my virtual instruments produced horrible stuttering that sounded like techno! Bottom line, make sure your vendor has a generous return policy.

[@trooperbooper9543]

I have scored an opportunity to score a game, since I'm not very experienced and there is not heaps of tutorials around, if you wouldn't mind making a video about some overall must know things to do with game music, I'd be so grateful. cheers.

[@_atinsy]

Are you gonna be back for Alien Isolation 2 😮

[@beatskool101]

obviously the volume on this video should have been higher, would be good to hear you mention just one db value the highest or the vox

[@beatskool101]

apparently YT has a new feature that messes with the audio, maybe it changed the sound?

[@ChrisMccarterMusic]

Man, you say obvious but I just had to do an album remix of my first soundtrack from the stems... I spent so much time automating volume, I'd clearly programmed most of the samples between whack and full whack. I shall not make that mistake again. Thank you!

[@ScratThunder]

the last joke got me good 🙂

[@chasvox2]

Perfect.

[@fwscoringmusic6670]

Great tutorial. Last but not least: the greatest mixers do they mixes at low volume. At low volume you can hear all the details that could be wrong. Hearing music loud makes you comfortable but makes you focused on the main result and not upon details, and when we are composing or mixing we have to take care about details.

[@wolfgangliebig5387]

that's just wrong - as soon as we're talking anything related to film, the greatest re-recording engineers as well as every other re-recording engineer is going to work on calibrated levels. That is going to be loud. because your signal most of the time is not going to be hot but pretty quiet. It's about the details that are happening at the quiet end - they get lost if monitoring is to low.

[@fwscoringmusic6670]

@@wolfgangliebig5387 Maybe I didn't used the right words because english is not my mother's tongue. Of course the levels have to be calibrated first (it was obvious for me that's why I didn't mention it) and have to be in the right spots, but since i do my orchestral mixes at lower volume , I feel much better all the details and I'm more focused on what has to be improved. it was Dennis Sands who showed me this approach during a class :-)

[@alexwatson6082]

@@fwscoringmusic6670 This is the case for nearly every mix engineer that I've worked with (25 years in film & tv recording in a London studio.) Control rooms are lined up so that 0Vu Dolby Pink Noise reads 85dBSPL at the listening position - but mix engineers don't listen at that level when mixing (except the slightly older ones who may have lost bit of hearing - but we don't talk about that!!)

[@henria.8269]

Hey Christian! Why not putting a rubber pad underneath the keyboard? This constant sliding down while playing dynamically the stage piano would drive me crazy 😅 Good video by the way.

[@ianmorton5539]

...Hansontastic...!!!

[@UnrealSoundDesigner]

fortisisimo is 3 Fs if anyone cared to know and fortisisisimo is 4 Fs

[@jamesdefrancesco7765]

Well, obviously.

[@DolfoMan1000]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the content (great stuff btw) but in your desk a woodworking bench? I just noticed the square holes near your Magic Mouse and they look just like old fashioned dog holes for holding work pieces.

[@d.lafollette]

FFF = Fortississimo

[@IS-]

What about, 'clearly'? Clearly, this would be equally obvious. Just pulling your metronome. Thanks for the video and I tend to agree.

[@deividasgnedinas7592]

The main problem is that most "wannabe orchestrators/composers" do not listen to classical orchestral music in real life or listen to it very rarely. I will surprise you - it is not easy to listen to it these days. It is full of KZbin "specialists" who, just for the sake of their channel subscriptions and video likes, give you various advice, although they themselves neither listen to nor really understand that music. They do not understand because they do not have real orchestration and composition education. This is the biggest fake. Most people think that I will buy sample orchestras, midi controllers and will compose orchestral music. It will not be like that and stop deceiving yourself by watching hundreds of KZbin tutorials from such advisors. If you want to at least tame the orchestral sound - listen to that music at least twice as much as you hear the sound of pop songs every day. If you want to become a real professional composer - enter academies and study real composition and orchestration. There is no other way.

[@maximlamoureux4129]

”If u want to become a real professional composer, Enter academies and study… there is no other way” U do realise how many times this has been proven false?

[@deividasgnedinas7592]

@@maximlamoureux4129 yes- its way more less, that real professionals composers with education.

[@maximlamoureux4129]

@@deividasgnedinas7592u made an absolute statement, that was false. It’s okay.

[@Tyrell_Corp2019]

I agree. It’s amazing how many of these trailer music guys are using special effects to cover up for their deficiencies. And frankly, they all sound the same. Not good considering how AI is about to separate truly creative people from the mediocre. At least listen to tons of classical. And try to understand the history of it all - how it all started from Gregorian Chant and developed onwards, etc. And especially try to understand the overtone series. (the first thing I was actually taught in school) That alone will not only help you with your orchestrations, but especially in your mixing abilities. As for an education, there are many composes who are self-taught, but it definitely doesn’t hurt to pursue one. As someone who didn’t have a lot of money, I was fortunate to access an inexpensive community college that offered a classical music program. All of the professors had great backgrounds. (they’re not all teaching at expensive places you know.) While it may not have been a top conservatory, the lessons in counterpoint and harmony have served me well. I then studied jazz harmony in some non-credit courses. And it all added up I can hear in an instant if someone understands proper SATB voice leading. And if you think stuff like that, doesn’t matter? It does. Because it IS noticeable. It’s the language of professionals. John Williams didn’t become who he was by sheer luck. 😉

[@maximlamoureux4129]

@@Tyrell_Corp2019 (Of course all of that is important. but you can study that at home :) that was my point)

[@docgify]

Sorry”we would call your variation of levels as…”

[@LearnCompositionOnline]

The first obvious thing to do is to study orchestral scores and hear real orchestras, but also hearing the best recordings for orchestra. Because the most common mistake is dynamic and interactive balance between parts, not gain staging. Another obvious thing is learn more about orchestras with conductors. So we build the correct reference in our heads.

[@SeanMcKay-t4q]

Excellent description and expression of dynamics!

[@peterknockaert9176]

Great video. One question; how does this apply when you have most of time only opportunity of using headphones? Would be interesting to hear your perspective!

[@TheCrowHillCo]

I would try wherever possible to set your headroom on speakers first. Confident that when say your pizzicato is at full whack that it is gonna be budging the uncomfortable level. Then I would insert 3 x gain plugins on your master bus. One for headphones be for “chase sequence” one for “climax” which are attenuated back. You can set these levels by playing quiet then dynamic then loud music respectively at levels which you think are both audible and safe. Writing recording and mixing in non optimal environments is about trusting your kit and instincts. Make sure your headphones are open back. I think better dynamic and senheiser models are good for this. Plump for headphones that you understand (ie compare their response against your speakers) and get to know them. But the most valuable duet of tools is a combination of your ears and sleep. Make sure you get some of the latter ahead of submitting anything. This tool is greater than any set of speakers or headphones at identifying problems with your balance and mix.

[@peterknockaert9176]

@@TheCrowHillCo Thanks so much for the elaborate anwser! Really good idea about three different gain plugins. And really true about 'ears and sleep combination'!

[@chas1085]

Hello Christian, I respect and admire your knowledge, experience and ability... and your willingness to share it with us so we can improve our skills. I'm probably going to be a lone wolf here, but I must say, I don't care for the unnecessary use of expletives in your videos. They don't really enhance what is being expressed (imo) and, from my perspective, detract from it. In my youth, I slung enough to sink a ship (so to speak) and have finally reached a point where they are no longer a part of my personal speech. For this I am grateful (it was quite a challenge to get here!). Anyway, thanks for your videos and for sharing your musical wisdom. Much appreciated!

[@stevesherman8215]

Bingo. Nobody wants to watch an orchestral composer making sausages ...

[@makingmusiconline2309]

Important for KZbin watchers .... they've switched on "Stable Volume" for most users, so KZbin is increasing the low volume stuff and reducing the higher volume, basically compressing the sound and reducing the dynamic range. You probably should switch it off before watching this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJmadmuEeLetZ9Usi=QBIcXDyp6CKgCeew

[@lambdaprog]

Information hierarchy has the right to exist, obviously.

[@kimseniorb]

the BIGGEST problem is trying to convince your audience that orchestral programming would sound anything like the real thing. it can’t and it wouldn’t. we didn’t get too far from silly rompler tv show scores from the 90s simply because there is no intent behind the programmed phrases. people don’t play like that. the devs should invest in AI to try and bridge that gap and to make the parts realistic sounding

[@slartibartfast1268]

Yawn