Christians Weren't Persecuted! | Dr. Candida Moss

[@History-Valley]

➡📚Get her book! amzn.to/4caNEyo

[@riley02192012]

I absolutely love her books. She's one of my favorite Biblical Scholars. I'm fangirling right now! 😂❤🎉

[@kengemmer]

Moss admits some persecution of Christian occurred so the video’s title is false. Title could be “Stories of Christian persecution are exaggerated.”

[@jonathonjubb6626]

Woooooo!!

[@Chris-op7yt]

i like Candida's style. this is the real scholarship of religions; not the faux elevation of religious writings by many of the institutionalized bible scholars

[@TorianTammas]

Most Biblical scholars are preachers who fail on the scientific method as they preach their cult message.

[@theoutspokenhumanist]

An excellent summary, whilst waiting for the book to arrive. Thank you both.

[@mauricemenard2243]

You will lose your money .The reality is quite different. The Romans were the conquerors and dominated all the tribes of Israel and to have peace with Israel, he allowed the practice and even encouragement of their religion. The proof was that he built the temple in Jerusalem for them. !!! Christians are and have been the destruction of this agreement, so much so that they had to destroy Christianity!

[@davidbeazley1958]

When you belong to a messianic death cult, any criticism, however minor, seems like persecution.

[@TorianTammas]

It is a desire of the memvers of a death cult todie like their guru, at least in theory.

[@jeffreywilliams9299]

The Evangelical Christians are right now claiming to be persecuted, because of criticism, mere criticism.Snowflakey as can be.

[@mauricemenard2243]

The reality is quite different. The Romans were the conquerors and dominated all the tribes of Israel and to have peace with Israel, he allowed the practice and even encouragement of their religion. The proof was that he built the temple in Jerusalem for them. !!! Christians are and have been the destruction of this agreement, so much so that they had to destroy Christianity!

[@josedorsaith5261]

Cool it with the antisemitic remarks. Bet you're one of those holocaust-deniers

[@Abyssal-r8d]

Sure, that death cult gave you life, free speech and human rights. Be grateful!

[@baarbacoa]

The digital age makes martyrdom more convenient. I myself have been martyred in the comments several times.

[@CheddarBayBaby]

Jacob sipping down that glass bottle coke is the funniest thing I’ve seen on this channel 😂

[@soupbonep]

I've never seen Jacob smile so much. Of course Dr. Moss is very cute!

[@icypirate11]

I got about 60 seconds into this video and bought the book. My wife is gonna kill me. I keep buying books faster than I can read them. After I finish _"Genres of Rewriting in Second Temple Judaism"_ by Molly Zahn, I have _"The Origins of Judaism"_ by Yonatan Adler to read, -not to mention 14 other books by Bart Ehrman, Francesca Stavrakopoulou, Eric Cline, Dennis MacDonald, Richard C Miller, Joshua Bowen, Susan Niditch, etc. And I still need to complete the MVP Courses I purchased. At least I'm supporting the critical scholarship community monetarily. lol

[@dmsdad6866]

Commitment. I've simply got an Amazon cart full of books lol

[@jamiegallier2106]

What a fascinating and charming conversation. Great questions, interesting answers. ❤

[@mauricemenard2243]

The reality is quite different. The Romans were the conquerors and dominated all the tribes of Israel and to have peace with Israel, he allowed the practice and even encouragement of their religion. The proof was that he built the temple in Jerusalem for them. !!! Christians are and have been the destruction of this agreement, so much so that they had to destroy Christianity!

[@steve37341]

Always interesting to hear about the actual history of events. Not certain of course but helpful in understanding what happened so long ago. Thanks for hosting Dr. Moss. I'm actually listening to the audio version of her book God's Ghostwriters too. Fascinating angle on how slaves were used during the early centuries of the CE.

[@ts8960]

Well done Dr Moss

[@kencratchley8697]

According to Joseph Atwill in Caesar’s Messiah there were no Christians until after the gospels were written after 70 ad. The martyrdom was made up to create a history of Christianity.

[@Jesuslovesyou801]

and they just woke up and christianity was there. that doesn't make much sense. there were people with awareness and everything was contemporary to reference. that joseph really wanted things to not be. many people really want the Truth to not be but it doesn't move that we will all come before the God that we knew all along. every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus is Lord

[@geraldmeehan8942]

Thank you Dr Moss, thank you Jacob

[@FelixFortunaRex]

Thank u history valley. Good episode again. Seems like more bible scholars need to research this subject. I will. Very interesting. ❤

[@hglundahl]

12:27 The reasons why Pliny and Trajan would still be having that conversation would be: * if the persecutions under Nero and Domitian had been intermittent, and ceased already * and their mediatisation had been inferior among Romans than among Christians * and on top of that had used legal clauses not originally meant for Christians.

[@Bluesruse]

Pliny and Tacitus were buddies. Pliny's dad (the Elder) was considered a hero, and a contemporary to Nero. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Tacitus wrote anything about any 'Christians' without Pliny knowing. Tacitus would have asked Pliny, or used his dad as a source, and Pliny would have known those sources by heart as well. Tacitus wrote some dirt on Nero, because he didn't like him. Christians saw an opportunity to bullshit their way into history, just like they did with their so called 'Christ'. Case closed.

[@hglundahl]

@@Bluesruse Let's take a look at Pliny the Elder: _"At the earliest time that Pliny could have left the service, Nero, the last of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, had been emperor for two years. He did not leave office until AD 68, when Pliny was 45 years old. During that time, Pliny did not hold any high office or work in the service of the state. In the subsequent Flavian dynasty, his services were in such demand that he had to give up his law practice, which suggests that he had been trying not to attract the attention of Nero, who was a dangerous acquaintance."_ This means, his son could have been aware of Nero's persecution without being sure whether this should _count as_ legal precedent.

[@Bluesruse]

@@hglundahl When you lift a direct quote from somewhere, you should really say where it's from. In this case, Google lead me to Wikipedia, and the quote in question to be completely sourceless. The opinion of a random person online can therefore be left on its own. But just to comment what's wrong there: Any Emperor could have of course been a potentially 'dangerous acquaintance', but on its own this is like saying 'you didn't eat a Snickers bar yesterday, so you must be allergic to nuts'. A more accurate and honest description of Nero is pretty far from the popular image people know that the Christians fabricated. You could say that Nero suffered the greatest character assassinations in history. Also, Pliny the Yonger in his letters to Tacitus pretty clearly describes his father as a 'good Roman'. Something Nero arguably was not in the way the term was understood and meant to be understood by Tacitus. Shortest way to describe the situation is: Nero was "gay". And the Elder being an army man and a friend to the general who ultimately takes the crown after a civil war (Vespasian, whom with the Elder had served together with in German legions), there's quite a bit wrong with saying the Elder didn't hold office in Nero's court, because Nero was a 'dangerous acquaintance'. He didn't hold office, because there was a) no reason to b) because he didn't want to. Vespasian changed both.

[@hglundahl]

@@Bluesruse Thanks for noting it's from wikipedia. Still more credible than your own totally unsourced claims. Nero was a man who forced Seneca and Burrus to commit suicide and who was thought responsible for the murder of his mother. This is in Annals book VI, not in wikipedia (at least the passage about his mother's death) which means that this was the view Tacitus had of him. This being so, it was probably the view Pliny the Elder had of him, on your information. This being so, it is once again very likely that Pliny the Younger could have been aware of Nero persecuting Christians and even so being unsure if this was supposed to be legal precedent.

[@Bluesruse]

@@hglundahl _"This means, his son could have been aware of Nero's persecution without being sure whether this should count as legal precedent."_ Oh, and this is just some apologist non sequitur nonsense. It's not what the quote you refer to means even if we would take it seriously, which we shouldn't.

[@henryescudero863]

Great interview. Please interview Chris Palmero, host of the Born in the Second Century podcast.

[@VSP4591]

Persecutions of Christians was random and time limited. It was not a permanent practice. Romans were very permissible so in Roman Empire many religions coexisted. Take the example of Islam or Christianity in 10-14 century AD . No other religion was accepted without penalty.

[@Abyssal-r8d]

But why though? What was the justification when it sporadic ? You say as if it's ok. Today, the most persecuted religious group are Christians. Are there a lot of places where Christians are not persecuted? Yes, sure. What's the point of the argument ? 😂 It's like saying to a group of people who were slaves "well, slavery was actually good. You only perceive it as bad because you didn't cooperate with your masters. Most slaves are being treated very well provided they are not rebellious." I see colonialism is still in the blood of you white folks. Can't help yourselves.

[@perfectblindguy]

It is true. Nero never persecuted Christians.

[@thedude9941]

He did though. This woman is stupid and her theories are baseless.

[@amadeusmza]

@@thedude9941 argue or keep silent please.

[@MarcosSilveira-vx6nn]

​@@amadeusmza refuse him

[@Abyssal-r8d]

​@@MarcosSilveira-vx6nnI like your comment 😂

[@MarcosSilveira-vx6nn]

@@Abyssal-r8d Cameron Bertuzzi interviewed Liberato de Caro on your channel about 2022 study shroud dating

[@hglundahl]

10:19 They had already been called Christians in Antioch, and Nero's wife Poppaea had a predeliction for Jews, which may have well been abused to get her to target Christians. At least rather Christians than Jews. // POPPÆA SABINA: By: Kaufmann Kohler, Eduard Neumann Mistress and, after 62 C.E., second wife of the emperor Nero; died 65. She had a certain predilection for Judaism, and is characterized by Josephus ("Ant." xx. 8, § 11; "Vita," § 3) as θεοσεβής ("religious"). Some Jews, such as the actor Alityros, were well received at court, and Poppæa was always ready to second Jewish petitions before the emperor. In 64 Josephus went to Rome to obtain the liberation of some priests related to him who had been taken captive to that city for some minor offense. With the help of Alityros, Josephus succeeded in gaining the intercession of the empress, and returned home with his friends, bearing rich gifts with him. // a) Jews were already unpopular b) Christians were unpopular among Jews c) Poppaea persuades Nero to target Christians rather than Jews. The word of Tacitus shows they were targetted.

[@mh4zd]

Stepp'n up the production quality. Amen.

[@kariannecrysler640]

Wonderful interview

[@mauricemenard2243]

The reality is quite different. The Romans were the conquerors and dominated all the tribes of Israel and to have peace with Israel, he allowed the practice and even encouragement of their religion. The proof was that he built the temple in Jerusalem for them. !!! Christians are and have been the destruction of this agreement, so much so that they had to destroy Christianity!

[@jamesstevenson7725]

Thank you Dr. Moss

[@purplecreamband]

My ancestors were Waldensian and it is clearly documented that during 500 years of Inquisition by the Catholic Popes they were massacred countless numbers late 12th century Ad to 17th century AD

[@robinette64]

That is a case of “Christians” killing other “Christians”, not persecution by an outside group

[@CAHiredGun]

God bless you. The Lord used your ancestors as a light shining in the darkness of the Middle Ages.

[@senefelder]

In St. Bartholomew's Day massacre in 1572, one group of Christians killed thousands of Christians from a rival group. More Christians died during that single event than in the whole persecutions of the Roman Empire.

[@GeorgeCostanzais10.]

Hey, Jacob: great product placement at 04:35, you should send the bill to Atlanta 😂 (love the channel)

[@mauricemenard2243]

Easy to destroy arguments =The reality is quite different. The Romans were the conquerors and dominated all the tribes of Israel and to have peace with Israel, he allowed the practice and even encouragement of their religion. The proof was that he built the temple in Jerusalem for them. !!! Christians are and have been the destruction of this agreement, so much so that they had to destroy Christianity!

[@arriuscalpurniuspiso]

Why don't you just come right out with it and say that the first Christians were Roman Stoics like Seneca and Gaius Calpurnius Piso?

[@welshtractoldschoolbaptist5137]

Congratulations on your new appointment Candida!

[@konstantinNeo]

Saul of Tarsus, he did not persecute the followers of Jesus?

[@philadelphiyahhsmyrna0]

Jew on jew violence

[@zeroclout6306]

This channel is goated tbh.

[@graemeshearer9718]

Someone better inform all those Sunday school teachers that the history of early Christian persecution is actually more complex! How dare they not tell those 6 year olds that actually far from being unbroken and empire wide, it was often localised, sporadic and not always sanctioned by the emperor. I’m sure they’ll be thankful for the nuance.

[@jtprobst1]

And tell them they justify their persecution of others for their dead man god calls them to do so, Luke 19:27

[@noonesomeone669]

The persecution narrative has negative consequences. Providing context in Christian formation would be a good thing.

[@jtprobst1]

@@noonesomeone669 providing what to who? This generation has the tech it does and still demands it to be served on a silver platter….

[@graemeshearer9718]

Maybe the same accusation could be levelled at the title of this authors of this book and the title of this podcast. both suggest a simplistic conclusion to a complex issue.

[@josedorsaith5261]

​@@jtprobst1 Bit rich coming from you of all people 😂

[@mickeyre]

You need proof to contradict centuries documented historical president. A hand full of anecdotal stories is not scholarship.

[@martinsolomon5500]

Precedent

[@Uryvichk]

Christian martyrdom stories are nothing but anecdotes.

[@antonius3745]

And there is one other point. The first martyrs, as she states rightly, were no Christians but Jews.

[@buzzhawk]

Christianity was Jewish back then, Jewish Christians did exist, as some still exist today.

[@antonius3745]

@@buzzhawk then they were no christians. They only believed in Gods promise who they saw annouced by Jesus. They did not believe in Jesus as evangelics do. Btw evangelic christianity is gnostism.

[@perfectblindguy]

True. Stephen did not say a damn thing about Jesus.

[@antonius3745]

@@perfectblindguy He did say much about Jesus but he was not a christian, like Paul was no christian and the apostles. Christianity as we know it, came into being in the 2nd century or at least after the year 70.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Christians ARE "Biblical Israel." Back then and still today (2024). Americans suffer egregious terminological difficulties and category confusions. Christians own Ta Biblia (The Books or "The Bible"). Those are all ours. The bigger story here about Rome is that paranoid Roman "elites" persecuted almost EVERYONE who organized outside the Roman state apparatus. That bigger picture is in the historical record. Focusing only on the persecuted Christians in Rome is like talking about cuts of beef while ignoring all the turkey, pork, lamb and chicken at the meat counter. The vast majority of "jews" converted to Christianity (or Islam) long, long ago. Today, Christians (and Muslims) are 33% (and 25%) of the entire global population. "Conversion" is the key operational verb here (for Buddhists too, coming in at around 7-8% of the global population in 2024). Self-described "religious jews" are adherents to a post-Christian religious tradition now divided into many different sects. Self-described non-religious "ethnic jews" are some kind of real or imaginary ethnic "identity club." Both together are somewhere around 0.2% (far less than 1%) of the global population. Where our futures are concerned, numbers absolutely matter. Everywhere. All the time. @@antonius3745

[@yoursoulisforever]

Nothing against this young Lady personally but, I have found that people who come up in the university system have a certain detachment that limits their ability to analyze the real world. IMHO. I speak as someone that's spent a good deal of time in both. The detachment is real and, looking back, I'm grateful that I did not get trapped in it. This does not mean that scholars are not worth listening to! Their research has real value.

[@TheDanEdwards]

" ...people who come up in the university system have a certain detachment that limits their ability to analyze the real world." - compared to people who "come up" in .... what exactly? And what in the "real world" is Dr. Moss missing in her discussion of persecution of early Christians?

[@yoursoulisforever]

Go deep in the University world, then go deep in the world outside the university, and you'll see what I'm saying. If you have not done that, then you will not be able to see the size of the gap. Anyway, I still listen to scholars. And I value their work! But it is also valuable to understand that they live in, for lack of a better term, a bubble. I'm not pointing out a weakness to put anyone down but rather, to keep things real. There is knowledge and wisdom to be gained in both worlds, which can then be applied in our attempts to understand the past.

[@lightningbug276]

Is Dr. Moss’s view disputed by other scholars or is this a mainstream view?

[@graemeshearer9718]

I’d say it’s an outlier. It’s one thing saying that Christian martyr narratives are overplayed or exaggerated, but to claim that it didn’t exist seems a radical postion to take.

[@mavrospanayiotis]

I red the book and she didn't say it never happened but it was exagerrated and exploited for ideological reasons.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

It's a very mainstream view. The fact that the Age of Persecution is a myth has been widely accepted in the field of Christian history studies since the 1970s. Like Dr. Moss said in this video, widespread acceptance was actually (accidentally) pioneered by the Jesuits. Many scholars have proposed this idea from as early as the 18th century, but it was largely considered fringe before the Jesuits got into the game. In 1962 (or maybe earlier) Pope John XXIII wanted to reform the Catholic liturgical calendar, which is delineated by the feast days of the saints. While never stated explicitly, one of the objectives was to remove saints who might have been fictional characters or, worse, pagan deities. Many of these dubious saints got in through the martyrdom route. So the Jesuits started going over the historicity of all these saints and in the process went through a thorough investigation of Roman documents in their possession to establish the conditions in the periods saints were supposed to have been martyred. That's how they ultimately reached the conclusion that the great, persistent, persecutions under the pagan Roman empire never happened. The only real one was Diocletian's, and his successors quickly put an end to it. This validated those earlier "fringe" scholars and the Catholic Church, or at least its academic arm, accepted the findings, leading to even more widespread acceptance. I mean, think about it. The hardest-line defenders of the Catholic Papacy just conceded that one of the most deeply held beliefs in their entire church was bunk. They couldn't really hide it. Pope John XXIII died in 1963, but his successor Paul VI continued many of his reforms, including the 1969 reform of the liturgical calendar and removal of many saints from it. Of these, the most shocking and consequential was the removal of St. Ursula (who may have been a Germanic bear-goddess, but we don't talk about that). The order of Ursulines bearing her name was, and still is, the single largest female order of the Catholic Church. In 1970 they were quitely told to drop their patroness St. Ursula in favor of their own founder St. Angela. This created a major uproar that lasted until the late 1990s. Subsequent Popes have either enforced this or relented to the Ursulines, but the damage was done. The fracas drew the attention of mainstream scholars who then caught on to the Jesuits' research and have expanded it ever since. Dr. Moss is just the latest in the long line stretching back five decades.

[@rxw5520]

No one believes, as the video title says, “Christians weren’t persecuted”. Zero. It’s utter nonsense resulting from contemporary zeitgeist. If you didn’t worship the state gods you were gonna make trouble with the Roman authorities (see Judaism as well). As to the extent of the persecution and how far off the deep end this lady has gone, it’s speculation. If you wanna check bias, ask yourself why, since the earliest Christians were also Jews, isn’t anyone making an argument that these Jews weren’t persecuted? Why would a historian never say such a thing?

[@TorianTammas]

It is widely known that these "prosecution stories"are the exagerations and many more are outright invented. Forgeries and lies are pretty common in Christianity. Half of the letters of Paul are forgeries. Not to mention that the Roman-greek stories about Iesous (Jesus) are heavily influenced by greek philosophy and the stories of Homer, Euripides, Vergil and we have even inspirations that were from Josephus. The Moses story or the Noah stories are at best retelling and rearranging other stories. They have a really casual relation to the truth it. is more like a bew year wish that holds about a minute.

[@hglundahl]

9:40 Tacitus had in his first work Agricola, about an uncle general, broken a "media silence" as it is to us, lasting from the last lines of Velleius Paterculus. In those days, you weren't just terrorised for being a Christian, but even for being a decent historian -- a bit like in Putin's Russia, but worse.

[@tyronecox5976]

Chrestians, that's because Titus was the Chrestus author of All biblical scripture, Dionysus God of wine fertility and the underworld,why wine's mentioned so often, satire.

[@hglundahl]

11:58 The correspondence in Pliny's correspondence with Trajan shows Christians already being persecuted. It does not mark a decision to persecute Christians. The Romans were perfectly capable of persecuting Christians under a legal text which to them applied to "sth similar" namely Senatus Consultum de Bacchanalibus. Sei quis velitod bacchanal habuisse ... Romans were perfectly capable of classing Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists as Bacchus worshippers. They were also (with a little help from Poppaea) able to distinguish between different groups that they would tend to view as Bacchus worshippers.

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

Pliny would have been three when the Fire and persecutions happened.. If the persecution was limited to Rome as seems to be the case then his relative lack of knowledge is explainable. At the end of the day there are at least two sources that say Nero persecuted Christians.

[@hglundahl]

@@JohnCooper-y7n Thank you! Tacitus and ...?

[@hglundahl]

11:08 Reference in legal texts is desired.

[@Thomasw540]

Between the execution of Sejanus and the death of Tiberius, it became dangerous to be a Christian in Roman society of Rome, tibberius died in 37 CE Tacitus recalls with approval Neo's wag the dog pogram of the Christians after the Great Fire in 64 and he was only 8 years old at the time but his hatred for that "Christian Tribe" was fully formed. You Jesus Seminar scholars analyze the literature of the Gosples as if Judea existed withiin a Planetariums totally without reference to larger continuum outside the dome of the Holy Land. This is an example whre the Post Modern Historic Deconstruction has failed. This is more like the myth of the cogent scholarship of Bart Ehrman and the Jesus Seminar.

[@DannyYt-y5h]

What about the Jewish Christians from the first and second century who were dispersed from Jerusalem and shipped off all let’s say to Spain. And in Spain, if you weren’t a member of the Roman Catholic Church, you either became a member or you died. You don’t mention the fact that many of the Jews, who lived in Europe and in the Mediterranean area like Spain and Portugal were very deeply persecuted, cause you probably never heard of, the Spanish inquisition, but that’s what that’s about. Persecuting Jewish Christians.

[@thedude9941]

There were no Jewish Christians in the middle ages in Spain, the Jesus cult had long died out among Jews by that point.

[@hglundahl]

11:42 "It would have been Jews" Except for Poppaea.

[@philadelphiyahhsmyrna0]

What is that supposed to prove?🤔

[@hglundahl]

@@philadelphiyahhsmyrna0 Candida Moss speculated that Christians wouldn't have been targetted, Jews would have been so. Poppaea was what would now be called a Noahide, so, she made sure Nero didn't persecute Jews proper. More open to having him persecute a Jewish sect which Jews had persecuted.

[@philadelphiyahhsmyrna0]

@@hglundahl You're reaching. Noahide appears to be a modern concept that ancient Jews, especially rabbis, would not practice within 2nd temple judaism and the near after.

[@hglundahl]

@@philadelphiyahhsmyrna0 Back then it was called "god fearing" ...

[@davidmalinowski489]

Dang she is beautiful

[@Jesuslovesyou801]

the irony in this covert tactic. this approach is cousin to persecution. attack the Truth in whatever manner and in fact, every manner. we see that it is taboo to talk about the Saviour today and that is when He alone is Salvation and one is only living to die if they dont have Jesus Christ

[@Jesuslovesyou801]

i wonder what one would say about persecution today? that will increase more too

[@jonathonjubb6626]

This might be interesting...

[@mervynsoo8353]

Since creation god has been persecuting everything and everyone😢 dude has some serious anger issues

[@jasoncuculo7035]

Good question! Socrates compared to Jesus!

[@emmanuel7085]

These are the same people who would deny the Holocaust

[@Darisiabgal7573]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@antonpavlovitsj]

sound: bad on professor’s side..

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

Moss's claim that it's logically impossible for Nero to have persecuted Christians because they didn't have the term Christian is silly. They would have been able to see that there was a group in Rome that originated in Judaism but differed by following a recently crucified Messiah whether they called themselves "Christians." It's like saying members of the LDS weren't persecuted because they weren't called Mormons until later.

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

Here is Tacitus: But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called "Chrestians" by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.

[@andrewtheapostate]

As Moss states, there are reasons for doubting the authenticity of Tacitus' account. He was writing 50 years after the event and was politically opposed to Nero. Framing Moss' objection to the historicity of persecution under Nero as being solely based on Jesus followers not yet being called Christians is not only silly but disingenuous.

[@ChrisMusante]

​@@andrewtheapostate - it is best to do the analysis while someone is alive to 'speak to' as books cannot always present proper 'context' and 'graves' cannot reason anything but the reality of the inescapable. I have THE proper context of both the old AND new testaments, as well as the world's ONLY scripturally backed 'theodicy'. No... I will NOT write another 'book' as that would make me a part of the problem. You have my phone number instead. This 'book' and it's law of God - is destroying us. Not because the data is bad, but because we cannot see it for the 'beast' that it is. Given a 'voice' and 'marveled' at, by the whole world.

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

@@andrewtheapostate She says it's illogical.

[@DrPhilGoode]

Almost 150,000 people were crucified by Roman powers. The vast majority were not Christian. I was persecuted (as were many others) until age 16 by fundamentalist Christians. So….

[@ThroneofDavid8]

On Passover, the church came out of Egypt

[@johnjones8112]

😂

[@mikewilliams235]

We all wrestle with God. Even the athiests wrestle with God that's why they are athiests. If they weren't they would just be getting on with their lives but it's impossible to ignore God. Hiding from Him is the best they can do. God bless us all

[@real.evidence]

Your statement is entirely false. By the way, which god are you referring to? Do you believe in Zalmoxis, or Osiris and Isis? Do you believe in Anu, the god above all gods in the Mesopotamian faith tradition? An atheist by definition does not believe that any god or gods exist. A person can be interested and even fascinated by faith traditions, mythologies, and religions from a historical-critical standpoint and its impact on human culture, politics, and policies. This is no different than an interest in any other humanities study like philosophy, art, or literature. By studying world religions critically and academically, you see that no single religion develops in a vacuum. Religious beliefs and traditions evolve and are influenced by and adapt to other cultures and ideas. Judaism and Christianity were both influenced significantly by prior and contemporary faith traditions of their time-Canaanite, Egyptian, Mesopotamian (Assyrian, Babylonian), Persian, Greek and its Hellenistic domination, Roman, etc. Many of the theological ideas found in Judaism and Christianity were adopted and assimilated from preexisting religions. Even YHWH of the Hebrew bible was originally a subordinate god in the Canaanite pantheon of gods who later absorbed many of the features of its supreme god El.

[@mikewilliams235]

@@real.evidence 🤢🤮 blah blah blah

[@lamalama9717]

Most of us DO just get on with our lives when we can. Unfortunately we live in a world full of others who have a belief in a God or gods and are in the habit of telling us about it. So it's about dealing with other people and their ideas and their actions based on those, not about tackling an actual entity like a God.

[@mikewilliams235]

@@real.evidence Thanks for the reply. After critically examining the world's religions and after critically examining myself I have chosen Jesus.

[@ihatespam2]

You are clueless and biased. If you believers would stop invading our schools and politics with you primitive beliefs, it wouldn’t even come up. I “wrestled “ with many philosophical questions, it doesn’t mean they are true or real things. Luckily by the time I was 12, I realized it had to be myth, because it was absurd and I saw no evidence, just stories. Don’t condescend with your passive aggressive blessings. And read a book other than that collections of stories and myths with bad history, bad science and bad ethics. You know God drowned children because he didn’t like their parents right? Your false god is a monster, Jesus is useless and psychotic. He supports slavery and everything in the OT, then invented hell to torture people who are unconvinced by his terrible communications.

[@fagica]

I expect better from a scholar. Nero and the fiddle? This is a crass error by Anglosaxon translators who modified the original legend that talks about Nero playing a LYRE. Now, it is still a legend but when you cite a legend, if you are a scholar, please make sure you have your details right. About the rest of the presentation? She is a lightweight, with no depth, with arguments at high school level. In denying the persecutions of Christians, she uses the same explanations tha I - a non-specialist in the field, just an amateur reader -- would use discussing the topic with friends to spend a couple of hours. Actually I probably know more about the persecutions that were proclaimed and not carried out than she does, for instance by means of what kind of tricks the Diocletian's edicts were NOT enforced in Norther Africa against the Donatists.

[@bobbylee_]

I’ve always felt this was the case. There is something in the way people go on about how ancient Christians were persecuted. Like a privileged group claiming they have it worse than the marginalized group they’re subjugating.

[@CarmellaMulroy]

It's dumb because they would just say they aren't Christians..

[@RealUvane]

These crypto Mars worshippers were fought against because they were a threat to law and order. They originally were raiders on horsebacks that came down from the Zargos mountains. Later they became pirates.

[@Austria88586]

To claim Christian persecution is not just exaggerated but entirely fabricated seems far fetched.

[@TheDanEdwards]

"... but entirely fabricated seems far fetched." - did you listen to the video, and follow the details?

[@jtprobst1]

It was the xtians who persecuted us Jews, in the name of their dead man god, as their text calls for the unaliving of those who don’t bow, Luke 19:27, ….. think Hanukkah, Purim…. We will continue to live and we will thrive, xtians don’t win. Jeremiah 16:19

[@perfectblindguy]

Christians might have been, but Nero did not persecute Christians. And Stephen didn't say a damn word about Jesus.

[@buzzhawk]

​@@jtprobst1 Where was your imaginary friend during between 1941 and 1945? You depend on Christian charity and you reap the benefits of colonialism and imperialism to maintain your apartheid regime, but there are diminishing returns, don't beat a dead horse too much, or history might repeat itself!

[@jtprobst1]

@@buzzhawk my imaginary friend? You mean yours?

[@WilliamLusk-x5y]

Amazing interview

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

How does Moss know that there weren't identifiable Christians in Rome c. AD 60?

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

We have sources (I Peter and Acts) that refer to Christians. We have Suetonius and Tacitus mentioning Christians. Paul writes to the Chruch at Rome in the 50s and there were Christians. This lady's agenda is driving the train.

[@perfectblindguy]

Here's the history. Rome burned in 64AD. Some Christians, for whatever reason, admitted to doing it. The penalty for arson in those days was being burned at the stake. So that is what happened, according to a PBS special that I watched.

[@JohnCooper-y7n]

What proof is there that Christians confessed?@@perfectblindguy