Christmas Eve w/ Lauren & Dr. John - JONBENET RAMSEY

[@AuntMaggie]

I followed this case from the night it happened and all the craziness for the next ten years. I, and a good many others knew the case the way you know the Daybell case - every character, all of the evidence. So when I see anyone taking the case on after so long I roll my eyes, but I have to say you two really did your research - great job! Side note - it took over 20 years but Lin Wood finally let his crazy mask slip. Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays!

[@onemanstrash8233]

Lin Wood? Who is that?

[@AuntMaggie]

@@onemanstrash8233 He was the Ramsey's attorney for about 20 years . He made quite a handsome living suing on Burke's behalf anytime Burke was mentioned as a possible suspect. The Ramsey's bulldog. And lied constantly. He fake prayed at rallies for 'stop the steal." Now he's an advocate for Timothy Homlseth, a mentally deranged Qanon offshoot.

[@MsPhoebus]

@@AuntMaggie Didn't Lin Wood become one of Trump's lawyers as well? That speaks volumes.

[@AuntMaggie]

@@MsPhoebus Not that I am aware of, I think he wanted to be. I've despised him long before Trump because he obstructed justice for a beautiful six year old child for two decades.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Lin wood has "repented"

[@BedCrimeStories]

It's so nice to hear from educated presenters who don't use loud noise effects and foul language to present the case.

[@paulamarie43]

I am rewatching and I want to say how much I loved having you two together. To feel your energy and love warmed my heart so much. I am alone in this life now but it makes me so happy to see such love !!!! Your son is so blessed and you are so blessed to have him!!! Continue to be blessed and thank you for this Christmas gift of getting time with you!!!!

[@karlachilders1145]

We’re so thankful for y’all taking your precious time to do this for us!! Regardless whether you have your own microphones or not. We’ll take you any way we can get you!!

[@Lkhrobertson]

Thanks!

[@lclaire1000]

I actually love seeing you two sitting together like this! You are my “go to” for understanding more about these cases, especially Vallow/Daybell. You and the Good Lori bring us great information and I’m so thankful for you three. I appreciate you. Happy holidays to you and thank you for your dedication in all you do.

[@elizabethgrogan8553]

I was a bed wetter until I was about 10 - 12. It is very distressing. My mother could be very annoyed at times & I developed a fear of falling asleep. Our home was large and I thought there were ghosts everywhere. This came about because of the many hours I lay in bed, dreading sleep. My daughter suddenly asked for a potty, at the age of 20 months, having seen my friend's daughter use one. She never wore a diaper during the day again. I bought pull-up diapers for her to sleep in. She was nearly 4 when she became dry at night. I was totally relaxed about it all as I knew the stress of being a bed wetter.

[@GoGreen-l7e]

Yeah I posted earlier my son did too diagnosed as a sleep disorder. He would go into a deep sleep like a sleep walker and not get a signal to wake up, thus bladder never gets expanded. So he had to get lots of sleep to not make him exhausted to go into a deep sleep.

[@sandwillow63]

Elizabeth Grogan Bed wetting is hereditary. No ones fault and not due to stress. It’s sad your Mom didn’t know that, but it sounds like you didn’t let your mom’s treatment of you impact your child, and that’s the best we can do.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Patsybhad a useless mother because she set her kids up for failure in these developmental steps. Big drinks of iced tea at bedtime f0r example! Of course a kid is going t0 need the bathroom.

[@TopShelfTiaraxoxo]

A fear of falling asleep broke my heart, sorry you had to deal with that. Hope you and your daughter are living a happy life.

[@Will0wFire]

I have the feeling a family member killed her. They just seemed too picture perfect from the outside, I get the sense it was a very controlling household and the children were subjected to a form of abuse. It's so tragic and it makes me sad to think we may never see the killer come to justice.

[@kristendavis7870]

Wow I didn't get that at all.

[@TopShelfTiaraxoxo]

@@kristendavis7870 because that's not what happened imho. I will die on the hill it wasn't the parents or Burke, the parents were just so oblivious and caught up in their lifestyle that they essentially invited this to happen. They admittedly didn't keep their house secure and I believe someone figured a way to get in and lurk around or it was someone they knew or the housekeeper.

[@donnagarside8520]

Thank you both for doing these lives! I can't afford Patreon, but I respect hearing your opinions on these cases and appreciate your research and time spent bringing this to us. Thanks so much!

[@please.665]

Girl, YOU'RE THE GLOW UP OF THE YEAR! Each video you get prettier and better. I appreciate your voice, you're no nonsense, and factual. It's also exciting to see you with your husband. It's so nice to see a couple working together, as two opinions are better than one. Now with all that said, have a look at Dr. Andrew Hodges. He does "thought print decoding." He's written books on Jon Benet, and Natalee Holloway. I have yet to read the book on the Jonbenet, but his book on Joran was short, packed with a ton of info, he shows you the steps and then breaks down the communications with you. He would be an awesome person to discuss the Vallow case.

[@CluckinAround88]

Lauren is stunning!

[@Zsuh-Zsuh-Boo-Boo]

John, I love that you said Shakespeare! So much insight into the human psyche. In high school, when I was seriously considering whether life was something worth dealing with, I understood Hamlet's, "to be or not to be," monologue and was blown away to find it so relatable! I've been hooked ever since. "The Winter's Tale" is a favorite, though not as well known.

[@isisrunnels4390]

I always enjoy listening when it is just you two. I have yet to make it through an episode with Lori. I find something so abrasive about her presentation. So what a wonderful Christmas present to have just the two of you.

[@lclaire1000]

I just have to reiterate how much I love you sitting together! Dr John seems more comfy not speaking directly to camera. You two are a powerful team and are great parents. Thank you for your time, knowledge and dedication. Merry Christmas to you and your sweet Banks and to all of your family. ❤️

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

Thank you so much!

[@delindasowder9120]

I agree - I love seeing you two in the same room and he does seem more comfortable with you there- I would be the same way as my Husband is far more tech savvy than I am - anyway, love seeing you both !!

[@vicksta8875]

​@@HiddenTrueCrime To answer your questions. Patsy grew up with a father who is a 33 highest leader in the Masonic Cult. Patsy was a Rainbow girl. John is connected to Red fox island and The snow murders. Both cone from Incest and sexual abuse. Child trafficking and horrible things.

[@Ohsnap444]

This is my first time watching y'all & I'm loving it so far! Definitely one of my top two channels to binge watch now 😅 keep up the awesome work!

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

So glad you found us!

[@vicksta8875]

Same

[@careywhite2976]

I like seeing you guys do this together also. I have been watching you since the beginning. I am always so excited when a new video comes out

[@beth.icanfly3983]

Thank you for this Christmas gift!!! I too love seeing you side by side. It has been fascinating hearing you discuss the JonBenet case. I hung on every word I hope Santa helped you out and the gifts were quickly wrapped. Have a wonderful holiday!

[@beccalink5011]

Merry Christmas. Thank you for being here. I love your show. And thank you Dr. John I have a massive interest in psychology.

[@rachaeltoye4820]

Here in 2024. One of the Best Hidden True Crimes! Love John’s thesises and Lauren’s red lip!

[@Adara007]

This video was much anticipated and I look forward to your analysis, Dr. Matthias, and Lauren's opinions. As a forensic psychologist in Australia I appreciate a fellow professional providing critiques and assessments of crime cases on KZbin in particular whether closed, unsolved, and potentially needing to be reopened and investigated. The true crime genre on KZbin in particular is swamped by many channels and creators yet very few of these have the requisite training, skills, and experience in either LE or forensic psychology. As such your channel was one I and many others were very pleased to see begin on YT and to be subscribed to. Merry Christmas from Australia 😊

[@candiceyoung8244]

I'm 54, and also from Atlanta, so I followed this case very closely from the beginning. And my oldest son is the same age as Jon Benet. I also believe it was Pasty imo. God rest little Jon Benet. Shakespeare is also my favorite. Macbeth,and Othello. But I also love his sonnets. Thank you so much. Merry Christmas 🎅🏻🎁❄🧚🏼‍♀️☃️🎄🤶🏻🕯👼🏼

[@Momma-angela]

Merry Christmas y’all!! I had “absolutely nothing” for dinner tonight too! Spent my entire evening helping Santa! Awww, that was a sweet answer John, “she gave me her heart!” 💕 Thank you for your thoughts on this controversial case, always love to hear your take on a case. Y’all are the best!

[@joanlantis4497]

if my child went missing i would look in ever nook and cranny in my house.the fact they left that room undisturbed for hours is a giant red flag.

[@peggypasson8794]

I wouldn't dream of calling my friends over to the crime scene .an Jon wanting to call his pilot an carry on with holiday activities! Sickening . To me the note really pinpoints Jon . It's up to you now Jon your not the only fat cat etc . Shows a bit of emotion towards Jon.

[@DebraHarrison-b2x]

@@peggypasson8794 Not true. Patsy called their friends over for comfort and emotional support. Who wouldn't want their friends around them when they are going through a very traumatic situation?. John didn't want to carry on the holiday activities. That is a completely stupid comment!. They wanted to go to Atlanta because they considered it their home and their family was there. Again for comfort and emotional support. They also thought they would be safer in Atlanta.

[@vicksta8875]

P​@user-ox1jw7ur6g Are you plugged in?? Jonbenet was" missing" when John wanted to fly to Atlanta, for his xmass w/his other kids. What?? What parents want to LEAVE the state where your daughter is missing!!?? Even in death of JB he still wanted to take off!! Safe my Ass!! Lying COWARDS

[@barbaraanne2136]

Dear John and Lauren; I wish you a wonderful year to come. Lauren, No one in my family will discuss the cases with me. so I am here with you. The Joseph Scottt Morgan interview was so informative. Thank you for that interview and all the interesting coverage.

[@PrinceCharmingsMom2930]

Merry Christmas Lauren and Dr. John, what a great surprise!

[@libbystarke2034]

I just stumbled on your show. I love the Jon Benet coverage.

[@carolspeaks733]

Yall are informative and insightful.Thank you

[@gwendolynnorton6329]

To me, yes I understand the evidence on both sides has been contested; but what was not contested is that there was a letter, written in the home, by someone who had certain information that not everyone was privy to. Even if an intruder did have some of this information, no one is going to sit there calmly and write a long letter on a notepad that was already in the home, before wandering off to actually abduct the child.

[@karenandrews8695]

If I kill my child. First thing I am not going to do is write a ransom note with my note pad and my pen. Also Lou Smit went by a theory that a murderer is going to bring something to the murder scene and take something from the murder scene. Brought: rope, tape, beaver hair, and thread fibers not found in the house. Taken: 2 to 3 pages of paper torn out of Patsy's note 📝 book.

[@dollluv]

I felt like Patsy was extremely superficial and money hungry. Social status was everything. She was fake. She was living vicariously through her daughter and that is why she entered her daughter in the beauty pageants. Learning about the emotional anxiety level for the children in that house, proves that you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

[@vicksta8875]

NAILED IT

[@peggypasson8794]

She seemed to be very concerned about appearance . An Jon benet bed wetting was embarrassing for her ? She wanted everyone to believe they where the perfect family .An the disagreement over her shirt she wore . Some asked Ken mains who was left handed re the pineapple bowl .he said good question an so observant .

[@monicaenriquez8643]

Merry Christmas Lauren, Dr. John, precious Banks!

[@arwenhardy1995]

Merry Christmas to you both and your precious son, Banks. Great coverage and insights into the JonBenet case. P.S. I LOVE Crime and Punishment; one of my all-time favorites. Dostoevsky's insights into the depths of human nature & experience are sublime.

[@elissa6181]

Merry Christmas! So excited to hear that you’re going to cover Israel Keyes!

[@Magic-Myrlin]

Merry Christmas! I love you two and look forward spending many more hours with you.

[@roringusanda2837]

There's a reason the note was found on the back kitchen stairs, where the housekeeper and Patsy always left notes communicating with each other. No one else would know that.

[@MsElizabeth0424]

Yeah it was being set up to blame Patsy or the housekeeper. Seems like the 1st suspect for Patsy was the. Housekeeper. Patsy suspect for writing the note by many. These things tell me P wrote it but why? Protect Burke, the parents , a friend?

[@AskAlex1999]

Thank you for this video! I’m watching late, however I have vociferously absorbed everything about this case since it occurred. It is so refreshing to see you speak the obvious truths right off the bat. As educated professionals, I appreciate you not going through the fluff. We all know Patsy wrote that note, even though there are staunch supporters of the Ramseys. Once we accept Patsy wrote it, we know there was no intruder, therefore we know where responsibility lies❤

[@GoodGodManWTH]

Merry Christmas 🙂 This is my take on this. Recently two of my coworkers lost their keys, one even had her mother walk thru the yard with a metal detector and they both tore their house apart looking for the keys. If you can’t find a child your search is even more extensive. I could never understand how she was missed during the search! Who knows the house better. That has always bothered me. I know people can say they were panicking but who stops searching and she was according to them laying in a room where the window was broken. Wouldn’t you make sure that room was checked since it was vulnerable? An accident would have been reported to seek help by parents, frantic help but help. I do believe it was about anger then homicide and it came from in the house. Having lived with a mother who believed in perfection and that caused her to be violent at times and do things well … crazy! Because deep inside of her was imperfection and delusion. Her actions caused me to go inside myself for escapism and close out everything around me and when I did come back it was because she was very angry because I wasn’t answering her over something as a child is not understandable and to protect myself. This is what I think happened which led to a fatal blow. That’s my two cents! 🤷🏼‍♀️ oh and they are very manipulative mothers.

[@HumanimalChannel]

There is no window in the Cellar room where jonbenet was found. The broken window was in the basement but was in another room. They had a huge basement with a train room (indeed, the two prong marks on JBs body matches pieces of train track...), there was a storage room with the broken window with the suitcase in it that had John Andrews book, and blanket with his semen on it, and the Cellar, the room under the lunge room where patsy sat and wept all morning. You can see plans of the ramsey house. There is the basement. The ground floor with kitchen, front rooms, the front stairway going up to the first floor where bourkes bedroom was laundry facilities in the centre, and Jon Andrews and Jonbenet"s rooms at the rear, adjacent, and then a spiral staircase near the rear that went up to the top floor, John and patsy's suite, with dressing room for patsy and John's office and hos own bathroom. Patsy's shower was out of commission at the time. From John's office you could look down to see on the side of the house the broken basement window. One of two baseball bats belonging t9 the household was lying outside near by. The baseball bat is a good fit for the damage to jonbents skull

[@dennistrull1475]

GG, agreed. Wouldn't you check the most remote, darkest room first? Unless you already knew what was in there.

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@dennistrull1475 and if you knew, your private plane was n9 longer an option for escape....

[@dennistrull1475]

@@HumanimalChannel wow, the plane. What a story, in the story. Just the idea of leaving that day.

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@dennistrull1475 Dennis. Do you know about the toy plane that showed up on Jonbenet"s grave a few years ago?

[@janetbee5280]

Merry Christmas to my favorite KZbinrs & podcasts. I love your shows. Thank you for providing very professional programming. You are awesome❣️

[@deninejackson2316]

I just appreciate you both so much. You guys just have so much integrity and everything you do.

[@hallelujah969]

MY OPINION ONLY: John was gone a lot on business. Most of Patsy’s time was spent working with JonBenet, beauty pageant stuff. Burke had all his basic needs taken care of, except for quality one on one time with parents. It was all about JonBenet. She was even named after their parents. I imagine that other family members probably spoke all about JonBenet, as well as, the public. He was probably more of an invisible child, while JonBenet was a golden child. I believe John probably put JonBenet to bed like he claimed, before going to bed himself. Patsy and Burke were still awake, and Burke asked for a snack and was enjoying this rare time alone with his mother. Patsy fixed him a bowl of pineapple. JonBenet woke up and joined them in the kitchen area, which bummed out Burke, but JonBenet enraged her brother when she took some pineapple out of his bowl. He picked up the flashlight and hit her in the head, but not with the intention of killing her. Even though JonBenet was severely injured, there was no blood. John was probably alerted and put him to bed, while Patsy began coddling JonBenet and giving her pain meds. I believe JonBenet died from the blow to the head before midnight, because her parents put the date of death as 12/25. The parents claimed to not have knowledge of the bowl of pineapple nor do they claim the flashlight belongs to them. To protect their remaining child and their precious family image, the coverup began. Patsy opted to be the one to write the ransom letter, while John was taking care of JonBenet’s body. He probably planned to put her body in the suitcase, but rigor set in, and her body wouldn’t fit, so he began staging her body, making it look like she had been violated by the intruder to protect the person who had been violating her., because the autopsy would reveal it had occurred? They had probably hoped to place her in the suitcase and take her to Michigan and do something with her body there, and if that had worked, those other things wouldn’t have been done to her body. In a recent interview with Burke, he stated that his mother didn’t spank or strike them, but would fuss or raise her voice, perhaps hollering maybe but not hit. Her insanely long, ridiculously written ransom letter didn’t help their coverup. An intruder wouldn’t know whether there was dogs, guns, company, etc or if they would be out of town for Christmas. The weather was freezing cold. JonBenet’s death was unintentional, but the coverup was. I imagine that Patsy ended the 911 call prematurely, due to Burke getting out of bed and joining his parents in the room. I doubt the parents ever imagined that the death of JonBenet and the coverup would have snowballed like it did. I heard Patsy told JonBenet that she would be famous one day. How true those words came to be. I believe Patsy was an overt narcissist, while John is a covert, passive aggressive narcissist. All of this is just my opinion.

[@TopShelfTiaraxoxo]

The blow to the head came after she was strangled, that is a fact. The Ramsey family dog was with neighbors, either the Barnhills or Steins can't remember which...the family who had the dog also had a man renting out their basement and where the bicycles JB and Patsy got for Christmas were stored...they guy renting out the basement showed up to the Ramsey's the night of their Christmas party to "check up on" the couple he was renting from (again can't remember if this was the Barnhills or Steins) and Jon Ramsey invited him in. There were so many people with access to that house it's insane. I will die on the hill that it wasn't the parents or brother. There's no way any of them carried out that extent of such a brutal act to her, even Burke. I don't think he could have fashioned that garotte the way it was fashioned nor do I think he could have broken the paintbrush. The reports of him hitting her previously with a golf club my understanding it was a wiffle ball golf club.

[@sianbeecham2825]

Hang on if John put Jonbennet to bed, how do we know the abuse did not start there?

[@Deborah-qv2gp]

@@hallelujah969 thankyou

[@Dragonfly5455]

Holiday wishes to Dr. John, Lauren and Banks. Let's keep you growing in the new year.

[@sarahfauth2096]

Merry Christmas ❤️🎄 You guys rock!

[@ZeldaZelda-RichesToRags]

I found a book I must send you...hilarious adult/kids book w drawings of the man eatingflower....the illustrations hilarious...had to get it, send to u.

[@janellbeach8616]

Thank you for this Christmas gift. Wishing you both and your family a very happy Christmas.

[@madelinemahajan2808]

Wait...If this was an accident why had Jean Binet been garroted? What kind of family accident puts a garrote around the kids throat?

[@delicatevenusflytrap9091]

Exactly!!

[@DonnaLena1]

I suspect the garrote was a starling “last touch” meant to convince LE that the culprit could not possibly be the parents.

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@DonnaLena1 except, it was what killed her.... not the blow to the head

[@DonnaLena1]

@@HumanimalChannel Good point- I always forget that when I am reminded how big the crack in her skull was. Such violent wounds!

[@HumanimalChannel]

@@DonnaLena1 donna... Jonbenet s death WAS violent, WAS brutal. She suggested...she was SCARED (She peed her pants, when face down). Her murder was as violent as from any sicko serial killer or from other deaths that were accidental during autoerotica "gone wrong" yet ...this is totally....swept under the proverbial rug. And..WHO sweeps things under the rug? Communiti3s. Cultures. Look atbthe recent LINA case

[@yougotthis7723]

Great talk. Thank you for your time on Christmas Eve!!

[@ashleykane4951]

I would love for y’all to do some videos on the family background on this case!!

[@cheatednomore6430]

Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 ❤ What a wonderful gift to spend time with you both tonight 🎁 2022 will be here in the blink of an eye! May it be a fortunate & amazing year filled with love, health & more of you, Lauren & John, blessing us with unique & in depth content. All the best for Banks too! Lauren, I just have to say that you look so beyond beautiful tonight. The lipstick is perfection on you💄 I have done my best to wear that format of lipstick. It makes me bite my lip because it feels dry ☹. It is too bad because I found the best ever light lilac color 💋 I absolutely love it, but, cannot wear it!

[@jennyd9144]

All I needed was to hear Dr. Cyril Wecht's analysis of the Autopsy to determine in my mind what happened. I trust his opinion. John Ramsey AND Patsy are responsible in my opinion. I highly recommend his book.

[@jooliagoolia9959]

As ALWAYS, phenomenal coverage and information delivered w kindness and tact. 🌈 💜 🌈

[@juliemitchell6037]

I missed your live again! Merry Christmas 🤶 🎅🎄🌲🧑‍🎄🎁 Lauren I've made Funeral potatoes for Christmas dinner! My family was so excited I remembered our mothers potatoes. Much love from Maryland

[@babystepsgarden6162]

Belated Merry Christmas! I love your videos and live streams! May God richly bless you and your family through the coming year! ❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️

[@delicatevenusflytrap9091]

Have you heard about the paramedic that was early on the scene and saw the coroner's vehicle? Its from the podcast Case by Case- it seems incredibly credible. I saw the Lou Smitt doc and i was not a believer either. Love that you covered this. Dr. John's and Lauren's opinions are highly regarded. Take good care everyone!

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

We love your name!

[@delicatevenusflytrap9091]

@@HiddenTrueCrime i was hoping you would not be upset... it just seemed so fitting 😘 everyone loves my mug and asks about... then they roll their eyes when i tell them

[@mamabeardebhuskitafamily4711]

Merry Christmas from Minnesota 🎄❤️

[@miriamvolker1088]

Thank you for your amazing work! I always look forward to see the next upload! 💗 Merry Christmas to you and everyone of my fellow subscribers,too ! 🎅🌲⛄⭐ And of course I wish everybody who is not celebrating christmas a wonderful time as well ! 💫🙋⭐ Please excuse my ( surely false ) English! Best wishes from Germany!

[@KellyCeleste]

I think my issue with it being an accident is that Jon Bénet was strangled. That’s not an accident. Her head injury showed minimal blood flow which indicates that she had already passed when the head injury occurred. So, that can’t be an accident.

[@HumanimalChannel]

100% Hate, or autoerotica

[@radvibes]

Where were the parents supposed to be if they didn't do it? What was their alibi?

[@79bewareofpuppies97]

"Her head injury showed minimal blood flow which indicates that she had already passed when the head injury occurred." If JonBenet had been dead when the craniocerebral trauma had been inflicted, then the contusion on the right side of her brain wouldn't have been purple.

[@MsElizabeth0424]

@@KellyCeleste that! 🎯

[@jenniferchaney3019]

Thanks 👍 And Have A MERRY CHRISTMAS 🌲⛄⛄🌲⛄

[@camimons470]

I enjoy your channel. You have some unique perspectives. I didn't get to watch the live at the time you did it on Jon Benet, I want to make a few comments on it. In general I agree that this murder happened in the home by someone in the family probably. The ransom letter was a major aspect of the reason I agree on this. The mothers name is Patsy though, Not Patty, I haven't reviewed this case for years, but I could never forget her name. Also, the ransom note is imprinted in my mind forever. It included a lot of phrases from popular movies. Patsy had a very strange personality! There are portraits out there that Patsy had a photographer take during her cancer treatment. Patsy was nearly bald in these photos and she wore large gothic style crosses. Poor little Jon Benet was also in the photos. She was about three years old. Her little face was sad, tense and drawn in the photos. She stood by her mother like she was somehow involved in the cancer nightmare, like mother's co- star or mother's main reason for living or something. These photos look like they come from a horror movie! I think they were in black and white. I think one factor in this murder, or in the family dynamics was Patsy's fear she was going to die. I think she put this burden on the little girl primarily. Burke was not in the photos. John was not. The ransom note was adolescent in tone with all the catch phrases from movies, It was dramatic and used spy and crime vocabulary like attache' case and fat cats, etc.. I think that in a way, Patsy saw her life as a movie with her as the star. But it was a tragedy. A lost child, perhaps a lost mother in the future. And the letter used the language cancer patients use. I think the writer said the child had an 80% chance of dying if John doesn't follow the instructions of the kidnappers, There are other examples of this, So, I think Patsy's state of mind in relation to Jon Benet was one of over-identification with the child. She may have seen the child as someone to replace her and live the life she would have continued to live if she didn't die, She saw Jon Benet as a small version of herself. The cancer. coming so close to Jon Benet's birth. may have even been the cause of the cancer in Patsy's mind. She groomed the child to replace her if she died. In one of her Christmas letters Patsy said she made it through another year without cancer. I suspect that she thought she would die in the near future. Cancer and possible impending death would cause extreme stress in a family. It would change the dynamics. And Patsy had a histrionic tinge to her personality and a feeling of symbiosis with her daughter. Patsy had unresolved grief about her cancer and the possibility of dying young, Sometimes people with unresolved grief unconsciously wish someone in the family like the the dying one would die. This provides a chance to master the suppressed grief, or even fend it off because someone has died in her place. I am not convinced that Patsy killed Jon Benet though. When she merged psychologically with her daughter, she left Burke and probably John behind, Jon Benet was her life, being lived out right there in her presence. She did take risks with her daughter most parents wouldn't take. One of the friends of the family stated that Burke was extremely jealous of Jon Benet because she got most of the attention. When Jon Benet was three, the boy hit her on the head with a golf club. One source I read said that Jon Benet needed plastic surgery because of this assault. Burke also spread his feces in a box of candy Jon Benet got as a gift. And he spread his feces on Jon Benet's sheets. That was one angry boy. I personally would not let my little girl be alone with the boy for one minute! And yet, they played in the train room together. Perhaps they got up and ate pineapple in the night. I think it is possible that Burke did hit Jon Benet with the flashlight or another object. During a therapy session Burke became very angry because the female therapist accidentally picked up his soda and drank from it. He demanded a new can of soda. Imagine if Jon Benet ate some of his pineapple? It s also possible that Burke was sexually abusing Jon Benet. I worked for years with sexually abused kids. the brothers or cousins who molested younger siblings or cousins are often very jealous and angry at their victims. They were angry at their parents or caretakers. They felt the victims were treated better. I saw this many times when I did therapy with children. Sibling sexual abuse is about emotional neglect. Then I think Patsy and John covered the murder up. In a very bizarre way! In a sick way that betrays serious psychological pathology. These are my guesses on the case.

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

We know her name is Patsy. My aunt, and my friend are Patty. My son is “bud”, and my husband is “babe” yet sometimes I accidentally confuse them. One doesn’t need to “forget” a name in order to accidentally call someone a different name. Phonetic similarities seem to play a role in my personal confusion of names.

[@didirobert3657]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

[@ruthann664]

I am a new subscriber but have watched you many times. I have followed this case since the beginning…..using a dial up modem! I respect your opinion, and I’m anxious to hear your thoughts! 😊

[@tarajh]

Really enjoyed this! Thank you 🌟

[@thelilbrans]

Thanks Lauren and Dr. John!

[@pattishea2289]

If Jon was to be kidnapped why write a ransom note and then leave her in the house?

[@Sheila-u4t]

Right. ..the brother did it and mom and dad covered it up.

[@debrak8521]

Patti Shea JB was intended to be kidnapped but the killer changed the plan for some reason. Another possibility is she was never intended to be kidnapped. The killer was toying with the Ramseys, leading them to believe JB was alive and they would get her back.

[@debrak8521]

@@Sheila-u4t The brother absolutely did not hit her on the head with the flashlight. If she stole his pineapple he would have hit her immediately. She had pineapple in her stomach so that means he waited for her to eat it, then he hit her. Sounds unrealistic. Anyway Burke Ramsey would not be interviewed on the Dr Phil show if he was guilty. That would be something he would avoid.

[@patticooper6205]

Thanks for validating my original thinking.. It's all about that letter we can't get away from....

[@gigi0698]

Merry Christmas 🎄 to both of you and your family! I enjoyed your discussion about this case!

[@MsCaterific]

The first thing that popped into my head when I saw you Lauren is, Jocelyn Wildenstein. You are SO beautiful without the 'plastic'. I bring this up out of genuine concern. 💛

[@heleneocleary5888]

Happy New Year to you both and all the true crime family.

[@rachelcoloradomy3kidz778]

Merry Christmas 🎄 To my 2 favorite people! This is the precious baby girl got me into True Crime I was 20 years old and I have been a bit obsessed since that Day I saw the magazine

[@GoodGodManWTH]

And PS about the parents marriage I agree totally! 100% on you guys theory about the whole case. AND the ear buds I got some last year and FYI you can use one at a time so you have longer use. Didn’t know that at first but best info I got on them to get chores done while listening to podcast. 👏🏻

[@robynB424]

Oh my! Lots of strong opinions. Not sure anyone would be terribly surprised to know I agree with the Matthias’ family. Not sure if it was the boy in a fit of rage at his sister or the mom angry at her daughter but agree it was likely an accident…then a cover up. I’ve always thought that, and was pleased to see I’m not alone. RIP JonBenet, your death was tragic but the coverup made it even worse. To the HTC family everywhere, wishing you a joyful and safe holiday season. See you all in 2022! 💙💜💚

[@kellymc3020]

Happy holidays and blessings to you both as well as to Banks and your families ❤️🤟🎄🎅🏻🙏🏼✌🏼

[@iffyangel3380]

Merry Christmas!!!

[@hoosiernee1993]

Very Merry Christmas to you 💕

[@justicejane2429]

Merry CHRISTMAS & May God continue to Bless America🌲☃️🌲☃️🌲☃️🌲

[@peacefulpenelope5054]

I was happy to hear two of my favorite people on Christmas Eve discussing one of the saddest and baffling murder case of Jon Benet poor helpless little girl. It is a frustrating case especially because it was so obvious Patsy wrote the letter. I hope Dr. John could find out more on John and Pasty’s background. I learned so much when you both did Lori Vallows background of her family of origin. I value your insight to these horrific human behaviors. On a lighter note Lauren you made me laugh so much when you were asked what you gave John for Christmas and you said I haven’t given it to him yet. This year I was having issues getting into the Christmas thing with wrapping gifts etc. I just wanted to hand everyone their gift No Gift Bag No Wrapping Paper Just here’s your gift Merry Christmas Lol May God Bless Your Family Always 💕

[@judysibley1066]

Yes I believe it started out as an accident that had to be covered up for some reason only known to the family.

[@brettwheeler7753]

Very well presented. I'm an analytical research chemist, and in science we have to consider how ALL if the data/evidence fits. We can't just cherry-pick that which supports our cause. There are too many like Lou Smit who do/did this, i.e., fit the evidence to the conclusion. What often is ignored by the ITD crowd is the fact that SEVERAL handwriting experts, including those hired by the Ramseys, linked Patsy to the ransom note. Ramsey experts would only say that it was inconclusive. John's bonus, which was from the previous year, was $118,117.50. Patsy got close. For the BDI crowd, if he hit JonBenét with the flashlight after she grabbed pineapple, then it would be impossible for it to move through her stomach and into her duodenum where it was found. This takes approximately 3-4 hours. She was murdered around midnight, so there wasn't enough time.

[@MsElizabeth0424]

Yes this! 🎯

[@lclaire1000]

Encopresis is new information to me. Thank you, Dr John

[@TheScientificSkeptic]

Merry Christmas to Lauren and John and your beautiful little one. :)

[@LisaMitchellGD]

You guys are awesome

[@dollluv]

After listening to John’s theory about Patsy killing her daughter , it really makes a lot of sense. Thank you! I remember seeing an interview of Patsy and John well after the crime occurred and Patsy looked like she was drugged and she was a complete mess emotionally. John was very extremely non emotional.

[@vicksta8875]

John never showed emotion. Sociopaths usually dont.

[@foxibot]

The ransom note was completely bizarre, written in the house on her stationary and pen. I liked Lou Smit and think he is a good man. Maybe he got to close to the family to maintain that distance you have to have, in order not to start having feelings for the family, and maintain that professional distance, or else be manipulated. I had no idea John Ramsey admitted to entering in that window, several times. So was it fixed after he broke it? I remember Lou saying something about footprints outside the window that may have been wiped away by soon. The letter didn’t look good. I wonder though why she would kill her only daughter? Was it her frustration or maybe Jon Benet wasn’t wanting to do things Patsy’s way anymore. I would love to know what the reason was why she did it. Or was she abusive in private? I would wonder why John would cover that up? Wouldn’t he want a unstable wife gone and out of the picture for the safety of his son? Some people thought she may have been covering for John.And the spreading the feces on the wall, was greatly disturbing. That’s not normal I agree for a 9 year old. In any way. I would like to have known how she acted behind closed doors, and how he acted. She was in pageants too and her mother was a driving force behind that and was helping her push Jon Benet to do the same thing. She won a state title. So maybe the child not complying made her act out. Or maybe she didn’t feel that Jon Benet was hitting the “marks” she wanted her to hit. I was a judge for a FEW child pageants because I was asked to do it and I hateeed it, because the kids were so stressed trying to make the mother or grandmother or parent happy, we just gave one little girl a win, out of pity. Her mother was on the side lines coaching her through her little act. And you could see the stress and hesitation on the kids face. She was a mess. My mother thought I was exaggerating what I witnessed until saw until she saw that show Toddlers and Tiaras.

[@dennistrull1475]

Good insight. John said that he failed to repair the window. I believe John dismissed this as an entry point until Smit showed up.

[@DonnaLena1]

Lauren, my New Years wish for you is that the curse that seems to cause random technological issues that pop up during your most interesting episodes! Merry Christmas! 🤣🎄🎁🎄🤣

[@DonnaLena1]

That doesn’t quite make sense, does it? I meant that I sincerely hope these tech issues go away! You are obviously working hard to make this channel a professional experience.

[@dragonclaws9367]

Dr John's love of books is so enjoyable! Real paper leaves- yay! I can tell he loves them ❤. Hamlet never gets old. Othello is a doozy. I'm torn; I think it was the boy or Patsy. JR is a scary cold man to me. That family was a pressure cooker.

[@lindaholihan8705]

Thank you another great evening Merry Xmas and God Bless

[@virtue_signal_]

Very gothic, love it...

[@Greenbeans70]

I listened to the Zell brothers and they blew my mind.

[@la1930]

Thank you Dr John Shakespeare reads breakdown. I agree. 😎🔎🔍🧠👍🕊️📚

[@sharondivis1120]

I'm listening to this now...yeah, 3 days late and 3 dollars short...but I just wanted to share that I think the key in this entire case was ... the spoon, the spoon in the pineapple and that her brother had to have gotten the pineapple for Jon Benet...From knowing my own kids, when an older child fixes pineapple for a younger child, they always give it to them with a spoon; whereas adults always serve pineapple with a fork. From this, an unknown scenario resulted in the little girl's death, my guess was accidental, and then the next actions were a vain attempt at flawed coverup by people who'd probably never been within 5 miles of an actual crime scene.

[@vicksta8875]

Jonbenet had more than 'just pineapple' in her belly. Grape and Cherry skins were PRESENT as Well. Unfortunately, the Ramsey team focused on the dam"pineapple" only.... That Bowl of Pineapple was "Old".. Left out on the table with a bunch of other stuff... ☝️bowl of pineapple is a DIVERSION, a ROUGE Just as so much in this case izzzzzzz....

[@79bewareofpuppies97]

"but I just wanted to share that I think the key in this entire case was ... the spoon, the spoon in the pineapple and that her brother had to have gotten the pineapple for Jon Benet...From knowing my own kids, when an older child fixes pineapple for a younger child, they always give it to them with a spoon; whereas adults always serve pineapple with a fork." Can you scoop up cream with a fork, yes or no?

[@terrys.1401]

Great point John. If there was no ransom letter, the conversation is simple. Who all of the 3, did this?

[@snowgurl21]

Patsy wrote the note that seals the deal on who did it plus the 181K ransom which was John’s bonus that year! It doesn’t take rocket science to know who is to blame & IMO I doubt it was the son.

[@HumanimalChannel]

Patsy did have an upbringing that was difficult ... a narcassistic mother, by many accounts. She escaped through her attachment to author Muriel Sparks and her characters, including Jean Brodie. She was a young beauty queen bride to an older John Ramsey. Jonbenet's pageant costumes were replicas of Patsy's pageant costumes ... dressing a child in the costumes of an 18, 19 year old. John's current spouse Jan Rousseau now designs.... costumes for women in Vegas... Showgirl, Cowgirl..... yep. I believe patsy when she said, she would not care about bed wetting... even on Christmas Eve or Christmas day. [Patsy didn't care to Parent in that particular way]. She had a maid to clean up, and, she paid zero attention to the bed wetting prior to this. Was Burke entirely responsible for the...'scat'? That's the housekeeper's contention. It may well have been poo belonging to Jonbenet's Bichon Fraise, as if patsy would bother cleaning up dog poop, the house was actually dirty and disheveled, except for when patsy showed parts of It in her home tours. If Burke had an issue with losing bowel control, there's a dark reason that happens to men and boys (or anyone... losing rectal muscle control). And that reason could mean an anger transferred onto a little sister. Burke, John Andrew, and John Bennet ramsey all knew how to make a garotte and tie knots. They were all Scouts, and Sailors. John Andrew seemed obsessed with Jonbenet, and was much older than her and had the room next to her... and jonbenet would often be found down the other end of the house from him...sleeping in burkes room. You would have heard the "proxy" theories, too. The CBS show that "proved" Burke hit jonbenet over the head with a torch is utter propaganda and made money for the network w views and sensationalism, as well as for Burke Ramsey, his role in the family - earn. The keystone cops of boulder, there to protect and serve the influx of rich people in the 90s, are responsible for the possibility of that total misconception. The TORCH is a cop torch left behind when put down on the bench after a cursory look around the outside of the home in the dim light of morning . (My opinion, but it makes sense). Batteries put in by an officer in gloves, carried always by an officer in gloves, no fingerprints...an audit should have been done of each officer's tools of trade. If Burke did kill JB, it was sadistic, and its ludicrous to say a tall boy of nearly 13 years old was not capable of such an act. There's enough precedence in the world and Dr John would know if cases). And this is ...crass but should be mentioned since Dig.... Pen... was spoken of. An adult finger versus a prebuescent....boy's.... who knows? But maybe they had a normal and loving relationship, Burke and JB. Burke had six more years of his mother's undivided attention after JBs death. But if he was a sociopath wpuld he have gone to Uni and stayed in the rooms there and there be no real gossip about him to speak of? And if it were him, where does one learn such things, you must then ask? A disconnected mother who had turned her interest to her daughter. A father obsessed with dead daughter from prior marriage, who is always away working. Was JB always wondering when dad wpuld be home....out of love, or fear? "Access Graphics..." Amsterdam Phillipines And boulder Hotbeds (cesspools) in the 90s for dark dark things. What does access to graphics conjure up in your mind and how DID ramsey make more money than Microsoft in those years? Lockheed Martin now also seems to be code am0ngst child abu5er5, people into Ch1ld P0rn.... the latest example? KEGAN ANTHONY KLINE placing on his fake facebook resume he worked security for them. I'm sure patsy had a PD... but I'm also sire we are looking at the Sins Of The Father. In my OPINION. (Edited my typos)

[@cassandraoliva1919]

Merry Christmas 🤶 🎄 🎅

[@mirellehop]

Would you please consider discussing the Star Hobson case?

[@BedCrimeStories]

Stun gun? That's new to me. Glad to glean new details. The handwriting was also analyzed and at least one expert pointed smack at Mom Patsey. Remember, people have their public personas and their private true selves.

[@MsElizabeth0424]

No stun gun. The company that made the gun said does NOT leave those marks. It was just another deflection to support the boogeyman theory.

[@glennjones6574]

Burk never seemed even remotely normal. As a child or an adult

[@cherylbommarito5569]

If there was no ransom letter found what conclusion would you come to with JB discovered dead in deepest part of the house ?

[@libbystarke2034]

I agree with both of you. I do believe Patsy and John loved Jon Benet. I also believe it was an accident and was covered up after panicking. I do believe John Ramsey was involved with the staging/cover up. He should be held responsible in his part. RIP Jon Benet 😢

[@DebraHarrison-b2x]

@libbystarke2034 You don't love someone and do those heinous things to them. Didn't happen.

[@Lkhrobertson]

This was such a good watch. Brilliant insights. I’ve been obsessed about this child’s murder since hearing a radio broadcast about a kidnapped 6 yo girl later found dead in her own basement….crazy. Terrifically interest statement about the anxiety-driven family. Patsy, I believe, was angry at her cancer diagnosis. Agree Lou Smit totally missed the mark. Sloan Bella did a fascinating 2 part reading on JonBenet. And just want to add that Steve Thomas is a hero in this case. The description in his book of how driven, hardworking Patsy was while growing up, in school….heartbreaking. Shakespeare is enjoyable…with an interpreter. Merry Christmas 2023 to you both from Nashville.

[@MrDave1963]

I listened to the entire podcast. I started watching you both during the Delphi murders. I have to say that your approach to this interview was surprising. You have already decided that the Ramsey's killed their child. I agree that theory is certainly possible. However, until the male DNA is evaluated and a name is known - I can't come to an informed conclusion. There is one other item I have never heard anyone discuss on any podcast. If the Ramsey's did this, what was their plans in terms of disposing of Jonbenet's body? If they wanted people to believe it was a kidnapping, why leave the body in a room and not hidden in a closet or even in the backyard hidden from site? Male DNA in her underwear isn't evidence that can be ignored. I believe this case will be solved this year, but may not lead to a conviction.

[@michaeld2716]

34:40 Fed pineapple to recover... Remember, there is a pillow on the kitchen table. Even Burke will not mention the pineapple in the bowl, when questioned about what is obviously on the kitchen table, but changes the topic. There is another dimension to this problem. The Stines. The Stines were the last family visited by the Ramsey's on Christmas night. Patsy changed the story from her visiting, and the family waiting in the car, to: Patsy and Burke visiting for 15 minutes, and J.R. and JonBenet in the car waiting. The Stines are the closest neighbors ( 2 minutes away ), yet they were not called the next day. Also, the Stines were not listed as close friends, until much further in the investigation. IF JonBenet had been hurt in the car, then unconscious. Taken home. 34:40 Fed pineapple to recover... Remember, there is a pillow on the kitchen table. Even Burke will not mention the pineapple in the bowl, when questioned about what is obviously on the kitchen table, but changes the topic. The story of JonBenet falling asleep in the car, would cover J.R. carrying JonBenet in the home that night if anyone saw this. Then JonBenet is taken downstairs. Her fate sealed. JonBenet screams when she regains consciousness and realizes her injury, and put to sleep. I know that this is a stretch, but the Stines might play a role somewhere. The Stines made a 911 call from the Ramseys a few days earlier, and answered the intercom when the police arrived, stating everything was OK. Mrs. Stine later after the murder, sends fraudulent emails, impersonating the Boulder Police, to other people involved in the case. Mrs. Stine was caught, and reprimanded. Mrs. Stine stated it was an obvious joke. The Stines then follow the Ramsey family to Georgia, and Mr. Stine is employed by J.R. . Also, Mrs. Stine says that the family was "intact" when they left. sadly, "intact" might refer to JonBenet's skull, still being intact after the event. JonBenet would have survived the head blow, if she had received care. The head blow, amazingly, did not draw blood. Hard to believe. Still working the timeline on the travel. There seems to be 1 1/2 hours missing.

[@megsmann5414]

Yes love you both in the same room

[@glennjones6574]

Ok. But now why else would the D. A " believe" there was an intruder other than being influenced by the Ramseys affluence .

[@MsElizabeth0424]

$ & politics, old friends from by gone days