Chronographs - Column Wheel v Cam Lever, What's The Difference?

[@MrZeke]

fantastic example of simplifying what most try to make overly complicated. Thank you!

[@Microwave414]

I think I prefer the more pressure, tactile clack response of a cam lever but there is something about the smoothness of column wheel as well as that pop when activated. I'd certainly would want a column wheel on a dress/luxury level chronograph for it's elegance.

[@tiburonski]

I always hoped to find such a nice explaination of the difference in the working mechanism, so thank you very much for that. I have a 7750 and the Landeron 51 and maybe someday in the future a column wheel too...👍🏻 on the other hand a detailed video explaining how the components of a chronograph work at all would also help me understand. ...and I just ordered the Seagull column wheel chronograph with gooseneck regulation 😅 I just rewatched the video and a lot became clearer about the mechanisms...thanks!

[@spidiq8]

Oh very nice, I've had the 1963 Seagull on my list for some time and I will eventually cave and buy one, apparently they're a really nice movement. Has the Landeron arrived yet?

[@tiburonski]

@@spidiq8 the Landeron is in Germany at the moment so I expect it tomorrow or on Tuesday. I will let you know momentarily 👍

[@tiburonski]

@@spidiq8 I bought the beige dial one: a.aliexpress.com/_mqWhTql

[@spidiq8]

@@tiburonski Fantastic news, I look forward to pics of it.

[@sebischregi]

Great explanation. Hope to get more content like this! Thank you very much!

[@anickname6960]

Really good explanation, thank you a lot, am currently waiting (and will be waiting for a while) for my first column wheel chronograph and this video made me even more interested in it :)

[@HRM.H]

Seems like you always have videos about topics i research, thanks for the informational videos

[@spidiq8]

Thanks, I'm glad they're useful to you.

[@jesse9149]

I was hoping to see these running to see if what's happening in my vertical clutch Poljot chronograph is normal; when the chronograph hand isn't running, the coupling clutch seems sort half-engaged to the fourth wheel, making it jutter. When activating the chronograph everything meshes nicely and I don't notice any issues, but it looks weird to me.

[@spidiq8]

I can pop the back off one of my 3133's to show you at some point and upload a little clip. This is perfectly normal though, the coupling clutch pivots as you'll know and the gear on the 4th wheel is fixed, because of the arc the same meshing isn't going to be precisely consistent and because it's not a precise fitted mesh, (there has to be backlash to prevent binding), this leads to it looking like it's stop/start moving. When activated,the contact with the much finer teeth of the chronograph runner, (designed to ensure a smoother start though these horizontal clutch chrono's can jump very slightly), takes up the excess play and again needs to be adjusted precisely to prevent binding but maintain driving pressure and meshing.

[@jesse9149]

@@spidiq8 Thanks very much for the reply.

[@PpaStrmpf]

Invicta Incastar....hard to believe today that Invicta name could be on aValjoux chrono movement. Nice explanation. Thanks mate.

[@spidiq8]

Sadly the name has been sullied somewhat. Some modern Invicta aren't bad but some are frankly hideous. Like many old Swiss manufacturers these will have closed before or during the quartz crisis and the new Invicta has no connection save buying rights to the name.

[@staszeksowikowski9039]

Great explaination. And as we know all self-respecting watchmakers have a 7750 somewhere in their stash.

[@spidiq8]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it and absolutely, I think they come installed as standard on watch benches. :)

[@russellharris5072]

I have both in the Seagull ST19 and the Poljot 3133,very little difference in operation although the 3133 feels a little more crisp when activating.............................

[@spidiq8]

You'd notice with a well made and maintained vintage Swiss chronograph though. I have some 3133's which are a copy of an older Venus movement and in true Russian fashion they're a more agricultural finish and operation than the original Venus. I haven't yet used an st19, also a copy of an older Swiss movement, but imagine that, likewise, they're Little 'rougher edged' than the Swiss ones.

[@russellharris5072]

@@spidiq8 As I understand it,the Russians made some alterations to the original design one of which was to increase the beat rate.As a result of their "adjustments" parts between the original and the 3133 are not interchangeable Although I don't know if this would apply to the ST19.................

[@spidiq8]

@@russellharris5072 yes that's correct. Cosmetically thr changes are minor internally but the vph of the 3133 is 21600 rather than the 1800 of the original, presumably to improve the overall accuracy as many Russian calibres suffer from noticeable positional variation. I'm unsure also about the ST19 as I've yet to work on one but they look nicely made and I've fancied a 1963 for a while.

[@russellharris5072]

@@spidiq8 My ST19 lives in a chronograph by Timefactors and is based on equipment issued to RAF pilots,I don't wear it consistently enough to be able to give an opinion as to it's performance..................

[@spidiq8]

@@russellharris5072 I suspect based on other seagulls I've seen and worked on it'll be pretty consistent and quite accurate, they're a much better made chinese movement than any other i've seen

[@AhuCJ]

Hii! Could you also do a video on case restoration? Plating/polishing with dremel? I love your videos💯

[@spidiq8]

Thank you so much. Sadly, that isn't something I've actually tried. I don't have the skills nor materials to plate and other than basic refinishing with sanding materials and polish like brasso or autosol for example I've done no case restoration at all. There are some excellent videos on that very subject from the simple home based methods such as polishing wheels and dremels to the more professional demonstrations. Do a search for Jooltool, they look very good for case polishing.

[@mohnnadmercedes8246]

Column wheel is less reliable over time and more intensive to service??

[@spidiq8]

Usually a few more components and a little trickier to set up if things have been adjusted incorrectly but no less reliable. A more tactile feel to the pushers than a cam lever chronograph.

[@martin.B777]

Great explanation, thank you! What about horizontal vs vertical clutch? Is there a movement with the column wheel and the vertical clutch?

[@spidiq8]

Yes, the Seiko 6138 / 6139, Citizen 8110 and 8100 and the new Rolex Daytona with in house calibre are all column wheel vertical clutch chronographs. There are a couple of other Seiko models which are too but all very similar in principle to the 6139 etc. I don't recall the model numbers offhand.

[@martin.B777]

@@spidiq8 Thank you for the reply. So Speedies have horizontal clutch only...

[@spidiq8]

@@martin.B777 The Omega? I believe all iterations from the initial to later in house are all column wheel horizontal clutch type.

[@martin.B777]

@@spidiq8 Yes, Omega Speedmaster. I think, the last Speedmaster movement with the column wheel was the calibre 321 (which has been recently reintroduced with Ed White edition). I'm new to horology and always learning new things ;).

[@spidiq8]

@@martin.B777 There's always something new to learn. Believe me. I've been doing this for a number of years and I discover things I never knew regularly. I love passing on the knowledge I do have and encouraging others. This is a fascinating pastime.

[@startinsomethin]

Great video, thanks for uploading. I have a question regarding my chronograph which has a movement with column wheel... every now and then when I start and then stop/pause the chronograph and then try to start it again, it won't work (needs one or two more pushes to start again). Its pretty rare that this happens, but is it a sign of an underlying problem? (The movement is an IWC calibre 69385)

[@spidiq8]

Thanks. Glad you liked it. There are over of two possibilities depending on whether I've understood you correctly. The start stop should do exactly that per press and just rotate ad infinitum until you stop then reset. So if you're pressing to stop then pressing again to start and it doesn't but a second press does this suggests it's not turning the pillar / column wheel which can be either a build up of dirt, skin cells etc in the pusher tube preventing a full press or wear in the lever mechanism which pushes or pulls the wheel. The other possibility is, if you press to stop then again to start and it doesn't do you press to stop and then again to start and it does it indicates that something is sticking, possibly the coupling clutch mechanism. If your watch has an exhibition caseback or you are able to remove it you can operate it and watch the action and establish where the problem is. In either instance it sounds like your watch is due a service, cleaning and replacement of gaskets etc. How long since you had a service or how old is the watch if you haven't done so?

[@startinsomethin]

@@spidiq8 thanks mate, thats the thing, the watch is less than a month old. Its only happened 2 or 3 times, and i played with the chronograph function a lot :) I really want to avoid a warranty case because the problem is hard to replicate, and the warranty process takes ages and is a pain in the... 😅

[@spidiq8]

@@startinsomethin A quick check to ask and no disrespect meant. Have you had mechanical chronographs before? The reason I ask is that people who are only used to quartz are used to a gentle press of the buttons. Mechanical are very tactile and need a firm positive press. If it's not this then I recommend that you do return it, when you pay for something like an IWC you expect it to work as intended and like any watch, faulty ones can slip through, being so new you potentially have a case for replacement but certainly take it back to the dealer you bought it from for rectification.

[@startinsomethin]

@@spidiq8 hi mate, no problem, yes I've had mechanical chronographs before :) the AD said it needs to be sent to IWC to check... now my concern is they might not find anything wrong because the problem is rare... and charge me for the inspection. I might try replicate the fault while taking a video with my phone or something, I'd have to get really "lucky" though lol. Thanks for your help mate 😎

[@spidiq8]

@@startinsomethin Trying to film it is s good idea. A bit cheeky of the AD to tell you that, check the relevant sale of goods act for the country you're in. I'm sure the UK has regulations regarding items not fit for purpose which would apply to this.

[@RocketSailing]

Ty for explaining this. Exellent!

[@spidiq8]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.

[@davidobrien9362]

Nice one,I know the terms but don't know what the difference is,I know the colom wheel .