Church Discipline, Pr. Anthony Kent Highlights Some Key Reasons.

[@carlosoliveira7300]

The tension between the local church and administrative levels of the church is starting to come to a head. The old guard that just accepted every decision from administrators doesn’t cut it anymore. Administrators aren’t ready or able to deal with strong, spiritually minded local churches.

[@margaretasante3616]

I quite remember what happened to pastor Walter Veith in previous years. His sermons were not pleased with them so he was banned but look @ him . Please everyone should stand up for the truth and the truth shall set us all free.

[@juleebishop5735]

@@margaretasante3616 Got that right. He is a wonderful pastor too.

[@earlysda]

Walter Veith is mostly spot-on, but he has some anti-biblical, anti-Ellen White writings messages too, so we need to pray for him to speak only truth.

[@juleebishop5735]

@earlysda I disagree fully, but we can agree to disagree

[@earlysda]

@@juleebishop5735 Julee, So you believe Walter Veith is mostly in error?

[@schooloftheprophets1844]

The wheat and the tares grow together till the harvest, welcome to the harvest

[@carrieteal4886]

My thoughts are this... If they want to correct false doctrines then they better start from the top or this looks like favoritism or a vendetta against Vine and Kelly. Also if they were more transparent and allowed meetings to be taped then people will have a clearer perspective on the situation then he said or she said attitude because thats acting like Adam and Eve scene after they were caught. Plus if GC would have took a different stance on vaccines than none of this would have happened so honestly this steams from another person's pride and neglect.

[@brendadegale4578]

No they have not been dealt with according to the word of God and this has caused unhappiness and distress in the village Church and also internationally because we are a family. The family of God.

[@DebraWebber-sc2wh]

Jamie,I am not going to say to much,but the way they handled,Kelly,Vine,THE CONFERENCE should be very ashamed how they handled this BIG TIME,THATS ALL I AM GOING TO SAY 16:21

[@berylcunningham1328]

Matthew 7:15 - Remember that there aŕe ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing among us. God told us to beware of them. Let us follow God's command. Blessings.

[@gabriellebrowne1388]

so why is Diop not removed, he is a sympathizer and supporter of Rome

[@juleebishop5735]

@@gabriellebrowne1388 Bet you won't get an answer to that from the GC.

[@christiedecker2724]

When I was a young newlywed, my parents and another family from church was in the habit of meeting together for a pot luck lunch after church. They decided to conduct a branch Sabbath School for the community around the friends' home where they met. It was going very well and had regular attendees. They used the Sabbath School lessons for their studies. Their local church disciplined them for doing this without coming and asking permission from the local church leadership. A younger sister who was in boarding academy was even censored. My parents were disfellowshipped. The rest of my younger siblings including the sister away at academy were all censured. After a year, they offered to restore all to full membership. My mom, who had terminal cancer, refused their 'offer'. (They had to cease and desist the branch Sabbath School). She said her name was on the books of Heaven, she did not need membership in a local church.) I did not live this, I was married and my membership moved to a local church, this is what I was told by family.)

[@SteveFrey-jg3wd]

I am saddened to hear your story. It sounds like the disciples who tried to silence another for speaking and baptizing inJesus’ name.

[@lynnehughes8673]

So sad to hear your story but not unusual

[@christiedecker2724]

@@lynnehughes8673 Sad that it is 'not unusual'. Egos, pride, sinfulness.

[@berylcunningham1328]

They have double standard. I think. What about pastor Diop. Revelation 14:6-12 is not man's command, its from God. God commanded that this message of warning is to be preached to all the world before He comes. However, pastor Diop said the he doesnt preach Revelation 14:6-12. However, all the leaders 'seem' to ignore that statement 'maybe' the tithes is more important that that statement??

[@johnmcminnpatterson]

It’s really quite sickening.

[@godfreypeters6653]

Have MERCY of your folk God

[@hanson61]

18:50 Pastor Mark Howard claims that Pastor Kelly was punished (will not use the euphemism "disciplined") because he was unwilling to remove Conrad Vine from his church positions. Why is Pastor Howard being more forthright with us, and Pastor Kelly, than the MI Conference??? IF (and that is a big leap) this is the reason the MI Conference punished Ron Kelly, why didn't they say that FROM DAY ONE??? I don't think my question will ever be answered. This is really sad. However, it is opening the eyes of many SDAs. Maybe something good can come of it.

[@thomasnickel1278]

I don't want to hear anything from the conference these days they've lost all credibility to me.

[@juleebishop5735]

@@thomasnickel1278 I kinda share that sentiment. They have become woke and I don't feel they're upholding our beliefs. Should never had 501's with the government & should never have taken government money. All institutions were to be small and debt free. We were not to join hands with catholics either. They turned their backs on the members, cost them their jobs, homes & families, expressing no shame for doing so. Now they shut down the Religious Liberty week end at the Village Church. That says 1 thing. They're preparing for the next round with the government & their future dollars.

[@SteveFrey-jg3wd]

I don’t think the process has been fair or open. Elder Micheff admitted in the town hall meeting that while he had listened to the whole sermon of Dr Vine, the committee members only heard excerpts. If the messages are not listened to as a whole (all four Maine presentations) the context is missing and wrong conclusions will be drawn. The committee heard sound bites, they voted on partial info. Was this purposely done by Elder Micheff and the Michigan conference?

[@hanson61]

The committee should have known something was up when they didn't get the whole video.

[@christiedecker2724]

Lying by omission? Is that not guile?

[@z.louisecoombsrambouillet8395]

Pr. Conrad did not call for a para-church or redirection of tithe!!!!! He even reiterated that fact! If you listen to his sermon, he said that if the GC doesn't apologize, take responsibility and create reconciliation. Then, the next time something like this happens, and if the GC throws us under the bus again, that's when we would have the right to a pair of church and redirection of the tithe. This is something that even Ellen White speaks about, so he was not calling to do this but that in the future, if they do this to us again, we would be within our rights. The amount of people that misunderstood this and did not hear what he said and what he meant is why there is so much confusion because no one took the time to really hear what he said. And that's why Pastor Ron did not remove Pastor Vine from his positions because there is a system in place that is supposed to take place in order to have any kind of discipline. There was no hearing there was no him being able to defend his case or explain himself or bring in Witnesses or any of that that everybody has a right to. This is why they removed pasture Kelly because he refused to put into effect things that were against the church manual and bylaws and whatnot. He may have said things wrong but he was not wrong in what he was saying. However, the main thing was that the only way for this to come to light was for him to stand up and tell the members because he used Matthew 18 and with many other people started at the top with the issue of Liberty of conscience and the vaccine mandates and the general conference refused to be on its members side and was on the side of those who created the vaccine and the government and whoever else that was pushing and making money from the vaccines

[@gelubalaban9637]

I wish all pastors are like pastor Vine, and pastor Kelly i would return 20 %..

[@elliechopper7836]

Why don't you return 20% now? It's God you're returning it to, not man. No man asked you to return it. It was God. Why don't you feel the same towards God as you do towards Kelly and Vine. All that you own belongs to God. God is asking you to return His money to Him, not your money. I, too, enjoy Vine and Kelly's pastoring, but they are not God. I don't like how they have been treated, but Jesus did say His people will be persecuted, but they will have peace.

[@Annie-me9sk]

​@@elliechopper7836the second 10% is personal choice.

[@johnmcminnpatterson]

Popery on full display!

[@bruceplahtinsky3028]

It appears that there are two different standards for religious liberty. Those that preach according to are historical viewpoints are dismissed or censored and those who are not in harmony with our historical viewpoints hold high positions

[@patriciajones1936]

I do Not believe that proper procedure was used. I support 100% Pastor Ron Kelly and Pastor Conrad Vine, who have both been transparent in their reasoning and integrity. The Michigan Conference leadership acted independently and have not been transparent or acting with integrity based on the Church manual.

[@tjsskier]

No… the early church was founded on the concepts of “bottom up” leadership with a shepherd as a leader… not a heavy handed “top down” leader who uses censorship and coercion. Our nations Constitution uses the same concepts of due process and rule of law that protects individual freedom in our founding documents. I was raised in Michigan and I personally know people on both sides of this issue and we cannot let this divide our church. 🙏

[@willrobinson247]

Should church discipline be done on a man that say "IF" the church partake in future mandates the church members will be within their rights to support only Conference and Conference leaders that teach the biblical gospel and the Historic Adventist message? Should there be church discipline handed down on a Pastor that refuse to discipline that Elder that made a "IF" statement based on a Conference action that hurt members? How can any church take action on any members who makes a "IF" statement based on a Conference FUTURE ACTION that had never taken based? Dr.Vine said these things actions that he suggested would be within the rights of the members based on a violation of conscious/liberty issue. He said it would be in their right to take their tithe and give it to the Conference to support Pastors and Conference that teach biblical truth and form Parachurch groups that teach biblical truth. Dr. Vine and Kelly were discipline on a "IF" that has not happen yet or may never happen. THIS IS INSANE. They are making it seem like he call for the members not to pay tithe and is forming off-shoot groups. Which he is not the case. AGAIN, THIS IS INSANE. How can these educated men, men of God and leaders do this to these men based on a condition "IF" they promote future mandates. They won't to discipline these men, but they don't want to offer an apology for those souls that lost jobs, marriages and health because of the choice the Conference made. Who should be disciplined here? The Conference or these men? Folks we better pay close attention to this. Pastor Kelly was accused of BULLYING. But let's be honest who looks like the BULLY here? Hmmm.....

[@PrJamesMedia]

If is a huge statement

[@alamelachoi8906]

Because we have no such doctrine from the Bible or EGW, so Vine and Kelly have no right to come up with a what if scenario and solution. Also, people are already returning the tithe to independent entities who are taking Vine's stance as a way to justify their actions. So Vine and Kelly are fueling false doctrines we do not have. Let God lead the church and stop worrying about future events not spoken of.

[@cindybuell]

Quick correction, clarification - Conrad is ACCUSED of calling for a para church organization but he simply said that could materialize in the future IF the GC fails to support religious liberty IN the future. Just a clarification 😊

[@LeonardPond-yr6ji]

I've heard nothing about them coming to Pastor V. and talking to him prior. Or anything about the 6 to 12 months of " vacation for reflection " what about it ?

[@terryclapper4652]

A simple Matthew 18 would be the thus sayeth the Lord. Both Vine and Kelly did not get a thus sayeth the Lord. And the process was speedy.

[@christiedecker2724]

Kind of reminiscent of another 'speedy trial'?

[@susanjohn3813]

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT JOSEPH BROTHERS WERE WICKED TO HIM, BUT GOD ALLOWED IT SO THAT JOSEPH COULD HAVE GONE INFRONT TO SAVE GOD'S PEOPLE FROM FAMINE. GOD TAKES DOWN AND SET UP. I I BELIEVE THAT GOD IS CHOOSING FAITHFUL MEN TO LEAD HIS CHURCH. VINE AND KELLY CAN BE THE ONES WHO GOD IS USING TO BEGIN THE LAST REFORMATORY WORK BEFORE THE SUNDAY LAW. MANY MORE WILL COME.

[@Annie-me9sk]

Yes, I see this too. At the moment it is an embarrassment to bring in new converts.

[@derekbrant2240]

I don't know all the details, very few do, and that is the problem here. The Michigan Conference appears to be in the wrong. Conrad Vine shouldn't have been banned and Ron Kelly shouldn't have been fired, administrative leave, excuse me.🙄 The information that is available doesn't merit such discipline. The fact that the Michigan Conference wanted the town hall meeting at the Village Church to not be live streamed is quite telling. There were several phones recording it and a few were live streaming it anyway. What is the Michigan Conference trying to hide? There was already backlash from Conrad Vine's ban. Then Ron Kelly's firing. The Michigan Conference just keeps adding fuel to the fire. The only way to settle this is to have an open and honest dialogue in a live broadcast. It probably won't happen, but it should, to quell all the parking lot committee conversations. 🙏🏼📖

[@tonni2858]

Pastor James, I am a subscriber and I regularly view your channel...with the utmost respect, please stop inserting those secular clips. They add nothing to the discussion, and are infact distracting. You have really good content and it's able to stand on it's own merit. The inserts seem to be an attempt at sensationalism...no need. Your channel has been a blessing to many. Keep up the good work!

[@willrobinson247]

This is madness. Pastor Vine is banned from pulpits. Pastor Kelly has been put on administrative leave. But has the Conference apologized for all those that lost jobs, marriages ad health? Hmmmm......

[@rustychace3253]

Get an attorney on here who specializes in corporate law and risk management. Church Manuel talk is just talk as it no longer holds any force in the corporate setting.

[@alricklothian6452]

There should be no action against any of these pastors until the meaning and intention of the statements are ascertained and clarify. I think it is unfair to to discipline some on a misunderstanding. What did these pastors mean with their statements.

[@paraquepossamos]

You guys dont know Brazilians SDA leaders...but you will know.... soon in 2025... I am really trying to alert, what is coming is ugly.

[@christined5575]

Huh?

[@chuckmiddaugh7908]

Can we / should we know more?

[@Behold-I-Come]

SOP has warned us, are our hearts pure?!

[@hilltopgirl2665]

The only thing which is being addressed, and drawing all the attention, is the two serving members involved! What Pastor Vine said is not being talked about. Nor is Pastor Kelly's right to support him. SDA now Supports all sorts of previously disallowed things, but that is ok. Not ok with many of the members, but unmentioned by the bending over backwards world pleasing conference. There are hard decisions to be made, and no one will enjoy them. COVID wrecked a few things on the way through, and its affects not going away. We have to stand. Can we underline Unity and Support of members in that manual?

[@AlainChitic]

I said no it wasn't fear

[@elainegarcia3456]

They are insinuating that the pastors have done something terribly wrong.😮

[@AnthonyBates-yd6wc]

No need to put movie clips in the analysis. This distracts from the sacredness of this discussion.

[@kln4863]

Doctor conrad vine and pastor ron kelly were dealt with wrongly, and they deserve to be treated fairly, which they were not.

[@rosessithole511]

NO!

[@dr.g1482]

I think everybody can see a huge double standard.

[@elainegarcia3456]

Not fair

[@ahvc6180]

NO.

[@juleebishop5735]

Could you please remove yourself when you play or display something? It takes away from the focus.

[@jennbrandys]

Family guy? 😳

[@Behold-I-Come]

Redemptive Discipline is selective by the church. I wish it would happen the way he states, especially for such a public case. I wish we would stop harboring and take action and move on. Souls are dying for the gospel and we are tied up in minor issues and this is minor. Question: did the pioneers have a church manual, if not, then why do we need one? Someone didn’t take the correct steps in PKs case and it has brought a lot of shame and hurt. Lord forgive us!!!

[@judyshivers447]

No

[@claudetteharris7246]

No way has Dr C Vine and Pastor R Kelly been fairly dealt with. Failing a reversal of the unjust decision of the Michigan conference incited by the GC for whom I’ve had no regard for a few years now, I’ll have no support or respect for them. The handwriting has been on the wall long enough!

[@els6561]

You have covered the so-called wrongs of Pastor Kelly and elder Vine would like to hear an address about the wrong of mischief and the improper way of him, removing Kelly and Vine There is an imbalance of attention in this mischief needs to be held accountable for his actions that are clearly in the wrong of the so-called church manual By the way, the Bible should be our church manual not some man-made explanation of what’s wrong and right way of doing church business

[@dawnawest3610]

Not fair at all.

[@gwenhartman539]

No!!

[@PhyllisHernandez-c1l]

Absolutely NOT!

[@Affliatesusan]

Aren’t you presuming that they did something wrong?

[@ToakaseWilliams]

It is absolutely wrong what they did to Dr vine and Pastor Kelly try and Reverse it to them if it happened to them it's all power Controldo it to Diop and see how he feels

[@elainegarcia3456]

This man seems too polished; phony.

[@robinblackman9768]

As I said I love to read the comments,and listen to the different members commenting on this situation, why are people referring to different situations or issues when the conflict is about Vine and Kelley. These are not the first that face this kind of hostel treatment,Do anyone remember PAUL MILLER from the Bahamas why was he disfellowship? How can we say we are Bible believers,we created a church manual,We love to quote Ellen White,has we ever seen the quote from her after the church manual was rejected twice by the early members,ELLEN WHITE SAID (THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE SHOULD BE OUR MANUAL,IF WE HAVE A MANUAL PASTORS WILL NO LONGER SEEK GOD’S GUIDANCE WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM THEY WILL DEPEND ON THE MANUAL): We have reached the point where neither Bible nor manual means anything to our leaders ,JUST MONEY SO VINE OVER STEP AND KELLY TRY TO IGNORE IT MONEY.

[@patriciaheinrich6857]

No

[@flipflt]

No