CinemaScope vs Todd AO

[@Dstonephoto]

Learned some really interesting stuff from this. Superb presentation. Thanks for sharing.

[@debranchelowtone]

Cinerama system is based on an invention made 25 years before by Abel Gance and this was called Polyvision. The Cinemascope is based from an invention made also 25 years before by Henri Chrétien and called Hypergonar.

[@RadioJonophone]

I saw Ben Hur in Todd AO in the Leicester Square Odeon in glorilous 2.76:1 wrap-around with vibrant multi channel sound i n 1961. I was blown away by the experience. I was fortunate to have a mid-auditoruium seat level with the screen. Close enough to see the skin pores of Charlton Heston, yet in just the right place for that wrap-around experience.

[@paulsartana1785]

Ben-Hur was filmed in a process called MGM Camera 65 which was later renamed Ultra Panavision. So what you saw was not Todd-AO.

[@RadioJonophone]

@@paulsartana1785 I believe you are right. The cinema was equipped for Todd-AO but was showing a single projected image. Since making that comment I did a bit of research. Thanks for pointing it out.

[@JoseMorales-lw5nt]

10:03/ God bless you, Mike Todd. You're understanding of the human optics system is commendable. To appreciate the genius of that 128° Perspective, try this experiment. Find a highway or expressway near you that has a pedestrian viaduct. When foot traffic isn't too busy, head to the center of the span and stand dead center of the pathway. As the traffic passes under you, look straight ahead. You'll find your eyes compensating for depth perception by allowing you the view ahead of you while taking in the view of vehicles passing under you from each corner of your eyes. You'll see the visual effect clearly whenever a long tractor trailer passes under you. Your eyes, like the TODD-AO lense, will pick up the moving image as a bow shaped figure when you know the truck is rigid and linear. Have fun...🇵🇷🇺🇸😎📽🗽🦂

[@hebneh]

"Today, to get the public to attend a picture show / It's not enough to advertise a famous star they know / If you wanna hear applauding hands resound - / You gotta have, glorious Technicolor, breathtaking Cinemascope, and stereophonic sound..."

[@barryobrien7935]

Silk Stockings, Fred Astaire and Janis Paige

[@hebneh]

I don't think I knew that every single scene of "Oklahoma!" had to be shot completely twice with two different cameras and filmstocks.

[@johnlynch4901]

I heard that this is why Frank Sinatra was let go because he said if it's going to be filmed twice he wanted to be paid twice. The producers wouldn't have it so they hired Gordon MacRae.

[@darthkurland]

There would be two more Rodgers & Hammerstein film adaptations shot in Todd-AO: • “South Pacific” (1958) And • “The Sound of Music” (1965) The former was the last film adaptation that Oscar Hammerstein II would live to see before he passed away in 1960.

[@mchammer5592]

When you come here to quickly decide what version of Oaklahoma to watch and get riveted learning about lens types.

[@Signalelectrician]

There were only two features made in Todd AO they were Oklahoma and Around the World in Eighty days and two shorts The Miracle of Todd AO and the March of Todd AO. All of course at 30 frames per second everything else was then changed back to 24 frames per second.

[@Chowringhee]

Excellent production.

[@78Dipar]

The first wide screen process wasn't CinemaScope, it was Cinerama in 1952, which used a triple camera with a 146° wide angle covering most of the human field of vision. Projection needed three projectors (and a fourth one for magnetic sound) on a giant deeply curved screen. the result was huge, but the system was complex and costly to operate, so Fox created CinemaScope in 1953, using ananorphic lens with 35mm film to achieve a cheaper wide screen process. But shooting and projection angle were very far from the Cinerama 146° and didn't provide the same immersive effect. CinemaScope was called the poor man's Cinerama... Todd AO was an attempt to make a single film Cinerama, using a 65mm film and a 128° lens made by AO (Amercian Optical). But this 128° lens had important distortion ans was hardly used, most of the time conventional angle lens were used, as a result the immersive effect of Cinerama wasn't achieved. So Todd AO failed as a single film Cinerama, it was rather a "high definition" process, giving a much better image quality than CinemaScope. Same thing for Super Panavision, similar to Todd AO.

[@hebneh]

Actually there had been widescreen film formats in the 1920s.

[@78Dipar]

@@hebneh I know, such as "Grandeur" which used 70mm film , giving a 2:1 aspect ratio. But they weren't much used and were quickly dropped.

[@raywatts7689]

Everyone forgets probably the first wide screen film. John Wayne’s ‘The Big Trail’ (1930) Shot on 65mm stock in black and white. The definition is amazing even by today’s standards.

[@78Dipar]

@@raywatts7689 This was the "Grandeur" process with 70mm film I mentionned, but which was unfortunaly quickly dropped. Before that there had beed Abel Gance's "Napoleon", with the last part filmed with a triple 35mm camera, the forerunner of Cinerama ! I have seen once a presentation of "Napoleon" with triple projectors for this last part...

[@rossmurray16]

Was "Oklahoma!" the only film to have been shot two separate times for the CinemaScope and Todd AO cameras?

[@bryanstewart1256]

Yes.

[@rossmurray16]

@@bryanstewart1256 That's so fascinating. I'm assuming they stopped doing it because it cost a lot of extra money and time?

[@bryanstewart1256]

@@rossmurray16 I think they were simply testing Todd-AO 70. It was the first film in that format.

[@darthkurland]

@@bryanstewart1256 obviously, the testing ground of “Oklahoma!” proved to be a success not just for Rodgers & Hammerstein, but also for Mike Todd who invented the new system.

[@terryasheim9038]

Seven Brides for Seven Brothers was also shot twice, but not in Todd AO.

[@VideoArchiveGuy]

This glosses over the fact that CinemaScope was designed to be exhibited at "up to" 2.66:1, but has now been standardized at 2.39:1. 1956 CinemaScope for Oklahoma! was indeed 2.35:1. Now Mike Todd's desire to present the best picture ever is viewed by far too many on cell phones. 😢

[@78Dipar]

CinemaScope early experiments, with sound on a separate film was indeed 2.66, but it wasn't commercially used. The first CinemaScope films with 4 tracks magnetic sound were 2.55. For better compatibility with theaters not having magnetic stereo sound, an optical sound track was added, aspect ratio was then reduced to 2.35. Later it was standarized to 2.40 by slightly reducing image height. Todd AO was from the start 2.20 on 65/70mm film, so did Super Panavision which was similar to Todd AO. Ultra Panavision was 2.75 thanks to 1.25 anamorphic lens.

[@25Wineman]

Elizabeth Taylor was paid $1M for Cleopatra. She then insisted that Todd AO be used. She then charged another $1M for the use of the system!

[@keithnaylor1981]

Why show clips from OKLAHOMA to demonstrate 3-Camera CINERAMA when Oklahoma was not made in Cinerama?

[@Gurpreet_Cheema_dp]

Thanks a lot!

[@ronz101]

Very impressive. Yet it ALL started with the CINERAMA concept. Absolutely agree that CINERAMA was bulky.

[@JoePlett]

I love Hollywood's response to the threat of TV: The PR blitz "Movies Are Your Best Entertainment" 😁 Was there a TV troll running Hollywood's PR machine? Or was the industry just oblivious to acronyms? 😎

[@eleanorpowellfan]

Fortunately, Gloria Grahame looked as good in CinemaScope as she did in Todd AO.

[@edwardbell8070]

70mm unsurpassed.

[@circusitch]

Wow. No wonder Elizabeth Taylor married him.