Therapist Reacts to THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

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[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

Hi Jonathan, Hi Alan, I’m not sure you guys read the comments, but if you do, are you surprised by how many viewers are far more critical of Andy’s friends and her boyfriend than of Miranda? What do you make of some of the arguments listed in the comments?

[@Tman001100]

I feel like Miranda came off more Cruella Deville than what was intended. 🤔🤣🤣

[@sawanna508]

@DevelpmentandAnthropology Clearly you don't understant feminism and blaming patriarchy for a lot of problems and heardship many women have is not narrcisim.

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

you guys should talk about the movie Whiplash

[@iantophernicus6042]

People say she sold her soul for shoes. I don’t think she did. Miranda made it clear she didn’t respect or value Andy’s efforts to help her until she changed the way she showed up at work each morning. It was Andy showing her she was taking fashion seriously that made Miranda take her seriously in turn. Miranda is this all encompassing presence, so confident in her knowledge of people and fashion, she will force them to choose between life changing decisions, with little regard for what that would mean for them. Emily was cut out because Miranda thought that Andy could do it better, so she forced her to choose.

[@trinaq]

Not only did Meryl Streep suggest "Everyone wants to be us", as opposed to the scripted "Everyone wants to be me", but she also proposed Miranda constantly speaking in a hushed tone, rarely raising her voice, causing people to have to lean in to hear her, symbolising how Miranda is the centre of the universe, pulling people into her orbit.

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

16:26 I disagree with the criticism of her ‘putting the walls up again’. At that point, she probably has exactly 2 options left, she either puts her feelings in a drawer and focuses on something else, or she breaks down then and there. And honestly, that breakdown is for her 200$/hour therapist to deal with, not an underpaid 20-something intern.

[@rockstopsthetraffic]

​@@venanziadorromatagni1641still a decision by a movie character to display for the audience.

[@ztslovebird]

If she didn’t get the Oscar for this role, what is even the point of the Academy?

[@valvihk3649]

I love that because she made Miranda complex, she is not just a devil. She takes out the idea of narcissism by being inclusive "us," but at the same time shows her own power and importance to the industry by her demeanor which can be perceived as narcissism.

[@Sate12]

She also chose to have the no make up look for the scene where she talks about what the divorce means in her life

[@swamplinglvr]

Apparently Meryl Streep based her performance as Miranda off of Clint Eastwood. She was like, "When he talks, everyone has to quiet down and lean in and listen carefully". What a brilliant idea!

[@RedMoonSolitary]

Wait, what?? 😂

[@angeliquecheung574]

Yes, it is amazing. It is just terrifying when Miranda actually said Andy's name the first time after she got in trouble. Hearing that scene, I just thought, "Oh, she is f***ed."

[@ariwl1]

Yeah. What makes Miranda all the scarier is that she never really raises her voice, swears, or anything we typically think of bad toxic people doing. So her disappointment is all the more palpable AND makes it much more likely that you'll actually believe you screwed up even when it was her treatment of you and unreasonable demands that were really the problem.

[@TheMrsWatcher]

What a GOAT

[@coreycox2345]

It was Mike Nichols, @swamplinglvr.

[@AxelQC]

Miranda isn't a devil because she's mean; she's the devil because she tempts others to betray their morals. Andie betrays Emily at Miranda's behest. Andie quits because she realizes that Miranda is turning her into another devil.

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

I’m still confused about the ‘Andy betrays Emily’ part. My recollection is that Emily breaks her leg basically while Andy is still pondering how to handle the whole Paris situation. The broken leg simply makes it redundant for her to even make a decision. Also: What does she think would happen if she refused to go to Paris? Miranda didn’t want to take Emily (to what degree that even constitutes a ‘betrayal’ in a workplace situation is a question of its own), so if Andy had refused to go, wouldn’t she simply have taken a third person?

[@xragdoll5662]

⁠@@venanziadorromatagni1641Miranda told Andy to tell Emily before she ended up hurting her leg. She was literally on the phone to Emily about to tell her when it happened. Maybe she wouldn’t have gotten hit by a car if Andy didn’t call and just waited. But after Emily can’t remember the name of someone at the gala, Miranda decides she wants Andy to go to paris and tells Andy to tell Emily

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

@@xragdoll5662 No, Andy calling is NOT responsible for Emily running into the street like a headless chicken. “I eat nothing *until I’m about to faint*, then I eat a piece of cheese” is a far more likely cause for her inattentiveness that caused this accident.

[@AxelQC]

Emily was planning to go. Andy stole her dream when Miranda offered it to her. Miranda even says so in the Paris scene. @@venanziadorromatagni1641

[@sawanna508]

@@venanziadorromatagni1641 I think it is a combination of several things. When Andy calles Emily. Emily is already compeletely stressed out from running errants she has to do before leaving and on top of that being on a phone is destracting enough it is forbitten while driving a car or a bike.

[@TheSchaef47]

I think that the beeper is a brilliant piece of sound design. Not just the tone and timbre, but the volume, it cuts right through everything else in the scene. It doesn't just disrupt the conversation she's having, it's so jarring it disrupts us from *watching* the scene. We're taken out of the moment and we feel the aggravating of the friends and family being taken out of their moment.

[@jamiegdubois]

I just noticed how Andy’s hair changes throughout the film. She starts without bangs and then gets them as she’s starting to adapt to Miranda’s lifestyle. But in the car scene in the end, you can see the she has started to push her bangs to the side again and reveal more of her face, like she did in the beginning of the movie.

[@mollymcbride2481]

As a kid I loved her long hair with bangs , even now at 25 I’ve finally got my andy hair

[@oceanmariep256]

Andi doesn’t go back to her old target clothing lifestyle. By the end of the movie she’s still dressing fashionably, even if she’s given the designer clothes to Emily. She’s grown to respect the fashion world and she’s chosen to take the knowledge she’s acquired through it with her as she pursues her true passions. She did change, as she needed to, not because she was worthless if she didn’t live up to Miranda’s standards, but because she needed to grow and expand her worldview for her own good.

[@hannahgray6931]

You summed this up perfectly!

[@FargonNemeloc]

You'll never leave a place the same way you went in

[@adrichiii839]

Exactly! The storytelling and character development throughout the movie is one of my favourites! You can see a clear distinction from how she dressed before (frumpy, not colour coordinated, messy hair, etc) to after her time at Runaway (less flashy but well fitted outfits that coordinate by colour, sleek yet casual hairstyles that suite her face). It's such a good representation on Andy's development as a post-grad student to confident working woman.

[@kendallbrooke3408]

Exactly! I feel like Miranda's mentorship did give And the skills she needed to become a successful journalist. Even though Miranda did not have the best approach, Andi learned how to be confident in herself and handle any difficult task thrown her way. Also journalists have to care about their appearance to some degree if she was planning on reporting on live television. So she did learn that what we wear does affect the way we are treated. It's like the whole dress for the job you want not the job you have.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Exactly. Well said. And I loved her fashion sense afterward. It suited her very well.

[@trinaq]

The older I get, the less I sympathise with Andy's friends and boyfriend. They toss her phone around when her boss is calling, criticise her for dressing nicer, even though she has to make an effort when working at a fashion company, yet have no problem with accepting expensive gifts she gives them from work. Her boyfriend gets upset at her for missing his birthday, even though she had no real control over it.

[@SusanDelgado1177]

Same. I hated that douche

[@sintrovert]

100%. They happily accept the fruits of Andy's job, then mock her for it. It is explicitly stated in the film that she just has to survive Miranda for a year and then she can essential write her own ticket in the industry.

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

And, if I remember correctly, he is working late as a chef so often, has this ‘no reservations’ restaurant as a passion project, yet he never supports or even attempts to understand Andy’s passion for her first job. (Which might be a bit much, but that seems far better than her jaded attitude in the beginning. Getting over-jaded will happen on its own as worklife progresses. 😉)

[@TheSecondOne123]

I always hated them. More than Miranda. Miranda knows what she is. The friends and BF are assholes while pretending they aren't. They are the true villains to me lmao

[@JakeKilka]

Andy is a masochist, being mocked while she fulfills others needs gives her purpose

[@mizv4043]

"if you're being abused by your boss you can choose another path" thats not always true, especially if youre poor or struggling. there are so many people out there that endure the abuse because the alternative is homelessness, not eating or losing their kids

[@alatielinara]

yeah, and changing a job, finding new opportunities takes time, and during that time you will still have to deal with bad boss. Not everyone has a second option.

[@nephtys369]

It took me two years to get out of a job I had to take because it was the only option. You can’t always just leave. Edit: unless you don’t need to eat

[@wattw3900]

You can still choose another path without making an immediate decision that would have more negative than positive effects. People always say this and while I understand, why tell yourself you are stuck somewhere? And doesn’t telling yourself you have no choice reinforce the fact that you have no choice? Idk just food for thought

[@hinahinananoha7783]

It's important to point that path out. Many people who are not struggling to eat still make excuses for bosses like Miranda. In many countries with super strict cultures people literally commit suicide because of awful abusive people like this.

[@kittikats]

​@wattw3900 you can't just positively think yourself into a new job. It's very common for people in America to write in about the hundreds of applications they've sent, the handful of interviews they've been on and zero positions they've been offered. Job hunting is hard because in some industries / areas there really isn't anything available. So if you're stuck with crap bosses, what do you do? Take easier, lesser paying jobs but have 2-3 of them to make up the same amount of pay? Leave without anything lined up and hope to GOD you find something? Shut up and keep working but look for a new job on the sly?

[@errolteichert3052]

I was surprised Alan didn't talk more about Miranda's entrance into the movie. It's arguably the best I've ever seen. We hear that she's on her way, and immediately people bustle around getting ready for her arrival. A woman changes her shoes to be more fashionable. Another woman reapplies her makeup. We see Miranda's feet as she goes into the building, but not her face. One woman, upon seeing that Miranda is going to get into the elevator she's in, APOLOGIZES to Miranda and goes to another elevator. All of this happens before we see Miranda's face for the first time. Before we even meet her, we're told so much about her. It's absolutely brilliant. Terrific writing and filmmaking. *chef's kiss*

[@titheproven954]

Just for comparison the next best example I can think of like this, is freaking John Wick. Miranda could kill two men in a Bar with a pencil and it would have fit.

[@amnessie]

Miranda and Captain Jack Sparrow's introductions are the best I can think of

[@JohnDee-t3j]

Check out it takes two

[@JohnDee-t3j]

Check out It Takes Two!

[@ToriTheDormouse]

As a woman who constantly has to defend her fondness of dresses and make-up and high heels in front of beginning-of-the-movie-Andies, I think Andy deserved that speech. She entered a world she did not understand that is filled with people who work hard and are extremely passionate about this thing, and instead of trying to understand that, she has this holier than thou attitude and outright laughs at them. The Cerulian-Speech is really merely a reaction to Andy showing how unprepared she is for this job and how uneducated she is on the subject of fashion. It doesn't lessen her worth that she is not interested in fashion, that's totally fine, but it also doesn't increase it and this is the lesson that End-Andy learned.

[@acelovesdiyschristopher7023]

Ur completely correct tho I'd like to add my own experience if that's ok. Growing up and now that I'm an adult I have more traditionally masculine superficial personality traits like enjoying certain sports or not enjoying what u mentioned like dresses and makeup as much as the more masculine traits. While u have been criticized by pre makeover andies for enjoying those things while I've been criticized by people for enjoying the opposite of those things more. It really feels like we can't win no matter what these days.

[@XShadowtheHedgeX]

Miranda explicitly tells Andie that she hired her because of her incredible work ethic and thought maybe someone who she thinks is ugly and isn't interested in fashion might do better than all the other hires who were into fashion but turned out to be disappointing employees. Andie was hired as an assistant, specifically hired to do errand-like-jobs for her, and Miranda knew by the end of the interview that Andie didn't even know any fashion brands or who Miranda even was, as unprofessional as it was for Andie to laugh at the comment about the belts being "so different," Miranda knew exactly what type of person she hired and could've given her some other type of reprimanding. The movie doesn't even really display how the cerulean speech made Andie better at her job, in the meta-narrative, we're supposed to understand that it motivates her to do a good job by getting into fashion and dressing herself better, but really if you're just an assistant with the errands she's usually given, it's completely unrelated and as a fashion girlie myself, it just felt like the narrative was just trying to say "they only acted so brutally towards Andie before because they thought she was ugly and stupid" which is supported when Emily gets sick, can't think straight, and forgets the Ambassador and his wife's name in the party scene and her and Andie's roles switch and she becomes the starbucks-errand-assistant again and stops starving herself when she gets into the hospital (and it's depicted like her getting injured is supposed to be some kind of deserved punishment for not doing her job well) and the movie has the whole outdated view about being skinny and refusing to eat so you can lose weight as admirable, so we're supposed to understand that Emily isn't justified in acting a jerk, not because Miranda (her boss, who can FIRE her, and HAS fired many many employees before her) knowingly pressured Andie into accepting the Paris trip, but because it was a totally unrelated "selfish" Andie move

[@akherousia]

Yes, basically she was arrogant and Miranda put her in place.

[@carolbaker2773]

@@XShadowtheHedgeXmy take on it was that Andy thought that fashion was all stupid/the same. She was very thoroughly taught that there is history, science, marketing and way more thoughtfulness behind fashion than just “thing looks pretty put it on me”. Andy was straight up a snob and frankly was taking the spot of someone who would want it more (and deserved it more). All her preconceived notions about the industry were wrong and her and her friends were wrong.

[@XShadowtheHedgeX]

@carolbaker2773 i don't disagree with your take at all, i just think it's ridiculous that the movie acts like Miranda's speech would change the mind of someone like Andie, it was all about "this is art, and you're wrong to think it's below you because it's already affected your life more than you think it does" i definitely think fashion is it's own art form and love learning fashion history, but even if it did change Andie's mind about it, it's not something that would affect her ability to do her job well, putting on a cool outfit doesn't make her better at note-taking or carrying her boss's starbucks order to her desk. And it wasn't up to Andie that she was hired, it was Miranda's. The movie very explicitly makes it clear that so many other girls want that job, yes, you could say Andie can make the choice to leave but it'd be unfair to expect her to just quit her job and risk her financial stability, and Miranda also makes it clear that she hired Andie BECAUSE she's not like the other candidates that want the position but always end up doing a bad job. Why punish your employee for having an attitude you were aware of when you hired them 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

Honestly, I was with Miranda in the belt scene. Not necessarily with the amount of scorn, but I understand how she couldn’t stand an ignorant and uninterested noob looking down on her industry like that. Glad Nigel then followed up and brought the point honestly in a gentler, more caring way, but without Miranda’s previous rant, Andy would probably never have listened to him.

[@reikun86]

Exactly. Andie was not taking her job seriously.

[@astoriarego8304]

Andy merely said she had a lot to learn. It takes an overly sensitive person to be offended by someone not already knowing a lot about their industry or merely using the word "stuff."

[@owenleal]

​@@astoriarego8304 that is disingenuous of you, Andy very clearly scoffs at them as theyre working and then tries to walk it back when she is suddenly centre of attention.

[@Lazarus1095]

They were nearly identical belts. Any layman could say the same thing and any layman would be one hundred percent right. Instead of simply and patiently pointing out the differences and why they are important, Miranda used that off-handed comment as an excuse to humiliate a new employee who had no reasonable way of knowing the difference between the one and the other. She didn't do it to educate her. She did it because she got off on belittling someone who had absolutely no power at all.

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

@@astoriarego8304 That argument would hold if Andy truly WERE naive, but interested and willing to learn. But even Andy later concedes that Miranda’s criticism of her attitude was spot-on. So this specific incident may have been small, but it was on top of Andy’s ‘You’re all crazy and what you do is irrelevant and superficial’ attitude, so it was probably just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[@ericaavery9382]

My best friend died during our PhD. The demands of Johns Hopkins and her mentor led her to sacrificing her health and putting off doctor's appointments until it was too late. And any criticism of the culture in academia afterwards made our department hostile and defensive. The toxicity of certain industries is unbelievable. I still don't know how to cope with how horribly they mishandled her death. I always said my mentor was just like Miranda Priestly. This movie is such a real cautionary tale.

[@Kait2478]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how excruciating it must be to know it was preventable. May your friend's story help someone else

[@MsVorpalBlade]

Academia is SO cut-throat. I'm sorry for your loss.

[@pikus87ep]

I was broken by my experience in a PhD, with very little support from my university; I thought of putting an end to it myself several times, so i can totally relate to how toxic academia is, especially because if you speak up you are just considered jealous because "you could not make it", so any concern is almost automatically dismissed.

[@amirar8699]

I’m so sorry that must have been horrible

[@Widdekuu91]

I had a classmate who was about 16 or 17 and she was working 2 jobs ánd in school. She cared for her sister and her sick mom ánd did a heavy school-education. We tried to help, but she would shrug us off a bit and stubbornly continue' (no time for feelings, basically.) To be fair, we avoided her at some point, that behaviour didn't really invite us to talk extra. At some point then, her mom turned out to have cancer. It was bad, she would not live for much longer. She'd travel between hospital, work, school and her home (with her young sister) and had to cook, clean and work on homework, before going to another job. She would hardly sleep. I was 18 (and not mature at all) so I tried to help a bit with advice, but did not know what else to do. She regularly would leave the room and scream in a horrifying way in the bathrooms. The teacher told us to continue working, so we did. After a while, she was spoken to and told to not visit her mom every day, as to make more room for schoolwork. She'd already failed two tests (to be fair, those were given based on "feeling", the teacher could decide and she gave her a 5 out of 10, so that was barely a miss.) Even though she insisted that her mom would soon die, they told her to choose for her own future. "What do you care more about, your mom or your future? Make the right choice!" For two weeks, she visited every-other-day, but felt incredibly guilty and screamed a lot in the toiletrooms. The teachers told us she was on drugs. I asked her later if she was, she said she'd smoke weed sometimes but that was it. She told me the above (her sister and worksituation.) In the second week, her mom said that she felt she'd die soon and begged her daughter to visit every day. She cried and told her mother she could not, because of schoolwork. Her mother did not understand and assured her that she couldn't stay much longer. She did not visit that weekend and the mother died. After arranging the funeral on her own, caring for her sister on her own and continuing the two jobs (to pay for the rent) she did not come back. I asked what happened and the teachers said that I should not worry about it. I insisted, after a few weeks and the teacher noticed it was causing commotion, so she took me aside. She told me that there was no place for a drug-using emotional girl in this class. I told her she was only smoking weed sometimes and she advised me never to speak to her again. I asked what if I did and she said it'd be bad for my future. I think I emailed with her once, but then left it as it was and did not bother keeping in touch. A few years later, I was diagnosed with autism and the school was informed. Nothing happened...just the announcement that I was neurologically not perfect. And suddenly, could not receive my diploma anymore after all the hard work. They said it would be bad for the name of the school (Nimeto Utrecht in the Netherlands) to have an autist graduating there. I was very upset and when I was finally allowed to hand in my schoolpass and get my nearly-passed-certificate, everyone was worried and asked if I was okay. Later I found out that everyone had been told that I'd gone insane during the build of an Easterdisplay in the store I worked at, and that I had eaten chocolateeggs, thrown them at the costumers and had been convinced I was the EasterBunny. And that it took a whole lot of work to get me back to normal again, because it had likely been drugs." I felt extra bad for the first girl after realizing what kindof system this was. And for 2 years I met old classmates at the busstop that would let their eyes roll in their sockets while shouting; 'Ahahaha the crazy girl is there, look, she is the insane one!' and stick out their tongue and pretend to lose it.

[@Uhoh-28562]

I think it's unfair to say that Andy went into the job "blindly thinking she can have it all". She really didn't - She had been clear with Nate that this was a one-year commitment and then she would be able to have the work-life balance she wanted. I just dislike the rhetoric around women's careers and not being able to "have it all", when it's rarely a theme explored in conversations around men's careers. We don't bat an eye when military wives support their husbands being deployed for years, but Nate can't even support his girlfriend's busy schedule for one year.

[@leza4453]

Yeah, so many movies or TV series around successful women have the plot of the unsupporting spouse/partner as if this was just a fact of life you would have to accept as a price of the lifestyle and not your choice of partner and relationship. Similar to the incompetent husband/dad&type A wife/mom narrative that is so often repeated. It does not have to be this way.

[@LittleHobbit13]

The catharsis of Hathaway's later movie "The Intern" with a husband who has a similar character journey and then acknowledges his wife SHOULD be allowed to "have it all".

[@salomeeserol2129]

Yeah, tbh I really disliked Nate in that movie, he was very unsupportive of Andrea through out the story and she deserves better

[@samumaxwell334]

Seriously, I have a daughter and I would want her to be with someone who supports her if she chooses to stick it out in a tough job situation for a year. It’s one thing to make a one year commitment over choosing to stay there for a long time.

[@watching7721]

Military wives have a pretty bad reputation in their own right, and not entirely undeserved

[@Michaelalovespandas]

I like that you’re acknowledging how Miranda was toxic, not pretending it’s ok because she’s a girlboss. When Andy said that if Miranda were a man, nobody would have a problem with her behavior, she was right. But that means we should stop tolerating toxic behavior from male bosses, not that it’s ok for female bosses to be toxic too

[@EmmersonCole]

The reason why the "all this stuff" monologue is so powerful, same with all of Meryl Streep's monologues in this film, is because Meryl spoke softly and calmly to Anne Hathaway while she was ripping her to shreds. I read somewhere that Meryl got that idea from Clint Eastwood. Being on the receiving end of verbal abuse is horrible when it's loud and aggressive, but it is soul crushing when the abuse is spoken softly and calmly because you have to lean in and pay attention to every single word.

[@JokeCubed]

That bit when Miranda says "I see a lot of myself in you." and Andy turns and looks shocked. Both Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep played that so well. When Miranda said that, you could see Andy think "Oh, that's not a good thing."

[@kittikats]

Miranda meant it as "I can see you also have ambition and drive. I KNOW as a woman with ambition you have to work so much harder to be taken seriously and they judge you on looks, not just talent. You HAVE to be tough. You have to be willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING because as a woman that's what it takes. You have to be strong enough to handle the judgement and lack of support. I see myself in you. Someone that can do it and get to the top in a dog eat dog world." And Andy looks at Mirandas life (no balance, no love life / partner, no real friends) and realises the cost isn't one she wants to pay.

[@LittleHobbit13]

The thing is, Andy's not wrong though when she comments that if Miranda were a man, nobody would be saying anything about her behavior. We're usually more likely to chalk it up to "CEO behavior" than any kind of neurological condition for men, collectively brushing it off that they "just be that way sometimes" as CEOs. Yet we STILL talk with morbid fascination about how downright cutthroat and narcissistic Miranda is and whether or not it's "appropriate" or "effective leadership", and often gloss over the fact that Miranda actually has the expertise to back up her holding the position she does. (Which is all the more fascinating considering Meryl based her performance off male CEOs.)

[@dtucker1984]

Andy is absolutely correct. We don't talk about male CEOs the same way we talk about Miranda. It's an extremely common issue that women are demonized for the same behavior that we applaud when it comes from men. But I think it means that we need, as a society, to hold men to the same standard. This is terrible behavior from anyone.

[@dietotaku]

@@dtucker1984 exactly. look no further than women in politics. the exact same behavior in a woman makes her a bitch, a harpy, shrill, overbearing, a ballbuster, and the nuclear insult: "unlikeable." in a man it makes him strong, ambitious, assertive, competent, and "someone i'd like to have a beer with."

[@al723o]

Yeah I don't fully agree with movie therapy here. Miranda is never gonna be great boss but she does if harshly help Andy make progress in her world , part of which is being ruthless. She is honest about what she wants from her staff. Not saying I'd want to work for her but I can think of far worse work situations.

[@sawanna508]

In my opinion she is wrong. If Miranda was a man I would still call her a mean asshole. I maybe even more ready to call her that and afte Weinstein and metoo I would wonder whether she abused someone sexually as well. Besides the difference in power between a male CEO and Andy would be even bigger.

[@haute03]

I agree that Andy is correct, but I think that points to a larger issue about people not calling out the narcissistic and harmful behavior of male CEOs than anything else. Obviously, this channel is good at showcasing narcissistic traits in characters across genders, but I'm speaking more to public discourse.

[@musearrives2am]

Miranda is the perfect hybrid of a Antagonist and a Mentor. She is ruthless and powerful and encourages others to take on toxic traits she has herself, but she also builds them up to have her incredibly high standards and work ethic. Its implied that the work ethic she instills is the reason she "opens doors" and Andy is a perfect Protagonist to not only overcome her, but learn from her in the process.

[@melissamarsh2219]

Miranda has high expectations for everyone including herself

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

​​@@Jess-737It's kind of poses the same question that the movie Whiplash poses, which is if abusive, narcissistic mentors can make their students extremely successful through their abuse does that justify it? And I would argue no, it does not justify it because of the mental toll it takes on every single person around these people, for every success story that these people create, there are 100 more stories of people whose lives they have ruined. And even the people who do end up becoming successes often end up deeply broken due to this treatment which then can lead them to become abusers themselves and the cycle continues.

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

@@Jess-737 you clearly missed the entire point of what I was saying. I never said that she had to stay there what I was saying is that Miranda is a narcissistic abuser much like JK Simmons character in Whiplash. Both of these characters use their abuse to mold their students into "successors". Both Miranda and JK Simmons character see what they're doing is as good and for the betterment of the person that they are manipulating. Also, have you ever been in an abusive relationship? It never feels as simple as just leaving, because often those types of people make you feel like you have no other options that's the scary thing about abusers they don't need to have a gun to your head to make you feel trapped. It is also not that easy just to quit your job either. I have been in both abusive parental relationships and abusive work relationships with abusive bosses It is never as feels easy as just leaving. The ending is about Andie finally realizing that she deserves better and that she shouldn't have to sacrifice her self in order to gain her career.

[@cristyablad]

I wouldn't want her work ethic. No work-life balance. I do agree that people need to be pushed to a degree but the degree is gentler than this, lol.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

Wait, what? She was BEARLY able to get out. Your mental health can deteriorate to extremely lows because of that kind os abuse. We can learn from abuse but abuse it absolutely NOT NECESSARY to lear. No

[@metrux321]

I think the only thing left I'd like to see your reaction, is the final end: Miranda HELPS her get to a new job, because after she chose this other path, she got for the first time miranda's respect.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

That was a great moment of character complexity. Miranda can be Miranda, yet still she is not one dimensional.

[@rileykepfer4294]

yeah I was disappointed not seeing their reaction to that part. I think it shows that Miranda feels too enmeshed to walk away, but she's glad that Andy can. She wanted to give Andy the chance she never had.

[@FrumiousMing8]

Meryl is so good, I love the subtly of her reaction when Andi walks away. At first she's surprised but then it seems like she's impressed, maybe even a little bit proud of Andi for quitting. Andi got to do what Miranda never could, walk way from the job.

[@maureenmurphy7817]

I always thought this was a "Hollywood" ending and inconsistent with this type of narcissist. Based on those I have encountered, when they had a staffer leave and appear defiant, several actually went out of their way to blackball the person, especially if it was a small industry. I witnessed a very powerful labor leader blackball his executive assistant, who had the nerve to take a bathroom break and leave his phone unattended, then talk back when he screamed at her. HE fired Her, but also blackballed her in the tight labor community they operated in. She couldn't find another job for a long time and without insurance, had some major health issues left unaddressed.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Andi's boyfriend was an unsupportive jerk who could not tolerate or respect his girlfriend taking her job seriously. He was constantly belittling what she did, even though he's a chef (so in other words, has no moral high ground on the importance of his work) and refused to move his birthday party even though he knew she had a work event, and then guilt tripped her for that. Good partners will encourage your passions, and Andi did have passion for her job (even though, yes, her boss was abusive). The right message would have been, 'I love seeing you have passion for fashion now. I just worry your boss does not respect your boundaries', and his message instead was 'ugh, I can't believe you're not around as much because of your stupid silly job'.

[@kaylahensley1581]

I think the boyfriend should have at least acknowledged how hard the work was for Andi and the runway girls. He acts like Andi's dream and passion are the only thing that matters, but there is no way to achieve something like that without hard work. Working for Miranda was a huge stepping stone/short cut, did he really think there would be no price?

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

💯. If you are worried about a friend loosing themselves in a new environment, talk with them, by all means. But do it reasonably and kindly. He could have asked “What do you like/hate most about your job”, “What have you learned so far?”, “Do you think Miranda’s way is the only management style that can produce these exacting standards?”, etc etc. You can’t tell another person how they are supposed to feel about an environment, or a person. But he doesn’t talk with her, he basically informs her that her priorities are wrong, period.

[@xragdoll5662]

@@venanziadorromatagni1641this is exactly what my partners best friend said to him about his ex when he was ranting about her, he just simply said to him “but are you happy?”

[@yb9964]

100% agree with all this but I also think Andi was disrespectful in how she handled blond guy who was flirting with her. I can’t condone, that’s cheating to me

[@RachaelTheRed]

What gets me is that all Nate does is make fun of her from the very start. Like, he was always a shitty, unsupportive boyfriend. When she tells everyone she got the job at Runway his response is "YOU got a job at a FASHION magazine?! Was it a phone interview?" Like, bro...Wtf! Way to insult your girlfriend. Then later he has the audacity to say that he liked her old clothes better. Then at the end, when Andy is trying to apologize and take accountability, not only does he not own up to his mistakes but he continues to belittle her and cuts her off to make more childish jokes about her interest in fashion. He also makes fun of the outfit she's wearing for her newspaper interview. He's such a childish jerk.

[@JC_Hope]

Kinda bummed that none of them had any criticism for how the boyfriend could’ve been more supportive seeing as traditionally, women have to give up so much for their successful, male spouses. As for his point about integrity, Andy was very clear about her job. She wasn’t being fake, she was exhausted, getting more support from Nigel than her own boyfriend.

[@silveryfeather208]

Wonder if they will see this. No one is perfect, I still love their videos. But I wonder if they thought of this before, or after reading the comments if they still agree or disagree.

[@annabourbon]

​​@@silveryfeather208I have seen some of their videos and they were great, they do listen to fans but personally I have been feeling like they are letting us down more than a couple of times when I was really expecting more from them. So... we'll see.❤😊

[@Xinisterr]

Not to mention her friends were absolute shit as well. They never supported her even after she showed that she was serious about that.

[@mwv1217]

The boyfriend was not the villian of the story. Nigel literally told her that the main ingredient I corn chowder was cellulite and just about every character shamed her for even eating at all

[@RM-jd7bk]

Yes there is some sexism but Andrea isn’t that innocent either. She was flirting a lot with another man whilst being in a committed relationship (before they broke up). They are all flawed. But very true that if Miranda was a man, people would view her as a legend as opposed to an ice queen.

[@YBlvr]

I'm going to respectfully push back on how Jono and Alan supported what Nate said. Yes, Nate was right - Andy's being swallowed up by her work and her abusive narcissist of her boss, and she can't see it. But Nate's getting his point across in the most hurtful way possible. If my partner said to me "I wouldn't care if you were out there pole dancing all night as long as you did it with a little integrity" and "just own up to it, and then we can stop pretending like we have anything in common anymore", I'm not gonna respond with "wow, you're right, thanks for being a caring and supportive partner who understands me". I'm going to do what Andy did and call for a break - if not a total break-up - because that is absolutely NOT the way you talk to your long-term partner who you love and respect. What he said was degrading, humiliating, and puts the blame entirely on Andy, who's just someone in her 20s struggling to figure out what's really important to her, and it signals to her (and me) that he cares more about his own feelings being hurt in the moment than he cares about her.

[@CM-pf1xc]

He literally wasn’t. He was pointing out a hard truth. Could he have been a counselor and recognized all the dynamics of what was happening and therapize her out of it! Sure but he’s living in it, as a young naive 20 something just like her!! So he said it like he said. And honesty I think it helped push her to self reflect. And she says what’s he was trying to point out in the end! 20:11 she DOESNT want to live like that, and he knew that and saw her going down this path. He was calling her out. And she finally comes to that herself in Paris after seeing Miranda. 22:46 yes they weren’t counting the cost.

[@BatAmerica]

Cool, and you are free to accept that viewpoint. Respectfully, I disagree. Unlike in the apartment scene, where he overreacted, Nate told the harsh truth here. He could be more constructive, but that doesn't make him a selfish monster because people aren't rational when angry; they say hurtful things, and if Andy can get a pass for her shortcomings, then Nate is no different. Yes, he is her boyfriend, but not her therapist, and Andy shouldn't expect people to behave calmly 100% of the time.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

People are bad at communicating sometimes. Specialy at 22

[@c.coffee3035]

I agree. Nate was pretty awful, so were Andy's friends. They weren't nice people. Nate was disgusting during this conversation. I was surprised that they agreed with Nate. When I was watching I just thought Nate was immature & then at the end he expects her to move with him for his job! After never supporting her with hers!

[@oceanmariep256]

I agree. The pole dancing comment seems like an intentional writer’s decision to show that he’s likening her current career to a career in sex work. I think he’s meant to be a character who’s resentful that his girlfriend has become someone who carries herself with confident femininity, and he’s deriding her to protect his fragile male ego. It’s a little too subtle, but it would be terrible writing for him to say any of that out loud.

[@Lumenum]

Miranda knows what she is, she is not delusional by any means. She is a highly successful woman, and like Andy says in the Paris restaurant scene, noone would bat an eye if she were a man. She is cruel and manipulative, sure, but if she was a narcissist she would have destroyed Andy for walking away. Instead she personally provides a reference and ensures Andy gets the next job.

[@jpp7783]

Yes, this video’s analysis is overly simplistic. She certainly has her flaws, and perhaps she is overly ambitious, but a narcissist? “Everyone wants to be us” (not me), and finding Andy a job, those are not narcissistic moves. (And Andy, walking out on her job with no notice, in the middle of a key moment? Let’s analyze that, shall we?)

[@oooh19]

yea so much sexism here! idk why so many ppl hate successful women especially in a female dominated field

[@davidleon3453]

@@oooh19 So instead of "let's stop the abusive men" you're saying "let's make the women abusive too"?

[@User-wr5qz]

I don't fully agree with this analysis. A narcisisst chooses when to act in facour of others. It can be just to feel good about themselves, ther's a type of narcisisst that is drawn to charity work. It can be to prove to oneself that the other person isn't a threat and a million of reasons. Still Narcissist.

[@Lumenum]

@@User-wr5qz I agree with your point that there are narcissists who feel a boost to their ego from charity work, as they get adoration from others. What narcissists don't handle well is embarassment, and I think in this cade Miranda was deeply embarrased when she was left in Paris. She overcame it nontheless, and even acknowledged Andy for the strength of character. Being ruthless/ perfectionest/ demanding is not the same as being a narcissist.

[@lilyc5079]

That scene where the boyfriend complained because she works so hard always ticked me off. She's new to an industry! She's paying her dues! It's a season that passes and she gets through it with what she needs- a good reference from the toughest boss in publishing. That's success! And it doesn't happen by getting home everyday at 6pm and never taking a call during dinner. It's a side issue so I'll stop but I've wanted to get that off my chest since 2006 lol thank you

[@hersheywalla]

"Uploaded 22 seconds ago" ...I may have an addiction

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

👋

[@Lucifronz]

You should see a therapist.

[@RF-Ataraxia]

@@Lucifronz And a filmmaker

[@Zombie_Chow]

​@DontReadMyProfilePicture.283 only if you don't read mine *wink*

[@funnybookworm09]

@@RF-Ataraxiahahahaha!

[@rayay248]

Here’s the thing about Nate and Andy though - There’s no way that Nate hasn’t done the same things Andy has in his career as a chef. That industry is known for making people work really intense hours for verbally/emotionally abusive bosses. And clearly Andy was understanding about it. Nate doesn’t respect Andy’s job. He made that clear from the very beginning, before he knew what the job would even entail. Every time I watch this movie, when Nate says the line “what am I four?” in response to him being upset about her missing his birthday, I yell “yes” at the TV because 1. He is generally immature and 2. He totally was upset that she missed his birthday.

[@360shadowmoon]

As much as I love this movie, I feel like the writers have never worked an actual non-entertainment job before. It shows in the writing.

[@silveryfeather208]

Agree. This happened with freedom writers too. I agree in the freedom writers she never gave a time line, however stuff like this in movie. I'm like, yes he's a dick. you can't put up for ONE year. But women have been doing it for a long time. What was compelling in the freedom writers was he said 'i can't be your wife' but you expect her to do that. Its good to know what you like and don't like, but honestly, I believe you should do unto others as you would unto others@@360shadowmoon

[@PamelaEnglish-ew8nf]

What about the burnt black grilled cheese? Making grilled cheese is not rocket science, even for the non chefs out there and he manages to screw it up when he makes it for her. Did he ever make her a priority in his life or just an option?

[@cgonz8]

"What am I, four?" is a clear defense mechanism because he is upset. You understand the scene, congrats.

[@alatielinara]

@@360shadowmoon yeah I feel like they were too much into "follow your dreams" not realising that people might need to work in a bad job to have some financial security to survive.

[@oximoron613]

I disagree that Miranda cannot comprehend Andy's decision. The way she smiles at the end and writes the letter of recommendation, she wanted Andy to avoid the mistakes she made. I think she is aware of the prison she built for herself, we see throughout the film that the hardest tasks Miranda gives revolve around making her daughters happy. She desperately wants to protect them, even though deep down she knows that she is the cause of their unhappiness. No normal person would blame Andy for taking Emily's place, however it is the first step in becoming someone like Miranda that would sacrifice anything for the greater good. Miranda warns Andy the cost of following in her footsteps, and I think she's happy Andy made better choices than she did.

[@MsJubjubbird]

I think Miranda's love for her children is one of her great redeeming qualities. Given she's older and they're twins and she has sole custody, they're likely to be IVF babies, which to me says she wanted to do the humanly female motherhood thing, despite failed relationships. The thing she's most upset about with the divorce is the impact on the children. However, she's busy and so buys them stuff to make up for it. When she can't make the recital she is devastated, because that was one of the few times she was going to be actually present as a mother and she failed at this aspect/societal expectation of womanhood

[@irrevocablytired3713]

I love this take. I've been a fashion student for over four years and I started because I like clothes. Designing was something I was good at naturally and I loved the monotony of sewing and the feeling of accomplishment when I finish. I'm not exactly urged into couture in my school, but in the last two years or so, I was getting high praise for my work (which wasn't much, I'm still in shock) and kept getting comments of "I know I'll hear your name somewhere in a few years!". I realized I never wanted that. I don't want the fame or the million dollar clients. I'm anxious enough as it is with my professor viewing my work. I am fine with joining a company and becoming a nameless worker. I just like to design and sew. I don't want to cater to rich people who ignore the world's suffering for their pleasure and personal comfort. Your video helped me feel like I'm not crazy to think like this, even thought I've been primed to work in high fashion when I really don't want to. Thank you!

[@anawieder5003]

You know I can see Miranda Priestly in 2 ways. One is the way you describe here; as a narcissist who expects the entire world to cowtow to her every whim. But I can also see how she is unfairly maligned for being excellent and expecting excellence from her employees. Powerful Women with high expectations are subject to terrible double standards. People call them bitches for expecting the same standards as men. Cruelty is never okay but this movie makes a decent point about women being bosses

[@user-ss9wg2yq3o]

Elon Musk is basically the male version of her, and he definitely doesn't have a shortage of critics himself. I highly doubt anyone would consider her behavior more acceptable if she were a man.

[@xliessyx0068]

Can we also speak about the moment Andi said, that if Miranda was a man noone would find her behavior wierd? I think that does apply to Andi aswell. If she was a man being focoused on her work an career, noone would talk bad about her.

[@sawanna508]

I don't agree about Miranda. if she was a man I would still call her an asshole. And If she was a man with that kind of work balance and sacrificing her colligue along the way I wouldn't like that either. -There are actually all kind of movies with families marriages that are braking appared because the man is to focused on his career.

[@martaxiaoping1261]

YES.

[@kasumiafkgod6089]

Especially how it's acceptable for Nate to be focused on his work as a chef but not for Andy because her field of work was viewed by him as shallow? The double standard is real

[@valgardener7656]

The problem with TDWP as a morality tale is that Andi never does anything wrong, period. Or rather, the things she does "wrong" are the opposite of what the movie -- and Cinema Therapy -- says that they are. Andi was wrong to be spiteful and snobby about the fashion industry at first. She used to make fun of "runway girls" with Nate. She used to think she was better even than her genius boss. She grows past these bad traits and learns to take her job seriously. That is moral growth. Andi never starts getting industry-shallow. She never mocks people who aren't well dressed. All the bad behavior comes from her friends. She just works hard at her job, as they all do as well. The difference is that her job is fashion, and that threatens them. So they try to tear her down. like the bunch of insecure children that they are. Andi refusing to go to Paris was another moral flaw, that Miranda was right to threaten her out of. This is work, not middle school. She cannot refuse to support Miranda on a difficult business trip just because it will hurt Emily's feelings. Andi did nothing to Emily except do a better job and take better care of her health. It's absurd.

[@Me-vn3gz]

@@valgardener7656exactly! like it’s alright if that life isn’t for her but she doesn’t have to hate on it

[@kendallbrooke3408]

I agree with Miranda on the belt scene because that was her way of saying Art Matters and what we do with Art Matters because it shapes our culture.

[@leannwilson2640]

I agree and THAT is what most "normal" people don't get about SLOW FASHION. It is art... and it is impactful in it's own right... but also feeds the dupes (fast fashion) we all love to buy? We are always being manipulated...and they get away with it when we aren't paying attention. ;-)

[@tracey5324]

I agree - and the examples the production team use are telling because the SHAPE of the buckles is strikingly different from a design perspective. One is silver and the other is gold. One is rounded with a hidden buckle like a brooch, that has added splashes of the belt's colour in the metal. The other is an enlarged obvious buckle with an exposed clasp, it's colour is bold and stands out from its leather strap. Both designs are engraved and therefore textured. That means anyone copying that work in future will emulate the metal, shape, color and will decide if their inspired designs will have exposed/hidden clasps and wether they will enamel or bedazzle their metal in future (since exposed metal of decent quality is expensive, their cost cutting measures will alter the design). By the time it hits the consumer market, they will look like two entirely different trends- even though their inspiration pieces are so similar.

[@valgardener7656]

She was 100% right in the belt scene. It's funny that though the CT guys present this scene as evidence of Miranda being "toxic", the Fimmaker Guy obviously loves watching Miranda wipe the floor with Andi. And rightly so. Because Andi is the toxic one in that scene. That's what makes it so satisfying.

[@Vampress09]

True! I hate people who think they're too intellectual for aesthetics.

[@Chulpansilu]

It reminds me a lot of boys who used to put me down for being good and liking art saying well no one needs it anyway when their whole world like video games and clothes etc are designed by people who are good at art 😂

[@olliet4264]

I adore the car talk scene - it’s played and directed so perfect, it really feels like a talk with the devil, like Andy is facing a mirror of herself and the devil at the same time, she even begins to speak softly like Miranda, it’s absolutely amazing

[@Koresaurus]

It's done so well that it lands the story beat of Andy's supposed ruthlessness even though what she did isn't really comparable to what Miranda did. Nigel was Miranda's loyal friend for many years, and Miranda replaced him in a political move that had nothing to do with his merit as a person or as an asset. Andy and Emily didn't even like each other that much (iirc?) and Andy only usurped her by outperforming her, plus Emily would've been right back on track once Andy left for her journalism career. But because this conversation is directed perfectly, you feel the sense of realization of "what am I turning into" and the weight of the choice to walk away from it.

[@EIizabethGrace]

I agree, it’s so good! Also, seeing it this time I actually think I had an epiphany (think: it’s late and there is a chance that I’m tired and delirious, lol). I have no idea of how I haven’t seen it until now, but rewatching most of these clips of Miranda - with the overly regulated emotions, what seems to be genuine empathy for her kids (not just possibly as an extension of herself, like in the recital thing, but in the context of the divorce), and that last “everyone wants to be us” car scene in particular - made me think of her as _less_ narcissistic and way more nuanced than I remembered her to be. It’s so weird. She has these extreme narcissistic behaviors that are definitely more than just a “work uniform”, and yet they don’t seem as deep-rooted as those of a true narcissist, as per my experience. Almost like - instead of it being a pre-verbal thing that became visceral and her personality to its core - she consciously assumed the persona she thought/knew would get her the life she life thought she needed, - idk, to compensate for an insecurity, feel some kind of loved, find her own place - sacrificing other important aspects, and now she’s trapped in it and with what feels like her own and at once an assumed identity. Unwilling to let go of what she is and has - of losing the perks of her current life, of ending up with one she likes even less or that could no longer make her happy after decades of over-the-top everything, or uncertain if she even exists outside of it - and hyping it up to herself by going full circle and, after “seeing beyond” and “choosing for herself”, justifying the lousy results to herself precisely by focusing on “what people (would) want” and trying to make it matter. And yet, she’s still miserable because, unlike a genuine narcissist, she (and consciously, at that) craves more than just superficial, empty validation and the ability to tell herself and be told she’s above everyone else. I honestly think she may have been onto something saying that she saw herself in Andy. There’s this quote that “evil queens are just princesses who were never saved”. What if Mirandas aren’t real narcissists (the kind whose personality, perception, priorities and sense of self formed warped from the start), but just Andys who - after starting, as reasonably well-adjusted people capable of doing so, to go down the wrong path - opened their eyes too late to just get out of that car and still have somewhere to go and someone to be away from the paparazzi?

[@Koresaurus]

​@@EIizabethGraceTo your point, when Andy quit, a full-blown narcissist might have thrown a tantrum at the betrayal and ruined her career as retaliation, rather than writing a personal recommendation that acknowledged her (even if a little back-handed). The story clearly compares Miranda and Andy, but it's not about narcissism; what they really have in common, and what really defines Miranda, is ambition. And ambition isn't wrong in and of itself.

[@idaxurais1710]

Nate is the villain in this movie in my opinion. People change and prioritises change too. She really wanted to do well in her new job and was still getting use to it. Yes she unhappy but she did say she wants to stick it for a year. That was her plan. Nate & their friends were mean to her and worse yet unsupportive. Horrible bosses and people are everywhere. Partners and friends are supposed to be our safe space. There are kinder ways to tell our love ones that perhaps they making a mistake

[@nephtys369]

I think it’s important to remember how good Miranda is at her job. The scene of the editors meeting, she knew more than everyone in that room. I do kinda believe the “no one else can do what I do” part.

[@gracexcon]

I almost always agree with your takes, but I disagree with this one. I don't think Andy abandoned her beliefs by dressing fashionably while she worked there, I don't think she lost her integrity by trying to please her boss while she worked there. She allowed her perspective to include the perspectives of others, and ended up keeping some of that influence in the way she dressed and carried herself professionally after. I also agree with Miranda's cerulean speech to Andy. Andy walked into that job interview and was very unprepared, doing no research on the magazine, basically telling Miranda to her face that she doesn't even want to work there, and then when Miranda hires her anyway, she openly mocks the job, again in front of her boss. Miranda creates a toxic work environment, no question, but Andy wasn't off to a good start either. She realized she that if she was going to do the job for a year, she might as well commit to it while she does. She removed herself from the situation when she found where her line was, and when the influence she was allowing herself to receive stopped being positive. And I think her friends and boyfriend were very judgmental, impatient, and unsupportive. She was never supposed to work there for more than a year, it was just something she had to suffer through to open some doors for her in her career, and she never changed her mind about that, she never considered working there longer. She wasn't screwing her friends over left and right, she wasn't becoming rude and judgmental of others, the way the Runway girls are, she was just less available. I'm not saying she didn't get a little too caught up in it, that she didn't make some excuses for certain mistakes or circumstances, but I also think their reaction to her behavior was more severe than the behavior warranted.

[@chs75]

Well said!

[@evelynmelendez2471]

Exactly! Especially the boyfriend. He was rooting for the whole “one year”arrangement until she started getting better at her job and enjoying fashion a little bit more. It’s like he expected her to stay miserable that whole year and not appreciate that industry has if she would have survived in that competitive environment staying with the same mindset she began with. The minute she started enjoying fashion a little more and wearing nice clothes to make her job more bearable “they lost all that they had in common” And at their last conversation when she said for what? And he said: for shoes, bags, belts… I was like duuuude did you forgot why she fkg got that job in the first place?? That it was basically that or auto universe and that she applied at every newspaper and couldn’t get a job? I just couldn’t follow up on the narrative that was pushed on this movie.

[@akherousia]

Absolutely agree. The guys have the most direct take here - she betrayed herself and lost everything but I personally think that her bf was really unsupportive and made her life much more difficult than it already was. She achieved a lot and it was very stressful and instead of being happy for her and supportive, he kept creating problems. I also don't agree with the "cutthroat" comment about Emily. There was nothing so horrible in that situation. Miranda made it clear Emily wouldn't be taken to Paris. And what now, refuse so that nobody would go? It's not Andy's or Emily's decision who goes to Paris. It's Miranda's. That's not even mentioning how Emily behaved towards Andy. There's a phrase in my language: "Don't spit into the well - it might come in handy when you're thirsty". They weren't even friends.

[@gracexcon]

@@akherousia I know, Miranda also made it clear to Andy that if she didn't go to Paris, not only would her job be in jeopardy, but that Miranda would blackball her with other publications, making is nearly impossible for Andy to get another job. Andy's choice there was really just take Emily's place or give up her dream of journalism entirely. And Emily could have totally gone next year

[@carolbaker2773]

@@gracexconnot to mention that really Emily had only herself to blame. She wanted to lose so weight fast so that she could impress people on the trip even thought she was already with Miranda. I believe this is different from an ED and was a choice. She put herself into danger and then got mad when it backfired and just like Miranda is placing the blame on someone else.

[@franchescamayialmonte1303]

Andy didn’t choose her clothes cuz they were simply and practical, she dressed like that cuz she believed herself superior to looks, as the unsupportive boyfriend said they “used to make fun of runway girls”. She doesn’t go back to ugly clothes afterwards, she looks damn good at the end. I usually love your reactions, but this was more an analysis to maybe miranda than the movie as a whole.

[@alatielinara]

my problem was her clothes were never that ugly( I liked that cerulean sweater.

[@annabourbon]

​@@alatielinarathey're not ugly, indeed but they're not for her body type either 😅 plus it's not how you should dress for work. Especially considering her workplace.

[@ilia.katherine]

THIS COMMENT 🙌. I hope they've read some of the comments section because they definitely said a lot of right things, but their take was very one dimensional and biased against Miranda.

[@ebonyplummer4621]

You don't like people making fun of models, but you call people clothes ugly. What hypocrisy.

[@franchescamayialmonte1303]

Also ugly is relative. Depends on how you combine things together and who is wearing it (because different cuts are better fit to different bodies,different color to different undertones skins…) I agree that sweater is cute and as miranda said it was made thinking it was cute.

[@jill9978]

I do hate the villification of Andy in the movie for “choosing to get ahead.” What she did to Emily I disagree was her fault. It’s Miranda’s for creating a toxic work environment where you have to tear others down or get fired and have your future ruined. Don’t blame the crabs for pulling each other down when they didn’t put themselves in the bucket.

[@bishoujoagogo6243]

Especially since Emily should know that Miranda wouldn’t want to take her after having her leg broken and in a cast. She wouldn’t be able to do her job at Miranda’s pace

[@lei9330]

Fucking thank you. Everyone knows Miranda is highly influencial ('don't you get it? Her opinion is the only one that counts') and quite vindictive. When this titan of the industry tells an early 20s beginner that she WILL ruin her career if she doesn't go to Paris instead of Emily, it's a gross abuse of power on a young impressionable person. It's so unfair to call it Andy's fault. I get Emily's frustration and her outburst (though as you said, she was partaking in the toxic work environment, but still), but everyone else who gives her shit for it really lacks empathy and understanding.

[@oceanmariep256]

@@lei9330 Isn’t that exactly why Miranda tells Andi that she did the same thing to Emily? Andi had to choose between her losing her job and doing what Miranda told her to do, even though it came at the cost of Emily’s Paris trip. Then when Miranda’s position is threatened, she leverages her influence so that she can keep her job, at the cost of Nigel’s dream job. In a sense, they both sacrificed someone else to maintain their own power. The moment Andi realizes that she’s going to need to continue to stomp on other people to survive in the fashion industry, is the moment she chooses to quit.

[@lei9330]

@@oceanmariep256 but that’s the thing for me, it’s not the same thing. Miranda was already established and respected, she had leverage to keep her job, she also had to keep this job to give meaning to her life since she’d poured everything in it. No one told her ‘you either take Nigel’s job away, or you can’t ever work in your field of work ever again’, it was her screwing over Nigel on her own. Andy did not have that power. She was just starting in journalism, when the biggest boss told her ‘either you screw over your coworker or I’m gonna scorch your name to anyone who will listen’. And everyone would listen, that was made very clear. The positions they were in were vastly different.

[@oceanmariep256]

@@lei9330 I don’t think it’s meant to be exactly the same situation. You’re supposed to be able to sympathize with Andi and justify her actions, otherwise the audience would see her as needlessly selfish. I think what she does is meant to be the first step into becoming exactly like Miranda. Miranda has been in the industry for a long time, she has also had to claw her way to the top, and she has had to prioritize her own career over other people’s well being so often that it’s second nature. She sacrifices Nigel because it means keeping what’s most important to her, and she’s teaching Andi to do the same. Andi chooses to walk away at the end of the movie, while still under the threat of Miranda destroying her future career prospects, because otherwise she’ll continue to be subjected to situations where she’ll need to compromise her ethics until she doesn’t have any.

[@jessicad4364]

The saddest part of the film for me was that she was surrounded by people who didn’t care about her as a person or what she wanted only Nigel really throughout the film. Her friends were the most cruel excuse for friends. Her boyfriend wanting her to give up on her dream when she was almost done with the year of torture. Hopefully he doesn’t ever date anyone who wants to serve in the Army, or is a doctor, or I don’t know has a tough schedule for a year.. 🤦 he could’ve been supportive saying ‘yay you’re almost there you got this’ or “is this something you still really want?”

[@hihey229]

I feel like they sorta missed some of the core of the movie. Andy is "just fine" when she starts true, but she is also arrogant, thinking all that fashion "stuff" is beneath her. The cerulean scene calls her out on her arrogance, on the fact she took this "silly fashion job" and is treating it without any respect. Andy comes out at the end of the movie fundamentally changed, her fashion has changed as has her worldview. She saw a glimpse of a life she could have had and stepped back, but took a lot of what she learned with her.

[@user-ss9wg2yq3o]

I totally disagree. Her getting into fashion just shows how much importance she was putting on her career above her values that she changed her entire personality just to fit in. Her quitting shows that she was no longer willing to compromise her integrity in a toxic workplace and then she became herself again.

[@Jeremy-wp4yh]

The reason why I disagree with this video is because Miranda is extremely competent at her job. She doesn't just talk. She walks the walk. Andy was initially not qualified for this position, but learned and was quick on her feet. Interesting that this review doesn't mention Andy's friends or boyfriend.

[@yb9964]

I don’t feel the same disdain towards Miranda because she doesn’t technically owe Andy love and understanding. Her friends and bf do and they failed her. Andy has her wrongs and Miranda, too. But they’re at the forefront of my disdain right now.

[@riskigost2759]

@@yb9964 Miranda may not owe Andy love or understanding but she does owe her basic respect which she fails to give her almost 100% of the time. You don't have to be overly nice to your employees if you don't want to but you should still treat people like people, no matter how competent you are.

[@MsJubjubbird]

I also don't think it's bad that Andy took Emily's spot to Paris. Andy had more talent than Emily. She was excelling where Emily was floundering. It's normal for a business to promote their performing staff. What's more, Emily didn't seem to have career goals. Andy wanted to be a writer. Miranda would have thought it more beneficial for Andy to go to Paris and meet the writers and editors.

[@sitzpinkler1294]

One can be efficient and competent at her job and still can be a narcissist

[@Jeremy-wp4yh]

@@sitzpinkler1294 lol why does everyone on social media use that word. Miranda is a workaholic. And like most people, you can't have it all. stable marriage, kids and successful career. You need to sacrifice something along the way.

[@thedashboard9562]

I do like that Andy's experience at Runway wasn't completely negative. She does come to respect the fashion industry, or at least some of the people in it, and puts aside her shallow and judgmental understanding of it. At the end of the movie, we see she's dressing better than she was at the beginning because she learns that how one presents one's self does matter. Also, Andy's boyfriend sucked. For one, wasn't he a sous chef? He should be busier than Andy on the weekends! He was such a whiny baby. What Andy was doing was what ambition looks like. Her time with Runway ultimately did help her get the job she wanted, a job she might not have gotten if she stayed in the same mindset she was in with him.

[@sawanna508]

Well that just means Andy is MORE busy then him EVENTHOUGH he is a sous chef. -What the movie basically says is you have to put up with toxic work environment, you are not allowed to complain about it if you don't have the right mindset, you have to expect all that even if it costs you verything (work envionments like that can couse burn outs by the way). That's not a good message. If work live really demands you to be like that/ accept all that to get ahead, to accept bulling and humilation of all sort then it's hight time to change those kind of struktures.

[@ebonyplummer4621]

You get made at Andy being judgemental of the fashion industry when the fashion industry is all about being judgemental. You are judgmental judging people in their clothing.

[@SilverW01f]

I think one of my favorite things about that last scene is the choice of clothing. This is a movie about fashion, so nothing about what they wore was unintentional, and in that last scene, they were both dressed like they were going to a funeral.

[@magdalenehagey4079]

I think ModernGurlz pointed out too that their dresses are very similar in cut, their necklines match, etc, showing how Andy had become like Miranda.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

I liked that it wasn’t the last scene of the film too! Because Andy’s look in the last scene of the film was stellar and showed her growth.

[@user-fx6qg9td5p]

The book is written by a person who has just left university and has only known the comfort of a school like schedule where its easier to see friends, and i feel like the film is a caricature of this. Life changes when you enter the world of work, for everyone. It sucks, but its where you learn who you are or who you can be. Andy wanted the easy way out, one year of hard work to get what she wanted rather than work through the boring bits for a few years. Shes missed the most important part of transitioning between school and the rest of her life

[@tenderw1lderness]

I remember Andy's interview when she said. "Basically, it's this job or Auto Universe." She LOOKED everywhere for a different job. I don't know how easy it is to get hired in New York but where I'm at? Jobs won't even get back to you to tell you they don't want you. She got in where she fit in trying to get her bills paid. Her friends playing around with her phone when Miranda called made me mad because I knew none of them were about to pay her bills if she got fired. I hope Nate was ready to foot most of the rent if she had to settle with Auto Universe. Then, she actually had a chance to network and get her foot in the writing scene the night of Nate's birthday but she turned it down because she was already late as it was and tried to salvage the situation. To this day Nate doesn't even know about that sacrifice, he just knows that she was late. Honestly, since she was already late, she may as well have gone back in. She might have gotten an opportunity that same night and been able to quit working for Miranda, we'll never know. Not saying it's guaranteed, but it's not impossible either.

[@alarydavidnin]

About the floor wipe at the beggining, yes, Miranda deals bad with her... but also SHES RIGHT many people find something they dont understand silly or a waste of time, that for many others including that person has a direct or inderect impact... what people should do is treat everything with respect, once you understand whats it them you decide how that values or devalues in your live. Like watching this channel for example, to me is important, because the professional perpective and the message but to somone may be silly or a waste of time, and to me thats also lack of respect. Edit: holy cow... Never thought about having so many likes! thanks!

[@nikitabreslin4568]

I didn't realise this speech was supposed to a put down, I was just like wow this is a really cool perspective from someone knowledgeable in the industry. Love when people go off about their special interests.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

AMEN

[@ariwl1]

Every once in a while I'll watch that speech on youtube and the comments will inevitably have a bunch of people decrying Miranda because they think the fashion industry IS stupid, showing they missed the point of what she said. That and they have a focused bias against the fashion industry even though much of modern life is just as frivolous and there's not an industry on Earth that doesn't have its own toxic failings.

[@Snowshowslow]

​@@ariwl1I mean, I think the fashion industry is stupid. Why do we collectively have to change what we wear every year, exploiting (often child) labour and natural resources in the process? BUT if you're choosing to be in the presence of people to whom it's important, ESPECIALLY if you choose to work there yourself, it's extremely rude to be derisive.

[@miss1of2]

​@@Snowshowslow The moral failings of the fashion industry negates nothing from Miranda's speech. Even before sweatshops and global capitalism. Royalty dictated fashion and its changes. People always had a desire to emulate those they admire. The modern fashion industry just exploits that.

[@JaeStories87]

I would LOVE a sequel to this episode where you analyze the terrible friend/boyfriend relationships in this movie. Her friends are the worst part of this movie.

[@LittleHobbit13]

I am _living_ to see all the people, on a video about why Miranda is a shit boss, are mostly focused on how the greater villain in this movie was Nate and the rest of Andy's friends because they took a hard experience and made it unnecessarily worse for her. "Villain Therapy: Andy's 'Support' Structure"

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Except for her dad. I loved her dad.

[@kalsa3104]

I swear I'm trying to understand, but it's hard. Miranda is so needlessly shitty, but somehow the boyfriend is worse 😂

[@PandoraLockhart]

It's like the moment that Andy isn't revolving around them and being their people pleaser and getting them all of these expensive things that they want, then they are totally okay Disrespecting and mocking her. They're bad friends and so is the boyfriend. It's okay for him to be working this chef position which has similar bad work life balance but the moment that she's not 1,000% supporting him, she suddenly shallow and " has no integrity"

[@thearcanamodernau8130]

Except Doug. He was constantly praising Andy's job and supporting her but for some reason people don't remember that.

[@LittleHobbit13]

@@thearcanamodernau8130 Yeah, her one friend who wasn't a jerk about the industry but then mysteriously wasn't in the rest of the film after that. I think about that every time I watch the movie, haha.

[@kaseys7433]

What I love about your channel as opposed to other therapy channels is that there are actual examples of what is healthy vs. what is not. As someone who has been in toxic and abusive relationships my entire life, this has made it much easier for me to recognize when this is happening to me in real life.

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Thank you! We're so glad to be helpful.

[@INDIGO_BABY-xj5de]

2:19 the buckles are different, that’s why it matters because of how it can draw the eye.

[@patriciaarodriguez6641]

Meryl did an amazing job of portraying someone who is abusive but makes you feel conflicted as the abused at the same time. Also, narcissists in my experience can be extremely charming which throws you off.

[@valgardener7656]

I don't see any evidence that she is a narcissist. She is extremely perfectionistic and maybe OCD. She is focused on her work, not herself. She is very aware of her responsibilities to the magazine and the people who work for the magazine. She is aware of how her actions affect others and how others see her. None of this is typical of narcissism. Honestly, from the bizarre moral judgments made in this video, the CT guys seem to have a more narcissistic POV than Miranda does.

[@harmony8623]

Remember narcissists are people with a genetic influenced and trauma based personality disorder (NPD), not just for toxic people or abusers. Narcissist is not synonymous with toxic, abuser, etc. and majority of narcs are just trying to live their lives struggling with all the cluster B ableism

[@universalpower419]

​@@valgardener7656They have a more narcisistic POV? Care to explain how?

[@valgardener7656]

@@universalpower419 They interpret this entire film from a very narrow childish POV. Like young co-workers who think their feelings should come first to all their coworkers at all times, no matter how serious and dangerous the work they are doing. In the CT view, there are no standards of professionalism to be maintained. There are no shareholders, CEO's or advertisers to answer to. There are no careers and livelihoods at stake by the thousands. If Miranda hurts Andrea's feelings, then regardless of the context, that means she is a narcissist, and her sole goal is making Andrea feel bad about herself. Because, again, all those other thousands of human beings affected by the work Miranda is doing don't exist or matter. That's a narcissistic viewpoint. These guys actually say things like "Miranda determines Andrea's worth by her usefulness" as though that isn't what all bosses do to their employees when acting in their role as bosses. That fatuous speech about "all humans have the same worth" is the kind of thing I'd expect a narcissist to say. It's a grandiose attempt to sound noble, that is actually horribly harmful. A surgeon who develops Parkinson's no longer has the same worth in the workplace as a surgeon. He just doesn't. A boss who cares about the welfare of his hospital and his patients won't pretend otherwise for an INSTANT. A boss who does pretend otherwise is probably a narcissist or sociopath. Further, the best examples of narcissistic abuse in this movie come from Andrea's "friends". And these guys seem to give it a complete pass, or even endorse it. Also, narcissists tend to rely on meaningless word salad and doublespeak, which is this video all the way through. I'm not saying they are narcissists, just to be clear. It's easy to get the same effect from not paying attention to the movie to begin with, and then just saying things on video at random without thinking.

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Oh yeh, they’re not all cut from the same cloth. They can be so charismatic and even caring at times.

[@ynazzra]

Nate was very immature and avoidant. Rather than own how neglected he felt, he projected like a child. He could have been honest about missing Andi, confess fearing the distance between them that grew as her interests changed and share how insignificant he felt. At least Andi would have the chance to empathise with him and potentially relate to him.

[@deztheray8935]

Ya, he was super dumb and I HATE how she goes back to him at the end. They really should’ve made her friends and boyfriend likable to make that part more understandable. It’s hard to see as becoming this villain when her friends are the kind that start tossing her phone around when her boss is calling when they clearly know that could get her fired. Also Nate’s reaction to Andy deciding not to eat dinner because all the girls are so skinny and she shouldn’t is that he’ll eat it for her to NOT WASTE THE MONEY spent on it 😭 she’s skipping dinner to be skinny and he doesn’t at all acknowledge that and is just worried about the food going to waste.

[@lonerdreamer92]

I'm so glad you pointed out how overused the words "toxic" and "narcissist" is. Social media platforms like TikTok act like those are the only words to exist and it's incredibly irritating (and limiting).

[@BeYounique...Maryanne]

I agree! A former "friend" called me a narcissist just because I called him out on his garbage. He said that I wanted everyone to worship me, when all I wanted was a mere "thank you" for doing something nice. His translation of my kind act was either way off, or he felt ashamed that he couldn't be bothered to thank me and then got all weird when I called him on it. And don't even get me started on the term "toxic positivity." Some people are truly genuinely positive and mean every sweet thing they say. I have a sister like this who sees all the good in people, including strangers, and gives a ton of compliments. I love that about her. She'll just go up to someone and say, "You're so pretty." It makes people smile :)

[@retrogamerdad9621]

I've seen someone adopt that term on false pretense and wreck house... It's awful, and shows the power of influence social media has.

[@Garcelle1987]

@@BeYounique...Maryanne ‘Toxic positivity’ sounds as nonsensical as ‘toxic femininity ‘ & ‘reverse racism’ Lol

[@BeYounique...Maryanne]

@@Garcelle1987 I know, right? Some people are just so cynical they can't believe a person is happy most of the time.

[@catT5236]

10:43 I agree with you about inherent worth as a human being, but as a disabled woman I have to say that while this SHOULD be how people see it they often don't. When you become disabled unfortunately a lot of people DO see you as being less. Being less productive, being less worthy, being less human. There is a great deal of ableism programmed into us by society. So while being inherently worthwhile because you are a human should be the viewpoint people have, in reality they often don't. Many people don't even realise they link the ability to work & be productive with worthiness.

[@destined2bebossy]

I worked for a Doctor like this!! Hired me on as her receptionist but had me doing call for her restaurant. Had the office assistant ordering her bed and making sure her dogs were fed while she was on vacation. She would literally make me lie to patients to cover up her being late to the office. So fitting I used to call her the devil

[@debbiemoore2747]

I've worked for both male and female consultants. Can confirm some are this way.

[@louilelee9978]

Maybe an additional episode for devil wears prada where in we tackle "the real devil in TDWP: Miranda or Andy's friends "

[@voyance4elle]

Yaaaasss I second that!!! @cinematherapyshow

[@quoththeraven9]

Yes! That would be really interesting. From how the characters were written to how they actually came out in the movie (we're supposed to side with them, but a lot of us don't). They're inmature and they bully Andy right after they accepted her "fashion gifts" and act shocked when she gets mad at them. I get not taking things too seriously, but you don't do that at the expense of someone else. Also, Lily's "speech" bothers me way more than Nate's, when she's like "The Andy I know...", people change, you can call them out on their bullsh*t, but I feel like a good friend would ask questions before reacting like that. How about you ask your friend what's going on and have a talk? I get more frustrated over that than over Nate's behaviour.

[@louilelee9978]

​@@voyance4elleright?! They're so mean >.

[@starlingswallow]

Love that idea!!

[@haute03]

Or we can do another video on the real villain: societal expectations of women (focusing on women in the fashion industry).

[@rosyface_]

Miranda is a horrible boss, but I agree with Andy when she says that if Miranda was a man people would be different about her. I think she’s a fantastic businesswoman and disagree that she’s a monster. I think she makes ruthless choices to maintain her position, but I don’t agree that makes her a monster. She’s not out here murdering people.

[@benu_bird]

Sorry, I've worked for men like Miranda, and they were monsters. You don't have to murder people to be a monster. Killing people's souls is also devastating. You can be a fantastic business person and not be a complete bastard.

[@is_just_diana]

I just paused to congratulate Gandalf on his acting skills. He's such a good actor and such a good boy

[@isabelledetaillefer2726]

I got to the point where I though Streep was a good actress but not as exceptional as everyone made her out to be. And then she played Miranda. A completely different character from any of the ones she did before...and she knocked it into the stratosphere! What an act! Her best performance of all, in my book.

[@LisaSimpsonRules]

The person you always take their calls, that's the person who you're a relationship with. ---- Such wisdom.

[@astoriarego8304]

I graduated Harvard Law: my classmates are senior partners making a million+ a year, powerful government officials you have probably have heard of, etc. Not one of them is surprised when we opt out of a life of money and power. I have had people high five me at reunions when they hear I have opted out so entirely. Honestly, sometimes I think we live vicariously through each other - I love watching them conquer the world and they understand the appeal of my simple life in Queens. And knowing which Federal Judge loves dive bars and UFC is pretty sweet.

[@ninino86]

Not done with the video, but I hope that you point out that her friends and boyfriend is not blameless here. They are toxic in their own right. This is Andys first job and she has to put the effort in. Shes not perfect but are you telling me that the boyfriend who works in a new york restaurant doesnt have long and crazy hours too? And there is a scene where the friends grab her phone and wont give it back knowing that it is Miranda, how Miranda is and that she will punish Andy if she doesnt get through..?! What children, they are also willingly creating suffering for Andy.

[@voyance4elle]

Yup... exactly!!

[@miss1of2]

If she had been dealing with a toxic boss in almost any other industry... No one would blame her for sticking it out... Especially, when the reward could be as high as your dream job, which was what was being promised to Andy.

[@crystalward1444]

I think Andy was primed to endure a bad boss because of the friends she kept.

[@voyance4elle]

@@miss1of2 true!! good point :)

[@melissagastorf3664]

Her boyfriend was unsupportive from the minute she took the job. He is completely awful, and while the job did cause her to sacrifice a lot, but he was not a good man. Actually he was unsupportive before that. He thought he was better than Andy at the beginning of the movie and he feels inadequate later. He can't even be honest why he wants out

[@giada7571]

No listen the video, they explain this. He's right

[@LisaSimpsonRules]

I think that he is right to a certain degree: there has to be a point in which Andy needs to have some sort of personal-work balance. He is whiny, and doesn't try to understand her as much as he could, but he is making several points which are very valid.

[@justalex8502]

This. Also Emily has never been Andrea's friend? And vice versa? Andy had to carry orders to keep her job and get her references for the career she wants. Why would she try to defend Emily and ruin her career? Especially since Emily would have immediately done the same? The hypocrisy.

[@orirune3079]

He's unsupportive of her job because of two things: one, he has his own life and struggles (and she has started completely neglecting him), and two, because her job is ruining her, as he explains. I'm not sure why he should be expected to be okay with her acting like she does. She ignores him, breaks her promises, and is transforming into a completely different person, one who is miserable, superficial, and has lost the ideals that she used to have.

[@LisaSimpsonRules]

@@orirune3079 I think that he could be a little more understanding. And that couple of friends they have are toxic. When they give a toast about 'jobs that pay the rent', I think that there is value in that. In movies characters always have these big vocations, but in real life, 99 % of the people they have just a job which can or cannot pay their bills, there is no vocation attached. I think that the interpretation of his role in all the chaos of Andy's life has changed with the years. He has been accused of trying to break her down, but I do believe that he has reasons to complain, although he could have handled it better.

[@colleenmueller7556]

"If you're being abused by your boss, you don't have to stand for that. You can find another path." That hit me right between the eyes because that was my story. I got out of a toxic work environment and I'm much happier where I am now because of it.

[@jasmineberman2797]

If you guys haven’t already talked about it, I would love to see you do an analysis and/or a Psychology of a Villain of the chef from The Menu! It has some interesting themes about losing what you’re passionate about, and I think it would be right up your alley!

[@VictorCardosoMoraes]

Usually love the videos but not sure I’m onboard with this one. Andy started her journey judging others and thinking she’s better than other people for being “serious”. She didn’t have any work experience and deemed the decisions people made at runway as superficial. This story is about becoming a balanced person by not neglecting parts of yourself and judging others to feel better about yourself. You find acceptance and maturity in Andy’s arch and the end redeems Miranda by having her recognise Andy’s stellar work ethic which is something she appreciates. Yes Miranda is a toxic boss, but Andy and Miranda taught each other things by contrast and this video just completely vilanises Miranda when she’s the reason for Andy’s coming of age and finding maturity and comfort in her skin.

[@Alayhoo]

💯I was disappointed with this one.

[@kira_0505]

Fully agree

[@Alivieina]

Not to mention she was COMPLETELY not ready for the interview. She is lucky she even got the job originally. Yes Miranda is toxic- but Andie was not perfect at all.

[@OndansetronDabigatran]

@@Alivieina totally. I wonder why Andi's weaknesses arent mentioned, she is arrogant at the beginning and kinda sucks. But she grows.

[@universalpower419]

Sure Andi grow because of Miranda, but that doesn't make her any less of a Villain, just because You end up as a better person doesn't mean You can justify abuse that way.

[@AnandaSage]

Okay but can we talk about how her friends and boyfriend especially are kinda crappy?

[@reikun86]

Yeah. They certainly were not helping once Andie found her groove at work.

[@ninino86]

Thank you! So few people point this out just wrote a whole comment about their childish and selfish ways.

[@IrishBob-m2u]

I think everyone forgets that they are not following the story along with us. They don’t see firsthand what Andy goes through with Miranda and Runway. All they see is their friend becoming more distant and different as her clothes change, her behavior changes, and how shes now chained to this phone like a lifeline. They could have been more supportive and try to talk to her to understand, but remember they’re not seeing what we’re seeing. In their minds, they all have ‘jobs that pay the rent,’ and they don’t understand why Andy’s the only one changing so much from it to the point of becoming a different person. So, again, they could be better, but they’re not complete s***bags, IMHO.

[@stephaniehickey4103]

And I think people overlook the power Miranda had in the industry. It’s a thrown away comment, but Emily said her last assistant made her missed a call and now works for TV Guide. Miranda could have destroyed.Andi’s career in publishing. It wasn’t just that Andi was getting sucked into the world. Her boyfriend and friends didn’t seem to understand what kind of boss Miranda was. If they worked for a “nightmare” boss, they could work at another restaurant or art Gallery, they would not be blackballed from their entire industry just on one person‘s word.

[@voyance4elle]

thank you so much for pointing that out! @@stephaniehickey4103

[@allysinlombard]

It’s interesting to see how she goes from calling her Emily to Andi to Andrea. A perfect 3 act structure! I’ve seen this movie SO many times!

[@louiseyoung3383]

I can’t recall Miranda calling her Andi in the move?

[@pony7653]

Time to rewatch because she never called her Andie, though.

[@carlasmit6446]

I just have to say, I don't think you Internet Dads realize how much I needed to hear this episode. I just went through something like this, and your advice just emphasizes how right I am in my choice of leaving that toxic environment. Thanks so much for everything

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

You're so welcome! 😊

[@crazyoptimists6896]

this is truth in what they said about the phone all. Here's the thing. Not everyone has the money to NOT pickup the phone when their boss calls. Not everyone has the leverage to NOT pickup the phone. Not everyone has the support system to survive NOT picking up that phone.

[@janelleg597]

But EVERYONE has a choice. Everyone.

[@BatAmerica]

Miranda is the classic example: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." She wants to achieve something women aren't typically associated with at that time of release: being on top in a male-dominated industry, and the issue is her approach. While Andy's friends and boyfriend are a terrible support system, Andy at least understands why you must pick your friends more closely. Meanwhile, Miranda misunderstands that just because she is good at doing something her way doesn't mean that her way is the only means of achieving a goal. She should be more focused on being constructive toward her employee's work (like the floor wipe) rather than destructive toward Andy's self-esteem.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

No

[@BatAmerica]

@@anainesgonzalez8868 I don't understand what part of that you are disagreeing with.

[@anainesgonzalez8868]

@@BatAmerica there are no good intentions in Miranda

[@BatAmerica]

@@anainesgonzalez8868 Ah got it, thank you. Also, her goal originally was sincerely trying to build a good fashion line. It is her ego that gets in the way.

[@frankhui7457]

The irony is that Andy is at first terrible at the job because she doesn't take the job seriously enough. Miranda is unquestionably a narcissist and she fails to mentor Andy properly. Nigel is the one who gives her the wake up call and guidance she needs to excel. Once she adjusted her attitude, we and Miranda clearly see that she's better at the job than Emily and has more potential to succeed I also have to disagree with your assessment that she goes into thinking she can have it all. She doing this to get ahead and it's important to note she didn't have a cascade of offers to intern. I agree with others. Nate was a lousy and unsupportive boyfriend. He and her friends incorrectly blame the industry for her descent. It's not the Fashion World that corrupted Andy, it's ambition. Miranda was scarily dead on when she told Andy she was a young up and coming version of herself

[@sawanna508]

My opinion is. If Andy had been a young fashonista from the start who adores Runway and other magazine Miranda would not have treated her differently in any way because she is aweful to everyone else too. Look how she treats Emily who is dedicated to her job, or how she treats even Nigel. She dosn't respect or care about any of them. Akting as if Andy is only misstreaded because she is unintrested into the industry while she is facing impossible demands is basically victim shaming. I think, if anyone has problems with the way you dress it's never truely about cloths (even if Andy is working in fashon industry) and I doubt a real live Miranda would be more friendly to Andy after changing her cloths.

[@leucrocuta]

Totally - Nigel is the good mentor, and his story is the one that deserves attention and it's a tragedy that he doesn't get it. He loves fashion, and he isn't cruel, he lifts others up in a way that he himself deserved.

[@Arushi701]

@@leucrocutaThe speech where he guides her can be considered cruel though. Who’s going to get motivated by hearing- “You’re not trying but whining, six?”

[@shootyindigo5193]

Thank you so much for covering this movie! It is such a great film with amazing acting talent!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Our pleasure!

[@patystairan]

Something I would like to comment on about the scene with Miranda giving a fashion lesson to Andy is that despite the narcissism and etc., there is a depth of truth that I would like to highlight, which is the fact that Miranda has courage (which very few people have) to crush a comment, look or malicious act in relation to your work and what you love passionately and give your soul to do with dedication and perfection, just with a simple explanation of what your work and your passion are about, and This scene is incredible not because it diminishes Andy but because it says "you are criticizing something that you don't even know and don't even know where it came from, so please keep quiet and let the professional work, because this professional gave blood, sweat and soul to do it what do you like, if you don't like it, what the hell are you doing here?", and that was beautiful to watch, thank you Maryl Streep and the writers of this scene, and I hope that people can be inspired by this just to have the courage to defend what they love, without losing your humanity of course

[@flwwlizz]

the “nobody can do what i do”, to me as someone who is aiming to work sort of in the fashion industry (costume design) i think is true to a degree. not saying its not narcissistic, but throughout the entire movie we are shown miranda’s work ethic. she is ALWAYS working. and she is damn good at it, she doesnt decline peoples suggestions because of anything unreasonable (unless she is punishing someone) she does it for a legitimate reason. i think that gives her even more power and she knows it. only fueling her narcissism.

[@Eggsther]

if they dont talk about how unsupportive Andy's friends are (ESPECIALLY HER BOYFRIEND WHO'S A CHEF IN NEW YORK AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER ABOUT HAVING A JOB IN THAT CITY) imma riot /hj

[@SusanDelgado1177]

Right on, I hated her bf, in the movie and in the book. She needs to move on

[@voyance4elle]

you were spot on.... sadly.

[@heathercoffey6]

Exactly! Miranda is awful but the people in her life and know her can’t see she is struggling and needs support. The chef boyfriend should at least be able to understand being in a toxic work environment, crazy work hours and no home life.

[@Me-wk3ix]

I agree. I just think the friends and the boyfriend are really their own episode.

[@katearcher8514]

Yes! Thank you!

[@WaywardAce420]

Shout out to those who were in a toxic work environment with a boss like Miranda and got out and are in a better place, despite their attempts to make you think you’re not a good fit. To those who are still in a place like that, you deserve better, keep putting yourself out there and you’ll make it!

[@BeYounique...Maryanne]

Great words! When I was younger I worked as an editorial assistant and stayed way longer than I should have. My editor didn't respect me, even though I received an award in journalism. He was a loose cannon who often screamed at the female employees, (never the males) including a proofreader in her 70s!! One day he was screaming at me for 45 minutes straight because I failed to get an obituary in the newspaper (the funeral home never returned my call to confirm the obituary, so technically it was illegal to put it in). Eventually the managing editor came out of her office and said to him, "That's enough, you were going on for 45 minutes. Let it go. Leave her alone!" The entire time I just listened to him yell, like a deer in headlights. I didn't even defend myself because I was so defeated. (In the past I'd always defend myself, I just got so tired and was beginning to feel like a broken record). I went home, thought about it, came in the next day and gave three months notice. However the stress got worse and the "three months notice" turned to a mere two weeks, and I was like, "Enough is enough, I'm out of here." I packed up my stuff, and an entertainment editor who loved working with me walked me to the car with tears in her eyes. She said, "You helped me a lot." I always took the backroads home because I love taking my time and listening to music. But that day, I took the parkway because I couldn't wait to get home. I got home, crawled under the covers on the couch and cried for three days. Then I started my own home-based business, helping people edit/write their books, and also continued as a freelance journalist. Several years later, I started public speaking and creating programs for libraries. I also had several books traditionally published; two in which I received cash advances. I share this story to anyone in a bad situation. PLEASE, just believe in yourself. A bad job is abuse because you are humiliated, belittled, and scared. I spent many sleepless nights, had chest pains, lost too much weight. It was horrible. Just leave. Whatever your faith is, let that be your guiding light. It will get better -- better than you can imagine!

[@Chinni_C888]

I don't think I've ever complemented the background lighting you have going on. It is such a nice touch!

[@elessartelcontar6578]

If you want to be great at something, you will have to pay the price. Andy didn’t want to pay the price; she’s a big girl and made her decision. But, she saw was greatness is and what it demands. We also see Nigel, who is great and has paid the price, but has the reward snatched from his grasp.

[@EE-Shepherd]

I didn't realize how much I needed this episode until it came across my feed. I only recently watched this and I was blown away by all the performances. but Meryl Streep did such a wonderful job delivering her lines without ever raising her voice in the role. This movie twisted my head and opinions around so much until the end when everything became clear with the reveal in Paris.

[@jlcollins14]

One of the most awesome casts. But, Stanly Tucci in this movie! Perfection!

[@CinemaTherapyShow]

Right!?

[@lillyenovis15]

He’s phenomenal and he and Meryl and Anne all played off each other so beautifully to enrich their characters!

[@MsVorpalBlade]

@@lillyenovis15 Stanley and Meryl together are always a white hot good time

[@EepsayYukay]

As far as manipulative bosses/superiors go, I think Whiplash would be another excellent topic for character analysis on this channel. Both Fletcher and Andrew are wellsprings of unhealthy obsession that could give us some chilling but important insights into how artists often feel the need to push themselves (or others, in Fletcher's case) beyond the breaking point to reach perfection.

[@Banzii_Mavuso]

This film has been an obsession for me for years. I used to be a little like Fletcher and then years later I worked for a Fletcher and it wasn't nice lol

[@tiffanypersaud3518]

Yup!

[@Sate12]

I actually like Miranda's Tirade on the Blue Sweater because it Shows who she is and why she is the absolute best. She knows all this off the top of her head and she can run it down while doing 3 other things. She has this command because she EARNED this command

[@universalpower419]

Miranda is the best at her job, there is no doubt, but that doesn't mean she can just abuse her power the way she does. You are an enabler.

[@Sate12]

@@universalpower419 I don't like the abusive parts (And there's a lot) but an easy character "Shortcut" is a scene like this that shows she didn't sleep her way to the top or cheat. She is there because she belongs there

[@Edmonton-of2ec]

3:42 I absolutely do not feel bad for Andy in this scene. Is Miranda a narcissist with impossible expectations? Probably. But Andy had the audacity to demean the profession of everyone in that room and expected not to get smacked down for it. That’s arrogance and was quickly corrected

[@AereliaOfTheCrows]

I do appreciate that they add the scenes that add a bit of humanity to Miranda. It's so easy to take these sorts of characters and make them a one-dimensional monster. She is a bad boss, she is a horrible person. She's not a good person. But she is a person.

[@vessagroker98]

I had a boss just like Miranda, she was my first employer, I worked for her at a lawyers office. She was really the devil, yelled at me every week and thought she was the GOAT. I worked there for 3 1/2 years and ended up suffering from burnout. While I was there it didn't felt *that bad* because it was my first work experience. When I watched "The Devil wears Prada" I didn't saw that Miranda was a bad person. I was like "she's the boss, it has to be this way, she has a lot of responsibility, it's fine" After I quit my job it took me years to realize how much trauma was created because of this job. I am currently in therapy (4 years after quitting) because I still have nightmares, it's always the same dream: Something happens and I lose my current dream job and the only employer that takes me is her. And I go there back in hell and ask her for a job. It's horrific. When I watch the movie nowadays I can see the bad behaviour and her narcissistic ways. I'm glad I can realize that and that I got out.

[@shambhavitripathi6124]

As much as I hate Miranda's treatment of Andy, I love how Andy could at least get some positive aspects. Her sense of fashion being ridiculous to appreciating fashion industry and going out of her comfort zone does work and she does display some sense of resilience . These two sentences are both true at the same time and not contradict each other.

[@ninagee4511]

I love this movie! Streep owned that role as "the fashion boss from hell." I did feel sorry for her because she had to sacrifice her marriage and time with her daughters just to stay successful in her career. Andy was the only one to give empathy for her coworkers at Runway for their choices (Emily skipping meals so she could go to Paris, Nigel's dream of going places out of joy instead of business, etc.) I honestly found this film teaching a lesson about the high price of chasing ambition over everything else. Compared to The Baroness from the movie Cruella, Miranda would be a joy to work with.

[@EveningSoother]

It never cease to surprise me how many people (apparently even great therapist and film-makers) don't get that Miranda is a monster, not _THE_ monster in this film. She isn't even the nastier around Andy, to be honest.

[@sadem1045]

I feel like anyone who can take Nate's side in this movie has no clue what many personal/executive assistants go through. Andy was trying to afford her share of the rent and build a resume that would allow her to have her dream job. I'm sending so much love and support to personal/executive assistants..........they REALLY need it.

[@audrey5941]

Eight years out of a crappy relationship, and still trying to make sense of it. This was another interesting piece to the puzzle. I threw myself, heart and soul into a relationship that erased who I am, only to be unceremoniously shot out the other end landing exactly where I started. Realizing the freedom, the calm and the magic of my ordinary and simple life was the jewel reward, and for that I am grateful. 🙏

[@DebraJohnson-k3z]

I see this differently. She knew where she was going to work and there is a work “uniform” expected of her. I’m a nurse and I know the uniform expected of me. The relationship I see as dysfunctional is Andie and her boyfriend and girlfriend. They are putting guilt on her for changing and growing. Miranda is upfront regarding expectations.

[@redhedgehogocarina]

"Oh come on, what am I, four?!" Well, you turned your back and gave Andy the silent treatment and then walked off with a disingenous compliment, so you tell us, Nate :P Nate is the worst lol

[@impopquiz]

She’s not a narcissist, just a very knowledgeable on the biz person who pushes the people around her to be their best and also needs that power in a dog eats dog corporate world.

[@mickellbrown3]

This is the cinema therapy I didn’t know I needed. I had a boss similar to this and a job situation similar to this. I did lose myself quite a lot, my mental health took a pretty intense nose dive. I remember sitting in my car one day and I thought to myself, “ I have two choices. I can either go to work or I can end my life right now.” That’s how harmful these toxic situations and narcissistic people can be. Thankfully I got out and hind sights 20/20 and I woke up to how evil and corrupt that situation was. So glad it’s in the past.

[@christiannataylor2735]

I learned something from Devil Wears Prada. You can conform and change yourself to try to achieve success, but you may not like the person who comes out the other side. As someone who struggled with ED that messaging is very important in our fast paced society. You can live for others, but it probably won't make you happy.

[@AxelQC]

If you see the documentary "The September Issue" (2009), you have more sympathy for Anna Wintour. She has a major product to publish on a tight deadline and has to deal with all these artistic types who don't respect her time and the demands on her schedule. She has to be tough because otherwise the issue will be late and that's unacceptable.

[@meganrogers3571]

It's not just her schedule. Magazines are locked into a print schedule because printers have more than one client, so there's a genuine external deadline.

[@cornelisjacobus2083]

Try to see it from Miranda's side: she is defending her trade against somebody who doesn't take it seriously and she does so by delivering a mini-workshop on fashion. She is not just being a monster, she is also an effective coach.

[@sawanna508]

Beeing an effective coach would be giving her that lection without putting her down and humiliating her infront of everyone.

[@BrokensoulRider]

Some people need to have their egos blown over first for them to listen. Understand one thing: most people do not like having their world view shifted. And often times that shift has to be forced by someone publicly humiliating you for a behavior that you know probably wouldn't be a good idea, but you did it anyways. Andi had an ego that needed to be popped because she had the youthful 'I'm better than you' mentality most people have after turning 16 if it's not popped. And in it being popped, it forced her to open her eyes, and find something beautiful in what she thought was stupid. @@sawanna508

[@BatAmerica]

That's a good point. I tried that before and here's the problem. When she mentions being "disappointed in her," even though Andy knows what she did wrong, that wasn't being a good boss. She wasn't constructive or giving practical criticism; she was only trying to hurt Andy.

[@Julieseven]

Oh please, there was no need for her to defend fashion against Andy. Miranda looked down on Andy from the first second she met her. Yes, Andy was naive and judgmental in her own way, but she unlearned most of that from Emily, not Miranda. Miranda is an arrogant narcissist, not a role model.

[@BrokensoulRider]

Still doesn't excuse that Andy came into this job with her nose in the air and, essentially, a judgmental bitch. She left more level headed and with a healthy appreciation for what was going on. @@Julieseven

[@FrancoAir]

I leaned to be great at my job because of this movie, look beyond what people want ( your boss) and you will succeed in your job. Cant tell you how this helped me be on top of the game while others were caught off guard during meetings.