Habanero Pineapple Mead - 18% Alcohol and Spicy Sweet!

[@maxchalice5625]

I'm stopping in the middle of this video to say thank you for the chalkboard animation. It really helped somebody like me that has trouble visualizing numbers in space. I've always wanted to suggest to add a whiteboard to your videos as a bit of an omage to the chemistry motif. But I just cringe suggesting more work to a couple that has done so much to help the community. Thanks for all that y'all do

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Not a problem. We have struggled for years to find a convenient way to show the math! Glad it helped you.

[@katiebowman2270]

The chalk board and visuals of the hydrometer on the side are SO HELPFUL! Helps me track the math so I can do it on mine! Thank you!!!! Please keep doing this!!!!

[@scrook138]

I'm with Brian on this one. I made this and added another quart of pineapple juice and less rum and I think it's the right balance. Waiting for it to sit another two weeks and the pineapple bits to fall out of suspension for bottling and we'll see where it's at flavor wise.

[@WrokkerGaming]

"If you like your friends, share it with your friends. If you don't, keep it to yourself because they are not worthy!". Derica had quite the smile on her face by the end of this video, almost like a few glasses of this contributed to it xD I can't wait to make this, just waiting for a carboy to be available!

[@vincemckesey5879]

As a winemaker I can feel your joy in seeing you’ll enjoying the final result in clarity and taste.

[@silverAlphashooter]

My absolute favorite part is at 22:15 "Where she goes, nobody knows" Ded, kilt me sooo bad!!!😂😂😂❤❤❤

[@Midnightson444]

I’ve been making an Apricot/Habanero mead for a few years. It is a very nice combination.

[@georgehardisty8948]

The chalkboard is a nice addition to your videos.😊

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thank you!

[@thefitnessguy5702]

I love the red bucket of sanitization. It's the only reason why I watch this channel.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

The only reason??

[@thefitnessguy5702]

Well there might be this quirky couple that come in a distant 2nd and 3rd but thats only if you don't count the auto siphon. By the way I just racked myt first brew in over 10 years after binge watching like half of your stuff.

[@robertschroeder1978]

I think that this video might be the first watched and enjoyed where Dericka was more excited than Brian! Smiles..... This recipe has me intrigued. Thanks again for the Channel content and enjoyment today.

[@kensparkes1712]

Loved the pictures you put up of the hydrometer! Keep up the good videos!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thsnks! Figured it was good to show a visual :)

[@alexcan669]

I’m not even a spice fan but I really want to make this! The math part was really helpful guys! Thank you for another great video and another teaching moment. You guys rock as always

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thanks :)

[@paulbyers806]

If you add a tube to your funnel and run it to the bottom of your fermenter you can make liquid additions with no splash.

[@inyourface0385]

Is that a 2 gallon fermenter? Looks a bit larger. Im attempting the same brew this weekend but i only have the 5gallon and single gallon fermenter. If i do it with single gallon would it be only 2.5lbs of honey?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

@inyourface0385 it's a 1.4 gallon.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

@inyourface0385 I would do 2.5 lbs of honey.

[@inyourface0385]

@@CitySteadingBrews thank you thank you very much. You two are awesome. I'll just scale everything down to 1 gallon. Keep doing what you're doing. Your channel got me started brewing about 3 years ago and I've learned so much.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Yes, scale everything but... the honey recommendation of 2.5 lbs is more of a sure bet than scaling from the original volume. If I redid this today, I wouldn't add 3.5 lbs for the batch size we used.

[@silverAlphashooter]

I just commented on your Welch's Wine, It is Awesome, but wanted to tell you here that we just did our 1st taste of the Habanero Pineapple Mead(haven't added pineapple juice yet) but the taste of this was damn good!!!! Super excited about how this one will turn out!!!

[@notsomadscientist9602]

As a grower of peppers and a maker of fermented hot sauces, This sounds amazing! Orange Habs are my all time favorite pepper flavor. Well done!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thanks!

[@mikeredrugger]

Any hits for someone growing Carolina Reaper and Ghost pepper for the first time ?

[@notsomadscientist9602]

@@mikeredrugger a simple hydroponics system is god tier. Tons of youtube videos about kratky and other super simple setups. I use an air pump in mine. Biggest thing is to be patient. Super hots grow pretty slow

[@grantpflum6844]

@@CitySteadingBrews Have you guys tried to make a Blood orange brew? I think you guys could do a lot of cool things with the combo of its color and flavor.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

It’s on the list!

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

This is making me nostalgic for the fruit-pepper barbecue sauces of the early aughts. I remember a raspberry-chipotle one that was amazing. This is definitely right up my alley.

[@UnionZack]

Love when I see a new video has dropped. And this is a recipe idea I absolutely love.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Awesome! Thanks for watching.

[@fliptrickninja]

Something that I started doing when pouring my reading samples back in is I will put the turkey baster into the brew and pour out the sample on the turkey baster so that it just flows into the brew.

[@gmscott9319]

I usually slice up a jalapeno into my mac and cheese. It's so good! I want to try this one.

[@K.Schenck]

You are so excited about this one. I'm getting in a party mood! 🎉

[@JohnA...]

I like the idea of the mango habanero mead, that sounds really good.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGjFpY2BiLqDicU

[@paulmorson2268]

Good afternoon from not so sunny England!! I’ve had slightly different results in primary to yours, difference may be that I added 2lb pineapple along with the habaneros… Airlock was still after 6 days so thought stalled like yours. Tested today and 71Beast has chewed through 0.114… in 6 days!!! I’m going to leave it a couple of weeks for the flavours of the fruit and peppers to infuse more - unless you suggest otherwise. Thanks to you both for continued entertainment, information and inspiration! 👍👍

[@usafirst79]

I was just thinking about trying a mango habenero mead. Nice to see we are on the same wavelength

[@CitySteadingBrews]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGjFpY2BiLqDicU

[@christophermenz4942]

I'm surprised Derica didn't dance on the table. I love to see girls when they are happy. It makes me smile. This is something I'll really need to make when I get back from doing FEMA stuff in Mississippi. Well... that is if mother nature allows it, she been flat out nuts this year.

[@blackdragonmaster79]

i love the hydrometer readings on the side now!! really makes me feel involved!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We figured it was a great visual aid.

[@dailykilluminati1310]

I like the hydrometer animation! Nice video!

[@TheVishtosh]

Going to be making my very first Mead today. Everything I've watched is super helpful. I don't care too much about the ABV at the end, I just wanna do it to make something yummy for me, my friends, and family can enjoy.

[@Max_Snellink]

Literally just pitched my 4th with my first last week.. Its so much fun had to do another.. And another. How did you get on?

[@yggnggv3519]

@@Max_SnellinkI have no equipment to filter or siphon what should I do

[@Max_Snellink]

@@yggnggv3519 pour very slowly or spend 15 to 20 on a siphon.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

I suggest an autosiphon. It’s an important piece of kit.

[@yggnggv3519]

@@CitySteadingBrews I don’t have a siphon unfortunately and can’t get one I have next to no equipment just a fermenting vessel

[@AndyPlayedGuitar]

I really want to give this a go! Love that you folk cover start through to tasting in one video.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

You should! It's easier than most people think :)

[@DonaldCraig-l8g]

What's not to like? Pineapple, spicy peppers and honey, yum! Once again you have added to my list of things to make, lol

[@CitySteadingBrews]

It's really good. I found a couple bottles recently.

[@seanpoole569]

wrey and nephew is my favorite white over proof rum

[@AnEventfulYear]

excited to try this one! As a lifelong fire breather, I look forward to the heat. Loving the hydrometer graphic too btw

[@AnEventfulYear]

@@MAGACOPP l love them, but I think the more controlled/ subdued heat would be a better option here.

[@nekobat1962]

This sounds delicious! At a bar I went to in Albuquerque I had a pineapple beer that had Serrano pepper slices floating in it. It stung a bit but I absolutely loved it!

[@ec2754]

Lol objective, subjective "head nod", subjective lol. You guys are funny, I love the way you bounce off each other!

[@iggreene9512]

To make the honey easier to get out of the container, heat it up in hot water. Almost like you would use a double boiler. The heat will de-crystalize it so it's easier to pour and get all the residuals out. Well done!

[@megane-yaro]

I'm looking forward to the one-year tasting video for this! Here's to dual 11's!

[@daigledj]

Love the chalkboard math and the hydrometer zoom-in/graphic additions. This brew is also definitely getting made later this summer when I get enough ripe habranero though I may skip fortification.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

If you do, make sure you stop possible refermentation in some way. But honestly, the rum flavors REALLY added to this. You don't have to overdo it either, just pass the yeast tolerance by a percentage or two and you should be fine.

[@dod352]

Wray & Nephew is really good, and it's a really classic funky Jamaican rum with a signature overripe banana flavor. Maybe not the best to use if people want something with a neutral flavor to fortify a mead, but that's the kind of flavor that works perfectly with the rest of the flavors in this particular mead. For a more neutral flavor overproof rum, I might suggest just using something like a Bacardi 151

[@chrisperrin4329]

Pineapple habanero mead is my favorite!!

[@MajorHavoc214]

I am going to have to try this with the Thai chili peppers I have growing right now.

[@PatrickBuckles]

I am addicted to the drink already and I haven't even made it yet...

[@CitySteadingBrews]

LOL

[@nathanielsizemore3946]

Derica, try the Mac & Cheese with diced Jalapeno Spam; I find it very nice.

[@Joenerfhearder]

At one time Sams club had a Pineapple Habanero sauce that was great on baked, roasted, grilled anything. Put it on chicken throw it in the oven and WOW. This looks great.

[@MrSkully93]

I am adoring your videos. ordered the stuff to make a simple mead first. I have some other ideas down the road, but ...walk before run! Saved this for later. We visit your neck of the woods sometimes (friends live in St Pete). I can totally seeing this being a festive Summer drink!

[@Anon-xd3cf]

So... I did it. I tweaked your recipe a little. Got started on my first capsicumel (3rd brew ever)... only made 3 litres (reduced to 2.2 litres afterwards) but hey... three full bottles and some spillage aint too bad. I went with a scotch bonnet and Polish forest honey capsicumel base, fermented almost dry with high tolerance mead yeast. Then before fermentation was complete, i removed the chillis and racked off to a new vessel containing some warm water and dried date paste (throughly mixed). Continued fermentation for another 10 days. After fermentation was completed, i racked that brew off into a larger container with 1kg of pineapple chunks and a little more honey. It's been like that for almost 14 days. Soon i will degass, bottle and pasturise. Thanks for all the inspiration and motivation.

[@Oho159]

Interesting ideas❤

[@courtneyinnes6019]

i did yalls mango habanero except i did 5 scotch bonnet peppers and 2 habanero. sonfar it has spice but its not over powering. you definitely feel the heat . i cant wait to see after fermentation and clarifier what happens.❤

[@felixhoy7659]

felix Hoy 0 seconds ago I really enjoy yoyr show. Have you made watermelon wine ? Cant find one. Thanks

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We have not yet, no.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

I also answered you an hour ago on another post about this.

[@felixhoy7659]

@@CitySteadingBrews Yes an d thank you.

[@sarzootashoota351]

I now want a "Knower of Rums" shirt. Thanks Brian 😂

[@CitySteadingBrews]

LOL

[@jameslefff269]

I would love to have some of this. If possible.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

You can make it, we showed you how :)

[@walterwhths]

I need this in my life.

[@seashizort]

I like the hydrometer pictograph 👍

[@lauriloo38c]

Love your videos and decided one of my retirement hobbies will be making meads (I’m on a Swedish heritage kick 😊). Going to try your Dragon’s Breath Mead first since my basement tavern is called Drakhålan (Dragon’s Hall) but just saw this video and was intrigued. My favorite margarita is from Tacos & Tequila at the Luxor in Vegas. It’s a Chipotle Pineapple margarita. Have you tried using chipotle in a capsicumel?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

No, just fresh chiles.

[@paulmorson2268]

I’m definitely trying this once habaneros are in season in the UK! Please would you tell me, did you discard the seeds or did they go in too? Cheers 👍

[@CitySteadingBrews]

It's all in there :)

[@Anon-xd3cf]

​@@CitySteadingBrewsIf I used a much hotter pepper would it be a good idea to remove the seeds?

[@Laochri]

Would rimming your glass with Tajín add or take away?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

That’s personal taste! I say go for it.

[@CarlPapa88]

I'm not a crazy fan if really spicy, but I like the idea.

[@paulmorson2268]

Hi! I think I’d be with Brian in wanting more of a pineapple taste - would putting fresh fruit in primary achieve this along with then adding the juice after?? Thanks 🙏

[@CitySteadingBrews]

It would help for sure.

[@slimmslimmanski1296]

I love watching your videos

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thank you!

[@johnowen8984]

I made pineapple wine a couple years ago, that was really good. Now i want to make this when i get some honey. I grow my own chillies so in a couple months it will be started1

[@treasurecoasttransparency5225]

Use a double boiler method to melt the honey back into a liquid, it is less likely to brochette the honey. No, the sugars are not concentrating more so developing. Creamed honey is a crystallization of honey where the crystal is round instead of blocky.

[@joelthemole3020]

Going to have to agree with Brian here that yeast like something about hot peppers. I made a version of this and it went NUTS. I have done quite a few meads of various honey and juice mixes, but this is my first one involving peppers and seriously day one was pretty normal, day two got serious but nothing CRAZY, however the morning of day 3 I came in and it was overflowing even though I had left as much if not more than the normal amount of headspace. It was forming thick mats on top of what I assume were yeast, like THICK mats, and also after a few days it was spicy as heck so I scooped out all the peppers and thick stuff to slow it down, and a bit of the liquid to give it more head space. Since I had the peppers and kinda funky looking but good tasting spicy goo I decided to throw all that in the blender with some smoked pineapple I had and some other mixed fruits I had in my fridge, a little vinegar, some salt and spices, and make a fruity hot sauce. Tasted great so I put it all in a big jar in the fridge with PLENTY of headspace thinking after it chilled and was stunned I would divide it up into some squeeze bottles and freeze all but one. NOPE 8 hours later in the fridge and it had already overflowed 3 times and was STILL fermenting like CRAZY even though it was down below 40F. I have a couple biology undergrad degrees, but no clue what all that is about. My wife has a Ph.D and teaches Microbiology at a college, I might set up a test for her to see it as well with identical base mead and add peppers to one and leave the other as a control.

[@andrewbush5582]

Love your guys videos. I’ve been watching them for several years just want to say thank you for the great content from here in Iowa

[@CitySteadingBrews]

You are welcome!

[@garyhowery1981]

I did a blueberries and black berry jalapeño cap and omg soooo good!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@felixhoy7659]

I am makiong a brew right now and the yeast i am using is Fleishmans , boosted by the same brand I killed in the freezer. I just did not know it would be killed in the freezer. 3 gal. batch in bucket and it is going likme mad. You two are amazing !!! Thanks

[@kreynolds1123]

I just got back from the brew store. I'm real excited to try this recipe. Thank you for your videos.😊 First specific gravity reading gets thrown back in "because it hasn't reached its final destination". 😉 I thought you belly was the final destination! 😂

[@brandonhooper5721]

I can't wait to try this!!!

[@jimroderick3195]

Have you ever tried freezing and removing the ice to make the mead stronger?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

No. Technically that is considered distilling by the US government too so it’s not a thing we will do on our show. It also concentrates methyl alcohols in any wine or mead and can in large enough quantities give a nasty hangover.

[@bobrice2441]

Peppers and hot sauce are always in my future, so i will definitely be trying this one! I may even substitiute Lemon Drop peppers for their citrusy notes. Great video, thank you both! 🤜☢️🤛 🌶️❤️

[@mohammedalotaibi6683]

I am following you from Saudi Arabia, a friend in the channel

[@scottbennett6200]

Thanks to Vinolab but another formula to figure out how much to add of 63% is ---> FORMULA FOLLOWS ---> Vol to add= Current volume / ((Spirit ABV - Desired ABV)/(Desired ABV-Current ABV)) Gives you 29.44oz of rum to get 18%. The 1/2 ounce difference is the ABV variance of .13... GOOD STUFF! Thanks for making me think,and google, Brian!! 🙂

[@caterack8875]

would love to see the same conset for a brew but different recipies. i loved this one like lord Vader loves force choke!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Hmm?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We have hundreds!

[@MrSweetbabyray]

I absolutely loved this video what I did enjoy is I have been watching these videos for years Brian always really liked capsicumel it took time for Derica to appreciate them as much so to no see one that she gave a higher rating just let you know how awesome it is

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Thank you!

[@samanthab7835]

Hey there! Love your videos they have helped me make my first wines in the past month. Question: I am getting ready for blackberries in my area to ripen. What kind of yeast would you recommend for a blackberry wine? Thanks!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

71b is our all around general choice. In this case it helps with the malic acid in the berries and helps retain fruity flavors. That said, you can use just about any yeast and it will do a fine job.

[@samanthab7835]

@@CitySteadingBrews Thank you so much!!! I'll keep that in mind!

[@samanthab7835]

@@CitySteadingBrews Thank you so much!!! I'll keep that in mind!

[@the_whiskeyshaman]

Wow this one sounds so good.

[@apryldawn5485]

This looks fabulous and I can't wait to make it!!!

[@i8ntrt]

So my brew has bee percolating for 2 weeks now. SG 1110 today's first check it is 1020. Added yeast hulls as you did. I am thinking of adding a couple more Habanero. I am leaving for Florida on Friday so will check again before I leave. Seems to be following the same path as your brew did.

[@TrailoFire]

Yum looks good. Great video thanks

[@KASmith1536]

Take the crystallized honey jar and put it in a pan of boiling/near boiling water. You can microwave it as well, yet I prefer the slower method.

[@silvershireTG]

Incredible video. Thank you.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

You are welcome. Thank you for watching :)

[@thomasmcfeeneyizart1615]

Hi, love the videos! I noticed you used a wide-mouth for primary fermentation here, but you usually use narrow-mouths. What's the difference between the two, and why would you choose one over another for different stages of fermentation? Thanks :)

[@CitySteadingBrews]

The larger wide mouths are a little bigger so when we rack, we get a full gallon. Also…if we have solids at all, a wide mouth is easier.

[@jameswine8811]

I can’t wait for the one year tasting

[@gatecrashercanadamb]

A bochet habanero pineapple mead also sounds delicious.

[@Jellofreeze]

Ok then, looks like I have my second brew to make this year. First is Rose Petal wine then this Pineapple Habanero. ( fingers crossed )

[@marcusanderson3767]

Making this one next!!!

[@keithward3332]

What was the purpose of not adding the pineapple during primary fermentation? Does pineapples get funky when fermented? Love the videos, you guys taught me everything when it comes to home brewing keep up the awesomeness.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Pineapple has acid in it that could have thrown off the fermentation. We are also finding that adding fruit afterward and not really expecting it to ferment makes for a fresher flavor.

[@Rob_1689]

Everytime I see a capsicumel I want to turn it into vinegar to make it the base for a hot sauce but this one could be super special

[@CitySteadingBrews]

There’s easier ways ti make hot sauce, lol.

[@RobV1978]

I'm inspired to make a capsicumel now. Just a base though, I can add fruits and flavors to the next batch. I'm not a huge fan of pineapple alcoholic beverages but the combo of habanero and pineapple intrigues me. Kind of wondering about sweet cherry though. 🤔

[@CitySteadingBrews]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqnZaXuNn8pjfrs

[@mohammedalotaibi6683]

Great video, I benefited from you, thank you

[@belliottadent1930]

Making this one today! Thanks for the recipe

[@strome3]

new to brewing, I have a few questions, how much yeast should I be using per gallon of mead, I have seen some put an entire packet and some only put 1/3, what is the difference there? oh also for melomels when do I add and remove the fruit/spices? Any advice would be great as I want to get some ready for some summer gifts

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We use a whole packet of yeast since it guarantees a viable colony. We have a lot of videos on spices and melomels but the gist is remove either when they have flavored it enough.

[@mechrior]

Hey Brian & Derica, just wondering if Derica left enough of this to do a 1 year tasting as it's coming up. Looking forward to it if it's happening.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We always have a bottle for the one year.

[@jackgraham7821]

Have you considered a "Scots Mead"? Almost as your Irish recipe, but using Heather and lemon. (Just throwing ideas out there)

[@allenturner8683]

Was curious what you used to rack that much liquid into if you racked it.

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Which time? We racked several times. A pitcher or fermenter most likely.

[@allenturner8683]

@@CitySteadingBrews for the final after adding rum in the big mouth bubbler. You guys are awesome at quickly replying 🙂

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Not sure we racked after adding rum.

[@allenturner8683]

@@CitySteadingBrews would it be safe for me to bottle at that point?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

If you fortify past the tolerance of the yeast, sure.

[@DoubleGluten]

Would lavlin d47 work for this? I have a finished khajit blood a black briar mead and I'm going to make this today if the d47 will be ok

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Technically any yeast "will work", but they will all give subtle differences.

[@matthm65210]

Great video guys. I wish I was there to sample it with you. Gotta love the TRBOS cameo: a necessary part of any CS Brews video. Question: For long term storage, you ought to keep the brew in a vessel with a small neck to minimize surface area where air touches your brew. However, if you're planning on drinking it new, can you just keep your brew in the secondary fermentation vessel?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Sure if you want to. :)

[@bradslone2409]

I've had a mango habanero from old smokey moonshine and even though I am not huge into spicy things but the mango habanero was not very spicy. So I'd love to try a pineapple habanero it really sounds good just as long it's not hugly spicy.

[@silverAlphashooter]

As New "Brewer" I think that is what I am. Correct me if I'm wrong😀. When you took your 3rd reading and got 1.032, what were you expecting? Below 0.999? When watching your guys videos, which I love, by the way!!! I always wonder when you say "That's interesting" but no real explanation or that if the reading is certain # that you weren't expecting. My wife and I always wonder what range were you expecting? At 24:55 you are tasting and say "does it need less pineapple" is that a joke or would you add water if something has too much??? You guys are Awesome to watch and makes me and my wife want to make all your meads. P.S. I used your links to make my purchases!!!! Have a great day!!!

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We can work on that. Wanted it lower, yes.

[@silverAlphashooter]

@@CitySteadingBrews We are going to do this today, super excited !!!! Oh yah also the Fruit cake mead... It won't have the full time to meld but, Sounds freaking amazing!! Yah for Christmas!!!

[@raulramos4230]

It should be great with cachaça too.

[@EarthEphemeralGems]

Thanks for this video. Question, what would happen if you replaced the water used originally with pineapple juice and added the Habanero's and honey to it and in the yeast in the yeast nutrient? How would that affect the end result?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Pineapple is better added later.

[@digital_footprint_safe]

Why do you need to pasteurize it? Is that necessary with all meads or was this a special case?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

We didn’t pasteurize it. You need to pasteurize if you backsweeten with fermentables and there is a chance of refermentation. By fortifying with rum, there was no chance of refermentation.

[@aceeye2805]

Great video guys, what do you think about bentonite clearing?

[@CitySteadingBrews]

If you can get pure food grade bentonite it seems alright. We got some but have yet to really need it.

[@johnives5093]

I did this a couple years ago with pomegranate juice and scotch bonnet 🌶. Not much of a Whisky drinker myself but everyone says it's tastes like jd fireball. Must dig it out and see how it's aged as it was hot hot hot on the way down last time I tasted it

[@frameworkart3985]

I wonder if you put pineapple chunks in with the habenero to steep along with it Before taking it all out and continuing with the pineapple juice

[@CitySteadingBrews]

Sure, you could. Pineapple is acidic though so you’d want to check pH. It might ferment too which may add to the complexity.