Clarifying Advaita Vedanta - Discussions on Dharma welcomes Ravindra Murthy

[@ultimatemeaning]

A clarification from Ravindra: The 3 states - dream, sleeping, or waking - is the pronouncement of the waking intellect; it is only a provisional concession given to the student who comes to this with this model; but in the ultimate culmination of understanding, all these are rescinded. But this is not the Truth. Brahman does NOT go through any states. The "name and form" of a state is a complete and independent "expression" of Brahman alone without any intrinsic change in Brahman. All this requires a careful understanding of the terminology and the indicatory meaning rather than literary meaning. Again, this is best done in the form of a dialogue. I will be happy to clarify these during our next meeting. Also, I have elected not to provide any responses under comments directly on KZbin, as these clarifications are best provided via a dialogue. Otherwise, in a pure written format, there is potential for significant misunderstanding . Thank you. Ravi

[@maryfreund4957]

Thanks for having Ravindra on! I appreciate his simple explanations and his no bs attitude. Also, he blew my mind a few times 💀🙏💚

[@ultimatemeaning]

Ravi has personal experience of the path he explains, and that is the key point!

[@maryfreund4957]

@ultimatemeaning that is certainly evident! So, when we gain this knowledge from our direct experience, our perception of reality changes. Is this change in perception now fixed?

[@brianbuczynski3555]

Wonderful discussion. Thank you both!❤

[@ultimatemeaning]

Have you seen this one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rl7Ld6ygdrufptksi=7ui8KixHin4wV8j1

[@brianbuczynski3555]

@@ultimatemeaning checking out now!

[@wolfk2258]

Arsha Bodha on YT has an Introduction to Vedanta video series that's well done. Swami Sarvapriyananda of NY Vedanta is also a great teacher with tons of talks on the Internet.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thanks for the tips Wolf 🙏🙏🙏

[@PP-G]

Thankyou both that was a fascinating discussion..great stuff❤

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thanks for listening! 🙏🙏🙏

[@brandankelly4069]

Veda derives from the root Vid which means ‘to know’. Hence Veda simply means Knowledge. However, in this context it means the highest spiritual knowledge.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thank you Brandan that agrees with the Tibetan translations🙏🙏🙏

[@Shanti-0M]

Dear Choga, Thank you for the blessings of your wisdom. I always walk away a bit wiser and am given many excellent ways of staying grounded in the Atman from your teachings. It’s a joy contemplating these truths you share so distinctly. Tonight, I loved ❤️ listening to Ravi; he does a masterful job of describing Advaita-Vedanta. I have been blessed from an early age to believe that the Divine was laying crumbs along this path that is experienced; and as I picked up the clues that the Divine Mother left, understanding happened….bit by bit. I’ve been through a lot and have learned to see the Truth from many perspectives. I’m sort of like the guy in the George Harrison lyric from his last album titled… Brainwashed. It goes… if you don’t know where you’re going, any road will get you there. George loved Advaita, and he helped this young Catholic youth; crack the shell and start to explore the teachings from the East. I learned so much from the Buddha and fell hard for the Tibetan culture. I loved to read the teachings of the great Sufi mystics. Jesus my first teacher has been in me from the beginning of it all; and if Christians knew Advaita they would be able to see the similarities in the writings of Christ’s followers… But, when I finally took up a formal meditation practice there was a teacher who told me to read.. I Am That by Nisargadatta Maharaj and it was the wow moment that lit the fire. Nisargadatta was a very unique teacher of Advaita, and has a powerful no nonsense way of feeding you the truth. I also started to devour the teachings of Ramana Maharshi and he is a giant of these ancient wisdom teachings who has a powerful testimony. I also love the Ramakrishna and Vivekananda connection to the lineage of Advaita teachers. I saw one comment mentioned Swami Sarvapriyananda of the NY Vedanta Society who is of the lineage of Ramakrishna and this lineage also pays homage to the wisdom of Shankara. Swami Sarvapriyananda and you would be a beautifully rare feast for any aspirant looking into the nature of self realization and the Divine. Through Advaita I understand I Am That and since that realization everything is the Divine and That, is always interacting with Itself and every experience is appropriate; just minister to it with love and serve the suffering and broken hearted through the Blissful freedom of Self. Whether you are abased or abound; your joy isn’t dependent upon the circumstances; it has become your nature and as a servant to all… dish out the good vibrations liberally. Ravi was a rare treat, for me another crumb from Mother to satisfy that desire to know the Divine intimately. As you can tell he lit a fire in my fingers … sorry for the rambling. So my friend and crumb Choga, thanks 🙏 for making the world a better place because you are here living and sharing with us all. Funny thing about those crumbs along the path. When you take them out of your pocket later along the journey… they have become gems and rare jewels. Hopefully you reach out to Swami and start a dialogue, he is so humbly gifted to spread the word. I consider myself blessed to be able to sit at the feet of Ravi, Swami and you… call it good fortune! With love & gratitude… ✌🏼❤️🙏🕉 g

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thank you my friend, I don't know how wise I am but I agree Ravi give a very clear presentation, and not only that he is a genuinely decent human being (that comes first!)

[@ninaallchurch3101]

love it! "Who is the i that is dreaming, sleeping and awake?"

[@ultimatemeaning]

According to the Advaita it is Bhraman

[@ultimatemeaning]

In case you are wondering who was Ravindra's Father's teacher: Hi Choga: The name of my father's teacher is SATCHIDANANDENDRA SARASWATI. He is popularly known as Holenarasipur Swami ji. The name is mouthful and many may find it difficult to pronounce!! Here is the website address run by his students. While the majority of the works are in Kannada (one of the languages in India), there are quite a few in English also. It is not advisable to read any of the books without the personal guidance of a teacher and some foundation in basic approach to this philosophy; there is great potential for confusion and misapprehension. It will be like a voyage on an ocean without a navigation system. Adhyatma Prakash Karyalaya (adhyatma prakasha.org) Thank you. Ravi

[@brandankelly4069]

Thank you for this beautiful and brilliant exposition on Advaita Vedanta philosophy. There was great respect and humility on behalf of both participants. 🕉️

[@MacShrike]

Thank you Choga for sharing this interaction. Very humble and humbling. I want to say/ask more but it seems everything is pre-answered. Perhaps the "quest" leads to the answer of the cause for the quest itself only. And since effect and cause are intertwined, examining the desire for the answers for the reasons for the effect are the reasons for causing the effect and the desire itself. The last sentence I just finished on the fly so it made some sense. It appears to me, that this is knowledge that cannot be known... as knowledge. On the up side: this is a very auspicious moment/video.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Your a philosopher MAC thanks for the eloquent words🙏🙏🙏

[@Happy_Limpet]

Interesting . This way of thinking to me seems that it would render a human very powerless , its almost deterministic in thinking - nobody is to blame for anything as everything they experienced before shaped them so lets never punish anyone etc , no need for prison as it wasnt " their " fault ultimatley .Too passive in my mind . I understand i am more than the constituent parts , i may not be my name , age , experiences, history or attachments but this body is linked to them , those things , even if they are not " real"..But yes , push and pull are both " movement ".🤨 Thankyou .,

[@ultimatemeaning]

Yes this contradicts the position of the Tibetan other empty school that states that apparent outer reality depends on self determination of the individual. 🙏🙏🙏

[@Shapeshifter1594]

But also consider that he didn't get the opportunity to explain anything in much detail though. It's a bit unfair to assume that he's deterministic in his approach based on this interaction alone no?

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@Shapeshifter1594 Not to worry Ravindra will return to the channel soon to clarify the finer points!

[@Shapeshifter1594]

@@ultimatemeaning That's great. He's a joy to listen to.

[@reversefulfillment9189]

Namaste comrades 🙏 These are my kind of discussions. ✌️

[@ultimatemeaning]

Another such discussion for you my friend: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rl7Ld6ygdrufptksi=7ui8KixHin4wV8j1

[@reversefulfillment9189]

Thanks, Karma Choga. Btw I found this. Sanskrit veda- "knowledge, insight, sacred writings," derivative from the base of veda "(he/she) knows," vid- "knowledge"; akin to Greek oîde "(he/she) knows," Old English witan "to know" @ultimatemeaning

[@waiataaroha]

This is all philosophical gibberish does not help anyone at all in fact it can cause a lot of damage .... the world is in dire need for loving kindness and compassion in action ..... there are countless videos of this nature that did not help anyone and it is a waste of energy and time .... using this platform to inspire people to do good in this collapsing world is the golden key

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@reversefulfillment9189 Thanks for that it is the same when translating "Veda" in Tibetan "Rig" knowledge, seeing, awareness, ...

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@waiataaroha Sorry to hear you feel that way, but as far as I can see Ravindra has help many people, not only in his work as a physician but because of his humble, kind, and altruistic character 🙏🙏🙏

[@Fralibers]

Really interesting conversation. It would be great for you to interview someone like George Barselaar to get a Kashmir shaivism point of view. I heard there were a lot of common ground (pun intended) between Tibetan Buddhism and KS.

[@ninaallchurch3101]

Great discussion,, thank you!

[@SethEvans-r2j]

Good one! The Sage was talking about the time space dieties coincidentally. Reverence to you both for your soul sciences.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Deities dependent on time/ space are not highly revered in the Buddha Dharma because they are unable to offer refuge, but maybe I missed your point?

[@SethEvans-r2j]

@@ultimatemeaning Who they're how we are. There is a connection between all. Our psychology derived from aspects of their personality. The Narrows or the history of. Parallel, cpmparitive research. "Heru er" assension = insight. You advise from within soul, Jiva Advocate.

[@gunkwretch3697]

I just found your channel for my interest in Buddhism but I realized you live on Vancouver Island like me as well!

[@ultimatemeaning]

Hi Gunk pleased to meet you. What part of the island are you on?

[@gunkwretch3697]

Greater Victoria area... but I have lived in various places over 34 years on the island

[@gunkwretch3697]

@@ultimatemeaning I am happy to see you making your meditation retreat and spreading the dharma, people need it more than ever... I am a bit worried about the Kali Yuga becoming more and more literally true, but hey, life is going to have suffering, at worst this is the last call to leave this planet on the ferry boat to Nirvana or the Pure Land. Shiva helps me deal with this as well, excellent guest in this video and great general discussion.

[@mapetlv]

Beautiful! Thanks for discussion. For me as a person of little knowledge was not clear what are the biggest differences between Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism (apart from the approach taken on relative truth)?

[@ultimatemeaning]

There is a fundamental difference that became clear to me in this discussion and I address that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iovNeKBsqLudrLssi=nPCv_DFOR7ZOAslU

[@human-yy3xt]

Thank you for this video! I am reading the bhagavad gita, and it teaches these exact things that Ravi talks about.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Yes Ravi is quite learned on this topic although he will never say so himself! 🙏🙏🙏

[@That_Freedom_Guy]

If the raft is sound and can get us to the other shore of Truth, I care not by what name it is called (unless it's a dharma jet ski! ) 😅✌🏻🧡

[@ultimatemeaning]

Good point the vajrayana is like an orbital vehicle (incredibly fast but super dangerous!)

[@S3RAVA3LM]

I am awaiting my Rigveda translation by Jamison and Brereton, the most recent translation.I have Wilson's and Ralph Griffith's( his being in meter, really cool). Many India people critize the western translations. Fact is Wilson studied Sayana, an authority of Veda at one point; Griffith translated his in meter based on Wilson's translation. People in India critize the western's translation although many a Indian circles disagree with one another. There is bias - what could a westerner know that an india person doesn't? The fact is, Veda is everything of physics(nature), and despite modern physicists, the ancients had a real connection and mutual relationship with nature(physics). Back then, spirituality and science or metaphysics and physics were not to different things but one.

[@general9064]

The western academics may study under the highest seats in the east but they do it only to weaponize it later. Not all are like that for e.g. Arthur Avalon but a major western leftist academia is like that😊

[@S3RAVA3LM]

​@@general9064 could you give example of what you're stating here? Sri aurobindo had western education and was one of the best seers on Hindu metaphysics in recent times superceding many. H.H. Wilson studied Sayana's teachings and sanskrit - he didn't just one day decide to translate the veda. People that critize Wilson and Griffith are double minded: they attack the westerner translations because they're not of their own opinions, while keeping it hush hush that basically all the circles in India too have contrary understandings of veda meanings. And ultimately, it is ok to have different understandings of the Veda[metaphysics and physics(nature and science)] because of what it is - a squirel has a different experience than a dog, than a Segal, than a bear, than an ant, than a monkey. Fact is there are people today who claim to know the "secrets" of the veda.... they are incapable of simply conveying the truth of; the occult and concealed unfoldment of the Divine light, nature and metaphysics - which is profound. If one wants to better understand the Veda, study the Platonists in Pythagoras, Plato, Plotinus, Proclus, Iamblichis - these men give a master key in penetrating the profound texts.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thanks for the tips! 🙏🙏🙏

[@lordlatch]

That's why the distinction between consciousness and awareness. Awareness don't require an environment or subject/object. Consciousness is dual.

[@jalma_ngumbara]

Great discussion, thank you ❤

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thank you Jamla for participating!♥

[@davidmickles5012]

I think from a Madhyamaka perspective one could say we are neither this body nor distinct from this body. This is the perspective of whole-ism or interdependence. We are not an INDEPENDENT body and so identifying with or as an independent physical body is illusory. At the same time, because all is interdependent we could also say we are exactly this body.. but not in isolation - which is the way we usually view it. ❤🙏

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thanks again for your insightful comments David. Hope to have another discussion with Ravi soon 🙏

[@viaesta]

Thank you 😎🙏🏻 Amazing wonderful guest! So rare to meet others who can speak on the deepest aspects of Advaita Vedanta. Do you think he would agree that equanimous Nondual Awareness is like the screen on which reality is projected on?

[@ultimatemeaning]

You know what? I will pass on your question and he can give his answer directly! 🙏🙏🙏

[@viaesta]

@@ultimatemeaning That is so kind. Thank you for your time and for also sharing your thoughts on this. 😎🙏🏻🌴

[@ultimatemeaning]

Hello friend here is Ravindra's answer: Dear friend: I do hope that I have understood your question correctly. Nondual Awareness (same as INDIVISIBLE CONSCIOUSNESS) is the REALITY/ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Reality is NOT different from Nondual Awareness; there is never ever any separation between the two and there is no question of "reality" being projected on it. The intrinsic nature of Nondual Awareness is Existence/Consciousness/Reality. Please note that this does not represent a principle with 3 different properties, just as light and heat are not 2 different properties in the sun. This is the Eternal irreducible substratum in which and made of which, all appearances rise and fall and is LIFE in its widest sense. This is the eternal source of reality from which all "appearances" borrow their existence and reality from, during their sojourn. Also please note that the "stuff" or the "substance" of all that appears is non different from Awareness/Consciousness, just as a "wave" is made of water only, non different from the ocean in which it arose. Please do not accept a single word of mine without thorough personal enquiry/verification. If this is to become a living Truth for you, you need to establish this as an IRREFUTABLE FACT/TRUTH, within YOURSELF by YOURSELF. Please do not accept it on blind faith. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me if you need further clarification. Thank you.

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@viaesta Pleasure was all mine! 🙏🙏🙏

[@viaesta]

@@ultimatemeaning 😎🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 I thank you so much for your wisdom and for coming on Lama Choga’s show. Infinite blessings to all.

[@lokiholland]

Thanks!

[@lokiholland]

Great discussion ❤

[@parijatacharbonneau4090]

Lovely and inteligent man 🙏

[@ultimatemeaning]

Ravi is so kind and very genuine, I wish everyone was so polite! 🙏🙏🙏

[@Anna-n2t1z]

"It is what it is"

[@ultimatemeaning]

Sure, and so is there any need to try to change things, or should they be left the way they are? 🙏🙏🙏

[@Anna-n2t1z]

@@ultimatemeaning change is the very thing "I" observes! You can't bend the river, you are the river.

[@urgenlama7302]

A 80 years old having good sleeping habits has to have enlightened as every night during sleep one reaches deep sleep state .

[@SARASTANLEY-dg2wu]

Excellent discussion, many thanks. 🙏🏻🌀🙏🏻

[@ultimatemeaning]

My pleasure Sara 🙏🙏🙏

[@cnrxaum]

do you have an email for him? he works at a hospital in my town and i'd love to speak with him about his teachings.

[@croft1999]

💙💙💙

[@ultimatemeaning]

🙏🙏🙏

[@vedremo9240]

Thank you

[@ultimatemeaning]

🙏🙏🙏

[@kenjones102]

Veda is knowledge referring to one of the four vedas. Vidya refers to knowledge per se whereas avidya means ignorance.

[@ultimatemeaning]

Ah! Thank you Ken for clarifying! 🙏🙏🙏

[@kenjones102]

@@ultimatemeaning My pleasure. And thank you for interviewing this guest. A shout out to you from across the pond on the Sunshine Coast.

[@Forever177]

🙏

[@ultimatemeaning]

🙏

[@sree18697]

veda means knowledge....vedanta means end of knowledge or ultimate knowledge

[@ultimatemeaning]

Thank you so much for sharing that 🙏🙏🙏

[@lordlatch]

At the arrival of the answer, the question disappears.

[@philjiful]

Who is Ravindra. Could you explain his authority and background.on Vedanta? It would have been helpful to explain this.

[@philjiful]

I have had time to listen to this and Ravindra ji explains very humbly and clearly. He did not mention his father's guru who had written many books. Do you know his name?

[@ultimatemeaning]

PLease refer to 44:14 where Ravindra explains the authenticity of his transmission 🙏🙏🙏 I asked ravindra to give the name of his father's teacher, will let you know

[@ultimatemeaning]

Here is the name of Ravindra's fathers teacher and other information: Hi Choga: The name of my father's teacher is SATCHIDANANDENDRA SARASWATI. He is popularly known as Holenarasipur Swami ji. The name is mouthful and many may find it difficult to pronounce!! Here is the website address run by his students. While the majority of the works are in Kannada (one of the languages in India), there are quite a few in English also. It is not advisable to read any of the books without the personal guidance of a teacher and some foundation in basic approach to this philosophy; there is great potential for confusion and misapprehension. It will be like a voyage on an ocean without a navigation system. Adhyatma Prakash Karyalaya (adhyatma prakasha.org) Thank you. Ravi

[@snathan3198]

Do we need an authority? People with authority according to whom? This is spirituality and not a university subject or a field of academic subject!

[@philjiful]

@@snathan3198 tradition/ Lineage does offer some safeguards. If you or I speak on spirituality.. Why listen? There are too many self proclaimed gurus on you tube.

[@memesmojo5622]

23:35 so the whole philosophy falls apart...

[@ultimatemeaning]

Yeah a fundamental point of contention for every spiritual system, and one that even science isn't able to address

[@memesmojo5622]

​@@ultimatemeaningunless the spiritual system is dualistic, in which case there isnt such point of contention

[@Josephbrownbear]

Deluded I love that word. Maybe I love the idea of 3 D in one word.

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@memesmojo5622 all systems are dualistic BTW

[@jeremywickwire565]

I could write the most beautiful novel with white ink on a white page, but nobody could enjoy it. The novel is there, but nobody can experience it. If I use black ink though…..

[@friendsofthepygmies3932]

How is this related to the Buddha dhamma? Non-duality is an advaita idea

[@EugenethePhilostopher]

14:43 That's a pretty cool thought.

[@mpesks]

Can Veda come from the word Vidya?

[@ultimatemeaning]

I think they are from the same root: Vidya = correct seeing/ insight.In Tibetan we use རིག་"rig" for both veda and vidya it means "to see" or "to understand" or awareness

[@waiataaroha]

In deep sleep there is no awareness ... so let us pls cut this old weary concept ..... it is a prove of nothing .....

[@ultimatemeaning]

There are different conclusions that arises from this fact, and the Tibetan other empty school doesn't come to this conclusion, but ultimately there is little that can ultimately be proven

[@MacShrike]

Well, there is the awareness that there was no awareness; afterwards 🤔

[@waiataaroha]

@@MacShrike mental masturbation ..... that has no meaning whatsoever and does not lead to anything

[@brandankelly4069]

So how did you know you had a deep sleep if there was no awareness? Awareness goes beyond mere awareness of the sensory world or even the dream world.

[@MacShrike]

@@brandankelly4069knowing and being aware are not compatible per se. perhaps guessing and/or not-aware is better.

[@waiataaroha]

This is all philosophical gibberish does not help anyone at all in fact it can cause a lot of damage .... the world is in dire need for loving kindness and compassion in action ..... there are countless videos of this nature that did not help anyone and it is a waste of energy and time .... using this platform to inspire people to do good in this collapsing world is the golden key

[@ultimatemeaning]

Sorry to hear you feel that way, but as far as I can see Ravindra has help many people, not only in his work as a physician but because of his humble, kind, and altruistic character 🙏🙏🙏

[@waiataaroha]

@ultimatemeaning I am talking about these nondual useless talks, not him or you personally

[@ultimatemeaning]

@@waiataaroha Yes, but his and my character has been shaped by the influence of such philosophical talks. It is ideas that change the world and not physical actions.

[@waiataaroha]

@ultimatemeaning nondual talks have caused great damage to so many unripe minds. I believe you as a practicing monk should know this very well .... these talks are given privately to ripe practitioners who have spent lots of time in practice and are given systematically over a long period of time....

[@edenrose8831]

Many of us who are attempting to live a contemplative life tend to land on these philosophical questions and do appreciate the opportunity to learn and study from those we are inspired by. I’m not sure how you come to perceive it as a harmful act.

[@spem7390]

Crypto Buddhism 👀

[@albert.33]

🙏