Classic Paladin vs Rogue PvP Guide

Just a how too guide for putting those pesky rogues in their place for the good of Azeroth.

[@adonisbahrami3244]

Just watched ALL of your videos. You’re doing a great job with this channel and I enjoyed my time spent here. Keep up the good work! I’m looking forward to all future videos.

[@Williaem00]

The point regarding making a rogue kick to waste 25 energy is brilliant .

[@americanvirtues]

More videos please! I love the format and I love all the detailed info

[@Rooh47]

Great guide. I would just add "like a little bitch" to any of the described rogue actions to make it more accurate.

[@pallytime2156]

Listen... When I can take all there shit, trinket, turn around and blow them up out of existence with them having NO COUNTER PLAY. I Can't really complain that they are allowed to impotently have their way with me with me having no counter play for 30+ Seconds. A common saying among Reckoning Paladins in Classic is "I do what a rogue does, just much faster"

[@Makofueled]

I feel like something endemic to paladin allows for matchups to be thought out in long form lol. Good videos!

[@nathanael2572]

The matchup does not sound *quite* so lop-sided in favor of the paladin as people like to make it seem. I think when paladins scoff at this matchup, they have probably not faced really good rogues.

[@HugoBolzer]

in my experience ... most of the time the Rouges just runs away when under 40% health before i am able to kill fricking coward (and not coming back)

[@MrBoosta]

If I need to bubble in a fight I would use Fop right before bubble duration ends that way I have a bigger window and rogue cannot stun for a while

[@ModeKaioken]

I love this shit! I will watch all your pally videos mark my words!!!

[@lvevel6263]

Very interesting! Are you going to do every class?

[@pallytime2156]

Every Class except Paladin because dear GOD is that one the lamest thing ever either of them are reckoning. No one wants to hit each other.

[@gabrielwest2584]

Thanks!

[@Silaguk]

What are your thoughts on vs hemo rogues? And how many freezing bands do you suggest equipping when fighting against expose-armor rogues?

[@pallytime2156]

As Reckoning? Stun them and they die. No dodge /block/parry when stunned and they can't trinket stuns in classic so GG's. Expose armor REALLY likes to try to reset the fight and come back in with full energy bar while that expose is still on you. Run away to waist armors time is best. Costs rogue a sprit but really if you have a shield (and all none reckoning paladins ware a shield vs rogues) it doesn't really work. Expose Armor does like a flat armor reduction and shield gives you 3500+ Armor. Without reckoning you have to use ware down tactics. So Shield + Healing from Edward the odd is best. Ret has Repent to play with and Deep Holy Has Holy Shock. You really just out survive the rogue and run around wasting their CD's. You can't hurt them through evasion all that well so its just heal heal heal... run... CC... run Heal... You are playing around SPRITS more then Evasion at that point. It's a 2-3 Bubble fight. Meaning you plan to live the 60s between BoP and Bubble. You BoP first because she has a 3m CD. BoPing early is SUPER good. So say you get opened on... they expose armor or build up Combo Points then try to reset and you go for your run. They will likely stealth and sprit to catch you... Just BoP the first 6s Stun they Hit you with. You will be 90% life and have traded BoP for 1 sprit and Blind and have ALL the tools you need to make it to bubble... and likely around again to another BoP. Kinda gross actually. Having 3 piece rank gear and 35s HoJ CD makes the fight WAY easier. Edward the odd also does good. Watch Payo vs Holysaxyboy Or better yet Perplexity vs Holysaxyboy Holysaxyboy is the KING of paladin runner play.

[@Silaguk]

@@pallytime2156 Thank you for the detailed explanation. Would you kindly comment on the value of Freezing Band for palas too?

[@pallytime2156]

Expensive to get. Hard to have on you in a fight unless you go for a run and can get the gear reset. Trivializes vs Rogue fights when you have x2 of them BUT you still need to be sword and shield to REALLY make it work good. You lose a TON of HP using x2 of them which is an issue. And they don't really do anything for you that other items are doing. For example: Default Trinkets for ALL paladins in PvP is Goblin Mortar / Netomatic. Even if you had to use BOTH of those to go for a run you can just replace them with other trinket. Takes 6s to drop combat. So you can get into Rocket Boots, or niffty stop watch, or AGM / Burrower Shell Trinket. Point is rogue gunna lose, and spending 1,000 gold and x2 bag slots just to make them super dooper lose is kinda meh IMO. Now if you taking more then 1 rogue vs no reckoning Paladin they are BiS.@@Silaguk

[@Silaguk]

@@pallytime2156 Again, thank you for the detailed reply. I'm a Holy Reck myself and I happen to have two of them in my bank. So I was wondering if I should wear them or sell them.

[@IrregularPineapples]

What's the idea/story behind the advice about female Rogues? Is it a joke or?

[@kuyt3400]

Great information and breakdown. How would perception/stoneform factor into this fight?

[@pallytime2156]

It depends on your spec but stone form is overkill in the EXTREME against 99% of the rogue player base, in 80% of situations. It removes a single blind... which to me is as if you resisted one and honestly the rogue should be peacing out or they are retarded. As for Perception it is surprisingly useful for a variety of situations that are hard to describe... it limits a number of middle combat options for the rogue that are NOT good anyways so I didn't cover them... like vanish, drop combat, sap. Waists to much time, Health regen is active for to long, you had all the time in the world to heal back to full... so on. Its strongest use is before a fight even starts, rogues are very slow in stealth and make a noise when they are detected or seen. Combined with catseye elixer (look it up) Perception is GROSSLY overpowered in helping you hunt down either fleeing rogues or rogues that have recently been seen or detected. My favorite is to use it then mounth up and run around. I get a lot of easy rogue kills that way. Other fun facts include... weapon proc rates (1%, 2%, 3%) per hit are effected by weapon skill... the mechanics of which are TBD... so human paladins get a good bonus to their weapon proc chances which is often a big deal against good rogue players. For Dwarves the +10 frost resist is more of a deal in many fights the the stoneform... but I have little experience using stoneform just to be clear. Hope that helps.

[@kuyt3400]

@@pallytime2156 The thing is ive been really torn between choosing human or dwarf for my paladin. So much so that ive been leveling 2 paladins until I can make my final decision. This however is slowing down my progress to 60 as you can imagine. As for the spec/build, I intend to test out a Spelladin or Proc build in pvp (31Ret/20Holy) so its very interesting to hear that +weapon skills affect proc rates as I had never heard anyone mention it before. General consensus is weapon skill doesn't matter in pvp so this is new info to me. In group pvp I can see how being able to stoneform a blind could help save the life of a team mate but im mostly just considering 1 versus 1 and it would allow you to use BoP as another reset and heal under its affect which also seems very strong. Mostly Ive heard people say you wont know when to use perception because good rogues wont stealth where you can see them however with things like the Spy (classic) addon that tells you when a rogue stealths in your vicinity it makes perception more useful then most people think and also the fact that you can stack it with pots and engi goggles for better detection makes me question the general consensus of stoneform > perception in the context of 1 versus 1 against a rogue. How much value is there in preventing the rogue from getting the first opener? Seems like it could be worth more than negating one blind but would not have a 100% success rate. Stoneform would 100% of the time negate a blind. The +10 frost resists for dwarves has also been a consideration as it would help you stack resists easier but its nothing gear cant compensate for. Id like to go ahead and focus on my human paladin since I appreciate their aesthetic more. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and share your knowledge with me and the rest of the Paladin community.

[@pallytime2156]

Human better then dwarf one major reason. 1. you don't need stone form to fight them, its overkill in the extreme... if you think that they are going to kill you in 1v1 with holy shock heals and my combat tricks you are HILARIOUSLY mistaken. 2. No sane rogue will jump a Dwarf Paladin... this means less rogues to fight and beat... which leads to less 1v1's vs a rogue and more 1v2's vs a rogue + X. I don't like my enemies being smart around me, I want them to underestimate, think they can win cause all other paladins such, and then find out the hard way that they are wrong. 3. Blessing of Sacrifice > then stoneform for struging off blinds, sheep and the life in group pvp. Put it on tank or the like and you're good to go 90% of the time. Blinds are also weak vs pvp trinket, skull of doom, other players dotting you (always assume stupid players), and cleanses and dispells from other party members. If you're enemies are smart enough to coordinate chain cc on you, odds are you can open your mouth and say "yo blinded, can I get a dispell?"... its really a once in a blue moon issue in bg's. LASTLY the fact that you are so TORN = Play a damn human. If you didn't want human you would have gone stunty by now. You won't regret it honestly, as perception, and deception are THAT powerful... and well as the fact that the more people you are fighting with, the less effective CC gets. Stoneform overrated. More of a "grassing greener / minmaxing theory crafting for the 1v1 that is never going to happen because the rogues to be scared of are to smart for that outside of a duel tournement where they are forced to. And in general is over valued by non experienced players who use it as more of a crutch. I get the same issue with people going to HEAVY on the resists. I be like "bro... you were unavailable 100 reists ago... the fuck are you doing?" ... "RNG PROTECTION!"... uhuh... So hey, about that... the reason you NEED RNG protection... is because you are letting the fight last SOOOO long on account that you cannot threaten a KILL.. that RNG will be what kills you. Just saying. Anyways, those are my thoughts. Stoneform is good in that mythical 1v1 with the best rogue there is (which never happens)... but I get by just fine with my human paladin vs the like of the scariest rogues PERIOD in the best gear PERIOD... and yes perception is actually SUPER powerful in retail classic. Added bonus that it works vs kitty cats and Night Elves like NE Spreists that want to drop combat, stealth, eat / drink... Human = 90% win rate vs the best rogues Wharves = 100% win rate vs the best rogues Keep in mind "best rogues" = 1% of the player base. so we talking 1 out of 8 classes you may encounter, 10% of 1% of the time you would have liked stoneform over perceptions. Mind you while leveling and not in your best gear you will FEEL different because of how rogue damage works (flat scaling with level not gear)... but decent gear... 90% win against the best... 99% vs almost all rogues 1v1 as human reguardless of spec. Because they suck.

[@runClimbCode]

Great guide!

[@ValaD0S]

Thx!

[@theperfectbeing]

The fight against a dwarf paladin is much different. Most non experienced/pro rogues panic when you stone form out of the first blind and stun them.

[@sappho7278]

YES. Literally the whole reason I play dwarf fem even though human fems are cuter

[@Saltedslug382]

Stoneform removes blind right?

[@mrmurphymil]

Blessing of light or sanctuary in this match up?

[@1MoreTurn]

mrmurphymil sanctuary

[@honigson8776]

Where do you got your knowledge from? its crazy

[@pallytime2156]

Well originally I was pestering drakova for paladin info but then one day he dumped me off on pvp dueling realm called Henhouse and kind of just left me there for months before Classic came out. A dueling server is where you have most gear that you desire made available to you and you can jut go at it. Si with nothing better to do I just dueled 10+ hours a day every day for near 4 months while also picking the brains of other paladin enthusiasts. In my "gearing guide" there is a screenshot of my paladin named Rishidoom going to town on a target dummy with all the bonus healing effects rolling off the line. That's henhouse.

[@honigson8776]

​@@pallytime2156 wow thanks for the insight , i am playing rogue since 2005 but never understood the intricacies , because i mainly played pve and also was not interessted to play other classes , which i found necessary to become a good pvp player. hearing you speaking about small differences and cd trading is enlightning , thanks for sharing :) !

[@pallytime2156]

@@honigson8776 Rogues are very mechanically demanding from what I can see. I got made respect for a good rogue, though that being said they always always have an attitude

[@1MoreTurn]

Find a wall and put ur back to it.

[@winsause555]

Good stuff

[@shoeby9273]

Blessing of Light, ZHC, and low rank flash.

[@veile91]

ingame footage would be great lol

[@pallytime2156]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ6meaasi5uIZqc Did a video dueling a rank 14 rogue when I was in bad gear since people were complaining about it back then. The rogue is cheating with +500 stam and other buffs. You can see them on him at the end. Sadly I have to Loh to win because of those buffs. Buffs caused me to lose the toe to toe phase. I consider Loh to = a loss in a duel typically.

[@theyounggentleman5470]

Subbed

[@jimmy_79]

best spec?

[@Avrelivs_Gold]

/salute Subscribed!

[@jdmikeg4]

If anyone needs a Pally guide to beat a rogue, I think it’s time to re-roll.

[@Veksi8]

Just go full prot so rogues are pretty easy!