Classic WoW Hunters: Larvae, Badge of the Swarmguard (ANY GOOD?)

[@Xicala1]

Great detailed video. I am dwarf hunter and its frustrating that Larvae is not better than Ashjre'thul. I love guns and the sound they make because it reminds me to the magical leveling times :)

[@SaltyZera]

Martin Arrarte doesn’t it though??!!

[@Mcbuggler]

I asked about Larvea on your last video, thank you very much for making this video.

[@ThatOneWarrior]

@Zera, what if you adjust your rotation for the clipping? And by that I mean letting your auto shot go off before certain aimed/multi shot breakpoints. I wonder if adjusting your rotation would allow for a greater dps output with these new weapons.

[@legendofJupp]

Could you further explain what you mean? I understand it like that: clip when the current auto takes too long (like a second or more) and wait for it to go off when it's almost ready

[@Baengbum]

So the idea with badge should be to pop it at the very beginning of the fight which allows us to cover the missing armor reduction by the missing sunder stacks and the potential resists of curse/faerie at the very beginning of the fight.

[@gammacorp]

you didnt change ammo type... that what makes the gun better its cause you can easily farm Miniature Cannon Balls.

[@SaltyZera]

gammacorp ammo type has nothing to do with it. Clearly you haven’t played around with the simulator enough to know that. And by the way. Even using cannon balls, you still can’t overcome Ashjre’thul. Why is everyone so fixated on using an obsolete weapon?? 😂

[@beastybee555]

@@SaltyZera only because the model ,a lot of people think the model is very cool but it seems you are not a fan XD

[@makethinghappen]

​@@SaltyZera Hi Zera, been following your channel for a while, and I can say you have great content! Couple things - I can't disagree more with your statement about this being an obsolete weapon. First, you have to remember that dps simulators are not realistic at all. They are based on perfect scenarios that do not put into account boss mechanics, especially positioning which is extremely important for hunters. Second - even for non-dwarves, you are talking about a 13 dps advantage that the xbow has over the gun. I can guarantee you that everyone who play hunters (even at a serious level) will still clip their auto shots on occasion (how many times I do not know, but to say that they dont is just not true). Third - the drop chance for the gun is much higher than the crossbow (about a 1 in 4). Therefore, if hunters have the opportunity to get their hands on this, they ABSOLUTELY should. To summarize, 1. DPS simulators are not realistic. 2. The damage increase is a marginal. 3. High drop probability. My final thoughts - if you are a dwarf, this gun is just as powerful as the crossbow. Happy hunting!

[@SaltyZera]

Stephen Kulka I just meant that it’s obsolete by comparison to the crossbow. It’s still a solid option for those struggling to get the xBow. But it does less damage than Ashjre’thul 75% of the time. Regardless of sims or anything else. That’s hard to swallow. But you’re not wrong. It’s still 2nd BiS atm after Rhok and before Ashjre’thul.

[@makethinghappen]

Agree to disagree. But I don't think any good player would see a drastic damage increase if any at all if they swapped between the two. Simulators are just not realistic. Personally as a dwarf I don't even consider the crossbow an upgrade at all

[@manlawlol]

Larvae and Soulstring are going to give you more aspect of the hawk procs though. Just a thought.

[@DrNergale]

That is sadly not how PPM works. The Xbow produces more IoAtH procs.

[@manlawlol]

Interesting. I could definitely be wrong, but tooltip says 5% of normal ranged attacks? Do you have a source?

[@legendofJupp]

Not sure if it's true or not what manlawlol says. There's less (or none at all) guaranteed ppm then people expected -see the blue post about nightfall- so IAOTH might be better with faster weapons

[@cmarst01]

@zera, did an updated video come out in regards to Phase 6 and what trinkets should be swapped and when during boss fights?

[@bballprostar16]

Can you do some more number crunching on Badge now that we have been in AQ for awhile? Would like to know more about the trinket on boss fights and what you swap to after you use it. Thanks man!

[@SaltyZera]

Blake there’s really nothing new. Only fights you’d use it on is Twin Emps and maybe Bug Trio.

[@bballprostar16]

@@SaltyZera Okay, appreciate it man!

[@downdabeach]

Good and informative videos!

[@andrewmarttini9896]

Yooo Zera, you got any videos on Barb of the Sandreaver potential?

[@coza10]

when you compared the troll bow to the bwl crossbow, aren't you supposed to account for the +hit you don't need by changing gear around? same with dwarves and larvae?

[@SaltyZera]

coza10 I did that. Be sure to go back and look. You’ll see that when they have Ashjre’thul equipped they have Biznicks. Otherwise they have no need for the extra hit with either Larvae or Soulstring respectively. So they have the damage scope equipped then. Keep in mind their Racials.

[@piggy358]

​@@SaltyZera Is +7 scope the way to go though? What if you were to use Biznick's on the gun, then swap out various armour slots for crit stats over hit (rings in particular). Wouldn't the extra 3%crit (and possibly AP) you would then gain from the gear provide a dps improvement over having +7 damage? And in-turn provide overall dps increase?

[@piggy358]

​@@sou007 Hey thanks for the reply. Almost forgot about this comment, and yeah looking at it now I would probably say +7 is better. You could lose the hit on gear if you really tried though. Use full T2.5 - which has no hit (I'm pretty sure?) on entire set. Use +8 agi librams on head and legs, then take Prestor's neck, Ossi's belt, and Brood rep ring for 1% hit each. I wonder if this could actually be viable in a spec like Surv too? That way you're justifying +8 agi librams over ZG so you can get max agi.

[@legendofJupp]

My guild just had its fourth pair of thunder fury bindings drop this week. And we have never seen ashjrethul or asscandy drop once. I'll go for that stupid larvae cannon as a dworf so that our other hunters have a realistic chance of getting this xbow before phase 6

[@croszdrop1]

I got like 10k 20 dps bullets stocked up for this gun lol

[@jonw3602]

As Zera said try to go for Ashjre’thul. It’s a superior weapon.

[@undii]

if it ever drops. We haven't seen a single one since BWL came out

[@AHDDADV]

@@undii i kno that feelin bruh, same shit our side

[@patrickbauer8136]

Yo i just wanna say he neglects a lot of stuff , if u are a Dwarf then u can actually use tje gun to have an extra 3% hit wich allows u to actually with DFT and the Rep Ring from brood have (and 2% from zg enchants)9% hit already WITH 7Dmg scope , so u can Equip A LOT of dmg gear u can equip ring of the godslayer and actually slap on marshall gloves R10 Head and shoulders , aswell as an dmg only neck T 2,5 chest and Legs and just keep ur dragonstalkers belt shoes and armguards for ur setbonus. Also have th 26 agi back .... u left ALL of that aspect out of ur video :( i actually state that u will be able to do superior dmg with the larvae as a dwarf

[@AnnoyingSwedishGuy]

Do we know the armorvalue of AQ40 bosses now?

[@SaltyZera]

Da Coach yes. Same as BWL

[@AnnoyingSwedishGuy]

@@SaltyZera Thanks for the quick reply :)

[@Mcbuggler]

Hey Zera, can you address if we should have a frost weapon for Viscidus?

[@sprawl99999]

why would you not?

[@christopherpumphrey7023]

I got a Badge and its really good in situations when used right. I found in pvp its 10-15% damage increase. Usually pump out 14-18k damage after the 6th stat and thats with 0 aimed shots. All auto, multi, and arcanes.

[@SaltyZera]

Christopher Pumphrey arcane shot is not accurate. As it doesn’t deal with armor. It’s a spell. I believe you might’ve meant Aimed.

[@csf3lihao]

They are all good because they are the only things weve got.

[@optionchuc1]

I use a badge, its really not that great, so switched back to Jom/Blackhand... It will be amazing in TBC for leveling/heroic dungeons

[@aurska4061]

Hi, i was wondering if the trinket. « Jom Gabbar » is as good for hunters than it is for rogues ? Or should rogues be prio ? Thanks

[@MercronLoL]

Hey Zera, I found a new macro that will make melee weaving and just kiting in general way easier, as it completely negates the retry timer window if you spam /cast !Auto Shot AND also removes the retry timer firing off when the weapon is ready to fire. This means you can just spam this macro with no consequences. /Cast !Auto Shot /cleartarget /targetlasttarget /cast Auto Shot Try it out and let me know.

[@Pedalbored]

With AQ40 around the corner and fights lasting longer, would Enchant Bracer - Mana Regeneration be better than +1 AGI. Seems like 4 MP5 would help me do more damage long term.

[@Baengbum]

If you can get through the fight with a mana pot & rune and u dont go oom then it is not better, but probably worth considering for AQ progress.

[@Komoreeebi]

Mana pot + dark rune will take care of that

[@shwuggle]

Mageblood Potion helps a lot if you have regen issues. Also Brilliant Mana Oil is added in P5.

[@christhurston728]

@@shwuggle WF baby!

[@РоманСергеевич-ы4з]

@Zera, Hi, I'm bad speake english, sory. I don't found Stats and DPS Calculator for Content Phase 5 and 6, with loot for Phase 5 and 6. Do you know where found this? Thank in advance.

[@gbaby447]

@zera is this right when I saw u changed it you had sinew equipped and not a bullet bag pretty sure that changes things but not sure by how much

[@Baengbum]

The attackspeed is universal, doesnt matter what ranged weapon u use

[@mortenlundkristensen7050]

Hey Zera - how do you cope with the stagnation of hunter in AQ and Naxx?

[@jonw3602]

You can go t1 and there’s nothing wrong with that. However that being said myself and the hunter team I’m in are all full t2. Reason being the debuff. The more hunters that are in full DS the more the debuff is up on the boss or mob. Also the proc rate isn’t nearly as rare as ppl say imo

[@michaeloster93]

Can always go for R12^^

[@stephenwammer675]

So I just got this gun today, here is what I’m not understanding... it has better dps than ashjre, meaning that the “clipping” is the only reason it does less damage. Aimed shot is 3 seconds, and the speed on the larvae gun is 3 sec. so doesn’t this mean that the only reason it’s not better is because of human error and not timing your aimed shot perfectly? And why would that not be reflected in a SIM? It’s an automated perfect rotation right? I must be missing an element here...

[@SaltyZera]

what you're missing is the damage floor on Larvae is significantly lower than Ash. Meaning that 25% of the time it will do less damage than Ash, regardless of your rotation.

[@felixflodin5693]

Would it make sense to give badge of the swarmguard to a hunter that consistently does low damage, but shows up for every raid so the hunters doing most dps can have something better in that item slot?

[@da1cloud]

Hi Zera, I started playing Classic 3 months ago and have used your videos to get me up to speed with raiding. Things are flowing well and my dps is reaching new heights but I am still confused about ranged weapons. I understand the importance of slow speed to weave in aimed shot to minimize clipping but still am unable to grasp why Ashjre'thul is king. I see the damage floor and ceiling on each but wonder why the dps value stated on the weapon is not taken into account. Also, couldn't you unequip a quiver to negate clipping or would that dampen the overall auto shot dps?

[@SaltyZera]

Carlos Chavez weapon speed is crucial. Remember it’s all about clipping vs non clipping. DPS on a weapon is important. But not nearly as important as speed and weapon floor/ ceilings. Because we have to be able to bob and weave out Aimed Shots and Multi Shots into our Auto rotations effectively. And removing a quiver is bad idea since you’d lose out on valuable speed allowing you to do more damage in a less amount of time, all while doing so without clipping. So long as you’re using the appropriate weapon that is. I hope this helps.

[@da1cloud]

@@SaltyZera Awesome. That makes sense now, thank you!

[@varatic644]

Litteraly just got both of these last night on a warrior lol.

[@Bl3ndaable]

What about Rhok'delar vs Larvae for a troll?

[@SaltyZera]

Bl3ndaable larvae is better than Rhok regardless.

[@DrNergale]

Problem with Annihilator is the procrate. Ever tried to get Annihilator up on a 60 second bossfight? If it procs fast, great. Most of the time you get maybe one, if you're lucky 2 procs before the boss drops dead. Also: The Annihilator proc can be resisted. Which is super garbage considering that you normally dont have spellhit on you Annihilator wielder(s).

[@T00nstruck]

How much hit will you need as a dwarf when you use the gun?

[@deepfocus91]

3% base hit. You get 3 from weapon skill and 3 from scope

[@AHDDADV]

Is it possible to download that Google sheet u using ?

[@SkyfanWSB]

so Zera, hunters should use this trinket on bosses? or its only pvp trinket?

[@SaltyZera]

SkyfanWSB it’s great for Twin Emps. Since Vek’nilash is immune to CoR and FF. Even with Expose Armor. There’s nearly 20% damage increase that Hunters can benefit from by using Badge.

[@TheT0N1c]

Is Larvae for Troll still better than rhok?

[@TheMANffs]

Yes

[@FinestSPEC]

Probably not THAT significant, I would save the dkp or make it clear to LC that you want ashjrethul and want to pass on other weapons

[@Rev0UK1]

Still feels like your'e missing out on a ton of value from badge though What sort of dps are you gaining from say blackhands? just for comparison sake. Vs the 300 less armor you'd net with badge

[@Keoke_07]

you wouldn't net 300 less armor for the whole fight though. it only last 30 seconds and its a 3 minute cool down. So unless you're killing every boss in less than 30 seconds the 5.76% damage increase is actually going to be less depending on how long the fight actually is.

[@amundteigum666]

you will really like badge on twins, where you dont have recklessness on the melee boss

[@greasyg1026]

I wish Ashjre would actually drop. STILL using rhok. Warriors in the guild asking if I’d roll on larvae if it dropped..yeah I would since Ashjre is fake news in my raids.

[@felipecabral7366]

U're a god

[@bavarianwolf3806]

most wow classic players dont know, how much armor reduction helps you to do more dmg. The trinket is BiS, If you got NO Annihilator players in raid. If you have players with that weapon, the armor reduction is on 0% with all debuffs like sunder and faerie fire, then this trinket is useless.

[@SaltyZera]

Bavarian Wolf actually if you run improved expose armor non of that matters beyond FF and COR. then it’s worthless no matter what. Aside from cleave fights and Twin Emps.

[@bavarianwolf3806]

@@SaltyZera so whats the best trinket situation atm what you can do as a hunter? Dft and gabbar and after faign death switch to dft and earthstrike?

[@SaltyZera]

Bavarian Wolf dear god no. Don’t ever use DFT. Relying on DFT for his is a humongous mistake. Use JG + Charm to start. Then swap to Royal Seal + BB. If you have DFT, only use it in place of Royal Seal.

[@bavarianwolf3806]

@@SaltyZera what about earthstrike? So using JG and charm and fg and switch in earthtstrike and BB? Or is that 30 sec cooldown to use earthstrike too long. And earthstrike is easier to get ^^

[@KCurtis87]

You should have sim'd with imp EA over 5 sunders. Every hardcore high end guild runs with 1 rogue for this. If you do this trinket is almost useless for all bosses.

[@akse]

I guess if you play in a hardcore high end guild.. you should know to use another trinket in that case. We have 1 EA rogue but we run 2 raids every week so he is not always in the same raid. Then I could use the Badge..

[@patrickbauer8136]

Yo i just wanna say he neglects a lot of stuff , if u are a Dwarf then u can actually use tje gun to have an extra 3% hit wich allows u to actually with DFT and the Rep Ring from brood have (and 2% from zg enchants)9% hit already WITH 7Dmg scope , so u can Equip A LOT of dmg gear u can equip ring of the godslayer and actually slap on marshall gloves R10 Head and shoulders , aswell as an dmg only neck T 2,5 chest and Legs and just keep ur dragonstalkers belt shoes and armguards for ur setbonus. Also have th 26 agi back .... u left ALL of that aspect out of ur video :( i actually state that u will be able to do superior dmg with the larvae as a dwarf

[@SaltyZera]

Patrick Bauer that’s not even remotely true. Your load out does nothing to overtake Ashjre’thul. If you’d actually utilize the DPS simulator then you’d understand that even with +7 damage scope and a Dwarf Racial, Larvae cannot ever overtake Ashjre’thul. Please stop overshadowing facts with opinion. I layout exactly why Larvae will never overtake Ashjre’thul in the video and no amount of rearranging gear or load out can change the fact that 3/4 of the time, Larvae does less damage than Ashjre’thul. Believe me. As a Dwarf I would love to use Larvae. But it’s too fast, thus causes clipping. And it does less damage than Ashjre’thul 3/4 of the time baseline. Before any other factors are taken into consideration. Thus any improvements to either load out will essentially land in that same ballpark of damage difference. Law of averages doesn’t change based on your need for validation my friend. Take my advice. Don’t take an amazing tool away from your melee. If you already have Ashjre’thul, then let them have Larvae, and enjoy the second most powerful ranged weapon in the game. Because I know plenty of people in this same community who have yet to see it drop. Happy Hunting mate.

[@SaltyZera]

MLKKK - math doesn’t change though bro. It’s just a simple matter of the damage floor and ceiling. That alone will tell you Larvae is not nearly as good as Ash.