Clipping, and explaining string inverter vs micro inverter vs power optimizer Daily Dose of Mike

[@jeissonpinho1]

Hello teacher. I'm Jeisson, I live in Brazil, and I really agree with your explanations and explanations. Really to minimize problems because of Oversizing and Clipping. Microinverters and Optimizers are better. A big hug from Brazil, it was a great video.

[@MarineMikeCheck]

@@jeissonpinho1 I agree

[@DiscGolf_Viking]

Great video, just a side note. Systems with DC optimizers can still clip, it just happens at the inverter. Also its the voltage that drives the inverter/optimizer not the current.

[@markjauregui8138]

Nice, I have been subscribed to this channel for awhile, 6 years ago... could listen to solar information all day.... 👍🏻👍🏻

[@MarineMikeCheck]

My days of doing solar start ups on the west coast.

[@EvolveEnergyca]

In Canada on the cold sunny days you will clip but you are right the rest of the year there is a direct impact on higher production due to early and late production

[@annafuturetechnology9228]

I will go with micro instead of power optimiser, life of the normal inverter is half of micro, and any failure to the normal inverter shut down the entire system. So if you look at the ROI of entire system micro will be much better.

[@johnh8615]

Looking quick on this topic. Got scared from the rough stuff on the whiteboard.

[@TheMadMachine12]

Why dont you just right set micro inverters with the correct size panels then you have no clipping. I have 230w panels and m215s and only like 15 days a year do I ever get 215w output anyway

[@skyerenard8939]

is there a power optimizer system that goes right to battery charging rather then to inverter when I don't need an inverter. the one I saw makes it seem I am bound to use through the end only their product.

[@EvolveEnergyca]

AP micros are the same cost as SolarEdge with less problems and when I say less cost I am taking into account the installation and electrician costs

[@jcs1492]

Great video, I hope you (or somebody else ) can answer this question. What happens if you pair a 425 watt panel with a 400w Optimizer ? Since the panel does not produce 425w all the time and all days are not ideal. Would that be too much power for a 400w Optimizer ? Or..... Will it the optimizer just clip power when it reaches or exceeds 400 watts ? Thanks

[@MarineMikeCheck]

Honestly I’ve been out of solar business for few years now. But I would imagine it would. If it’s designed for 400. What I did believe in was every situation was unique and I would always recommend the best for that. Like why use optimizers if your 200 degrees with no shade 🤔. Just go straight string converter if it’s less expensive. Solar all about maximum return on your dollar. Lot of sales folks where more maximum return for them.

[@artsmith103]

@@MarineMikeCheck With SolarEdge, a big part of what the optimizer does is condition the voltage to match the inverter.

[@jesseperez7253]

really? expanding the system was never mentioned... most homes will increase usage within years, specially if the bill is lower now. panels will drop efficiency with years, expanding the system with out adding a complete string is important, is a great feature, and saves money for customers.

[@MarineMikeCheck]

That is another nice advantage to micro inverter, easier to expand with. panels do loose efficiency over the years, in fact most panel warranties state they will warrant the panel will produce 80%n of original production by years 20/25. about 20% drop. and people can tend to use more power when they go solar. It's all in the designers hands to build system right

[@djokadjokic3032]

@@MarineMikeCheck can you combine micro inverter with string inverter, i would add more panel and i have 2 string inverter but i cant add that much panel, i have no more space so i would add 12 more panels 3 x 4 with 3 microinverter with 1200w for all 3 phase, would that coused some problem to string inverter or grid?

[@EvolveEnergyca]

micro for Enphase anyway will do about 11% more then rated

[@ronsamson3559]

Informative - thanks. Buy Hodl AMC.

[@michaelambrosia]

I have to ask. Are you certain about what you said, "when a few panels are shaded, the whole string is down" Isn't that the point of having bypass diodes??? so that if some are shaded, they are bypassed and do not drag down the whole string

[@ek9772]

Michael Ambrosia you might want a product like AE-Solar. It will avoid hot spots, and will perform better than most solar panels when shaded. There are several videos in KZbin showing the difference in performance compared to other panels.

[@TheLUKONZEN]

What to expect if one chooses to connect a total of 20 kwp panels with optimizer on a single 17 kw solaredge? Is a clipping expected?

[@johnd01]

The 17kw will probably clip about 17.2kw but if you ever get more than 17.2 out of a 20k array you are doing really well and it will only be a few hours a year at best. You would need to be at a low temperature and have the sun pointed perpendicular to all the panels on a perfect day. Panel watt cost less than inverter watts in a lot of cases.

[@FPVREVIEWS]

I have a Enphase M250. is it ok to install 300 watt panels? it will just reach saturation, and be fine, right? or will it be overloaded?

[@artsmith103]

FPVREVIEWS Should be fine. Just read the rating info.

[@EVMANVSGAS]

Why wouldn't you just use a micro inverter that can that goes up to a higher wattage to make sure there is not clipping? Why would you run a 215 on a 260w panel, why not just run the 250 and not worry about clipping?

[@TomKacandes]

If you could drive the inverter to its max output every day (with no additional cost or amperage issues) that would be ideal. Since some days are less sunny, you are really making a decision about how much clipping to trade against how much cost ("extra" DC watts) to add "area under the curve" where you are pushing the inverter to 90% of capacity vs. 85% (for example) - that's 5% for those sun-hours, then you add up over all the sun-hours in the year to make your decision on design.

[@btrtrading8734]

Because the solar panel will degrade overtime and if you have the the micro wattage to close to the solar panel wattage you will have produtcion loss overtime.

[@jitumariner]

Do power optimizers come with monitoring as well?

[@f.i.l.d.e.p.s]

Jitender Kumar yes. it is a separate module paid separately attached to the meter. solaredge for example has a monitoring software for their dc optimizers

[@dannewkirk7096]

There will be 2 times it may clip one at the DC to DC interface the second at the inverter. The other disadvantage is every time electricity is inverted or converted there is a loss to heat. Just touch your car phone charger. Trying to capture this small amount by of clipping is not financially advisable. The optimizers have shown to heat up the panals so the net gain is mostly neglagable. Do your research don't believe what the person that comes to you tells you they all have the best just ask them.

[@jhill4963]

inverters with power optimizer beat putting electronics on the roof anyday... we used a sunnyboy 7.0 US and two strings of 16 x 300w panels and have a 3rd DC input for expansion later , perhaps a wind unit. also the other systems place more risk of radio/tv static from all the electronics on the roof.

[@EvolveEnergyca]

We have found a lot of failures on Optimizers and solar panels connected to them so I disagree. We do not see the same issues with micro and that is AP and Enphase. These units have no solar panel failures I had 3 warranty issues on 11 systems total in a 1 year period with the solarEdge product, that is huge. I use mainly micro and have no issues

[@ek9772]

TheEvolveGreen you seem to have the same experience as this guy: www.mcelectrical.com.au/solaredge-inverter-optimiser-review/

[@westvandude]

Solar-edge is ridiculously expensive. The inverter is cheap. But add in the optimizers and not so cheap. Enphase is ridiculously expensive as well. On comparable 28kw setup (100+ 300w panels) using 4x7kw SMA sunny boy inverters and their rapid shutdown system, all-in it is $17,000 less expensive than using enphase. I'm sorry, but if I add another one or two 7kw SMA inverters the system is going to blow enphase out of the water. Same system, how much longer is payback or break-even point for enphase @ $17k extra? Will enphase last 25yrs warranty? Even if I have to replace all SMA inverters after 12-15yrs with new ones... it's still cheaper and if you have to replace micro-inverters on the roof it's a lot more labour than replacing one string inverter. All you have to do is run the numbers, numbers don't lie.

[@ek9772]

westvandude on paper. If your installation is on a roof, how many times are you going to clean leaves blocking a single panel that is bringing down the output from a whole string. A string inverter makes sense where you have immediate access to do a quick clean up of the panels. If you will leave your solar panels for long periods of time unattended and without cleaning debris, then the output of string inverters might affect the payback period. Not everything that is cheap applies in a solar installation.

[@EVMANVSGAS]

There is not a lot of difference in price between a power optimizer (solar edge) and micro inverters so... Why wouldn't you just use a micro inverter that can that goes up to a higher wattage to make sure there is not clipping? Why would you run a 215 on a 260w panel, why not just run the 250 and not worry about clipping?

[@TomKacandes]

The Enphase M215 actually tops out at 225 W, so difference is actually about what you'd want in trading some clipping for stronger output on weak sun days. Why not M250: Also on very weak days, there can be lost watts to an overlarge inverter not turning on at all, but that tends to be a minor consideration. The same panel + micro combination can be right or wrong based on the larger array issues like shading and tilt orientation factor (are you at 180 south or 93 deg ESEast

[@nicolasbeltran127]

Maxim are cheaper than solar edge

[@ek9772]

EVMANVSGAS they are both different ways of approaching the same problem. There is a cost point at which micro inverters make sense. This is determined by the number of panels and the total system cost. You can, also, combine all three technologies if you have a difficult installation site. For instance, if there are no shading issue, a sting inverter might be ok. In another part of the site micro inverter might work ok where shading is involved but not too many panels are needed, and in a large part of the site where shading is an issue, optimizers will do fine. It depends on the problem that are you addressing and the circumstances for solving it.

[@stevestevie7193]

Has it really gotten that cheap already? You were listing a 11kW system for around $20,000. That's $1.82 per watt.

[@dlake145]

steve stevie He isn't referring to a 11kw system Size, rather 11,000 kwh of annual production. System Size does not equal production. He likely referring to a 6kw system Size for all 3 examples, but the variance in actual power produced depending on what type of inverter system you use.

[@andrewkrantz2152]

steve stevie was

[@ek9772]

thegoodfinder costs have dropped so much by H2 2020 that you could install a 10,000 watt PV panel system for around $10,000 if you install it yourself with quality products but not the most expensive products. For the best quality products, the same system will cost between 30% to 50% more. The cost of produced energy should be less than $0.06 per kWh with an average solar resource, and with a good solar resource it might be below $0.03 per kWh.

[@JD-ir2sb]

When that inverter trashes on the optimizer system your out possibly days for the whole system..won’t happen with micros

[@leonbalym2966]

Very hard to hear turn your mic up please!

[@johnaugsburger6192]

Thanks

[@martinbernard1250]

With power optimizer system, you need to get an optimizer larger than your panel 400 watt optimizer with a 350 watt panel. Also scale the inverter above the total of the array. 7.4kwh array with a Solaredge 7.6kwh inverter. ZERO CLIPPING!! The only loss will be during the DC to AC conversion 3-4%. Lets do the math....1 watt from the panel equals 1 watt into my grid. Its not rocket science. With the increase in inverter size in the past few years we don't need complicated design anymore!

[@ek9772]

Martin Bernard why not oversize the solar array to be bigger than the inverter?

[@artsmith103]

The talk is for bigger arrays. SolarEdge is good for bigger arrays. Micro can be better for 8-10 and less modules.

[@ek9772]

You sound happy with optimizers, but you should read the opinion of this guy who has installed thousands of them: www.mcelectrical.com.au/solaredge-inverter-optimiser-review/

[@PVVee-xo8cv]

Mike, this is you. Right??

[@MarineMikeCheck]

Yes sir