Death in June vs Current 93

[@boardsofwood]

The idea of putting on Current 93 at a party is so funny

[@Hir0-Protagonist]

"A lonely antique dealer excited to show you his wares" Probably the best description i've ever heard to describe David Tibet's vocal delivery. 🤣

[@charlielookerNYC]

Ha right? Nice Snow Crash handle btw

[@araorangepeel]

yeah I love it lol

[@lunarvision]

Or an English mouse with a knife.

[@peka__]

@@lunarvision Nice and fitting!

[@TheInundation]

DI6=Apollonian energies, C93=Dionysian energies.

[@nitro5247]

Good way of putting it. But who would be Cygnus here?

[@dandemont5838]

Thanks Fred

[@Dissolve28]

@@dandemont5838 was gonna say the same lol

[@pietandersen6120]

Hi, popping in a year later cause I’ve got a question. What the hell does this mean?

[@Dissolve28]

@@pietandersen6120 It's a reference to Friedrich Nietzche's The Birth of Tragedy. Two expressions of culture related to a left and right brain relationship. Rational (Apollonian) vs Chaotic(Dionysian). Death in June vs Current 93. :p the perfect balance.

[@saraivatoledo1842]

" In a foreign town , in a foreign land " and " I have a special plan for this world " are some of the greatest Party music recordings I can think of .

[@saraivatoledo1842]

@@ulehlud9027 Faust is incredible ... you slowly get into Tangerine Dream ( Kraftwerk had always been there in one shape or another so ... no need to expand , I think ) , some Ash Ra temple ... Can and NEU! might follow next ... 1 year later and you´re irreversibly messed up in the head to one extent or another by a bunch of pretty adventurous and sexy German lads 😂 .

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

Fields of rape!

[@mattclark2119]

I collaborated with David Tibet on a book, and I love both bands, but I remember before David committed to being part of the book, he said to me, "This can have NOTHING to do with hate". Obviously it didn't, but I think the misperception of DIJ has weighed heavy on David, and made him weary of people misinterpreting these things. Think about it. Most DIJ and C93 stuff delves deeply into the lexicon of darkness.

[@goldalien2016]

If I'm not mistaken, David actually cut ties with Douglas and DIJ. If that's true, then that really shows what impact that weariness has had on him. To my knowledge, David's doing pretty good in life right now, and good for him (I've heard he was going through depression around the time of the Imperium album, which was also when he was working with DIJ), I just hope he's ok

[@nicknickson3650]

@@goldalien2016He's doing great from what I've seen. Also the most recent music C93 has put out has been, in my opinion, some of Tibet's best work. Light is Leaving Us All and If a City is Built Upon a Hill are two of my absolute favorites.

[@goldalien2016]

@@nicknickson3650 Good to hear he's doing alright! I have yet to listen to the full album for "The light is leaving us all", but I've listened to "If a city is set upon a hill", and I really enjoyed that one. My first exposure to his music was with Imperium, and only becuase it was in a Warhammer 40k video, lol, but I was amazed by the variety of music in each album. Most of Imperium sounded creepy/depressing, but then you've got If a city is set upon a hill, which has many songs that are more somber, but almost in a peaceful way. It was like an adventure of some sort, discovering more about Current 93 and their music, it felt like diving into a well of dark water, not knowing where I'd end up, and resurfacing with a pearl in my hands. In the end, I'm glad I found out about Current 93, and even just neofolk in general. It helped me through some rough times, I'll admit

[@nicknickson3650]

@@goldalien2016You should listen to The Light is Leaving Us All! That album and I Am the Last of All the Fields that Fell are very easily digestible C93 albums. Also glad you're enjoying Neofolk. I have to recommend my favorite neofolk group, The Revolutionary Army of the Infant Jesus. If you have the time I hope you can give them a listen kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHaxiY2Pnb6SrNUsi=HxcpQc_J5ugKETtE

[@pigslam]

​​@@goldalien2016really? i heard that douglas cut ties with david, not the other way around, and because david recorded that album with tiny tim in the 90s, who was i believe, homophobic, hence why doug p left.

[@alexsmart5452]

in January 84(I was 14) I bought an album based entirely on the cover; a Deathhead(inside a Triangle) that looked like it was slightly smirking. The album was in the "experimental" section of Tower Records in Fresno, CA(I also purchased the Severed Heads album "Since the Accident"). I was 14, and knew nothing about the band, I just liked the SS symbolism of the Deathead(again I was 14). It was perhaps the luckiest "this might be interesting" purchase Ive ever made. I will admit I prefer the PostPunk boarding on Goth DIJ stuff more than their Neo-Folk. On the other hand I prefer the Neo-folk of C93 over its Noise/experimental phase.

[@lewisb85]

And Sol Invictus (Tony ex Death in june) his project is like the middle ground between the two!

[@paolovallejo8022]

That guy *cannot* sing.

[@ardillarojo]

@@paolovallejo8022 That's nothing, you should hear him play piano. Oops wrong vocalist.

[@paolovallejo8022]

@@ardillarojo Mozz

[@russell_szabados]

Summarizing Death in June and Current 93's respective aesthetics, from classic songs in their back catalogues..."Power Has a Fragrance" and "Anyway, People Die".

[@gggallin8279]

Damn I’m 21 and if I would put on DIJ at a party people would think I’m either suicidal or a serial killer.. or both

[@charlielookerNYC]

Rough. Well there are definitely plenty of kids your age who are down with it. Just gotta find them and have them over

[@gggallin8279]

@@charlielookerNYC DIJ is one of my all time favorite bands and I am currently getting into current 93 (no pun intended). The problem rather is that most of my friends are punks so they probably would get very confused by Douglas P but I don’t really care i have no problem with listening to DIJ on my own :D

[@natios100]

i’m 21 and i love dij :)

[@U24B6]

Put it on at a party! 🤟🏽

[@highseervehk]

@@charlielookerNYC I'm 23 and luckily know more than enough people into this glorious music! It's a blessing

[@Caligula138]

This guy knows what's up... good work

[@hogsize2540]

dude great video, i have had this debate with myself many a time also in regards to something you mentioned, i CAN tell you that i have put on current 93 at a party before, and it MAYBE just led to all of us sitting around the tv in a stoned stupor in complete silence listening to thunder perfect mind

[@RammaSten]

My description of David TIbet's voice is that it sounds (sometimes) like a bard from a fantasy story. Like his going around a medieval town with his lute singing his songs lol That said, that description doesn't do his work justice. It's very unique and powerful. Seeing Current 93 live in a few weeks, so excited!

[@kostasstergiou3332]

Very intelligent analysis. But although Tibet is a singer, a poet, an artist and a visionary, he is not a composer. When speaking about the music of Current 93, one should at least mention the wonderful Michael Cashmore who composed most of their songs in their classic period. Others have taken up that role since then, but not Tibet. On the other hand, Douglas writes the music of Death of June. The differences between the two bands are not only due to the different personalities and ideologies of Tibet and Douglas, but also to the different approaches to music between Douglas and the composers of C93's music.

[@benrashall7195]

That book has been sitting on my shelf for a while now. Time to resume my eternal game of catch up. Really great to see someone speaking about these bands and the underlying ethos. Became utterly consumed with C93, TG, Di6, et al in the past year. Excellent work.

[@myneighbourjohnturturro]

This was a brilliant analysis - two artists that mean a lot to me.

[@shannonm.townsend1232]

David Tibet gives me an Edward Ka-spell vibe, but more urgent sounding

[@DawnwalkerUK]

Had been looking for a way into C93 for years and finally found it with A Sadness Song and Thunder Perfect Mind. I think the penny just dropped. Thanks 🙏🏻

[@chainsawteddybear]

Damn I didn’t know Squidward’s house had a channel

[@jamesshawnhart8732]

This is such a wonderful video, I have watched it several times and really enjoy your insight and thoughts on these two incredible groups. I’m surprised there aren’t more videos out there dissecting what these two groups have to offer. So similar and yet so different, both with plenty to unpack.

[@charlielookerNYC]

I’m glad people feel that I’ve done the groups justice 🙏

[@struggleagainstcowardice8642]

Wow man, you're video has been floating in my recommended vids forever. Glad I caved and clicked on it. You did a great job at articulating the profound.

[@chaunceybaker6612]

Hey Charlie, have you ever listened to Backworld? Joseph Budenholzer, the sole figure of Backworld, was associated with Tibet and other World Serpent neofolkers. Their focus is more on Christian Mysticism in the Catholic/Orthodox sense. Good stuff!

[@JensineE]

Nailed it, amazing! I wonder if even just holding onto the thought of “i won’t divert into politics” is letting you go deeper

[@charlielookerNYC]

I can't stay away :/

[@Rome_Plows]

Lol @ the thumbnail... Great video Charlie, really interesting :)

[@charlielookerNYC]

Glad you liked

[@aniketsanyal5586]

This video is excellent, and a wonderful & welcome find! Thank you for encapsulating all this! Even as I'm now, still, more in preference of David Tibet/Current 93, this video contextualized my love/appreciation for both DIJ and C93, and the possibilities of their meaning and weight in my life. Close combat with that threat of "crisis of meaning". A reinvigoration of symbols, I suppose, and their nourishing vitality. Thank you

[@charlielookerNYC]

Really glad for the positive engagement Aniket

[@aniketsanyal5586]

@@charlielookerNYC Thank you for your reply! If this somewhat 'weird' subgenre of ... postpunk-postindustrial-apocalyptic-neofolk has any "essence!" or otherwise essential qualities, I think this video held that spirit firm and intact as well. (might as well throw in 'postmodern' , maybe, to the genre tag, less so for the spirit in neofolk of course but maybe more so for the world of 1980 and beyond, the then world and cultural interior of postmodernity etc). DIJ and C93 continue on, in an ever-evolving capacity I suppose, where the 'post' of modernity is maybe more accelerated now, more 'hyper' than ever. Sorry for this wall of text! Excellent, excellent video, and thanks again for the reply sir, take care

[@charonwave]

"You don't have to pit two bad bitches against eachother" -Northernlion

[@EzekielGoldbergII]

What an amazing video. Went much further than I expected into tons of interesting directions. Thanks for the brain dump.

[@Bruin_ffs]

I can’t believe I’ve just heard someone else call douggie P “daddy” 😂. Was once on an 18hour bus ride listening to some DIJ and that exact thought went through my mind, glad I’m not the only one

[@GRIMxGREEN]

"Falling back in the fields of rape..." if one has travelled through England and noticed massive fields of rapeseed, they will know. I can see an image of someone diving backwards, carelessly into these yellow surreal sea.

[@bgggsht]

As if it only grew in England 😆

[@jcoctigan]

@@bgggshtAs if the artists being discussed are from England.

[@ironclaw79]

I remember my friend playing current 93 when my band was on tour.i kept making fun of his voice i mimmicked it singing about goblins,castles,and magic but it grew on me and when we went camping we listened to thunder perfect mind and i became a fan

[@matthewward6975]

Some interesting and well constructed thoughts/insights, two of my favorite artists since the late 80's. Cheers, well done.

[@thrashinmosh4260]

Great Video, thanks alot for this comparsion of DiJ and C93. I could have watched & listened to it for hours more. And a very positive benefits is, that i discovered your Band Seaven Teares through this and Just ordered the Power Ballads on Vinyl; amazing music and i Love the "Them Bones" Cover

[@devonbradbury2074]

Never thought that I'd be hearing of 'Daddys' and 'Bears' when it comes to these two, Douglas and David.

[@russell_szabados]

I was a Club DJ for years and got to a point in the mid-90's where I wanted to play kind of the music I liked, for the kind of people I associate with. That happened to be noise & industrial fans, and older goths (as opposed to high schoolers into Marilyn Manson at the time). The only bars or clubs that would book us were gay bars, so I got to know and befriend many gay men & women over the years. Amongst homosexual men into experimental music, most were of the "bear" type he refers to, these weren't the twee Hollywood hairdresser type you see on TV. Death in June, and especially Coil are icons for a lot of these men, and the reference you made is a big part of that. It doesn't really apply to C93, not with anyone I ever met.

[@TheMysteryMachine]

also Coil's title "Further Back and Faster" comes from the film "performance" from 1970.

[@LuridContent]

Excellent commentary. I've always felt that Tibet and Pearce were on the same path but chose very different paces and noted very different things along the way. Tibet is ephemeral and ultimately hopeful, while Pearce marches along stolidly and taking more note of where he was. I kind of get a vibe from Tibet's music that he's nearly discovering things as he goes along- almost like he's with the listeners and by no means is he in a hurry to take anyone anywhere. Pearce, on the other hand, doesn't dance about with wonder. Some pain somewhere along the way won't let him go, and he will take whomever he can down into his labyrinth. I love both but if I'm being honest, Pearce is my Pied Piper. Currently on a Nurse With Wound/Blind Cave Salamander kick, but I'll always go back to DI6 and Current93.

[@J-x4p]

I love imagining listening to Rose Clouds of Holocaust for the first time, having heard the rumor that David cut ties with Douglas after the last album, and then getting to the last track and hearing David hissing "IT'S ALL A DREAM, WAKE UP, WAKE UP" in your ears. freaky!!

[@worrydoll1644]

i ordered england’s hidden reverse on ebay yesterday!!!!! i’m so so very excited to read it.

[@78deathface]

I’ve been aware of both projects since the 90s, but am only really starting to get into them now. This was a great video, thanks man.

[@charlielookerNYC]

Thanks for watching and commenting. Enjoy the neofolk explorations

[@fogpumas]

Comus is the direct precursor to C93 to my ear. DIJ is extremely different.

[@emeraldsun72]

Absolutely. Comus and Johnny Rotten.

[@araorangepeel]

loved the comparison

[@fabianwitala1919]

So awesome. You done ur homework very well :-) And Its good that you openly spoke about this whole "scandalous" DI6 thing and explained it very well. And on top, Im a DI6 fan for years now and you made me wanna dig in deeper into Current now. Your doing it all with a fan heart but also from a realistic point of view. Thats the video I would show people to explain them the big DI6 dilemma :-) Cool guy, definetely. Its so funny, cause I gotta friend whos a Tibet and Wakeford - ultra when it comes to this, whereas Im a queer DI6-addict. We somehow know to appreciate the others music and reason to like it, we can hang out together and always end up listening and dancing to both our bands :D but we alsways keep making some snippy comments about each others musical heroes XD and this you can perfectly feel in your video as well. Cool man, definetely! Greetings from germany :-)

[@charlielookerNYC]

I love hearing all of this Fabian. Thanks for your serious engagement! Stay tuned for more...

[@jamesgwarrior1981]

Wyattximmm brought me here and that Orphic egg looks familiar but can’t place it…

[@ramon5061]

This is a conversation I would like to have with some strangers at a bar

[@rubenthekid]

DI6 is more melodic in a traditional sense, C93 is melodic in an unorthodox sense. I can compared DI6 to more post punk artists I've listened to, where as Current 93 is simply incomparable or hard to draw comparisons.

[@lynnpehrson8826]

Maybe this only applies to the albums I tried, but I found current 93 more accessible. I couldn't get into death in june. Thunder perfect mind seems pretty normal to me. I've also always like sing talking, he reminds me of lou reed. I'm also kinda into the occult.

[@aldoushuxley5953]

fantastic video! I am a normie when it comes to music, and only discovered Douglas P last week. Hope you can introduce me to more great music :)

[@hedgiewedgie95]

Interesting breakdown of thoughts and ideas on both groups. I’ve been interested in these groups since I’ve been aware of them. Out of all of the “Hidden Reverse” artists, I’ve appreciated COIL the most. They were incredible artists exploring sound in a very deep way. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on COIL. I’m not sure how you could make it into as interesting a video as this one. Anyways I appreciate the video. Very insightful.

[@charlielookerNYC]

A Coil video would be so fun! I like to mix it up genre-wise though, so I probably won’t so one. They’re a big influence on me though.

[@Dissolve28]

@@charlielookerNYC That would be super awesome! Time Machines as a full album would be very interesting to discuss too.

[@marcachancho4262]

Great video. Even though I think that lyrically and musically Tibet is superior to Douglas (especially now that Di6 has become quite repetitive) , I always find myself listening more Death In June. It is simple, yet captivating, touches on those topics that fascinate me most. Love both anyway.

[@jyberpvnk]

@12:30 I just watched Hitler: A Career (1977) on Netflix and the doc ends with the words “But what ends when the symbols shatter?”.

[@charlielookerNYC]

dark!

[@jyberpvnk]

@@charlielookerNYC Highly recommend the podcast the Perfume Nationalist's episode on Rose Clouds of Holocaust if you haven't heard it already. Theyve also covered Current 93 and have an interview with Boyd Rice.

[@charlielookerNYC]

@@jyberpvnk I've only really heard him on The Beautiful Toilet podcast, which was cool. The whole perfume thing as a premise is pretty awesome.

[@keithamandahall8548]

"Backward into fire, forward into ice".. sounds like a Boyd Rice reference maybe. 🍻

[@charlielookerNYC]

I don't love Rice's work in general, but he has really cool titles and imagery. He was actually the first noise music I ever heard.

[@monsirto]

I believe it is actually a TS Elliot reference. I may have a little inside knowledge on this one ; ]

[@Dragonkinglover]

Very interesting video. Ive been listening to C93 loosely over the last few years but never dove really deep into them or David Tibet, this helped put things in perspective. I have to recommend you some music from the swedish progg scene of the 1970s. It shares some interesting thematic similarities with C93 that i think you might appreciate. They mixed the progressive rock sound of the time with traditional swedish folk music, which creates a really unique sound. Though, they are usually not nearly as dark and menacing as C93 often is Merit Hemmingson and her albums ”Huvva! Svensk folkmusik på beat” and ”trollskog” are gems largely forgotten to time.

[@huddypop3491]

“Falling back into Fields of Rape” It was also intended to reference the flower rapeseed or rape. It wasn’t just Tiny Tim (rip) but also the royalties that supposedly World Serpent owed Boyd & Doug. I think that drew a line and broke up the family of all those bands on that label. Not even sure that Rice & Pierce are friends any longer last I heard but that was a few years ago now. Thank you for the great upload 👍

[@imnomoth]

Boyd and Doug aren't really in contact as far as I know, but Boyd posts some fairly positive Things about Di6 on social media from now to then, so I guess they still like each other.

[@charlielookerNYC]

Thanks for watching and commenting :) Good info as well.

[@russell_szabados]

Do any of you remember a band on World Serpent named Primordia? They did an album & a CD-single, then disappeared when World Serpent folded. The first time I ever spent time with my wife, even before our first "date", we walked into a record shop in Greenwich Village, NYC and they were playing Primordia, around mid-1992. I bought what turned out to be their whole catalog, and we still listen to it.

[@wheelsofmercury]

I have been getting into these two artists a lot recently and this was a great video on them! I will say that while I don't particularly AGREE with Douglas P.'s aesthetics and his ties to people who share horrible ideologies, I still love the music and the WAY it's performed MOST of the time (he did go a tad too far on the funny-mustache-man-worshipping side with Brown Book, though). Plus, he handled the split with David quite immaturely based on what I have read of it.

[@jonathancridford8754]

Great video, really enjoyed that. On David's voice, I think the closest person I can think of is Robin Williamson from the Incredible String Band - a band that I know David has cited as an influence - but his voice is very unique.

[@wigger2499]

Death In June is Chad music

[@charlielookerNYC]

It is

[@DJW1981]

I never knew or suspected! 😂

[@tenpirpa4503]

Amazing analysis. Helped to see some things through different perspective and sets of eyes.

[@GOLDENGOLD1000]

That egg & snake is on the back of TAG'S The Delivery 1985 Berlin Atonal album

[@KellyLynch-hc5mi]

Im late to the party here in terms of your video, but not in terms of c93 and dij. I have been listening to both of these outfits for well over 20 years. I recall having cassetes of Dogs Blood Rising and back in the day it scared the shit out of me! David Tibet is a master at what he does.

[@jeromealexandre4162]

I think Tibet's "Oh Im not into the second world war " speech is odd ~ particulary as his own song "Hitler as Kalki" definetely inspired by Esoteric hitlerist Savitri Devi he also wrote "One is the axis :anynonymous in glory "in "Punishment initiation" .,he told me he wasnt interested in Crowley yet had first editions of his paintings when i visited him in hastings.I think Tibet and Douglas made great music together but i think Tibet knew how to play the game ultimately and he threw Doug under the bus in order to win "Politically correct " vibes. i do like Current 93 particularly the years he worked with Rose and Doug and Freya .But with Death in June the music is on a higher plane.Thank you for having the guts to address these groups many wouldnt!.

[@charlielookerNYC]

Interesting perspectives on Tibet. I guess I hope that's not true, him selling out DP for PC reasons. I just imagined that he sincerely changed his vibes over the years toward a more humanist orientation which happens to be more widely socially accepted. But yeah, maybe it's more cynical, I don't know

[@jeromealexandre4162]

I also fell out with Tibet , it most likely didn’t help when he invited me to stay at his house that weekend and his then wife said that I looked like an ex of hers . From then on he was quite rude . I remember when he’d heard about me playing with Boyd Rice ( Another Tibet turned against ) and said he wanted nothing to do with anybody who were friends with him , or Doug . I’m also about to start writing a record with Rose and I guess he’ll not like that much ..but tough ! Haha

[@ayan5416]

@@jeromealexandre4162 Does he and Rose are not in good terms?

[@charlielookerNYC]

@Biarki J*ws I assume?

[@podfuk]

@@charlielookerNYCI always thought All pigs must die is anti David Tibet album, and maybe other people DP thinks betrayed him in the past, could be wrong of course.

[@noname-qk8oy]

Loved this video you have an amazing way of speaking

[@bomb-de-dyl]

Really enjoyed this video. Though one thing I think you missed out on is how each artist talks about relationships. So many Di6 songs are break up songs, Runes and Men, and the whole album Rule of Thirds seem to talk about loneliness and unsatisfaction and I think C93 often talks about love in a similar light with stuff like Gothic Love Song I’m much more familiar with Di6 but imo there’s so much homoeroticism in his music. Makes me laugh that a lot of these NS guys probably don’t pick up on that side of it too much

[@Rizimar]

Exactly!

[@monsirto]

Agreed. For me, "the Cat is Dead" or (coincidentally) "A Song for Douglas When He is Dead"

[@DJW1981]

Yeah Di6 certainly relates on a personal level to the absolute dumpster fire that is my love life 😂. Nah seriously it does at least get what its like to be truly lonely.

[@mrhanky5851]

Well he’s not actually NS from what I understand.

[@toweringsequoias1590]

this is a song for douglas, after he's dead

[@heikkijhautanen4576]

Douglas has a better voice imo but C93 is moore surreal and haunting.

[@joshsaco380]

Re Mercury is dancing, you could view dancing as an act of rebellion, so maybe Douglas is acting in spite of himself, seems like a request to return to his origin and be honest. I'm throwing that out, not thought it through. Enjoyed the video. Ta

[@joshsaco380]

Yeah, I def think it's request. While his soul exists, there is hope and it Rejects his bullshit.

[@keithamandahall8548]

I love both bands, two favorites.. but there is no contest.. Current 93 is the best band on the planet right now. And it'll stay that way I'm sure, unless Nick Cave puts Grinderman back together. lol. Nice video. 🍻

[@monsirto]

5 Stars for the Grinderman props!

[@xisotopex]

whats a good place to start with current 93?

[@keithamandahall8548]

@@xisotopex Swastikas For Noddy, Aleph On Hallucinatory Mountain, Earth vs. Earth, Black Ships Ate The Sky. That’s a few of their master works. 🍻

[@bathroomsexmurder]

Nick cave can fall off beachy head for all I care

[@keithamandahall8548]

@@bathroomsexmurder ok..

[@momar678]

"Fash'd out vibe" lol

[@ianwelling8114]

Current 93 is a religious experience. Death in June feels more political. .

[@charlielookerNYC]

Fully agreed

[@jeromealexandre4162]

I feel that both have that effect ( religious ).

[@DJW1981]

Di6 for me was always a spiritual thing. Paganism, Runes, Reincarnation, Magic etc etc...but I think we read into it whatever works on a personal level, so what you and I see might differ, but neither is wrong, you know?

[@shannonm.townsend1232]

I never thought I'd hear analysis of my records; interesting video

[@Alabaster2ten]

I'll listen to this talk later, but it struck me as beautiful therapy in poetic lyrical waves. Does Bonehead or Boyd Rice bore you more?

[@xisotopex]

I like your observation about "capitalism" and "modernity" being probably the same thing. maybe someday it could serve as a common ground

[@fabiopatane9160]

My compliments for such an insight into two very evasive and complex artistic paths. However, I must point out that you seem to overlook DIJ's esoteric, spiritual and symbolic elements, enphasising on the contrary the military imaginery per se, and not as methafors or symbols. And I think this is a mistake.

[@paulcarter1347]

Is swaztikas for noddy an Enid Blyton reference?

[@momar678]

Does anyone know the C93 song where he is talking about the women fortune telling with a thread wrapped around pegs in the ground

[@shannonm.townsend1232]

Does Michael Gira have a 'daddy' voice?

[@Thazo79]

DIJ doing Magnetic Fields... YES PLEASE!

[@agemoworos7953]

excellent analysis, thanks for this video

[@138abob]

I realize that this is an older video, but it's still cool to come across a content creator talking about these bands. I agree with what you were saying about the difference between both bands and the reactions that you get when you put them on at a party haha! I really adore both these bands but I rarely come across others who are familiar with them. What do you feel about Swans? The Swans newest album is really good, but I haven't come across anyone that I can really talk to about it (These days I'm living in a very small mountain town). Im always a little afraid to listen to new music by these bands (that I love) especially after they haven't released anything for quite some time. It can either be incredible or incredibly disappointing. It's also interesting that you mentioned Coil too. Recently I've been having a Coil revival, Coil and Einstürzende Neubauten.The cover of Soft Cells version of Tainted Love is so haunting on multiple levels. The video really makes it. I've always really loved Throbbing Gristle too, but I just really like the direction that Coil went in. There's a handful of wonderful bands that dwell under that umbrella, that unfortunately go unnoticed by these younger generations. That vein of occultism is almost wholly ignored at least in my experience. It's very sad. TOPY is an interesting subject unto itself. I'm definitely going to check out your channel. If you haven't checked out King Dude yet than I highly recommend him, especially his record Full Virgo Moon. King Dude is varied in style (in a good way), but I definitely hear influences of these bands in his work, especially Death June.

[@stevencooper3202]

Tibet is heavily into the theological concept of Patripassianism. Which is a form of theological modalism, the belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different modes of God

[@erikreedy9397]

Great video & terrific observations. My opinion on these two men are Douglas P knows exactly who he himself is. Tibet is still searching…..

[@Tharsismusic]

I would love to hear your musings on coil.

[@charlielookerNYC]

Coil is so insanely deep to me

[@theindoorleague]

‘Fields of rape’ might be more innocent , over here ( U.K.) we have a crop called Oil Seed Rape - that makes fields bright yellow in late spring

[@natios100]

you should make a video about coil too!!! great video, cant wait to watch the xiu xiu one also any reason you’re omitting doug’s surname?

[@rainbowdeathblow]

Such a great topic. Thank you

[@lebulle4544]

Very cool. I enjoyed this.

[@prokesuk]

I thought Pierce and Tibet split mostly because of the World Serpent debacle. Just business.

[@drinkinouttacups2665]

And the letters Dave wrote to other artists

[@jeromealexandre4162]

Also I think Doug's main gripe was more about Tibet writing a list to those on World serpent recordings to get them to turn on Douglas and accuse him of all ,kinds of stuff.Also Boyd was friends with Tiny Tim and that didnt seem to bother him.

[@richardm123uk]

Thank you for your take on both bands. I picked up 'Swastikas for Noddy' as a young teen in 1988 and later living in London from 1992-2007 I saw DIJ and C93 live many times (including festivals/gigs around Europe). Last time I saw C93 was in Glasgow, October 2004 (Jandek played his first gig during that weekend). I've not followed either band since around that time, but both did interesting stuff. Although I'm not interested into getting into the DIJ politics argument, there were always a lot of utter w**ker fascists at DIJ gigs (as well as a lot of lovely people). Cheers again for your dive.

[@davidgalan9921]

On my god!!!!........Marry me!!!!!!! Please marry me!!!!! You have captured both these bands in words the way I carry them in my head! You have an amazing way of getting down to the grit of each band and it makes my heart so happy to find someone so intrigued and invested in them! Proud to meet you!!! So much symbolism.....yes......exposing capitalism......materialism.....capitalism has overpowered spiritualism....it's kinda sad. I love how David Tibet vocalizes like a sermon preacher and Douglas P vocalizes like a melodic structured song master. I loved your video on this comparison of these two bands! You spoke things I loved so much about each but couldn't find the right words to express properly myself! Brilliant video and explanation!!! You are my new best friend diving so deep into these bands and showing similarities and deep comparison. So happy to see someone else get the deep and complex messages of these two amazing bands!

[@charlielookerNYC]

It brings me great joy to hear this level of enthusiasm! Thank you

[@Raznab]

Pretty sure the ranting and raving vocals in "Falling Back in Fields of Rape" are done by Steve Ignorant, not David Tibet.

[@charlielookerNYC]

Yeah I didn't know that at the time I made this. Good to know!

[@marcuskane3579]

I love the female voice sung version of sadness song the most. The melody is so cold and embodies actual sadness. With the lyrics it has a very chilling, grief filled vibe. One of the deepest c93 lyrics, though it may be out of context and just a fragment, to me was from the album black ships: "...and I do believe what I don't believe!". It's interesting that d Moore was gay. It seems contrary to his seemingly trad values. As always, great podcast! Cheers 🍻

[@talismanic71]

Rose McDowall she is lovely!

[@andreasfranzgass8525]

I'm a bit in a nationalsocial mood. I put on some Death in June right now.

[@buddhabillybob]

Fantastic analysis of two of my favorite bands. I don't know if Douglas P. has taken the plunge into fascism. I truly hope he as not; I say that not from left-wing pearl clutching but from the observation that fascism is a purely MODERN phenomenon. You get right down to core of the issue when you state that both DiJ and C93 are obsessed with the crisis of meaning and the possibility of living a human life connected to a symbolic/spiritual world.

[@charlielookerNYC]

That is a really great point, that fascism is modern. Trying desperately to RETVRN but you up exterminating millions using technology (not exactly the governance of ye Wise Kings of olde).

[@buddhabillybob]

@@charlielookerNYC Too true. I guess that's why Heidegger wrote "Question Concerning Technology." Thanks again for the excellent vids that take a deep dive.

[@charlielookerNYC]

@@buddhabillybob I've scratched the surface with that text but haven't really dug in. Probably more relevant than ever

[@buddhabillybob]

@@charlielookerNYC Too many people dismiss Heidegger because he was politically foolish and, at times, a crappy person. The prophets who speak most powerfully aren't always the best of people.

[@dannycheesums]

Hey man, I really enjoyed this video. I’m only just getting into Current 93, having listened a lot to Black Ships Ate the Sky; I’ve only listened to Heaven Street by Death in June. Can you maybe recommend where I should go next? Obviously they both have pretty vast and unwieldy discographies. Cheers

[@jeromealexandre4162]

“What ends when the symbols shatter “ , “ Brown Book “ and “ NADA”.

[@fogpumas]

Tiny Tim is anything but a novelty singer. If you can’t see his influence in C93, you’re not listening very well.

[@edwardbrunsden6991]

Great video!

[@Irk828]

Just found out about Douglas’s tape… wtf

[@ForáneoAmable]

Iconic

[@Microdisney]

I think of falling back into a crop of rapeseed.

[@albertohernandezserradilla3348]

Your video is fun, but misses lots of actual really important points. First, if only people could really stop talking about Neofolk and being talking about Apocalyptic Folk (or simply Dark Folk) as it was known in the 90`s, that definitely would help to put both bands in a more appropriate place (Neofolk was dubbed and established for Neo Folkish Pagan bands singing in German like Forseti or Orplid). Even though you nail it regarding Tibet's obsession with God and his Gnostic views, you totally miss out Douglas P's spiritual sense. Douglas has always been fascinated by the romanticism and the mystical image of the ultimate masculine warrior / soldier, behind the figures of Mishima & Ernst Roehm. And yes, Pearce's spiritual and ethical values are predominantly Eurocentric, but not Nazis. In any case, you'll discover both of them in their own words, if you put a little bit more attention to Douglas' lyrics, where he is constantly and openly so homosexual or "queer". And appreciate them for what they truly are. In terms of the occult, you're referring to a quite limited period set of time when they were squatting and taking acid at Freya Aswynn's place (1985-1988). As far as I'm concerned, Tibet is not a musician whereas Pearce is. And DI6 established the formal musical aesthetics of the genre (acoustic guitar, trumpet, war / military drum like kettle snare drum timpani, drum machines and synths). And Tibet used it as Douglas composed most of the music for "Swastikas For Noddy", until he was replaced by the maginificent Michael Cashmore. And even though C93 first recorded are great outputs of excellent Esoteric Noise Apocalyptic Ambient Post Industrial, Tibet would be nowhere if it wouldn't be for Pearce and most of all Michael Cashmore. They shared an important period of time of 11/12 years when they both tried to make a living as musicians. And yes, Douglas cut the relationship with Tibet when Tibet began to lose it and became openly newborn Christian and asked to be called "David Michael", for aligning & being friends with Tiny Tim who was openly homophobic. But since then Douglas Pearce has cut ties with so many people (Tibet, Albin Julius, even Boyd Rice) that sometimes it makes you wonder whether who the really difficult one is. And, in conclusion, it is very fun to see how both artists so openly anti post modern have been milking the cow and cashing out on constantly repressing limited edition records so difficult to obtain and distribute more than 20 years ago for the past 20 years. Tibet's latest records are so bland and so poppy I do no longer care about him anymore. And Pearce has not done a good record since "Take Care & Control" (and don't get me started on "All Pigs Must Die"). Both bands (and the whole World Serpent Distribution bands) have been very important in my musical and spiritual upbringing. Which is the reason why it still makes me laugh about people whining about Death In June being Nazi or not. There is no versus here. Just complimentary sides of the complex Esoteric Post Industrial output to enoy and to appreciate for what they are.

[@diggervonzipper7755]

Absolutely spot on. The egos got pretty big pretty quick. Money became an issue. Alison and David (WSD) seemed to be constantly dealing with this or that lawsuit. But, ultimately, none of it matters as all of these folks had some bit of influence in my life and their work somehow made the world a bit better for me.

[@emeraldsun72]

Falling back in fields of rape. While I’m sure it was intended to be taken in the dark way it comes off. Rape is a flower common in Europe. So fields of rape is naturally a beautiful and romantic image. Beauty/Darkness Good/Evil the eternal play.

[@yoelwasserman6066]

Break the black ice.

[@corticallarvae]

Coil is the godhead