Why HBO's Next Move Is Critical

[@quantran378]

HBO is consistently delivering top-notch tv shows, shout out to their production.

[@jbranche8024]

HBO was continually trying to provide it's customers quality, entertaining shows and was changing as times changed to meet their customers interests.

[@subhpatel2137]

just gotta forget the GOT ending.

[@cloud5772]

Unlike Netflix

[@looseygoosey1349]

@@subhpatel2137 they are wiping their mistake with the new GOT show

[@emx4439]

But hate the ridiculous region blocking

[@Re_RAM]

Clearly HBO's not the problem, it's all the corporate stunts at parent company level that keeps getting in the way.

[@pagetwentyone]

HBO should be an independent company, with a single streaming platform

[@js7dragon]

agreed, but they don't make enough money to keep up with technological advancements to compete. They need mergers for capital.

[@zxcytdfxy256]

dumb af

[@ninadganore]

gonna be too expensive to convince people to buy the subscription.

[@dimsulst]

this video is literally about why they cant do that... it doesn't matter tho, as long as their content can be watched cause they are the best

[@peterparker2981]

HBO is becoming these new owners cash cow. Any media magnate would be happy to have them. Very attractive prospect for their budget books yet always ending up in wrong hands..

[@NightOwlTX]

Changing HBOMax to Max was definitely a step back

[@joshuacoldwater]

Max (formerly HBO Max) isn’t owned by HBO is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery because when HBO owned it, they were losing $6 billion a year. That is absolutely absurd. Warner Bros is attempting to SAVE HBO because they are actively gushing money. The new Harry Potter show is owned by Warner Bros and will only be on MAX, They just purchased the rights to LOTR so they will all be on MAX, all Warner Bros/Universal/Illumination films will be on MAX. They also are providing TV content from the channels that THEY own like Discovery, TLC, Food Network, Animal Planet, HGTV, and The History Channel. So no a name change to MAX is not a step back, a step back is paying an absurd amount like $425 million for a TV show (Friends) and then not being able to use it. HBO may be good at making their own shows, and i give credit where credit is due. However when it comes to managing a network or a streaming service they are trash.

[@hieubuimanh9521]

IKR. Why drop HBO? HBO Max is good because it have HBO in its name.

[@nickperkins8477]

@@joshuacoldwater Warner Brothers has had an ownership stake in The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings franchise for a fairly long time. It’s not a new purchase for them.

[@TheMediaMutants]

Right

[@peterparker2981]

Im disappointed Cinemax has come down to this from where it once was. Night life wasnt the same.

[@Macxermillio]

HBO is just the best. When I see that logo at the beginning of a show, I just know it's going to be something different and good

[@vijaz5559]

@@Gittana-ip2ms a good show is annoying to you? lmao go watch marvel disney plus trash

[@crystanubis]

I think it's a mistake to drop HBO from the name, especially considering Max is probably going to make more people think of Cinemax. It's just haphazard rebranding.

[@jtgd]

Yeah, seriously. Everyone knows HBO. It’s a brand name. Changing it to “Max” isn’t going to continue brand name notoriety. People are either going to learn the name, or have to keep searching for “Max” as “HBO”

[@minyaksayur]

yes, they will see it when their subscription collapse because people don't know Max and don't want to subscribe to it.

[@darianharris6569]

Yeha the people running the co lady now are round and cleary don’t know what they are doing. Accoring to the entertainment trades they took HBO off the name because they they blamed it for low kid/family subscriptions who associate HBO with adult content. Warner Discovery said they want the stem song service to be known as a family friendly/kids content subscription even though all of HBO content will still be on there.

[@Allen-L-Canada]

They should've called it "HBO Discovery"

[@FireEverLiving]

Part of why they renamed it is that they want to put a lot of junk onto it without tainting the HBO brand.

[@freeinghumanitynow]

HBO delivers artisanal content. What sets them apart from the so-called competition is their refusal to underestimate the viewer's intelligence. HBO is not tv; it is its own thing altogether and I would argue that the entertainment industry is (CREATIVELY) all the better for it. Changing the name would not be wise.

[@palocymasaio]

"so-called competition" bruh its just a production company, no need to go full english teacher

[@justinwarner1183]

They are renaming because they want customers to know that they don't just stream HBO but the have DC, Cartoon Network, Looney Tunes etc. Personally they should have gone with WB+.

[@got2bjosh]

Justice for Oz which really got people talking about HBO as the place to see some crazy tv. That daring show paved the way for HBO's mainstream hits that followed. Max sounds so generic and cheap. HBO is a distinctive, established brand known for delivering high quality, Emmy-winning content created by the best producers, writers, directors, actors, and artisans in the business. The reason HBO has survived multiple mergers and acquisitions is because it is treated as the jewel in the crown and is not to be messed with.

[@Sl1mch1ckens]

Oz is my fav show so i have massive bias but its always shocked me when people talk about how great hbo are and that they love their tv shows ect and talk about the wire or something for half hour that then 90% they have never watched or heard of OZ.

[@samuelrodgers2742]

If Warner Bros Discovery was so concerned about having the HBO name tarnished, they could have just kept HBO Max and Discovery+ as separate services so that The White Lotus and The Last of Us is not mixed in with Discovery’s slop. Good HBO shows have been cancelled because of this merger when they didn’t need to be if the merger didn’t happen.

[@illuvattar]

I disagree. HBO Max als has 'Max' shows, which were not produced by HBO, thus tarnishing the HBO name. Reorganizing their streaming service under the name MAX makes perfect sens. HBO is kept out of the name, and remains as a separate tile within their streaming service, just like MAX shows, DC and the Discovery crap. This way each has their own separate brand and HBO can keep delivering their quality. This puts WBD in a better position to compete with Netflix, which also has every type of thing under one umbrella, their just lacking the quality prestige type shows that HBO has.

[@peterparker2981]

Now we see why House of the Dragon season 2 was stopped. HBO cant hide anymore.

[@chrisaycock5965]

People know who HBO is I don't know why you would drop the name. You automatically associate HBO with higher quality programming.

[@ocuyo6044]

You associate higher quality with HBO because it has provided higher quality in the past, but when it puts its name on a trashy reality show or a sitcom, that association will eventually be gone and the brand will be diluted.

[@luislara9297]

@@ocuyo6044 In the past ?, WTF with you man... Succession Chernobyl etc etc...

[@BenLA5]

You automatically associate Discovery with obviously fake CGI mermaids and made up sharks that the producers confidently believe will trick their braindead audience. Faux "News" became more popular AFTER commies like Pucker Carlson said he was part of a propaganda network. Discovery quickly started doing the same thing after they realized their viewers were ALL CONservative zombies

[@rudalsxv]

@@luislara9297 Ocuyo probably has issues with all the “woke” themes HBO shows tend to depict like LGBT characters and other liberal lifestyle, ignore him.

[@tymac9127]

I mean they didn't drop the name it's still called HBO 💀

[@etc115]

Richard Pleper seems like that kind of person you'd be lucky to work with and learn from. Lucky those who were able to be a part of it.

[@sactownism]

HBO MAX is by far my favorite streaming platform

[@musak.4068]

HBO Max should've maintained it's name for branding. The hub section was more than enough. You could select HBO Original. DC. Ghibli. Etc. They should've added Discovery as another Hub.

[@TheMediaMutants]

I agree

[@iambrian769]

An HBO intro has always been therapy so to speak because, as you heard that intro you would automatically be relaxed and knew you were going to watch something good. Its Not TV, Its Max...hmmm. Nope. Since we are paying, give us the name, HBO.

[@Cyrus992]

HBO was the channel I could not watch until I was 13

[@GeliCarlosJ]

So essentially HBO manages to still be great even with their parent company being historically terrible & confusing. 😂

[@natenbox64]

That's the American economy, for ya.

[@marconerodr]

At the end of the day, HBO shouldn't be passed around by buyers, but actually be its own company. Too bad that would actually hurt the shows' budget... It's sad that everything is all about money

[@hwaynes]

in the 70s, before names started using initials, HBO was Home Box Office and was great having movies to watch at any time.

[@ShadowMelt]

I hope HBO finds a good home, a lot of my best shows are HBO

[@xSmiles217x]

I think they are going the Netflix route. The volume route. Tons of shows and movies all jumbled together. It’s difficult to find a high quality show. We need to go thru a jungle of content from low quality to incredible. Using HBO MAX I can usually take a chance in a show like Barry, the description didn’t appeal to me but it turned out to be amazing. Good luck HBO 😅

[@Native722]

HBOMax is getting better, hopefully they speed things up in adding more movies/shows

[@KeturaSaint-Fleurose]

That made me think of what Netflix does. What I like about HBO Max is that they choose quality>quantity

[@dwaynedwibbley6238]

How is it getting better? The app on both phone and smart tv is garbage. They have removed a ton of content, canceled movies fully made and the bugs are some of the craziest I have ever seen. If you look at the reviews for the app it’s at 3.1 and has been since it came out. Just found this the other day on my tv and I know they aren’t the only ones but if you go into settings you have to turn off don’t sell my info. They charge you a hefty fee monthly then turn around and make extra money off you as well.

[@thepearlswirl]

don’t remind me I gotta start the new season of succession immediately. that show is f i r e.

[@halo2bounceguy]

Hurry before someone spoils it. Seriously delete the comment so people can't ruin it for you

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

I am retired and invested in AT&T because they paid such a high dividend. That's why I wasn't overly concerned by the fall in the stock price. But after AT&T spun off Warner Media, they cut their dividend in half. That's OK, I thought. Hopefully, cutting the dividend will help the stock price recover. But as of this morning, my shares of AT&T are down 27%, while the Warners Brothers Discovery (WBD) shares I received as part of the merger are down 56%. I am nothing if not an investing genius. But since I am at least still getting an AT&T dividend (WBD doesn't pay one at all), I'm holding on to the shares in hopes they recover some of their lost value. As I see it, after scrapping the Batgirl movie I was looking forward to, that's the least WBD can do for me.

[@palocymasaio]

wooow your parents must be soo proud

[@PaulMisner]

Surprised that Oz wasn't mentioned. The first drama on HBO.

[@darkwoodmovies]

HBO makes some of the best content just ever made in entertainment. But whatever Warner is doing... everything from managing their subsidiaries to DC Comics and just general movie production messes like Matrix 4, the company is absolutely mismanaged.

[@robert7567]

Why is OZ constantly overlooked when original programming on HBO is discussed?

[@beckigreen]

Agree.also Six Feet Under.

[@robert7567]

@@beckigreen yes! This too!

[@guti6832]

If we’re being honest the only thing HBO lacks is probably a giant sci fi show that competes with Star Wars or Star Trek the only thing I can see is if they go all in on the Dune franchise Crazy when you look at their ENTIRE discography there’s no one who comes close to even competing with HBO

[@TheMediaMutants]

so true, their reputation proceeds them

[@joryboyfpf408]

They shouldn't have canceled Westworld & Raised By Wolves

[@nickperkins8477]

Newcomers might think of HBO for exceptional TV series’. Being a fan of HBO since the 80’s, they were showing, for instance, all of the original Star Wars films.

[@AmeZidi_]

Why aren't they mentioning OZ the tv show on HBO which was/is legendary!!? That show helped establish HBO into what it was to become. One of the best tv shows ever made!

[@YourBoyRob]

3:26 "Spearheaded" is a term GPT uses, a LOT. I have 95% certainty this is co-written by Ai.

[@kilimanjaro1893]

I always see HBO as the Apple of entertainment industry. I think HBO is better bought by Apple.

[@theguy8412]

No thanks, Apple will destroy its independent mindset

[@abhikoolblue]

HBO is now inseparable to WarnerBros, and Apple buying WBD would be like repeating same mistake of AoL and AT&T mergers.

[@KesslerK90]

@@abhikoolblue Apple has deeper pockets than both AoL and AT&T. The net worth for AT&T $126.26B while Apple's net worth is $2.6T.

[@dhruv9744]

@@abhikoolblue Apple has their own entertainment division and streaming service now, they are already a player in the content market, acquiring WB would be a big boost to them. However the BTS rumors seem to be that Universal is in talks to acquire WB, while Apple is actually considering Disney as a possible choice for acquisition. It would consolidate the market to the Universal-WB streaming service (whatever its called), the Apple-Disney streaming service (whatever its called), Netflix, Amazon Prime video and Paramount+ as the biggest streamers, with Hulu and discovery+ just behind them, and Sony as the only entertainment company without a streaming service, who just licenses content to different services.

[@dannnyyang]

@@KesslerK90 apple rarely acquires companies. the biggest apple acquisition was Beats which was only THREE billion.

[@marc8750]

HBO Max was a mistake. WBD has brands (DC, Harry Potter, etc.) they are relying on outside of HBO. Love HBO’s content, but the rollout and naming of HBO Max was confusing.

[@jtgd]

2020 was a holy year for streaming services

[@PM2024-]

I’d take HBO over any other streaming service 📺

[@marsspacex6065]

That era of band of brothers 😮. It was worth it just to get that series.

[@TheMediaMutants]

amazing series

[@c87kim]

I was so confused when hbo Max came out cause I had Go and didn’t know wtf was going on

[@kbram7363]

HBO is bullet proof. i need Dune 2 asap. HBO should not be dropped from the name. that’s simply idiotic. Apple needs to write the check for HBO. perfect fit

[@alazkaalazka6087]

Highkey would be perfect.

[@LDLCGO]

I canceled when they started making original content like Westworld unavailable. Who was the genius behind that move?

[@raxjax8787]

HBO has remain top tier streaming service with its content and how they keep updating their content, and the quality of their content is also great. They have great selection of movies and tv shows on their service. By far making Netflix look like dog sh*t with their price jump and removal of account sharing, and no wonder why they plummet down to hell.

[@January.]

*remained a *plummeted

[@mkhanman12345]

@@January. hbo piff

[@January.]

@@mkhanman12345 輪羅野菜間話藁輪

[@jtgd]

I’m fine with hbo. Discovery isn’t impressive

[@yuriydee]

Just when pandemic ended and HBO Max had ton of content I was recommending it to everyone I know. The content was much quality than Netflix and cant even compare the other services. Now with Zaslav taking over it feels like Max has been gutted. I understand the name switch but imo they should have kept the services separate.

[@omegaman1409]

I remember back in the early 80s before Blockbuster stole its thunder the whole family used to gather around the tv to watch great movies. I remember watching Star Wars and The Road Warrior on HBO. Also the intro music score was a treat. Timeless.

[@arslanmalik151]

They even removing there own shows they made for tax write off .

[@ingogotico1398]

I hope HBO is not becoming another Netflix, where 90 % is rubbish 😮

[@JoseMorales-lw5nt]

For those curious, the Dolan family was responsible for wiring NYC with the earliest cable service. Cablevision had offices here, and as a child of the 80's, my Bronx childhood was enriched by entertainment from HBO. With that in mind, I just wanted to acknowledge 2 pieces of entertainment that this video essay sadly omitted. 1) Fraggle Rock. During the mid to late 80's, HBO became the first Jim Henson project created exclusively for pay cable TV. This early attempt at broadening original content did pave the way for outlets like HBO Kids and other specific theme channels. 2) Tales From The Crypt. Literally bridging the gap from its halcyon days to award-winning seasons of original programming and special event features, TFTC benefited from having the Time Warner merger bring in funds from WB to produce this love letter to EC Comics. Also having showrunners like Joel Silver, Richard Donner, and Robert Zemeckis meant top tier talent and uncut horror stories could unfold to an increasing national audience. Funny enough, when TFTC started back in 1989, 1-900 hotlines were utilized to get viewers to participate in contests and encourage word-of-mouth campaigns to draw more viewers and increase subscriptions. By the time the series ended in mid 1996, HBO was drawing in a new generation of viewers with its own website. ❤

[@eddieloius4592]

all of the comedy specials (Michael Fuchs) Comic Relief

[@introvertsrock9843]

WB disaster decisions like shelving Batgirl & releasing Flash Or replacing Depp *** signs they're not listening to the fans

[@ikeslo]

We need HBO by itself. This merger will not stand time. I can't believe they will put all the trash from Discovery on the same platform. Now I understand why HBO wanted to save its name by renaming this new platform MAX.

[@shafikah3340]

No. They cannot. Where do you think HBO contents come from? It's mostly from WB.

[@mc-ge2bt]

I'm still stunned they drop one of the most known brand names in American media. HBO means premium cable tv and to lose that makes no sense. And to keep Max which is short for Skinomax is even more bizarre.

[@luisguilhermeoliveira5794]

The question is: How long would HBO keep meaning that once all this other content were mixed with it? I still think they could have done better than MAX, but it makes sense to protect the name HBO.

[@tymac9127]

They didn't drop the HBO name it's still called HBO they just changed their streaming service name

[@mc-ge2bt]

@@tymac9127 That's what I meant. i think the HBO name carries huge weight in TV and** streaming. HBO isn't new to streaming... just wider expanded streaming service they currently have and to not use the HBO name is a weird misstep.

[@mc-ge2bt]

@@luisguilhermeoliveira5794 Than leave HBO GO and create TW streaming service. One for HBO subscribers and the other for streamers. Continuing to constantly change it looks as if HBO the network is on shaky ground when its doing quite well. Its the Time Warner streaming service that is constantly struggling.

[@BuggiEU]

The thing about premium is the audience for premium content is too small for a service to be competitive against Netflix, Disney+ and Prime.

[@ADHJkvsNgsMBbTQe]

I cut the cord in the mid 2000s. It took most of the c-suite tie-wearing-chuckleheads another decade to loosen their ties, get some oxygen to their brains, and finally offer streaming directly. The present situation seems to be directed by equally clueless lack of vision.

[@BradThePitts]

Anybody old enough to remember the old brown HBO cable box? Press both channels 28 & 31, tuning wheel all they way up - PRESTO - Playboy Channel, albeit slightly scrambled. 😀

[@alextrevelian]

Man we’re old

[@A22DNAL]

Wow. To find out that I was there IN THE BEGINNING...Loved Dream On!♥

[@Nicolas-uu3jr]

whatever mergers, buys, sells, mistakes, hiccups, have happened, HBO has and IS STILL making the best🐲❤️, it's the top of the top!

[@jamesapple2]

I never liked the brand name; however, calling it Max over HBO MAX because the Discovery Channel content doesn’t have the same QC as all the HBO shows then you’ll most likely become an issue down the uphill road. In addition, HBO is known for more adult edgy content & calling it a more simple name to differentiate by basic association that family members don’t have to worry if they stumble & watch Euphoria or something like that. It’s a smart move & the rumor was true all those years ago.

[@dr.davidenglish778]

Some really bad decisions have been made in the past with regard to HBO. It will be interesting to see what the next merger has in store for the premium provider.

[@Chronoir3]

Hello fellow *pirates* giving the middle finger to corporate america

[@hankhillsnrrwurethra]

5:06 Y2K stylin'! Way to go mom, rock that neon!

[@EJAYTheBHB]

13:22 - I was working at AT&T when this was happening. The pushback with this was a worry that every entertainment entity would want streaming services of their own (sounds familiar?). This would make consumers pay in the long run being the belief.

[@eduardomendes5220]

Mark my words, THE MOUSE will be buying WB within a decade or less. The Discover CEO has no clue what to do with WB, the greatest analogy I heard was that is with a guy driving an automatic BMW, and suddenly you are giving a MANUAL SHIFT muscle car.

[@BuggiEU]

Won't happen after they've already bought 20th Century. Even if they tried regulators won't allow it. And the said thing is they considered it before buying Fox, but Warner was already in exclusive negotiations with AT&T. Disney+ combined with HBO and WB would have been amazing.

[@TheJ1s]

Still don't like them calling it straight Max, maybe HBO world or just Warner because Max is reminds us of Cinemax a sister network of HBO. A lot of bad decisions during the pandemic that lead a bunch of billion dollar companies to fold and sell off.

[@ten1225]

HBO should have stuck with original content and movies!

[@chiraggupta2645]

Absolutely loved house of the dragon

[@iunderstanphotography2780]

watched all of this happen in my lifetime. from my friend having HBO ny blurry antenna in 80s to Max steaming

[@Govindaclass]

Interesting piece on hbo but the narration was way too fast and felt mechanical and was hard to follow!

[@BlazeMaster]

I dare you to do a similar documentary on Touhou Project and Bilibili, would love to watch that.

[@silver831cali3]

Well they weren't respectful according to Dave Chappelle

[@TinLeadHammer]

After watching this video I am not sure for which streaming service I need to subscribe to watch HBO's content if I don't have cable.

[@willpatton9529]

Evs in the military is a very good idea if they pair it with small nuclear power . The navy uses nuclear power safely

[@jaynycha1705]

HBO needs a sugar daddy to keep delivering the great content.

[@forthesnowflakes7691]

Kept waiting to hear if HBO Max has any relation to the old CineMax (Warner Bros.Discovery)...if not then this name confusion was also not mentioned.

[@passiveaggressive6175]

Why isn’t HBO available in the UK?

[@sportsMike87]

They really dropped the ball on the streaming name. Keep changing

[@TheMediaMutants]

right

[@passiveaggressive6175]

The new Warner discovery merger does not bode well for HBO

[@RRR-is5sp]

Raised by wolves was done an injustice

[@brandongovreau9218]

Comcast try your best to acquire Warner Brothers I don't care if you have to get a loan to do so with that kind of company buy out you could finally exterminate the mouse

[@jppusa5246]

Can you talk about ARM Limited

[@cireincognito]

Who works on the audio for your videos? The volume is overall too low and varies in volume.

[@Genesisfan1989]

You should do a documentary on showtime and starz/encore.

[@LilShawtyWood]

Remove one of the most iconic brand name, sounds like a good idea!😂🤦🏾‍♂️ it’s like corporate executives are beyond dumb!

[@JRay2113]

The end caught me by surprise. They’re already talking about selling off HBO?

[@residentgomez]

It all started with The Hitchhiker.

[@BradThePitts]

Interesting how many people today don't know it stands for "Home Box Office."

[@supreme5580]

How do I invest in HBO when it's not public?! They're the best ever

[@Angelstar7774]

I’m still upset about raised by wolves 😭

[@andyt3343]

Easy solution for writers - have less writers in the market. If people want to get paid at network rates back before streaming, then it will mean less shows are made overall.. the pie only gets so much bigger, but if there's more mouths to feed then the slice gets smaller.

[@AutumnLeavey]

I like the name HBO, and I disagree that adding reality tv will dilute the brand, Disney buys everything but the Disney brand is still its own thing

[@Clover_9777]

We had cable TV and I saw many good movies from HBO. Now everything is on the Internet.

[@hieubuimanh9521]

HBO mean Quality. Not always true but most of the time when you hearing something about HBO, it guarantee that you're in for a treat.

[@RudieObias]

HBO, HBO Go, HBO Now, HBO Max, and now Max. What do you think the next name will be for the service?

[@cockroachv]

Ma

[@JesusGarcia-pu7rv]

They skipped over post season 8 subscription cancelation lol.

[@bandkaih]

There's way too many streaming services at this point. The license wars is killing the bottom line of consumers. Idc what catalog you have, im not paying for peacock bruh

[@bascal133]

The fact that they are rebranding to "Max" and dropping the HBO title is unbeleivably stupid and I'm sure the marketing team is in shambles over this. HBO has a reputation at this point for excellence and quality storytelling, the name is associated with so many classics like the Sopranos. When i think "Max" I think "Office Max" lmaooo "Cinemax" what are they thinking????

[@realmindscale]

$WBD was never 38 dollars a share, at end of dec 2022 it was nine bucks

[@pedalesmexicali]

En Mexico por allá de 1995, se llamaba HBO OLE

[@arjunkharbanda]

I can see Apple or Netflix or even Amazon buying HBO in near future

[@kbram7363]

only apple would be a great fit

[@jahdai_abdiel]

Netflix is going to buy HBO? What a joke!

[@arjunkharbanda]

@@jahdai_abdiel Netflix is only streaming company which is profitable

[@theonlyjuan3074]

Buying HBO is Buying WBD

[@arjunkharbanda]

@@theonlyjuan3074 Yes, but WB has some strong IP like Harry Potter and DC comics, all they need someone like Kevin Feige to bring things back on track. They can make good quality Movies/Television especially as they are not bound by Disney's requirement to always be family friendly.

[@MubashirullahD]

Audio is too low in this video.

[@sambanerjee6796]

and yet velma came out wtf

[@travisspazz1624]

The Leftovers is the best thing HBO has done in the last 10 years!

[@diegoosorio8421]

Succession *

[@travisspazz1624]

@@diegoosorio8421 stopped after S1 🤷‍♂️

[@SyawishRehman]

Why do all of HBO's CEOs look like they have at least a few #MeToo allegations against them?

[@djpuplex]

Getting out of the money furnace that streaming has become is genius. She weapons don't use them.

[@larrycummings4589]

Will we be able to watch MLB world series on max this year, I sure hope so