CNC Basics What you need to get started

[@daverichard1909]

Excellent video. Giving people some basic option choices is needed. I see a lot of people in the forums struggling to understand the basics of machining and the tools needed. As a career machinist-45+ years- with over 35 years CNC experience, I think you have done a great service to beginners with this video. As people better understand their machine and the tooling they need, they would benefit from finding a local source for endmills and other bits. Just an observation. I agree with you on Fusion 360. I have 10+ years experience with Solidworks and I have struggled with Fusion 360. My weapon of choice is V-Carve Desktop. Kudos to you on this informative video.

[@janetizzy6741]

I have to agree, an excellent video. I also have more years of experience in machining and computer systems than I am willing to admit to. ;) I would like to add that it has been a year and a half since this video was posted and a year since the comment I am replaying to above. The Autodesk people have continued to actively develop and support Fusion 360 during this time. For hobbyist and personal use it continues to be free. I will also add the warning that "Yes, it can be a challenge" BUT It is well worth the time (and price - free) to check it out for yourself. Some people will immediately fall in love with it, others will toss it in the bit bucket. For myself, I also find it challenging to learn and use. I suggest that anyone interested just try: "free Fusion 360" in their favorite web-search tool. That should land you it the right part of the Autodesk web site.

[@whitehorses460]

i wish you were my neighbour

[@mariewallace718]

Speaking as a wet-behind-the-ears newbie to getting started I found your video very helpful. Thank you.

[@bobcatt2294]

Correct, if I may, a) The very first thing is to ask yourself, what is the primary intended use. Is it just to discover or do you have a particular projects you want to create. b) Secondly, ask yourself what format or size are typically your projects. c) The third, what medium or materials typifies your work - aluminum, wood, plastic, foam?

[@LagMasterSam]

Fusion 360 has the best UI/UX of any software I've ever seen. For the amount of power and flexibility it has, it's astonishingly easy to use (even if it's not as easy to use as simpler software).

[@John-wh7kb]

Thanks! Very clear, no bull teaching. Like this dude

[@generalawareness101]

I have known CAD for 9 years but CAM I am just learning after 7 years with a 3d printer. First obstacle I ran into was that of finding end mills that are small enough to do intricate work YET will cut deep enough. 1mm-1.5mm with LOC of 12-18mm using 1 flute, or two maximum.

[@Seemsayin]

So... what do I need, to get started with CNC? How much does this stuff cost? Can you send me the plans to your Shapeoko & cabinet? (Hehehe... I couldn't resist.) Another great video! Thanks for taking the time to make this available to us. Much appreciated.

[@alanhardman2447]

Great advice! I'll take it, and I did CNC work from 1990 to 2013. I've been retired from machining for seven (!) years already, and I still design items for manufacture on CNC equipment, mostly doing manual programming for the simpler stuff, just to keep my mind in the game. If it begins to get a little tougher, I use a CAD/CAM program, my favorite being GibbsCam that my old boss lets me use when it's available. Keep up the good work. I'll be following...

[@hansangb]

Two thumbs up for Vectric Desktop. Just WATCH the tutorials they have on their website and you'll be sold. I tried just about everything out there, including web only options. But Vectric came out on top. Great explanation for beginners!

[@bharris342]

Awesome video. I’m debating on a cnc and Have watched a ton of videos. Your video was more informative than anything I’ve seen. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

[@gramps1492]

I latched on to one of those little SainSmart CNC machines (CNC 3018) around November of 2018. I soon ran across your channel. Thanks for the vids and your sense of humor. I saw you using the Shapeoko and took you at your word when you said you wish you had gotten the XXL. Well...I got the XXL about 2 weeks ago. I'm doing some downsizing in my garage to make it fit, but I'm glad I got the big boy. Thanks for what you're doing to help us noobs. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your vids.

[@fx1c333]

So why don't you adapt/build your own machine you have most of the bits from the cnc3018 you just need longer rails?

[@Eli-tf7qq]

Im a shop helper at a machine shop trying to learn to be a machinist trying to learn every little thing about the manuals and cnc machines

[@sonarjockey4985]

To start with I'd like to say that this was a VERY informative video, with the items in question to go along with the discussion. I've watched several videos and this one gave me more information than the others. With that in mind, I would like to point out a couple of things I noticed (or was missing) about the video that I learned from my military training and experience: 1. The really big one that slapped me in the face. The amount of times you said "Um" or the like. In the first part (before the intro segment), you only said it once, and while you had some obvious pauses for thought it was very clean and professional sounding. But later, as you progress in the subject, you begin to use it more often, which "can" take away from the appearance of "you know what you are doing/talking about". I say that this is the big one because, if you watch videos from "experts" and "beginners", you will notice a lack of this in the former and a preponderance in the later. 2. When presenting the different router bits, you spend time "just holding or showing" the various bits, instead of also showing what the item in question does. I point this out only because this is (at least in my mind) a Beginners CNC kind of video, introducing you to the needed items in question, and that would potentially show people why they need it. For example, while I use a router and have several of the bits in question, the "conical" bits are a "void" in my knowledge, and it would really be nice to know/see what they do. Again, I want to re-iterate that I found this video very informative, and I only offer the above as constructive advice to hopefully make you a better teacher at what you do. If you doubt my thoughts on this matter then maybe try this, find a portion where you use "ah", "um", and other sounds, edit or re-record it and have someone you respect give you there opinion on which is better. I want to repeat, I'm only telling you this to help you be better at getting across what you obviously know. You obviously want to share your knowledge or you wouldn't be doing this, and I do hope this helps, as the information you have presented here is helping me.

[@martinwalters1954]

Thank you so much. You just made me finally decide to get into CNC. Already a CAD person, and already downloaded Fusion last week. Now I will start seeing whether or not it's the way to go for me. Although, being on a fixed income SS, being free has it's upside.

[@sylvesterkiyizi8424]

Which computer model do you use for fusion 360?

[@cliffart7398]

so I am making a sign with raised text. I started with a 1/16th endmill to carve the details around the text. Then I used a 1/4 inch endmill for the large areas (VCARVE PRO). The 11/4 inch endmill cut right over the carving the 1/167th endmill cut. oops. start over. I realized I had the tool set to raster rather than outside. WIll start over and see if this is the problem. You're right. A lot of learning and frustration. I wacthed this video before I bought my CNC and decided on the Shapeoko XXL. I watch your vids to learn. Thanks for all the great explanations.

[@DBrownCo]

Learning the software workflow from Cabide create to carbide motion was not easy to come by. Holy Moley !

[@gustos2478]

I don't think I've ever seen a video with no thumbs down. Good work here!

[@MichaelBlueMusic]

Thanks for making these, very informative and helpful!! Not sure why it looks like you haven’t made any videos in a while, but I hope you come back to it. Thanks!

[@jeffreybox5352]

This video is seriously helpful, just to ease my confusion on where to start is such a big deal. Thank you for covering the basics

[@stevef]

Hey there, great video. I just acquired a Stepcraft D840 with many attachments including the tool changer. Luckily I have a license for VCarve Pro so that is a blessing. I have watched SOOOO MANY videos and this is the first one that started with important stuff like bits and collets. I think I am about to watch everything you made.

[@charlessmith3262]

As a beginner am really amazed with the Video. Keep helping us .

[@MichaelDavidHiltner]

Just for myself! Just about to make my purchase, have a few of the toys, looking at others, but without the SO3 on hand, it sure is hard to put all of the pieces together to figure out the whole story. Series like this may not be perfect, but it sure answers many of the questions we Newbies have!!! Thanks once again for your time taken.

[@garylarson6386]

work part time in a machine shop and experience machining before jumping in, I had my own shop for 5 years and hated small busines, I love machining and now help friends with shops with fixturing and troubling jobs , new people wouldnt understand how inportant fixturing is

[@kevinw583]

Thank you, this is the best informative video I can find

[@deputydaz]

Hi. A friend and I are just about to purchase a machine and all. Done tonnes of research but would have been easier to just watch you video. Very informative. I have a few questions if you don't mind but I'll watch the rest of your vids first. Thanks for doing these!

[@louiseasmr7732]

Thank you so much for this video. I really want to get one to do nursery, baby name stuff and didn't even know where to start this helped immensely

[@ogsan1296]

Outstanding video. I was debating whether I want to get into this. Because of your great videos I am going to get into this. You are very good at explaining all this technical stuff. Thank you sir.

[@MushuMckinney]

Nice job on not being biased. Thanks for being so open and offering solid information.

[@11211lcb]

I might add, and I have not used a CNC yet, that end mill bits are significantly different than the 2 flute carbide router Bosch straight bit that you showed. I used to produce, by the thousands, small 3/8" thick plates with 2, 1/5" long, 3/8" wide plunge cut slots, in Ipe. Ipe is an iron wood almost 3 times harder than red oak. I found that I was always having to replace a straight carbide router bit after about 100 blanks with 2 slots. After switching to a HHS end mill bit I was able to cut 5~6 times as many and only having to clean the bit after that. The bit was still sharp.

[@johnbaker2966]

You cracked me up when you said that if anyone told you buying a CNC wouldn't be expensive was lying to you. Lol

[@andreww6738]

Hi there, Thanks for the info, this is true about finding the basics about CNC. There is a guy on KZbin every Saturday night that is live and you can enter into a text conversation for usually about 1-1/2 - 2 hours with guest etc that have tons of experiences with many types of CNC's (mostly hobby) and self build units that is great. I didn't want to assume I could pass on his channel here, but can share that with you if you like. Anyways your video's are great, clear and very informative for what your doing. So thanks once again. I look forward to watching more, by the way I love that Tee shirt in the nurse video, forgot to mention that at its end. Andrew

[@JoelStenberg]

This video hit the spot. Thanks so much!

[@Notjay95]

I would suggest choosing a cnc software based on how many training resources you can find. I chose fusion 360 because there are thousands of well made tutorials for every imaginable design. The company I work for uses alphacam and trying to find well made instructional videos filmed in English is next to impossible. If you are are new to cad/cam, choose any tutorial and follow every step. Even if you don’t understand it at first, you will start creating muscle memory and pretty soon you will get the hang of it

[@rogermccaslin6750]

Fusion 360 and Onshape are both free and powerful programs. The reason they may be "hard" to learn for some is because they can do so much it can be overwhelming. However, there are great tutorials embedded in each and if you work your way though they you can learn the programs.

[@patricebastien3232]

Hi, very interesting. I was planning on buying a Shapeoko XXL. I saw many of your videos and its because of you that I decided to go with Shapeoko. Thanks

[@stufftokeepyouentertained2168]

Patrice Bastien absolutely. They are great machines. Good luck and have fun with it.

[@gregbritz5295]

Patrice Bastien i

[@michaellau4050]

Fantastic video for beginners! I wish this was around when I started a few months ago!

[@spike7703]

Thanks for breaking it down. I just got the XL and the fun is about to begin. I purchased it through MatterHackers and the homing switch, (which was suppose to be included), wasn't in the package. Thankfully they have been responsive and have taken care of it. Fed Ex is suppose to deliver it Monday...

[@hanspijpers2100]

I do admit there is a learning curve to fusion 360 but oh boy what a software. I design in it, click the manufacture button do a simple material setup and chose the drilling operation and what bit I use click on the preview button whatch it perform the entire operation just like a movie . And then I just press the post buton to create the g- code . Take that to my shapeoko load the gcode straight into carbide motion and away I go I just made 12 drawers with dovetails seamless ( one of the benefits of the shapeoko to use it in front of the waste board) I van cut endgrain that way with a dovetail bit fits like a glove and last but not least as you mentioned cnc cost money so why spend all that money on software if you can get free real good software, for free hey and there are lots of good you tube tutorials on fusion thanks for all your video's mate kind regards Hans

[@robsandstrom9854]

Thinking about getting a machine and starting to use for projects. Looking for information and this was helpful. Glad I found your channel. Keep the insight flowing.

[@englishcountryliving448]

Found this super useful. Many thanks

[@brianmosse]

Great Vid from a very honest bloke, I have been using CAD software for a long time and as far as software is concerned there is no such thing as something for nothing thanks.

[@hanspijpers2100]

fusion 360 is something for nothing

[@Tj-oq2lw]

Keep up the great work. I just got into cnc .. your videos are helping a lot!

[@truth6027]

By far the best informative video out there for new beginners and also my favorite channel amongst CNC operators. Five stars!!

[@frankfrank6541]

Thank you for your time

[@PapaFavors]

Thanks for the video. You helped me with what bits do I need to start with.

[@ravenwind123]

Because of you I bought a Shapeoko XXL

[@stufftokeepyouentertained2168]

Tell your bank account I said sorry but it will be worth it.

[@chrisbirch4066]

How much?

[@ronaldwelch3168]

Thank you for a great video- I got my Shapeoko 3 XXL several days ago.

[@mcgahee35]

Thank you.... first video that really help me with understanding what I am getting into and really simplified it so I understand being that I never been around or had a Cnc machine....yes I am a newbie but I am interested very much so....keep up with your great videos

[@magnis1975]

Thank you for a very informative video that is easy to understand.

[@jasontompson3507]

Great video, one thing I would like to add is when buying tools it really depends on what you plan to make. I only have a few tools that I started with and found I use them on 90% of my projects. I use a 6mm (.236) end mill, 1/8" (.125) end mill and a 1/2" x 90 V-bit.. That's it.. I make custom signs and they keep me busy enough to generate a few hundred a month.My second thought is the machine purchase. A new beginner to the CNC world should start with a hobby style machine like whats discusses in the video because they could and will get frustrated and possibly stop and move on with another hobby. However, someone that has programmed machines or ran machines in the past may want to invest in a better machine or they might end up buying twice. I program CNC's for a living so I wanted a good machine right from the git go. I'm familiar with programming and running machines so things came naturally for me.

[@joshuaandree9007]

Excellent explanation.

[@perezwoodworks562]

Excellent video - by far the most explanatory one I have found. My Shapeoko is on its way, and I was at the point of “now what?”. Great information.

[@JudgeD-hc9vw]

Please continue sharing your advice. Great stuff i want to get into this hobby

[@frstcontact]

Ok i watched your video. I am just starting out snd have bought a 3050 CNC router. We use V Carve at work but i was thinking Vertex Cut 2D because of the price when just starting out. Our shop makes the vacuum units for Shop Saber CNC Router Tables so the V Carve is more the production type software. Like your how to videos. I dont do any of the programming but am involved with the assembly of our units. So i am learning on my own until i feel comfortable with it.

[@kevinclark8311]

Thank you for the helpful video as I wade through the CNC deep waters. Keep up the great work! Cheers

[@duber1439]

Great video, thank you Dublin Ireland 🇮🇪

[@texasRoofDoctor]

Great video ! I think that I speak for many people when I say the whole cnc router thing sounds a bit like attempting heart surgery without some basic advice on the numerous options. Thank you again

[@joeweathers4870]

Great video as has been said many times over. Thanks for all the great advice and help understanding this new realm I am diving off into. All of your videos have been a great help and I have used a lot of your ideas for developing my platform and layout for my xxl. I know it’s a lot of work because I come from a music background so all the production you have done yourself to publish these videos on your own is rather impressive. Even though it’s a lot of work I do hope you keep up the good work. Look forward to some new videos soon.

[@joshuaandree9007]

Tradesman are better at explaining things comprehensively. Great video, really helped with comprehending each style of bit and their applications.

[@williamwhite4061]

thanks for your time in making this very useful video. one common problem that I see is a huge amount of static electricity built up around the the dust boot and spindle. IS this simply a fix by bonding a ground somewhere, as static can be very detrimental to digital electronics!!!

[@curtbrooks7495]

Thanks for posting great Info

[@OGStr8UpJack]

If I made a video foe a beginner.. this would be it. Outstanding start!

[@greggbilger2756]

I'm a wood turner of almost 2 years. I have made lots of open and close segmented bowls, vases and live edge bowls as well. I also have branched out and starting making lots of different freehand routed signs. I got lots of my supplies, templates, router base, Whiteside router bits from Dave Rhoten of "Make A Wood Sign". A great bunch of people, lots of free info and I have had much success(personal not financial). But I'm intrigued by the challenge, precision and potential of a CNC machine. After looking at the Shapeoko, XCarve and Piranha by Next Wave, I thinking of going to the Shapeoko 3 XL. I figure if it is good enough for you and Winston Moy, it must be a decent , reliable machine for the hobbyist. After all of that, my question is what about monthly maintenance. If I buy this machine, should I order the Shapeoko maintenance kit thinking I will eventually need it. If I only have room in my shop for an XL, can a person do a larger project (Y axis) by splitting the project(drawing) into 2 parts. You recommend VCarve. Vetrix will let you purchase VCarve Desktop and then later buy Pro for the difference in price. What would I be missing with VCarveDesktop other than saving a few bucks. In trying to understand 2.5D and 3D, is VCarve a full 3D program allowing the X/Y/z axes to all move at once together. On last question. Have you been able to use those router bits in your CNC machine successfully that you purchased from Dave's Wood Signs (profile, SC-50,30/60 degree cutters)?? Your videos are invaluable to a newbie like myself trying to understand this new sport and all that goes with it. My head is abuzz. Thanks. I hope to hear from you. Didn't see an email address on your KZbin channel so I thought i would give this a try.

[@hanspijpers2100]

I didn't even know there was a maintenance kit, hence I don't have one and I think I don't need one and for the y-axis you can make boards as long as you want, if you have the front and back of the machine in a large enough room I use fusion 360 and that also can make boards as long as you want , toy can move it in from the front of the machine cut about 12 by 24 inches than move it 12 inches further and cut the second portion etc. etc. and one of the big advantages of the shapeoko is that you can also mill in front of the waste board for end grain cutting like through dovetails or perfect square finger joints kind regards Hans

[@thehamlinwoodshop]

Great video. I am definitely a fan of Whiteside. Their bits are high quality and made in the USA. Also Zenbot CNC has nice affordable starter machines. I wish vectric vcarve desktop (24” x 24”) was available when I started...very affordable.

[@stufftokeepyouentertained2168]

The thing I like about Whiteside is that they are a family business. Everything is hand made, and QC is great.

[@yiro6577]

thank you this is very educative

[@jiwbink]

THANK YOU FOR THE INTO &ADVICE!

[@albreit69]

Just thinking of getting into a CNC an looked at the Digital Wood Carver DWC at a woodworking show in Tampa. Its more money about 8K after I upgraded the software added a water cooled spindle that would take up to 1/2" shank bits (spindle is a 220). and it american made. It's on a stand with Vac. What I like was the 1/2" spindle option that isn't available even in the shark from what I can tell. Support sounds like its excellent. This also included the 4th axis, 24X40 and z is 5" travel. What do you think

[@Bigwingrider1800]

WELL DONE, I USE ASPIRE,V CARVE PRO, 3-D CUT AND PHOTO CARVE ALONG WITH FUSION 360 AND CAD KEY 19. I USED CAD KEY TO DRAW MY ROUTER 5'X45" WATER COOLED SPINDLE AND PUT IT TOGETHER . VERY NICE.. THEN ADDED TO THE GARAGE AND PUT A HAAS MINI MILL AND A TORMACH 770 IN...HOLLY SHIT WHERE DOES IT END. LOL

[@zekesmith752]

Great video! Perfect for new starters like me. Where have you gone!??! Keep the vids coming :D

[@frankjames4573]

Just getting into CNC... Great vid... Got an Xcarve 500... Not used it yet, saving up for a laptop, hopefully soon. Frank... UK.

[@kuei12]

Saving up for a laptop? LOL. You can get a great HP 17" on Ebay for less than $300 to do what you need.

[@whitehorses460]

hi, where did you get your machine

[@frankjames4573]

@@whitehorses460 robosavvy.com/store/inventables?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7Nj5BRCZARIsABwxDKJj6FfaekeLd8xxiOervXg5Z9YuMiYKJ3k-wmg7FZN6lRz55ZNxI7EaAvp1EALw_wcB

[@tkarlie]

Excellent video, thank you! All your video's I've watched are very informative. Still deciding on a machine and size but this may have sealed the deal on size. BTW nice enclosure for your Shapeoko.

[@communicationatoz]

Can you make up a play list for using these machines. You’re right. Just got an X carve and need all the help I can get

[@64maxpower]

Thanks for making this

[@LiloUkulele]

Thanks so much for a Great video!......Please Recommend a Machine.....I do Mother of Pearl inlay in wood. The maximin size piece of wood is 3" x 6" (75mm x 150mm). Maximum depth of cut is 1/8". I have been cutting the wood freehand with a trim router with 1/8", 1/16" and 1/32" DS bits and cutting the MoP with a jewelers saw. I am ready to move out of the Dark ages and start producing with a CNC machine

[@davevb333]

I'm on the fence if I want to do this and this video helped a ton. Thanks so much, I will be watching more of your videos to decide if I want to make the leap or not.

[@meditationswithamber]

Thank you so much for posting this video! It was EXACTLY what I needed!

[@lordsanityfree]

Can you talk about the bench work needed under the machine? How sturdy, stabile, flat does it need to be? What are some good things to build into it? What to avoid?

[@stufftokeepyouentertained2168]

My advice would be the sturdier the better. You do t want something wobbly. If you opt to use something like 2x4 framing make sure its braced. I built my cabinets with plywood and a keg jig. Easy to do and it bolts to the wall for added stability. As long as you have stability you are gtg.

[@onearmedbandituk]

excellent video. Just what us beginners needed.

[@nivasylstrongman4352]

hello sir: great video. I want to purchased a CNC router because I wanted to do one project for now. I am debating whether I should buy it and spend months & money learning how to use it. or hobbies, I am worried because I may not use the router again for awhile.

[@dealia7777]

Very helpful! I have researched enough to really get some important information in order to make some more definitive decisions. Thank you for this video. I have subscribed and will be looking for more videos from you. Thanks again!

[@hudsonriverlee]

I am a Beginner, flat out,, remove all doubt.

[@Joseph9a1]

Thank you very informative video for a newbie like me.. Thinking about getting a Stepcraft 840 V2

[@vassilikivanikiotis3814]

Great video !

[@budnixon]

I'm looking to see whats a good option to consider when it comes to a 4x8 sized machine, 4th axis option? Whats worth the trouble? Thanks for an informative vid!

[@perryl5150]

Great no nonsense series. Keep it up!

[@MH-zk3yd]

Great introduction!

[@csufjeff]

I bought the same starter kit.Cheers jeff

[@anthonybaker1856]

Thank you.

[@oscarstone8493]

Very good video, and lots of good information.

[@hansdegroot8549]

Great video for beginners. Thanks for sharing.

[@BrettBecraft]

Thank you for making this video.

[@Airedale721]

Great video! I'm interested in getting my first CNC router. That being said, although I know having one would make what I want to do very easy., I'm not sure I need one and I'm hoping you can suggest an alternative method until I can afford to jump into CNC. I want to make wooden knife scales for folding knives and I want to make them out of various exotic hard woods, e.g. Cocobolo. Now I know I can already make them for folders that use a liner lock as many of those have scales that are flat on the inside wall of the scale. The problem for me though is that many folders use locks other than a liner lock, e.g. Compression lock, back lock etc. and the scales for those have channels for the locking mechanism on the inside of the folder. So, I'm hoping you can tell me how I could create those by some other method other than a CNC router. I can send you a picture of one so that you could see exactly what I'm trying to do. Currently I have only a few tools. I have a Dremel 200, a drill press, a vise, a coping saw and a belt sander. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[@garybaglin2840]

Awesome this is exactly what I was looking for for. Thank you!

[@kevinpilgrim8035]

Good solid info. I bought an Axiom cnc and the Vectrics pro. I work out of town and come home as I can, so I do not have time to carve anything yet. I bought this for when I retire this spring maybe I can build a small business. I am watching every video and tutorial I come across so that when I do actually have time to execute a project I wont be completely lost. We'll see.

[@terryjones8360]

Yes, V-Carve Desktop is limited to 24 x 24, but is very good stuff. The newest version is 9.5.

[@raquelgilgen2538]

Hello! I'm asking for some advice. I need to cut some MDF letters with a thickness of 1/4, but my settings aren't working. What do you suggest? What settings could help me? Thank you very much.

[@autoDVOR]

Hi, you you sounds like professional . What mashine you suggesting for beginners. ( the model) Thanx.

[@michaelgonzalez8863]

If you do learn fusion 360 you can do 3D printing also with the same program.

[@steveschultz300]

Howdy. Just found your channel. VERY interesting. Wondering if you have plans for the cabinet that you have you CNC in. Thanks for the basics. I have found that getting into some of these hobbies costs more for the basics then it does for the machine.

[@thiscommentwasposted262]

You hit ot RIGHT ON! THANKS!

[@ismaelnunez4196]

Great information, thank you so much , also can you make a video on upgrading to laser please, I want to get the laser for my 3018 CNC pro . But I what to know which is the right one and if I’m able to cut as engraving ?