How to make Clear Glass PCBs

[@bigclivedotcom]

The EPROM eraser uses shortwave UV light that is almost completely blocked by ordinary glass. That's why the EPROMs have quartz windows. A blacklight style longwave UV lamp may work better. Have you tried acetone nail varnish remover to clean the residual glue off?

[@CNLohr]

bigclivedotcom Acetone causes the traces to slup off. I think it gets between the traces and the back of the PCB.

[@NicuIrimia]

+CNLohr maybe the apliedscience's evaporative method would work? It's fast so I'm thinking maybe it would not have the time to get under the copper traces.

[@CNLohr]

I really need to make more glass PCBs some time. There's so many things I want to try and new ideas so many people have had.. Right now, I'm so busy with other stuff.

[@TechNed]

I tried using an EPROM eraser to cheat making photo-resist pcb's in the 1980's - It took forever but eventually worked. The problem is that the wavelength of the UV light is wrong. It's like the difference between UV-A and UV-B.

[@CNLohr]

If you're doing regular circuit boards, the laminator (note this is a modified GBC H-220) is spectacular. You can usually get everything to stick really well in 2-3 times through. No ironing needed.

[@H5ck]

Dude this is fucking awesome, I am a mechanical engineering student but I'm learning so much about electronics manufacturing from people like you and other open-source projects. Thanks a lot!

+H5ck Well, I am a student of electrical engineering and I learnt everything from KZbin videos and Wikipedia. Thanks, school!

[@Pritolus]

Wow. This is the first KZbin user I've ever encountered who actually knows the proper use of KZbin annotations. Well done sir!

[@Christopher_Gibbons]

It's so cool the way you can see the etching happening through the glass.

[@HaLo2FrEeEk]

This is so incredibly cool! I can think of so many "just for looks" applications for this to make some really cool, and actually functional, stuff. Thank you for sharing this.

[@kriskizlyk]

Wow, this is really ambitious and a very cool idea. We have expensive Liquid Flow Meters that just use a plate of glass over some heat detecting LEDs to act as simple push buttons but yet have the circuit isolated from the externals. This...could be very handy...great job by the way!

[@roostersglass]

Your etching solution is actually etching the glass giving it a frosted look. If you use pyrex or borosilicate glass slides you will not have this problem. You will have totally clear boards! The glass you are using must be a "soft" glass which has a COE (Coefficient of Expansion) of around 130, Pyrex or Boro glass has a COE of around 30. The low COE also makes it far less susceptible to thermal shock. Clear and no cracks! Win! Also this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen!

[@ArvinDomingo]

That is absolutely amazing!.. two thumbs for you my friend because that is technology and art in one piece.. not to mention it is functional as well.

[@juliushildman]

its a relief to see a very well done instructional video on youtube! Cheers to you my brother! Greetings from germany

[@martinscopes3914]

Very good work I must say.one thing I see a lot is solder iron so big for the smallest work.And all so in a right mess .i have 7-soldering irons all different and shiny clean.one iv just bought is 12-volt and I Added a tiny micro switch so when I hold it I just press with my finger and all added a white bright Led the Led stays on all the time when I'm using this micro soldering iron.your work is good and would be easier for you to use a small soldering iron for when you re-solder some of you micro work.great video keep up the good work

[@K12Reversal]

This is a flawless process and you did it with one hand, while filming and while talking. You are my hero. :) Great video!

[@nugenki]

Wow this was the coolest thing I saw the past few months

[@MrsDavidiot]

Even though i have no clue what any of this video meant, I enjoy listening to your voice, its very instructive :P

[@badfender223]

Really cool. I wrap a paper clip around my soldering tip to get in really tight spots.

[@deezonmustardt6585]

Very cool . Glass makes everything cleaner.

[@dtiydr]

I have made a PVD and i made a completely clear and very thin PCB with that some years ago, looked pretty cool. Have also made copper, silver and aluminum mirrors that looked awesome.

[@jordanzish]

This is an awesome idea. I think I'm going to try something like this, and see if I can pull off a through hole board. It's got to be possible if you drill real carefully, and have lots of extras on hand in the event of a slip of the hand.

[@fully_retractable]

Also a syringe works well for depositing solder paste in tight areas, and automotive clear coat finish is highly resilient when it comes time to use solvents such as acetone, and is somewhat flexible until cured.

[@Skrillbo]

I've had the notion to try and make some PCBs out of unusual material like glass for a little while now, but I didn't really know where to begin (I've done the toner transfer method, but I had no idea if I could even buy copper sheets), thanks for the inspiration!

[@viscountalpha]

This is awesome. I'd love to see a controller like that for say, changing the radio or some sort of game input device. Thanks for showing us how you did it.

[@CNLohr]

There have been a lot of suggestions for this. I've switch to a spray polyurethane, but a number of products would probably work. I really don't have the time or resources to try them all! I recommend making some glass PCBs yourself and trying it out.

[@daikatarokamegawa542]

The fast camera part of the FeCl eating away the copper was damn awesome

[@blazblu82]

Dude, this is incredible! I have never seen anything like this. After seeing this vid, I have a few cool ideas to try soon.

[@CNLohr]

That's really cool - I tried angel gilding and electroplating it thicker and a few other things, but nothing could stand up to what I was after like this.

[@ISamuelII]

That was a nice spark when you plugged in your programming board ~18:10. Your last resistor looks like it had a short under it. From our view, the top one to our right of the IC chip. The first time you place the copper on the glass slide, there is a better way to prevent bubbles to begin with so you don't need to squeeze them out. Basic bio-lab slide making 101.

[@jdsweet3657]

Its been about a year but I finally made a board that plugs into an Atmel board. Can't wait to get them in.

[@dbzfanatic21]

@CNLohr I think orgameron means leaving the copper traces in place while brushing a solvent over the areas where you don't want/need the UV glue and just using the actual traces to protect the glue like the toner protects the copper during etching. It seems like that's more or less what you're doing with the polyurethane though as it cuts through the UV glue like a solvent but is also acting as a new method to adhere the traces at the same time.

[@JamesVincex]

This is very cool. It looks great and would get lots of kudos. I think think of a time where glass would be a practical advantage over epoxy but hey looks awesome. Great video thanks.

[@arkanglegeibriel]

oh but note: the glass and actual construction of the board itself was quite sufficient in this video and I want to say awesome vid ^_^

[@CNLohr]

Schematic is in ExpressPCB. Full version of eagle is not free. I don't use anything that's for pay unless I absolutely cannot avoid it. It's simply discharges the circuit, then waits for it to charge via 1M-ohm resistor. Depending on how long it takes to charge, that's how it knows how much capacitance you are adding.

[@Crux161]

Awesome! I completely overlooked that file, thanks again. I was starting to pull my hair out because express pc doesn't like to run under my setup in crossover.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I doubt the slide has a UV coating - it's just that glass is not very transparent at the short wavelength used in UV erasers (253nm) Eprom windows and eraser tubes are made of quartz for this reason. It may also be the case that the glue is not very res[ponsive at that wavelength. You will probably do better with a longer-wave UV source like an insect-killer tube (365nm).

[@jedwatkins7305]

I dont do this stuff, but am interested in learning how. So for what it's worth from an inexperienced observer, perhaps using a hot plate or inverted iron to heat the glass evenly when melting your solder paste would limit the possibility of cracking it. place the slides in a thin frame (thumb tacks point up through cardboard) to prevent them from sliding around as much when applying the poly. Split a small dowel in half and pinch steel wool between the halves. Insert one end into a drill.

[@dbzfanatic21]

@CNLohr basically the same thing you do to eat away the copper but for the UV glue you have. Use a solvent instead of ferric chloride(not sure if that's supposed to be one word or not) and use the etched pcb traces instead of toner. That way the glue is removed from the glass and the traces protect the glue under it. Like I said though you're already doing something similar with the polyurethane but with the added benefit of replacing the glue with something else more permanent.

[@AlabamaRiverMan]

I may try this... I don't have a laminator or uv oven though. It's been years and years since I fooled with circuit design and/or breadboarding. I've never made pcb's. My line of work is BGA reball/reflow and general computer repair. Love anything to do with electronics!

[@CNLohr]

Yes. I got some glass that was angel gilded, chemically plated on. I attempted to electroplate it further, but could not get it thick enough to electroplate effectively... The areas that I did were lumpy and did not go on even. Keep in mind, you need about 1 mil of metal to make a good circuit board.

[@CNLohr]

I use Liquid Tin quote often on most of my projects. The boards look 'cooler' with bare copper rather than tinned. I have still never successfully done a dual layer (not that I haven't tried). I would imagine the static properties are almost identical to regular FR4. I've been using glass circuit boards for a number of touch projects in my house which is carpeted, and even noticed some serious static, but haven't had a failure yet.

[@mccunecp]

now that I like the lamanater for adhering the toner to the copper I have always used a iron this is a nice idea I will now have to invest in one of those.

[@xmeda]

I made something similar, but first step was to vapor-deposite copper on glass, then a bit of galvanic process to enhance layer, then mask + etching and OALA circuit on glass was done :)

[@CNLohr]

It works on multiple substances, including film, however, you would not be able to toaster-oven film. You can do this on kapton, and it does toaster oven. I have never tried to do two layer.

[@CNLohr]

It's an interesting idea. I have often thought about using an acrylic, but that would have problems at solder temperatures... I was always under the impression epoxies without a strengthener were very brittle, though.

[@skilomodelista]

Nice work! Unfortunately I've not patience to do all this stuff, and never got a good results... Your work is very good, have quality!

[@CNLohr]

I do use a drop from the middle nowadays, but there are usually very, very small bubbles on the surface that do not splay out.

[@JasonDoege]

I used a pen-plotter once with appropriate ink. It worked out very well.

[@TJCrows]

Consider using an optical grade UV curing glue and gluing the shiny (polished) side of the copper foil to the glass slide. This should minimize the translucency you see after etching and the traces will look shiny through the glass.

[@CNLohr]

I actually use copper leaf from nimrod-hall now, so both sides are shiny :)

[@jeriellsworth]

Awesome!

[@gnif]

Thanks for the fast reply. I have ordered some copper that is normally used for guitar pick-up shielding to experiment with. I have the exact same printer in this video to use I can test with and see what I can get it to do :). If I find a reliable method I will let you know.

[@alexpmK3]

USE CELLULOSE PAINT THINNER to effortlessly remove pcb print after burning copper clad.

[@sleblanc]

Compressive forces on the surface of the pane make it much harder to break. However, high tensile strengths in the glass pane make it shatter if cut, chipped or even sometimes scratched. This is why car windows, for example, will shatter into small, barely sharp parts instead of large, razor-sharp pieces.

[@benjaminblumer352]

Have you ever tried selectively gluing the copper on? I'm thinking: -UV glue the copper sheet to the slide -tape a negative of your circuit on the non-copper side -Expose the glue through the negative (so that only the glue under where the traces are meant to be gets exposed) -Peel off the reset of the copper

[@websavvydood]

Neat method for single sided surface mount designs but a few tips: 1. As Java Lu (and maybe others) said, TRIPOD - PLEASE!! 2. Tin board with tinning solution before assembly - gives superior soldering 3. Use several coats of auto-spray lacquer on final assy for vastly superior finish. 4. When spraying remove all connectors & protect the header pins with sleeving or low tack masking tape for larger blocks 5. CLEAN your soldering iron tip PLEASE & use a much finer tip for such work

[@kd1s]

Pretty cool project. The camera focus bit was funny. A tip, just put the camera in macro mode. No more focus problems.

[@PunyMortal]

I have no clue what you did there or why. But it sure was interesting to watch.

[@natileyroxs]

i have no idea what i just watched but that was freaking cool!

[@agustinbmed]

Hi, I've done quite a lot of thru hole PCBs and I saw this video and was amazed, I've been trying to Fe into smd/smt pcb fabrication, and I was wondering what kind of solder paste are you using? Do you have another video with in-depth description on smd soldering? That'd be awesome! Thanks a lot and keep up the awesome work!

[@CNLohr]

I believe the quantity is somewhere in the order of one part per 30,000 dilution. If you pour the FeCl down the drain, bad things happen, if it's just a few drops, and you run plenty of water, it's not that bad.

[@CNLohr]

The glue is not conductive, while the glue is translucent, you'd still need a material that can conduct. I do use this process for touch sensors, I put designs into the copper.

[@JerryDodge]

I'm freaking out over how much your voice sounds exactly like me on camera.

[@CNLohr]

I use the attiny44. You don't need any special IC, just a 1 megaohm resistor and an GPIO. You can do this on most of their processors, not things like the attiny2313 though. Also, you don't need qtouch.

[@mvssarma3387]

you concept of DIY pcb on glass is so Nice, i admire and would love to repeat the process for my satisfaction. Great Effort has gone in. all the best of many more successes in future ,CNLohr. regards sarma

[@CNLohr]

thanks :)

[@GameFrameGaming]

It kinda reminds me of SG:A

[@CNLohr]

It's just a touch sensor - depending on the area you contact, it changes how strongly it believe it is pressed.

[@CNLohr]

I have not tried it, but I would imagine yes. I recently found out that UV lamp is not ideal for curing the glue because the wavelength is wrong. You would have to try.

[@CNLohr]

to protect the circuit from grime, dust, and to an extent ESD in the environment as well as to make the boards shiny and more see-through.

[@R5H4D0W]

This would be something of an educational value to illustrate the concept of a multi-layer vias within a multi-layer PCB. Of course it may be exceptionally difficult to fabricate one by hand. In some ways this design made the PCB look alot less "industrial" and more "artistic" while achieving the same objective. I'd say its practical :)

[@suit1337]

btw: what about using a transparent casting epoxy like those used for embedding carbon fiber or fibreglass you could just pour a thin layer of epoxy directly on the copper - so you won't need any glass at all, get seamlessly bond material (transparent of course) and you don't have to worry about thermal issues while soldering technically it would be an FR4 or 5 PCB without the strengthening fibreglass sheets

[@danielduesentrieb]

Thank you so much, for sharing your idea, layout and code with us! You rock!

[@fully_retractable]

excess solder can also be removed from bridged terminals on a surface mount components by simply stripping a piece of stranded copper wire using it like a sponge. i also prefer to take a grinder and chuck my tip in a drill to grind it to an extra fine point, then use liquid tin to prime the tip. Moving fast with a solder iron and solder paste you can avoid heating the glass by not exposing the glass to long periods of heat like you would using a messy soldering tip..

[@CNLohr]

Yeah, I have a 5N now. I do tin boards, many times, but it ruins the look of the board. And, I haven't had any trouble with solder-ability when I use paste. I actually have switch to a spray polyurethane now, too, doing just that. And, I totally am good with that hulk tip.

[@fully_retractable]

its basically liquid acrylic - although in heavy coats it tends to contract quite a bit, but many light coats should do the trick !

[@hpux735]

That seems to be what most people are using. I've read that they've changed the design recently (see the PCB "Fab in a box" page) for the worse. I was able to find this one on amazon that I'm going to try out called the Apache AL13P. Hopefully it won't need modification.

[@rasmusbangpedersen4907]

I have no purpose for this thing, but you made a really good and interesting video :) Thanks for making the world a better place :) Have a nice day :)

[@RecordingStarCity]

I'm laying one up with clear epoxy resin at this very moment. I'll let you know how it works out, I think it'll be a little less 'touchy' than the UV glue as it's what is used in conventional copper clad laminates

[@CNLohr]

The processor on there is an attiny44... I was using a tinyisp to program it. The specific programmer was a redesign I did.

[@CNLohr]

I have tried, with many different epoxies, glues, etc. to no avail. Also, on glass, you can't use a clothes iron, but on regular PCBs, it's not that bad.

So cool...I could imagine it would be really cool to put glass pcb's in a clear capsule and maybe som RGB leds inside to lit it up.

[@BadAndUgly]

This is awesome! Clear glass PCB's look really nice and I'd want to build something with LED's on a glass plate like that :)

[@geurogeuro9378]

the board looks great

[@ElSelcho77]

I found that tweezers for medical use work very well: precise, large variety of forms, stainless steel (anti magnetic) and can be cheaply bought on Amazon.

[@CNLohr]

I have this listed under my "to buy" section. I doubt the ferric chloride will be able to eat through the glue, but it may be possible to silkscreen the stuff.

[@CNLohr]

As it turns out it appears the wavelength used in the eeprom eraser is not optimal. The glass is transparent to UV, but you need to use a source like a mercury hallide grow lamp to get the right wavelengths.

[@CNLohr]

I actually use Riston now instead of toner transfer and I use a grow lamp to cure the glue. BUT! Your problem isn't that you need two sides, it's that you are using D-sub connectors. Ditch the connector.

[@CNLohr]

@BelfonteFurnace You could always try with the not-glass variety. Additionally, I only have about a 50% yield when making boards of about 20 square inches and up.

[@themainproblem]

That was a very nice effort and thanks for sharing it with us.

[@aaronmertes3460]

Not sure if this would help at all, but for finer wood building applications, marine spar varnish works better (ie. more clear and less translucent) than polyurethane.

[@CNLohr]

Just google "solder paste" I use Kester no-clean lead-tin alloy. I highly recommend lead-tin alloy solder paste as the RoHS stuff has a higher melting temperature, and is more brittle.

[@zsmalls2000]

Hey there, I dig the video man! I'm a Artist/Glassblower/Musician I'm working on a cigar box guitar amplifier at the moment I was wondering if you had ever tried making PCBs on round/ed glass or other shapes for that matter? I would love to do a collaboration circuit or something........? I'm just barely getting into the diy pcb/circuit making thing so I've be watching a lot of vids on it and so far you are the best I've seen, you seem to have high standards when it comes to high quality pcb crafting the video is a little rough around the edges but whatever I have a few vids that purdy rough myself! lol! Anyhoo I've been blowing glass for just about 13 years now so I got the glass down and you seem to be quite versed with your electronics/pcbs/circuits etc, I'm sure we could come up with some pretty amazing stuff. Anyway if your interested hit me back and let me know what you think,Ideas?,glass shapes/designs/colors? Maybe send you some glass to play with? Just a thought.Cool vid! ttysh Zac ;-)

[@akasickform]

Absolute legend! I was just thinking about this the other day, love the fact you can use it capacitive touch! Fair play to you! Currently working on a few things.. Maybe hit me up for a chat some time? Cheers!

[@geoffmaddox]

Wow, this is seriously amazing. Great result and very nicely explained.

[@CNLohr]

AMAZING! Thanks for that suggestion. Glass "Good" Metal "Good". Saving this link for glues! And I don't use transfer paper anymore.

[@CNLohr]

I was able to procedurally keep the temperature even and controlled in later tests. As long as I'm not using the RoHS stuff, it's fine. The bismuth stuff looks expensive.

[@franklynd]

I would pay good money to see you tackle making vias :P. Great work !.

[@CNLohr]

I get mine from Digikey, but you can get it from a few other places. Pulsar toner transfer paper!

[@TheScoutsHonor]

You can use a UV-curing topcoat. This can be obtained from a nail salon.

[@CNLohr]

When using the matte back copper, it doesn't really rub off.... ever it seems. But, I've been trying some shiny-backed copper and that is a major concern when removing the toner. Once the polyurethane is on, it's all on there for good. There's a lot of equipment, and not much space, I'll admit.

[@mysteryMachinePL]

You want to try Loxeal UV 30-20, its resistant to some of cleaning chemicals. Only problem is, its a bit expensive. Great video btw.

[@CNLohr]

That is 100% dependent on the size of what you want. Also, I'm doing ones with very shiny undersides now, too, not just the matte brown. I wouldn't charge extra for them. I don't know... a 1"x3" probably $15... A 5"x5" (the biggest I can reliably do at present) probably $60? I can make the board decent outlines with glass cutting. This is a first for selling.. I've printed hundreds but they just get tested heavily.

[@1pcfred]

You put the carborundum paste onto the glass, chuck copper then spin it in the carborundum. some grit gets trapped by copper and a hole is drilled. Usually it is how larger holes are drilled but I don't see why smaller ones wouldn't work. Drilling glass is slow going though. I can't imagine drilling a whole circuit out in glass.

[@CNLohr]

I think youtube ate my comment - but yes. And the process has improved so it should be easier than ever. Typically the difficulty only goes up when size increases... I don't know about less than 1x1 cm, though.

[@ShihWeiChieh]

FANTASTIC WELL DONE! 1. have you try this on transparent film? 2. have you think about how to make a double layer one? so you can make led matrix?