Andrew Sullivan survived the AIDS epidemic and then had to learn how to grieve

Author Andrew Sullivan grew up in Britain seeing his mom struggle with mental illness. He came to America as a young gay man and was named editor of The New Republic magazine, just as his friends began dying around him. Anderson talks with Andrew about surviving the AIDS epidemic and the complicated grief he feels following his mother’s death several months ago.

[@WhiteWhiskerPhotography]

I found out in 1986 that I was HIV positive. I didn't expect and didn't want to live to be 30 but I am 67 years old now. Thank you Anderson for this interview. I am shocked about how much grief that is still locked inside me.

[@amandab.recondwith8006]

I was a journalist in the early 80s in my twenties. The world was my oyster. Houston. Wealth. Friends. And one day we saw an article come over the AP wire about this strange cancer that seemed to affect only gay men in New York and San Francisco. This was a gay newspaper, and all us boys read this thing, and I remember us all looking at each other. We knew it was bad news before hardly anyone else. Every single one of those men died within two years and I'm the only survivor. Of course, I lost 90 percent of my other friends - many of them part of my "family." I was lucky because my parents accepted me totally, but I had friends whose parents simply dumped them. Plus when you got sick your job was ended and you lost your income and your insurance. It was horrifying! And the years of sitting in hospital rooms comforting them, and the years of attending funeral after funeral. I'm 70 years old now, and I've never recovered emotionally from that time. My 20s and 30s were scarred by the AIDS pandemic, and only until the 90s did the government finally kick in to help, but by that time, most of us were dead. I'll never forgive Reagan for his rejection, and I'll always hate Republicans for their condemnation of my people and me. And now they're in total control - and out of control. I can't stand it.

[@DieFlabbergast]

They are not the same Republicans: it is a different society. Back then, I'm betting most Democrats were also anti-gay, in private. The world changes.

[@user-highbaritone]

I’m with you. I understand. I thought I would be gone before any of this happened. I was wrong I will be living through the fall of Democracy. I’m Australian and have great friends in the American south. After 2016 I was shocked and one said “never forget we got “the Puritans, and you got “the convicts”. Have a look at the commercials that Australia did during the AIDS crisis. We will hang in there. ❤️

[@dianezybrands8250]

Thank you for another insightful and inspirational conversation. Anderson, you are a treasure. 💓

[@joycesloan5427]

You are a gift, Anderson, for being willing to talk about a critical topic. American culture doesn't know how to grieve, and we have been told that it's not okay to talk about grief. We are told that we should grieve alone because it makes people uncomfortable, which is ridiculous.

[@ClaraSunshine]

Agree with you. Even here in Canada the tradition of taking the time to grieve seems in the past.

[@Gina-dn6xm]

My cousin died of AIDS in 1987. He was only 27 years old. We were the same age and close friends. I miss his smile and his laughter..

[@Catmom2004]

I am your exact same age. I am sorry for your loss.

[@cindibajkowski2482]

the way this poor man is rocking back and forth just breaks my heart

[@krisxxxxw]

Difficult to listen to but necessary and deeply moving ❤ Thank you Andrew and Anderson ❤

[@robkeeleycomposer]

This is the best interview AS has done in years. Very moving. He’s looking well. I notice though that he’s avoided, as far as I can see, the recent political events on which he’d, I’m sure have strong views. I went to the same school and university as Andrew, just a couple of years older, so I am always interested in what he is doing. I’d love to give him a big, big hug. 🐻

[@elizabethheyenga9277]

I lived in San Francisco and was just finishing my masters in Public Health when it hit. I was in maternal/child health and people started paying attention when it wasn't just gay men. Sat at the table with a young Fauci who was a warrior, laser focused. Kaposi's Sarcoma was such a heartbreaker, when that first one showed up and a person's soul was crushed. For gay men it was like war, the PTSD is real and permanent. How many 30 somethings lose hundreds of peers in a decade?

[@seniorswiftie]

THANK YOU Anderson. This is your best work. You help so many by talking about grief and loss. Please continue your “All There Is” podcasts. 🙏❤

[@chrisd.8694]

Yesterday for some bizarre reason, I started counting people who where close to me who passed. 19, and we all who lived in SF, was so emotional. They were my bud's. WE all ran together and had fun.....Some lovers, many not. Was, now at 73 the hardest thing to live through. Thank you Andrew. Yes, it was important to be there. Yet, so hard to watch them fade to nothing.

[@KATRTR]

Your guest's mother did not CHOOSE to die, the end stage of Dimentia and Alzheimer’s results in malignant protein tangles in the brain that interrupt the signal to the brain that informs the person that they are hungry. As the significant mechanisms of body organs shut down people stop talking, eating and drinking. That is why most such patients die of dehydration & starvation. I watched for three weeks while my mom died. It was excruciating that I was the only one with the courage to be present while my mom died. I feel it was a gift that she was with me when I was born and I was with her when she died. We completed the circle of life together. I was not relieved she died. I am still in unvanquished grief that I have not begun to process except I wrote an epic poem about her life. I finally read it to her at her grave where I spent Thanksgiving with her. I was grateful for the strength to finally read it to her. I tried to read it at her funeral but I was too exhausted and intimidated by my brother to read it at her funeral. Thank you Anderson for this podcast. It helps me too.

[@lorrainebaker1029]

It is so cathagic to talk about one's grief... My daughter suffers with the same diagnosis and it can be unbearable because no one can understand the deep pain we must live with.. Good for you for letting others hear your story.. God bless you.❤

[@sarahdavis8248]

Very, very sorry for your losses. Appreciate so much your forthrightness.

[@blanchefan]

So moving, beautiful. Men must liberate themselves, as these two have, enough to feel, to grieve and to love; above all to love--starting with yourself--and then--others!

[@cathydevaney2413]

My family knew several people that lost their lives to AIDS. It was so heartbreaking and as a 20 something at that time it angered me how the world treated people with AIDS. No one deserved this disease.

[@Bespoke2]

Very moving to listen to! Thank you for this! ❤

[@riverebec1]

I was working for a talent agency when the article on a strange "cancer" that was infecting gay men came out in the LA Times. Nobody believed it was true. A few years later I was receiving news of the deaths of friends, colleagues, and clients on an almost daily basis. It was a very sad and dark time.

[@JWCherner]

Anderson, you interviewed me at my home 40 years ago. I wish I would have been more aware. I wish I had made a connection with you. We could have helped each other. I guess it's not too late. Our lives have much in common. I never realized it, because you were interviewing me. I never thought, even off camera, to interview you. I knew nothing about you. We are close in age, but my children are now grown. BW did a story about us for 20/20 when the kids were little. I think it was one of her favorite stories. I'd love to have coffee with you sometime. If you're up for it, just let me know.

[@Jen10000]

You are an amazing gentleman and I want to thank you for such a tribute to your friends and so many who suffered through such a horrendous ordeal. Your perspective is so knowing and insightful. What an absolute tragedy the AIDS epidemic was. What a brave, courageous man you are Mr Sullivan. I salute you for speaking out and ensuring those lost are never forgotten. ❤

[@jasonfuchs4304]

Ummm, dude literally could have avoided this illness. Not sure why you call him a hero?

[@Jen10000]

⁠really, how? No-one knew about the disease or how to prevent it. It was a brand new illness.

[@gymratcarpediem7761]

My best friend died from HIV/AIDS on Sept.9, 2024. We had been friends for 28 years. His family was Muslim. I was not permitted to go to his funeral.

[@rickjuarez57]

With today's medications, how was it that this individual met death from AIDS? Care to share? I thought those drugs ended the uncertainty of longevity? I used to work at an STD/HIV clinic and did community outreach. However, that was before the new medications were utilized. Thanks.

[@nathaliejewelcusson4607]

Unbelievably real moments on this podcast. My new addiction. I cry, I learn, I rethink so much in my own life, and about loss. Thank you so much Mr. Anderson for being so true and deep and emotional. Helps me get mine out. You are priceless! Sending love. ❤

[@EDUARDO-bj9wf]

Congratulations Andrew from Brazil

[@DWNMC]

That was so wonderful .. thank you both.

[@YoshiNishio]

Andrew, my friend.Your life reminds me of mine too.

[@JG-qt3pn]

A lot of grief for me was mourning the relationship I didn't have with that person.

[@davidryan2929]

On the day before I was wed to my husband, I spotted Andrew Sullivan on a bike on his way to the beach at Provincetown. I said, "Hey! Andrew! Thanks! I'm getting married tomorrow thanks to you!" He treated me like paparazzi and kept peddling past us. (2013) To some extent I owe him. He's a hero. He made my life possible. But he dislikes "fans."

[@ClaraSunshine]

It's not because people doesn't like fans... I used to work for TV in Canada few years ago. It's because the people want to be private, sometimes unknown. It's their precious personal time, their freedom to be alone. I can understand that easily.

[@jackmorrissey4841]

It’s heartbreaking to hear that some young gays don’t want to engage with this incredibly difficult yet vital part of our community’s history. Educating ourselves is essential to ensure we don’t repeat the mistakes of the past. A deeply moving listen 💔💔

[@wawathunder]

This is a powerful testimony. I have always listened to Andrew and read his words. This honest conversation is one that rarely happens in this format. Grief is a big part of my life, and has been a journey over many years. Loss is deep and complicated. Thank you for your candour and dignity, Andrew and Anderson.

[@ciaosatia]

Wow. I wasn’t aware of this podcast prior to listening to this one. I’m so grateful for this conversation. First, the details about the AIDS victims was so fascinating. I was a teenager when the epidemic hit. Being a straight female, it was foreign and confusing. My aunt had many gay friends who we considered friends. I’ve watched many films and documentaries on this topic, however, none of them gave me this brief but profound insight into the frontlines of this massive cultural experience of grief-individually and collectively. About 7 years ago, my aunt’s dear friend died of a meth (plus extra stuff mixed in?) overdose . This absolutely baffled me as he was successful, kind, -not imaginable that he had a history of addiction. Now., After listening to that split second comment, it makes perfect sense. I pray for more of these AIDS-related stories. I’m subscribing and purchasing the book Thank you.

[@annemarr8096]

Yes! ❤

[@jasonfuchs4304]

Ummm, shit happens,sad. Be better and good luck

[@nathaliejewelcusson4607]

Your pain and tears and emotions are HEALING US! Please never deprive yourself and also US of this blessing. You are amazingly giving.

[@carolinemaybe]

Thank you Andrew. Thank you both. I remember. It was almost indescribable. That we had to hide it and pretend they had cancer. It was horrendous.

[@jeromegagne2829]

Powerful human interview

[@DavidMiller-kf1ss]

Okie hugs, sir!🎉

[@JimiBegbaaji]

Please enable clip sharing.

[@maureenjones5808]

My boyfriend gotten aids the infection was streptococcus meningitis and we had to keep it a secret I couldn’t tell anyone because of the “fear” that they could get it from a cup or spoon testing took 6 months to get results it was an awful time he died 38 years old and to this day I feel “uncomfortable” talking about it because the stigma that came with it

[@EduardoOliveira-e8c]

God bless

[@tamzidazizpial]

39. Three stages of a fetus in maternal womb(surah39,verse6)1.embryogenic(teratogenic phase)2. After notochord formation and establishment phase (40 + few days)3.During near to internal os.

[@760HorsePower]

That 7pm CNN chick has a major crush on Putin 😳

[@jasonfuchs4304]

Dude does have a topless only horse. Respect

[@drewmu88]

Uh oh Trump might get jealous.

[@ThomasdaleHopewelljr]

Anderson cooper if you had or wanted to choose a Bitcoin would gold bronze or silver matter and if so would the sound of music or coin be in-between. 3:21

[@12345CONWAY]

Andrew is a real man

[@r.l.strange1897]

😂

[@12345CONWAY]

@r.l.strange1897 I'm secure enough in my heterosexuality to call a gay man a real man

[@louistully3831]

Where did they put Liz Cheney now that they realize she's of absolutely no use to anyone?

[@BERNARDO712]

Next to useless people who can't stay on topic?

[@tamzidazizpial]

29.Dance of bee(surah Nahal 16,verse 68-69)By dancing bee communicates with one another. Recently scientists finds it and gives this communication method named as"waggle"dance.By this dance bee finds their smallest way to return home.

[@Chronoir3]

Is this CNN's Joe Rogan Experience? LMFAO!

[@nobody4933]

It's Rainbow Rogan

[@jackmorrissey4841]

Joe Rogan has never had a conversation this heartfelt and insightful

[@randysimmons9838]

Where did aids come from?

[@journalistedisoncarter]

Nov 18, NPR: In a new ruling on Monday, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court directed all of the state's county election officials not to count certain mail-in ballots for this year's general election that arrived on time but in envelopes without the correct dates handwritten by voters

[@tamzidazizpial]

30.process of making honey from bee body(surah Nahl or bee16,verse67and 69). After collection of flower juice by bee, from gland of bee some amount of special fluid emission occur which increases density and specificy colour of flower juice and produce nectar.There are different colours of nectar we can find.

[@user-ql5yb2hs2p]

❤❤❤

[@marywolters3612]

Anderson, you should not be listening to this. It is too sad.

[@tamzidazizpial]

27.Rosette(red rose)nebula prediction (surah 55,verse37): After massive explosion of star,dystar things of universe(supernova explosion) nebula created. Some nebula become red like ointment. The situation of earth also will be red like ointment after such big explosion on the day of judgement. This nebula is able to produce star and contains a lot of stars.

[@sue1048]

To see these horrible comments remind ne that hell is alive and well and the minions are running their mouths.

[@Thomas-xy4sh]

AND many of us did Andrew, who regularly rallies against interests. Hypocrite.

[@Lekikna]

Is THIS what we are talking about on the brink of WWIII? Are you gonna delete this comment? Screenshot:)

[@Justin7-figu]

KZbin is always deleting the best comments

[@carolinemaybe]

Why would they delete it? It’s insensitive and stupid but there are heaps of them. Also maybe stupid listening to the InfoIdiot.

[@Lekikna]

@ let’s see how long mine lasts 😂

[@Justin7-figu]

@@Lekikna we always come back 😂👍

[@Lekikna]

@@Justin7-figu cuz truth always wins, my friend 🤭

[@Myopiniononly]

Anderson is all ears 👂 haha

[@kinyangbinyo1382]

Please repent from this life. Jesus is the only way.

[@leinsterfan1802]

Who taught you to follow god? Da white man.

[@boysdontcry5487]

That’s utter bullshit. You’re likely a closet homosexual like so many ‘men of god’.

[@AaliyahFictional]

Nope😂

[@JP-lu9ed]

Jesus was not a bigot.

[@kinyangbinyo1382]

@JP-lu9ed I was giving an advice.I didn't force my opinion on anyone.Thats why I used the word "Please" Thank you

[@tamzidazizpial]

33.Formation of universe (Big bang):(surah 21,ayat30) Everything of creation were one single unit and then became separated by certain massive explosion.In this verse"ratq" means joined and "fatq" means separated.

[@DavidJ2222]

Cnn😂😂😂

[@lieuphuongmai9592]

Anderson cooper cnn

[@turdians]

Is je gay?

[@Justin7-figu]

They really trying to copy Joe Rogan now, huh? 😂😂😂 bruh

[@NhanThai-f3o]

I care

[@JohnDoe-fq7tc]

Gay death, is real , so is hell , seek Jesus now❤

[@edbenti5007]

You are hell.

[@c.f.okonta8815]

They need to give their life to Christ

[@carolinemaybe]

You’re right up there with dumbest comment. If there’s a hell it won’t be just gay people. It will be the bigots.

[@kingtchenka628]

Your sky wizard isn't real

[@CaseyKCRichards]

Jesus…. Jesus is no place to be found.. after his resurrection didnt go up in the hills and disappear? Has not been since since. Jesus the most worshipped on the planet has absolutely done nothing for humanity. Fff - off with this Jesus

[@PaigeSeiderman-zi8cj]

Woo-hoo!!!

[@comacuma2869]

Compare ure bunch 2 congressman khana n mbs n stuff

[@r.l.strange1897]

This is cnn now 😂

[@nobody4933]

Rainbow Rogan 😂

[@TABUK_SHAKUR]

Evening Reminder: Kamula / Biden Lost👍🏻

[@edbenti5007]

…and so did America.

[@candyhenry7759]

You lost you just don’t know it yet 😂jokes on you!

[@TABUK_SHAKUR]

@ 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@Justin7-figu]

This daily reminder makes me happy. Don’t be discouraged by these bots.

[@TABUK_SHAKUR]

@ these aren’t bots! 🤖🚫 believe me kid

[@KeZhang-y3u]

WTF is this ?

[@Justin7-figu]

Them trying to shift the narrative. They’re throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.

[@KeZhang-y3u]

@@Justin7-figu exacly, they can do whatever they want with their but*&* but dont push it to rational citizens!! 75% of americans Vote for TRUMP including normal democrats that doesn't want their WOKE agenda !!

[@carolinemaybe]

Did you even listen to it?

[@SkeeDaddle-mh7yx]

@@carolinemaybe listening to tears

[@bgthtr6404]

What makes him so special? He's not the only survivor. I too was infected and diagnosed in 1993 and I've never had AIDS. Sullivan is one of MILLIONS of survivors.

[@carolinemaybe]

You are vile. Of course he’s not special but younger people need to know what it was like back then. That’s why these conversations are so needed.

[@Round_N_Round_Again]

When you were diagnosed in '93, did your Doc put you on meds right away? What was your lowest ever T-Cell/CD4 count since your initial positive test?

[@bgthtr6404]

@Round_N_Round_Again Yes, I started anti virals right after my diagnosis. I take my meds religiously so that's why I'm still alive. My lowest CD4 was 510 back in 1992. When protease inhibitors hit in 1994, my CD4 went through the roof and has steadily been high. I'm a 31 survivor and I have 1500 TCells right now, a normal immune system.

[@Round_N_Round_Again]

@@bgthtr6404 I too was diagnosed in '93. I was 23 yo, healthy and my doc said I probably just recently seroconverted and didn't start me on anything. Cut to 2002 and a lab result showing 118 T-Cella I was diagnosed with AIDS and began my first regimen (Sustiva/Truvada/Viread). After that was discontinued it was Atripla, now it's Biktarvy and my viral load is undetectable.

[@nonesuch27]

Why is this what you take away from this? He's not saying he's special. He just happened to live through it as a writer. He's been writing on these themes for decades.

[@cnnothingburgerletsgobrand6381]

😂🤣 That's right Anderson, ur next

[@TABUK_SHAKUR]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Justin7-figu]

Bruh that’s dirty but I love it 😂😂😂

[@faisonhoward9191]

Gays should read Roman's chapter 1-3..for your sakes.❤

[@edbenti5007]

And Christians should read Mathew 25.

[@Rojitos]

​@@edbenti5007 you should read 1 Corinthians ch 6 verse 9. Gays to to hell.

[@carolinemaybe]

Read the rest of it. The bible says lots of things like about bacon and shrimp.

[@Joshua_Froschauer]

Me, too! I survived the epidemic!!!

[@TheWanAndObi]

I wasn't alive then. What did you have to do to survive?

[@SegsuttINArineandEVA]

Hey your don't know bible my son care for that himself don't take my money when him born i just leave but him not die and i cry Im with my dear son hiv now 555

[@PSLLP]

Whoops 👌🏻😂

[@SegsuttINArineandEVA]

Now my friend died him because him father don't like why born why don't nkow what to do shame to be American peoples me old naa IM win mercury do you reed

[@SegsuttINArineandEVA]

Hey my son takes night of Americans pay me don't I m go eu think about it

[@VirgilWatson-u8o]

See u in nome alaska