Coarse whetstone review! some advises for choosing a coarse stone to shape your bevels

[@TimJohnson-x1o]

i found this video randomly. this is by far the best video or any review I have ever seen on such topics anywhere. by far. and I'm just more than halfway through the video. as you stated, which is not a thing i've found everyone even understands, is the fact that diamond as an abrasive is not conducive to contrasting finishes like you'd want on a traditional Japanese style knife between the layers of core and cladding.

[@19Chrisi97]

Thank you for the recommendations, this really helps setting foot in this weirdly specific topic^^

[@Robinouille]

Great to have detail insight on the characteristics/utilities of these stones. Thanks Milan ! Vadim

[@TimJohnson-x1o]

the pink stone is pink alumina. naniwa has 2 different version of their 220 grit stone, one is pink alumina, just like this, and the other is green silicon carbide. I really like the shapton pro 120, which is very hard white alumina. hard and course. can glaze or load but once you get used to using it it can do a lot. the 220 and 320 from the shapton pro line are splash and go silicon carbide stones which I really like, but of course you have to understand their nuances. I would like to try the glass 220, but I don't have it. The chosera 400 is such a great base stone. nice and hard and slow wearing unlike the 800 or 1k for instance which are very friable. the one downside the 400 chosera is it doesn't do contrasting finishes but that's fine. the 800 and 1k are excellent for this. I always prefered Suehiro stones for contrasting finish anyhow. I will shut up now because I can go on about all the stones for days. I would say maybe you want to try... sigma select, 240 or 1k. they are quite course. friable. fast cutting. silicon carbide stones. The norton 220 waterstone, or the cystolon oil stone. Or you could try 3M diamond films, which are incredible. I use the 120 and 220 alot which cut just as well as another coated abrasive like diamond plate but the surface finish they leave is higher quality than even the best bonded stones. They do break in quickly like all coated abrasives but they will last a very long time if used correctly. I also tried ordering resin bonded diamond stones from China for very little money. They are actually excellent. The 1k is more like a 400, a very fast cutting 400. the 3k is actually basically a 3k and the 12k is actually more like a 4k or 5k at best. I don't consider it a finishing stone because it can still generate small burrs if you try. All of them are excellent, hard, slow wearing, fast cutting, and cost very low. to go totally off topic other interesting stones I really like are the king neo 800 grit, which is a green silicon carbide stone that is incredible and costs very little. it's basically SNG as a chosera, cuts any steel very quickly, leaves a great edge, great finish, does contrast, wears very slowly. it's very similar in feel to a chosera stone but cuts better .

[@milangraviercoutelier]

hey, Thanks for the advises. I tried sigma select 240, very similar to Debado but would not say it is precise enough for my work. Did not try norton 220, nor shapton pro 120. 3M Diamond film could be an idea I could try. And King neo 800 seems interesting but not easily available in France.

[@manuelbousquet]

Great content thank you ❤

[@gravlaz]

Great comparisons. For the thinning or flattening what would you recommend? I work with some exotic steels like Pmv11 and blue steel. Sometimes flattening the backs of chisels takes ages...

[@milangraviercoutelier]

for thinning/flattening, I would use or Oboro 200, or Venev 80, or hk.knifework 400 normal (soft stone but really fast). Anyway it is long work so I would advise also to have a power tool if there is really a lot to grind. Horizontal water cooled wheel machine can be good for chisels and start flattening.

[@gravlaz]

Thanks for the suggestions!

[@olan5668]

I need an extra-coarse stone, the grit is around 200. A versatile/balanced stone for heavy work (repair chipping) and just for setting up bevel (skip the Naniwa Chosera/Pro 400). The edge scratch pattern left must be able to refine by Naniwa Chosera/Pro 800, before jump to Naniwa Chosera/Pro 3000 (if needed). For thinning (double bevel) and later to make new kasumi finish, which one extra-coarse stone do you think better, a harder stone?

[@milangraviercoutelier]

@@olan5668 what you demand is a bit too much. I don't think any 200 grit stone work will be effectively cleaned by a naniwa 800. Might work but might be long. I would put naniwa 400 or 600 in between. My advise would be : Or nsk oboro 200 : cut not too deep, work on different steel and iron, keeps cutting if you use slurry. Or venev 240 : you will have a 100 with it or a 400 (they are double side stones) I would take the 100 + 240 personally. It's harder stone than venev, it can clog faster but if you use slurry it will cut for quite long time. You need sic powder to open surface again. But as it is harder it stay flat much better and give more precision. If you want to refine with 800 faster... A diamond 400 could be good for you, naniwa diamond or nsk 400 are good stones.

[@olan5668]

@@milangraviercoutelier Do you think Naniwa Chosera/Pro 800 can refine the edge scratch pattern left by Suehiro Debado LD 180? i saw a video on YT that he use LD 180 then jump to LD 1000, seems ok. But i concern about the hardness issue of LD 180 that you mention in this video. How do you flatten extra-coarse whetstone? using Atoma 140?

[@milangraviercoutelier]

@@olan5668 if you're talking only about edge sharpening of course doing 200 grit to 1k is possible because surface is small. Debado won't behave too soft when used for edges or hard steel. It will behave soft when thinning bevels San mai with iron clad. You can flatten debado 180 with atoma 140 or sic powder on glass or granit

[@capolot]

You should try the naniwa diamond stones.

[@milangraviercoutelier]

Sorry I did not talk about it but I tried them of course. The 400 is a great stone but just not coarse enough for shaping work. A 200 grit is a must to my point of view

[@sryslyuguys]

Which is the fastest cutting coarse stone in your oppinion, particularly without high pressure

[@milangraviercoutelier]

Honestly not an easy question. I really like venev stones, but with the way looks like they are less and less available. And they are very hard stones so not the fastest. Fastest stone without pressure will be nsk stones

[@sryslyuguys]

@@milangraviercoutelier thank you that's much appreciated. I might try the NSK 200 perhaps, also maybe the pink brick and shapton 120/220

[@twatmunro]

That's a beautiful knife you're using for the demo. One of your own?

[@milangraviercoutelier]

Thank you, yes it is ! an old knife I use for testing stones

[@e30Birdy]

Ist that the Imanishi 220 arato? I picked one of those up a while ago but also just got a debado 180 after hearing so many good things about it.

[@milangraviercoutelier]

Yes it is bester (imanishi) arato 220 grit. Good stone to my point of view. Debado is great too.

[@marijusrunovicius6945]

Great content! What is your suggested progression now? JKS 200, debado180 soft, debado 180 hard and then naniwa pro 400?

[@milangraviercoutelier]

I think you should choose or whetstone : Imanishi 200 then Naniwa 400 ; Or replace imanishi by Venev 80+150 or 100+240, then Naniwa 400. Or go NSK stones. Of course you can mix but different brand won't have the same progression. Debado are good stones but difficult to advise them finally... What will you get, hard, soft, you don't know