Why do Content Creators get Everything Nerfed?

[@dowsey]

Kills = Skill

[@kimikothetanuki314]

Hate it when you play dbd and you miss the puck 😢

[@basitchaudhary1217]

U have to play dbd again aint no way you are ditching us

[@donu720]

Why play for skill then am I right? The community can define its own skill

[@arshaanjaved1044]

Man u and hybridpanda got me into dbd Still miss ya buddy😊

[@misuvittupaa8068]

You're brave

[@jamiegreig9699]

I'm surprised no one every pointed out the very big flaw with Patrick's analogy "If DBD is like hockey, why don't survivors win as a team?"

[@jknMEMES]

And why does one team only have one player? Hockey matches tend to have more players on both teams.

[@robuelo]

if dbd is like hockey, why isnt there a dude with a chainsaw trying to hook them 🤔

[@Kasparth]

People pointed all that at the time, because it was a retarded analogy and his arguments were stupid.

[@SAVAGENEDVED]

Everything else in hockey or any other sport matters too. There is a reason people analyze player stats and give out recognition for most assists, blocks, hits, penalty box time. It all influences the results

[@aliencreative9360]

THAT PART!!!! this game can reward individual survivors for ratting their team... hockey could never

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Who would have known. Making your objective, kills, would make people go for, you guessed it, kills! Good vid man, reacted to it.

[@CoconutRTS]

Yessir! You had some good points within the debate, glad you liked it fam!

[@redsledgeblu5234]

Its wild! Like some kinda dajavu.. I swear ive heard a British fella say this for years 🍻

[@tomekgulash]

ngl i'm happy for you (not game i lost interest long time ago) to get recognition, it was a long wait but i guess better later than never. Also happy otz came around.

[@Swanzo]

@TrU3Ta1ent And for being right you got labeled a villain of dbd......

[@BasementDweller_]

Crossover comment moment.

[@phoemnix2999]

god i forgot how mad patrick can make you with even just 5 seconds of talking, he will not be missed

[@zaer-ezart]

It's his smug smile that really did it for me back then

[@phoemnix2999]

@@zaer-ezart that smirk evokes such a primal feeling in my brain lol i hate him so much

[@otsugua77]

@@phoemnix2999 ledgends say he is now working in hockey2k xd

[@TheSteeltec]

Same, I genuinely had blocked that from my mind and my blood started to boil once it all came back to me. Thank god he's gone. Also, if you were going to put together a hockey team, how would you do it? Probably by signing the different players with the most shots and goals, and the best defenders blocking goals, ya know, the players that have displayed the most individual skill, which may not necessarily be on the winning team.

[@ryandeguzman0308]

humpty dumpty

[@scottsurvival6960]

The pettiness of taking away cosmetics from a big creator for reasonable criticism really backfired for Behavior. That's the kind of thing that gives motivation for revenge.

[@scottsurvival6960]

​@@Chaoxide666I think Behavior handles criticism poorly and it reflects badly on them.

[@OrdellRob]

@@Chaoxide666Absolutely correct

[@its-tinyavocado]

​@@Chaoxide666let me guess, there is always someone being wrong on twitter and it upsets you deeply and ruins your day

[@Mortimer78]

@@Chaoxide666 LOL, what they should have done was probably hire him right away for caring so much for the game and I think that would have been very healthy for them. They are crying for someone at their stab to actually understand and play the game the way the die hard fans do...

[@Chaoxide666]

@@Mortimer78 hire somebody who was openly bashing one of your developers, spreading memes and encouraging their fanbase to mock them as well rather then have a civilized discussion? Lol ok

[@yourikhan4425]

I've not forgotten how petty the devs have been with Dowsey. It was so obvious the kill = skill statement was wrong and instead of meditating on the feedback, they've done wrong to Dowsey and changed a lot of things to match their broken idea.

[@shinymew1213]

Exactly they don’t want to accept they were wrong and instead just nerf anyone he specifically abuses. And I hope he keeps abusing the abilities so they have to keep nerfing their game. Matter of fact, drowsy could single handedly rebalance dbd 😂

[@boringmonkey6958]

Meh. I dont blame them for being petty with Dowsey tbh. Dowsey wasn't particularly a great look for DBD... I remember him camping boxes as Pig when you used to be able to force a headpop on one or more survivors by blocking the one and only box the survivors could use to get their headtrap off. He then proceeded to spend the entire stream whinging and riling his chat up about how the survivors were "holding the game hostage" because they knew about the strat and were refusing to pop any gens until he gave up trolling and started chasing people. It was the most cringeworthy thing to see, thankfully there were some sane people in chat flaming him for being such a hypocrite. I wasn't surprised when he had his twitch shirt removed. He's an a**

[@The-Doctor6969]

​@@boringmonkey6958the whinging is cringe but pig box just needed a nerf, is it his fault nothing gets nerfed until streamers abuse it? its just created a culture of abuse-until-its-banned

[@boringmonkey6958]

@The-Doctor6969 I'm not going to argue because you're not wrong, I agree with what you're saying. It was just his general attitude around the entire thing. It was perfectly okay for him to abuse an unintended feature in the game which resulted in boring, non-matches for the other side - but the moment the Survivors started playing him at his own game, they were suddenly the problem and he riled his whole chat up to dunk on the Survivors whenever they came into chat. It was embarrassing behaviour and I truly do not understand how so many people think Dowsey was a good influence on the community, or that it was somehow surprising or unfair that BHVR gave him the boot.

[@The-Doctor6969]

@@boringmonkey6958 I think it's only surprising because there's plenty of fog whisperers that have been toxic with no consequences. If that was why he got the boot, which he wasn't, they should hold everyone to that standard. But holding other streamers to that standard means they would inevitably have to make changes to the game, which they won't. bhvr is so petty lol

[@Lemon842-z8c]

The game developers thinking that skill in dead by daylight is on par with a game of hockey where it just comes down to kills and nothing else, is all you need to know about BHV as to why this game can be so miserable to play at times and it’s taken upwards of 8 years for the most basic of quality of life changes to be added to this game like a simple search bar for perks. The devs quite literally don’t play nor understand what makes their game fun or skillful.

[@CalamboMamo]

I've quit the game somewhere around January and seeing as what changed and what not, I do feel like it was one of my best decisions.

[@Mortimer78]

And they had to make Hockey as an example, litraly one of the few games in the world giving equaly cred for passing the puck as scoring, and it goes for two passes........

[@magical571]

@@Mortimer78 yeah...it would have made more sense if they said football or basketball, not that it would have been a perfect analogy regardless, but better.

[@pokerusfreak8194]

there was a HUGE flaw in this logic to begin with, using a sports analogy and even thinking the way they did in the first place to compare individual MMR ratings to TEAM wins in a team game... In sports, TEAMS are rated separately from PLAYERS. You have individual player stats for a reason, stats that teams pay attention to when recruiting players, and also personalities that may or may not mesh well in teams. Sports teams look at ALL of this data to build the best team they can get their hands on, and then ONLY THEN are those teams rated against other teams. If you ignored all of that process and ONLY focused on the end result in sports, you would similarly end up with a terrible player experience and skewed data. They attempted to take a system made for individual grading, and applied it to a team game without that process. Other game companies have done this as well, but not in such a simplistic manner, not in such a POOR manner. Even if, at the end of the day, those other games apply an up or down rating based on wins or losses... the systems behind them are more nuanced, more likely to match you with players of a variety of skill levels to constantly test their own system and your skill, more likely to contain checks and balances, the ability to degrade MMR if you dont play, seasonal resets, etc. DBD implemented one of the WORST versions of a MMR based matchmaking I have seen in 30+ years of hardcore gaming. They took a complex system, assumed they could oversimplify it based on bad logic, and boiled it down into a horrible player experience.

[@veladanjbakht140]

Bro learn something: when you see a football match no one gives f how many times a team had dribbled or got penalties or corners . You see the result and thats all. If you cant understand this then do a favor first to your self then to this game: leave the fu€king game and stop moaning on online. Its just a fu€king game. Never saw a online game community like dbd which bring a game stuff to real life.

[@not_zaknefarious]

This all happened at a time in my life where I was finding out that it really doesn't matter how smart or hard working you are, there are people out there earning x10 more than you with less than 1/2 the work.

[@TarsonTalon]

What realistic option do intelligent hardworking people have in society now? Conquest? If society was truly promoting the best and brightest, and wasn't a cesspool of nepotism, why do we have the social problems we have?

[@DeathWish-DJ]

​@TarsonTalon don't know if this is a general question or directed at OP but you practically pointed out the something he did but as a question....kind of confusing

[@nuprotocol]

To see Trutalent vindicated is refreshing. His worse fear about DBD being based on kills has come "true". I know a lot of people enjoy hating on him and his takes but ultimately he wanted the game to be fun for both sides.

[@oliverhardy9464]

Survivors didn't like him because he was against their power trip perks. He was for balance instead of imbalance.

[@tomfooler9398]

He was just a bad content creator tbh

[@fliersyDBD]

@@tomfooler9398 explain? I personally think he is a good content creator. So explain why you say he is : " just a bad content creator tbh " 🙃

[@tomfooler9398]

@@fliersyDBD he doesn't put effort into his video creation as seen by his lack of thumbnails, he complains more than Zubat, and most importantly he's British

[@gianglai7346]

​@@tomfooler9398 So you do hate Slate, JRM, and Ayrun too? They are all British

[@ThomasC-sd9mz]

Poor Otz gave up trying to get the developers to improve the game, because the devs just ignored him. Dowsey gave up on DbD completely. DbD's balance will probably be a little silly forever.

[@its-tinyavocado]

Yup. Their anti-camp doesn't even work properly. How the hell you aren't counting meters on basement hook from some point on the stairs and not from the hook itself.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Even though Fog Whisperers were never originally intended for said FW to give suggestions to the developers, the unwillingness to take feedback into consideration will probably hurt the game and the community in the long run

[@anettelma123]

Yea I feel like Otz is on the brink of deciding to quit the game

[@anarchy5partan662]

​@@anettelma123It's really seemed like he's been having more fun when playing other games lately

[@Rustyyhello]

i'd say for the most part they are listening more now than they ever have

[@mateusgsc243]

It's so sad seeing Tru3 being downright prophetic of what was going to happen to DBD, how bad it would get for survivors (and killers), and people STILL treat him as some killer main spitting nonsense that would only hurt survivors, as if the gameplay he was advocating for back then wasn't the opposite of what everyone's complaining these days on DBD. I think the last part of this video quickly showcases how people are constantly attacking a strawman of what Tru3 says rather than what he actually advocates for over the years.

[@VincentADK]

Agreed.

[@pmaestas93]

Tru takes everything so serious and complains so much that it is hard to like him.

[@mateusgsc243]

​@@pmaestas93he loves this game though, same as Otz. But, yes, he can be very blunt, speak his mind freely, challenge viewpoints on the spot...It ends up creating this overly serious look for him and the notion he's always complaining about the game. But I think people should've listen to what he had to say back then rather than being pushed away by his personality, there's truly value in content creators with thousands of hours in the game like him, like Otz as well, that have been with this game since the early stages and even that have experience with other online multiplayer games (Tru3 likes fighting games and those also use MMR iirc, which can be valuable knowledge for comparisons, at least).

[@pmaestas93]

@@mateusgsc243 I'll watch a video of his here and there specifically due to his game knowledge being elite but his content and personality turns me away. It's like he only wants to play competitive and doesn't let loose and have fun like jrm, ayrun, dowsey, otz,sweh, skermz. Just solo gameplay competitively. Like I said his skill is top tier so I'll watch how he'll play a killer but thats about it. He does have alot of points but I do disagree sometimes on things.

[@magical571]

oh, tru3 gets treated pretty poorly even though many of his ideas are actually good for survivors, like the focus on hooks rather than kills or his idea of the "suffering" meter to mention some. He can come across as a little harsh or maybe snobish regarding new players, but it's because he is very confident, but he isn't toxic at all. Despite of what one may think of his opinions, and in fact he is pretty tame once you sit down and listen to his streams instead of just drama clips online... But that whole drama and tea about smurf accounts honestly doomed any chances he had of being reagrded positively by anyone who plays survivor at all honestly. it will never be left behind.

[@toothyweasel2705]

Dowsy became DbDs first supervillain in response tot hem removing those items lmao

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

he is a founding member of Milkyway cheats 😂😂😂😂

[@KichewGaming]

I'd love to see the hook change. If you get penalized for being good at looping (tunneled out), and subsequently go against worse and worse killers (who don't know to go for the weaker link/drop chase), new players, learn that getting kills is the goal, by any means. They get tunnel vision and chase for the whole game, then proxy hook to make sure the survivor dies, if they don't they feel crappy -points/those meaningless metrics, net loss of mmr. Majority of the time when I run a killer for just a single gen, they tunnel me out. I mean I get it, but that's largely due to them being kill hungry and not wanting their mmr to go down/'lose'. A few losses later and now the killer just does not quit, and you can tell they're a baby killer, and it just doesn't feel good, it's basically like the killer bot, i mean they're new and you're 500+hrs what can u expect it's not a challenge. Don't give them a kill, they take that frustration into their next game, maybe basement camp, more fun extinguished. Give them a kill it's just causing another problem. Killers letting hiders live/sparing people push those players where they don't belong, making the higher mmr players have to deal with games where people should not be in. So so so many issues, root of the problem is most likely the kills = + mmr | escapes = - mmr | die = - mmr | escape = + mmr Playing killer is not fun when you have to use these boring builds, just to not have the gens be rushed super quickly, or just need super meta perks every single game. I legit feel obligated to run corrupt, dms, grim embrace every game to have time to start the actual interaction and not have it be a hide & seek/gen simulator. And when playing survivor, well, if I want to go up in mmr, most likely a combination of anti-tunnel, distortion/lucky break, lose killer build. Or if I don't care about losing mmr at the time, I'll run a looping build, but it's so stale either way. dh, ds, sw, bond. Feeling like I need kindred every game or my 1st hook is my 2nd. A thousand plus essay could not likely fully describe every issue that is caused by the metrics they are using.

[@assassinfan4735]

Wow, well said! You explained both sides frustrations fairly. Yeah, I'll be honest I am Huntress main. I run Lethal Purseuer, Bbq and chili, Darkness Revealed, and Bitter Murmur. The build gives me good early game pressure, lets me go for snipes, and snowball. I don't run slow downs since they feel too weak and boring to use. So, I hate the fact I feel like I have to tunnel every game just so I can win. I used to not tunnel and kept losing as a result. So now I have to when I don't want to. By the way I have over a thousand hours in this game.

[@magical571]

@@assassinfan4735 " So now I have to when I don't want to" Well, no, that's one of the many points the op is making when they say "new players, learn that getting kills is the goal, by any means". If you are aware of this, and feel like still tunneling to get kills by any means, instead of thinking about it and taking a diferent aproach, then you are aware of the issue and choosing to keep doing it of your own will. Also, i have to say, i've seen that huntress build a lot in my matches, and i've yet to see one get actual use from it beyond placebo. It's more of a meme, specially if anyone has distorssion, off the record or shadowstep.

[@magical571]

i'll say this though, sometimes i purposefuly go for that chase just to see if i can beat them lol. it helps to get better. but i get your point, it's true that they should drop earlier if they actually want to win. i have some mixed feelings about tunneling the weak one out though...like, tunneling, wether it's the weak or the strong one, shouldn't really be encouraged. what's the point in that meg playing if she gets to load in and just hang on one hook after another, it doesn't actually teach anything without external help and some actual time to put it into practice (and survivors can't practice on their own on custom matches, which only makes it worse if they want to try out a perk or a loop etc). I am aware that it is the strongest strategy, but it leaves a sour taste, and as a killer i just feel like i'm bullying a new player out of the game honestly. Bringing grim embrace has helped me win my games while spreading hooks at least for the first 3 hooks without losing all gens, i like perks like that, i wish there were more. Technically pain res should encourage something similar, but it's way less impactful in stopping tunneling, there's no "big reward" at four hooks like with grim embrace, and with the rng of hook placement and unpredictable factors like sabo, make it so you can't reliably count on something "good" coming out of spreading your downs. Only grim embrace genuinly encourages you to....please, more perks like that...

[@mckenzieschmitt2841]

Yep, the killer farms with everyone else after they kill the P100 near that looked them for three gems because it’s toxic to loot the killer. I also had a killer say they only killed me because I was “toxic”. There was no BM at any point during the game. Would you like to know what I did that was so bad? That’s right I got a flashlight saying on a teammate. Get killed by my teammates nine out of 10 games and solo and the killer “hump “me as if they did something like this. Idiot stood in my way you really think you did this ?

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

Who tf is reading all This 😂

[@undertalealex1812]

You can see how much developers care for the game, when they can't take criticism, very rarely listen to community and now hackers can ban normal people playing the game.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

💯 for bringing up the false bans, keep spreading the message

[@otsugua77]

and now trickster has a bug that can cause seisures and they say they don't have any reports of such bug xd

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

Most killer mains agree with the devs. They will do the same shhh then be like, I won, I got a 3-5 K, what did you do? Ummm I looped you for 4 gens…. But I have NOED and rancor and got 3K so obviously I’m more skilled than you all. Gg ez 🤓.

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

Even the ppl saying kills doesn’t mean skill, you proxy and tunneled and had NOED. Killer mains will say “I don’t play by your rules”, I’m more skilled, I got 3-4 k and won. Gg ez. 🤓

[@otsugua77]

@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN omg you again!! And still with illogical and shhh takes

[@DarkMedic11]

Man both Dowsy and SpaceCoconut were two wild stories to see play out years ago

[@SirBlasian411]

Wait, what happened with Space Coconut? I haven’t heard that name is years.

[@Boss24601]

@@SirBlasian411I haven’t either but I feel like he may have been my first introduction to dbd? (Besides SSundee wayyy back in the day. Holy fuck I was young). Looking now the first thumbnail i see seems to be AI sooo, I assume nothing good happened.

[@viciousveras1648]

@@Boss24601 I remember after he stopped Dbd he did some Satisfactory videos, but after that, can't answer much

[@yourikhan4425]

@@SirBlasian411 He went to other games. e.g. VHS (yes, poor choice in insight)

[@Hatecrewdethrol]

space coconut started doing all that cringe "anti-woke/pro-trump" shit so he kinda shot himself in the foot

[@Rambone1978]

Tru has been right about the game for so long, but people just hate him 😭

[@cringelord3342]

Fr people picking on him without ever hearing his opinion

[@BobbyCarHater]

he is speaking the truth, even though he is hard to understand through his bri'ish accent

[@TheSteeltec]

His opinions on game design and balance are alright, does not mean he is a likeable person and does and says extremely abrasive and not technically mean but just very aggravating things. And being an unlikeable person unfortunately means people tend to just block you out and not listen, which is his own fault.

[@PinkCattleya]

He speaks a lot of facts and ppl hate the truth and that’s what gets him hated, he’s not afraid to speak 🗣️

[@Rambone1978]

@@TheSteeltec if you watch him as much as I have you realize he’s actually just a chill dude who gives his opinions sometimes.

[@mansnotprot1544]

The game being centered around Hooks would be such an overwhelming improvement to the gameplay experience it is unbelievable. The fact the game revolves around Kills and all the shit they have given Survivors inorder to keep them alive is crazy. I legit hate having to hard tunnel two players just to get a draw or win.

[@Azarath415]

Or at least kills AND hooks. Kills are find I think but if there was more added to it such as hook states as well, I think the game would be a bit better. It's insane how some ppl get lucky and get a 3-4K a few games in a row and then they get paired with ppl way above their skill level

[@FemboyKaiSaku]

i never have to tunnel really unless i've made my own mistakes that costed the game people saying they have to tunnel or its impossible to win is crazy

[@atmodlee]

Well you’ve gotta think if survivors instantly die or died as easily as killers seem to want, where is the incentive to play that role? No one would play it-a la death garden (dead game with similar premise to DBD), evolve (dead game with similar premise to SBD), etc. like you have to make the weaker role somehow attractive to players because nobody wants to basically be your human toy for a murder simulator.

[@OrdellRob]

Skill issue.

[@in00yasha]

The biggest problem I had playing killer was trying to earn iridescent badges during my games for the bloodbonds, but the badges didn’t reflect how the game was meant to be played so if I DIDNT get all hooks i don’t earn more but if I do go for those extra hooks then I’m at risk of losing the game/kills Truetalent had a lot of change suggestions that basically said fix your badges or gameplay so they match and I agreed with him on most of his suggestions (that I heard). Edit: I’ve been playing so much Hunt Showdown that I don’t even remember the currency dbd uses anymore, I also haven’t played the game since 4th anniversary either.

[@TheOnlyChoy]

It seems like a simple solution to Kills VS Hooks would be at the very least, a built in way to reward killers who go for multiple hooks over focusing kills. Right now you're actively punished as a killer for not focusing kills which is horrible game design. Great job on the video btw.

[@CoconutRTS]

Aye! Glad you liked it Choy! This is one of those problems that have been bubbling for a couple years now, just hope they're able to wake up to see the impact it's having on the game

[@MCDLXXXVIII_]

Tru3 will continue being trashed on, and he will continue to end up the correct side of most DBD arguments.

[@fliersyDBD]

He is living rentfree in the head of half of the community! 😂

[@redsledgeblu5234]

Hard agree

[@neat24]

who is tru3?

[@QuietMan81]

Not this one, though.

[@breni1518]

Poor coconut. Bout to loose his twitch shirts because of the video 😢

[@Nickool4u]

You can also be a basement Skull Merchant. A drone can be placed towards the bottom of the basement stairs, then the middle of shack, and then setup a perimeter around shack. Either the survivors take their time crouch walking to basement to save, or disarm the drones which alerts me that they are going for the unhook. The add-on that makes the drone rotation speed faster, and increases the hinderance by another 3% really hurts.

[@chapface]

Plz lets not have people send even more hate towards Skull Merchant lol

[@GeneralForster]

More proof of skull merchant being a mistake in literally every aspect. Gameplay, character design, even her backstory. There isn't a single good thing about this killer being in the game.

[@Nickool4u]

@@GeneralForsterI mean… is it any different from Basement Trapper and Hag? At least with Skull Merchant you can actually leave shack, or at least the one who has endurance 😂

[@GeneralForster]

@@Nickool4u idk why you're changing the subject

[@jonathann4813]

This is some bs only anon skull merchants would do

[@krugozor3904]

What a legend Thanks to Dowsey the game of hockey will never be the same

[@mattavenson7542]

Dowsey was always right about this issue. BHVR just can't handle the fact that they worked on MMR for ages and implemented it with fatal flaws in it's logic that were obvious to us because we look at things objectively from a "can I exploit that?" And from a "Can other players exploit this against me?" Perspective that only the players have, developers live in a bubble of thinking players will play the way they want them to but that's just not how online multiplayer games work, ever.

[@NameIsDoc]

It’s basic psychology. The moment someone measures a single metric in a society the society learns to game the system. For instance in the 1980s several hospitals decided to measure the ranking of surgeons by the success rate of their surgeries. Those with higher rankings got better pay. Which makes sense right? Those who have the most successful surgeries would be the most skillful thus deserving of higher pay. However as you can probably tell it didn't work out well. Easier and cheaper surgery was flooded with surgeons while more difficult expensive surgery like brain or spinal were abondoned. The hospitals lost money and talent and patients with curable but difficult conditions died. Many hospitals who invested in this idea did not drop it until the early 00s Dbd is doing something similar when they already had a great system in place with the emblem/pip system

[@NameIsDoc]

@@mattavenson7542 exactly you could Gen rush, or camp pig boxes or whatever but you'd likely depip and derank. However if you run the killer, do a Gen, save a teammate, stealth past a killer, heal a teammate, take a protection hit for a teammate you'd get 4 pips even if you sacrificed yourself to save the rest of the team. And as killer you could camp and secure a kill but likely loose a pip vs finding survivors, breaking destructables, getting a grab, kicking gens, using your killer power, hooking survivors, going after fresh meat, finishing a chase quickly and even if all four escaped you'd have full pips. Every single person no matter what seeks to optimize their life to require the shortest process for the greatest progress. However dbd has an opportunity to learn from the best games whom have made playing suboptimal the optimal. Devil may cry is an er example. If you want to beat the game hitless it isn't too difficult. Most mooks in the game can be taken out with little risk. However a large facet of dmc is a ranking system that uses the other sub optimal moves to increase your score and the risk of messing up in the game. The old pip system is that style meter and the new k/d system is the anthisis of that

[@mattavenson7542]

@@NameIsDoc Definitely, it's weird how they have a solid concept for match making yet decided to go for one that promotes the worst part of the game. If they switched it back to the old system tomorrow, no one would complain about it in the long run. A minor tweak to it here or there could be argued, but there's just no reason to have thrown out that well tailored solution to this very asymmetrical game specific problem.

[@mattavenson7542]

Absolutely the older system was much more accurate at determining whether or not a win was won by skill or by cheesing the system. It's painful to think they threw away a mostly working system for this scrap pile of code they call MMR.

[@michaelfinklea9295]

You can't forget about camping Xenomorph. Their hitboxes were so big that you can stand directly in front of a hook and prevent anyone from saving, since you were too big. I've been against multiple Xenos who've done that when the chapter got released.

[@VitunVatiVille]

Did the xenomorph need to be standing or crouching or does that work either way?

[@shawnrankin6708]

Sounds like you suck at hockey

[@excelsword1376]

It's telling that Otzdarva is one of the only content creators I have seen Tru3 interact with positively. Otz is one of the few content creators who is actually respectful to him and doesn't take Tru3's opinions as attacks on Otz himself.

[@getshulked3569]

Patrick, Almo and Peanits have always been the fucking cancer of this game. I was never a huge Dowsey fan but it was undeniable he was on the right track about all his arguments. Smart guy who got wronged for exposing BHVR’s cement headed logic.

[@MikeOTR]

What did peanits even do? He's a community manager not a game dev

[@getshulked3569]

@@MikeOTR mainly shut down important discussions just because they don’t align with BHVR’s fantasy world.

[@MikeOTR]

@@getshulked3569 if you work for a company, you'll get paid to say what they want you to say. Don't blame him for working and keeping his boss happy. From my experience he's a chill dude

[@getshulked3569]

@@MikeOTR he’s a gimp. His job is keeping the community civil and safe, not pushing one single viewpoint in a so called “discussion forum.” You can be a good cm and be neutral aka allow people to voice their opinion.

[@getshulked3569]

@@MikeOTR man’s got no backbone though, he’s a gimp. You can be a good CM and also be neutral aka let people voice their opinions in a so called “discussion forum.”

[@xDianarox]

I like how you summarized this and made it easy to understand. I saw like 2 of dowseys videos back in the day and had no idea what was going on lmao

[@robotsidekick]

I've watched your channel slowly become an essay format and I gotta say: This is your best one yet. Fantastic work.

[@kimikothetanuki314]

This situation was so bad that I had slowly stopped playing dbd until I have completely stopped.

[@danielorlovaquinn]

Same i switched to idv do much more fun

[@roccoon9892]

Same

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

Most killer mains agree with the devs. They will do the same shhh then be like, I won, I got a 3-5 K, what did you do? Ummm I looped you for 4 gens…. But I have NOED and rancor and got 3K so obviously I’m more skilled than you all. Gg ez 🤓.

[@jackytris2874]

This was a crazy well produced video with some banger editing. Great job coco

[@sonysdad4709]

Finally a video highlighting what true has been trying to say for literal years instead of just shitting on him and disregarding it.

[@jasiah1154]

Yeah pretty much it’s sad I think most people would agree with tru more than disagree if they just actually watched his content. Instead of grabbing clips and hating on him just because it’s the funny thing to do ig I never understood it. He isent perfect you might not like all of his takes but he doesn’t deserve to be ostracized in the dbd community. Everyone has there bad takes and people aren’t going to agree with every point someone makes which is okay.

[@neutralasswitz3192]

True

[@liandre9035]

yeah honestly with the amount of Shit that people like true and also Choy have to take for their GOOD ideas i kinda feel like this community deserves these devs and vice versa. Ofc anyone is allowed to have their own opinion but also anyone is crying about the balance of the game all the time, people make suggestions that are actually good and these fools give the devs ammunition to ignore it by going after these ideas. Coconut somehow dodges bigger debates around his persona, which is good. He had some takes which i disagreed with (not in this video) but overall he amongst other dbd youtubers exactly knows what would be better for the game 100%. BHVR however is BHVR, its not a new story and it will never get better until either we get a diffrent developer or a (propper) competitor to DBD releases.

[@anap1680]

True is a punk who cries constantly No one should take that clown seriously

[@danielorlovaquinn]

​@@jasiah1154 its more that true is an asshole

[@ScarNoobXD]

I sure cannot wait to check Twitter after this

[@nooamalka4283]

Tru3 was right all along

[@NameIsDoc]

They hated him because he told the truth

[@Doncroft1]

​@@NameIsDoc He comes across as smug and close-minded, but Tru3 often makes very good points.

[@NameIsDoc]

@@Doncroft1 an unfortunate stereotype of his accent. If you listen to what he says you'd find he's pretty open minded on everything but his opinion. And he has been hounded for so long on his views he has a right to be a little smug.

[@Doncroft1]

@NameIsDoc Whenever he reacts to patch notes, he always assumes most things are nerfs to killer, even when that's not always the case. His reaction to the Knight and Singularity changes recently, for instance. I'm not hating on him. Sincerely. But he definitely speaks with a strong killer bias and a good dose of pessimism.

[@NameIsDoc]

@@Doncroft1 can you blame him? 90% of the time it is killers have been getting Nerf after Nerf after Nerf after Nerf meanwhile, survivors get even faster ways to rush or vault or extend Chase even further with minimal effort. And most of knights changes are a significant Nerf to his most popular play style . The singularity Got some buffs that make them easier but also intern lost some high-level stuff that nerfs some of his skill ceiling.

[@stevenobrien7686]

MMR is the single worst part of this game. No MMR on the anni event made me realize that.

[@doomguypsx4471]

Ya know Coconut, i really liked that moment of inspiration at the end and for that, i think I'll act on my vision while hoping for the best. Hope you had fun making the video, because the Dowsey section was a blast from the past, although, i missed the hooks vs kills discussion, so thank you for the informative part on that end of the spectrum, same with Almo. Hope you're having a good day and I'll be staying with your channel more than ever

[@elitedragoon6484]

I remember this. So my 2k hours on Billy, mastering every curve spot, hit box, and lopro flicks isn't skilled if I didn't win and 4k

[@keltonschleyer6367]

You are bad, obv

[@pugstriker]

you clearly didnt play enough hockey

[@shepotinnya]

Bro I always have so much respect for Billies I play against who try fun things and curve me into oblivion even if then end up getting 0 kills I always wanna give them a kill or meme with them

[@elitedragoon6484]

@shepotinnya see, you get it. I love Billy's as well, who do that to me. Much love. I played Billy for so long, like since 2017, and fell in love with him and When I found out about all that tech and curves. I became a Billy only player for two years, spending 100h in kill your friends with a buddy, practicing. Now I play him on and off and branch to other killers.

[@elitedragoon6484]

@@pugstriker yeah, true. I never was a goalie. I'm a pitcher in baseball.

[@TMFUncharted]

I’m convinced the devs were kids who got bullied at school because taking away a twitch shirt because of someone’s opinion and then saying targeting a dev has to be the most “I can’t handle anything because I was bullied in school but now I have power” energy ever

[@olddutchy4889]

The devs are a bunch of kids.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

21:00 Skull Merchant motivating Dowsy to DC from the entire game is hilarious.

[@Thischemicalfire]

This is the video I didn't know I needed but loved every second of it. Thanks!

[@chadkensington7953]

“Dowsey was a hero, I just couldn’t see it “

[@speetermaan]

Coconut’s storytelling is unmatched within this community

[@el_doinko]

I was never a huge fan of Dowsey but this video was goated and will always be a classic in my eyes

[@TricksterSquad]

I remember this whole story arc happening in real time. It’s why I took a year + break from DBD. I honestly thought I’d never return because the game was getting so stale (from the reasons stated in the video). I’m only back now but because I thought I’d give DBD a second chance and I’m still seeing how that’s going. I thought Otzdarva was correct about “kills at the end of the game determines who won”. But that didn’t ever mean True Talent was wrong. The game should ALWAYS be BALANCED around hooks, which give the best context on what happened in the game without looking at all the nitty gritty details in every game. But of course at the end of the game killers want to see 3k with maybe a couple more hooks on the chart or a 4k. This doesn’t mean I want the game balanced around it though. More hooks for balancing = more interesting ways to get the hooks/kills, leading to more diverse & fun playstyles/perks. But more kills for balancing = more stale annoying guaranteed win playstyles/perks. TLDR: DBD royally fucked up their game with terrible balancing decisions. If they had only listened to their player base and given them what they wanted, then this would’ve never happened. I can only hope maybe if DBD tries to do better over a long period of time, maybe they’ll gain back a little trust and respect they destroyed, and players might possibly return. Otherwise, the game will die.

[@Zxaparts]

i quit dbd after 3 months when dowsey quit guy tried to appeal on how they should make the game more fun but they ignore him, guy sacrifice himself so that the dev see what the people want

[@ahnkor]

I never intended to stop playing DBD, but I slowly did, and the last time I played happened to also be between a couple months of when Dowsey quit DBD too, coincidence?

[@Zxaparts]

@@ahnkor for 2 years now i sometimes watch vids like this on dbd but i still cant find the spark that made me want to return

[@km077]

Some could say Dowsey was a messiah.😭

[@JustWhy-69]

Finally someone pointing out these strat! About damn time! 😭

[@sylexe1]

When they changed the survivour movement and nothing wrong with old movement I knew this game was over for most people. It's never been as fun as it used to be. After that update killers could hit you from 1miles away. Looking at this game now and im proud of myself for quitting this game Good luck playing dead by daylight

[@11Ender11]

Was nice seeing true and dowsey get some much needed respect put on their names. Just for once

[@zoff.him1]

The “don’t hate the player, hate the game” brings a whole different meaning when saying it in dbd. Like when I hear this I always think about that one teammate not being a true teammate. Istg like this is what makes escapes so rare in dbd Imo. Just play killer if your not going to contribute to a single thing. Like it makes me mad when they my teammates do this. This is why I dont like playing survivor. I also bring support builds but they find a way to still not contribute. Also what’s more sad than your own game dying is you killing your own game

[@trixzzar]

Thanks for this video. this whole sbmm stuff happened in my break from dbd and i had so many friends that stopped playing because of it and i never realy understood why. You showed me the reason and i want to thank you for that. i hope one day the devs see this and change the system to a new one so everybody can enjoy the game like i used to back in 2016-2020. and creators like you might make this possible. youre great. please never change!

[@BaYon-k5u]

Say about True what you want. But you cant deny that he is one (Like Dowsey) of the only people who always realiuzed what a fun dbd would need.

[@kaymace94]

god damn, im loving this kind of videos coconut, keep it up

[@Dontaexy]

No one bringing up how true was SUPER right and probably still is, is kinda crazy.

[@rabbidguarddog]

Thanks gor making this video Coconut. I remember when all that drama was happening and a lot on content creators didnt even wanna talk about. I dont even think it wasnt anything against dowsey i think they didnt want to get retaliated against either.

[@Skelington]

In my opinion, the answer of "Hooks vs. Kills" should really be a bit of both. A kill is more impressive than a hook, even if it took only one hook to get that kill. However, a kill which took three hooks should reward more to the player's skill than a kill which took only one hook. I suppose a good way to summarize it would be to make points system where each hook and kill are one point. Under this system, a 4k with 4 hooks would be worth 8 points, one for each hook and kill. This is equivalent to a 0k with 8 hooks which also gives you 8 points. With the max number of points being 16, I'd consider 8 points to be the plateau point where you neither gain nor lose mmr. Obviously this is a very rough explanation which hasn't been properly tested, and I don't think this would necessarily stop killers from using lame strategies, but it would heavily reward those who played in more fun ways and succeeded.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

Good idea; Bloodpoints should also reflect this. It’s goofy that each re-hook only gives 500 BP aside from the stage transition. Could be more.

[@Derakon_]

And out of malice, and not wanting the killer to win/get points, survivors will kill themselves on hook far more frequently, which is already a problem at the moment. It's a very good idea, but it creates more problems, sadly.

[@doin10hitcombos]

The fact that this is a legitimate concern is just.... Wow ​@@Derakon_

[@bmg50barrett74]

Coconut out here making top tier documentaries about our silly little game. Get this man an Oscar.

[@guppywithaglock3550]

I stopped playing Dead by Daylight a while ago because I foresaw this nonsense. Having a game (that already has a very competitive playerbase already) have matchmaking and developer-encouraged playstyles that highly encourage going for kills and not playing through hookstages and chases, the game becomes extremely boring and toxic. I played like 6-10 matches on every killer, at relatively high mmr (been stuck since the change to SBMM), and each game played out extremely similar. The survivors were prepared to never give me a hook, whilst speeding through gens and effectively cooperating until they left the exit gate. I got a kill or two here and there, but a lot of the games where I played with the mentality of going for chases, and playing the long and older playstyle of DBD brought little to no actual results, in accordance to SBMM. Why is it that I don't get rewarded for having fun, and I get rewarded for playing a very boring game of "kick the gen" (which you can't do anymore, since they made a limit to the amount of times you can kick a gen before it blocks all regression attempts)? The dev team won't ever change now. Changing the game now would only mean that they were not right about their game from the start. And don't you dare tell them that they don't know their game either, because that's not "exemplary behaviour". Also, the fact that he simply quoted Patrick, and everybody replying to his tweet was the reason that Dowsey got his stuff removed was the dumbest thing, ever. Not even a civil discussion nor even asking the community what they thought, just going live on stream and telling people that how they have been playing the game was wrong.

[@shawnt5205]

he did not quote patrick lol. that was not a direct quote.

[@magical571]

you know, i agree with you, though as a sidenote, whenever someone talks confidently about their mmr being high, i raise an eyebrow since it's a number you can't neither confirm nor deny. i can say right here i'm number one worlwide and you cannot prove me wrong and i cannot show any evidence either lol. I feel like anyone who isn't newish or particularly humble will say they are "high mmr" wjen that can mean anything from mid road decent to actual god, but that mmr braket in practice in the game has a super low ceiling were you no longer get any changes on who you go against, and you can't actually know which braket you are in either, besides being outside of the one reserved for zero hours players. so you have the decently good, the great, the masters and the gods all mixed in one braket lol, and none of them have any reciepts to prove one way or another. Not even that they are indeed in that braket. hell, not even going against someone who's a figure means much, since the game prioritizes queue time, and as i said, beyond the one braket reserved for new players, there are only two other brakets....and i insist, you don't even get to see where exactly you are at either lol- On top of that, when people say "high mmr" do they mean they get a lot of kills/escapes? or that they feel that they play in a "skill expressive manner"? or do they make a mental mixture of both? But there's also a contradiction in your own statement, losing 1 to 10 matches on several killers means what, at least 40 losses if you played four killers? by definition you won't be at a "reasonably high mmr" by doing that, you'll tank, even if you feel like you are high mmr because of the skill/efficiency your survivors are showing. And what do you mean by a loss? because the only thing counting as a loss for a killer is gettin 0 or 1 kill. a draw is 2 kills, for mmr purposes. it counts as a draw for the killer's mmr. 3 is a win, and 4 is the bigger win of course. But i see most killers if not all, treating a 2k as a loss, which, it may FEEL like that, but if we are talking mmr, it isn't, it's a net neutral. I don't know, i just feel like any statements made about mmr that involve assuming which level you are at or you are going against, are very questionable, for multiple reasons, i just listed some of them.

[@BirdiePlaysYT]

God i hate lydia and two other mods on dbd... They're so up their own asses that they don't understand anything or care about their playerbase. My looping bestie got banned last month because she told someone to drop dead AFTER THEY TOLD HER TO HANG in the end game chat for being LGBT after tunneling her out for it. He reported her and she him. The devs banned her instead. As someone who was there and saw it all unfold....i think they both should have been banned permanently. Her for her multiple infractions, and that guy for his anti lgbt.

[@thepyroguy1230]

1 popular person = everyone's opinion

[@Mulamos8408]

What I was thinking 😂

[@olddutchy4889]

Some people rather stay blind then facing the facts and the truth. Typical sheeple behaviour 😂. Besides it was not 1 person complaining but 4. Counting also seems hard i guess 😂

[@Mulamos8408]

@@olddutchy4889 hi

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

You must be killer main. Survivor mains have been saying what this obese gentlemen said for years. Kills don’t equal skills but killer mains don’t wanna hear that. Most killer mains agree with the devs. They will do the same shhh then be like, I won, I got a 3-4 K, what did you do? Ummm I looped you for 4 gens…. But I have NOED and rancor and got 3K so obviously I’m more skilled than you all. Gg ez 🤓.

[@mr_cyberbob]

This was a very good analysis. When I play survivor I most often play against killers with the Kills = Skills mindset who do everything in their power to get a 4K. When I play killer I don't tunnel/slug/camp. I hook someone, maybe come back to hook of they unhooked quickly, and down the next person. In the end I accept whatever the outcome is. And interestingly enough: I made it to iridescend ranks in a pretty short amount of time, even though I'm not a killer main nor extremely skilled! Now in iri ranks i don't get rewarded for that playstyle. I rarely even get two kills. What I'm trying to say is: the game is fun when both sides are having fun.

[@SilentNoob_]

Honestly bro all y'all dbd creators gotta just stop. Just stop playing the game at this point

[@olddutchy4889]

They should yeah.. the most fun has been taken away.

[@SoUlBrO1612]

For a whole year straight, i only played by my rule of "always hook all 4 survivors 2 time to have them all dead onhook" but not with mentality of having easier time on end game where i can kill any survivor that i find. The main reason is that i want to match be long and more fun as possible, and it often leads to me losing with 4 man escape with 4 or 6 hooks and people sometimes be toxic in endgame chat saying that im bad and should uninstall, but in matches where i manage to get all 8 hooks before last gen or even after last gen, i always let them all leave cuz i find that i already win and might aswell just let them have they're part of the fun, not including the time that they were running from me in the first place. But sometimes i make exeptions and still do a 4k, but mostly if the survivor team was equally skilled compared to me and i have a hard time playing against them in a good way, then i finnish the job, or just when survivors are toxic from the start and they trying to bully more then just to play normaly. So, to sum it up after watching this video, i guess i unintentionally was playing like it was more of skill = hooks mentality, and because of that, i see that even after i hardly stomp the survivor team and live them no chace and after letting them out with 8 hooks in my pocket, i get more unskilled and freshly starting survivors that i stomp even more easly because SBMM is assuming that even if i have 8 hooks, and everyone escaped it's count as massive lose and i should play agains someone that as bad as me. Fair time we live in...

[@hamleteagle534]

Speaking of killers running the same build, I can't believe they brought back the Unbreakable + DS Meta back from several years ago. It's like nothing was learned thus far. DS + Unbreakable + Off the Record + Flex Perk. Good luck in that match with 4 survivors running the same build or at least 2 of these perks each.

[@CookiePanda]

But let's ask an honest question: Why use other perks? The devs destroy so many things for survs and killers. Of course, both sides then only use the strong things. Fun is no longer allowed in the game.

[@fredward_3713]

Gee, I wonder why people like to run anti slug and tunnel perks, almost as if you would see it almost every second game, weird

[@OrdellRob]

Skill issue.

[@NameIsDoc]

@@fredward_3713 it’s almost the same as survivors, running generator, rush perks. Boy it’s such a good thing that killers have actual regression to counteract that. Oh wait that was taken away from them. Well, at least they can play an information built. Oh wait that’s also taken away from them. Well, at least they can put DB on the survivor so they can be more confused in their actions the most common way to play the game, which is with discord active, so that you can circumvent all misinformation is a thing. Well, gee what other play styles are there? The reason why tunneling and slugging are so popular right now is because it’s the only way they can play and get any sort of consistency out of it.

[@nsreturn1365]

every game is this now, in a meta where you have to tunnel or loose but everyone has 4 health states its gets tiring fast.

[@noahturner7908]

I love how you're doing videos that explain and show the history of dbd. Nobody else that I know is doing this kind of content and you do it in such an attention grabbing way. So far I am loving this kind of content

[@evilgod5666]

as much as I didn't like Dowsey, for them to remove his Twitch shirt was complete childish

[@olddutchy4889]

Some adults never become an adult. Patrick is a great example. 😅

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

For reals. The fat man is annoying but he spoke some truths but for them to do that shhh. Like what 💀💀💀💀

[@Ren-The-Potato-Dragon]

Thank You Coconut For being the Catalyst that brought Dowsey back to DBD ( He said so in a Twitch Stream - I will try and leave a Link for the Clip in a separate Message - If it gets blocked just search Dowsey's Twitch Clips ) - I don't even Main DBD Since TCM and Tekken 8 Came out - But this is still a Momentous Act imo - Well Done Coconut :) BTW what does RTS stand for ?

[@Ren-The-Potato-Dragon]

clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveHeadstrongWerewolfSuperVinlin-UgxSyVeEzLVfmldW

[@EepyPandi]

love the chapters being called ".txt" and ".mp4" thats actually giving some life to the video, not like it needs more

[@Dragonbro91_]

Finally another banger. Can't wait for your next docu video. The passion and honesty truly shines through.

[@TheRen1403]

Awesome video Coco! But you forgot to add what you did to Pinhead!🤣🤣

[@JPDD2]

This applies to every single game nowadays. Things get ruined as soon as they spread the word of what they use.

[@Yumadbro_]

find it funny that it took multiple years for the anti camp feature to be added,

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

Killer mains cried that it was a play style

[@prod.wwreeechh9314]

It still sucks tho. 99% of the time they just proxy and watch from 17 meters away and then trade hooks with whoever goes for unhook, or they tunnel out one person.

[@KirbyBot69]

Bro went from Kicking Ass on DBD to Kicking Ass on Video Editing lmfaoooooo, love it

[@AwakenedBelngs]

I've not played in like 5 months because every match is the same on both sides it isn't fun anymore to play, I still love watching others play it though they make it look fun.

[@KlausCiocannis]

We didn't know we had it all until it was gone. I miss Dowsey, truly. And what he did for the game's balance and him trying to make the game fun again for everyone is something deserving of huge respect. Thank you Dowsey and CoconutRTS

[@DillonMeyer]

I only play killer. Actually 0 minutes survivor. Been playing since before Nurse's release. My favorite playstyle has turned into a "kills" playstyle, but not for a decisive victory or mmr or whatever. It's for one single goal: Moris. I play nearly every match with my sole intention to directly kill survivors with Rancor, or their built-in direct kill like Pig trap, Pyramid Head execute, or Onryo heart attack. I worry only about the first hook on each survivor, meaning everyone gets a chance to run around with me at least once, and then after everyone's been hooked once, it's anything goes until Endgame. For me, Endgame is prime time and when the match REALLY begins. My build on all killers is: No Way Out. Game Afoot. Rancor. Lightborn (or otherwise a variable perkslot available for any other perk) This rewards me for skilled play in downing each survivor, and rewards further for doing so quickly. The less I chase any individual survivor, the easier it is to change obsession in Endgame and force a direct kill with Rancor. The more first hooks I get, the more time I have to work with to potentially get more than one Rancor. On average, it's a little more than two a game if hook kills are completely forgotten about. Sometimes it's one or even none, and rarely it's a full four mori game. It's super fun to play this way, and I recommend it.

[@chapface]

Honestly sounds hella based I respect it

[@in00yasha]

@@DillonMeyer I really enjoy pyramid head for his kit. I’m a broke boi so I gotta farm hooks and kill survivors somehow and he was introduced at the perfect time. Need uninterrupted hooks? No problem, Need to kill survivors too huh? Guess what you have a guaranteed mori on last hook! Have fun 😂

[@rpg1497]

it's kind of the only direction we have left to go that's still fun

[@art4fools]

@Dowsey was the reason i got into DBD. He made great content and made great videos and plays which get used today (hardcore) they really messed up those devleopers and should understand that content creators made this game what it is today. Hope you good Dowsey

[@La_False]

Idk if this is a hot take but i don’t think the devs listen to content creators, my reasoning is that bc they don’t listen to otz why would they listen to anyone else?

[@ChaosRevealsOrder]

Neither Patrick or Dowsey got what they wanted, there is a solution ... altho it would take extensive research and dev time. Changing the escape condition with a point based system that rates your performance and gives you in match buffs as rewards would be the way to go. This would transfer the game into a more arcade variant so we should have some community research first, see if folks would like it. But imagine this, this system calculats everything, the power level of the killer and addons, if you survive in chase long without dropping pallets, etc and then you get rewarded with buffs or pallet respawn ability. On the killer side, depending on performance you could get the ability to insta mori, etc. We need to start testing random fun ideas.

[@tomatoes100]

Um the twins change was before dowseys vid. Which is why he keeps switching from vic to Charlotte. Lawyered.

[@broccolite8297]

While you're correct, just making sure we're on the same page when I say this. His point was that they only wanted to justify their previous claims by changing the game to fit their narrative after Patrick's statement.

[@auroral8260]

This makes it worse lol, they couldn't even 'fix' the strategy

[@inexturnal4138]

Just make survivors have universal hook stages. Say, for example, once 4 survivors have been hooked, the entity powers up and the fifth hook is a sacrifice. This would include every survivor in the trial as the killer's objective which would result in all survivors getting a chance at chase and tunneling would no longer exist.

[@TurkishD_lite]

One question the community needs to answer with hooks vs kills is what do they want a balanced hook game to be. If you still want 2 kills with hooks then a balanced game is anywhere between 6 or 10 hooks, however only 2 survivors get targetted. Ideally you would want a 10 hook game where everyone interacts with everyone. So they would need to add a proper anti tunnel. I would even make it such that survivors share hook states. Once the killer gets 8 hooks the next hook is a kill. Meaning if the killer wants to tunnel they would have to hook that survivor 8 times just to kill them. Now we have a game where the killer is strong but has to play "fair", and the survivors have the strategies to deal with this built in. I think people would prefer 10 hook 2 kill games rather than 6 hook 2 kill games. Of course the devs would have to either A. Buff killers or B. Nerf loops a bit such that killer can actually get 10 hooks in the time it takes for 5 gens and the exit gate. As currently we can all talk from experience that against equally skilled players you often don't get the time to get 10 hooke unless you stall the game a ton (which again leads to unfun stuff)

[@atmodlee]

The issue here is that let’s say the killer tunnels one person down 8 times, the next survivor goes down once and instantly dies with zero consent in this. And it doesn’t even factor in moris or slugging. No other PvP game forces random players to share a pool of limited lives-for good reason.

[@TurkishD_lite]

@@atmodlee That is true but I feel that Dbd could make it work. Imagine a killer who will not adapt being hit with 8 Decisive strikes and off the records. The other survivors will just slam gens. This idea for a asymmetrical game would punish the tunneling but reward a healthier game. If the devs realise that the average killer cannot get 8 hooke before 5 gens then the devs know that they need to look at key aspects of the game.

[@liandre9035]

The answer is in the game alredy, 12 hooks gives a HUGE amount of BP (to both sides because these games wont be done in under 5 minutes). I would vote for 12 hook target, maybe you wont get it too often, but so is 4k not meant to be a regular thing whith the hatch spawning. It doesnt advocate tunneling or camping, doesnt advocate 3-genning. It would solve much of the sweatyness that BHVR has teached killer players and probably also swap over to survivors because most people actually do play both sides, the loud minority is caught in all the tribalism.

[@liandre9035]

@@atmodlee If the hooks are the main goal, tunneling is unneccessary. It wont change it, cause if you get 3 hooks from one person and then 2 from someone else, or if you have like 1, 1, 2, 1 hook states, its both 5 hookstates which grant the same amount of progress towards you winning a match.

[@TurkishD_lite]

@@liandre9035 My only worry would be that is the game lasts long enough to get to 10 hooks in the time for 5 gens and the exit gate then the killer also has time to just wipe someone out at 4 gens. (Assuming equally skilled both sides) I would rather everyone stay in the game till the last gens. Then the survivors start being killed one by one during the last gen. Fits the game better. But maybe it won't be like that.

[@KingsNerdCave]

Never have I seen a game with developers so out of touch with their product. They wanted this game to be hide and seek and players showed how important chasing was and how that was the fun of the game and balance changes were made. This game should be balanced around kills AND hooks. Cause 1 hook = 1 chase won by the killer. If you needed more than 4 hooks, if hooking each survivor once was more important than tunneling someone out quickly, if you balance the game around killers being forced to go for chases and needing to pick differing targets, you make things more skillful and I'd argue more fun overall. Tru3 doesn't always have good takes, but he has been advocating with hooks being the killer win condition and has forever been right about it.

[@UncontainablePickle-_420]

A cool change would be for killers to get small buffs depending on how many hooks they have, bigger % increases for getting all four survivors. Example: after successfully hooking all four survivors, you gain mapwide aura reading for 5 seconds, or a 5% haste bonus for 30 seconds. Hooks can be more fun, killers just need the incentive

[@TheGreatDemon666]

I said it back then and I’ll say it again now; Chaos is much funner than having to “sweat” every game. They need to remove it (MMR/SBMM) altogether.

[@infamous5673]

Remember if its killer streamers will ask for nerfs If its survivors they will ignore

[@tfcbioshock]

Patrick said "skilled players take more shots which lead to goals" which is in his mind.."skill." But taking shots are the action point of hockey. The main focus. What would that crucial action equal in the world of dbd? Looping and distracting killer so others can progress to 5 gens completed or chasing survivors and utilizing your power effectively in chase. So in other words..even in his own analogy.. looping and chasing is essentially the "taking the shot" game play of dbd anyways which if anything, is the part a player needs to learn and improve on the most anyways and therefore shows the most amount of skill for most scenarios in DBD. Something that is very hard to tell just from escape or sacrificed

[@hehehe88]

I don't know if this would fix things. I don't think hooks are a "Middleman", they are just kills of a different kind. 3 hooks equal a kill, but the reverse is true too; one kill equals 3 hooks, as we can see in the Michael footage. In fact, EVERYTHING you showed in Experiment.mp4, revolved around getting hooks. If you mean to say the act of hooking itself; where does that leave killers like pyramid head? where does that leave moris, and perks or set-ups that let you kill the survivor outright, like Devour Hope? Where does that leave people that kill themselves on hook on the killer? If 4 players do that in a game, that means the killer only got 4 actions of hooking a survivor? does THAT mean that they aren't skilled? Should that count against the killer then? This feels like an incomplete argument. This is not invalidating the other side of it, but more a point that i don't think it's as easy as "Hooks=skill". I genuinely don't think this game should have ever been competitively minded; as someone there the first day it came out, have spent my time with it, and have kept up with it even if i wasn't actively playing, I still don't see the merit into forcing it to be what it never was; competitive.

[@Laddima222]

I really appreciate and enjoy your recent videos, very informational and entertaining at the same time!

[@toysourosgj]

another banger!

[@glassyloss4715]

CoconutRTS, I have a Hag build for thee.. Shackles Hag with increased TP range, with Make Your Choice & Furtive Chase. You setup a trap under the hooked obsession, and leave.. if they unhook, it triggers and you're free to tp, if you're far enough away (you will be) then Make Your Choice triggers, Obsession transfers to the person that unhooked.. and they're insta-downed. Hook the new obsession and repeat. I also normally run this with Devour and either Nemesis or Game Afoot for more obsession swapping. have fun, its very toxic and very, very strong from what I can tell.. :)

[@joestoez]

I also think of Blight hug tech and space hillbilly. How BHVR has also removed fun strategies and replaced it with dull play styles.

[@ZizixxSamurai]

Hug techs took skill to successfully pull off, removing them was an idiotic decision.

[@joestoez]

@@ZizixxSamurai Absolutely. It also was rewarding since if you practiced it, you would be rewarded with being able to get decent hits. I also felt like it wasn't too strong since there was still plenty of counterplay for the survivors.

[@Tomo00]

Cause they are anti-fun. Just look how often they add invisible walls everywhere. You can literally hit a wall just falling from garden of pain main as survivor. Blight changes are the most dogshit changes ever. Reduced skill ceiling, made him more one dimensional so everyone plays the same now. Hug tech blight had more counterplay than bump into bump into hit and reacting to what killer is doing is part of the fun. Not "oh wow he is going to do exactly this because nothing else is possible now".

[@joestoez]

@@Tomo00 It is very frustrating. I also worry that they will target Wesker and his plethora of (fun but not too strong) techs.

[@ZizixxSamurai]

@@Tomo00 Space Billy too. Some people complained that "it wasn't fun", but those people probably think that any action a killer makes isn't fun. This tech was either entirely harmless, or took insane amount of prediction and skill to use offensively, and yet it was removed. We should probably try boycotting if the developers do anything else silly, seeing as FixTF2 partially but worked. If anyone gets inspired by the boycott idea, please make it clear on what You want to be changed.

[@j0hnicide]

the trend of killer techs getting nerfed and survivor tech not being nerfed has me concerned

[@Fansabisu]

Wait, so is MMR still based around kills instead of hooks? So theoretically, I could focus on two-hooking everyone every game to lower my MMR and bully low skill players for easy Bloodpoints?

[@keltonschleyer6367]

Correct. 0-1 kills lowers MMR, 2 is unchanged, 3-4 raises MMR.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

Smurfing might be a bannable offense, though, and it’s super cringe.

[@Fansabisu]

@@keltonschleyer6367 I feel like I just opened a whole new world of problems by mentioning this.

[@Fansabisu]

@@keltonschleyer6367 I actually like playing the game, so I won't try this "trick", but it is the reality of the situation and a big problem.

[@keltonschleyer6367]

@@Fansabisu Agreed, and I do trust your motives haha

[@Midwest_Jx]

Coco there’s a new “feel” to your videos and it’s amazing. Loving the recent content brother.

[@RETYQ]

God I hate dowsey; I’m just giving an opinion. Opinions are ment to be kicked around and debated.

[@RETYQ]

For context I used to enjoy him until he started snapping on his viewers.

[@ConspiracistLizardMan]

That Myers skin on Street Fighter was legit asf.

[@The_WIll_OF_D99]

I main G and I never knew that this was a thing

[@dusty0559]

Everybody says Kills = Skill But what about Skills = Kill?

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

No one is saying kills = skills. They’re saying the exact opposite. The fat man in the video is demonstrating who kills don’t equal skills. Many ppl have said this but killer mains refuse to listen. Most killer mains agree with the devs. They will do the same shhh then be like, I won, I got a 3-4 K, what did you do? Ummm I looped you for 4 gens…. But I have NOED and rancor and got 3K so obviously I’m more skilled than you all. Gg ez 🤓.

[@KrystalFairyFriend]

Dude, this is a beautiful video. I was not apart of the dbd community during this point because of the graphics update, but I do remember back then something about this but seeing it now. Man, I'm glad they're changing the game to make it fun instead of sweat. Though I feel bad for Patrick, he got the short end of the stick. I hope he's good

[@alanze18]

dowsey left the game for over a year this dude keeps milking him xD

[@Rusty_K9]

Wait, wait! Wait Guys! I think Patrick is onto something~ Just look! Skill = KillS It‘s the same word, OMG! We were all wrong- Jokes aside, I love Dowsey for what he achieved for this community ❤ Thank you for teaching the Devs how to play Hockey!

[@victor_hensley8748]

Are people ignoring all of the QoL stuff that's been added in the past two years. I undserstand the devs can be quite braindead a decent part of the time, but all of this stuff that's being talked about is from years ago, like it's 2024, stewing and seething for stuff from years ago does more harm than good and prevents people from personal growth.

[@FinestFantasyVI]

Agreed. Like we had seperate game modes Twisted Masquerade mode was essentially casual mode

[@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN]

The video still stands. As of now skill=kills=winner. Most killer mains agree with the devs and hate what this far man in the. Ideo had to say when he said those things. They will do the same shhh then be like, I won, I got a 3-4 K, what did you do? Ummm I looped you for 4 gens…. But I have NOED and tunneled and got 4K so obviously I’m more skilled than you all. Gg ez 🤓.

[@Bryan_S]

Every time I have random teammates that don’t do anything and use me or my 1 other friend to get a escape so that go up in MMR without helping at all endgame, we all say “They are pulling a Patrick”