Collision 2024 - Zain (Marth) [ W ] VS Hungrybox (Jigglypuff) [ L ] - Melee Top 8 - Grand Final

[@TheRealMew2king]

awesome exciting grand finals! Was great to see Hbox's improvement in a very short time, and still there's much more to go

[@happymonkeyfish]

Hope you're doing good homie!

[@stevenhadley3661]

It's honestly so hype to see old legends helping other old legends! Thanks M2K for all you do.

[@obx1bag]

Would love to see you compete in a major again m2k, if you’re up for that challenge.

[@CapsLock959]

Praise from the King. Almost as valuable as a win.

[@GeoffFClark]

Legend!

[@ZachHonest]

Congrats to Hbox for putting up a show, his run was crazy today.

[@diegomo1413]

I feel like HBox hearing people actually cheer for him is almost as good as winning the tournament 😊

[@wettuna1769]

As someone who fucking hated watching him win all the time before Covid, shit damn near brought a tear to my eye. His set vs Cody in winners was amazing same vibes as smash con last year but I felt he looked even better. I hope the crowd cheering for him makes him have the drive to win again the more players doing well the better for our game.

[@logank4085]

If someone told me in 2018-2019 that zain and hbox were in grands and the crowd was one-sided for hbox, I wouldn't believe it.

[@randomguy8107]

His rebranding through Ultimate and streams has been really successful

[@bigdrefromthebay6475]

HBox is officially a threat again ‘

[@Legendary_Honey]

The adaptations were wild.

[@Hyperbion7]

HBOX!!!!

[@Lorchlis]

I think he always has been even when he wasn't winning. I will say though I haven't heard a crowd actually cheer for hungrybox in YEARS though. Ppl really want to see him win again. That makes me happy. He used to get boo'd.

[@OhWellWhatTheHell1]

:')

[@michaels1672]

Spoiler Blocker plz

[@cta2644]

Doing my part liking this

[@pajamanaut5633]

🫡

[@Jagger02]

The length of the upload spoiled the results

[@ShanyeSoT]

@@Jagger02Yeah, I wish Smash tourney channels would take a play from Rocket League casters. They add on extra gameplay at the end of a video so you never know where the set could go, unless you physically scroll to the end.

[@supwithit]

@@ShanyeSoTGood idea. Melee has done this before, I strongly agree with this.

[@xTwistedFleshX]

Hbox is doing unbelievable things for smash with his coin box tournaments, streaming, playing smash ultimate a ton, and yet still has this level of melee play in him? Absolutely insane. You got people like Cody and Zain who play melee and only melee and yet have this much trouble against a "content creator and tournament organizer."

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

Hahahaha yes it must finally dawn on people that this dude is talented beyond belief

[@hecticmojo4532]

I completely agree

[@SoulFighter27]

absolutely

[@dizzydee4889]

smash's triple threat

[@PaintyMainy]

I teared up when I heard people chanting for Hungrybox. Nobody would've believed people cheer for him like 5 years ago.

[@sebaschan-uwu]

What are you talking about? Did people hate hbox or something?

[@mikeberenato]

@@sebaschan-uwu TLDR: Hbox was hated because of how defensively he plays puff I.E. the multiple ledgegrabs and camping corners people found it boring to watch so he was booed a lot and even had shit thrown at one point. I think his streams and how much he's impacted the community with his tournaments and work with Liquid has made people realize that stance is dumb.

[@sebaschan-uwu]

@mikeberenato people were out here doing that as recently as 5 years ago? I thought people were well beyond that. Hbox has been playing for like 15 years and knew how he played jigglypuff and I thought he was well liked.

[@TheBeggies95]

@@sebaschan-uwuHe was the most dislike player behind maybe Leffen in 2018/2019. I hated it so much cause he did not deserved it but players like Mang0, Leffen and Armada really generate the hate because he was beating all their Fox. They tried to tell people Puff was number 1 in the game (not mang0 tho)

[@mikeberenato]

@@TheBeggies95 It's even being done to an extent with ultimate now too. Any character MKleo used to pick up when he was on top was instantly the best character. Just because someone is really good at the game and can pick up mid tiers and make them look like top tiers doesn't mean anything about the actual character itself. fortunately MKleo didn't have to live through a villain arc like Hbox did

[@timothydaggs7701]

As someone who's watched melee for a while, I never thought I'd see the day when a crowd cheers FOR HBox. It's such a great thing to see. He never deserved the hate that he got.

[@Chloetalkstoomuch]

The crowd yelling with each ledge grab is too good fr 😂

[@B463L]

I love it. Instead of crying and malding over the ledge grabs they just tease him for it and then get over it. Hearing them cheer him on later was so wholesome

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

I think it shouldn't be allowed tbh. Can't imagine how distracting this would be. ​@@B463L

[@ligma334]

No one was crying when zAin was doing it and counting the ledge grabs why doesn't Cody count count those edge grabs instead of h box or just adapting

[@jimbobwilliebechicken]

This was the best most intense set I've seen in a while

[@TevanBalian]

Shades of vintage hungrybox in those games he won

[@andrewbank4696]

The Walt+June commentary is so goated. They're both so quick to recognize stuff that happens in the game instead of rambling about their own knowledge while the game goes on in the background.

[@PureSangheili]

Thank you for noticing it. I'm tired of commentators talking about the game in general instead of commenting the set they're watching.

[@Chizypuff]

I think knowing what to look for builds a lot of interest and excitement. I think this kind of commentsry is better for people who only watch though for sure

[@zemc77]

June being able to call out the pound on game 1 before it happened was kinda nuts.

[@_ben_miller]

zain's strategy of just throwing out constant hitboxes to prevent hbox from even getting in was brutal

[@ellachino4799]

Mang0 said years ago he thinks optimal Marth is impossible for Puff to beat, I'm starting to see it more and more every zain hbox set

[@actuallymario7676]

Im novice but for sure you can tell its just plain difficult to engage.

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

​@@ellachino4799but zain is the most optimal Marty by far and this set was as close (nearly) as any set can be.

[@yellowtitan6040]

@@ellachino4799 Yeah and after one of Ludwig's events (last year I think?) Hbox tweeted that it's impossible to beat Marth with Puff unless he completely overhauled his strategy or something to that effect. Does anyone know what he thinks of the matchup today?

[@ellachino4799]

ofc, human beings can't play at a theoretical perfection. Mang0 was basically talking about a 20XX like situation. HBox can still beat Zain if he studies Zain's habits and comes up with an appropriate gameplan + executes well. @@sebastiansullivan4770

[@JauntyVampire]

People we’re actually cheering hungrybox ledge refreshing. Melee has come so far dude

[@jordandwiggins1026]

It’s funny that the crowd was cheering for the guy with the villain tag so much against both Cody and Zain with the hero tags.

[@OhWellWhatTheHell1]

you either die a villain or live long enough to see yourself become a hero

[@TopOfAllWorlds]

It felt like Hbox was back to form in this tournament. It feels so great.

[@luigi64gamer19]

Amsa wasnt present thats why

[@IDeadDanI]

Great set and great commentators! Best i've heard in a while

[@RI-v4kdh]

True!

[@simanolastname2399]

Yeah, the commentary at this tournament was great. It felt like HMW improved his commentary too

[@IDeadDanI]

@@simanolastname2399It was so refreshing to watch mango play and not have to mute cause the commentators scream and freak out everytime he wavedashes

[@Emil-Roma]

@@IDeadDanII knew I couldn’t be the only one who thinks this.

[@MitchBison]

Zain now on a 12 set win streak vs hbox which is pretty crazy

[@dizzydee4889]

that's crazy. feels so close to him taking one though.

[@II-June-II]

As a Jiglypuff player, these performances from HBox bring me hope in an era where it seems like Puff can't do it anymore. I hope Hbox wins a major this year !

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

Puff is no doubt one of the top 5 chars in the game along with fox, Marth, Falco, peach. Of course she can do it. Hbox had to adapt to current meta is all but even when behind he was not that far behind

[@TheBeggies95]

@@sebastiansullivan4770Bro put Peach before Sheik

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

@@TheBeggies95 seems reasonably easy to argue that peach is as good as shiek. But yeah sheik too :)

[@josephblight9421]

​@@sebastiansullivan4770idk about peach top 5 bro, sheik and falcon are both noticeably better than her, you could even argue sheik is better than falco in this meta

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

@@josephblight9421 to me until players have mastered the techniques and appropriate usage of them completely it does little good to discuss who at the top level is a morw functional character. All we can say is that on average at the moment X characters seem to appear a lot at the top. To counter that, we've seen Yoshi become viable at the high level and others are on the rise too imo. The biggest factor is and has always been the players. People have always put too much stock into character pick in these games and not enough into individual players talent and hard work.

[@ezmoneyy149]

seeing Hbox's Run and the fans on his side is worth WAYYYY more than any first place

[@TheyCallMeLord]

22:33 Zain actually trying to recreate how he won shine 2018 lmao

[@Ruyeghu2]

this set was so stressful lol

[@misterkupp]

11:36 God the emotion. This is why i love melee...

[@brodieorr5393]

This Hbox revival arc is incredible, and this zayne rivalry is the pinnacle of it. Can't wait to see the man win at WrestleMania ;)

[@abcrasshadow9341]

Love the role reversal going on in this set, with Hbox being the Hero and Zain being the villain.

[@connorr4183]

Commentary on this set is some of the best I've ever heard in Melee

[@josephblight9421]

Hbox is honestly pushing puff insanely far and continuing to pioneer the character no less. He's found so many news ways to approach this match up to make it winnable again after its looked impossible at this level of play for quite a while now. I love zain but I hope hbox beats him at some point, shit would be hype as hell tbh

[@thisisfyne]

I don't recall ever hearing a crowd cheer for Hbox but man, he played like a god for a minute there! Crazy set from both these guys!! Long live Melee

[@oui_chapeau]

as a fan of the game for a decade, I love hearing some Hungrybox chants, the man deserves it :)

[@hahahalala-i1x]

that was such a fucking good set holy shit not often a jigglypuff makes this great of a set but its so great

[@Chiplinked]

The fucking anxiety aghhhhh

[@Chizypuff]

Hbox's top 8 was cody -> zain -> cody -> zain and if he takes the first set zain again. Brutal

[@Molten-Throne]

Hell of a battle. So fun watching this. Well done to both players looking hella strong. Well done Zain. Hungry was so close, good ending for him here at second. Zain was a madman and earned it.

[@broor]

4:29 marth on top? Havent tried that position

[@wavyboi]

That was amazing! So hype to see that sweaty and deep of a zain hbox match Side note, I wish there was a bit more after the match like analysis or chat with hungrybox or zain

[@unapologeticasshat9214]

Well played af from both players, shit was tight.

[@savageshotz]

It's hard to believe that Hungrybox went from being one of the most hated people in Melee, to now being one of the most beloved people in the Smash Community. So great to see such an amazing uprising!

[@ghost5828v]

Feels so good to watch Hbox! Seems like he’s the only old god keeping up to chase the #1 spot after all these years. Feels bad for Mango, but he’s had a good run and it’s time to cheer for Hbox! Might be the real goat of this game some day. :)

[@RoseGlass97]

Waiting for mango fans to see this lmao.

[@ghost5828v]

@@RoseGlass97 been a mango fan since 2013 but who tf cares we’re talking about the present lol

[@RoseGlass97]

@ghost5828v haha gotcha. Yeah I'm a mango fan as well, been busy lately, but I assume he's still going buster every once in awhile during tournament. I remember how the community is, and they'll bash anyone who critiques mango.

[@B463L]

Mango waxes and wanes -- he was the best in the world circa 2013, slumped hard for quite a few years, and then from 2019 to 2022 he was top 2 in the world IMO. He could have another stretch of dominance. Thou shalt not sleep on the kid

[@nahnahnah1435]

remind who won the last supermajor out of those two players real quick

[@weedog24]

I loved the part when Hungrybox said “it’s Hungrybox time” & then hungryboxed all over zain 10/10

[@oknotyet9630]

Congrats Zain.....Hungry Box was my favorite he plays very well and it was close

[@aarondimas7312]

Commentary being this good on such a grit and grime set is what makes me say theres no excuses for other, far too common, bad commentary. Dont need a super deep analysis but just talk about the game thats being played.

[@itzyaboicloud8735]

Zain got that Mr.Beast pose on the thumbnail.

[@geraldson7501]

Although he lost this set Hbox showed that he is still more than capable of winning any tournament that he enters. He beat the number one player in the world easily twice and took zain to the limit in two very close sets. Hbox has shown that he is the last god who is capable of winning majors in the current year despite mango saying otherwise. Mango consistently tries to downplay Hboxs top eight streak by saying it is not enough to just make top 8 but now it is clear that Hbox can win any tournament no matter how stacked. I think its time for mango to accept the fact that Hbox is better than him and will be ranked higher for another year unless big changes happen but I dont think his ego will let him.

[@dh3913]

I hope Hbox is able to figure out Zain the same way he was able to combat Cody, melee is so much more hype with multiple people expected to win each tournament.

[@melikmourali2072]

Bruh who cares what Mango thinks about Hbox, we're in 2024 now. I'm just glad to see that Hbox has finally learned new tech to improve his matchups. All he needs is a little more consistency and he'll be on equal footing with the top 3

[@rockyino99]

growing up is realizing mango was never the good guy in any of the conflicts between him and other gods

[@olefshn4464]

The first set they played was a 3-0 so it wasn't particularly close at all.

[@evanpowers1537]

@@rockyino99 I think saying he had conflicts with them is a bit melodramatic

[@UnhappyPensFan]

Really appreciate the play-by-play commentary. To each their own but the narrative-driven commentary you get from the other regulars just feels so disconnected and I find myself genuinely annoyed sometimes. Hoping to get this more often

[@Visi0nss]

“HE’S BAAAAAAACK”

[@Endonautbadvids]

This is one of the greatest sets of all time change my mind

[@1.3trilliondollarman]

Im so grateful for the quality of fights in melee!!

[@harrylee1223]

can someone tell me what the “hero” and “villain” labels mean?

[@Jagger02]

It was a comic book theme they were going for

[@christsolos]

this was so fun to watch man, lets go my 2 goats

[@The_Hylian_Link]

Holy shit, this match is not for the faint of heart. Mine was pounding really hard in game 5. Absolutely loved it. Melee's an awesome game.

[@gambledork7154]

Love the song playing. "With Us" from Path of Radiance is such a perfect song for the ending with everyone chanting for hbox

[@DrunkenHotei]

Puff-haters: "OMG look at how Hbox camps all the time." This match: Just dance, Marth. Dance.

[@budgetcommander4849]

Hbox in the thumbnail looking like he's about to pull a dastardly trick on Batman

[@heartnet40]

I can't believe we live in a world where Zain is as untouchable as he feels because of how good his recovery is. If you had told me that Marth's recovery game was better than almost every other Top Tier's back when Mew2King and Armada were playing I would have told you you were a Marth simp, but now? It's really made the difference if Jigglypuff struggles to edgeguard this character. Zain really is built different.

[@shinji136]

I don't think it's so much Marth's recovery as Zain's recovery in particular, though his recovery is definitely not bad even among top tiers when tragedies like Sheik's and Falcon's recoveries exist.

[@J0J0Jetz]

The hbox chant is great

[@Frank7489]

I’m usually rooting for Zain but a Hungrybox win here woulda been awesome

[@ezmoneyy149]

what happened to Tourney Organizers to upload videos with alot of extra time so its not semi spoiled.

[@codetaku]

This grand finals was so hype live that I forgot game 5 was a JV2 until I rewatched the set just now

[@onprint4868]

No sorprise if those guys get a heart attack some day...

[@joshuastevens2186]

Fucking Juan looking like he's missing a weeks worth of sleep

[@Cormy1]

Commentators acting like phantoms are some kind of RNG-based bug and therefore when it occurs in your favour they say the game is on your side. It's not a bug, it's consistent. It is an explicitly coded behaviour. The hitboxes aren't overlapping enough so devs consider it a miss, but they decided to give you SOMETHING for it. It's a compromise effect instead of fully biasing towards either a hit or miss outcome.

[@Oxmodius19]

Finally great commentary! Love the game, but I usually have to mute it.

[@SaiyanX5]

Zain looks like that one Luigi pic lol

[@FellOff]

God damn Hbox was moving

[@DrunkenHotei]

Why is Zain almost never JCing his grabs? It doesn't seem like it's for reach every time. Is this a strat in the puff-marth MU for some reason?

[@Thierce]

late but yes, Marth's dash grab reaches lower than his standing grab and therefore can reach a crouching puff

[@DrunkenHotei]

@@Thierce Ah, that makes sense. Thank you!

[@The1TrueFoxMcCloud]

Zain has pretty eyes

[@Zesilo]

Was really happy to see Hbox popping off

[@PalPlays]

Zain is going to remember this set before he decides to forgo practicing the Puff matchup next time.

[@USS_Liberty_never_forget]

6:32 great quote

[@MarcGoncalis-gb9pb]

Amazing game and amazing casters.

[@bobboberson8297]

why is the video tagged street fighter 6 rofl

[@bozscaggzz7475]

Why does it say top 8 grand finals?

[@evanpowers1537]

Because that's what set it is. "top 8" just refers to the rest of the tournament after it's down to 8 players. This was still part of top 8- it's just how it's referred to if you look at the tournament schedules etc

[@bozscaggzz7475]

@@evanpowers1537 seems pointless to say top 8 when it's grand finals. It's top 2. Everyone else is out. I've Never seen that before.

[@mehgamer467]

​At that point losers finals should be called top 3 with that logic. Top 8 is just what section of tournament it is. The thing after denotes what PART of top 8. ​@@bozscaggzz7475

[@Olimzel]

Congrats Zain!!! Hell of a fight.

[@silliestgoober69]

hbox is improving again, kinda scary considering his play isn’t even that good atm, he has so much room for improvement hopefully he doesn’t get distracted

[@AL-lh2ht]

Hbox literally is the most successful player ever

[@silliestgoober69]

@@AL-lh2ht okay?💀 what does that have to do with my comment

[@patrickhamning1734]

When Zain found his rhythm on game 5, he was spamming attacks and thwarting all of hboxs attempts to get 1 hit

[@RIStar-ds7wr]

2018-2019 Zain was the babyface and Hbox was the heel 2024 the roles have reversed. How times have changed

[@Greatermaxim]

Something we have seen before. I would have loved Hboy to bust out his Zainslappy Marth, white, and mop the floor. Melee is not chess; you do not have to change pieces-or characters.

[@dragumkirisute1998]

7:59 I actually feel bad for Zain when something like this happens... lol

[@MewcePewpz]

great set!

[@jasperbankhead9752]

started smash in ultimate a couple years ago and im just getting into watching melee hype ass set ultimate could never

[@KeithDameo]

Hell yes! Hbox, pulling off the moves that made people believe jigglypuff might be the best character in the game again. Go for number 1 Hbox you can do it! I love watching this, great melee!

[@Alonzone]

Have not heard HungryBox cheers since Pound 2019

[@lotgxj9]

This was so exciting

[@riffz6065]

Hbox is the GOAT

[@xXBNubzXx]

I used to despise watching hbox play pre covid, but now I’m his biggest fan. I might just be a hater lol Good to see Juan getting back into form though. Happy his recent practice is paying off

[@StudioSkiesAndWater]

id love to hear mango to a video commentating this

[@AtticusKiser]

6:06

[@vtninja_2906]

Number 1 is back!

[@a_little_flame589]

well hbox might just be the main character of melee again (he needs to stop doing that)

[@wilwn]

What a run from Hbox

[@CasualScrub]

I wish my smile was as beautiful as Zain's

[@lotgxj9]

When marth is off stage going out and stopping him from returning is so easy

[@shinji136]

It's not.

[@elikohler6165]

Hbox changing up his gameplay was so fun to watch, lets get that #1 this year hboxNODDERS

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

Is it just me or does it seems like HBox doesn't even bother trying to DI? It seems like a major weakness he needs to work on. Why let yourself die when you don't have to? I feel like Hbox could have won this. Excited to see how he performs in future tourneys.

[@jellyfish4816]

Wdym it felt like his di was amazing? He avoided so many tippers, loved a lot of smash attacks, and actually survived to 150 multiple times

[@Adam_U]

Hbox DI is bad due to using tap jump and all the aerial drifting he constantly needs to do. Easy to get caught with your pants down

[@TheGameCapsule]

How old is HungryBox 50?

[@kilging5524]

ngl i used to be hbox hater cuz i thought his place was lame but this was lookin sexy love to see how far this man has come he lookin real scary rn😈

[@imaginationland474]

cant believe im actually rooting for hbox here

[@The_Breaded92]

Damn this was good

[@vertsang5424]

that was hype

[@Eval999]

flashes of hgoat