Colton Miller | Why the Doctrine of the Trinity Doesn’t Align With the Bible

[@nataly140]

When I first picked up the Bible and read the New Testament I didn't have any questions who God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost were. It was clear as day - Jesus was being baptized, the Father was in Heaven and the HG was descending as a dove. I remember investigating different churches asking questions and I would get answers from them, often I remember telling them - it is not what the Bible said. I was young, 14-15 yo but I could read ;-) After many wonderings and the fact that no one could give me answers to my questions, God saw me searching and I met the missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I picked up some stuff from my "wonderings" as to " who adds to these words" (Revelation stuff), so when I saw the Book of Mormon I was like - no way, you are not adding anything. But my missionaries knew that Revelation was added to canon way after Epistle of John and I read about Nicaea gatherings. After a year of investigating the Church I was baptized. Best decision of my life! 26 years later I am still here and God is great! I found answers to all my questions, it was like a big 1000 pieces puzzle finally was put together. Everything made sense. Thank you for another wonderful discussion. Best wishes from an Air Force wife! ;-) Defend the force!

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@nataly140 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️☀️

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@nataly140 beautiful, inspiring testimony!

[@lyndasquires2860]

I grew up in a protestant church and loved Jesus Christ. At 12 in catechism classes the Trinity was the beginning of my journey for truth for I deeply felt it wasnt. I was led to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and feeling the Godhead was that truth I sought.

[@bambie1830]

Growing up lds went through a faith crisis, and recently attended many denominations I just couldn’t wrap my mind around the trinity I guess that’s why it’s a “mystery” in its definition. The god head just makes sense when I would read the Bible no matter how many times I was told it was wrong, like why does Jesus always say “his father”

[@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i]

So you believe in a church that teaches that God and Jesus were both once men who became exalted? Sounds about right!

[@alexmunro2640]

@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i So are you saying Jesus was not a man who is now exalted? Does Jesus have a body now?

[@nataly140]

​ Jesus got resurrected, for His body back and went to Heaven. That is in the Bible. ​@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@alexmunro2640 Great question!👍🏻

[@meghanschwanke1133]

Growing up in a Protestant church, I never understood the Trinity. It made me think of God as a blob in space "without body, parts or passions." When I was 12, I asked mySS teacher why we didn't have a prophet. Her answer was, "THOSE people needed them." As if we were smarter.I knew that was wrong even then. Now I can understand who God is, who Jesus Christ is and why the Holy Ghost does not (yet) have a body and how they all three work together to enact God's plan for His children.

[@noskalborg723]

Excellent testimony. Thank you for sharing, Sister.

[@livinthedream4479]

Yea I went to a Christian church and it did not make sense even to my 12 yr old self that God was a blob. I went to church with my grandmother and throughout my teen yrs I felt that the gospel of this church made all the pieces fit together

[@noskalborg723]

@@livinthedream4479 we Latter-day Saints just have a more concrete understanding of God.

[@IprevailXIV]

I think “conditioned to believe” instead of “brainwashed” is more accurate way to describe those who believe the trinity. And sounds a bit more respective also, just my 2 cents.

[@jennycross2121]

I have loved this episode being brought up Christian learning more about the LDS faith and waiting to join this has been so eye opening experience Thank you I cant wait to join the Church!

[@ClintK.]

Welcome home so glad to have you!

[@aaronfrazier6204]

Good luck! No matter what happens, please remember that we (LDS) ARE Christians. We love, worship, and follow Jesus Christ and his teachings. We just have a different understanding of the nature of God compared to other Christians.

[@perumalnagapushnam7542]

welcome to the church, being a member fo 40 years over, every year I would say it has and had never have been better

[@thereddadventure]

I have a vivid memory of an experience on my mission when we had delivered a DVD to someone that had requested it and we had a short discussion but when we started talking about the first vision the person started trying to describe the trinity to us. While holding up his finger for each, said there is the father, the son and holy Spirit and would say they are one with three fingers up. We pointed it out and he looked at his fingers confused, then would repeat it again and kept looking at his three fingers and I swear he was confusing himself. It's so sad something I think is so simple to understand is a stumbling block for so many. Understanding the true nature of God is foundational

[@StayAliveQuestionEverything]

one thing that has come out of (this and other TSOJ) episodes for me is such a whole new view of what Jesus is saying in the sacrament when he says “ye do in remembrance of my body” and of “my blood”. He is explicitly teaching people before his death and after his resurrection that he HAS A BODY! “Touch the prints of the nails in my hands” He makes a priority out of commanding us to remember that he has and is still in a body, a specific body, one that was mortal and crucified and is resurrected and perfected but nevertheless still the same. For the last month or so I’ve been hearing the sacrament prayer so differently. For me, the prayers still mean all I’ve understood so far but I’ve been amazed by how I’ve always missed how bluntly and deliberately and repeatedly Jesus has said “remember my BODY”. PS Your channel, your content, and you guys and your guests have easily been the highlight of my 2024. Thanks for being brave. 👊🏼

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@StayAliveQuestionEverything 🙌🏻❤️❤️❤️❤️Me too!

[@shaunathornton8032]

I keep thinking about the fact the Garden of Gethsemane is an Olive Grove where they press the Olives to make oil...the tree of life...his blood.😮😮😮

[@robertrobinson6542]

I love John chapters 6, 7, and 8. There is so much there that talks about the relationship between God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. My favorite part is at the end of what I have posted here when Jesus asks why they cannot understand the simple speech that he is using to explain. -God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. … 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. … 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…. -Jesus declared the will of God, and God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. John 6:44 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 7:16-18 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. -The doctrine, that Jesus taught, was not his own. Jesus came to glorify God the Father. John 7:28-29 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me. - Jesus did not send himself. Why did he cry this? Because they could not understand the simple speech. John 8:18-29 … 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. -Jesus taught what he learned from God the Father. John 8:38-43 … 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. -It is pretty simple. Why do you not understand the simple speech? Jesus did not send himself.

[@robertrobinson6542]

I love John chapters 6, 7, and 8. There is so much there that talks about the relationship between God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. My favorite part is at the end of what I have posted here when Jesus asks why they cannot understand the simple speech that he is using to explain. -God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. … 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. … 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…. -Jesus declared the will of God, and God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. John 6:44 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 7:16-18 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. -The doctrine, that Jesus taught, was not his own. Jesus came to glorify God the Father. John 7:28-29 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me. - Jesus did not send himself. Why did he cry this? Because they could not understand the simple speech. John 8:18-29 … 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. -Jesus taught what he learned from God the Father. John 8:38-43 … 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. -It is pretty simple. Why do you not understand the simple speech? Jesus did not send himself.

[@Chris_in_Idaho]

The doctrine of exaltation is seen in several scriptures. Please consider the following: 1. We are the offspring of God - Acts 17:29, Heb. 12:9 2. We are heirs of God - Gal. 4:7 3. We are joint heirs with Christ - Rom. 8:14-17 4. We shall inherit all things - Rev. 21:7 5. We shall receive a mansion - Jn. 14:2 6. We shall sit on God's throne - Rev. 3:21 7. We will be given a crown of glory - 1 Pet. 5:4 8. We shall receive the same glory and image as the Lord - 2 Cor. 3:18 9. We will receive the same type of body as Christ - Phil. 3:21 10. We will be given power - Rev. 2:26 11. We will be made rulers - Matt. 25:21,23 12. We shall judge the world and angels - 1 Cor. 6:2,3 13. We will bear the image of the heavenly - 1 Cor. 15:49 14. We will be like God - 1 Jn. 3:2 15. We will partake of God's divine nature - 2 Pet. 1:4 Note that the Greek word for "partakers" is "koinonos" (Strong's word #2844). It comes from the Greek word "koinos" (Strong's word #2839). It, and its other derivatives, have as their primary meaning a part(ner), share(r), associate, and "have in common". This means that one of the things we will inherit from God, and have in common with Him, is His nature i.e. His omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. In Greek, the word "divine" is "theios" (Strong's word #2304). It is also translated as "Godhead" and "Godlike". This assures us that the nature Peter spoke of includes ALL of God's divine characteristics. Opponents of this truth object to this but offer no viable explanation of scriptures #8, 13, 14, and 15 to refute it.

[@birdjericho]

I met many Christians on my mission to Los Angeles (mostly Evangelical) who were very likeminded in that they could not accept the sheer weight of the term "joint-heirs with Christ" in the least bit; Paul **couldn't** have been talking about something above and beyond salvation from sin, since there is no such thing (eternal life is "the greatest of all the gifts of God," after all, and none of us deserved even that much). And yet, curiously, I was urged by multiple people on completely separate occasions that if I would just read the entirety of Romans word-for-word from the King James Version of the Holy Bible (as if that wasn't one of the books of scripture I was literally holding in my hand in that moment), I would surely abandon this silly thing called Mormonism, I would finally be saved, and everything they described to me would make perfect sense. I would get really confused for a while afterwards, every time; I honestly asked myself multiple times: "Am I missing something? I have to be. We're all reading the same words, aren't we?" Well, to this day, I only know two things for certain: that I love Paul's epistle to the Romans, and that nothing shall ever separate us from the love of our Redeemer. :D

[@Chris_in_Idaho]

@@birdjericho Amen

[@2011Asterix]

A few years ago, my wife and I visited the Community of Christ temple in Independence, MO. The Community of Christ used to be known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints until they embraced the doctrine of the Trinity in order to be accepted into the National Council of Churches. There we were shown a video about Joseph Smith visiting the Sacred Grove and having a powerful "encounter with the Divine." After the film, my wife asked our guide, "Didn't Joseph say that he saw the Father and the Son as two distinct beings?" "Yes," she admitted. When my wife asked her how that account squared with their belief in the Trinity, our guide replied, "God can manifest Himself to man any way he wants, and in this case he wanted to manifest Himself as two beings." Huh? Was God trying to confuse us?

[@tinacarvalhoBodyandHealth]

In my journey to the fullness of the Gospel, i went to my then church priest and was told the pope is god on Earth, that got me deciding to keep learning what the Book of Mormon was showing me. I love the Gift of The Holy Ghost and my membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that God has sent His Son and now working on ward for our brothers and sisters to also come join

[@couragecoachsam]

Mainstream Christians believe the “Apostolic era” was a unique, one-time phenomenon. They usually argue it’s because Christ and the apostles said all that there was to say and the need for apostles ended. To say otherwise would open the door to the idea that the primitive church DID fall into error and DID need a restoration that for some reason just wouldn’t stick until 1820. Contrary to their convenient reasoning, we ought to boldly proclaim that God spoke and yet speaks to His children. He called prophets and apostles and yet calls prophets and apostles to testify of the Living God.

[@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i]

Joseph Smith is a con man and a liar!

[@couragecoachsam]

@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9ihe’s a prophet called of God

[@MrNirom1]

When Jesus asked the Apostle Peter who he thought he was.... Peter answered his question by saying and I quote the bible: 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And what comment did Jesus give to Peter? 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Now I ask you. If flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto Peter... that means that no man told Peter this. And because Jesus was made of flesh and blood... it did not come from Jesus either. But Jesus does tell us who told him: but my Father which is in heaven. So the Father revealed it to him. And what is it called when God himself reveals something to a human??? It is called REVELATION. Yes... Peter received a REVELATION from the Father that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God. And now I ask... what was the very next thing that Jesus said to Peter after revealing that he had received a REVELATION from God the Father? He said: 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The rock??? Yes... the rock was REVELATION! He will build his church upon REVELATION and if the church is built upon REVELATION... then... THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.

[@somewhereunimaginable1688]

Matthew24:36 says it as clear as day. 36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[a] but the Father only." Hence there is no way that they are all the same when one knows what the other doesn't. Love you all.

[@kyngjulian5515]

this is perfect, you’re incredible for putting this in the comments!

[@JonasGjerrild]

As God, Jesus is all-knowing. However, when he became human, he voluntarily set aside the independent use of certain divine attributes, including omniscience, to fully experience human life (Philippians 2:6-7). In his human nature, he genuinely did not know the hour, but in his divine nature, he retained full knowledge.

[@somewhereunimaginable1688]

@JonasGjerrild that is the least intelligent thing about Jesus and the trinity i ever heard. Your claim is that Jesus forgot who he was when he came to earth 🤦🏻‍♂️. What kind of God forgets???? Also, in the instance in which Jesus was in Gethsemane, he prayed to heavenly father to take the cup from him. If they were the same, they would share the same will. Since Jesus asked to have that burden taken from if heavenly father willed it, they clearly were on 2 separate pages. Another instance of them being separate.

[@JonasGjerrild]

@@somewhereunimaginable1688 The claim is not that Jesus "forgot" who He was, but that He voluntarily limited the independent use of certain divine attributes when He became human (Philippians 2:6-7). As God, Jesus remained omniscient, but as a human, He willingly took on the limitations of humanity to fully experience life as we do. This doesn’t diminish His divinity but shows His humility and purpose in becoming our Savior. Regarding His prayer in Gethsemane, it demonstrates His dual nature. In His human nature, He genuinely felt the weight of the suffering ahead, expressing a natural human desire to avoid pain. However, His divine will was perfectly aligned with the Father’s. This moment doesn’t show two separate wills in opposition but rather Jesus’ human will submitting fully to the divine plan, highlighting the unity within the Trinity. The Trinity isn’t about the Father, Son, and Spirit being the same person but being distinct persons sharing one divine essence. Their roles differ, yet they act in perfect harmony. This unity in diversity reflects the mystery of God’s nature-something beyond full human comprehension but consistent with the biblical witness.

[@JonasGjerrild]

@@somewhereunimaginable1688 The claim is not that Jesus "forgot" who He was, but that He voluntarily limited the independent use of certain divine attributes when He became human (Philippians 2:6-7). As God, Jesus remained omniscient, but as a human, He willingly took on the limitations of humanity to fully experience life as we do. This doesn’t diminish His divinity but shows His humility and purpose in becoming our Savior. Regarding His prayer in Gethsemane, it demonstrates His dual nature. In His human nature, He genuinely felt the weight of the suffering ahead, expressing a natural human desire to avoid pain. However, His divine will was perfectly aligned with the Father’s. This moment doesn’t show two separate wills in opposition but rather Jesus’ human will submitting fully to the divine plan, highlighting the unity within the Trinity. The Trinity isn’t about the Father, Son, and Spirit being the same person but being distinct persons sharing one divine essence. Their roles differ, yet they act in perfect harmony. This unity in diversity reflects the mystery of God’s nature-something beyond full human comprehension but consistent with the biblical witness.

[@sharitims2699]

I love this show. Thank you guys. I am learning from study at home. I can't go to church due to cancer. Your shows really help.

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@sharitims2699 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@cameronreed1411]

To Colton's point about the word "One" in John 10, 14 and 17 if you look at the Greek, the word that's used is "ένα" (neuter grammatical form) not "ένας" (masculine grammatical form). The neuter form indicates that they are "one" in everything but Their bodies.

[@af146983]

As an Arkansan, i thank you working in our corner of the vineyard.

[@laurfred2742]

Well done guys! Colton served part of his mission in our area and was a fantastic missionary. It's good to see him still preaching the gospel.

[@outof_obscurity]

I love Miller's content. We've spoken only a couple times on tiktok. But totally a bold dude antagonists to the church are disliking right now.

[@ItsSnagret]

Colton is beyond based 💪

[@Borkybaby]

Heyyyyy fellow ward radio member ;)

[@HurleyDoesGames]

I feel like quite a few of us are

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

Loved this episode! Been studying the trinity, and early saints. I LOVE the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ! It is glorious and brings me closer to Jesus Christ! Thank you brothers! ❤️☀️👍🏻

[@cuttingcrew5084]

This is gonna be a spicy episode and I’m all here for it!

[@roseanneconforto9890]

I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints and have been so since 1993. However, I grew up Catholic having attended Catholic school from kindergarten through 12th grade. Every single year we had religion class and I always had questions which always received the same answer “we must take it on faith, dear“ you are not allowed to question you have to just accept what they tell you which is why as soon as I get out of high school I no longer went to church. Yeah a lot of people are brainwashed and a lot of people just give up and do what they’re told and some like may walk away and fortunately find the truth.

[@DarthMomo]

58:23 when i converted at age 18, i literally theorized this as the explanation of john 1:1 without knowing any of the hebrew or greek. Lol. Amazing how it's all coming together

[@couragecoachsam]

What I learned today from the Spirit during second hour is that questions are not doubts. Questions are an expression of curiosity and take effort to mold into even the right questions to ask. Doubt, however, comes from prejudice, fear, and rigid (brittle) logic. So, watch out when apostates claim they’re just asking questions when they’re actually trying to undermine your faith with manipulative rhetoric.

[@davidnielson5929]

I've had the same realization. Mine came after I read a quote that essentially said that we must examine our motive for questioning these things. If it is to invite us to call upon Heavenly Father for further light and knowledge, then it is okay to question. But if our questioning is designed to bring doubt to ourselves or others, we are heading down a path of destruction. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[@stuffa01]

A good question to ask is: when you pass from this life, what and who do you expect to see?

[@msylvest55]

good work homies on the john dehlin podcast. not a mormon but i have deep love for mormon people. from their abilitiy to integrate into secular culture without drugs to utah being one of the most pleasant states, I find mormons among americas most valuable players. Still yet, I wish you would have told john that he just replaced his mormon faith for a faith in the religion of the woke. You mentioned it in passing with the comment regarding post-modern ideals. But, it would have been great if you drilled him on that piece. Best, Mike

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

🙌🏻 That would have been very interesting! 👍🏻

[@FaithofAbinadi]

The atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite, thus through Christ we can become like him. That’s beautiful!

[@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i]

YOU CANNOT BECOME A GOD!!! That is another Mormon LIE!

[@MrNirom1]

It is only infinite when it comes to our Father in Heaven's children.

[@_inveterate]

@@FaithofAbinadi awesome profile photo

[@jameswines6589]

​@@MrNirom1why do Mormons tell people they came from Heaven to this earth to get a body they are the only people that teach that garbage it's nothing but a lie

[@Chris_in_Idaho]

I'd recommend a Book called, "How Greek Philosophy Corrupted the Christian Concept of God".

[@couragecoachsam]

I had lunch with Colton recently and he shared that first quote from Chadwick’s book. It’s been on his mind for a while and the issue of apostolic succession has been on mine. Fellow Saints should look into this early church history because it’s clear to me that despite Christian’s claim that authority was conferred from apostles to bishops, it is NOT true. Without authority, the proximity the bishops and early church fathers had to the apostles and whether or not they received and protected pure teachings is irrelevant. Authority was no longer present and they relied on tradition and intellectualism to justify their false claim to power

[@brandonjaquish]

@@couragecoachsam history shows that the authority was passed down IS true! The Apostles were given authority by Christ and then they passed it down to Bishops who passed it down and it has continued to be passed down to the present day. Every Bishop in the Catholic Church can trace it back to the Apostles and Christ!

[@couragecoachsam]

@ that’s the statement of faith I am refuting precisely. I say statement of faith because it’s taken on the word of the early church fathers that the first bishops preserved the teachings of the apostles, not explicitly recorded as ordination or giving one the same authority. That’s not succession. Anything less than ordination by the laying on of hands (how Christ gave his disciples apostolic authority) is not genuine. Preserving oral tradition is not succession. Joseph Smith was ordained by the laying on of hands by the resurrected John the Baptist, apostles Peter, James, and John. All who bear an office in the restored priesthood can directly trace their lineage of authority to them and therefore Jesus Christ. Articles of Faith 5 & 6: 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

[@brandonjaquish]

@@couragecoachsam we know that the early Church did. In fact, Acts 6:5-6 in the Bible explicitly says that they laid hands on some of the early disciples. You say that Joseph Smith received the laying on of hands by John the Baptist, Peter, James & John...where is there evidence of that? lol We can't just take him at his word.

[@couragecoachsam]

@ yes, Christ set the pattern of ordination by the laying on of hands and there is evidence that it was practiced for positions other than apostle, which makes the Catholic claim of apostolic succession a matter of preserving tradition rather than literal ordination all the more jarring in its falseness. None of the first bishops or early church fathers even claim to have been set apart in the only manner recognized by God. Authority was lost after the apostles died. Of course, let’s not take him at his word. Oliver Cowdery was ordained with Joseph and saw and heard the same that Joseph saw and heard. You can search for the essay titled: Restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood on the church website.

[@brandonjaquish]

@@couragecoachsam but..they have lol "...Peter ordered the people to meet on the following day; and having ordained one of those who followed him as bishop over them, and others as presbyters, and having baptized multitudes, and restored to health all who were troubled with sicknesses or demons." -St. Clement of Rome Can you provide evidence that authority was lost after the Apostles? ummm but I don't believe Joseph's or Oliver's word. So, are you saying that I can claim that Jesus appeared to me and told me that LDS is completely false and that I need to be ordained to restart the church and my Buddy was next to me and witnessed it and was also ordained. Would you believe me and follow my newly 'restored church'?

[@ChildofGod98765]

Lord, I know that being a single parent is not always easy, but with your help, I am confident that I can do it. I ask for your help in providing for my sons emotionally, financially and physically. Lord I struggle every month trying to provide for my boys. I’m overwhelmed. Every month is a battle. I’m barely getting by. I fell like the devil is attacking me. Lord give me strength as I struggle to provide for my sons Thank you Heavenly Father.❤️

[@Steelblaidd]

Hug

[@JacenCB]

Super value Colton Miller - yes I really appreciate the straight forward no-nonsense responses that are clear and concise and accurate.

[@sbg-golf]

I'm here for the 4 hour videos, where are they?

[@HickSquatch]

The concept of separate individuals, One in purpose should not be that difficult to comprehend. I use this concept when discussing relationships: two individuals becoming One, Together more than the sum of the individuals. A little different with the Godhead, but similar concept. And it’s repeated throughout the organization of the church: one leader with two supporting counselors. Same as a tripod.

most " protest-ants" have no idea about their own history. and they reject totally the idea of priesthood authority. and they reject the idea that GOD , who they say is all-knowing , can , or could , of his own choosing , actually talk face to face with man. they do not understand ( read edward gibbons' " decline and fall of the roman empire " ) that the doctrine of the trinity was made up of a COMPROMISE at the council of Nicaea by squabbling bishops , brought together by a pagan emperor WITHOUT APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY. there was no inspiration of the holy spirit in it.

[@Soldierboy-u8j]

Amen 🙏

[@titusmckoygc6628]

Problem with your conclusion is one the emperor had nothing to do with the outcome of the council. The council decided that the trinity was true doctrine and Arianism (belief that Jesus was a created being taught by the bishop Arian) was heresy. The emperor actually didn’t really like the outcome because all the bishops told Arian and 10 of his followers that they were excommunicated. The emperor actually pitied Arian and gave him influence and it took centuries for the church that Christ founded to combat that heresy. Two you rightly point out that the church has authority but what you are failing to realize is that belongs to the Catholic Church as she is the church Christ founded. Scripture tells us in 1 Timothy 3:15 that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. If it preached false doctrine (lies) then it can’t be. Also Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead the church into all truth. If the church was preaching false doctrine then what was the Holy Spirit doing for 1800 years? This would also show that Jesus lied, and failed to guard his bride from error. This would also mean that the gates of hell prevailed against the church for 1800 years since in Galatians Paul warns us that anyone who preaches another gospel than what they taught they are anathema. When the church speaks Christ speak since he is her head and she is his body much like how when your mom speaks to and instructs you it’s as if you dad spoke and instructed you since they are one flesh he her head and she his body. Christ promised to never abandon his church/bride. But that is what Joseph smith teaches.

[@nataly140]

@@titusmckoygc6628 When the revelation is given - it is given to the prophet. If Peter was the prophet (as Catholic church claims) then why John got the Revelation when Peter was still alive? Peter was the one who should have received the Revelation, not John... just something to think about.

[@kobidog4432]

The reason John received revelation instead of Peter because John will live to see when those revelation will fulfill Peter will soon go to the other side of the veil

[@nataly140]

@kobidog4432 and revelations are still have not been fulfilled. John is still here?

[@davidstarr3566]

If you believe in the Trinity Doctrine then after Christ prayer in John 17 would make his Apostles a part of the God head so it would no longer be a Trininty.

[@SacaPuuntas]

As a kid growing up in a Catholic school, I always imagined the Trinity as being separate. It wasn’t till later that I adopted the whole creedal aspect of it through catechism. Basically I was indoctrinated with false man made doctrine when I had it right all along as a child.

[@briannicholls2628]

Colten - thank you! Brilliant discussion ...wow, his last line, what a colt we live in😅 we are asked to question and pray and learn from God

[@robertrobinson6542]

I love John chapters 6, 7, and 8. There is so much there that talks about the relationship between God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. My favorite part is at the end of what I have posted here when Jesus asks why they cannot understand the simple speech that he is using to explain. -God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. … 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. … 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life…. -Jesus declared the will of God, and God, the Father sent Jesus Christ. John 6:44 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 7:16-18 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. -The doctrine, that Jesus taught, was not his own. Jesus came to glorify God the Father. John 7:28-29 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me. - Jesus did not send himself. Why did he cry this? Because they could not understand the simple speech. John 8:18-29 … 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. -Jesus taught what he learned from God the Father. John 8:38-43 … 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. -It is pretty simple. Why do you not understand the simple speech? Jesus did not send himself.

[@strplngwarriormom]

As the Trinity comes from the creeds - it is extra-biblical

[@outof_obscurity]

Yup. Pretty ironic when they say we can't believe anything outside the bible, yet the only description we can find of the Trinity is found outside the bible. 😂

[@angelalewis3645]

@@outof_obscurity Nailed it! 🎯

[@markoconnell804]

No. This is false teaching. You literally have to not read the Bible to believe this lie.

[@eirrenia]

@@markoconnell804 You have to twist scripture away from its plain reading in order to extract support for the greek-philosophy-originated concept of the trinity. We read the bible just fine. We are, in fact, _heavily_ encouraged to study the scriptures every single day, including both Old and New Testament.

[@markoconnell804]

@ will God want his bride to be married to another God while married to Him?

[@meghanschwanke1133]

BTW - Terryl and Fiona Givens have a great history of the Early Church in "The Healing Christ" as well as why the language we use today is from the Reformation- not the original meanings from Hebrew and Greek

[@lelandtm]

"That's one of the curses of worshiping a triune idle, fireants"🤣

[@my2cworth4U]

When you realise the restored gospel in the LDS church is the restoration of the Essene Gospel of Peace, the teachings, doctrines and temple performances make sense.

[@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i]

How do you get past the Mormon belief that God and Jesus were both once men who became exalted?

[@CryptoCPA]

@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i Easy….because that’s not a “Mormon” doctrine

[@alejandrovalenzuela377]

@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9iwas Jesus not once a man and became exalted after his resurrection?

[@bradleyhowell4155]

Totally

[@my2cworth4U]

@@DogFacedPonySoldier-p9i why is this difficult to comprehend? Makes sense. Perfected man. I don't go past it.

[@LatterDaySigma]

Love you guys (+ Colton 💪) and thank you so much for ALL that you do! God Bless you brothers! 🙏🏻

[@Steelblaidd]

The Biblical Unitarian channel, Transfigured, has some great resources on the development of the Trinity. I saw a great question on the Missionary Discussion channel where he presented the following question "when you say they are one substance is it like taking a bowl of cake batter and pouring the same batter into two pans, or is it all the batter in one pan?" Final note Athinasius was so set on the Trinity because he thought if it was not true Christ's Atonement couldn't make us gods. His statement "God became man, So that men could become gods." Is on Wikipedia. It's not hidden.

[@angelamartin4758]

I've never found the word Trinity in scripture. Godhead is in scripture, it is absolutely more than three.

[@JudeOne3Four]

Godhead is a deliberate mistranslation of the Greek word Divine/Divinity. It only occurs 3 times in Scripture >> Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9. Godhead comes from the occult and not the Scriptures.

[@dane_with_swag]

If I remember correctly, the Johannine comma was a commentary written in a manuscript, but that other writers mistook it for being a part of the scripture. Before you knew it, it had become its own bible verse

[@couragecoachsam]

I had never heard of this. Pretty interesting. I’m guessing the defense for this is something like it doesn’t matter even if it isn’t original because it affirms what the Bible already teaches: the Trinity.

[@FirstLast-k7p]

Another great reference is "One God Bible: New Testament" which cites many of the scriptures mentioned in this video along with so many others and has an appendix that talks about Biblical "oneness."

[@dane_with_swag]

I don't know if we need to even try defending john 1:1. After all, the BoM says that they are "one God without end" many times. We just realize that the word "God" is a goodhood/a triad of Deities (not surprising that the hebrew word for God is the plural Elohim, eh?) and not an essence. On the contrary, the verse supports our understanding by saying that He also was TOGETHER with The Father, In other words seperate beings

[@annbraswell6354]

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

[@SA-gf7uf]

Had a catholic friend ask what the difference between our faiths and I went straight to our belief in the god head. He told me that he believed how we believe and I just said, well your church doesn't. And was told by a JW that Jesus has no body and I said, but he was resurrected. He said oh well he dropped his body in the ocean on the way to heaven, yup that's in the Bible 😂

[@angelalewis3645]

Haha! 😂

[@laynehansen6216]

I served my mission in Arkansas. Was told I'm going to hell thousands of time.

[@HickSquatch]

I love and use the trinity often: bell peppers, onion and celery. Cajun and Creole cooking’s “holy trinity”.

[@kingfamilyrc5376]

Hahaha!! MY BROTHER!! I'm also from Sanpete County!! I'm from Fountain Green UT which is North Sanpete and Manti is South Sanpete, but I still feel extra close to my Sanpete brother here!! I learned about the Council of Nicaea not too long ago, they literally voted on the idea of the trinity. Good discussion guys!!

[@ScrivenArt]

I just read the Nicean and Athanasian creeds this morning and then read the current Young Women’s theme. It’s so much easier to just believe we’re a family. Thanks for so much information. By the way, I like the short clips for sharing and the long sessions for my learning. The clips require more scrolling when I want to listen to a specific long session again. Can they be separated somehow?

[@JackWebb-n6l]

I just want to point out that there seems to be a slight misunderstanding regarding the evolution of the Trinity doctrine. The doctrine was substantially present before Nicaea, and I disagree with the proposition that the Nicene Creed is not clear on the Trinity. I would also disagree with the statement that someone reading the Bible outside of Church history or Denominational influences wouldn't see the Trinity in scripture. I come from a family with roots in the Jehovah's Witness religion (a unitarian faith), but I ended up concluding that the Bible does support the idea of a Triune God. Of course, I was aware of what different denominations and church fathers believed, so I suppose you could argue that I was also biased. However, I would truly say that you should look into the gospels carefully (recognizing that none of us are free from preconceptions or biases). Reading verses like John 1:1, Isaiah 6, John 17, 2 John 10:30, Matthew 28, and many others definitely convinced me that the Trinity is NOT merely a 2nd or 3rd-century invention. Whilst I understand we must rely on scripture I also think that the interpretations of those closest to the time of Jesus can offer unique insight. With nearly all early Church fathers that I have read, the ideas of Jesus' Divinity and the Triune nature of God are either explicitly or implicitly supported. Lastly, I would like to suggest that the Trinity, at least for me, is the ONLY WAY to reconcile those verses throughout the Bible pointing towards the existence of one God, and verses such as those I have referenced on the Deity of Christ. I did enjoy the video and think the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are interesting indeed, but unfortunately felt, at least in this video, that some major mistakes were made in the fundamentals of what and why Trinitarians believe. I understand there are responses to the points I made, and whilst I think the Trinitarian side of this conversation is most scripturally accurate and concurrent with Christs teachings, I am suggesting that a greater understanding of the doctrine may have benefited the discussion. It seemed like the points made were somewhat surface-level and failed to address any real issues with the Trinity, instead straw-manning any real Trinitarian arguments. Thanks for all your work on these videos though, it's great to learn about different perspectives including those we disagree with.

[@JackWebb-n6l]

Sorry, in regards to the final comments on John 1:1 I completely disagree. I won't ramble on more but to put it simply, nearly every single scholar translates it as "the word is god". Saying it is more accurate to translate it as "divine" or "a god" as Jehovah's Witnesses do is completely misleading. If that were the case, there would be some disagreement amongst major scholars and variance between Bible translations. If you look at ALL of the most popular and recognized Bible verses, your interpretation of the Greek is untenable. Even your KJV translates it as "the word is God", not "the word is divine" as you say the verse means. You are unfortunately just reading a minority opinion amongst scholars (and I mean extremely rarely held amongst anyone qualified) into the text. The text says "god" and there is no reason that we should read something else into this. I have heard the response many times and the JW Bible actually has a different translation of this verse, but I think the completely unanimous agreement amongst scholars on this verse and the lack of variance between translations makes it clear that John 1:1 is a clear verse (not the only verse) in support of the Trinity.

[@JackWebb-n6l]

Definitely subscribed though, an interesting watch! :)

[@robca6013]

@@JackWebb-n6l "God"/"god" is not a Name.... Jesus Christ aka "The Word" is called "God" in John 1 :1 and yet Jesus Christ as a God has a "MY GOD" in John 20 :17 , Revelation 3 :12 , Matthew 27 :46 , Luke 23:46, Mark 15 :34 Hebrews 5 : 7 During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, HE OFFERED UP PRAYERS AND PETITIONS WITH LOUD CRIES AND TEARS TO THE ONE COULD SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, AND HE WAS HEARD BECAUSE OF HIS REVERENCE. ( John 20 :17 ...) Thus Jesus Christ Who has a, MY GOD, Who is also our "your God" and that "MY GOD" is His and our Heavenly Father and so of course Jesus Christ, the "Son of God" didn't plead with what is claimed by trinitarians to be His co-substantial "My God" or His same substance "My Father"!

[@Jer-zp7zv]

@@JackWebb-n6l A modern day apostle has stated "Anyone who rejects an embodied God rejects the mortal and resurrected Jesus Christ" Jeffrey R Holland. Jesus Christ is the literal son of God is the creator of the earth and he today as his spiritual and natural father, your spiritual father Jack our heavenly father have a perfected body of flesh and bones. Every person who ever lived or will live will have that perfected body and be resurrected because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Isn't that wonderful thanks for the comment Jack.

[@pajabesa2492]

Jesus said that "all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

[@alexanderv7702]

Why is the Church endeavouring to get into bed with apostate Christianity?

[@brandonjaquish]

@@pajabesa2492 Jesus never said that. Can you point me to where he did say that?

[@dougbrown8331]

@@brandonjaquish it’s in the account of the first vision of the Profit Joseph Smith .

[@brandonjaquish]

@@dougbrown8331 can you point to me an unbiased place that we see Jesus say that? I don’t believe that Joseph Smith had any visions of Christ.

[@dougbrown8331]

@@brandonjaquish we are talking LDS doctrine here, that means that it is further light and knowledge given to us through Gods modern day Profit, so an unbiased source I guess is unavailable. If you don’t believe that Joseph Smith is a modern day profit that’s something you have to work out. Go to God in sincere prayer and ask him for help and guidance in finding the answers to the questions you have. If you really want to know he will make the answers known to you! And when he does make them known you won’t be able to deny it anymore than you can deny that the sun shines.

[@chinchillax1483]

Sanpete County for the win!! Nice to see one of us is making a difference!

[@stephensmith9665]

Jesus said, "Whom do men say that I am?" And his disciples answered and said, "Some say you are John the Baptist returned from the dead; others say Elias, or other of the old prophets." And Jesus answered and said, "But whom do you say that I am?" Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Logos, existing in the Father as His rationality and then, by an act of His will, being generated, in consideration of the various functions by which God is related to his creation, but only on the fact that Scripture speaks of a Father, and a Son, and a Holy Spirit, each member of the Trinity being coequal with every other member, and each acting inseparably with and interpenetrating every other member, with only an economic subordination within God, but causing no division which would make the substance no longer simple." And Jesus answering, said, "What?"

[@sojourner-kl6ei]

Does God pray? Does He sleep? Can God grow in wisdom? Can God die? If you say yes to any of these....you have a different God than the one written about by the prophets and the apostles.

[@stephensmith9665]

@@sojourner-kl6ei Huh??

[@mondesir3673]

This was so great! You guys need to have Travis on, he is amazing!❤

[@2u43]

Thanks for this video guys. I have watched it three times. Wonderfully informative and inspiring.

[@lisagreen7778]

Proud Snow College Badger living in North Little Rock here - the FIRE ANTS are UNREAL! Every insect on the planet is born in Arkansas I swear 😂 Job security for you Colton!

[@allandrone330]

The Johannine coma was not in early manuscripts of earliest manuscripts of the New Testament, it was added later in late medieval manuscripts. People should really research the johannine coma there is a lot of great scholarship on it.

[@Skyrimwife]

Let’s think like a trinitarian here… If we are to be one as Christ and the Father are one (John 17) and Christ is one with the Father in a triune being/substance/essence in homoousios, wouldn’t that logically conclude that we are to be in the triune homoousios, or to be God? Or at least like God if you don’t wanna take it that far?

[@alejandrovalenzuela377]

It is morphed from a trinity to a zillionty

[@NolanStaark]

ive brought that exact point up in trinitarian discussions, when christ says to the apostles become one with me as the father an i are one. it literally cant work unless we all become homoousios or they are seperate but one in will. they dont know how to reply.

[@truthfromearth]

The FAMILY PROCLAMATION is the key to understanding the Godhead, and the words of the Godhead are the key to loving and keeping our families.

[@TheRegimentalscot]

Can we put a link to the book Colton referenced please?

[@ConservativeSamizdat]

The Early Church by Henry Chadwick

[@alexanderv7702]

The Apostles in Jerusalem never thought much of Saul of Tarsus; viewing him as an apostate.

[@halodisciple8459]

Paul was an Apostle called of the Lord. His words are just misinterpreted

[@Crikey420]

They would definitely have had love for each other. Otherwise they would not have been the Lords apostles.

[@cheyaweber704]

Awesome conversation.

[@robca6013]

The "Bible Belt" takes a right angle turn that extends up into what was my mission which was in Minnesota and Wisconsin!!!!

[@jnwhaley]

What a great video! Loved it!

[@AlecSorensen]

So the difficulty with the scriptures about apostacy or falling away, they don't specify that it will be complete. So an LDS person reads them, and think it refers to a complete falling away, and your creedal Christian just thinks its referring to the falling away and false teachings mentioned in the epistles. What creedal Christian's don't realize is that this very ambiguity is evidence that the Bible can't answer all your questions, and why some other form of verification is necessary, either in public revelation (more scripture, prophets and apostles) or in private revelation (the truth is not in the Bible, but in the inspiration of the Holy Ghost as you read it). Unfortunately, the ambiguity is so threatening to traditional assumptions about the Bible (Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant) that people will either 1) just deny ambiguity is a thing (this clearly means only exactly what *I* think it means) or 2) claim it's ambiguous or unimportant. Most people will neither have evidence for either claim, but nor will they be willing to admit their interpretations are an assumptions and not evidence-based. All you can leave them with are the questions. Where does the Bible say explicitly that the falling away will not be complete? How can this be unimportant? In one interpretation, none of the creed-based churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) can be true, and something like the LDS restoration is required, but in the other the truth must still be somewhere in the creed-based churches.

[@Centered1]

I wish I got the fire ants joke . I was laughing with y'all, but didn't know what was funny. 😁

[@TheHappyNarwhals]

I live in the south fire ants are no joke. Having said that it was hilarious because the guest said that fire ants were a plague on the south (because of the Protestant view of the trinity) . If you think of Moses and the plagues God put on pharaohs people so Pharoah would let His people (Israel go)- God sent flies, frogs, etc. so to me the joke was God was punishing the south for their changing of Gods nature (the trinity) by cursing them/us with fire ants! It was pretty hilarious. (My interpretation of the guests joke, sorry his name is escaping me)

[@bestbooksforbrainswithkayl6022]

I have used 1 John 5:7 in defense of 3 separate beings actually because it distinguishes between the Father and the Word being different. But the very next verse (8) is like the nail in the coffin as to what was meant in verse 7

[@giovannifarinacci5946]

Thank you for the episode. About John 1:1 the verse probably would make more sense if thought of as "and the Word was God[ly]".

[@My_planet_has_rings.]

Did Kamala write the Nicene Creed?

[@CryptoCPA]

😂

[@lukedriscoll793]

This is an underrated comment 🤣🤣🤣

[@ronniejohnson1302]

I am convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and really the truth in the Bible scriptures converted me in reading the scriptures besides praying after reading the Book of Mormon.

[@jillruble52]

Thank you for this. Very enlightening. I wish that one of you had brought up that we believe in the Doctrine of Divine Investiture of Authority.

[@davidmickelle7326]

How could the tri-une God descend below all things if he never stopped being all of the aspects of God? If he himself didn't go through the veil of this world and have to work by faith as defined by scripture...growing from grace to grace line upon line precept by precept...there is no learning if you are all of the trinity all at once. It is only feasible if you have a premortal Christ that goes through the veil of this world forgetting who he was but growing to have a wifness of his role in his Father's plan of happiness.

[@Jer-zp7zv]

awesome David

[@cartercromar3980]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[@stuffa01]

Also an interesting question to ponder is, who exactly is the Holy Ghost? He is a distinct being with no body. We know about the Father and the Son. We also know who Adam was. Ive also heard some interesting theories about the Holy Ghost. And when will he receive a body and be resurrected?

[@Crikey420]

He is one of your best friends in heaven

[@Emma2010929]

Great question, I’ve asked myself. I don’t think we have any information in the scriptures about who he is, just what his purpose is.

[@timnaylor]

I really feel your mission, studying Hebrew, and history, et cetera. One gotcha. Elohim in Genesis 1 is singular (like when the queen uses the royal "we" to refer to herself) we know it is singular because בָּרָ֣א (bara - to create) is third person masculine singluar. In English "he created" and "they created" both use the same form, but in Hebrew they are different words. בָּרָ֣אוּ (baru) is the form of the plural. So even though the word Elohim seems to be plural, it is singular. Now in Psalm 82:6 is definitely a different story (82:1 is masculin singular, but 82:6 is definitly 2nd person plural)...a better hebrew argument is the use of אֶחָד from Deut 6:4 and Gen 2:24 where clearly two beings (Adam and Eve) become "one" flesh.

[@deborahrhodes4892]

ONE in Purpose... which is "To bring to pass the immortality and Eternal Life of Man".

[@hollydudley9200]

I enjoyed this podcast, it was very enlightening. On an unrelated subject, i was wondering if you had done any research on the Nemenhah record, Chief Cloudpiler or Chief Midegah? I am just curious on what your take on this record is? I have not read it but it sounds very interesting, but it is really hard to discern whether it is true or not as it is not easy to get guidance from the spirit. The thing I am concerned about is that both these chiefs & those who support them are very critical of the church claiming that it has fallen into apostasy.

[@Zeett09]

I’m not LDS but I always thought the traditional Christian trinity explanation was super confusing. The LDS version is much less confusing. However, the LDS introduction of sealings and family structures continuing into a 3 tiered heaven was also very confusing. The traditional Christian version of heaven is very simple compared to LDS. But as with both it just comes back to…don’t worry about the confusion it will all be worked out in the next life.

[@bambie1830]

Lds have the biggest heaven. They don’t condemn anyone to an eternal torment. Kinda sweet

[@Zeett09]

@ Where do evil people end up in the LDS after life? It can’t be in heaven. It’s called something else. Anyway I’m saying the 3 tiered LDS heaven system is confusing much like the confusion with the traditional Christian definition of the trinity. In both cases just a few questions results in…I know it’s confusing but don’t worry. So I’m not concerned about the details of either the way the trinity works in traditional Christianity or the LDS tiered heaven system details.

[@cubic-h6041]

Except the three degrees of glory is in the New Testament (one of Paul’s letters, sorry I forget which one) and the trinity is not.

[@Zeett09]

@ can anyone tell me, a non LDS person, the specific difference between the three degrees of glory and how one obtains each degree?

[@cubic-h6041]

@@Zeett09 I can, but give me some time, I’m eating dinner

[@myronrichardson3291]

• I think we are brainwashed, but I think everybody is brainwashed, unless they were raised by wolves. • Here is how I understand the Trinity. The Father and the Son communicate in the tongue of angels by the power of the Holy Ghost (2 Nephi 32). Because the tongue of angels is a perfect language, there is 100 percent communication, so that what the Father knows the Son knows; what the Son knows the Father knows, completely. Pair that with the Son submitting His will to His Father, in essence adopting the Father’s will as His own, the Son wants what the Father wants, and the Father wants all that the Son wants. In other words, They are of one heart and one mind. • They are not of one body but of three bodies, two of which are physical and the other is a Spirit. But, as President Holland said in the speech you quoted, “in virtually every other way they are one.” And so are we when we complete the same process.

[@brainhunter1000]

The Trinity is actually remarkably similar to the god head. It states they neither blend their persons (3 distinct physical entities. You would see 3) while also sharing the same essence. Perhaps you might say spirit here. And it is the spirit portion that is God. But we would say three separate physical bodies like them, but we also think their essence is separate (intelligences) but are one in purpose. So essence for us is purpose instead. Like ours still makes more sense, but the trinity doesn’t seem so crazy after all once you get what they say. Note like them, we also say all three are uncreated, immeasurable, and, eternal. But the divinity is where we really differ. This essence is one means there is only one God possible in the universe. It’s why they gave a hard time with us becoming Gods. Because God is an essence, not a status or state of being. It is unique ‘matter’

[@valeried7210]

I'm just reading the comments as I begin to watch the video, but thank you for summarizing why Christians believe your view is heretical. We do not believe in the same God. God is holy other yet invites us into his family. That is an awe inspiring thing. There is no being that is like Him. The Bible is quite clear. "there is none besides me." You break the first commandment and just did in this comment.

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

@@brainhunter1000 It’s interesting that they say you cannot understand God, He is a mystery… while putting God in a constrained box. I don’t believe God is afraid of His children progressing at some point to be as He is. (Inherit all that He has, become joint heirs with Christ.”-Bible) True form of worship is emulation not adulation. I believe God would rather us, His children progress to become like Him, that would bring Him the greatest joy and glory. He’s a creator. He doesn’t sit around all day wanting His children to praise His name as He sits around on His throne. That is Satan’s desire. “Worship me.” God is busy helping us learn and grow. He’s busy saving us, He’s busy creating. We will for-sure be praising His name day and night, but I don’t believe He created us for that purpose, I believe it is because He loves us so perfectly and His Plan is so perfect for us to become like Him. As a parent watching my kids from birth progress to become successful adults has been the greatest joys of my life. No career or money could bring me greater happiness. I think God our Father feels the same. He can create ANYTHING He desires! ANYTHING! Vacation spots, fast cars, peace, ANYTHING! The only thing He refuses to take from us is our hearts. And that’s all He wants so He can help us become as He is. The happiest Being in the universe. ❤️☀️ God is just that good!

[@Haydenwootwoot]

Hey! I’m answering your call for responses from Protestants/evangelicals/christians, so here I am. I think you guys seem cool and funny and I could tell you guys are having a lot of fun, but to respond to the video itself, i think there are a lot of problems. One thing I heard over and over again was “the original Greek says…” Amen, we should always be going back to the original languages. Right there with you. The problem is, going back to the original language isn’t as simple as finding the word and what it means. Christians are guilty of this too so I’m not trying to single you out, but there’s a phrase that goes “a little bit of Greek is a dangerous thing.” Ancient languages, whether Greek or Hebrew, are complex and need lots of study, not just the definitions but structure and grammar and all that, as well as the context the word is found in. A specific example from this video is the 2 Thessalonians text and looking at the word for the great apostasy and then saying therefore it’s straightforward that it’s talking about the great apostasy. It’s not that simple. There’s a whole context going on, and that word actually has multiple meanings, and some scholars believe it refers more to a political rebellion than a spiritual one. And even more, in the context of the book, Paul is addressing believers who think the Day of the Lord already happened, and says the great falling away or great rebellion must come first and then Christ will return. I think if the great apostasy really did happen, it would be safe to say that Christ probably would have returned by now. I use that as an example to get into the trinity, because there were many times that tactic was used to discredit the trinity based on original languages. Specifically when you guys bring up John 1. I know he’s not loved in this community and can be a crabby old man but James white who is a scholar in this area does a whole Greek breakdown of this exact passage that counters the conclusion that was put forward here, and with more data. I don’t say that as a smash or anything, but I think it shows that if you are going to attack the trinity which is a dearly held and treasured doctrine that reveals the heart of God and the Gospel and his good nature toward humanity and all creation, you need to at least bring up these counter points or engage them. One more issue I see with LDS friends who struggle with the trinity is trying to fit God into a category. Either God is placed in a category that follows the rules of humanity or of a cosmic being like an angel, but what if God has His own category? What if instead of trying to explain away the reality of the trinity because three can’t be one, we say there’s another category that only God can fit into in which that is true? Michael Heiser’s work on the two powers of heaven is a great place to go because he shows that the scriptures clearly illustrate what we mean by the trinity, how there are cases of multiple Yahweh’s while affirming only one Yahweh, and he does so without using councils or creeds. For anyone reading this who is LDS, I dont hate you and I’m not trying to attack your beliefs. But I do confess that in this video and many others the way LDS speak about us and the trinity, like calling it an idol, is quite honestly disrespectful. And I get it, Christians can be a holes and do it to LDS a lot and that’s not right either. But I just want you to think about how hurt you feel when someone grossly makes fun of a treasured doctrine you have, and re,ever that’s what you are doing when you mock the trinity or even creeds. I do want to say massive respect for reading Henry Chadwick, and I agree with you a lot when it comes to seeing a whole mess. That’s why I do t think using creeds to talk with LDS is helpful at all because it can feel like the bullies of history forcing everyone to go along with their beliefs. I personally don’t believe that but I can see why it feels that way. But I do believe the trinity is thoroughly biblical and Michael heifer has great stuff for that. And one more thing, if we’re gonna judge which church is in apostasy based on the drama and dysfunction found in its history, we’re all doomed. Even LDS. All of us have humans involved and face the trials that come with that. But if the word of God is guiding it, even in the messiest times it can be led by the Holy Spirit. Once again, I say this all with love and no ill will, but as a Protestant believer who listens to you guys and ward radio a lot and LDS history to get more insight and perspective, these are things that I really think need to be said.

[@jordanclegg8538]

Thank you for your respectful post. As a Latter-day Saint, I feel great concern when members of my faith engage in disrespectful representations of other faiths. Of all people, we should be wiser since it happens a lot to us. May God bless you for your example in public discourse.

[@RichardBera-r7j]

Team up of the century

[@NancyBrown-xw8hg]

Dan Peterson has a good explanation of what happened right after as the Creeds were developed.

[@JD-pr1et]

And don't forget the greatest scripture on the separateness of the Father and the Only Begotten Son in the Flesh and that both He and we are of the same divine family: 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. (John 20:16-18) The Father is Christ's Father and our father and The Father is His God and our God. Straightforward and beautiful.

[@herobands1]

That fire ant joke had me rolling. Too funny, I don't care who you are.🤣

[@ToddMarshall-ur5zg]

Did anyone else freak out when they pulled out the razor thinking "NO Colton, NOOOOOOOO!"

[@heatwaveo8]

To me, John 8:17-18 puts the final nail in the coffin when it comes to the Trinity. Jesus says He and the Father are two men, so how could they be of one substance?

[@joshanderson47]

I think maybe, MAYBE one could say that the Trinity is stretching it, but when you get down to all the inconsistencies that exist in the Mormon faith, such as changes in doctrine over time (race and the priesthood, polygamy, and even Joseph Smith's own evolving beliefs on God and Jesus), archaeological and DNA evidences (only "proof" is that you can't 100% disprove anything, but no actual solid proof, etc), as well as some weak arguments for the Book of Abraham, and even the Book of Mormon as a whole (which itself seems pretty okay with portraying Jesus as God -- 2 Nephi 31:21, Mosiah 15, and many other examples)... that saying the doctrine of the Trinity is "hard to believe" or "nonbiblical" seems a relatively weak argument, as somehow mainline Mormons are able to believe all of the other things I listed as well as believe in the Book of Mormon, which clearly is "nonbiblical" with its creation/conception and other teachings (besides it teaching in the divine nature of Christ ;) ), etc. What? It's unbelievable to believe in the doctrine of the Trinity with verses such as John 1:1, John 8:58, & Colossians 2:9, but somehow believable that in 1978, God told the church (without reason, too -- check churchofjesuschrist dot org to learn more -- under Frequently Asked Questions) that the priesthood ban was no longer necessary (without taking into account what was happening socially and politically at the time)? All I'm getting at is it seems like there's a lot of picking and choosing on both sides, so saying definitively that mainline Christians are "brainwashed" or "led-astray" seems a lot like trying to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye without taking the log out of your own.

[@michelleellingson8130]

there is a difference in doctrine and policy. these men are suggesting you ask questions. as a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints i have questioned many things by taking them to God. can i look back with a crystal glass and see history? no, but the spirit has taught me many many times of the truthfulness of this restored gospel. i have such a strong testimony of joseph smith (received by the spirit) of temples, of prayer, of the book of mormon, of jesus christ. on and on i have asked after each of these things and received a witness. that is what matters to me. by their fruits ye shall know them. and this religious organization is dedicated to teaching and serving mankind. i don’t need to dig into ambiguous history and policy to discover my faith.

[@joshanderson47]

I get where you’re coming from, and I’ve felt the same need to seek answers. Through prayer, I’ve come to feel that the Trinity isn’t just a complicated doctrine-it’s actually how God reveals Himself in scripture. When I read verses like John 1:1, where Jesus is both ‘with God’ and ‘was God,’ or John 8:58, where He says, ‘Before Abraham was, I AM,’ I feel that God confirms the truth of the Trinity directly to me. Colossians 2:9, which says ‘in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,’ reinforces that belief. I know there’s a belief in the Great Apostasy, claiming that the original church fell away and corrupted doctrines like the Trinity. But in Matthew 16:18, Jesus promises that ‘the gates of Hades will not overcome’ His church, which to me is a clear assurance that His truth wouldn’t be lost. Historically, early Christians-leaders like Ignatius and Justin Martyr-were affirming Christ’s divinity and the unity of Father, Son, and Spirit very close to the apostles’ time, showing that beliefs like the Trinity were established early on. Personal feelings are powerful, and I respect that your convictions come from a similar place. But feelings alone can be unreliable, and I think that’s why scripture encourages us to test teachings and look to the Bible and history, not just rely on our own sense of what feels right. For me, the Trinity is rooted both in scripture and in the history of the early church, and I can’t ignore that.

[@Jer-zp7zv]

@@joshanderson47 Josh we fully believe those 3 scriptures and reconcile them completely but there are 35 other scriptures which totally obliterates the doctrine of the trinity. Jesus Christ is the literal son of God. He was not praying to himself. We could go on for an hour using the scriptures and you stick with those three which we actually believe? Have you ever read John 17 when Christ made that intercessory prayer to his Father in Heaven and prayed that the apostles would be one as he and the father are one he was not praying that they would jump inside of Peter. John 17-3 You Josh and I are spiritual children of God and as his children can become like him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

[@cocadean]

the LdS Godhead makes most sense. that hurdle… i suspect once the condition of trying to read the Bible through the lens of the trinity is removed, people can read the Bible and actually understand what is going on - most notably, why Jesus had to do what He did.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

How did people in the church come up with the idea that anytime someone goes up into a mountain that it means that they are talking about the temple? When Moses went up the mountain to see the burning bush, he was going up the mountain to see the burning bush. I am having a hard time all this new idea stuff that so many members are coming up with.

[@StayAliveQuestionEverything]

Great question! I don’t think church members “came up” with that… in prior episodes scripture historians explain where this ancient notion comes from. They explain the way symbolism was specifically used in ancient Hebrew writing and orating and what the original Hebrew words were that were being used and their meaning. They even speak about the very situation you mention, Moses going up the mountain and all the specific details that were recorded about that! I’m a huge fan of questioning things, and therefore your question, and I think if you keep digging you will be delighted by all you can find on this subject. ✨

[@nataly140]

Moses went to the mountain and that is when God spoke to him. Moses went up the mountain and got the 10 commandments. Jesus had His Sermon of the Mount on high elevation. Jesus was looking at his Apostles from a hill when they were wrestling with Sea of Galilee. Mountain is a symbol, like pretty much a lot of stuff in the Bible. LDS temples are build on a little hill or there is usually an elevation before construction begins. Symbolism again.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@StayAliveQuestionEverything Thanks for your quick response.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@nataly140 Thanks for the quick response but to be honest I just don't see it. Moses saw a burning bush on a mountain and went up to see it. If it were a temple then who built it. Thanks again.

[@nataly140]

@icecreamladydriver1606 it is symbols, there wasn't an actual "temple building". It is a sign of ascending to heaven. Later the Tabernacle will be built (and Temple of Solomon ) with the same idea, 3 different areas - symbolizing the Ascension to God.

[@madelineholm7030]

You all make me laugh so hard!! Love your videos

[@zigora3]

Using Paul to debunk the Trinity is a bold move

[@jongoff7829]

Sadly, there is no evidence anywhere in the bible for the triune Godhead. Christ prays to his father, he says he does what he saw his father do, he asks to be allowed to pass on the bitter cup of the atonement, but then says he will do Gods will, not his. How is any of this possible if the concept of the trinity is true? It means God has multiple personality disorder. Of course, he does not. God the Father is a distinct personage, as is His Son and the Holy Ghost. When we read the Old Testament in the original Hebrew, we see that it is a plurality of gods who go down to form the heavens and the earth. The very name of God, Elohim, is the Hebrew plural for Elohah. It literally means, 'gods.' Godhood is the adult form of our spiritual selves, and it in no way diminishes or lessens God to have his children grow into Gods anymore than it lessens a man for his son to grow to manhood.

[@Jer-zp7zv]

indeed it is imposable to refute your statement it is so easy to understand from the scriptures yet they stain at a knat and swallow a camel. Thanks awesome now wonder as David Alexander has stated the main thing these apostate doctrines lead to is atheism.

[@can_ye_feel_so_now]

That's why the best way to proof the trinity is with the account of the first vision. Why? Because we believe in revelation. Proving the Godhead just using the Bible is not as effective, because depending on your world view, you can argue against it, and then you never get to a conclusion. Using the Bible to proof the Godhead mostly helps us as LDS. Not so much those that don't believe. Unless that person is really open minded or something.

[@SunnyDays-vl2we]

30:25 I don't know if that was planned or spontaneous, but I love how Colton was able to slide that in there. It literally made me laugh out loud. 😆

[@adamjohnson9014]

I'd also suggest reading the book by Charles Freeman, A New History of Early Christianity.