Combat Mission Units: Tankodesantniki

[@ironchancellorottovonbisma8573]

From my understanding, the doctrine agrees with the "middle of the speed safety slider." But with some interesting execution. The idea is that once the gap has been made in the enemies line and the tank formations flow in, the density of defense will be much lower. So, the scout cars and light forces are the first to rush in, trying to be as close to the extreme speed side of the slider. They're purpose is not to find the location of AT or machine guns, but rather to find where they aren't. A successful armoured car is the one who found no combat, but a path that led deeper into the enemys operational depth. Success is reinforced and the tanks follow with tankodesaniki mounted at full speed, never dismounting, sometimes even for suspected enemy positions. But, one the tanks or tank riders are fired upon, the riders hop of the tanks and, crucially, the tanks stop and blow away whatever fired at the formation. If it's something far away, the tankodesanikis job is just to stay out of trouble and lie in the grass. If it's short range the ppsh goes to work. The whole idea is your creating a dilemma for a weaker opponent that prioritizes speed without losing too much safety. If the defenders choose to fire before you get close, you will have killed minimal tank riders, while the 10 85mm of a tank formation know where you're hidden. The longer you choose to wait to open fire, the more and more powerful the ppsh becomes, the more and more overbearing the tanks get and the smaller and smaller your kill zone gets. Soviet doctrine is all about this type of dilemma. Both solutions are bad for the defender. An important thing to remember is that tankodesantiki are not supposed to be fighting stiff resistance. They are not assualt troops, they are part of the soviet's exploitation arm.

[@damoclesecoe7184]

To sum it up, soviet doctrine is to take Morton's Fork and stab the enemy with it repeatedly.

[@zyavoosvawleilte1308]

After all the campaigns in Normandy with the brits i am sure your mouth is watering at the sight of the volume of fire of those PPSh

[@usuallyhapless9481]

I had to wipe my mouth a few times, yeah.

[@milotura6828]

this tactic is also popular in desert campaigns or terrains because in that situation no one has cover anyway lmao

[@M1912TrenchGun]

Picked up CMRT the other day and played the Tankovyi Desant mission as my first real test after the training campaign. These guys absolutely kick ass and are unstoppable when you're properly supported by the T-34s. Definitely need to go everywhere in platoon strength though, the only radio I had in an entire company belonged to the company commander and I had to have him sitting in shouting range of both platoon commanders so he could relay it to the tanks. Tons of fun playing as them though, can't even stomach the idea of playing Germans because the Soviet caveman murderblob is just so cool.

[@jakeman52]

new hapless vid dropped explaining the intricate details of a game I don't own. excited

[@nicholasshaler7442]

Fun Fact: The Abrams has an officially designated manner of holding an entire nine man squad. Therefore, CMBS, CMCW, and CMSF2 should all have this feature added.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

IIRC, the reason why tank riding wasn't included in the modern titles was that no one would be stupid enough to do it in combat. That seems a lot less certain now.

[@nicholasshaler7442]

@@usuallyhapless9481 Probably the real reason it’s not done is because of the proliferation of cheap BTR’s and BMP’s all over the world, thus making it a good deal less necessary.

[@dudududu1926]

@@nicholasshaler7442 That's why it's too stupid to do in real combat...

[@beewc4050]

@@nicholasshaler7442 IIRC Soviet forces in Afghanistan preferred riding on BMPs and BTRs than riding in them.

[@stratslinger1956]

@@beewc4050 Same for US/Allied forces in Vietnam, crunchies rode on top of the M113s rather than within because in the case of an exploding IED they'd potentially be blown off and out rather than being immolated within

[@colbysimpson5936]

These unit guides are always such a real pleasure! Keep it up man!

[@devilin100]

One of the reasons the Soviets were such a preponderant of issuing SMGs in mass was simply cost. SMGs are stamped, rifles are machined. iirc The difference in cost between was like $15 USD difference in favor of the PPSH and could be produced almost twice as fast. The PPSH and two drums could be issued for almost the same cost as a singe Mosin.

[@DTOStudios]

Fire power was important as well. The Soviets did studies that showed the vast majority of infantry engagements happened within 200 meters and the majority of hits were within 75, where SMGs were far more useful and lighter than rifles. Cost was a huge factor, but the conditions of combat also lent themselves toward heavily favoring SMGs as a primary infantry weapon, really making it a win win for the Soviets both in terms of doctrine and logistics

[@devilin100]

@@DTOStudios Are we just crediting the Soviets with studies the US Army and Royal Marines did in 1946/47 now? Based on a cursory search and prior knowledge of reading internal red army reports: Russian/Soviet small arms development post war emphasised a 500m to bayonet firefight under a "fire supresses, grenades and bayonets kill' philosophy.

[@thesovietwarbear4551]

First! Also love these unit reviews so much, always really interesting to hear you describe their history and organization

[@virus5567]

Got CMRT and the DLC just 2 days ago, playing through some of the scenarios I have had multiple pixeltruppen die to SU-152s while riding tanks, not from the rounds impacting the tanks but rather pancaking the poor souls who got in the way of the round as it passed over top of the tank

[@decimated550]

In the combat mission barbarosa to Berlin game, which I played endlessly 10 years ago, some of my best epic moments were of my t34 and tank writer combined arms company blasting through a hole made by other units and then triumphantly capturing the objective. I'd usually take about 25% casualties because the deeper inside enemy territory I went the more of my flanks would be exposed, but it was so satisfying to capture a victory point with the tanks and their riders, and then end the scenario with infantry deployed Ford and the tanks in the center of the position with their guns facing in all directions

[@studentaviator3756]

I believe that at most combat ranges, the ppsh would be effective at engaging targets tbh. Particularly when considered, they are supposed to be the close-range screen between the enemy and the tanks.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Oh yeah, the PPSH was a very effective weapon

[@d.c.6065]

Great video. Will we get a follow up about Toyotadesantniki?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Potentially. I have somewhat covered Technicals already though

[@mark009vn]

to give desant riders a fair shake, most other battle taxi options only offered marginal better protection (and given how they are most likely open topped, sometimes not at all), so in any cases where desant riders would get massacred, a haft track wouldn't have faired much better.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

True. Though with something like a halftrack you can at least separate tanks and infantry whilst retaining speed.

[@Temeluchas]

​@@usuallyhapless9481 You don't necessarily want such a separation in the Eastern front environment. Even in 1944, the Germans had a serious advantage in artillery. So in most cases, the Soviets had to advance against unsuppressed enemy artillery. In these conditions, riding on top of a tank in the first echelon can be the safest position for an infantryman - you have a decent chance to get through a barrage area before the barrage even lands.

[@wheneggsdrop1701]

Good job, I know these videos aren't easy to make. Keep up the great work man!

[@scruggs6633]

It's also worth noting that the Soviet embrace of submachine guns came after they experienced heavy losses to them in Finland in 1939. Handfuls of Finns with SMG's took out company sized elements of Soviet troops on multiple occasions. Basically from late 1940 through 1945 the Soviets were continuously producing SMG's because they found out the hard way how effective they could be.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

I did orginally have a little more on the background for the PPSH, but it didn't make the final cut. But yeah: the PPSH is remarkably similar to the Suomi Kp-31

[@kaletovhangar]

​@@usuallyhapless9481Especially earlier PPD-38/40 models. Thing is that many armies before 1939 considered SMGs as some sort of policeman arms,not suitable for infantrymen, so no wonder most often only squad commander had them even after that.

[@legroston3]

I always find these videos so interesting and, I never played CM. Might have to give it a try soon.

[@dadoogie]

Only been thinking about a new unit guide for Combat mission this week. You read minds.

[@uncletimo6059]

eh, the whole "doctrine" was that there weren't enough trucks, and barely any half trucks in the soviet army. once the breakthrough occured, tanks needed infantry support - hence this "tactic". once contact with enemy occurred, the first thing these "desant" troops was jump off the tanks - they were brave, maybe stupid, but not THAT stupid.

[@vaclavjebavy5118]

The no-scare-quotes Doctrine of the US mechanized infantry, equipped with purpose built APCs, was to ditch them the moment contact occurred... Is that and 'eh' 'tactic' too?

[@claudej8338]

Which desantniki themed scenario did you enjoy the most?

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Probably Tankoyvi Desant. It's a good size and the tactical problem is pretty straightforward.

[@claudej8338]

@@usuallyhapless9481 thanks mate! That was a fun one. I'm looking forward finding more of such. I think I've read there's a campaign generator somewhere! Cheers

[@breandank3026]

Are you stalking me lol, I just picked up red thunder 😂

[@ernoldlezzequiele3651]

OOOHH YES ! my favorite videos !!

[@ccccccc95]

Let’s rage! I’ve been thinking of picking up Red Thunder since it dropped on Steam!

[@brucermarino]

Did not the Soviets use a variation of this in which they towed various kinds of sleds behind tanks on which their soldiers could ride providing more cover in some circumstances? Thanks for another great video!

[@armandomarchan7888]

This is a great guide as always! Tho I hope you consider making a video on a more "standard" formation such as a Riffle Battalion or SMG battalion

[@bytekappo]

Nice video.

[@kraanuus]

I love this type of video's, I had always wondered what type of use these troops had in the scale of Combat Mission, could you do one of these videos on the rifle battalion 44 motorised? I believe it's a pretty good unit often overlooked

[@HardLineRival]

Your videos got me to into Combat Mission. Currently figuring out the best way to record the games and wanted to ask that is saving after each action phase really the best and only way to have a chance at replaying and recording scenarios from multiple angles? If you have any other tips please share, thanks!

[@usuallyhapless9481]

I keep meaning to make a video about how I make videos :) Currently, the best way to record games is to play in turn based mode, save each save turn, and then go back to film from multiple angles later. Two other tips I would have are: Make sure you keep notes (what happened in what turn), otherwise you're going to spend a lot of time loading up saves trying to find what you're looking for. Have a script, write it during or soon after your playthrough, then go back and get the footage you need to fit. Doing it the other way round and getting the footage before trying to do something with it is much harder. Hope that helps! ;)

[@HardLineRival]

@@usuallyhapless9481 This helps a lot, thank you!

[@football_Habbibibi]

Does anybody know if Bf is gonna devolp a new CM that has improved graphics and stuff, like the game is so fun but I wished it looked better

[@artemisfowl7191]

British Paras in CMFI have a pretty high percentage SMG, not universally but at least 6 of 10

[@usuallyhapless9481]

They do. There's also the Independent Para Coy in CMFI which has loads of Stens and 2 Brens

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Shame that none of them are carrying the red flag of the USSR, like in the films and seen in berlin pictures, it would be quite an interesting sight to see.

[@soapgunner7988]

You should do some on the Italians

[@kondor99999]

Are you running any mods? These tank riders look way better than I recall from the vanilla CMRT.

[@usuallyhapless9481]

Not any texture mods. IIRC CMRT orginally came out before the engine update that included shaders, then the winter uniforms etc obviously came with Fire and Rubble a lot later.

[@PNJ452]

😶‍🌫😶‍🌫😶‍🌫

[@johngojcevic8731]

Soviet doctrine video when

[@dudududu1926]

He already did one for the Cold War game.