Army Combat Veteran Reacts to Death Korps of Krieg by Arch (Part 2)

[@Brutalyte616]

The Cult of Sacrifice is based on sacrifice, not suicide. Giving your life for the cause is expected, but getting yourself killed needlessly and not making your sacrifice count is frowned upon, to the point where you will be demeaned if you don't get shot enough before you die. Being really good at your job and being told you would be better off as a factory worker than a soldier is a bitter pill to swallow for most Krieg men since they probably wanted to join the Death Korps and have an opportunity to commit the ultimate sacrifice of giving their life in the name of the Emperor and, hopefully, help fulfill the debt that Krieg owes, but they will accept the duty placed before them and work themselves to the bone, because that is another form of sacrifice. You do not get to nap, play games, get fat, get drunk, or eat good food; you exist to work yourself to exhaustion without complaint or fail, risk life and limb in the process, and you are expected to unflinchingly give your life in the name of the cause in the vague hope it will please the Emperor and bring Krieg one step closer to forgiveness for the sins of the Autarchs. THAT is the Cult of Sacrifice.

[@steelgreyed]

It really is a complicated simplicity that Arch goes on to loop over several times, giving probably 4+ hours, through the series, on simply the differences between pointless sacrifice and meaningful sacrifice, as there are a LOOOOOOOOOOOT of dead in the Vrak's Siege, with a lot of people still shaking their heads on the "why" of it all, as one can easily go, sacrificing one's self and not achieving the goal is the very "no no" pointed at, yet happened all too commonly on Vraks. It was a veritable eternal snowball of dung, that just kept getting bigger and bigger as it consumed others, particularly when it came down to Nurgle vs Death Corp, as the Death Guard are "all" about denying glorious successful deaths. Oh yer still gonna die, buuuuuuut......

[@christiedt9818]

@@steelgreyed that was due to their inept commander making numerous poor decisions and the Death Korp following his orders because crushing the rebellion is a service to the emperor. It's was also stated that the Korp generally resented zeuhkle for being incompetent. As for the seeming pointless expenditure of lives early on you need to look at overall strategy. They set up with defensive plans that were centuries out of date. How else were they going to find the soft spot in the defensive lines than to launch probing attacks? The Krieg commanders never stupidly wasted their men's lives. Every attack and company spent was done to achieve something for the army as a whole, even if that attack failed and the company wiped out.

[@steelgreyed]

@@christiedt9818 You say inept commander, I say the Imperium itself underestimated the local PDF, and sent what should have been an adequate commander for a low priority grind fest, as I agree with you, the Death Corp really doesn't "need" upper command to do anything, as proven "by" the Zeuhkle years and the year in Chaos isolation. To begin with, It was Zeuhkle vs Mamoon, where the former "was indeed" outclassed. And the "moment" Alpha Legion started calling the Defensive shots, it should NEVER have been left in his hands. Inquisitorial/Administorial/Astartial multi-ball drop.... .. In all of this, "if" Vraks had a normal pdf with no history or minimal training, this planet has been invaded several times before the Apostate Cardinal, this would have been a 3 year or less crush.... But no, these guys stood up to, as you put it, non-idiot-Kreig field commanders.... And in all reality the only thing Kagore did differently was point vaguely up and/or down before slamming head back into the wall.

[@christiedt9818]

@@steelgreyed ok let's further illustrate. The casualties suffered in the early war. Compared to the fact that the 88th not only survived being cut off when the main chaos force landed, but did so with enough fighting strength to warrant continuing the war instead of just nuking it from orbit. And that was with the now inclusion of multiple chaos space marine warbands drop podding on their heads and titans. The difference between early war and isolated performance is night and day.

[@steelgreyed]

@@christiedt9818 Total agreement except the night or day part or at least not the way yer describing it. During the isolation they weren't charging defenses designed to kill things much bigger than a dude in a gas mask, they themselves were the ones hunkered down and praying the dude's, much much bigger than them, would be too busy biting each other than to remember they had a war to win. Which is exactly how that played out. Early War, Isolation War, Kagory War, Inquisitor War, Death Corp always did their thing, the right thing. I am in no disagreement there, I just am pointing out the moments where bigger guns than the Corp were required, again I point at the Alpha Legion involvement, the moment "they" were on the theater, and NOT kept in check by the Dark Angels? (loooong before the pain train from the Eye of Terror and its assorted gift bag of multi-flavored Heretical Astartes, cultists, and war engines) Zeuhkle was at that point no longer being outmatched by Mamoon, this was no longer a fight he or any human Kreig Commander could win. This was Puppet Imperial Commander vs Millennia's old Astartes Master of Subterfuge, and that's when so many "other" interested parties should have intervened, not "after" we have Tentacle Titans wanting to hump the command bunker. Until the Apha Legion showed up, the Death Corp would have won that war eventually, despite having a lack-luster top brass, as the field commanders were quite literally covering his weaknesses, despite Mamoon. The Death Corp itself was the only reason the Imperium didn't lose that war flat out...

[@DoctorM42]

Krieg solved the problem of losing their best soldiers in non-stop warfare with promotion by survival, so their generals (who are not allowed on front line ane probably very unhappy about it) are their most experienced soldiers who raised from conscripts to guardsmen to grenadiers to seregeants to leirutenants to majors to colonels...

[@omega5179]

Ah doesn’t that mean only the luckiest soldiers survive to become generals which means their lead by lucky individuals instead of competent commanders who know what they are doing

[@shizuoheiw]

@@omega5179 by luck do you mean those with the Emperor's favor? I don't see a problem here

[@EvilGNU]

Still it is kind of a "urban" or "military" legend that men who rose through the ranks outperform everyone due to "superior experience". Proper military education and training for officers goes a long long way (not to say training can't happen after a field promotion but for the IMPERIUM OF MAN i doubt that very much) . Also the myth that a lot of fighting makes a society strong warriors or adversity hardens individuals... Usually it does the opposite. You go out there and fight for a long long time, you get them nightmares and shivers, your body wears out from constant stress and overburdnen and even if you manage to survive the grim darkness of the 41st millenium to a cushy garrison posting on a pleasure world, you will probably die early of some chronic disease you picked up due to this extremly unhealthy lifestyle.

[@shizuoheiw]

@@EvilGNU who's talking about myths here? when does a kriegsman "retire"

[@Rembanspellsong]

@@omega5179 luck can only carry you so far, and skill and competency can easily be confused for luck.

[@MrDestroyerdm]

To touch on the soldiers who would be considered to valuable to sacrifice, kreigsmen are fanatic, but not stupid. Since the command structure are soldiers who have survived up to that point (which is going to be an extreme achievement) you have to imagine with their training and mindset, your commander is probably an absolute beast that makes the enemy wish they hadn't existed. Dying for the emperor is the absolute best thing they can do, but making the enemy work for it is a very close second. If a mechanical genius is aware of the fact that his 4000% increase in productivity leads to a 300,000% increase in BOTH allied and enemy causalities hes probably going to have some A W E S O M E job satisfaction and is a straight up philanthropist. its a sad mindset, but to the krieg its a grindset 😎

[@mortarion9813]

That final line is fucking gold, mate.

[@crushcommando8637]

For reference, a Whiteshield is a mix of either a conscript, children of guardsmen, and troops who haven't finished their full training yet.

[@greyhunter3271]

And its a Cadian thing. Few regiments outside of them have that destination

[@ineverexist666]

@@greyhunter3271 yep so far i know if there is a vertical white line on the helmet on a cadian, its a new recruit.

[@BelisariusAlKhwarizmi]

Quick point on detail: the _Adeptus Administratum_ are basically the bureaucratic / bean-counter wing of the government of the Imperium of Man. They would have numerous Techpriests assigned to them for obvious reasons but the _Adeptus Mechanicus_ is an entirely different body.

[@deryckferguson3562]

Yeah

[@AbyssWatcher745]

I'm early! May the Omnissiah bless this video. 8:40 Administratum not the Mechanicus there's a big difference. 42:15 Kriegers are NOT malnourished atleast there would be no reason, when he said that the food was terrible it was probably in terms of taste but nutritionally they're probably optimal especially with resources coming in from off world so they don't have to ration like they probably did before. After all they still have to achieve maximum productivity.

[@deathkorpsofkriegguardsmen8488]

BROTHER! how are you doing today on your sector of the line?

[@AbyssWatcher745]

@@deathkorpsofkriegguardsmen8488 Greetings 110-784! 7 kills at this point. The heretics are decent shots but very cowardly. It's easy to rout the fools. Have you encountered more competent foes? I'm never gonna have a chance to sacrifice myself at this point.

[@deathkorpsofkriegguardsmen8488]

@@AbyssWatcher745 good to hear

[@draochvar9646]

I think you are making a non-valid equation here, that being sacrifice=immediate death. That is not how it works though. A sacrifice can come in many forms for a Krieger, for example toiling away endlessly in the machine-shops to make them the best they could be, breaking yourself bit by bit whilst doing it, until you eventually die as a spent husk. Also, Kriegers aren't malnourished. Sure, the food tastes ass but it contains everything a human needs.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

Again we ran into a incentive problem if the Ultimate sacrifice is to die fighting the emperor enemies then being stuck working in a factory would be the worse fate imaginable to a Krieger because whatever sacrifice they make will pale in comparison to what the death core sacrifice. Also another thing worth noting being a man working in a factory would suck because as arch points out all of the death core soldiers are men and all of the woman and children work in the factories so if you are a man who not in the death core you realistically would be shamed or look down upon by your female co workers.

[@draochvar9646]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 the point isn't to die or even to die in battle. The point is to suffer and to break yourself in order to achieve something for the Imperium, in order to rectify the sins of Krieg's past. Sacrifice upon Krieg needs to have purpose. If the sacrifice you made was in vain, it's worthless. So trying to die just in itself is equally looked down upon. And finally consider this: if service in the Korps is so universally praised, how great is the sacrifice of those that devote themselves to the factories instead. They forego the glory of battle, they sacrifice themselves in a different manner. Also, only crippled men in the factory are shunned, as they failed to make the ultimate sacrifice and are now a burden. A man that willingly sacrificed the chance at becoming a soldier, in a society like Krieg? That's some sacrifice. It's basically a society of flagelants but the form that said flagelation takes can vary, as long as it is equally painful.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@draochvar9646 1) no in the death core it is about dying because that (as arch rightly calls it) is the Ultimate sacrifice what is more important to an individual that they can give then their life and saying a kriegman choosing do you not join the core is on par with that or is ‘some sacrifice’ is frankly ridiculous realistically speaking the people of Krieg should slightly respect those who failed to die then those who chose not to join the core at all because at least they tried to make the Ultimate sacrifice. 2) if the core is against needless deaths then why on God’s name do they use human wave attacks I can’t think of a better way to waste men lives for little to no gain.

[@draochvar9646]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 1) Krieg is a world that produces war. As such, they know that arming them is essential. So, if you arm those that go out to fight, eventhough the conditions are horrific, that is your sacrifice. It is about repaying the Emperor and repenting for their actions. If death or even death in battle was the only thing that counted, the Death Korps would never get anything done ... ever. 2)Because that is the tactic that their superiors use them for, because they know the Korps is willing to do it. And no, human waves are not useless, as you'd know if you'd have actually watched the Vraks videos. It very much serves a purpose. Of course it's not the most effective (that'd be sending in the Astartes, supported by Titans, Tempestus Stormtroopers and Superheavy Imperial Armour) but most of the time, Imperial Generals don't have the most effective thing at hand and so, simply grinding everything down with men is the easiest solution. But most regiments would never be willing to pay the price in lives needed to achieve that purpose. If high command were to ask a Steel Legion Army to fight that way, they'd launch him out of the nearest airvent. But a Kriegsman will do it, because it is the lot Big E meant for him.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

​@@draochvar9646 1) you are missing what I am getting at so allow to rephrase myself, I specifically said the death core the army not the people of krieg who want to give their lives for the emperor and this is where we return to the incentive problem for men at least which I should have been more clear on because think about it if I was a man on krieg and from the day I managed to understand words I was taught I have inherited an ancient sin which I must work towards ridding myself and my people of through sacrifice and since the ultimate sacrifice is fighting and dying for the emperor then what reason would I as a man have not to join the death core other then self preservation or my overlord telling me no and the woman and children are working away in the factories so I'm not needed. 1.2) also to add to point one if I couldn't or wouldn't join the core would I not feel as if I hadn't sacrifice more then I could have wouldn't slaving away in a factory be hell or purgatory to me. 2) all I'm going to say is ww1 and let Paul explain why the tactics the krieg used on varks was not sound and what they should have done. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6TQoJanrKdjgbs 54:18 to 56:06

[@scurvydog20]

they sort of tried that breeding thing for the assassin that use nulls. Basically they tried cloning them but the navigators being psychers through a fit and when they control all your shipping you kind of have to listen to them

[@marcuskylemarcuskyle222]

If you don't stop that cloning null BS, we'll be beaching The Pacific Princess on earth. ...Suddenly there was silence in the room.

[@beardthebartender7644]

I mean they totally stopped cloning blanks, totally. Just ignore that the amount of executions didn’t match the amount of subjects, and all the cloning machines were brought off world before being “destroyed”

[@jakejohnson9552]

So it’s something that would have happened if Magnus hadn’t fucked up, and broke the human webway.

[@HTWW]

@@jakejohnson9552 #Magnysdidnothingwrong

[@yeoldchief7711]

Paul needs to learn to listen, they are not malnourished, they receive the intake required to do the work. So they are doing physical work with the exact nourishment required to do that work, so they are probably fit and healthy enough.

[@deryckferguson3562]

Yeah I was thinking the same I feel like he heard "just enough"and immediately assumed that meant they malnourished

[@tnatstrat7495]

"Nulls" being a genetic trait is a theory. The Imperium doesnt actually know how it happens or where it comes from.

[@PeteofHartainia]

Your take on the Emperor "Defending Humanity" is really interesting. The Emperor supposedly existed from the earliest days of humanity and is some sort of psychic amalgam being from 1000s of shamans/priests from ancient times. This would drastically influence what the Emperor would think on the topics of morality and what humans are. He might hold viewpoints from both the distant past, current times, and whatever happens in the future. Given that you suspect transhumans don't count makes the fact the mutants don't count as deeply interesting. If mutants are the evolution of humanity in response to the environments of other planets would (should) not make them any less human. However if the Emperor has an ancient view of humans, it makes sense he would view them as aberrations. As a side note, this would also explain why the sisters of battle get so much of Big E's attention. They are unaugmented humans that are fanatical to the cause of the Imperium. Oh! and that explains why the Thunder Warriors were "thrown away" as well. Huh.

[@Rembanspellsong]

the thunder warriors were thrown away because they became obselete, flawed, psychotic creations that were no longer necessary once the emperor perfected his astartes. The Emperor saw them as tools of war, not as men. And thus when a better tool was perfected, he broke and discarded the old ones.

[@jacthing1]

@@Rembanspellsong yeah while they were physically better then a Astartes they were not when it came to the mental aspect....they were much much much worse. So I'd say probably a good call on not continuing to use them

[@gokbay3057]

That's (adaptation to specific environments) is not what mutants are. It is what Abhumans are and they are accepted as Imperial citizens (even if they are treated as 2nd class).

[@magicalmagicmagician5223]

Thunder warriors were butchers and maniacs who needed to be culled They were a necessary evil that big E created to take care of other greater evils, and once they were done they posed a threat to the normal humans under the imperium

[@poggies7639]

Mutants aren’t the evolutionary response to conditions on a planet, abhumans are. Mutants in 40k are beings whose original genetic state was altered by exposure to the warp (although mutants due to exposure to radiation is possible in universe too but I haven’t seen it come up nearly as much as warp related mutants)

[@stephenjdutton]

A 'Whiteshield' is a new recruit to the Imperial Guard.

[@greyhunter3271]

Only applies to the Cadian Regiments.

[@semi-useful5178]

To the Mechanical Genius: "We are asking you to make the greater sacrifice by sacrificing your chance to sacrifice"

[@deryckferguson3562]

Hehehe

[@lukeanvar3908]

You're theory on kreig being bled dry was right. The average age of a kreig soldier is 15 their training is literally programed into them and then they train until their bodies can matched their programing. The one thing to note is that it doesn't make sense to fight for territory until you realize that in territory near hives is typically large pdf caches and stockpiles. in this case the guards being long dead would make these caches valuable in fueling their war effort and decisive for fighting a prolonged war. Learned this in a lot of black library books. Reason this is the case is because it's assumed that planets will have to hold out until reinforcements Arive and will have to store supplies in anticipation of a full mobilization meaning in a planet with a population of 10 billion with pdf forces of 10 million they will store arms for more than a billion soldiers.

[@chago4202000]

Concerning fanatical willingness to die, I would refer you to the Japanese of the WW2 era.

[@DoctorM42]

"White Shield" is an Imperial guard term for conscript - a soldier in trining who havent' yet earned a honor to bear regiment insignia on his uniform and instead wears the emblem of white shield on the place where regimental hereadlry should go on his uniform.

[@greyhunter3271]

And its a Cadian thing mostly.

[@Punisherfan123]

41:11 Their childhood is very active, their factory jobs are physically strenuous and they start training and practicing as a child to be physically fit enough to be recruited at 14.

[@slackencash636]

You could collect reproductive biological samples before soldiers are sent into combat and only allow those that demonstrated the desired traits to be artificially re-bred into the population.

[@patricksharpe1148]

At 15:20 you talk about select breeding for perfect soldier, the Imperium did something similar in the Afriel Strain experiments. They took DNA from a number of dead heroes and clone them and they did become top tier soldiers, however this being 40K, the regiments field are always wipe out by strange circumstance, or bad luck.

[@omegawilliam95s36]

So the Lamenters as Guardsmen.

[@paralyzedtortoise8446]

The Departmento Munitorum aren't Admech, they're basically the Imperium's logistician corp.

[@VictorCiolacu]

Paul, Adeptus Administratum are not Ad Mec. They are, mostly humans.

[@Punisherfan123]

33:03 They don't choose to, their overlord chooses for them.

[@clan741]

culture doesn't automatically make a better military, its a PART of it but a large part is resources, equipment, and tactical doctrines. Krieg wouldn't be such a powerful force if they didn't have a earth shattering amount of artillery and resources granted to them by the administratum, as well as being one of the few forces allowed mixed regiments, their suicide charges would become sad and pathetic real quick without these things.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

i really advise you try reading "dead man walking" its not a particularly long book but its a great and easy read and probably the best look into krieg you can find its particularly interesting as its written from the perspective of a civilian and a commissar

[@HTWW]

Ah, yes. Lyons' best. And one of the best on Imperial Guard, for that matter (strictly imo).

[@jonarc2403]

19:35 Literally is a thing on krieg. “The cult of sacrifice”. Edit: Nvm, arch said it

[@mcsmash4905]

at this point , seeing a krieg soldier without the mask would be borderline heretical and kinda odd

[@Rembanspellsong]

there was a commissar who ordered one of his kriegsman to remove his gas mask and uniform so the guy could do some covert recon. He almost lost it when he saw how young the guy was.

[@calvinheslop2585]

@@Rembanspellsong there is also a story where a commisar ordered a bunch of Krieg to charge at two chaos space marines to hold them down long enough to have a Lemun russ (don't know the spelling) tank to open fire on the marines killing both the marines and the kriegsman and when they were moving on he saw the quartermaster retrieve thier gasmasks only to see that the kriegsman he had sent to thier death were all kids none older than 15.

[@thedragon133]

I told you, man, back when you were starting to get into 40k, Kriegsmen are f*cking insane. ^^

[@enderoctanus]

Working in a factory makes you the opposite of weak. Even an assembly line would be very taxing on the body. I've worked in refineries, trust me, you might be fat, but you'll be full of muscle if you work at one. And no, you don't have spare time for exercise, so it's all from work. Imagine doing that ALL DAY for a decade. You will be lean and fit at the very least. And if you are being fed enough to provide maximum efficiency, then you won't be malnourished. You'll actually be doing pretty well as far as nutrition goes. However, let's just say, for argument's sake, that you do indeed grow up malnourished, and as a result, have a less developed brain. This would not be a bad thing when you want your soldiers to be extremely impressionable, desiring to impress and please, so that they'll be willing to hurl themselves at a minefield. That sounds precisely like the sort of think Krieg would see as a bonus.

[@RepAlbertThomas]

“The combatants who where exploding vests”! Well executed, sir. Marine Recce here letting you know how much I appreciated that one lol!

[@hadesdogs4366]

Oh and the blind devotion of the Japanese during ww2 also fun fact Did you know that the death korps of Kriegs and the macarbian janisararies anti tank kore is mostly filled with men and anti tank bombs, who’s job it is is to run up to an enemy position plant a melta charge and get the F out and as the added saying goes The emperor is my shield. But a few inches of armor helps as well

[@TommygunNG]

Fun fact: I was in Basic at Jackson in 2006 as well. Hottest summer on record, as I recall. The platoons were all oversized, as the Army was desperate for people. We did have one drill sergeant that even the other drill sergeants said was crazy. He almost sent one guy to the hospital due to "smoking."

[@jakejohnson9552]

So on how they selected for the Krieg recklessness/self sacrifice during the 500 year civil war, I have a theory. They didn’t select for that, they selected for self preservation, and eliminated it. Anyone identified as having more self preservation during training was sent to the above ground trenches. The bravest were held in reserve while those with self preservation were put in the position where they were already dead. All the while guilting those whose were kept in reserve. From there you could further select by sending up those who were ok with being in reserve.

[@thetalkingbear]

You're very articulate and logical. I enjoy hearing your views on these types of videos.

[@nighthawk72j80]

17:09 Hahahahaha! You say that as if the imperium has much ethics to begin with! No mission is to great, no sacrifice to small! Oh, and can you react to Majorkill's top 5 guardsmen regiments? Either that or all guardsmen regiments? I think we can all agree the mortal men get too little credit.

[@irateastartes1206]

I’ve always wondered just how “hot” read radioactive Kreigs tanks and soldiers are. Like if you walked by various gear and troopers with a Geiger counter who would just bury the needle the mechanicus skiitarii who use radium rifles would be the worst but your average kreiger has to be a close second.

[@nicholasso8560]

The bit about commissars' job potentially entailing keeping non-death-cult ideas out was fascinating.

[@HiopX]

last time I was this early, Krieg still a garden world

[@AbyssWatcher745]

Never was. Hive world

[@ivanivanovic5586]

Greetings again. There's a krieg trilogy I managed to locate my copies of, it follows this guy, Jachim Lag/Lagg, and his buddy from doing the basic training in book 1, up to both of their ''fate worse than death'', meaning, getting promotion to commisarial aides at the end of book 3. In the first book, they get the drill sergeant of drill sergeants to train their batch (nasty but fair guy), they train both underground and on planet's blasted surface etc, they get a heavy stubber as their heavy (basically copying ww2 german squad tactics based around the mg34/42), since sergeant didn't find them trustworthy enough of handling neither the heavy bolter (they might jam it), missile launcher/mortar or flamer/plasma/melta gun (they might blow themselves up), plus he called anyone not carrying ammo/operating heavy weapon as ''gun bunnies'', even giving Jachim a direct order ''not to die'' as he was last remaining of the gun bunnies (book 2 or 3). Another possibly interesting tidbit - before setting off from Krieg to the place/campaign of deployment, each new recruit gets to spend the night with a girl/woman (selected for each recruit). Reasons - 1. to leave an offspring in case they die, which given it's Krieg regiments we're talking about, is bound to happen, and 2. each recruit has a ration card, can get a good supply of food/alcohol/whatever is covered by the said ration card, minus the spousal deduction to support the girl/woman he spent the night with in case of successful pregnancy back on Krieg (Jachim obviously gets the said deduction). The problem is, I'm nost sure if said trilogy (plus a short story) is canon or not.

[@kennethbedwell5188]

44:00 this is the difference between fiction and reality. None of the writers or game developers have any military background.

[@demoncore5342]

Honestly, they just go with what sounds most badass regardless how stupid it might in fact be. Like most of the lore could be written by 5 year olds judging by how out of touch it is.

[@mactire9596]

A white shield is a conscript or new recruit in the imperial guard. They are sometimes forced into battle in mass with minimal training. On table top they cost 3 pts. 1pts for the las gun, 1 pts for the flak armor, 1 pts for grenades. Human filling free. They are usually used in human wave tactics. One example is where a Vostroian used them to clear a mine field by forcing them to march in formation over the mines clearing an avenue of approach.

[@davidodonovan1699]

7:57 I'm guessing that maybe Kreig could have had a cold war style building up of military fanatical culture during the 500 years. As in the cold war had Korea, Vietnam, lots of stuff in Africa, the Middle east arms funding, South American dictatorship backing, etc. Also the civil war in Northern Ireland got lots of blackmarket arms from both sides, mainly the USA, hands down, until in the 80's Lybia started flooding them with Soviet weaponry. Anyway Kreig presumably could get into a system of building up vast economic resources for the war effort, think Regan V's the Soviets in the 80's, so that when engagements did come, they could throw everything at them. But be so desperate to have that pay off be successful, disregard human lives, including brainwashing their kids to do so from birth, in the desperate hope that one day the struggle will be over. But over 500 years, that just became the deeply ingrained mindset, of building up massive forces, to throw them at a target, then build up again, to years later throw them at the next target. Again, not fighting all the a cold war of, building up the military infrastructure, for the next massive push into the next enemy underground fortress. And with decades of build up, have that generation sacrifice themselves to make all thkse years of building up pay off. Like the Normandy D-Day, beach landings US meat grinder, trying to pay with blood to make the 1943 building up of military resources to that invasion pay off.

[@benlyon4739]

'Whiteshield' is a term for Conscripts (it comes from Cadia and refers to the white stripe on their helmets)

[@itshunni8346]

It is not that a constant war breeds a society of superior soldiers, its that the society that is created when a people devote themselves to war tends to have better soldiers. A society such as Cadia is an example, you train from childhood to fight in brutal training, their whole society built upon the defense of cadia and the imperium, they don't produce, they only make soldiers and consume. they're kind of like sparta in some regard. Krieg is devoted to war, the societal effects are quite large then an entire nation builds their culture like that.

[@SpacePirateKatz666]

Nice never thought of that.. about society that have been in war for 500 years.. indeed.. a very valuable input from realism perspective.

[@Dragonspirit223]

Their literal Game Trait for DKoK is called Cult of Sacrifice. So yeah, that's fun

[@hadesdogs4366]

A white shield is similar to say the reserves, cadets or even recruits depending on the planet in question, white shields are those in the guard who are considered most expendable

[@gokbay3057]

White shields are mostly a Cadian thing

[@hadesdogs4366]

@@gokbay3057 true I suppose however considering how widespread cadian influences are it’s not really surprising that many worlds have also adopted the white shields as a form of standard PDF

[@davidodonovan1699]

9:40 This is sounding a lot like WW2 Mainland US and Mainland Great Britain. Not being physically Invaded themselves, but being the powerhouses that fuled the war. As in Kreig being mostly the USA's industrial zones of 1942-1945, or more so "Tank Land" behind Ural Mountains of the USSR, rather then everyone in the population just picking up whatever they have at home and charging at the enemy. But it later in this video seems like Kreigs industrial power is sufficient to allow the female population and some of the men to stay behind and work the industrial war output, for the vast majority of the men, to be able to be in the military. That means their industrial power must be insanely good.

[@johnd2058]

19:00 The Lafayette Escadrille accumulated such combat stress that a plurality committed suicide by enemy before the end of the war. This according to their own as-official-as-possible unit memoir. They could have benefitted from such commissars, at least as higher-ranking guards at the hangars to stop them taking off alone on impulse. That's my problem with this whole Death Korps thing: the way I was trained for Army Infantry was that Fear is a good thing. Fear is another tool to be mastered and set to work productively. I couldn't imagine fighting without the natural rush of alertness it gives.

[@krinkrin5982]

I've read a while ago that according to a study done on the posthumous CMOH (I think) recipients, there are certain characteristics that make an individual willing to sacrifice themselves for others. They were usually oldest sons that had been put in charge of their siblings at a relatively young age following the death or departure of the parent(s). In short, they had a position of complete responsibility for the lives of the people they care about thrust upon them. Arch did say that Krieg youth are fed enough to be at maximum productivity. That means they are not malnourished. Considering that they are also working in factories that are closer to the 1920s ones than today, they will develop substantial musculature by simply carrying around stuff and operating tools. Also, as people have mentioned below, Sacrifice does not equal suicide. You are expected to do your utmost for the Emperor and Krieg. It does not mean 'charge the first enemy you see'.

[@TeamKuukiFoodGames]

I think the incentive argument can be framed as "sacrifice" being something you give up, literally, whether it be your life or your desire to give your life -- in the case of the mechanic workers that are instructed to serve in factories vs. in the army.

[@xazelnighthaunterfanboy975]

36:45 I belive they based those drill sergeants on the character of Corporal Himmelstoss from the "All Quiete at the western Front" or atleast they suposed to give same vibes

[@alexadamson9959]

That makes sense. Arch reads a lot of ww2 (and presumably ww1) books. So he’s probably read that book too.

[@xazelnighthaunterfanboy975]

@@alexadamson9959 well Arch pulls his lore from imperial Armour books ( i did not read them) so I presume that the lore about DK training comes from there and Arch just adds colorfull discribtion to that process. The Kriegsman are based on WWI soldiers so the authors must have read atlest some books about WWI to get some inspiration

[@TheLordOfDarkThrone]

You have to listen to Kreig the song by Stringstorm, i believe you would like it.

[@draconisthewyvern3664]

@Combat Veteran Reactions have you ever had one of those super/nutri bars? that’s what imperial nutri thing is but instead of most or a few, it includes ALL of the minerals and vitamins a person needs in a single bar. the kreigs children aren’t malnourished

[@SI-fz1zv]

you are thinking too much on how to select for suicidal recklessness, what you need to think about is how hard would it be to get rid of those who refuse to sacrifice themselves. If you aren't willing to give Krieg your all, best case scenario you get shunned, worst case you get executed. You don't need to select for self sacrifice you just get rid of those that wont.

[@sim.frischh9781]

The Administrorum are NOT (necessarily) AdMech, but often lightly cybernatically enhanced humans, usually stuff that makes them write and read faster and such, improving eye sight, a second set of arms to hold the books they write in ect. Yes, Arch is longwinded in his descriptions, but that´s exactly what got him so many fans. I especially love his talent for understatements.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

you should check out Luiten's new video on the Navigators Masters of the Imperium as they are basically the guys that pilot ships through the warp and it's also about logistics of a galactic imperium. gives you a real good look at the true horrors of piloting a ship in 40k.

[@stetonwalters574]

Krieg guardsman fighting for forgiveness and dying for the emperor Jopall guardsman fighting for money and dying for debt

[@callsightorappu322]

There is a short story that explains how the death krops trains its called "down amongst the dead men"

[@thenecessaryevil2634]

Starvation was the Administratum's plan and why no forces were sent. Most hive worlds have barely over subsistence food production by design. They rely heavily on imports from agriworlds. Policy is often to starve then for a decade or two before sending in a reconquest force.

[@LiamN4321]

I would recommend you react to the series “Star Wars vs 40k” by AFanWithTooMuchTime. It is very well produced, and goes into the political aspects of both sides as well.

[@gokbay3057]

It is so great and just recently got a new episode as well.

[@shizuoheiw]

I don't know for sure that kriegsman are malnourished, considering their lifespans are so short, logistics on food might be pretty good since those who are able bodied are more likely to die before they ever stop being able bodied, even in the factories, I can't imagine they're following osha standards and their healthcare probably has a mercy clause for the disabled if you know what I mean

[@QwertyBoredom122]

I think its fairly safe to say they wouldn't be, not only is the Imperium pretty damn good at recycling shit and corpses into something "edible" but you can bet practically anything that Krieg itself is probably fairly high up on the priority list for logistical supplies meaning that any sort coming in food will be made up even at the expense of other planets if necessary.

[@soulshredder1368]

I know you're very busy but if you ever get the chance to check out arch mordian iron guard Want to hear you opinion on the differences

[@locdang3885]

The "500 year war" on Krieg in reality may be a very slow affair, mostly stalemate, with major assaults being years between, which may explain how the Krieg war industry and logistics could exist and grew. The quality of conscripts did drop drastically (by more modern standards), because although Kriegsmen are tough and good with basic combat skills, they are only used to human wave tactics. High quality troops would be found in regiments like Cadian, Vostroyan, Catachan, and the tiny Tanith/Verghast regiment (one of the most interesting part of the lore).

[@NorthernNorthdude91749]

Kriegers aren't just "human wave conscripts". They're trained from birth as warriors. If you put any modern day spec ops soldier like a SEAL, Green Beret, Spetsnaz or Delta Force operator against a Krieger, the Krieger will win every single time.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@NorthernNorthdude91749 no they really are human wave conscripts trust me I know I’ve watched all of arch’s siege of varks videos and yeah the death core don’t stray too far from the meme.

[@NorthernNorthdude91749]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 Dude, I've been into 40K for over 30 years. I can tell you you're wrong.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

I still find it ridiculous that they had enough men to make 1 regiment let alone 20, just give you all idea why it ridiculous in ww1 which lasted for four years it claimed the lives of 15 or 22 million men and that excluding civilian deaths now imagine a world war that lasted for 500 years there should be no one left.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@NorthernNorthdude91749 then you shouldn’t have any problems explaining why I am wrong.

[@nathanbrown8196]

hello again, for a fairly good depiction of the establishment of the cult of sacrifice, I would recommend listening to bauldermorts tellings of kriegs lore.

[@volk551]

White Shields are the children of Imperial Guardsmen who are conscripted into the Imperial Guard on their shoulder pauldron it's colored White and it's kind of shield-shaped

[@Gorf2003]

I really don't think they're killing each other with the artillery, at least not intentionally. In my mind it's probably intended as a demonstration to the recruits that a well built and maintained trench and bunker complex can and withstand a lot of punishment or something like that.

[@deamonmindgaming2054]

I meant to tell you this the other day but I recently found a channel that tells us about the Primarchs their rise and fall. Along with some of the chapters in 40k don't know if you are interested in it just wanted to tell you.

[@antonymash9586]

Swiss pikemen where famous as some of the most effective mercinaries in europe. Why? Pikemen had a habit of advancing to just beyond pike length and standing around; jeering and vainly poke at earchother ontil one side backed down. The swiss werent like that; they would charge home into melee dispite the risk and as a result generaly break the enemy. Often even before they made contact. i bring this up because in this they are like the Kreige.

[@austindow9850]

Here's the thing, Kriegers don't want to die. They're not suicidal. They do recognize that their deaths can be beneficial and do their damnedest to make their deaths matter. A Krieg Guardsman will not flinch when he's told he's going to be going directly in the line of fire of a machine gun nest or bunker. He'll do his hardest to not get hit and he's going to try his hardest to walk away from that engagement alive. But if taking out that bunker requires him to die, he will not balk and will go gladly.

[@hunterwebb4302]

The Kriegs sacrifice mechanic in game is called the cult of sacrifice

[@scurvydog20]

Um the whole breeding nulls idea is also kind of eugenics. Also not easy to breed a null as they are by definition dislikable. Not to mention two nulls mating would like produce a pariah (think baby everyone saw as hitler) and null normal doesn't seem to breed true

[@scurvydog20]

Actually I just remember they sort of tried that for the assassin that use nulls. Basically they tried cloning them but the navigators being psychers through a fit and when they control all your shipping you kind of have to listen to them

[@ripLunarBirdCLH]

"Honestly, from all we've seen about human beings in warfare - there's no way to supress the instinct of self-preservation." Polish soldiers laugh at that from the top of Monte Cassino.😎

[@antoinedormoy6045]

10:55 astartes are humans modified and trained, so they were humans before being converted.

[@halo12390]

nice, Arch vid plus breakdown from an expert. I'm learning things xD

[@demitius1402]

in old 40k lore it's hinted that the Necrons created Pariahs/Nulls which would make it unlikely for humans to recreate it.

[@lornbaker1083]

Part of the reason why most people in general join the Imperial Guard is because the Imperial Guard actually feeds their soldiers and actually has food stocks. Meaning you're not going to be eating corpse dust which is essentially Soylent Green only without the Soylent and there's no green. Which if you live on a world that is not either an agro world or a pleasure planet. Is going to be for the most part you're only source of food cuz you're probably not going to be anything even close to middle class. And yes corpse dust is exactly what it is. Dried desiccated human flesh repurposed into a type of flour like substance which is then used to produce something similar to spam. So the human species does essentially run off of cannibalism in the far future, as the most the nameless trillions, not part of the military or some sort of higher up Echelon of power such as the ecclesiarchy or the Administration would have access to nothing more than the Bare Essentials to keep them going and what else is a more easily accessible food source in this horrible universe were people die by the billions everyday then human flesh itself.

[@biggiecheese3678]

Also to add it is likely that any kriegsman who had doubts with giving up their life for the emperor would likely be executed on the spot so even if there were ones who did not believe in the zealotry of the death korps they would either be too scared to speak their views or the more likely option not live long enough for their views to spread

[@LordInquisitor701]

I like the point that most of those wars only last for like a couple years why this war last for over 500 so it could be more of a adapt and survive thing

[@crowe6961]

Even in full protective gear, infantry could not stay on the surface of Krieg for long at all without starting to drop from radiation poisoning, until the worst of it dissipated. They had to be constantly rotated, meaning that offensive operations were an absurdly demanding task to put together. Combine that with command and control nodes being decapitated from the nuclear strikes, causing spasmodic rather than methodical warfare, and chronic and critical resource shortages along with this much fanaticism, and you get a conflict that just doesn't end.

[@kriegdeathrider7805]

Interesting fact, you mentioned that you had live rounds shot over your head during basic but they where well above you, that changed during WW2 originally they shot like just above your head trying to simulate being under suppressive fire unfortunately some recruit's would freak out stand up and be directily in the gunners line of fire and while they quit firing the second they realized what happened there's not much they can do about the bullets that left thier gun between the time it took the recruit to get up and the gunner to see him so after what was considered an unacceptable rate of casualties and crippling injurys during basic training in a time when we needed as many men on the front lines as possible it was decided to have the gunners aim substantially higher so if someone does panic and stand up it's the drill sergeants problem not the medics

[@Brutalyte616]

So the thing about the Pariah gene is that it's completely random. Even if you establish a breeding colony of Blanks, you are not guaranteed to get any Blanks out of the deal. This is mainly why they are so ungodly hard to find; there's no pattern to their appearance, and when they do appear, they just make everyone around them who isn't a psyker uncomfortable. The Mechanicus tried cloning Blanks for the Officio Assassinorum, and they had some success, but the clones weren't always stable and were still just copies of a handful of already existing Blanks, so they could never totally isolate the Pariah gene and replicate it. The Mechanicus sought to fix this problem and hopefully help expand the Culexis Temple into a major power against rogue psykers and Chaos, but the Navigator Houses, being eternally scared out of their fucking minds about the mere existence of Blanks, let alone a damn army of them, demanded the project be terminated, every clone summarily executed and disposed of, and the Culexis Temple be moved as far from them as physically possible. The Mechanicus and the Officio Assassinorum complied, but there are rumors that the Culexis Temple is still at surprising strength, and a lot of the assets the Mechanicus were supposed to reclaim from the project were misplaced and lost, with no sign of the Mechanicus being particularly concerned with tracking down these valuable pieces of technology any time soon.

[@tfan2222]

See, a important thing that people don’t mention about the Kreig is that they aren’t frothing at the mouth to die, they are very very willing to die, but they aren’t going to do anything stupid with their lives because it’s a waste of resources and they know it

[@Brutalyte616]

The reason the Death Korps gets praised so much is because they undergo this extremely dangerous training regimen and survive, not because of luck, but because they do what they are trained and told to and do not fuck up, because the alternative is death or severe injury. They might receive some basic training, but they will be expected to learn quickly enough to perfectly utilize that training during live fire exercises, otherwise they will fuck up and die in CONTROLLED conditions, which obviously would not translate well into an actual theater of war. To work off your landmine example, if a Death Korps Guardsmen is to receive training to disarm landmines, they will be told how to disarm a landmine and train with a dummy mine. Then, as a sort of graduation test, they will be expected to disarm a live mine, probably under simulated battlefield conditions, and not blow themselves to Kingdom Come with perfect understanding of the explosive device in question and in a situation where they are expected not to die if they just follow their training the way they're supposed to. The Death Korps have very exacting standards, and not meeting those standards is extremely hazardous to your health. You do not washout of the Death Korps; you graduate or die trying, because otherwise you clearly aren't trying hard enough to be Death Korps material.

[@scottbaase4042]

As a psyop (37F), you don't need brutality to inflict a new outlook on humanity, you need determination and time. The less time you have the more violence, both emotional and physical you need to employ. The brain can be programmd and reprogrammed pretty easily in theory. That is why therapy is a thing.

[@mathewkelly9968]

The selective breeding thing is how the Navigators in 40k work

[@alexanderdewitt1989]

I think you should know that the Imperator was born 8000 years BC atleast that whats Lexicanum says.

[@John2r1]

DARPA is actually working on the concept of removing the fear reflex from future soldiers. So yeah lack of morales is kind of a thing in some sectors of government.

[@Italianchef26]

I know it's not exactly the same thing but when I think about Death Korps of Krieg the first things that come to mind are the Samurai of Feudal Japan. Of course it isn't comparable to the fantasy world of Krieg, but I think the Samurai's code of honor comes pretty close to what the Krieg Corps are aiming for with the whole "death before dishonor" thing.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

Sort of it more of ‘death for redemption, for you and your people’

[@encryptedbyte6997]

The general idea among every Krieg soldier is that, the more your death counts for, the more you’ve helped Krieg as a whole atone.

[@gokbay3057]

8:40 the Administratum and the Munitorum are not AdMech. Also, do not disregard Cyberdongs.

[@PeliRami]

Plus breeding humans not to have footprint in warp would be same way ancients, Necrons and even Tau (who might or might not be under influence of C'Tan). Apparently it's not good way to go either.

[@Crowbars357]

33:37 the issue with your statement about incentives is that that assumes there is a level of individual choice. In the Imperium, that’s a rarity, and practically nonexistent on Krieg

[@SpicyMediaReal]

Part of the problem of Kriegs civil war is that we don't see what industry the Loyalists were able to move underground (same as agriculture, how they chose to handle recruiting, training, and equipping soldiers, raw material acquisition, etc.). Krieg could have received their "highly militarized" status based on how Krieg showed itself. Their military would have left a better impression as stalwart and seemingly unbeatable while their agriculture could have revolutionized imperium agriculture but was overshadowed by how conscripts(?) handled lasguns. If they had industry, who is to say that the ways they vented fumes and exhaust out of the bunkers and tunnels wasn't revolutionary in regards to underground construction.

[@TheRyderShotgunn]

in case no one's told you yet, a "whiteshield" means "fresh recruit," the term comes from the way cadians assigned regimental, company or platoon markings, in that they won't assign fresh soldiers any until they have been tested in combat, until then, where their markings would usually be displayed is left blank and they also have a single white stripe on top of their helmet to denote their status, thus, "whiteshields" if you ask me, though, since cadian flak armor comes in green and their markings are painted in white, blank flak armor stays green, so i'd probably have named them "greenbacks," but i'm not in charge of GW if i were, things would be better. because at the very least, GW would no longer exist

[@Ericshadowblade]

The emperor himself at least is a manifestarion of the pinnacle of humanitys final evolution. An example of what awaits humanity at the end of thier evolution. The space marines, custodies, primarchs.. each one just a step on the stairs of humanitys evolution.

[@calvinheslop2585]

To his point of long periods of warfare not necessarily being able to produce better soldiers to his real world examples I think it was also a case of they had been at war usually with the same people and so had very established tactics that any other army could easily learn and use against them.

[@Archnor]

A bit late, as a suggestion for something different I would suggest that try either reading or listening to "The Lost Fleet" by John G. Hemry under the pen name of Jack Campbell, he's a US Navy Vet having served aboard the USS Spruance (research it if you don't believe me) his book series details a professional officer, thrusted into a 100 year long interstellar war, and has to re-introduce tactics, strategy and Military Honour to a generation that has lost sight of their humanity. The Space battles are incredibly realistic (with just one or two tech advances) and the best that I've listened to. Also I suggest "The Empire's Corps" by Christopher G Nuttall, which looks at a collapsing Empire that has mired in stagnation for far too long, and the survival of the Empire's Marine Corps, which is based off the tenants of the US Marine Corps, and continues to function with the immense honour and tradition of the Service. His book series is extensive (not as long as some like the Horus Heresy), covers a wide range of topics, told through various different storylines (albeit there is at least one or two that are utter political bull, and seem to be a sounding board for his own politics) including the rise of a new superpower that is made up of various trading clans, the story of the Fall of Earth, The rise of a new power that has rediscovered research and education. Christopher G. Nuttall is former military (a brit I think), and reflects in his stories about the surviving Marines, and the battles that they face in the shattered new world. Just a suggestion for something different mind you.

[@TheZellaCatalyst]

They didn't selectively breed. They are just conditioned from womb till tomb

[@tornadohurricane2916]

The emperor what humanity to be a powerful physics race

[@johnd2058]

33:30 We do. Also the Soviets, et al. It's just a matter of preference, of weighting.

[@noquarrel2758]

You know, for someone who knocks on engineers, you think like one. I approve.