Commencal Meta HT AM Review - Hardtail Party

[@nicholkid]

Just for the record if anyone is curious about the meta: I have a 2021 and ride on 'midwest' trails. Mostly hard dirt with roots and very few rocks. I wouldn't describe the ride as harsh at all. So if you don't ride on hard rock all the time, don't worry about the ride quality. With 2.6 tires at 20 psi it is a tank. I barely ever ride over stuff that makes wish for rear suspension. Like he says he's observing the small differences between bikes and giving his first impressions. I'm sure other bikes are more comfortable and have better geo, but unlikely you would be disgusted by the meta if you bought one.

[@BenYorkeMrHardtail]

I ride extremely gnarly trails in the PNW and countless days at whistler bike park and I have been riding the Meta for the last few years. I love it! not harsh! "

[@valeraanovsk1468]

Yeah and also this guy is reviewing 2019 frame, and rn 2021 frame is out

[@dylan-5287]

I think anyone can get used to just about any bike and it will feel normal to them. If you've only ridden a 2001 specialized hardrock, that would feel good to you. You only start to feel these differences after testing tons of different bikes.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

I rented one for 2 days in the Alps in France. I found the ride quality to be pretty harsh and rear end was super short. The bike felt too focused on bike park style riding. I climbed a mountain and descended on it and that short rear end felt unstable when I broke traction on the way down.

[@yamahschector]

One big thing is he knows his bikes. He has trail days on all of the bikes not just demo days. Is this a good bike might be a good bike. So he will find the differences we all may not find. I bought it because it fit nicely for my short size. Plus you can not get a good build on a bike like a Santa Cruz for $2600. For every I always wanted a Santa Cruz chameleon but for some reason it never seemed right this time the time I was able to buy one.

[@ajfuller3369]

I love my commencal meta ht because of how fun it is on jumps and fast flowy trails which is what I love to ride. However it’s my first “real MTB” so I’m glad to hear your thoughts from someone who’s ridden so many bikes for so long. Great video!

[@painteater19]

Love the comment about the "rowdy frat boy that doesn't know any better". Appreciate the thoughtful review.

[@jasonbrownett4262]

Love the channel so refreshing to see a channel all about hardtails. I'm so burnt out with the majority of mtb channels that just review full suspension bikes. I started mountain biking in the early nineties with rigid bikes and then hardtails, I have owned a few full suspension bikes and a couple were ebikes but never really got what was so great about full suspension, I've now returned to a hardtail a orange clockwork evo and I can't believe how good these modern geometry hardtails are, such a shame other channels don't give more time to hardtails,keep up the good work, jason UK.👍

[@hardtailparty]

Welcome to the party

[@jasonrichardwatts]

Hell yeah the 90s MTBs!

[@7dragongames]

Would love to see a video on the 2021 as I hear the frame has been updated.

[@nickcsuki8123]

Yes! Have you seen the all brushed aluminum frame? Just ordered mine!

[@ProMountainBiker]

@@nickcsuki8123 same I just ordered the brushed aluminum frame, it looks awesome

[@nickcsuki8123]

@@ProMountainBiker Awesome! Good luck with your build!

[@johnq7731]

@@ProMountainBiker can you make a video of its unboxing and build thanks would love to see the new meta

[@williamhumphries4094]

@@ProMountainBiker thinking of getting the same bike. How tall are you and what size frame did you get?

[@JengaBikes]

as a long time bmx rider looking into mtbing, I think aggressive hardtail is the way 2 go for my skill set, this thing would feel like a beast 2 me.

[@hardtailparty]

This is the first time I've ended a review early because I didn't want to ride the bike anymore. I was really excited for this bike, you can hear it in my voice at the beginning, but by the end, I was worn out and not enjoying the ride. Hopefully this review goes to show the benefit of actually riding a bike on your terrain before buying one. So many people are drawn to the low price that they buy it sight unseen then convince themselves they've made a good purchase because of the parts spec. No matter the cost or the specs, this bike will always ride harsh.

[@philiplee2258]

hi, hope that your next test on the specialized Fuse😊😊

[@joelwright1822]

Thanks for the review. I came to the same conclusions with my 2020 Commencal Meta HT essential build. I ended up purchasing a 2020 Chromag Rootdown and swapping all components over. Best decision ever. Far superior geometry all around, way more compliant, and just a few pounds more. Please review the Chromag Rootdown, it's a beast!

[@hardtailparty]

@@joelwright1822 sadly chromag isn't able to send me a frame for review. I've ridden a few rootdowns and a stylus. It's almost identical to my rsd middle child. Not super supple, but burly and the geo is fantastic. I'm convinced most people would be able to tell the difference between a middle child and a rootdown if they were blindfolded. Both are fantastic bikes for their discipline. If someone could make a complaint version of those bikes (like my middle child ti), they'd have the ideal hardtail in my opinion.

[@sunnykrusty]

How do you like the MRP Ribbon Fork?

[@caseyas8572]

I wonder if the not-quite-plus 2.6 rear tire with a narrow rim is the reason it was a harsh ride. I recently switched from a true-to-size 3.0 to a narrow 2.8 (actual 2.65) and the rear end is much harsher on rocks. I'd love to hear your take on that theory. Thank you for the honest review.

[@mojavemisfit]

Awesome and honest review of the Meta ht. I ride a 2016 Meta ht. I wanted a MTB that rode and had the same geometry as BMX and the Commencal fit the bill. Riser bars would give it more of a BMX feel. But it would sacrifice what little front end control the bike already has on technical ascents. This bike is not for everyone but everyone should ride one.

[@bananasstuff3344]

you just said that not everyone would like this but everyone should ride one. what?

[@stevetordoff]

Came across your channel on a recent search for a fresh hardtail. Being from Vancouver, I know of Commencal as a local company and was interested in a non-local opinion. I have come to really appreciate your thoroughness and considerations. Thanks for your review, keep up the good work!

[@Jan0000]

Welp im stumped now, was very close to getting one of these and now i'm back to square one. Thanks for the review it probably saved me a lot of headache.

[@hardtailparty]

Honestly, that's one of the main goals of my reviews is to inform future buyers what a bike is like.

[@aldairortiz917]

same here man

[@LiamLewisJones]

Jan Slagter if u planning on riding terrain like this u should consider a softer bike but as I live in England where everything is mud roots and jumps I bought one of these and have had no problems with it being uncomfortable at all. It is a really agile bike with excellent quality for price. I personally bought the cheapest version and the only thing I’ve considered upgrading is the drivetrain which is a lot better in the other version. I would 100% recommend this bike if ur out to have fun ride aggressive and hit more flowery jumpy trails

[@LiamLewisJones]

And this guys a little old so his riding styles probably stiff suggesting why he likes it on the flow stuff but not tech

[@ashleywressell4664]

This is me too now - kinda worried about pulling the trigger. I was looking at either this or a nuke proof scout

[@davidblackman3127]

The 2021 has a shorter seat tube!!!! they must have listened to you

[@ShaunYProduction]

It's nice to see some review about this bike. I own the 2019 Race 29 spec the bike feels like a dirt jumper and is very stiff at the back like you mension you have to charge everything. This is a good bike for urban freeride, dirt jumping and fast flow trail down the hill without brake bumps it will feels home and it will be like a roller coaster. I have bmx background and been happy with but wouldn't really recommend it for bike park day as after 6 ride down you get beat up to the points it's enough and want an FS.

[@justgo4033]

I agree , i have the 2020 ride 29 , great for my local trails and jump tracks . I took it to a big mountain bike park ( fernie bc ) and thank god i brought my dh bike , after 2 runs had to switch .

[@tadams1150]

I ride the 2021 frame in Nelson, New Zealand(steep and technical) and it’s sick. It can handle all the double black diamonds just fine. Back end is harsh compared to the full suss but I just learnt to absorb the hits differently and doesn’t bother me. I also found the back end easy to lift up and kick around on my size L.

[@msgesus4518]

I'm also in Nz :). How tall are ya? I'm 175 smack in the medium bracket according to the sizing charts

[@tadams1150]

@@msgesus4518 183, the frames are kinda small so I probably could still ride an xl if that helps...

[@msgesus4518]

@@tadams1150 Thanks, I got the medium 2nd hand for a good deal with great components, rode it twice and nah, it's not it. Too cramped knees touch bars when climbing tight corners and a bit twitchy on descents. All good though I have a large ordered and it will be mint. For anyone else out there I reckon size up if your 175cm to large.

[@benv4925]

Love the 95% rule. This is the reason I run short travel FS but I see many others with enduro style 160 mm fs all for 50 ft of trail. 5 secs of a 2 hour ride...Literally have folks running rigid ss and enduro bikes on the same trail.

[@rinadan9234]

You got such a nice trails in sedona. I hope one of this days i got the time to go there. Thanks for the review.

[@akronyme]

Hey! Thank you for your honest review, I really appreciate! You probably know it, but they have made some steel ones years ago. I'm an owner of the cromoly one (ride mainly in the alps) with a 160 pike (fast suspension cartidge), and I absolutly love the way it rides, much more souple than the aluminium one. The only regret is that it's not made for plus size tires... so, even with steel, it's not so comfy, but not as harsh as the alu one. Keep making party in the mountain, they are great ;)

[@j.l.5966]

akronyme I had the 2016 chromo version with the Pike fork, one of my favorite bikes I’ve ever ridden because it was so fun. The 2020 version definitely feels like acompletely different bike. Also surprised they didn’t make a chromo version.

[@markburry9989]

Newer subscriber, so it's probably been said before, but you have impressive technical climbing skills.

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks Mark. Most comments about my riding criticize my "skills." I appreciate the kind words.

[@markburry9989]

You're welcome. I am enjoying your content and your reviews. You're no-nonsense straightforward presentation without any fluff is exactly what's missing in many other bike channels. Keep up the good work.

[@xanderzumwalt917]

@@hardtailparty i have learned a lot about technical riding from watching your videos. I dont understand why anyone would criticize your riding because its good!

[@hardtailparty]

The sb5+ would be so fun with a slacker head angle. I demoed one a few years ago and loved that bike except for the steep head angle. You've got a killer bike now!

[@Big_Boi23]

Mountain goat on wheels

[@AbwilCynold]

Glad I've seen your review. I was looking at Commencal Meta HT, Nukeproof Scout and Ragley Mmmbop. I'm happy I went with Mmmbop. :D

[@666psicko]

I preordered a 2021 and just saw your video. Im also a northern Arizona rider.

[@jamesmcmann8536]

"that Banshee's ruined me" - lol. Steve, I love the videos, keep it up.

[@hardtailparty]

Do you need help deciding which bike to purchase next? I offer a one-on-one bike consultation service through patreon. It's how I put food on the table for my family, and how I'm able to provide custom bike advice for my vieewrs. Become a patron today for access: sign up for the monthly bike consultation tier, and cancel at any time. Most people sign up for a month or two, and we work together to discuss their needs, riding style, etc. to narrow down the list of all the great hardtails out there. When they get the info they need and they no longer have any questions, they cancel. Become a patron today: patreon.com/hardtailparty. If my videos have saved you time or money, consider supporting this channel for as little as $5/month. I hope this channel is able grow so I can make more videos in the future. Support individual content creators over garbage tv or sponsored content disguised as reviews.

[@neilmarvinpatindol3697]

good job sir , bike safe always . from philippines :)

[@Benxl-bn3cr]

And to think I was two weeks between ordering the Meta HT and landing on the Woodsmoke. Despite poor sales and being discontinued, I love the Woodsmoke. enjoyed the video!

[@hardtailparty]

You dodged a bullet. This is the first review bike I've ever cut a review short on because I didn't like it.

[@christopherstein4833]

Great review. Just ordered one and this was what I was expecting to hear haha.

[@drmoynihan]

I love your brutal review!!! You reminded me why my 68 year old body is moving from hard tail to full suspension. LOL Your HT reviews are so clear - thank you. P.S. I am waiting for a FullSusp Commencal Meta TR (Large is back ordered to June), but I had wondered how their hardtails ran. BTW - I am 5'9", right on the spot where I can go either way, medium to large. Felt good on my Friend's FS Large Transition Sentinal, but I don't have two Meta to compare.

[@patchesthejaybird8431]

68, wow, keep on Trucken! I'm hoping I can still ride when I get to that age!

[@patchesthejaybird8431]

The review was no more brutal than the ride!

[@CL-dh2mf]

Hi Hardtail Party! Thanks for the great reviews and tips on the channel!👍 Have you ever thought about reviewing a Whyte 905? I got this for about one year now and think you might would love it. Greetings from Germany, stay healthy and partying! ✌

[@dzastafahrai]

Thanks for really honest review! One month ago I bought Meta HT 29er (replacement for Roscoe) for 95% riding and Clash 27.5 (180/165) for 5% of riding. Both bikes are really boring at mellow trails, they both wants to charge. Well it seems that this is something I prefer - to go all the way! ✌️😎

[@ziraga]

can you have long days on the clash (i've been eyeing that bike for my 5% too)? kind of whole enchilada type of ride, where you have to climb to have fun.

[@dzastafahrai]

Felipe I plan to ride it on enduro ride tomorrow for 30-40km and 600-700 elevation. I will let you know how it rides

[@dzastafahrai]

Felipe initial impressions for Clash is that it can climb similarly with Meta HT if you take smooth uphills, sit and spin, it does not bob. I didn’t find huge difference 27.5 vs 29 in rolling speed. If you want to attack climbs, then the suspensions is noticeable compared to hardtail. Otherwise it’s great bike to pedal to the spot and send it. It opens up in downhill and has no problem getting you there ! But I can only compare it to hardtail, never ridden short travel trail bike, but I don’t see reason to have one since hardtail is actually for that and long travel bike for downhill. Hope that helps

[@unzulaessig]

The bike between freeride and dirt. i got the 2019 frame, its A W E S O M E !

[@1n0ahhh]

I love this bike. It's a tank! Gonna install a 200mm dropper soon...

[@TeamCykelhold]

I use my wifes Meta HT as a dirt jumper with some nice MTB traits like a dropper and slightly bigger wheels. Seems super fun for that, but the harsh rear end isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't bring it to something as rocky as where you went. Super fun as a do it all lets jump and rail corners fun bike.

[@hardtailparty]

Agreed.

[@jeff7086]

Good review. I had the same experience with the Meta HT. I think I described the ride as (based on my trails) stiff enough to knock out your fillings. But I have a good amount of chunky rocks that I ride. I did not try er out on any flow trails. I dropped it from my list of hardtails to consider based on my ridding and trails. Which is really too bad, for the price is a heck of a deal the way its spec'ed

[@scottmundy6693]

Grate review im tossing up between this and the San Quentin at the moment but still looking at others

[@estebanfpv2984]

What did you descide?

[@scottmundy6693]

@@estebanfpv2984 still want the commencal

[@1Enas1]

I was considering this. But in the end i bought a nukeproof scout frame and custom-built it. They look very similar.

[@hardtailparty]

I think the reach is even shorter on the scout. I hope to get one in for review soon. If I love it, it'll be a great deal. I wish it could run plus tires though

[@s14tat]

The scout has a 5mm longer reach in medium and the wheelbase is 10mm shorter at 1164mm. The scout can fit 2.8 easy with plenty of clearance. I am running 2.8 on mine. I think they commencal feels less slack is because of the 160mm fork. Just at sag point it probably steepens the bike too much. The scout gets 65 hta with a 140mm fork.

[@hardtailparty]

@@s14tat good to know you can fit 2.8s on the Nukeproof. I'm glad the reach is 5mm longer than this, but I still think both should be even longer, but that's just my opinion. I'm glad to hear you're loving your scout. I hope to get one in for review soon, but it's not looking good.

[@s14tat]

@@hardtailparty if I lived near you I would totally lent it to you and tell you to go nuts

[@1Enas1]

@@hardtailparty i cannot properly test it because of lockdown. It is suposed to be quite compliant. It was just 400 € for the frame(headset included) , it was super easy to build and the quality of the frame is good. You will propably like it more than the commencal. Blake from GMBN rode it at the megavalance so it must be pretty capable.

[@BenYorkeMrHardtail]

Great review my man! well put.

[@louis-philippecorriveau4725]

I'm not surprised by your findings even though I thought you would like it more for general trail riding. The minute I rode my daughter Meta HT (even if it's not my size), I almost felt like I was on a race bike with slacker HTA (I'm used to long travel FS bike). The bike is stiff and it accelerate so quickly (setup as a 29er also). But jumping on our small wooden sender or hopping onto curbs I felt that harshness in the rear-end. My son's Middlechild felt a lot smoother and more playful... Still wish I could try an XL on some buffed trail with berms and small jumps. I think for a do-it-all bike for my daughter it will do ok for the price... I'm curious if you will get the chance to test an aluminum Middlechild. Rocky-Mountain Growler also comes to mind for a budget trail hardtail with good geo...

[@hardtailparty]

I feel like the steel middle child is a far better bike in every way, except for weight. The steel mc is still a pretty stiff bike, but it's not harsh like this. I'm excited to test the aluminum one soon. I hope to get a growler too, though I've heard it's extremely stiff like this commencal. We'll see.

[@cove6433]

thank you for this review!! considering one of these

[@edtube3001]

Steve...great reviews! After a 20 year hiatus (moving from Phoenix to FL), I'm getting back into mountain biking. My last bike was a Serotta Colorado ATX 26". Looking to move into the present with a new bike! Considering a Trek Roscoe 9 or Commencal Meta HT. Seems like either of these is a pretty flexible platform for SE MTB, which is a lot of single tracks and less DH. Your input is appreaciated!

[@hardtailparty]

Welcome back. I do my 1:1 bike consultation over on Patreon. I'd be happy to help you over there. patreon.com/hardtailparty

[@edtube3001]

@@hardtailparty Cool thanks!

[@ethanarellano3441]

Great review!

[@superawesomefuntimego]

Thanks for the review! I was looking at the Commencal (along with the Nukeproof Scout) before I decided on my Whyte 905. The Whyte just seemed to have the more appealing geometry to me. I bet the Meta HT would still be fun for lots of the trails I ride, but glad I went with the Whyte.

[@JohnM-p5r]

I think you're right about composite pedals deadening vibrations a bit more I am not a very rich man but I like to try out different pedals all the time value expensive it don't matter and I've noticed on all the machine aluminum ones that I've tried they're very harsh but I tried the one up composite and the race face chesters etc on my banshee paradox and it feels sweet noticeably less vibration going through my feet

[@gianttodd1]

Love my norco torrent with 3” 27.5 is a dream!!also new subscriber.long live hardtails!!!!🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻

[@hardtailparty]

You've come to the right place! Welcome to the party.

[@DonnieX6]

Hi Steve! Last year I bought the Vitus Sentier VRX 2019 hardtail, do you have any thoughts on that bike, or have you ridden any from that company and can compare it to others? As a mailorder-only bike through CRC I could not ride it before ordering, but as the reviews had been good I had went for it and haven't regretted it yet, having a blast on it!

[@hardtailparty]

I've been trying to get a sentier for review, but no luck. I'll keep trying. A lot of UK companies aren't willing to send a frame to the us for a review, and I don't blame them. But that's a bike I've really been wanting to try.

[@DonnieX6]

@@hardtailparty Dang, would really have liked to hear your take on that one! But let's hope for the best, I'll keep my fingers crossed! :) Unfortunately I am in Germany, otherwise I would have gladly sent mine over for a week or two if I was state side... As I already mentioned yesterday - keep it up, really enjoying your content! :D

[@cove6433]

@@DonnieX6 I have been looking at the 2020 sentier 27vr, how do you like yours? what trails do you find yourself riding the most?

[@DonnieX6]

Hi @@cove6433! So far I like mine a lot, but I can't really tell you how it would compare to other bikes unfortunately. I also have the 27.5 version, and with the springy 2.6" tires it feels nice to ride and also quite nimble I would say. Most of the time I was in the pre-alps on forest single-tracks and some rocky and gravely sections. I think the value is also alright for that price.

[@1Enas1]

Since he didn't like the commencal he propably won't like the vitus which on paper at least is even more oldschool than this

[@zaniix11]

Love to see a comparison to the bike I bought instead of the Commencal, a Whyte 905. Great vid, thanks for all your reviews.

[@hardtailparty]

I've been trying to get one for review. No luck yet.

[@zaniix11]

@@hardtailparty I am pulling for you! I know its hard to get the UK brands over here. Good luck.

[@bknoell]

Thanks for the review Steve. This is the first bike I’ve ridden that you’ve reviewed so it’s nice to have a frame of reference now to compare to some of the other hardtail options out there. I’ve got a 2020 Meta HT AM Race 29 that I’ve only gotten a couple rides in so far but overall would agree with your review. I’m riding an XL in very different terrain and I have found the ride to be very harsh in some situations. My experience with hardtails is limited so I’d been wondering if that’s how they all rode, good to know that’s not the case. It’s definitely still a fun bike on the right trails but has it’s limitations.

[@hardtailparty]

Glad it helps. It's the harshest hardtail ice ridden. Most other decent hardtails will be a lot less harsh. They're still hardtails, and you won't confuse them with a full squish, but most hardtails absorb at least some of the trail. This one didn't.

[@jordanewing4466]

I was honestly thinking about purchasing this bike. But now kinda second guessing myself. I'm just getting back into the sport and I honestly ride a little bit of everything. I need a bike tht can handle rough tech and flow trails. What do you recommend?

[@hardtailparty]

See my other hardtail reviews. I save custom bike recommendations for my paying patrons.

[@Atalbot1994]

@hardtail party I had a 2021 Meta HT AM 27.5 I rode on local trails with a 170mm bomber z1. I wanted a full sus so I built a status 160 ( with that same z1 170 fork ) then was feeling another hard tail or short travel full sus. I'm really between this, an Orbea Laufey H-LTD or YT Izzo core 2. I'm in New England and local trails are rocky and rooty with lots of punch climbs. there are not a ton of ride reviews on the Laufey seems to be a great spec'd bike.

[@hardtailparty]

See my ride review on the laufey. Don't let great spec for the price override good ride feel or geo

[@ARsoundsofstillness]

Hey great review! Too bad it didn't work better for you! I've been riding my 2020 Meta ht for about 5 months now, I live in Colorado, have ridden my Meta all over the southwest and ride very aggressive, absolutely couldn't be more smitten with my Commencal but im coming from from an old skool On One Summer Season so this feels like magic to me. Might catch you in Sedona soon!

[@hardtailparty]

I'm stoked to hear you love yours, that's all that matters. When this COVID-19 thing is behind us, hit me up and I'll try to join you for a ride in Sedona.

[@ARsoundsofstillness]

@@hardtailparty Thanks and be well out there!

[@marclayman8799]

I love my 2021 Commencal Meta HT AM, revised frame and awesome build. You should review the newer frame

[@josephfarrugia2350]

Still too stiff :-(

[@domanater480]

I got mine and it feels so stiff coming from a big al

[@AbogadongKalye]

Very informative review. Got a question, though: I'm about to purchase my first hardtail (my online searches led me to this video). Would you recommend this as a first hardtail (first MTB, period)? If not, what are your top recommendations as a first hardtail/MTB? The "fun factor" you mentioned about this bike makes this an enticing proposition. But I'd still like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

[@cove6433]

virus sentier, rsd middle child aluminium, nukeproof scout, specialized fuse, calibre line 29, ragley marley

[@j.l.5966]

Excellent review and totally agree with your assessment. However, you made the riding look smooth despite the bike’s tendency to misbehave, so props to your handling skills man! I own the 2020 Race version with 29” wheels, all stock parts, to fit a niche in my stable as a “long” travel hardtail for a slalom type well-groomed track with drops and jump lines. I have to ride a short sandy rooty trail to get to the track though and it’s gets pretty chattery. But just like in the first few minutes of your review, it really comes alive on the jumps. I pump the Lyrik fork up a bit stiffer and coupled with the already stiff frame I’m popping and launching off everything. I’m also 5’6 with a 31” inseam & short torso and I find that my sweet spot reach is 420-440mm. I went with medium because reach is at the short end of my preferred range, but the seat tube is way too tall. Just like you, the 150mm dropper is too high (about 15mm) at full extension when fully inserted into the seat post. Most of my riding on this bike is with the post slammed all the way down anyway. Also stand over has the family jewels grazing the top tube with the 29s. I’ll try 27.5+ when I get a chance. Out of the box, there was an annoying creak that reverberated throughout the frame and I found that the problem was due to the rear maxle not tightened enough to spec. I added grease and tightened accordingly. But your observation of the stiff aluminum is spot on, because if something creaks on the bike, you’ll definitely know lol. It’s my play bike for light freeride/jump sessions and urban tomfoolery but certainly not my main ride. And it’s definitely not a do it all trail bike nor a bike for the first time mtber or hardtail convert. I think it makes a great N+1 though. It’s my 20%, 2x a week bike and I’m very happy with it. Btw, since this your buddy’s bike, what does he think of it?

[@hardtailparty]

My buddy built it up for his girlfriend. She likes it. Your comments are spot on aligned with mine. You can hear vibrations reverberating through the frame in this review.

[@jerrydmartinez5156]

Thanks for the review. I was about to buy one but I don’t think I will anymore

[@hardtailparty]

Hopefully this saved you some money and hassle living with a bike that wasn't quite what you had hoped.

[@josephnubile1970]

Great review. One of the things I have noticed since finding your channel is how often in your reviews that you praise your Banshee Paradox V3. I am so glad I ordered one and cant wait to build mine up. I hope they took your advice about the water bottle mounts and the quality control issues as I had to pre order mine through Dirt Merchant and they are awaiting the current batch to get in. Absolutly Love your channel and I have learned a few things along the way. Keep up the Great content.

[@davidmoralesdamian5264]

New here, love your vids. First I want to say that it's depressing to hear that commencal doesn't ride that good and it is harsh in the trail, since I have been looking forward to this bike really bad, I have a lower end specialized Rockhoper 3x8 Turney and mechanical brakes, so upgrading to a Meta HT It would be blast for me. In my country there are quite few options for HT with a aggressive geometry, commencal is one of them; There are also trek, specialized and Rocky mountain (friends tell me that frames don't last long). Another thing that surprises me is that you call this bike "Cheap" in my country the price is $2000 USD (Meta Essential), but I understand this because of the custom taxes, bomer.

[@hardtailparty]

$2000 is pretty cheap for the parts that it comes with. Most other bikes with the same parts cost $2400. There are a lot of great hardtails out there. See my other reviews to see what might suit you best.

[@Jan0000]

@@hardtailparty Which hardtails would you recommend over the commencal at that $2000 ish pricepoint?

[@MTBFlowRider]

Great review man! I like the honestly and tell it like it is. Would you recommend this bike for someone who rides mostly trails in the Santa Cruz area that wants something playful and poppy? If not what hardtail would you recommend? Loving the channel! Keep it up.

[@hardtailparty]

This would fit that bill, with the caveat that it's going to be stiff. I still haven't figured out what makes a bike "poppy", but some bikes like to get airborne more than others. There are a handful of bikes I'd recommend for that area, including the timberjack, chameleon, rsd middle child, and banshee paradox.

[@clydechai1720]

Do one on the Marin San Quentin and the Ragley Marley

[@ianfurqueron5850]

Have you ever ridden some early "party hardtails" like a first generation Chameleon or an Eastern Woods Research OWB (Original Woods Bike)? I owned both back in the day. I had one of each for awhile, but set up as DS bikes with a 1x9 and a MRP DS chain guide, although for a short time I had the Chameleon set up as my XC race bike with 3x8 XTR parts. I did one race in 1998 on the Chameleon and while it definitely put the power down when pedaling, it also beat the crap out of me on rough descents.

[@hardtailparty]

Yes, I used to had an azonic ds-1 in 1998. I rode a chameleon in 2000.

[@seanralston5033]

Looking into the 2021 Meta HT AM or the CroMo Middle Child. I see you have reviewed both. Considering the 2021 changes on the meta compared to the 19', you reviewed, which would you recommend of the two? Primary trails are single track flow with jumps, roots and SOME larger tech. I'm in the North East.

[@benbiker9381]

I ride the commecal meta ht am with 29“ wheels 2.4rear and 2.5 front tyre and a 150mm lyrik an it rides fine on enduro race tracks and bike parks but i agree with him in the stiff frame but a good tip is ride with clipless pedals and it is a beast but it is rough

[@benbiker9381]

And it is a monster the bigger the better and speed is your friend it is more a enduro then a trailbike

[@MrLongboarder87]

I’ve wanted to get a hard tail for a while and have been enjoying your great reviews. You’ve mentioned your body type in a few reviews, I was curious if you’ve ridden any bikes you should have loved but because of your stature were awful to ride?

[@aldeux7086]

Nice vid man

[@niteryder50]

Great review, I had 2016 version and interesting hearing about how harsh you say it is. I got to the point where would only ride it if riding fast smooth trails. So fun on big burms and pump tracks but as soon as got rough got to point would just take full suspension as more fun. I thought all hard tails were like that intersting to know they not.

[@hardtailparty]

A good hardtail is nothing like that. However, good hardtails are hard to find. It's pretty cool to ride a great hardtail.

[@niteryder50]

@@hardtailparty Great watching your reviews and seeing how different the frames feel in different conditions.

[@CWVIEWmc]

I own this bike and he is spot on

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks Chris. I'm afraid a lot of owners will view this and thumbs down the video or be mad. My intention is to explain in words how a bike rides. I've got no skin in the game. If it rides harsh, I'm going to say it. If it's a rip-off, I'm going to say it. The whole purpose of reviews is to explain what it's like, not to help people justify a blind purchase.

[@CWVIEWmc]

@@hardtailparty As a owner I found it very helpful, because this was a cheap frame I tried it as my first HT and thought it was to stiff. I haven't ridden other HT so I wasn't so sure, but you help confirm my suspicion. Your other video about how frames are made and what they are made of helped as well. Hopefully other owners with little HT experience will look at it that way as well

[@hardtailparty]

@@CWVIEWmc thabks for not being bugged and not taking it personally that I didn't love this frame. There are some lovely hardtails out there that don't best you up. I hope you get a chance to ride one someday, as it's a conpletely different experience.

[@CWVIEWmc]

@@hardtailparty Thanks for making the video man!!

[@Ariokanikan]

Would you still recommend this bike to a beginner? I was close to ordering the 2021 model, then went to look at reviews. Im in georgia, and I don't think our trails get quite as gnarly as these are.

[@zalox32]

good review, it's nice to see honest reviews were the pros and cons of the product are clear and compared with other bikes. but i have a doubt, could be possible that the vague feeling of the front have something to do with fork offset? i have read some comments about it affecting the ride feeling and companies tend to use different offsets on their forks (RS even offer same fork with different offsets) i have ridden just two forks on different bikes so i can't tell

[@hardtailparty]

I think that's part of what was bothering me with the steering. I think this bike would do better with a 41-44mm offset.

[@yamahschector]

Would you recommend this bike. They have a Black Friday deal for 2250 for the race 2022 version. The big deal is I found out I can go check out the. Santa Cruz chameleon, trek roscoe, and the meta all in person all with in an hour and a half from me no big deal at all.

[@franciscorm7549]

This bike is sick one of my favorites that I've owned and where is that pump track?

[@TheChillBison]

Just now really getting into your videos, and glad you did this one. I'm a full-susser, but really want to try a modern HT, and the Meta was high on my list, but being that Tucson isn't too different from Sedona, you've got me thinking "nah" on the Meta. Still pretty interested in a Cotic, Ragley, or even the Growler 40.

[@dolphin-studio]

try a HT you can taste the trail much better also it will sharpen your skills. After all I thought the chunky granolahlike trails are the most fun.

[@cw4910]

I agree with what you said about the steering being slow, did they make the mistake of having a 51 offset fork? Also I don’t understand how the head angle can be 65 on the models that come with 150 / 160 etc forks.

[@DCCSound]

Nice review. Out of interest, have you ridden a Nukeproof Scout 275 for comparison? I've just sold my XC carbon hardtail as I've got a new-ish 29er XC dually (Scott Spark RC). The 29er is a mileage killer out in the open. However I miss my simple hardtail and want something to just have fun on, on the trails. The Scout seems to have a little more reach, but with lower stack and about the lowest BB height, compared to the Meta.

[@MartenRun]

Did you get an explination to why the back weel don't want to lift? I have had that exact feeling on NS Eccentric frame. ( Alu) in 27.5 with the very same geo.

[@camerongreen4625]

Can you please review Ragley mmmbop as it looks like your kind of hardtail

[@hardtailparty]

I'd really like to, but ragley isn't able to send one to me.

[@hunterg4728]

I have one you could review if you are ever in central Texas, only thing is its a large frame.

[@hardtailparty]

@@hunterg4728 thanks for the offer. Sadly it's too large for me.

[@hughsnyder891]

Hunter G do you like it ?

[@hunterg4728]

@@hughsnyder891 I love it, very confidences inspiring on the steep stuff. I ride in a very rocky environment and I don't think it rides that rough, but i haven't ridden any other hardtails in along time to compare it to, so maybe I'm just use to it. Thats one reason why i would like Steve to review one, just to let me know what I'm working with.

[@patchesthejaybird8431]

About a split second before before you say this is "stiff" I could hear the CL-angg! Reminds me of my old Specialized Rockhopper. It would just jump forward when I put the power down, I was better at that then, but it made me pay for it on the rough stuff. Looks like a nice bike for the younger crowd with younger joints who charge hard and don't know any better. Was I there once?

[@hardtailparty]

Spot on. You can hear the stiffness of the frame in this whole video.

[@patchesthejaybird8431]

@@hardtailparty I appreciate your straightforward honesty. Too many reviewers tend to gloss over a frames ride quality, mentioning only efficiency of power transfer perhaps.

[@pating1980]

Can you do a reveiw on dartmoor hornet and primal frames. Great review though very in depth and insightful 😊

[@hardtailparty]

The hornet looks amazing on paper. I'll see if I can get one for review.

[@ciastek166]

As far as I know hornet is stiff as hell. But you can seek for NS Eccentric Cromo

[@hardtailparty]

The hornet looks like it'd be super stiff, but who knows.

[@ciastek166]

@@hardtailparty NS or Dartmoor?:D

[@hardtailparty]

Sorry, I should have clarified (I went back to edit it for clarity). The Hornet looks stiff.

[@shoretea3745]

Would you recommend that bike over the Trek Roscoe, specialized fuse, or giant fathom

[@neilfpv]

I just heard about Commencal Meta HT. I was planning to buy Sentier VR 27 but then I saw this. The Commencal is $200 cheaper than the Sentier which is nice. That's a lot of savings for me. However, is the Commencal a fun to rid mtb than Sentier 27? It will be my first hardtail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[@johnq7731]

I really have fun on this bike, review spot on really stiff rear and transmit alot of vibrations , im on small frame but i wish the seat is also about an inch shorter and increase the reach by 1 to 2cm.. But all in all i miss riding the meta lots of fun.

[@nikitaklim4210]

What's your height mate? Deciding which frame size to go for

[@rubbergripp]

What do we have to do to get hardtail party to revisit this bike. I have a 2021 and it mobs. Feel like this bike didn't get a fair shake.

[@hardtailparty]

What wasn't fair about it? If commencal wants to send one in for review, they're welcome to. See other comments below from people who also felt it was too stiff.

[@rubbergripp]

@@hardtailparty I feel like this bike comes alive when you ride it hard and put weight into the rear triangle. It takes a beating and the 2.8's start to make sense. I love your reviews and wanted to see you take it down that last stretch homie.

[@endebtedone]

so if you don't ride aggressive or super aggressive trails it would be a viable option? I live in the NE US where the riding isn't like you ride. am I understanding your summary correctly?

[@hardtailparty]

Not really, because this has fairly aggressive geo with a 65* hta. It isn't very fun on mellow trails. It's fun on jump trails that are super smooth. I'd pick a timberjack or a chameleon over one of these for any given trails, unless it was like a bmx track.

[@endebtedone]

@@hardtailparty thanks for the input as always!!

[@benbiker9381]

It is like you love it or you hate it but i don‘t think there’s an in between and i think thats the problem with it i love mine but hearing this review let me think about other frames and how they could bring me even more joy and i might even try another frame or two just to see how differnt they are :) I think its a greate review becaus it describes the bike how it is 👍

[@hardtailparty]

If you love it, that's all that matters. That said, having ridden many modern hardtails, there are better bikes out there. Whether it's worth searching them out and swapping is up to you.

[@DrGufo]

Very interesting review, unfortunately we are not getting some of the bikes you review in EU. In the cheap way there is the Rockrider AM 100 HT from Decathlon. Surprisingly, geometry seems decent in size L, 450mm reach, 66 angle, long chainstay, decent specs ans for 1000€. Seem to good to be true. But as you mention, frame quality... unknown.

[@simonarends7802]

O that is a nice frame. I am a salesman of those Rockrider bikes, and you'd think for such a price the frame must be super stiff and uncomfortable of vague. However every time I demo a Rockrider I am very surprised! The frames are great. Really they give a sublime ride. And a lifetime warranty on the frames too!

[@DrGufo]

@@simonarends7802 Thanks for the responce! I am considering getting this or either second hand Nukeproof Scout, when this COVID maddnes finishes. I agree that Lifetime warranty is very convenient, cause recently I blow up my Orbea Alma frame.

[@rockylugo2193]

Great review. Love the channel. Im wondering if its not so difficult for you to make a review on the Canyon Grand Canyon 4.9 hardtail. I would appretiate your thoughts about it. Thanks ahead.

[@hardtailparty]

That's a bit too xc for my terrain here. Looks like a decent value for the price, if the geo is right for your terrain.

[@rottenhells]

i'm riding the meta ht for a year now. performs quite well on most of my hometrails, dirtpark and pumptrack. but I've been riding some rougher rockier trails recently and had the feeling that the stiffness of the rear is becoming an issue there. I have the feeling it limits the way these trails could actually be ridden. so i'm thinking about putting some tyre inserts like the rimpacts into the rear tyre to ad a little dampening. what are your thoughts on this?

[@hardtailparty]

A lot of people think inserts are going to make their stiff hardtail ride more like a full suspension, but they don't really. The allow you to run slightly lower psi without squirm, and they also change the damping/rebound characteristics of the tire. As a side effect, your often get better rim protection out of them too. I like inserts in some situations, but they don't make stiff bikes much softer.

[@rottenhells]

@@hardtailparty thx for the answer! so i shouldn't be expecting miracles from them. still those attributes seem kinda nice. but sounds like thicker sidewalls could do a similar job, right?

[@hardtailparty]

@@rottenhells Exactly. Cushcore feels different than heavy sidewalls, but they can achieve a somewhat similar result. Cushcore will change the way a tire reacts to the ground. It feels like increased damping in your tire. You can change how the tire interacts with the terrain. I recommend it for chunky situations, but even cushcore can't make a harsh frame feel complaint.

[@hardtailparty]

@@rottenhells I say go for it. It's a cheap way to alter the way your bike feels. It may be just what you're looking for. If not, it was a cheap experiment. I haven't personally tried rimpscts, but I've heard a few of my viewers switching back to cushcore after rimpacts. Not all inserts have the same ride feel and damping qualities. I just received some tannus inserts to try. I'm excited to see what they feel like.

[@thormodur1]

I'm deciding between this one or Ghost Roket 5,7 AL, what do you think?

[@tito-tubes]

You think SC Chameleon would be better fun on gradual trails?

[@hardtailparty]

Definitely. See my review of the chameleon. As long as your trails aren't too steep or rowdy, it will be a good choice. Overpriced, but a good choice.

[@tito-tubes]

hardtail party is there other hardtails with sliding dropouts? Would like to run single speed sometimes.

[@michaelkay4464]

Awesome thanks for the review, just discovered your channel and it is my new favorite bike channel! My wife has about a 2k budget and it's pretty much between this and the Fuse. She's 5'3 with a slightly short inseam, the reach looks a tad short on this bike though (she had a TJ with I believe 414 in the small and this has 400), think we should look into the medium for her or stick with the small?

[@hardtailparty]

I do my bike consultations for my patrons. I'd need to know more info before making a recommendation for sizibg for her. I talk s bit about bike sizing in a recent video. I don't recommend this bike for anyone, unless they have perfectly smooth trails.

[@michaelkay4464]

@@hardtailparty ahh thanks for the info, haven't had time to watch the whole video yet (work and whatnot ruining my youtube time ;)) , I'll consider it, never used patreon :). Thanks for the content.

[@hardtailparty]

I'm hoping to get a fuse soon to review. stay tuned. What didn't she like about her TJ?

[@michaelkay4464]

hardtail party oh she likes the timberjack. It is just an entry level bike so had the Judy silver and some wheels with about 30 degrees of engagement, both of those are pretty sad after being on higher end bikes. Replace both of those with a good fork and wheels and you might as well just get a new bike, because those two parts are at 1200+ for the fork/wheels she would want.

[@hardtailparty]

Gotcha. Most new bikes don't come with great wheels, so you're probably going to have to upgrade those at some point anyway, so that cost would transfer over for her next bike. I'll have a fuse for review next month In no way would this commencal be an upgrade over her bike except for the components. It would be a downgrade for the frame, ride quality, and ride experience. One other idea is to just get a good rear hub and lace her existing rear wheel up to that new hub. No need to replace the front wheel, as they're decent enough. For a budget fork, I like the fox 34 recon. You can find them for about $300 lightly used. I feel like the timberjack is worth upgrading more than this bike. This definitely wouldn't be an "upgrade" despite the nicer components.

[@boybusilakbikes]

I was actually looking at this one too aside from the Kanlaon. Which one's stiffer? The kanlaon's play and slay sold me to it but yeah the Meta is much more popular here. Which do you think is overall better?

[@hardtailparty]

They're both very stiff; stiffer than I'd want for my terrain.

[@backnforth3022]

Hi man! I’m new to the hardtail world or bike world in general. Have a budget of 1500$ and have found this bike for sale and the Orbea H10 with in my price point, i have watch your review’s of them now and can’t decide which one i should go for. I want a bike i can play alittle with but i will also use it for daily ride to work and back and that is about 20km one way (not sure what it’s in mile’s). Have been dreaming about the H10 but remember u said it’s alittle harder to play with so what would you recommend? Thanks! And thanks for your video reviews, love the info i’m getting since i’m a newbie!

[@hardtailparty]

Nice to meet you, thanks for watching. I have a consultation service where I help make recommendations for people. It's a monthly fee, but I'd be happy to help you over there. Subscribestar.com/hardtailparty

[@danielshort9343]

looking at a ribble 725 or stanton switchback. Will be riding in British forests and mountains. need an all-round fun hardtail frame. any recomendations?

[@hardtailparty]

I do my bike consultation through patreon. I'd be happy to help your over there.

[@danielshort9343]

@@hardtailparty Thanks bro, think I'm going to wait for Ragley stock but im not sure. I will be hitting you up sometime this year hopefully. Love to see you review the Ribble HT 725, that's also on my radar. So glad I found your channel. I have so many questions to ask tbh. About forks, headtube angles, best frame for my weight and ride style etc.

[@martinpetricek239]

I was consider buy a meta ht as a new bike last year, but I don't like too high seat tube and despite good fork quite low spec components on factory build. I'm looking forward for your Orbea laufey review. I woud like to buy new ride and I can't decide between Orbea Laufley H-Ltd 2020 and Nukeproof Scout 290 expert 2020. Also after your review consider to make a build with Bashee paradox frame. What would you recomend?

[@hardtailparty]

It depends on where you ride, what you like on a bike, and a few other factors. I offer custom bike recommendations for my paying patrons. I haven't ridden the Nukeproof, but the reach looks really short.

[@martinpetricek239]

@@hardtailparty Most of trails in my country are in forest. So not so hard and rocky like on your video. Gnar surface I ride is I gues around 30%. Do you have any advice how to mesure myself for good astimate appropriet reach for a frame? I'm 6 ft and inner 33,85 inch. I found good purchace for steel hardtail, but reach 510 is kind a crazy. It's frame Pipedream moxie.

[@larsrindorf2240]

Maybe go through the component setup of this bike, including fork sag. Could be interesting. Seems this bike has a very short stem and is highly overforked (3:35) If this is true I understand if the ride feels unbalanced

[@hardtailparty]

I usually do that, but this was a loaner from a friend and I didn't have it for long. The stiff feeling will remain, but handling could be improved with some component changes.

[@larsrindorf2240]

@@hardtailparty maybe you could redo the test with the new frame in a standard setup? Just a suggestion. I hear people discussing this video from time to time. And thanks for a great channel. I enjoy your videos

[@bsauced]

I've been looking forward to this review! Would you say the sergeant v3 is a much more supple ride?

[@hardtailparty]

The sergeant isn't supple at all, but it's way less harsh than this. The sergeant is still stiff, but doesn't bear you up nearly as much. The same goes for the middle child steel..it's pretty stiff, but it doesn't bear you up as much as the commencal, and it doesn't transfer vibrations as much. The aluminum chameleon and timberjack are fantastic examples of aluminum bikes that aren't too stiff.

[@bsauced]

​@@hardtailparty Thanks for that break down.

[@davidrobertson4186]

I have been watching a lot of your videos. I’m going to pull a trigger on a hard tail. I live in Manitoba, Canada. No mountains here. What would you recommend for a bike? I would like to stay under $4000 Canadian. Thx

[@hardtailparty]

That's the type of thing i cover in my bike consultation service. Patreon.com/hardtailparty

[@LorenzoC1980]

Is it really stiffer than the DV9? I've been riding my DV9 with a slacker headset and 140 mm travel and it's not bad after the mods, but I really think the carbon frame is quite stiff... Did you try the newer meta HT from 2021 or 2022 to see if they feel more compliant?

[@hardtailparty]

This one is stiffer than the dv9, which is incredibly stiff as well. I haven't tried the 2022 meta yet.

[@experiencewithmartin972]

@@hardtailparty Will you ever test a newer meta frame ?

[@hardtailparty]

@@experiencewithmartin972 if they want to send one, yes.

[@twowheelslater7112]

Sounds like more of a dirt jump bike than anything. I may just take a pass on that one. Trails around here are super rooted out and full of switchbacks. I need something that rails corners but is still compliant. I wander how the nukeproof scout measures up?

[@deanemberley2333]

Yes it’s called a FS bike

[@hardtailparty]

I'm going to have to agree with Dean on this one. If you want a hardtail that's super compliant, look at the banshee paradox v3 I reviewed. That or a ti RSD middle child.

[@twowheelslater7112]

@@deanemberley2333 ahhh. Full sus is for folks that like their kidneys. I actually ride a canyon lux but I miss having a ht around for certain rides and a to ave as a spare.

[@rjahn3000]

Thank yet another great review, any chance of a Honzo or big Honzo review would be great they seem similar to the Timberjack but less stand over which is great for short legs like mine?

[@hardtailparty]

The honzo St is far stiffer than the timberjack. I haven't ridden an alloy honzo. The timberjack has a shorter reach. I'd like to try a big honzo sometime.

[@ish474]

I have a Big Honzo and its a great trail bike but I'm buying a Meta because I want something with less reach and a higher BB to be closer to a dirtjumper

[@walken199]

Where is this place? It looks amazing, I wish I could live somewhere like that! where I live in the south west of France it rains most of the winter and there are no such things as trails

[@666psicko]

It's Sedona AZ.

[@alejandrojofre8644]

Did you find the M size frame to be cramped?

[@the-cyber-monkey]

Any idea if they improved the stiffness of the frame in the 2021 version? I was trying to weigh up if I get this frame or the Nukeproof Scout

[@hardtailparty]

No idea, sorry.

[@teikjoon]

For us that have this bike (and are kind of stuck with it), what can we do to make it more rideable? I know Ben Yorke is running 2.6 tyres and a Fox 36 up front, and The Shredist changed this tyres to 2.5 front and 2.4 back.

[@hardtailparty]

Great question. There's really not a whole lot you can do to alter the way a frame feels. However, here are a few tips to making it sting a little less: Is the stiffness bothering you? If not, no need to modify anything and you're golden. If so, I would try cushcore and 2.8 tires on 40i rims. I'd make sure it was a nice soft aluminum wheelset too. I'd stay away from carbon and I'd stay away from i9's wheelsets (their hubs are fine though). You could also run the ZIPP 3ZERO Moto wheels, but those cost more than the whole bike. You can run lower tire pressure and try composite pedals. Those are the only things I can think of to lessen the harshness of the frame.

[@teikjoon]

@@hardtailparty I've ridden this for almost a year, and yes it does seem to be difficult to get the rear tyre up and over things. But I was a bit sad when you didn't test the bike on the descent, since this bike is classified as an 'enduro hard tail' and (for me at least) it feels very good when pointed downwards. Will try the cushcore, have been meaning to try those out anyways...do I need cushcore on the front, or will installing cushcore on the back wheel only be enough?

[@ryanakins]

Ben Yorke also is running a 2020 frame and has Cush core in both tires. Also the fox 36 170mm is a big improvement from the Rockshox Yari. This is one mans review so don't let it be end all be all for you. Meta ht am is a great bike and just not his cup of tea which is fine. You can upgrade the yard with the 2.1 charger which essentially turns it into the lyrik. You can also up the travel to 170 if you'd like.

[@ritchfrancis7553]

I appreciate the Commencal ht being stiff as I am quite a heavy rider. But really, can a HT really absorb bumps? I mean is there a big difference between other frames brands? I know they can flex from side to side but on vertical?

[@hardtailparty]

Yes, there's a big difference. About the same difference as running 30psi vs 25psi. That said, bigger riders often enjoy stiffer frames, as frames move differently under different weight riders.

[@timdean909]

My thoughts is try a longer stem until back end starts to lift up on front end wheelies

[@hardtailparty]

That will definitely help, at the cost of steering feel. I can do up to about a 60mm stem before it feels too weird.

[@ronnieelliott7292]

What do you think of the Saracen mantra?