Commodore 16 & The Worst Video Game? - Computerphile

[@alexholker1309]

*Sees Green Beret* "That looks fine, just like I remember it!" *Sees Commodore 16 Green Beret* "Oh."

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

If I remember correctly, the original idea for the C16 was that it would be a bare-bones system selling for $49 to undercut the Sinclair but feature-creep kept increasing the cost. $49 would have been a huge game changer if they could have pulled it off.

[@zzstoner]

OMG! I remember Green Beret on the C64 and it was brutally hard. But this C16 version looks like it was typed in from a COMPUTE! magazine issue (complete with checksum verifier) :)

[@blackterminal]

Will a Plus 4 play the new 64k games for expanded c16 computers?

[@LoveDoctorNL]

It was nice to learn basics and machine code on. My career in IT started with this machine 😊

[@Alisand1999]

It's the only thing about C16 that it hampered the games development for the Plus4. i mean the 64 kbytes RAM and more advanced games.

[@chrisfreemesser]

The Commodore 16 and Plus/4 never caught on here in the US because there simply was no market for it. Back in '85 we were perfectly happy with the C64 and its contemporaries (I was an Atari 8-bit user myself), all of which were pretty affordable by our standards (especially when compared to things like an IBM PC/AT, Macintosh, or an Apple IIe). From what I remember of those days a particular model computer (like a C64) cost more in Europe than it did here, so computers that offered a lot of value (like the C16, Plus/4, and a bit later the Atari ST) seemed to find more of market in Europe than here in the US.

[@vytah]

Did they forgot to disable the hardware cursor and left it flickering in the top left of the screen?

[@maxusboostus]

Yes the flashing cursor is rather odd. Probably used valuable CPU cycles that.

[@vytah]

@@maxusboostus The TED chip has support for hardware cursor, so unlike on C64, flashing it was essentially free. It's just that it looks totally out of place. The programmer should have hidden it below the screen (you cant disable it entirely) by writing $FF to $FF0C and $FF0D

[@maxusboostus]

I see, Thank you vytah , I wonder if some clever demo coder could use it as some form of hardware sprite, although it would probably have its position locked to a 8x8 grid and would probably be blinking all the time!

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

How would plugging/unplugging a joystick damage the machine? Weren't the joysticks essentially just a bunch of switches like other joysticks of the period? How would the machine even 'know' there was a joystick connected unless a direction or the fire button was pressed? Did the C16 joysticks actually have circuitry inside them?

[@grn1]

Not familiar with those joysticks in particular but I presume the issue was with power management. After a quick web search I found a pinout for the joystick connector which shows it has power, ground, 4 Joystick connection (direction), an 'A' button connection, and a Data connection. Presumably the reason removing a joystick actually killed the TED chip is because removing it would cause a spike in board power which the TED chip and power supply weren't able to properly handle (on a modern system power is smoothed and there's quite a few safeties to ensure a power spike won't cause an issue). The C16 would presumably detect the presence of a joystick by detecting if the joysticks power/ground circuit was complete so it could have also been a bug in the TED chip causing it to freak out when the connection was interrupted.

[@sifrsifr2202]

Xargon Wars by Gremlin Graphics was my favourite on the C16. The sound effects made that game.

[@TheNordicVoyager]

And there I was in '85-ish with my C116 and no games to play because my friends with their C16's told me that the 16's games won't run on my computer. So I spent my time learning Basic instead until I got a C64 two years later. :/

[@MIK_F40]

@4:24 😂 Bandits at Zero is 12k 😂 A couple of commercual games that will run on a C16 with 32k... Treasure Island, Jet Set Willy (Enhanced Version +4), Jump Jet.

[@anchorbait6662]

"Everyone is coming at him with guns and he's only got a knife to ward them off" Reminds me of that sketch where he gets attacked by a man holding a banana!! Haha

[@bgezal]

Release the tiger!

[@olivertv6175]

Self-Defence Against Fresh Fruit 🍌🍇

[@anchorbait6662]

@@olivertv6175 lol get that eggplant away from me!!! :p

[@laban123321]

@anchor Bait i think thats the sketch im locking fore! Do you have a name or a link????

[@anchorbait6662]

@@laban123321 yeah, just do a KZbin search for "self defense against fruit" it's a monty python deal. Enjoy! :)

[@SpookyFan]

I had Green Beret on the C64. I had a love/hate relationship with the difficulty level. Mostly hate - but when I somehow didn't die quickly, it felt great.

[@arcanics1971]

As a Speccy owner my friends and I mocked people who got a C16 for Xmas. I think I actually stood behind people doing the actual mocking rather than doing it myself, but I laughed along. Now I would love one.

[@Alphadec]

spectrum..... omg

[@SendyTheEndless]

We had a C64 and one of the things I remember everyone doing was taking their power pack and mounting it inside an ice-cream tub with a fan in it to stop it overheating. Then there was the ZX-81 that could go wrong just by you looking at it too aggressively!

[@RetroRecollections]

Lovely collection of C16 games and hardware. My childhood computer, it's not the best but I still love it and cover it a lot on my channel. I just can't help going back to it! :)

[@openscholar9908]

Love my c16. It has a tutorial cartridge thats pretty fun to mess with.

[@DanFrederiksen]

Did he say it was a much bigger success than C64? I remember seeing a C16 once but everyone had C64s here in Denmark.

[@vytah]

He said "far more successful than its larger brother", referring to the Plus/4. I'm not sure if it's even accurate, as 40% of sold computers from the 264 line were the Plus/4s. I'd say C16 sold better in some markets, C116 in others and Plus4 in others, but there's no clear winner.

[@antichrist666uk]

I'm glad someone asked this, that's what I thought, but the reply makes sense.

[@Turrican]

Plus 4 was my first computer. Some of the well programmed games approached C64 quality, with speech! The basic was better, there was a built in assembler and the cpu was slightly faster, though held back by TED somewhat. Some recent hombrew games are amazing. Underrated machine.

[@smokkku]

It was the bane of C16 line - the lowest common denominator. It didn't matter you shelled for Plus/4. Publishers were selling games for C16, because that covered the widest market. With C64 there was no lower-end option, so all software (games) were designed for the full 64k machine.

[@Orxenhorf]

The Commodore 64 (at least the model I had) was prone to the power supply failing. When that happened it would start displaying random characters in random colors on the screen as you typed or listed a program.

[@maxusboostus]

C16 Green beret tape loader used Novaload, RIP Paul Woakes.

[@Antireality]

You say that there's not many games that don't work on the plus/4, but I found that Rockman was actually one of them. It ran, but the character set was scrambled, so I guess they used the wrong address and the limited C16 memory meant it mapped correctly, but with the full 64k of a plus/4 it didn't. Could also be that I had an early copy, and they fixed this later...

[@DutchMaster6]

I recognize this game from the NES, where it was called Rush N' Attack

[@thisisnootnoots]

Instantly thought of this quote when I saw ‘worst video game?’ “Did it cause the crash of the entire western games industry? No? Well, then E.T. for the Atari 2600 remains the worst game ever.” - Yahtzee Croshaw

[@flamewingsonic]

I thought of A2600's E.T. as well.

[@jasejj]

ET did not cause the crash of the "entire" Western games industry. Only the Yank one.

[@99Kuromaru]

@@jasejj that's just people and their America-centric views. But I agree, that was my first thought when I read the quote, too.

[@brainimp]

wheres the extra bits video, link in description is dead :(

[@PWN4G3FTW]

works for me

[@Kekule1025]

Pretty lovable video about the 264 Commodore machines here!

[@brettbreet]

Is that "Strip Poker" at 5:24 xD

[@ArneSchmitz]

@1:20 I guess the third IC was the BASIC ROM?

[@Tjousk]

Extra bits unavailable?

[@Computerphile]

Hey, totally my fault >Sean - should be good now - I'm blaming KZbin Studio Beta...

[@scouse1967]

Just to add which games wont work on a 64k upgraded C16, is Rockman/cassette version. The game loads no problem but when it loads up and you press a "Fire button" or a key on the keyboard, the game itself turns into blocks and is completely un-playable.

[@lofi-guy]

I had Green Beret on the Plus 4. I wanted a Commodore 64 but my parents came home one day with a PLUS 4 instead. They must have got it cheap in a Dixons promotion or something. Green Beret may have been bundled with it but I'm not absolutely sure.

[@kridocaign5722]

Why don't you solder a capacitor between the high and ground pins on the joystick ports to fix the problem of hot-swapping them frying things?

[@melvinbutters2865]

Wasnt this released as Rush n attack on Nintendo in the states?

[@noredine]

"It wouldn't be a total surprise if the tape player chews it up in disgust" haha

[@AsmodeusMictian]

My first computer was a C64. I today years old when I found out they made a C16....and oh the horrors lol.

[@scottvoltageable]

Thrust and G-Man, Return of rockman, winter olympics, mr puniverse were some of my favorates

[@bgezal]

Laughs in C-64 master race

[@zeikjt]

Ashens! Come see this!

[@cmuller1441]

I liked Green Beret... On C64...

[@ManicEngine]

Going to rig up a liquid-cooled radiator to mount on the heatsink of my VIC-20 so I can really overclock that bad boy

[@doyowan]

Is that the same computer Karl Pilkington received for Christmas as a kid and then got sick due to not being able to play it because he was missing the RAM pack?

[@AutoFirePad]

Amazing Green Beret version!

[@pomegran100]

No, Commando on the C16 was the worst game ever. Don't believe me, look it up. Shocking

[@tedkraan9348]

@@d3m0no That's a bit of an urban myth that lingers over the Internet. E.T. was overproduced in a saturated market, then the surplus was thrown in a ditch in the desert. Making poor logistical and accounting decisions doesn't equate to a game being bad. E.T. was bad, but there is far more awkward stuff you can find from those days.

[@lcalvom]

That GREEN BERET version on the C16 is really awful indeed. Great video as always!

[@landmanland]

I think that Hareraiser is the worst game ever. Search on KZbin for “Ashens worst game” to find a lecture by Ashens.

[@teddyboragina6437]

this 8-bit guy video is great, but something is a bit different

[@micr0xchip0xverflow6]

Wow seeing this reminds me of the first game I ever played. Buck Rogers planet of zoom, although I think it was a commodore 64. Not sure was really young

[@BazzaHSpeccymad]

Wouldve been quite interesting to see the c16 version of commando. It's absolutely hideous on the BBC micro, but the c16 has a better version of paperboy than the BBC so would've been interesting to see how the two versions of commando compared

[@Kekule1025]

Ah well known story that one: according to the author himself, it has been written in one week without any reference about C16, and that's the classic destiny for all the 1st generation C16 conversions by Elite; on the other hand, to convert Paperboy, has been hired a C16 experienced coder like Jörg Dierks.

[@lewis72]

The only game I bought for my Commodore 16 was Olympiad by Tynesoft. It was about £4.99 in '85 and was utterly terrible.

[@scotshabalam2432]

Clickbait title. 9:57 and I've seen worse.

[@arkonza]

Well to paraphrase Zero Punctuation “Worst game ever? Really? Well did it cause the crash the entire western games industry? No? Then E.T. for the Atari 2600 remains the worst game ever.”

[@the1gip]

Weird point but I love his accent. My best guess is Suffolk?

[@kweeky33]

Not so bad for a zx81 game :)

[@097_shashanksahu6]

Computerphile❤❤

[@RedCMD]

Theres a high pitch noise duing the whole video :( Hello allo

[@peterfiser]

That watch tho.

[@pepeledog]

Owned a Vic 20 myself.

[@sophiacristina]

Cool, he have one of those calculators watch!

[@frepi]

@3:47 I knew he'd have that Casio calculator/agenda watch!

[@appenginenode]

This looks like like he'd rather be playing golf I'm afraid

[@mapelaanjakoodaansuomeksi3432]

Good videos. 👌😎👍

[@StefanReich]

That video seems a bit unfinished

[@dervis621]

I remember this game, i finished it on C64 when i was a kid. It was great. :D But this version is awful, C64 version had nice colors and scrolling etc.

[@boumbh]

7:05 Rockman... awful box art already

[@DanFrederiksen]

btw, glad we have progressed from those horrid machines and I look to the future of what the coming contrast will be. Star trek is not that far. Mark my words.

[@99Kuromaru]

What elements of Star Trek? The teleport we probably can't have because physics, warp drive that is questionable too, or a socialist society? :D yeah, I don't think the future is gonna be like what Star Trek depicted :P

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@99Kuromaru I hope you can see my answer. KZbin is all too fond of deceptive censorship.

[@Krafterr4]

This is excellent.

[@uriituw]

You wouldn’t want to have any Amiga videos yet. No, sir-ee! Instead, have a video about an obscure game on an unpopular platform!

[@uriituw]

Yes Man I have heard of it, and I never said it’s irrelevant. It wasn’t that popular.

[@scatterlogical]

I dunno, looks like Crysis to me.

[@SJrad]

Atari ET says hi

[@edmundventura]

He speaks like an arms dealer from a B-Movie... Calm down dude! :D

[@trol9880]

The worst game is and will be Fortnight

[@amirabudubai2279]

Forgetting about PUBG? No surprise, everyone else did too.

[@jonathonmalowany5477]

6th

[@Intskints]

1

[@TobyTheAwesomenator]

-second- edit: third

[@Freddan0]

The worst video on Computerphile? Holt moly that was boring

[@PrimeRibb69]

They should have done what they did with the c128 and made the peripherals back wards compatible.