Commodore 64c | Meet the C64 with Jan Beta | Trash to Treasure (1/3)

[@RMCRetro]

Apologies for the re-release I was having problems with YT flagging it as unsuitable for ads/monetization. I took the opportunity to make a couple of minor edits thanks to your feedback and reupload it with a manual review. Thank you again to Jan Beta, SIDNIFY and Matthew for his donation of the C64. Enjoy!

[@Elkott]

RetroManCave I can't think of anything that made it unfriendly to advertisers, anyway will watch and like again :)

[@reggiep75]

I don't get KZbin these days when a vintage computer related video is flagged and I watched the previous version of the vid yesterday and didn't feel anything was unsuitable in it, yet there are thousands of other unsuitable videos with questionable morals that make millions for Google/KZbin that are left alone. They're probably sick of having an 11 year old business that has barely broke even so aggressive theft and ads for the higher viewed videos are the options they supplied to their savage bot army! They'd look unhappy if there was a mutiny and people with the power to sought to demonetise their own videos to make a point and impact Google's earning power!

[@-CelShader-]

RetroManCave do they give you any reason as to why the videos get flagged? I don’t get it.

[@RMCRetro]

Bernard Shapiro no sir, you get the same copy/paste list of what makes a video unsuitable every time you ask

[@Elkott]

RetroManCave could be the use of the word hooligan, can't have that kinda language on KZbin 😄

[@losalfajoresok]

I'm from Argentina and have my Drean Commodore 64 PAL that my dad gave when I was 10 years old, he passed away 2 years later and I still have it but doesn't work anymore. I wish to restaure it some time with the help of someone like you. Great video!

[@arjanvanraaij8440]

contact Jan Beta and send him a extra drean to keep.

[@roskelld]

It's cold out and I felt like I needed to get cozy with some classic trash to treasure. There's just something so warm and fuzzy about the cleaning up of an old system.

[@Dorelaxen]

Home computers were much less prevalent in the US, so I didn't get the chance to actually grow up with the C64, but our school had one tossed back in the corner of the computer room (filled entirely with Apple IIe computers). Back in 1999, a friend of mine that I had lost touch with contacted me telling me he was dying and wanted his computer collection to go to someone who could appreciate it. Now I have several working C64s (along with a TON of other stuff, even more now since I actively collect retro computers), and have explored the library as much as I can (given that there are literally tens of thousands of games for it). So glad there are guys like you able to actually work on these old systems and keep 'em working. Emulation is fine and all, but there's nothing like hooking one up to an old TV or monitor and enjoying it how it was meant to be.

[@GORF_EMPIRE]

Huh? I did not know many people without a computer back in the day. Maybe your area was less likely?

[@roaaaar]

I'm following your channel for few month now and it is always very high quality, congratulations!

[@RMCRetro]

Thank you sir. 2018 has a lot in store. Stick around :D

[@philrod1]

Stellar work on this video. Nice little cameo appearance from Jan Beta, too. His channel is definitely going to appeal to a lot of Cave dwellers.

[@RMCRetro]

+Phil Rodgers Absolutely, Jan has some great content

[@mattjackson9859]

Yeah! Azimuth Head Alignment was awesome! Spent hours on that! ☺

[@jimjamz.]

This video inspired me to open my own Commodore 64C for the very first time since it's purchase in 1989. Surprisingly, it was spotless inside and I have the same assembly model and revision as you. I also have a different external serial to the internal one, but I suspect everyone did as the factory assembly line was just a slue of spare parts.

[@RMCRetro]

+jimjamz well done it's always worth having a check before it's too late and caps are leaking. I don't think serial numbers meant anything to the factory ours came out of 🤠

[@dpw81]

Already watched, but will watch again. Hopefully you get even more views this time, the video deserves it. Keep it up!

[@TheRealMentat001]

Glad to see the video back. Great job! As I said in the last comments, I had that same board rev. on my first C64. I killed it one day exactly as you said. I fried the CIA with a static shock to the joystick port. I think I still have that board in storage at my parents place. I should fix it one of these days now that I know how.

[@Charky_Creations]

I'm glad you mentioned it's a reupload. I saw the notification and could have sworn I watched it yesterday. I was worried for a moment :P Hope you've got the monetisation thing sorted out- I know it's been particularly bad lately.

[@RMCRetro]

I have thank you, and will introduce a 2 day delay before listing in future to allow me to contest KZbin before I go public, with early access to Patrons while I'm doing it. What a faff.

[@jeremyusbourne6289]

My very first computer I had as a child I asked father Christmas for lol. What memories. Great video Niel.

[@seanc.5310]

The intro music is fantastically fitting and uber dramatic...well done mate!

[@RMCRetro]

Thanks Sean that's the band Sidnify, well worth checking out

[@teddybeddy123]

Love these videos. You've really fuelled my passion for computers. I'd love it if you covered the original PC- the IBM 5150.

[@RMCRetro]

If I ever get my hands on one you can be assured that it will get the full works! Glad to hear you're inspired, let me know if you get stuck into anything interesting

[@teddybeddy123]

Sweet. This channel is the best!

[@randywatson8347]

I like the way you explain things short and clearly. Nice video!

[@Horzuhammer]

Got myself a similar unit recently - almost identical in fact. I had a different 64C previously (for like a week.) It's case opened with screws, and the keyboard was held in place from the bottom of the case, with screws too. However that computer turned out to have some problems after just a couple days of me using it.. Fortunately the guy I bought the computer from is a serious 64 user, and an awesome guy to boot, as he offered to send me a new one and take the bad one back for repairs, as I don't have any spare parts etc. Glad you said that thing about the rf-shield! 10c is surprisingly lot! This is my second time watching these vids, and I'd missed that part the first time. That's exactly why I'm rewatching now as a novice C64-owner. :P Hit pause _immediately_ and took off the shield out of my unit! *EDIT:* Oh, and my warranty-sticked was already broken. :(

[@Axess-sv8nq]

I loved the C64 era! Some highlights for me were: Ultima series RPG's, Phantasie series RPG's, Hardball, Ghostbusters, Impossible Mission, Sky Fox, Beyond The Forbidden Forest, Sword of Fargoal, Ultimate Wizard, Sid-Player, Wizardry RPG series, Bard's Tale RPG series, and the Castle Wolfenstein series! I also ran a BBS with C-Net and met a GF there when she signed onto my system! And, of course, the great old Q-Link!

[@MrKrimstah]

Thank you so much for making this series it made me go out and buy a c64 , never had one and missed the bus due to being born in the late eighties , ended up with the same board number but it's a revision 4 so maybe there are more after b

[@RMCRetro]

MrKrimstah ah that's lovely to hear I hope you're enjoying it

[@wimwiddershins]

I just dug out my C64c from 1987. It now has VIC heatsink, an SD2IEC installed a modern switchmode PSU and an Epyx fastload cart. 'tis more awesome than ever. :)

[@rtesimpson]

Thanks RMC...Love your videos...

[@RMCRetro]

+Rob Simpson thanks for watching Rob

[@9uuuu]

It's back BB

[@AnimalFacts]

The C64. When computing was fun.

[@GadgetUK164]

Thumbs up to you and Jan =D

[@saarek]

Very through and informative as always. Can't wait to see that C64 reborn.

[@Daz555Daz]

Picked one of these recently for my collection. Whilst I had a breadbin back in the day I went with the 64C simply because it will look much nicer next to the Amiga on my desk.

[@Daz555Daz]

I've had a quick look inside my 64C now and it seems very different to this one (the serial on the case is about half the value of the one here) and first notable external feature is the case has screws and not clips. It also has a full metal shield above and below the motherboard. The metal shield also comes into contact with the SID, VIC-II and the CPU and has thermal paste applied. The motherboard is a 250469 Rev 4 which I think is the revision below the one here.

[@andysimpson8974]

7:30 ~ ish My C64C has screws where those tabs are, including under the warranty seal. Feel a bit ripped off...

[@KaroKoenich]

Two great youtubers in one video. Thanks!

[@mancavehobbies6213]

Neal you have come a long way since this video

[@joed2392]

Dude !! Great Info........ But you didn't say much about the graphics capabilities ! One of the greatest graphics features of the C64....... SPRITES !!

[@youreallyplaythat]

This was a great one. Thanks!

[@ivuldivul]

OMG! Cardboard RF shield - what a joke!

[@SpearM3064]

+DestinationVoid It did what it was supposed to do. It brought the RF emissions down to FCC regulations, and was cheaper than the high-quality metal RF shield that Texas Instruments insisted on in the TI-99/4A. (TI's insistence on top-quality *everything* is what killed them in the 8-bit price wars. They simply could not produce their computer as cheaply as the C64, which kept them from being able to compete on price.) Remember that Jack Tramiel was in charge of Commodore at the time. His entire philosophy can be summed up as follows: "Money, dear boy. Make it as cheap as possible so as many people as possible can afford it."

[@MultiArrie]

you have the latest version of de c64 c case with tabs. i have earlyer with 3 screws in the bottom part

[@morphshag]

I watched this video yesterday, but since it got flagged I let it play right through again today 😀😀

[@RMCRetro]

+John-Paul Parker thank you, I really appreciate your support

[@CJWarlock]

It's a first time I see a C64 case with latches of which the middle one is not functional. All cases of this type I've seen had all three latches fully functional and it was actually necessary to remove the warranty sticker to release the middle latch and to open the case. And I've seen many C64's through out the last 20+ years. Wasn't this case damaged in some way to make it forcibly open without damaging the warranty sticker?

[@RonnieN1995]

RoboCop, pure sid magic. Goosebumps.

[@BollingHolt]

For some reason, while watching this video, I got "All about the Pentiums" stuck in my head LOL "You think your Commodore 64's really neato. What kind of chip you got in there, a Dorito?" -Weird Al

[@irrealepappa10]

Hi RetroManCave, I have a 250466 mainboard in my C64C, they say that motherboard was used on the latest "old C64" case, but also on the firsts "C64C" models. Any info about that? It's quite out of the ordinary I read somewhere.

[@andysimpson8974]

My C64C case has screws in the case where the clips were on your case. It was impossible to open the case without breaking the warranty seal. It was made in the Philippines.

[@Brylant1980]

awesome vido and that music at the end!!!

[@naytch2003]

Nice video man..im also a subscriber of Jan's..learnt alot off him;)

[@RMCRetro]

+naytch2003 Jan is the man!

[@robchissy]

the last ninja had the best music of any game on any computer until gran turismo on the ps1

[@dash8brj]

Yup, and being a multiload from tape and disk, the game had some awesome tunes to listen to while you waited for the next level to load! :)

[@flibblesan]

Excellent video!

[@MicrophonicFool]

There is no way one would find The Way of the Exploding Fist on anything but diskette in North America. Mind you, I did have to trade a perfectly functional Snowmobile to buy a 1541 drive, age 13. I guarantee that precise moment I received the money from the sale I went to buy said drive. In any case, to play Exploding Fist on cassette in Canada was impossible.

[@GeoStreber]

my C64c doesn't have these tabs, it has screws, including one under the warranty label. I guess yours is even newer, and they tried to save costs on the screws

[@andrewlittleboy8532]

I recapped my machine but never bothered to check the esr of the old caps, when you recap yours would be good to know how the old ones test.

[@leeh3568]

Apparently the tab no screw case was last yet rev a board I have 64c srcew case rev b made in china ser 1099202 so im still not sure was man caves board not orig to that case?

[@ScottsGameAsylum]

The Hoff approves lol

[@chrisrobson8540]

thought id better give this a rewatch as i wait with baited breath for my £30 ebay untested c64c to arrive cant wait to get my hands on one again after 35 years :) any tips or ideas on first steps greatly appreciated

[@TheRealMafoo]

liking and adding a comment to help with monetization. I watched the first one :) Cheers.

[@spyware1100]

What about c64G? As i know, c64G was the latest revision of commodore 64. Did it use a shortboard?

[@fubaralakbar6800]

My first computer. Oh, how I wish to have one again...

[@WiggysanWiggysan]

Neil? Do you want another C64C ? Same as this, stored in a loft for years, working unknown ?

[@DavidRichUK]

Great video. Where do you get the rubber matting with the squares on. Want to pick one up but don’t know what to search for to get that style most are just normal plain ones. Many thanks

[@RMCRetro]

David Rich thanks for watching! Search for "cutting mat". Mine is A2 in size.

[@leongt1954]

Just watched a guy take apart the new C64 and the case was 90% empty, How technology has changed

[@kentb3175]

Can you play Bangkok nights? I remember buying that game WH Smith in 1986.

[@RMCRetro]

Kent B sure thing I'll try to include it in pt2

[@kentb3175]

Thank you Sir.

[@FingerLickinKw33F]

Well shall re watch so you get the revenue. Keep up the good work kind sir.

[@RMCRetro]

+Sulaco my viewers never cease to amaze me. Thank you sir

[@wrestletube1]

PLA must have been the original FPGA chips of their time.

[@Synthematix]

king of the 8 bits by a country mile. but that space bar needs help lol

[@RMCRetro]

Synthematix it sure does. We'll be looking at that in part 2

[@Synthematix]

looks like its been on the beer m8

[@PCsrot]

Great video. i have this C64 + dataset Datamark. I do not open it

[@wrestletube1]

It's like they intentionally made a removable big metal RF block with shield knowing that there would be a future technology like RGB Scart before hand and HDMI blocks you can stuff in that place instead and soldier your own traces from the better 9 pin video output to your new better block edition HDMI replaceing the big block of the RF video output. Would an HDMI motherboard and port fit in the metal case though to make the mod happen or would you have to use a custom case to hold the new port in a replacement it of tech cleaver either way to include a massive metal box where the RF motheroard stays in allowing for better ports of nowadays to be put in it's place because it's so big it probably outsizes an HDMI motherboard holder anyway allowing you to bung a new custom output on the board for better quality easy.

[@katakis4525]

8:13 Why did your audience need to know what Jan looked like when he was a child?

[@TheD4VR0S]

Question : Why would you want to attach a Real Time Clock ? (5:30)

[@RMCRetro]

Primarily to time stamp files when you create or modify them

[@TheD4VR0S]

@@RMCRetro Thanks you would think a c64 would have a clock built in like the ibm p.c

[@confusedkemono]

robocop 3 title menu ayyy

[@RMCRetro]

Ayyyyyy!

[@rickylovesyou]

It looks similar to a commodore 128.

[@pelgervampireduck]

hehehe I love the robocop 3 nes music!

[@vduk]

nice, i have the same one (same version) but my picture is all snowy over coax cable

[@Axess-sv8nq]

I remember 'Way of the Exploding Fist' and that hellishly LOUD scream when the game first started! LOL! EDIT: What I'm talking about: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3yml6aXhrR3gNE

[@SpearM3064]

+Axess2084 I know, right? I remember the first time I started up 'Way of the Exploding Fist', and that scream came out of the speaker. I almost jumped high enough to leave my trousers in the chair and hit the ceiling.

[@Axess-sv8nq]

+SpearM3064 - Every so often, my friends would catch someone unaware of the scream starting the game for the first time. They'd tell the unsuspecting victim: "With this game, you have to turn the volume up a little bit before you start it because the music is very quiet at the beginning!" - and madness would ensue!

[@SpearM3064]

+Axess2084 The running joke between me and my friends was, "Why is he screaming so loud? Did his fist explode?" ;^)

[@Axess-sv8nq]

LMAO!

[@mdrumt]

Re-liked and re-watched

[@RMCRetro]

+Mo Tee thank you for your support

[@KuraIthys]

Cardboard shielding huh. Really pinching those pennies to get these things out cheaply... Woow...

[@grommdk]

awesome video!! - any chance you can make one likely around the Amiga 1200?

[@RMCRetro]

grommdk I would love to. I have an a1200 in fine shape so I don't need to restore it (unless another is donated in bad shape), but I could make a comparison to the A500 to show how they improved upon it?

[@grommdk]

that would be epic :)

[@RMCRetro]

grommdk I'll see what I can do early next year. I'll enjoy that one

[@grommdk]

so will i :-) greetings from denmark. Merry christmas and a happi new year :-)

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

It is strange that COMMODORE INC do not see fit to use a nine track head so you have eight tracks for data and the ninth track for the clock track to clock the bytes in one after the other and also speed up loading and saving.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

Just means that you get bored waiting for you game to load and you just go and do something less boring instead and totally forget about the reason that you started loading the game sorry.

[@SpearM3064]

+DAVID GREGORY KERR That's why turbotape programs were so popular. They sacrificed reliability for speed, and relied on much more precise timing, but they reduced the time it took to load a program by a factor of ten or more. I could go digging through my collection of COMPUTE! magazines and explain how their TurboTape program worked (everyone's turbo tape routine worked in a very similar manner, with minor technical details being the only difference), but I don't think a wall of text will benefit anyone. Anyway, Commodore designed their tape encoding back in the day when their computers only had 4 to 8 kilobytes of RAM. Slow tape routines would not have been as big an issue; even at 50 bytes per second, the average program would load in about 3 minutes... and it would take only half as long if Commodore didn't save TWO copies of the program. (The second copy is for error correction. You only get a LOAD error if there are any errors in the first copy that can't be fixed from the second copy, or if you get more than 30 errors in the first copy.) For compatibility reasons, they never changed their tape routines (except for the Plus/4 and C16, which have a tape format that is incompatible with all their other computers). The obvious side-effect is that on computers with more memory, like the C64, your program could take 20 minutes to load unless you used some sort of Turbo loading scheme. Just so you know, *nobody* had a really fast built-in tape routine (not counting turbo loaders). It's a limitation of the cassette tape technology. Also, *nobody* used a timing track. The ZX Spectrum, Apple ][, Atari 400/800, etc., all had tape speeds that *averaged* 180 bytes per second... which is still about 3.5 times faster than Commodore's tape routines.

[@reggiep75]

I've always been curious about how data was saved and loaded and how it maintained accuracy even on a system like cassette. A video about how 8-bit cassette systems worked would be interesting.

[@SpearM3064]

+reggiep75 I totally agree. It'd be interesting even for those of us who already know how it worked. However, I can go ahead and sum up the difference between Commodore and everyone else in layman's terms (because I'm sure people are wondering how everyone else's tapes were more than three times faster). Let's look at the byte 0xAA. In binary, that's 10101010. Here's how Commodore would do it: Medium, short, short, medium, medium, short, short, medium, medium, short, short, medium, medium, short, short, medium. Here's how everyone else did it: Long, short, long, short, long, short, long, short. See how much shorter that is? Another example would be 00000000. Commodore: short, medium, short, medium, short, medium, short, medium, short, medium, short, medium, short, medium, short, medium. Everyone else: short, short, short, short, short, short, short, short. *However* ... It should be obvious from my examples that Commodore's encoding scheme makes sure that there are never more than two short pulses or more than two medium pulses in a row. If it detects three (or more) in a row, it knows there's an error. They did something similar in their disk drives. Every 4 bits was converted into a 5 bit GCD code, in such a way that there would never be more than two 1's or two 0's in a row, to make it easier to detect errors. Like I said, Commodore chose reliability over speed.

[@GORF_EMPIRE]

HAve yet to watch parts 2 and 3.... hoping you fix up that less than stellar video quality on the C64.

[@AndyDavis007]

Still only using Commodore 64 emulation but I did come across this, 10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1));:GOTO 10

[@NoWay23548]

Anyone else thinking that this is “the new version” of C64 an thus not being as retro? 🙂

[@gerhardprins1412]

You mean the techmoan Matthew?

[@alhartman66]

What's a Breadbin?

[@RMCRetro]

It's the nickname of yhe early generation C64 cases. They look like a bread bin

[@Tom2404]

I have a C64 with the later board, but in an older style case. Sadly it is dead.

[@Kundalini12]

I had a C64 up until 2004 when I broke it. I fell off the bed after some drinking and put my arse straight through it. It may have only been the keyboard circuit that was broken but it was enough to make me throw it out.

[@MrButtonpresser]

Re-liked

[@RMCRetro]

+MrButtonpresser re-thumbs up! Thanks

[@Dr.D00p]

Is it worth the hassle of redoing the video and re uploading? I mean, I can't imagine that you'd earn more than a few pennies (literally) from this video. Nobody gets rich from such niche topics as this on KZbin.

[@RMCRetro]

Martin Mac true but the goal isn't to get rich, only to fund future episodes and hardware to appear in them. There is also the principal of the thing with YT pushing a very broken system which affects a much wider group of creators than just me.

[@nebularain3338]

Martin Mac, The fact that your mind went straight to "how much money can be made" says a lot about you, and that lot isn't good.

[@werre2]

C64 original model is clearly better because the petscii characters were on the SIDE of the keycaps. Superior technology.

[@wrestletube1]

An AMIGA C64. The breadbin was better as it looked unique I think plus it had the amazing model of the SID chip whilst later ones were cheaper made. This model looks too el cheapo AMIGA 8-Bit ripoff tried too hard to be a 16/32-Bit AMIGA but it's only an 8-Bit C64. Still cooler to have than no C64 at all though.

[@xephorce]

KZbin is a joke. as a small time youtuber I cant compete in this ad environment. youtube is literally killing it for small timers. ATM I am trying to revamp my whole approach to my channel. most gameplay footage gets flagged now.

[@RMCRetro]

+xephorce I'm trying to figure it out myself. YT seem to be targeting the very source of their success right now

[@ryanyoder7573]

xephorce care to explain? I’m a viewer and want to post some day. What is happening?

[@xephorce]

youtube is flagging a lot of videos as inappropriate for ads. they give you some blanket reason for it and that is it. no explanation they claim a person review it but there is no way if they are banning C64 repair videos. One youtuber i watch literally had a video demonetized within seconds of it going live. How can youtube review a video that is 15 minutes long within with in seconds?

[@ryanyoder7573]

I thought Reagan knocked down the wall?

[@SpearM3064]

+xephorce Because, even though they claim a person reviews it, it only happens if you contest it. Otherwise it's just some sort of computer program they have, that scans it. Sort of like their algorithm that detects copyrighted music videos... if I were to post Michael Jackson's "Beat It" in its entirety (audio, video, or both), it would get automatically flagged for a copyright violation. What this program is supposed to do is look for certain kinds of content, such as violence. But it fails on so many levels... for example, don't you think game companies like Electronic Arts, Activision, etc., would *want* to advertise on gaming videos, even violent ones? Anyway, if you contest the flag, *then* a person reviews it.

[@TopSecretVid]

I want an ALDI C64 🇩🇪🇩🇪😀😀

[@aussieguy1012]

Looked at the prices of these used its DISGUSTING. There are literally millions of these and people want hundreds for these now. I had 2 as a kid this one and the breadbox the monitor the printer and the 1541. My dad threw it all in the dump as noone would buy it. Got given that whole lot for free played soooo many bootlegged games used to sit there for hrs going through the disks.

[@moshly64]

IMHO you are wasting your time recapping a c64, through hole electrolytic caps from the 80's have a high ESR anyway, replacing them with low ESR caps can stress out the power components more at power up. I would not bother unless a particular cap is shown to be faulty. (if you do replace them, measure the ones you take out.) The caps in the power brick are another story tho.

[@TheChiller20]

Mach es doch auf Deutsch

[@OverUnity7734]

0:03 Why did he call us Cape Feelers ?

[@ollieb9875]

Cave dwellers

[@RMCRetro]

+OverUnity7734 you're mistaken as always. It's shave fellas.

[@ollieb9875]

RetroManCave not smooth fellas 😂🙂?

[@RMCRetro]

Ollie B Brave Tellers?

[@ollieb9875]

RetroManCave move weller, smooth fella, you're a cave dwella and the best evva, keep smooth keep rhyme, stay shaved with the retro shine.