Free to Choose Part 6: What's Wrong With Our Schools Featuring Milton Friedman

[@JoshuaJensenMuleMan]

I am always amazed the extent to which Milton Friedman owns his critics

[@AndyHilton]

I was astonished at how relevant the circumstances and issues in the video apply today. Good to watch.

[@JoshuaJensenMuleMan]

Andy Hilton It is sad that if you watch nearly any of his debates with people back in the 70s and 80s, he so schools them that it is nearly painful, but that those people, just like statists of today, don't even recognize it. Beyond his obvious brilliance, these exchanges strike me as evidence that people prefer to skip the research and believe a narrative of their choice that is emotionally satisfying.

[@mikevonn3420]

+Joshua Jensen I think it is interesting how 'School' has come to mean something akin to 'abuse'. I think that is a testament to how poorly they are accomplishing their stated mission.

[@wilsio]

+Joshua Jensen It makes you wonder if debating these subjects has any merit whatsoever. Every solution that Friedman identified in the 70s is accelerating in the opposite direction.

[@mikevonn3420]

I think it does. Knowing and teaching economic truths can help protect individuals or small groups from the ill effects of those poor economic policies. During the height of the housing boom, my wife and I were looking for a house, but found that we were not willing to pay the massively inflated prices that were required to secure housing in our area. We did not see how the prices could continue rise. We only know now that it was the height of the housing crisis because we look in retrospect with the benefit of history. At the time many people were telling us that we needed to buy a house because we were are losing out on money. Knowing and studying the economic truths prevented us from financial damage in the housing crash. We bought a house short after the crash.

[@patrickking9600]

“It’s very hard to sell something when other people are giving it away” I love listening to this man talk

[@tommyz1082]

It's amazing watching these, how nothing has changed! we are still fighting over the same topics, and facing the same problems. the more things change the more they stay the same.

[@khalednabilcs]

Thomas Zumpetta you mean things got worst :-(

[@TexKimball]

I would've loved to see Friedman school Bernie Sanders in a debate. Pun intended.

[@Joselastico]

+Vault Boy®, so would I.

[@lamper2]

there'd be nothing left but a puddle of communist soup on the floor

[@Ryanrichey13]

Any Socialist or Progressive......

[@napoleon_bonaparte2462]

That basically happened in episode 1, there's a social democrat that is the spitting image of a younger sanders, who has all the same viewpoints and mannerisms.

[@latorgator23]

There’s a video on here somewhere that claims to show a young sanders being schooled by Friedman.

[@lrmcatspaw1]

It takes 5 minutes of listening to these people debate to notice something clearly: everyone is just defending their own interest (their institution, their job, their income). I am unsure what exactly Friedman would gain from his position (perhaps selling some books? but thats a maybe, and not an intermediate one), while everyone else is just defending their own direct and instant interest. Nice to see that people back then were pretty much like now. I think this is precisely why Milton Friedman is right, we just see how everyone cares for themselves in the debate, at the same time trying to defend a position that we "are good people and want to have social programs to help others". These guys are essentially confirming with their arguments/interests what he has been saying since the start.

[@honestabe6926]

I thought you were exaggerating, but you're absolutely correct. This segment probably could've been set up better...

[@EchoMike03]

BTW, notice that every person who is fundamentally against school choice on this panel, somehow works for, or makes their living off of PUBLIC EDUCATION.

[@douknoukemballsofsteel5830]

because that's the current system in place, and these people are the ones who have the balls to criticize that system

[@jayd4917]

Oh gosh, all these bureaucratic pencil pushers disagree with challenges to their monopoly.. Who would have figured lol. Acting in bad faith.

[@plunderfullplunder2471]

There would have to be some serious safe spaces set up for this event nowadays.

[@VaShthestampede2]

With that many racist xenophobes in 1 room? They'd have to call in the National Guard.

[@bradkeen1973]

Chris N yeah, how much hate crime can you fit into 30 minutes? Lol. Why isn't Antifa smashing in windows.

[@jnguyen8859]

YEAH! TV say world have bad.

[@stacyliddell5038]

Shows how weak the intelligentsia has become at debate and common decency.

[@77doodlebug]

It's amazing how 30+ years later we're still discussing the same things. This is what the whole "waiting for superman" documentary is about. Holding parents and teachers accountable for the education of our children. No wonder we have so many problems, when problems take more than 30 years to fix.

[@mtxrawkus]

"When people pay for what they get, they value what they get." This is one of the most powerful quotes in this video.

[@TheMicheloSaverio]

Unfortunately, very few of us are interested in this debate. Most people will never have this debate. Most will never question directly the failures and the inadequacies of the current system. Sadly, most of us will never see this. Most folks are watching the Kardasians, the basketball game, or a cartoon.

[@lamper2]

i'm watching this yet i'm gonna watch family guy later

[@TheMicheloSaverio]

Well family guy is tight

[@Ryanrichey13]

The systems are so complex and the bureaucracies so enigmatic (and set up in a way that is almost impossible to defund or stop a government program) that no one nowadays can even glean where to start. And you know the academics that might have an edge in the sense of it being their field of study; they are all for big government.

[@richtxn47]

Most people don't want to use their brain; they want stupid mindless entertainment, esp from the one eyed god they pray to every day.

[@JBittermusic]

Sad but true people dont talk about this things , he was and is right, look at Venezuelan socialist desaster to see why

[@bb-lq6dm]

Im rewatching the entire series in order. After watching it scattered the 1st time. This series is exquisite. I could rewatch a 3rd time.

[@PeterASandford]

@43:55 "GIVE US MORE MONEY AND IT WILL BE BETTTER", I have never heard that before. Thank you sir for enlightening me on the power of government!

[@BeastlyCold]

Besides a few minor quibbles I've encountered so far between the panel members, I have been nothing but pleasantly surprised at how civil the conversations have been. Each member is given a chance to speak and everyone respects whoever is speaking enough to let them finish. It's ironic that I have to go back in time four decades to feel a sense of refreshment in regards to how conversation is conducted and moderated.

[@SuperGregoryRoss]

I love these - eight against one and he still wins every time.

[@immozelle]

Hey, I went to McCollum for a year in the mid 70's. The sight of the hills brings me back.

[@matthewrichardson828]

@16:20 "I'm not sure that parents know what's best, educationally, for their children [...]" This guy just said that professionals who run public schools are held accountable through the democratic processes. What makes parents who don't know what education is best for their children qualified to vote for the bureaucrats who provide said education?

[@countchocula2169]

Matthew Richardson sick

[@matthewrichardson828]

Cheers. Sometimes debates can be settled simply by letting the other party make their whole point.

[@SirCharlesFinley]

That is precisely the contradiction of democratic socialism as a whole. If we need government to make our decisions for us, what makes us qualified to vote for our government?

[@jeremiahsams2848]

@@matthewrichardson828 you're correct. If you let people talk long enough uninterrupted, they will begin to tell the truth.

[@TheReaper569]

"poor suckers in new jersey paid for me going to college" hahahahahaha

[@ralph15085]

NO PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS!!!

[@MrSilverfish12]

Even private sector unions are bad. Look what they did to GM and Chrysler. Ford was lucky to get away from those unions.

[@tomhoss67]

Yes but at least the private sector unions will eventually lead to there own downfall by raising the cost of labor and making their company less competitive until they fail. With public sector unions there is less of a limit to salary demands when the tax payers pick up the tab.

[@YouGotOptions2]

Especially POLICE UNIONS

[@LolLol-zr9jc]

But private sector unions have to be careful or the company may go bankrupt and they would lose there job. Public sector unions don’t have that problem

[@scottm8579]

39:20 "We're not talking about the problems of your children." I find that to be a very ironic telling statement that's the central problem. And Milton immediately pounces on it too.

[@noahbaihly7397]

We need more educational videos like this around.

[@torkennethhagen]

I would not consider myself a follower of Milton's economic theories but i always enjoy watching him presenting his views and using his knowlegde to teach people about the free market. As someone who like to study political science and economics, Milton Friedman is a Necessity if you want to study the theories of economics.

[@LittleHatori]

" *THIRTY-FIVR DOLLARS A LECTURE.* " 😂😂😂😭💀

[@Cacacos]

"Hello, I'm Robert McKEEEENNNzie" :D

[@CPez]

I THINK THIS EEEEEVERY TIME!

[@mattgraham8868]

Don't you just love the studio set up, its very non confrontational and allows for a great debate

[@ishitrealbad3039]

55:20 what he is saying is that they know they'll loose in a competitive market, and thus they're against it.

[@Knightsoferebus]

I come from a very liberal state I should this to my brother and said I agree with what Milton Friedman said he hasn't spoken to me since.

[@saturnguytwelvesg127]

Homeschooling our children was in the top three best decisions I have ever made.

[@LittleHatori]

I cant believe that's even a defense, "parents know" The CHILD IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENT. PERIOD.

[@davo171]

Im glad you see it this way, it is important.

[@Galgus2000]

Incredible how much some people fear competition, and how little faith they have in the people they want to manage.

[@thegreatonecometh200]

give an example of any school system anywhere in the world that works like milton and you wish we had !

[@fyyl1p]

@@thegreatonecometh200 Sweden.

[@Idalych]

In my state we have a thriving K-12 private school that exclusively teaches children with learning disabilities. In recent years, these schools have actually been subject to competition from new special needs private schools popping up! So spare me the crap about “left behind children”...

[@JonathanG94]

The good news is since some 30 years after this documentary the school choice revolution has dramatically expanded and is succeeding big time.

[@MrSilverfish12]

+Freemind Its awful here in New Zealand. They also have zoning rules meaning if you live in a shit neigbourhood you go to a shit school!

[@JonathanG94]

***** Oh there's cases like that in inner-cities like New York or Chicago where teachers' unions rule big.

[@thegreatonecometh200]

the private schools are winning ? i dont know what rock youve been under ! but last i saw the private schools were pumping up grades and they dont have anyone to answer to if they just pass your child along so that they can say we produce the best students so that they can charge more money ! just like the colleges are a racket since theyve been letting right wingers implement schools that arent accredited suckering people out of there money ! like the university of phoenix ! didnt they investigate a bunch of the private testing companies and schools and the people they pay to grade tests said that they didnt grade by merritt they graded by what made the test company and schools look good ! thats what the free market produce ! a bunch of scammers !

[@70matusz]

I love the New York accent of the teacher at 8:35 when she says "order"

[@amaxamon]

Wow. Milton Friedman was basically Hari Seldon. He was decades ahead of the curve.

[@russellschaeffler]

Interesting at 6:00 mins the class is about Edward De Bono's six hats method of problems solving. There are many videos on youtube about the six hats method if you do a search. Edward De Bono Six Hats

[@gabrielenriquemartinez]

Amazing panel discussion! All agree that education is hard and that inner-city/poor area schools underperform. However, the response from the bureaucrats is a version of "we need more of it/we didn't do enough" (as always), rather than humbly allowing for a different approach, even if they disagree with it! Nothing has changed!

[@9avedon]

Thanks for this gold nugget !. I have to check this out.

[@warlord8954]

They stacked the deck against Dr. Friedman in this episode, and he rebutted them time and again. Even thought they weren't willing to listen, nor hear.

[@jeankouya]

Milton you are the best!

[@DrCruel]

I'm glad that you concede that a school choice system that empowers parents is superior to one that is dictated by vested union interests. You've made great progress. Well done. Again I remind that school choice is the key issue. I've stated this from the very beginning. Parents should decide whether schools ultimately succeed or fail economically, and full public funding for all private schools is a good idea too. I'm glad the Finns do it.

[@SalsaTangoCracow]

FANTASTIC ..........POLAND..........

[@MajorTomBarb]

25 years later, the bureaucrats aren't satisfied that the parents know how to feed their kids either.

[@debblouin]

Mainstreaming of public schools, the mandate to integrate developmentally disabled or delayed students and those with emotional or psychological problems, needs to end. All non-educative expenditures needs to end. No more spending on sociological surveys, programs, etc. Budgets should allocate monies to classrooms first, manpower and materials; no teacher should EVER feel compelled, by necessity due to lack of funds, to purchase materials for their classes. One of the gentlemen cited the federal mandates, like bi-lingual education, which public schools must follow, from which private schools are exempt, as reasons public schools lag behind. Ok, so get rid of them! Consider this scenario: a voucher system begins in a school district and parents begin choosing their schools. Demand for certain schools os high. Other schools find their numbers plummeting. Those failing schools might very well close. OR they might be reimagined! One school which used to be a generic elementary school gets transformed into a school for special-needs students, whose voucher dollars follow them. Another school might become a magnate school for ESL students who would learn core curriculum in their first langauge and then have intensive English language instruction through fifth grade or until fluency os achieved. Another school might flourish by focusing on remediation and learning disabilities, while another might flourish as a gifted program. Eliminate school year testing. Have an entrance exam, prior to the start of the school year, and an exit exam following the final day of instruction. And, finally, intramural sports and music and the arts are special cases and should perhaps be treated as such beyond a basic introduction to the genres, and should be funded by PTAs, and school-business partnerships, rather than by public tax dollars.

[@Jonedcc]

27:00 anyone else like how Milton drops the mic?

[@RosarioXPS]

It is in my self interest because i think free trade will benefit myself by allowing me to purchase whatever i want to purchase from whomever i want to purchase from. I think the increase in individual freedom will also benefit the masses to a far greater degree than protectionism.

[@RosarioXPS]

Self interest is not purely an economic theory. Its the motivation that drives all our activities, whether it be economic or political. Political self interest is no different from any other form of self interest. There may be different objectives involved, but at the end of the day we always follow our self interest. Even to the extent of charity, you would not donate to those in distress if you did not believe it benefited you in some moral or ethical aspect.

[@RosarioXPS]

Although i am by no means an expert on American history, i do believe the Gilded age was a period of great economic growth and technological innovation, and also a period of economic freedom, which occurred a century before the 1970s.

[@ThePocketbass]

What's sad is that 33 years after these videos were made our government is more entrenched than ever.

[@TheBlackComedy]

I myself am a part of a family of eight and we live on social security. I've just turned 17 and I'm debating with my father who has a M.B.A on financial - and managerial economics. For a while now I've been an advocate for laissez-faire capitalism and I want to study economics at University of Chicago. I know were you are coming from and best of luck with your studies.

[@diarturkmani]

hey! did you end up going to Chicago?

[@ghollisjr]

54:40 The guy arguing about the Alum Rock results just made Milton's point for him. If you allowed students to go to different schools, but only had a fixed number of schools and presumably kept the same number of students in each school, then the result that overall averages remained the same is consistent with the schools being the problem. If a real voucher system were in place, the number of schools would not be fixed, and neither would the number of students at each school. Private schools which performed badly would fail, public schools defunded according to the low numbers of students in attendance, and new schools could be opened and compete with the existing ones. Thus, bad schools would be weeded out and good schools would raise the average grades. It's ridiculous how entitled these education bureaucrats are. Good teachers will do in a voucher system, bad teachers will do badly, and corrupt bureaucrats will be ousted from their penthouses as their schools are finally shut down as the failures they are. If they had nothing to do with the problems, then they can go back into the job market just like all the rest of us instead of being on the damn dole.

[@thegreatonecometh200]

and didnt you hear him call milton out on it showing that after they got all the data back it was practically no difference in their education ? or did you ignore when milt gets his ass handed to him?

[@DrCruel]

I understand the issue very well, both from attending a college that trains teachers as well as from being a tutor for three decades, and from personally experiencing much of what I talk about myself. I have attended both private and public schools, and have seen the difference between the two. Again I remind you that your assertion on lower pay implying poor quality is simply wrong, but immaterial. The issue is the unjustifiable unfairness of taking school choice out of the hands of parents.

[@stephenabm7779]

100% accurate.

[@Vodoune]

As a TRUE Free Market Economist (a.k.a. Anarchist) I don't believe in schools, jobs, or families - I believe the world must view itself as one and aspire to achieve a unified goal; in such a respect, individuality can be defined only by ones associations to the world around him.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

I see a lot has changed since Mr. Friedman made this film. I think the biggest problem is what the state directed schools teach. The universities only teach collectivism, (not individualism as our nation was founded), and have for decades. may Ivy league school have huge million and billion dollar endowments, that are mostly foreign interest money to teach foreign interest. Those endowments are not even taxed, but horded by the schools. (from the best of my knowledge). Now, the force "common core" and not too many parents like it. The teachers say it is good to have "state standards", but the fact is, state standards have little to nothing to do with private industry standards or entrepreneur standards.

[@RosarioXPS]

I misspoke, i did not mean to say "selfish", although i must confess that as a human being, i am. There is a fundamental difference between greed, selfishness and self interest. Self interest is the pursuit of what we as individuals value. Greed and selfishness has negative overtones, and in the modern day is not the same as self interest.

[@JoseGarcia-vi3pu]

Friedman: if you're schools are as good as you say they they are lets them complete. Really that is all that needs to be said for this Debate.

[@daviddiaz529]

Milton is battling these bosses like IP Man/Ung Bak

[@EastsidEaz87]

No one else got pissed at the guy around the 14:00 mark? Schools aren't meant for TEACHERS to teach kids what TEACHERS think is important. They are meant to teach facts and reason. They are mean to teach you how to think, not what to think. As Thomas Sowell said, "the problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is Johnny don't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feelings."

[@DrCruel]

The difference, from my experience and from talking to teachers from both institutions, is where each respective school has at its greatest priority. In the private school, which has a very good reputation and needs to maintain it to survive, they stress student performance and school infrastructure - books, science supplies, so on. Teachers also have more leeway to design their own curriculum at the private school. The public school, by contrast, stresses teacher pay and benefits.

[@Earthbjorn]

I really like your point. If there are indeed difficult children who need extra attention, it would be best to have a school that specializes in difficult children. Our district had what we called an "alternative center" to where the schools would send problem students that misbehaved. So even the public schools send problem children away. These special education schools can then get special funding for the special needs children.

[@RosarioXPS]

Whether i am patriotic or not does not alter the results. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson. Now i wouldn't go so far as to say that you were a scoundrel, you only hold the views you hold because you truly believe that is in your own self interest, but why should you stop others from pursuing theirs?. It is important to make the distinction between YOUR self interest, and the interest of the NATION as a whole, after all you live in a democracy not a dictatorship.

[@MrApplewine]

The teacher sounds like Janine from Ghost Busters.

[@dovahkiin516]

I get what you are saying, and to a large extent the competition of free market is suppose to come up with innovation which drives the best outcome. My argument is that we have proof that the gov't can be the best education out there. So, I say what's the point of choosing between private schools through vouchers if gov't schools can be the best. I get private schools get results but govt schools also get results. That's why I say the best solution can be either way, but gov't doesn't exclude

[@michalkononenko9833]

Gregory Anrig is a pretty decent opponent to Milton Friedman, and his criticisms of the voucher system are quite justified. What is interesting to note though, perhaps as a consequence of the debate format, is that there are no alternative plans given real discourse about alternative plans to the voucher system. Nevertheless, great debate. I wish we had more discourse like this today. I have a brother who's 9, and I'm going to Uni next year, so take it from me, this talk is massively important.

[@RosarioXPS]

I think its important to put things into perspective. During the 19th century, tariffs were a main source of government income. In 1890, 57% of the federal budget was composed of tariff revenue. However, if you look at government spending, you see a very different story. During that period, government spending accounted for around 5% of national income, today its somewhere around 40% i believe. I don't think there is any argument that it was a much more free economy than we have today.

[@DnC2005]

Very true, tekproxy, political and economical debates these days are not based on the points you make; rather, they are based on who has the bigger vocabulary. The arguments made by Friedman's opposition are based on feelings not fact. Also, i love how he points out how Stats are guilty of obfuscation. Milton left us will his protege, Thomas Sowell, i just Thomas leaves us with someone after he is gone.

[@Limestarz]

If you buy into the private market theory of choice=competition=innovation=cheaper cost I would point out that the private market always creates cost-quality products. Meaning that you always have luxury products, normal, and generic. The rich can afford luxury, middle class affords normal, etc. That's how I see private education shaking out. Yes, cost may decrease overall compared to gov't schools, but you will still have a stratification of classes regardless.

[@Limestarz]

We are making head way in a real conversation. What dovah pointed out in his comments is, what's the point of getting competition, or as you put it "choice" to get the best education. If I just improve gov't schools to get the same results what's the difference? Dovah agrees with you that private competition can work, but the way he sees it is two roads that both work that go to the same goal. He thinks one road will have some exclusion for the best schools, while the other road can't exclude

[@eorobinson3]

Public Choice Theory would end much of the debate against Friedman’s competitive insurgency. Those individuals who support the educational status quo have, as Milton points out, a “vested interest,” where they function as institutional business operators whose livelihood depends upon their propping up of a system that rewards a static as opposed to dynamic template of instruction...institutional analysis is so instructive here when it comes to Public Education.

[@Vodoune]

That is a crutch that will ultimately lead to those people becoming dependent on social services.

[@DrCruel]

I am making an analogy between choice in leadership, choice in eateries, and choice in elementary and secondary public school education. The comparison is entirely valid, with the common denominator to all of these cases being "choice". I could as well remark on personal choice for the source of medical and dental care that people get. In all these other cases, the public is allowed to choose and is better off for it. How thus can a singular lack of choice in this one sector be justified?

[@bsabruzzo]

@Earthbjorn "If there are indeed difficult children who need extra attention, it would be best to have a school that specializes in difficult children" Right. If the children have learning disabilities, they need more intense attention. And, as shown by Friedman, a school for "bad students" isn't a prison full of criminals. It offers different teaching methods which improve the students grades and give them a better chance after graduation.

[@MorrisonMichael]

Milton intellectually slaps the shit out of people.

[@coleman2586]

Gotta love socialized education.

[@arpoky]

48:24 This gentleman's proposal is rather interesting. Treat school payments as royalty payments. Of course, this would only work for certain fields, since we all know that gender studies is a worthless degree. If someone goes into business, or into a STEM field, and they become wealthy, then a percentage of their paycheck goes back to the school they got their degree from, similar to how a record label pays royalties to a band for every album sold. I believe a university should try this out for a year and see how it works out.

[@ubustang]

That is probably an unwarranted concern; the worst schools would close, but this is hardly worse than confining people to certain failure. People have the choice to leave or not, and would have considerably enhanced bargaining leverage with the teachers and schools. Nobody is going to disrupt their child's education unduly, you can trust that. Nothing would change where results are positive, and of course regulations regarding class size and teacher qualifications would be necessary.

[@Earthbjorn]

@bsabruzzo agreed. I currently have a 3 yr old and I am so nervous about choosing a school for her. My experiences with public schools were average at best. I was lucky to go to the only "Exemplary" rated public elementary in my district, but was forced to go to an "Acceptable" Junior High and High school.

[@TheWindshopfurn]

well said..

[@dragoonsunite]

I still understand what your saying, what I'm saying is I'm willing to compromise and allow vouchers to be used for the private teaching of WHATEVER the school wants to teach... I'm making an optimistic assumption that very few private schools will survive that don't provide reasonable education and that even though the federal government wont regulate what can be taught in schools with our tax money, that the states might. But it will allow for diversity so we can find the best solution.

[@RosarioXPS]

Also, the US debt is in large part due to government spending. Secondly, investors dont "sit on" their wealth, they are likely to reinvest their profits back into the US economy. The reason that they may "move it off shore" is because the high income tax makes it profitable to spend some money on unproductive activities such as sheltering their wealth.

[@DrCruel]

Again, there are many elements of competition and choice as exercised by our military system. The US government might retain ultimate authority over the use of military force, but who provides it (as volunteer soldiers, rather than untrained conscripts) is an important and successful element of choice in our military today. And we happen to have five different militaries at the moment. They're quite competitive over military resources, as I'm sure you are certainly aware.

[@jpguthrie6669]

I was surprised at the school system when I moved to Japan. In Japan public school teachers work longer hours and more days than teachers in America. Japanese teachers do not get a summer holiday, they must come to work every day even though the students are away. Teachers in Japan are paid less than American teachers, and Japanese teachers get the same pension and healthcare insurance that any other worker gets. Yet Japanese students score far higher on standardized tests, and the dropout rate is a fraction of the rate in America. But Japanese teachers are not unionized as American teachers are. A union does exist for Japanese teachers in Japan, but it does not exist to constantly lobby for better pay for lower performance, only to make sure that the districts are following national employment laws. In Japan public education costs a fraction of what it does in America, yet Japan gets far better results for its money. Schools in Japan are competitive, you can to go any public school you like, so long as you pass the entrance standards. Private schools have even higher standards, but are subsidized enough that even people who are not well off can afford to send their kids to the top private school, provided their kids can get accepted. America's schools are a disaster, but then any time you allow government workers to unionize, they put their own wants ahead of the taxpayers.

[@LittleHatori]

I think that Japanese culture also has a strong moral penchant towards hardworking and tenacity. I believe Thomas Sowell calls such behaviors "human capital" Plus those cute sailor uniforms make u excited for attending school as well!

[@classiclibertarian]

A lot of this stuff is still true today. One of thing things that is often ignored by both sides of this argument is that area affluence can directly influence test scores through ability to hire tutors. That is often why suburbs do better than the inner-city. Union arguments are meaningless. Getting the market involved in education and/or using a voucher system can and does improve educational quality and lessen the need for private tutors.

[@DrCruel]

My quote on the education system in Finland is from Dr. Piia Hirvenoja, a professor in the Department of Education at the University of Turku. I do not think he is wrong. My quotes regarding the differential between private and public school teacher pay is from Kara Page, quoting from Payscale.com, and from Melissa Kelly, a teacher with 15 years of experience and an M.Ed in Instruction and Curriculum from the University of Florida. I do not think they are wrong either.

[@malthus101]

And look at what concerns Dartmouth now: "Dartmouth does well in two new rankings: One for being among the nation’s 50 most LGBT-friendly institutions of higher education, and one for being among the top 10 private four-year colleges with the best six-year and three-year graduation rates in 2012.“More than ever colleges today want to be viewed as LGBT-friendly and a welcoming place for all students. LGBT students and their safety impact the recruitment efforts of the entire campus,” Campus Pride Executive Director Shane L. Windmeyer tells LGBTQ Nation"

[@0HippyHunter0]

"Establishing a premise is the beginning of every debate" does not equate to "every statement is the beginning of an argument." Other than that I think we're good here.

[@warlord8954]

Everything Dr. Friedman said has come to pass. The public education system has failed. The bar is far lower now than when I was in school, and children are now not educated.

[@Horsewithnoname88]

23 years later... with the current test scores and additonal spending I wonder how this debate would go now

[@bobholly3843]

"School is not representative of the marketplace" Um, you are training workers & training ppl to have the skills to compete in the marketplace. It is not the only reason schools are there but it's one of the primary reasons. Schools are the very beginning of job training.

[@SuperGregoryRoss]

Even when a lottery is used (which eliminates the choosing of the "cream" as discussed by several people) it is fought. When success is shown, it is fought. That leaves one reason why it is fought - self-interest (of the teacher's unions) and protectionism. If the schools are so great, why can they not beat the lottery-based voucher systems?

[@iu9142]

I love how time proved them wrong to an extent. There are now charter school that use the lottery system to select children. Some poor, some middle class and they all have the best school in every metric compared to their public counter parts( in New York).

[@bmg0079]

That headmaster from England was classic. He basically said that he knows better than the parent, and if the parent is unhappy, too bad. He's doing this in their "best interest". What an arrogant person.

[@057wolf]

Welcome back to another episode of Milton Friedman vs. the Control Freaks!

[@ohiomom100]

The quality of the school reflects the quality of the student population. If you can exclude the riff raff the quality will obviously improve. Top colleges are top colleges because the exclude the losers, not because the parents have choice. Same with public and private schools. Vouchers will allow parents to exclude the riff raff, which is certainly in their immediate self interest. Whether it is good for society to concentrate the high achievers and write off the low achievers is open to debate,

[@benjaminnivison5229]

I would have liked to see thomas Sowell in this discussion

[@MRKetter81]

All such systems fall apart, because they're dependent upon a select few (elected or not). A competitive system allows you to vote with your money(or voucher), and that will inevitably lead to some school eventually confronting the things you're concerned about; lest they lose money(vouchers).

[@thomaspaine374]

Dr. Friedman was a genius and I wish he were alive and spry today, but he doesn't strike to the heart of the problem. No matter how much money government leftists take from the taxpayer to waste on the inner city school system, the problem is directly attributable to terrible parenting and broken families. It was true 40 years ago and it is true today. Unless inner city families stick together (fathers in the home) and commit to a familial priority on education, the cycle of juvenile delinquents/criminals destroying inner city education will continue in perpetuity.

[@VassiliZaitsev12]

As a consumer of education your goal is the best quality of education. Choice then is only important if it is the only way to the best quality. Choice = quality education, also Gov't = quality education. You see how all of you are arguing the same thing here? Once you and the other people concede that both sides are right, then you can have the real conversation. IF both systems can provide the best education, what system is the cheapest? Probably "Choice".

[@bernlin2000]

30:25 What these administrators seem to forget is that this regulations holding back government-run schools are EXACTLY why they are non-competitive with private schools. The problem isn't that government schools are more "accepting", it's that they accept everyone...but with tons of strings attached that prevent teachers from doing their job (expanding children's minds). It's the perfect example of big government getting in the way of "the people's" work, which is to teach. T his is not, as one commenter said in an early segment, the primary place that children learn about "American values": those are taught at home and in our day-to-day lives (as Friedman points out). Our schools are for teaching children how to think critically and openly: that requires no dogma on "American exceptionalism", which is self-evident from observation (i.e. it should not be "indoctrinated") 31:25 Another example of why free markets work and government fails: this administrator can't fathom the idea that "one-room schoolhouses" could make a return. They most certainly can...with privatized education. If parents have a great interest in that method of schooling, then the free market would make it work, if there was profit to be made (which likely would be the case, since such a setup could lend it self to simplification of expenses). The fact that he can't imagine such a school existing against only symbolizes the lack of imagination and innovation that exists in the minds of typical government administrations...it destroys our children's ability to learn well

[@serfcity1]

Just so we are clear: The premise of the argument and the conversation in the video is not substitute and eliminate public schools because public schools by their nature of being state entities automatically makes them failures. Nobody is making the argument to eliminate state schools; the argument is to end the state monopoly and introduce choice as a way to make state schools better through competition and making the system freer and diverse instead of one size fits all.