Comparing Kel Kroydon and Gibson Guitars from 1930, with Mark Stutman

[@johnthomasguitar]

Mark, you are by far and without question the world's expert on vintage guitars. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Maybe a bit of hyperbole going on there, John, but what the heck... Thanks!

[@johnthomasguitar]

@@TheFolkwayMusic No hyperbole, my friend!

[@VanInhalin]

one of the only things I miss from lockdown was marks frequent vids like this

[@lilysboss]

Mark - thank you for this. Still watch your site every week even from far away Santa Barbara. Still own (and play) the Zeidler I bought when last up your way!

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Right on! That guitar was/is exceptional!

[@diannefleming1619]

First time at your KZbin site. As a beginning repairman, I'm super inspired to do repairs with the integrity they deserve.. Thanks for the history of these wonderful guitars.

[@JoshYenne]

I've got both a 30 Kel and 30 Gibson! SO COOL!

[@PaisleyPatchouli]

Wow, that Bauer is a canon! I have a couple of Collings/Waterloo Kels, and also a '33 Kalamazoo KG-11 that has the solid binding (non-kerfing) and the tiny burst; it's almost all black. I really love these lightly built 00 size guitars. Thanks for all the interesting insights into their construction and build variations.

[@brownmonkeybananayellow]

I never thought about the nut width and mass. Amazing video!

[@cherrypickerguitars]

I’ve always equipped my acoustic builds with substantial nuts - next build will use a small, thin nut! I’m building de Jonge standard steel strings, so I’m very interested in what the nut will do to two, as close the identical, guitars, as I can build! Cheers

[@GIBKEL]

I’ve got a parrot Kel, double bound and super thin fingerboard. Shallow small neck, small belly, small collapse that hasn’t moved in the 17 years I’ve owned it. I’ve contemplated sending it your way but it’s still working great. I run 10’s on it just for safety. Love it! Can’t see the number though I’ve thought of putting the neck block pic through different filters so I can nail it down. Always appreciate your 30’s Gibson takes as I find them to be such special unique guitars. My early 34’ L00 is another gem.

[@etoirelav]

Love these videos Mark.

[@tomehCanada]

Very cool Mark. It makes a lot of sense to anyone who has been around "production assembly" and manufacturing. You always line up/schedule everything that you can group together efficiently and concentrate everyone at every step on their specific job (consistency). The very basic theory is that consistent parts and work procedures equals a consistent product. Henry Ford time.

[@op8388]

Fantastic insights as always! Looking forward to hearing the soon-to-be-finished Kel.

[@DeltaBlues61]

Awesome video. I appreciate Mark’s depth of knowledge and experience. The philosophy of tone runs deep in this video. Guitar geeking at its best (I say this from a place of deep respect)! Many thanks!

[@pascalgalipeau1796]

Thanks for sharing! Super interesting.

[@jez6345789]

As always interesting and informative. thanks

[@photobbanks]

I appreciate your knowledge/artful expertise!

[@pawlowski6132]

Wow. Awesome guitars.one of these days I’m coming from Detroit to visit

[@mitchkatz5848]

Great video! Thanks for the education Mark!

[@Richard_Lush]

I’ve got a 1930 L-1 but the serial number is gone. It’s so light. My luthier commented on how light it was. It sings 😍

[@dalepettit1045]

Very interesting Mark. Will a Gibson made S.S. Stewart have an order number printed somewhere inside?

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

They will, yes. The SS Stewart FONs fall in line with all the others.

[@graemeyallop270]

I should bring my Kel Kroydon in for you to look at. It's my dad's old guitar. It definitely had the wrong strings on it for a while because it's begun to sink. I put lighter strings on it and it still plays and sounds great. I think that it's the original case as well.

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Please do!

[@cherrypickerguitars]

Mark is an incredible wealth of knowledge. Knowledge he has gained from having these guitars in hand. Mark was the person who steered me towards Sergei de Jonge’s guitar building course, about 12 years ago, now! Changed my entire guitar world/life! Thank you Mark!

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

So amazing to hear this. It was Grit Laskin who did the same for me in 1996. High fives!

[@cherrypickerguitars]

@@TheFolkwayMusic Cheers Mark! I was in Folkways having you look at a 1920’s Martin tenor banjo, when you suggested that Sergei should be my next step as I’d just completed Mike McConville’s two guitar repair courses thru Conestoga College. That 6 weeks in Quebec changed my world! Best guitar career advice I ever was given! I was in London then. Now my “shingle” is hanging in Lake Country BC (between Kelowna and Vernon) Peace

[@steevo124]

Great video. Thanks for the education Mark. According to an old listing of yours, my 1930 L-2 is among one of the most lightly built with its original bridge plate measuring 0.040”. FON 9572. Also, you’re 100% correct about neck mass. My 1943 maple Vrod (no truss rod) Banner J-45 sounds way different (better imo) than my 45 banner with truss rod. Both have huge necks with the 45 having the biggest neck anyone has ever seen on a banner. Both are 3 piece maple with walnut center strip.

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Thanks, Steve. Your 9572 is an early one. I’d love to take a look inside that guitar again. It’s been at least 15 years since I’ve seen it. Many from that FON range have a combination of features - early and late.

[@steevo124]

@@TheFolkwayMusic I’ll have to again schedule a trip up to you, with Covid having ruined my original plans to come see you.

[@firecrackerheart]

excellent comparison on some gorgeous vintage gibsons. say, can you tell me how you differentiate between sitka/red spruce, vintage or new build?

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Hard to call it. It's esoteric, in all honesty. The build has to be light enough to be able to differentiate the spruce species. If a guitar is braced to heavily you'll be hard pressed to hear that level of tonal difference.

[@pcbif]

Thanks mark, that was super interesting!

[@tomehCanada]

A comment on "this guitar suits flatpicking versus...". I love your explanation of how the neck changes affect the balance and fabulous insights into all of these instruments that come through your knowledgeable observations. I was also just thinking about how the player effectively uses the character of the guitar. For example Tony Rice using "the antique" (that anyone else who tried it said it was a bear) on the acoustic jazz of the David Grisman quintet and the same guitar on fiddle tunes or in bluegrass groups. A great player can listen to the sound he is getting and adjust his/her own playing to use the beautiful, infinite possibilities. And I don't know if you agree or not but I believe the experience of recording an instrument places it "under the microscope" and allows the player an even more detailed appreciation of it's sound and character? Keep them coming. I love your insights.

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Lots of good insights there, Tom. Totally on the same page about the artist/instrument relationship. Thanks for the comments

[@chrishartz2397]

Great video..like all your videos..

[@kmgreensman]

I like the Bauer better! Both sound great but the Bauer just is the tone that I like.

[@michaelkienhofer6394]

Awesome!

[@DB-rr1eo]

I loved it .... thank you

[@walterw2]

so awesome how were those non-truss rod necks reinforced?

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

They weren’t. Which is why the thin fingerboard guitars can have real issues with excessive relief.

[@jeffrivera887]

Guitar nerd heaven, thanks Mark.

[@Onionbaron]

@TheFolkwayMusic Do you have any knowledge of brand called LYRA?

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Seen that headstock, but no, no real knowledge to share.

[@Smitoons]

The one I’ve seen was a Harmony dreadnought 1260 body and neck, but with Lyra on the headstock. Otherwise identical. But I’ve only seen the one.

[@darrylwolfe7114]

Mark, Maybe this Bauer name is associated with Walter Kaye Bauer who was a prominent Gibson dealer/endorser much later than the other Bauer. Bauer, Walter Kaye 21.may.1899-18.jan.1997 USA Connecticut, Hartford - New Jersey, Piscataway banjoist, mandolinist, guitarist, arranger, 1911-1925 studied mandolin with Annie K Pfund, Zarh M Bickford and Samuel Siegal, 1917 banjo with Annie K Pfund and 1922 with Frederick J Bacon, 1917-1925 guitar with Annie K Pfund and William Foden, viola with Herman Beacheman, piano with Lesser, 1921-1928 theory and harmony with Robert H Prutting, 1923-1995 teacher fretted instruments at his private studios in Hartford, 1950 at 926 Main Street while residing at 20 Rodney Street, 1929-1933 editor for Crescendo magazine, 1936 commandant of the Connecticut Nautical Cadets, 1952-1995 formed and directed the 70 member Bauer Banjo Band, member of the American Banjo Fraternity, president of the Fretted Instrument Guild of America and the Classical Mandolin Society of America ; son of hotel cook John Mathew Bauer (Germany mar.1862-) and Margeretta Yorgensen (Germany apr.1869-) ; 7.sep.1929 he married musician Helen Stanton Seely (New York 18.nov.1904-5.jul.1992 Hartford) ; daughters Beverly (1932-) and Linda (1939-) were both accomplished players of fretted

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Interesting! Thanks for the added info. The ‘Bauer’ logo is hand-lettered (not stencilled or screened) so I’d imagine they couldn’t have made many of these.

[@RedLittleBee]

Very fine, thank you Mark 😮🤗🔥 When creating a vid about the KEL (or other old girls) I really would love to hear some dirty fingerpicked Delta Blues (Tom Feldman like) on the one hand. On the other hand I would like to hear fine fingerstyle (Tommy E. like). This would be a dream Video ❤

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

I hear you! My lefty-on-a-righty-guitar playing skills are really limited. We'll try to get the right-handed players on staff to upload a few demo vids of these to our channel.

[@RedLittleBee]

@@TheFolkwayMusic Thank you kindly Mark 🤗👍👍

[@JoshYenne]

Wow.. Sitka! Weird!

[@CNFir-fs6zs]

Play the guitars!

[@TheFolkwayMusic]

Wish I could. Being left-handed makes the playing parts of these videos pretty lack-luster, so I keep it to a minimum, sorry.