Comparison: Tube Rectifier Shootout (5U4GB, GZ34, 5R4GY, 5Y3S)

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A nice look at my descent into tube rolling madness.
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[@aornic]

0:00 Intro 1:03 JJ Electronics 5Y3S (Stock IHA-1) 3:24 Electro-Harmonix 5U4GB 5:44 RCA 5U4GB 8:55 Mullard GZ34/5AR4 Re-issue - Made in Russia 11:45 Telefunken GZ34/5AR4 - f32 - Made in Germany 14:00 Westinghouse 5U4GB 16:14 Brimar 5R4GY 19:48 RCA 5R4GY 21:02 Favourite tubes & conclusion

[@peterbalazsy8263]

I think you are nuts. If you believe a rectifier can actually change audio tones please supply the scientifically supported technical and solid electronic reasoning and proof. Here's what real people think: www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=343062&p=2878853#p2878853

[@LeonFleisherFan]

@@peterbalazsy8263 I was invited to a tube rolling weekend with fellow audiophiles once where I expected/was told it would be about output tubes, but then, people showed up with rectifiers as well, and we never quite got to the output tubes. The reason was that we quickly wanted to pick a suitable rectifier and be done with it. They all sounded different. I was flabbergasted, and kind of glad at the time I didn't own a tube amp (with the exception of a headphone amp that doesn't require a tube rectifier). We also had a diode rectifier at hand which made any amp and/or DHT DACs sound fairly awful. I'm a tech-minded person myself and remember, on the way back home, saying to myself, how completely insane tubes are for audiophiles who are even remotely OCD - an endless journey and/or search for the Holy Grail which, in reality, will always only remain a matter of taste. As a (mainly) transistor gear oriented audiophile, I remember asking myself which sounded "right", and how obvious it was the question would be impossible to answer. So unless you listen and form your own opinion, please refrain from scoffing at people who do. Yes, rectifiers are supposed to not make a difference. I don't think there was a single person there who hadn't heard that before. I'll say that unless one were stone-deaf, it'll be impossible to defend this position. And frankly, it's unscientific to just be in denial because something can't be (what the flat-earthers said). I'm not claiming to have an explanation, but I surely have enough scientific curiosity to admit it when I don't understand something.

[@peterbalazsy8263]

@@LeonFleisherFan I stand by my request for any shred of evidence. My position is based on the fact that the rectifier is before the DC filtering circuit... and if the filter is sufficient ....then there is no difference from that DC and the DC supplied by a battery. So i defy anyone to listen to ANY audio equipment, and in a blind test, tell me if the sound they hear is fed from a battery supply or a rectified/filtered supply of similar no-ripple quality. If anyone can do that... I'll not only take my hat off to them... but I will eat it too!

[@LeonFleisherFan]

@@peterbalazsy8263 Oh, you'd have to eat it, single or double blind test, no matter, the differences were not only repeatable but such that I was honestly confused. I'm surprised you think there is DC filtering equivalent to the DC supplied by a battery - that's where I'd be tempted to ask for evidence - but that's just an aside. I recommend listening to the difference for yourself - it's frankly impossible for anyone to be in denial to an extent where one wouldn't hear the difference - then figure out the reason yourself. All I know is it doesn't make sense to me it should be so obvious, but I don't have a problem admitting I don't understand everything.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

@@peterbalazsy8263 Needless to say the simple explanation would appear to be differing impedances (voltage drop), but that doesn't appear to be the whole answer.

[@artanderson4103]

After watching your video, as I was beginning to explore tube rolling for my amp, I ordered a pair of used Westinghouse 5U4GB's and it was a nice improvement to the sound. I appreciate the hard work you put into this shootout.

[@matthewmatthew638]

Watching the last few videos consecutively feels like witnessing a man fall into delusional madness

[@aornic]

matthewmatthew638 what?

[@matthewmatthew638]

To placebo purgatory you go....

[@aornic]

matthewmatthew638 first I'm hearing of tubes sounding different being a placebo effect. Stay woke.

[@brianpacheco1927]

What are you talking about? At least with tubes you could ABX test it and hear the differences between all of them because of the physical nature of the tubes.

[@k8jjd]

these are rectifier tubes!

[@SixDasher]

Did you take into account that there is a different voltage drop due to the differing impedances? The 5AR4 can give 30-50V extra output vs a 5Y3 for example, which could mean you are listening to a different bias of your signal tubes and not so much the rectifiers.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

And if indeed this were all there is to it, why would anyone not want to use the one they like? That's the problem: the scientific-minded among us are preoccupied with reasoning (some with denial and an unfortunate lack of scientific curiosity), whereas audiophiles are interested in the result. Your point is well taken, and what you're really saying is that audio is about synergy effects. Anyone find this surprising?

[@davidlong1786]

@@LeonFleisherFan No what he is saying is that if you don't null out measurable differences then the result is a flawed testing and not very scientific at all. "Audiophiles" are the worst in believing foolish pseudo science. That is why they pay thousands for cables that do nothing except make them poorer.

[@roncarter2188]

That has to be one of the most detailed descriptions of each rectifier tube I've ever seen, well put together. I only knew about the 5y3 the least liked of the rectifier tubes and the GZ34 being much better, but the others I really didnt know much of anything about, very nice descriptions of each.

[@jaycharter4345]

Nice info, thanks. Are old vintage tubes sought after? I just wanted to get an idea of how easy or hard it is going to be to sell them.

[@roncarter2188]

These rectifier tubes are described as fine wine and cheeses, what a great video, well done.

[@zitric999]

can you add detailed comparison bet the 5R4 with the 5U4g vs a 274B? thank you

[@Belcanto401]

Thank you for this video. I did not think a rectifier tube would play a part in sound quality until when I started to do some tubes rolling myself. Wow, it was an eye opening moment. I now have the coke bottle smooth black plate RCA 5U4G in my amp. Based on your feedback, I will give Westinghouse 5U4G a try.

[@agius2]

Wait! Which tube are you talking about exactly? The rightmost one? This is the rectifier tube in the IHA-1. They just convert AC to DC. They don't change the sound (unless they aren't a really crappy ones). Or you meant the output (power) tube?

[@aornic]

These are all rectifier tubes and they do change the sound. I tested them all in the IHA-1.

[@moefoe1]

Hi, I have a preamp (2 rectifier tubes and 4 12au7). If using the BRIMAR in the rectifier position do you believe it’s possible to still get the Highs and lows ”back” if pairing the BRIMAR with something like 2 Cifte 12au7 and 2 Radiotechnique 6189/12au7’s which supposedly has more top end and better bass (6189)? I am mostly interested in the Brimar’s because of the separation, air between instruments and holographicness you’re describing, Thanks!! Christian

[@Blueguitar007]

I was hoping to hear some sounds. For everyone complaining, rectumfrier tubes make a LOT of difference because of the voltage and the sag or non sag of hitting them hard.

[@kbkman7742]

I urge people do some real research regarding their specific circuits and the way these tubes actually work. Just because the pins match doesn't mean they're compatible. These don't have a 'sound' like this dude is explaining, "this tube is splashy" that's rubbish. They're a rectifier. What you are doing switching between types is altering the voltage in your circuit which can harm components, other tubes and also alter the bias of the rest of your tubes which would account for different sounds. A 5ar4 for example can put out a heap more voltage than something like a 5y3. They all have different current specs and warmup times. These videos are irresponsibile

[@RulgertGhostalker]

do you realize your messing with your amp's *Power Supply* when you change recto-valve types ? of course a tube amp will sound different at different voltages, and source resistances, but the sound signal does not go through the recto-valve ...

[@tsloth1390]

What the heck is this? Rectifiers do effect the circuit they are put into and thus effect the bias of the amplifier but the rectifier tube does not have a sound in and of itself... They either rectify to DC well or not within the parameters the amp wants to run or not. I really have no idea what you are talking about when you say a rectifier "sounds a certain way" especially without biasing the power tubes to make sure they are operating the way you would like... educate yourself before trying to educate others.

[@AliKiani7887]

thank you for your nice videos... I have one fender super reveb silverface ab763 1969 model...i only use vibrato channel , the clean sound of it is nice and awesome but when i use big muff or fuzz pedals the sound is not good and its harsh...what kind of power and pre amp tubes do you suggest for getting smooth sound when i use big muff snd fuzz ? Consider that My amp is totally restored and i change all the caps with new one but the tubes are old and russian and i didnt change them...rectifier is 5u4 sylvania and power tube are russian Do you thing any modification in the amp circuit will help or not? I will apprecite you if you help me...

[@kubatrolski5450]

I had some weird russian 5Y3GT in my tweed deluxe and the B+1 voltage was over 400Vdc

[@michas7993]

Was it a Sovtek tube? I have it now in the used 5e3 clone I bought recently but I think of swapping it with a good nos rca, sylvania, telefunken or anything similar. Have you noticed any difference besides the voltage change? I heard Sovtek 5y3gt gives the tweed deluxe more clean headroom but also may cause overheating problems (my 5y3 runs really hot after an hour or so of playing). I want my amp to have overdrive breakup at the lowest volume possible so I also think of replacing 12ay7 with 12ax7 in V1 too.

[@kubatrolski5450]

@@michas7993 It was a TAD 5Y3GT but there was some russian writing on the tube. I swapped it for JJ 5Y3 and the voltages are now +/- 5V standard values, also the tone got smoother which is nice. The chassis of my Tweed Deluxe also gets quite hot after playing it on volume above 4 for about 30 minutes, I'm using a TAD 12AY7 in V1 slot. You should look up that video on youtube before buying a Sovtek 5Y3 for your Tweed Deluxe "The SOVTEK 5Y3GT tube rectifier does not operate like a 5Y3". The best choice would probably be a NOS tube like you mentioned. I have a JJ 5Y3 S in my amp, I think it's fine but it won't last as long as NOS tubes would.

[@roncarter2188]

These comparisons made me think of cheese and wine likes and dislikes and comparisons rather than actually tonal and power comparatives.

[@HFTONE]

So who told you that rectifiers affect frequency response? Absolutely no signal in the sound path goes through a rectifier. Sounds like you did alot of experimenting to find out how your signal chain reacts to different voltages.

[@elliotbradley]

I keep thinking it sounds like the guy is eating something while he's talking??

[@aornic]

Absolutely not.

[@brianpacheco1927]

Have you tried the Philips GYS? I've heard it's airier than the Brimar but is similar in detail retrieval, instrument separation, etc. as you described. Also, I think you're right about the 5R4 having better detail retrieval as a characteristic to all the tubes so long as they're not overly colored. I believe this has to do with the least amount of voltage dip of any of the rectifiers you had listed in your review when driven hard. The upper treble and detail is the first thing to go when the tube has to play catch up when getting back up to voltage. This is why I believe the 5R4 is the superior variant of the 5Y3 (the Y3 is common in guitar tube amps).

[@aornic]

I haven't heard it. I was going to buy one but bought a metal base GZ34 instead.

[@brianpacheco1927]

Aren't those going for $300 a pop? What's it sound like? I got an Inspire myself.

[@aornic]

Yeah, quite expensive. I think I got mine for more than that but it was truly NOS. It's my favourite rectifier, and I've written quite a bit about it in my Discord server's impressions channel. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to put it in the actual IHA-1 review once I do it. It has incredible detail retrieval and isn't fatiguing in the treble at all. Compared to the RCA 5R4GY, it has less sparkle but better depth and detail retrieval all around. It's leaner in the bass than the regular black base GZ34 and especially the 5U4GB rectifiers that I've tried - but I still find it a very advantageous tradeoff overall.

[@brianpacheco1927]

I'll have to look into it - that's what I'm looking for right now to compliment my Atticus and to make it more balanced as an overall can. Look forward to seeing your review. The Inspire has totally taken away all my curiosity for a ZDS.

[@aornic]

For the Atticus I quite like leaner, airier tubes. Based on your description, the Philips 5R4 is a good pairing. I would probably also put Sylvania Chrome Top 6SN7s on there too.

[@DIsmayedConfuse]

The placebo effect is strong. Rectifiers convert AC to DC, and, if operating within design parameters, have no effect on sound.

[@lifebreath77]

The ignorance effect is also strong. Different rectifier tubes have different voltage drops, current capabilities and speed of response, etc. They interact with the transformer and rest of the power supply circuit and impact the sound in terms of headroom, sag, compression and how the tubes, especially power tubes, react to the signal. Here's some idiot, Dr. Z, you may want to listen to about tube rectifiers: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKqWeKmGfbiNh7M

[@phillipanderson7398]

I have read that they have and effect on tone.

[@cliffjones7868]

Hearing is subjective, so is opinion to quality, and only a calibrated tube tester is Objective with results, Specific test parameters on controlled conditions need to established for all sellers, and Documentation available to buyers.

[@sachindatir1613]

Ty sir

[@jspinks2388]

it don't matterrr either any of it...I consider that 2 3 phase like almost.....i still thought the diode bridge was awful lol.

[@Gofspar]

toob

[@philshifley4731]

What a load of crap aornic is serving up. Rectifier tubes are nothing more than a couple of diodes in a bottle.

[@ninethirtyone4264]

I absolutely love when people who have no idea what they are talking about are spreading this kind of garbage. Please....I beg you to read at least basics of what a power supply is and how a linear power supply works, this is just pain to watch and is blatantly misleading.

[@doncavey1174]

This is a load of rubbish! It is directed at the audiophools...

[@xavibsa]

Stop moving the tubes in front of the camera! It makes me crazy!!

[@disruptfam]

Ok

[@lilgoldfishjr]

Does Aornic have a cold in this video?? :thonking:

[@aornic]

lilgoldfishjr mayhaps

[@lifebreath77]

Where's the shootout? All I heard was some talking! But thanks. ;)

[@exileexecutus]

lol

[@northox]

All subjective, nothing objective.

[@hpkgindigo6356]

Sorry you don’t o me squat! but Why do all you guys speak so much about irrelevant information get to the point and speak about the sound quality. Thanks and sorry but I had to say it.

[@valvoxvo2755]

nonsense comparison