Composer Reacts to Nevermore - This Godless Endeavor (REACTION & ANALYSIS)

[@goodkingp7925]

What a song, band, and singer. RIP Warrel Dane

[@chancewebb6984]

Warrel Dane was the best singer of a generation. Rip sir.

[@dertodesking.]

Never forget about the drummer.

[@brianwright8135]

@@dertodesking. definitely. Who put out the best albums after they broke up? Arguably Van.

[@SecondSince]

@@dertodesking. To be fair every single person in that band was incredible!

[@frankyeichler3303]

Nevermore: the band that brought my passion for metal to a whole new level that i never knew existed. Will always love their whole discography.

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

These guys were hella underrated. I remember them being pretty big among metalheads when I first discovered them in the early 00's, with Loomis in particular being praised for being among the most promising guitar virtuosos of the time; but then they broke up in '11 and when their singer, Warrel Dane, died in '17 that ended all hopes for a reunion. I still consider Nevermore to be one of the absolute best bands that blended that Queensryche/Fates Warning style of dark, moody, but still melodic prog metal with heavier, thrashier, modern metal elements. This particular track is perhaps their masterpiece, but their entire discography from The Politics of Ecstasy in '96 to their last, The Obsidian Conspiracy in '11, is consistently excellent; it's just a shame they couldn't have stayed around longer as they deserved a much bigger and lasting fanbase. For historical context these guys were close to contemporaneous with Dream Theater. Both bands were very much inspired by the proggier 80s metal (Iron Maiden, Queensryche, Fates Warning) but never got into more extreme metal, so they carried on the older traditions of clean singing while incorporating certain elements of thrash and 90s alternative rock/metal.

[@progperljungman8218]

You're a great analyst Jonathan! I'd be a follower of you own channel 🙂

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

@@progperljungman8218 Thanks for the kind words, but I barely have the time to write the comments I do here!

[@jasonadams2]

I always liked how Nevermore sang on top of guitar riffs that most bands can't even play.

[@xDamageProducer]

Jeff Loomis is a god.

[@elnardowebster2842]

Truly one of a kind, Nevermore one of the GOAT metal bands, criminally underrated

[@DiegoDeschain]

Nevermore is so sick, it's one of the few bands I know that only sounds like themselves. I never heard any other band and went "oh this reminds me of Nevermore", nor have I heard a Nevermore song and went "oh this reminds me of that other band". From Dead Heart in a Dead World up to their last album, I love everything they've done. TGE and TOC are my favorites.

[@kevinkuypers9445]

Try communic, they are influenced by them. Their debut album or the second one are an absolute bliss.

[@progperljungman8218]

Can totally see where you're coming from!

[@randomstuffzofdoom]

Check out Sanctuary - Arise and Purify. Yes I know it´s cheating since it pretty much is Nevermore :p

[@jda1069]

Their album "Dreaming Neon Black" is about going through bereavement/grief, and it's an awesome fit for this singing style. I highly recommend it.

[@MrMorgothBauglir]

Their best album in my opinion!

[@mickjob6155]

Sanctuary s two albums 🤘🏻Jeff Loomis joined just after 🎤🎸🤘🏻

[@kevinkuypers9445]

Masterpiece. Amazing band that has influenced so many musicians, despite never really being incredibly successful in terms of record selling. Would love to see you check our more of their catalogue.

[@blindguardian1979]

great epic song! love the sweeps by Jeff Loomis (who auditioned for Megadeth but the spot went to Marty Friedman)

[@hrblsh]

Always liked these guys. Never got too into them, but they’ve been recommended to me so many times I’ll have to give them another listen.

[@hrblsh]

Just started This Godless Endeavour and I’m finding I know this album! I remember it was on a lot of best of 05 lists and I had this on disc, played it while biking/transit riding. I’m really impressed with this album so far. My Acid Words is very familiar and a very strong track. Some bands who immediately come to mind here are Khemmis, the vocals more so than the music. Also, Symphony X both in singing and music. Then the music really reminds me of early melodic death bands like Dark Tranquility, or Soilwork. In the vocals I hear Mike Patton, not that he was influenced, I don’t know. But especially when he goes raspy. This brings me back.

[@progperljungman8218]

1. Bryan's missing growl 🤣❤ 2. "Older styles of metal, like 90's metal".... You're so young Bryan! 🤣 Oh, wait, let me refrase that: I'm so old!...😳 Anyways, the band is from the 90's 3. Think there's loads for you to enjoy with Nevermore! 4. A truly underrated band (not as in "I like this band and more people should" but like "this music deserves the attention from more peole who "should" like it considering what's more popular but in the same vein") 5. Sadly, the singer Warrel Dane passed in 2017 😔 Very enjoyable reaction and analysis! 😍

[@progperljungman8218]

Ps! "Abandon naive realism" doesn't necessarily refer to realism as naive but might be a call for abandoning the naive kind of realism. Ds!

[@CriticalReactions]

I'm definitely young. The 90s were the time that my age was counted in single digits so it makes sense that feels old for me. I agree with the underrated comment. I don't know how these guys slipped through the cracks when I'd place them in the same realm as Dream Theater -- time period, style, and skill. And good call on the "naive realism" line in the lyrics. That reads a lot clearer than how I understood it.

[@prepasni]

@@CriticalReactions i must add that Nevermore were pioneer in lot of stuff. They were maybe the first major band which used guitars with 7 strings, their live performances are equsit, melodic and acoustic parts are pure magic. Need to try more tracks from Nevermore

[@cgo7395]

Check out Conquering Dystopia. Sort of 'supergroup' with Jeff Loomis on guitar. Instrumental

[@MetalZoned]

Yes!

[@kevinkuypers9445]

Absolutely brilliant!

[@grandarchon6969]

Strongly recommend almost every song on this album, and dead heart in a dead world. If you want to see some great guitar playing check out The River Dragon Has Come or The Psalm of Lydia by Nevermore. For powerful vocals I recommend Without Morals, Medicated Nation or Sentient 6.

[@grandarchon6969]

Also if you want harsh vocals listen to the song born off of this album.

[@BlackDeathThrash]

metalcore? wtf? I have never associated Nevermore with being metalcore in any way whatsoever, not even close, not even as a "bridge". I've been a fan since the time they formed and have seen then live at least 10 times, one of my favorite bands.

[@progperljungman8218]

Ok. Did he have any better points in the analysis though?

[@randomstuffzofdoom]

Ooooh been waiting over a year for this one, such a great song and band!

[@tropiq]

When i first came upon Nevermore i disliked the vocals too, they didn't 'fit' with the music to me until i learned he was a trained opera singer then it clicked and over time i started to appreciate them more and more, now i wouldn't have these tracks any other way, RIP Warrel Dane This is quite possibly their best all-in-one track

[@medim6296]

In my opinion Jeff Loomis if not the greatest, is one of the best guitar players in the world!!! Also the way he structures the songs is absolutely breathtaking and chaotic at times. His sense of rhythm is just very complex and beautiful. I always find his craft very inspiring and out of this world. It’s always good to hear more of his work with Nevermore or even on his crazy solo projects. You can also check out his side project with Keith Merrow (great guitarist and songwriter), Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse’s bassist), and Alex Rüdinger (drummer of The Faceless) called Conquering Dystopia. A very complex and amazing supergroup. They only released one album in 2014, and my ears never get tired of listening to them again and again. A very interesting song that would be nice to analyze from that album is Totalitarian Sphere. I would love to see your take on this track. RIP Warrel Dane

[@dalejohnson2047]

Great band one of the best I ever heard their evolution as a band from record to record made them my favorite band of the era he vocal style changed from the sanctuary days to the Nevermore days

[@MitchInTheBox]

Awesome band, my favorite song from them, the sweeping parts still give me goosebumps. I love Warren's vocals now, but the first time i heard him I was like, wth is this. Thank you Bryan!

[@grandarchon6969]

This band is also commonly referred to as “groove” metal, because of the rhythmic style of the guitar riffs, and is a little reminiscent of Pantera in that way. Jeff writes a lot of guitar riffs over a drum machine, which tends to lead to some of those really cool rhythm guitar parts, and the the drummer would flush out the track in the studio.

[@Silver_Something]

Love it! Thank you for reviewing this song. One of the best albums of 2005…man, what a year for music. B

[@-Heavy-]

Great Job dude!

[@n4rf645]

I'm not saying this is the best song of all time, but if someone came along and told me it was, I wouldn't argue.

[@darrenbooker8144]

The lyrics, if you did this, are the best about Warrel Danes outtakes.. This stuff is personal to Warrel.. I love his dark vocals, nevermore are grown through his lyrics Jeff Loomis is a god guitarist, plays lead for Arch Enemy now. Try, 'Brother' by Warrel, it's you'll figure it out.. 😢 Good stuff🤟🤟 R. I. P Warrel

[@Metalton95]

Best band the metal world (of the 00s) didn’t deserve, when they rather wanted Metalcore, Nu Metal, Emo, Melo-death, Lamb of God, Meshuggah etc. -best lyricist (Warrel Dane is a metaphor god) -best guitarist (Jeff Loomis, who could get away with having Chris Broderick as his rhythm guitarist. Now Michael Amott wastes Loomis as rhythm guitarist in Arch Enemy 🙄) -best album of the 00s (This Godless Endeavor) -prog without being soft (so many kickass riffs)

[@jasonadams2]

Man, that was my fave band at the time. A bit miffed seeing them lumped into metalcore but, they are pretty broad and difficult to pin down

[@cbn6635]

The metalcore reference made me miffed also...

[@progperljungman8218]

Try to see what he said before tgat pinning, that it was strangely familiar and he couldn't really pin them down. Maybe the metal core reference was just because that genre has audible roots in common with Nevermore 😊

[@jasonadams2]

@@progperljungman8218 I mean, it didn't ruin my day and I didn't berate him over it. Felt like pretty soft gripe to me.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@jasonadams2 Sure. Others have been more rough...

[@kevinmadden3396]

Nevermore is awesome. No one did it like Loomis, Dane, and company.

[@Elmothefuzzle]

Nevermore are an absolute gem of a band

[@Moxx3]

One of their best songs, no question. For me, the only song that edges it out of 1st place, is "The Learning", especially the live version from the "Year of the Voyager" concert.

[@sVieira151]

Never been a huge fan of Nevermore, enjoyed some songs here and there, but this song blew me away. It's absolutely bonkers and it just hits so hard musically and thematically

[@robertgarside3827]

Crusher of a closer on a crusher of an album. Got to see these guys with Children of Bodom back when this album came out. Terrible show. Warrel Dane was so piss ass drunk he couldn't even stand. They half assed 3 songs and gave up. Really unfortunate.

[@kevinkuypers9445]

Saw them twice, first time was perfect, second time he couldn't even stand, fell down, forgot to sing etc... Really sad experience, alcohol is one hell of a drug. Rip warrel, he was amazing at his craft!

[@brianwright8135]

Nevermore was, while they lasted, my favourite band. Even in their own time though, especially toward the end, it felt like they were leaving a pretty small footprint. There were a couple of bands from the time that were clearly influenced heavily by them, but since then I don't know what kind of lasting influence they've had.

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

Some lyrical notes: "Naive realism" is actually a philosophical concept that refers to the belief that what we sense is "real" rather than partly being created by our minds. It's also used in psychology to refer to the belief that we are unbiased, rational, etc. while everyone who disagrees with us is not. The "rapping, tapping on my door" is a blatant allusion to Poe's The Raven, the poem that gave Nevermore their name ("Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore.'"). The Biblical event you're thinking of is the rapture, which comes from Paul's first epistle. I know it's a pretty controversial doctrine that isn't all that common in Christianity.

[@grandarchon6969]

Based on your vocal preference, you might want to check out Born, and My Acid Words by them. More aggressive elements. Or Narcosynthesis. Or Inside Four Walls.

[@grandarchon6969]

On your vocal analysis, Warrel was very anti-war (see his album praises to the war machine) and this was written at the height of the Iraq war (watch us destroy ourselves over you). There are a lot of themes in the full album, and the vocals tend to throw them all at you at once in this song, which is the last song on the album, and ties all the themes from other songs together.

[@chrisdepp7665]

The seven tongues of god!

[@progrockplaylists]

man i love proggy arpeggios

[@CriticalReactions]

Right? I don't care the context, they always sound so good.

[@danielkunzmann1587]

that are Jason Becker - Arpegious ;) !!!!!!!!!!!

[@justinvermilyea7640]

Oh hells yeah Brian

[@justinvermilyea7640]

Dude Brian nevermore is the shit warrel Dane is the best vocalist ever from Seattle Washington I'm pretty sure that's where nevermore are from check out dreaming neon black 🤣🖤🤘👿🤘

[@justinvermilyea7640]

Thank you man love you too

[@Jester_Kang]

THE Best Metal band of ALL TIME.

[@thegrimner]

You're wrong, Bryan, this week's theme is not album closers but "Let's get thegrimner to rant about production in the comments". You're more or less 4/4 on that field, and this was actually a band I thought about mentioning in that regard. Their sound is quite massive and it's no wonder their producer, Andy Sneap, was one of the, if not THE most sought after producer for a time in the 2000s. Megadeth, Opeth, Judas Priest, Testament, Kreator, Dream Theater, were all part of his roster. If you're seeing a generally consistent theme in that list of names is that nearly all of these bands are "old guard". Very much old guard, in fact, and he was responsible for a lot of these bands' comeback albums in the latter part of their careers. He also produced the likes of Trivium and Killswitch Engage around this same time period, which might be one of the reasons why you made the metalcore connection. His production is generally quite fitting when it comes to modernising classic heavy metal into the 21st century. ANd that's where Nevermore's place in history fits in. You see, while the underground was generally reaching the peaks of intensity in the 90s and then going off in all sorts of weird directions, so called "traditional" metal was in very bad shape. Just about the only consensual big band from the 90s was Pantera. Everyone else was having a terrible time adapting, whether it's the big 4 of thrash, who all saw their last "classic albums" being released between 89 and 91, or the even older bands like Priest or Maiden who seemed frankly spent creatively. "Traditional" heavy metal had a hard time surviving. Bands like Iced Earth or Blind Guardian managed to keep that classic sound alive, but Nevermore went one further and managed to fuse the 80s to the 2000s. I usually think of their sound as if Meshuggah went power metal with a thrasy attitude. And that kind of is their legacy. While this album and this song is especially used as a showcase of the band's strengths, their sound was already fully developed and matured since the late 90s.

[@MetalZoned]

Andy Sneaps influence cannot be overstated

[@cbn6635]

Their Neil Kernon produced albums sound pretty good too!

[@CriticalReactions]

Dang, tons of info there. So I *knew* that many 90s bands weren't still "big" in the 2000s but I didn't know it; if ya get me. It never dawned on me that it was an adaptation thing, I just figured the audience was dwindling and they were getting older so they stopped -- aside from Metallica doing St Anger which definitely felt like a "hello fellow kids" moment. That makes it even wilder that Nevermore isn't more popular than they are (to piggyback on ProgPer's comment elsewhere that they are underrated). Not only did they survive the tradition but they bridged the two eras rather than fully redeveloped their sound.

[@thegrimner]

@@CriticalReactions Yeah, just for perspective, both Priest and Maiden lost their lead singers during the 90s, Metallica did Load and Reload and were flopping, Megadeth nearly imploded with Risk, and the list goes on. It got weird enough that Kreator did a goth album somewhere down that line. The audience changed kinda dramatically, and for a while there, the only band nearly everyone could agree on was Pantera. But those were tough times for traditional metal.

[@cheekycupcake5616]

Liked his voice, kinda gloomy and theatrical, and maybe it’s the season but made me think of a harder rocking Jack Skellington. Also, think the brain fog term u were searching for was ‘the rapture’(good times💀). Cool react🌿🎃

[@Selkirk69]

Prog, groove, thrash, power, death turning in parts...also, think a little Savatage, Maiden, with the complexity and gloom/anger of nonapologetic modern prog, NOT math metal prog masturbation just to pay homage to the calculator. Check out Van's later group Ghost Ship Octavius esp. their second album Delirium songs Edge of Time and The Maze. If you like that "feel" to the taste of this song, check out Dreaming Neon Black (NM 1999) darker slower but Warrel really pulls from loss and Hell. The bass and drums were purposely set to provide a solid foundation while the lead and singer are the "twin Beacons (ala AllMusic review) Van is a great drummer who never tries to show off but has great layering and ghost/bb notes/galloping bass. Warrel was a 5-octave singer with Serpent's Rise and, of course, Sanctuary. He took 5 years of opera.

[@parasina]

To me, Nevermore always sounded like a heavier, progressive version of power metal. Great reaction, as usual.

[@progperljungman8218]

and more groove and less cheese than power metal 😊

[@leonardogsperin]

Eternal acids words

[@leonardogsperin]

In it's still live

[@hadesdave]

i like some of your thought on this...i truly think the singer is struggling with his own beliefs and is predicting the rapture

[@fooser77]

"struggling with his own beliefs" Okay, this is from their last studio album .. Pay attention to this progression, and respond in kind if you like .. [admission to nihilism] kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6GpmJqhmNyGd8k [admission to believing in ghosts/spirits (antithetical to nihilism). reversal to "Believe in Nothing?"] kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnnVYoZ_rd6Kr8k [re: abortion?] kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3Wuhqlpj9CnmNU

[@thenomad4123]

The word you were looking for in the end was probably Armageddon :) I think the protagonist of the song is an atheist trying to contemplate the meaning of life and wanting to feel a sense of purpose while still holding on to science and materialism. He thinks he is right about his lack of belief but naturally the believers of the world is calling him insane and telling him to behave, that it is not what science is about, it can't interfere with religion. He just goes frustrated and feels crazy, and screams his frustrations on God if there is one because he is not showing himself among all these violent arguments. More or less what you said basically lol.

[@chrisb2942]

Dreaming Neon Black and Dead Heart in a Dead World are the better albums. I also don't get why so many brag about this song in particular. They have way better songs. I appreciated your reaction much, though. as always!

[@dertodesking.]

Top 5 metal bands of all time? Easily.

[@WhatDayIsItTrumpDay]

No, you're right, Warrel Dane's vocals are quite jarring and off putting at times. But that's been one of the major problems with Prog Metal in general. The vocals don't often, if ever really, fit with the music. There's only been a few Prog Metal bands that have nicely fitting vocals and one of then in the classic Queensryche. The Norwegian band, Pagan's Mind, isn't too bad with Nils K Rue, but even still, he's not a great fit. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when the music changes tempo, rhythm, etc, out of nowhere, it's hard to match the vocal style go that. Because vocals tend to be the most melodic instrument in most music going back decades, but when the instruments are all over the place, how do you match that up? However with Death Metal, you can be quite progressive in the instrumentals, while the harsh growling vocals actually fit the music quite well. I'm think of bands like Amon Amarth that are a bit groovier with their guitar riffs, or even DEATH who were quite progressive, where you couldn't see any other vocal style, besides Death Metal growls working with it. That said, I have just recently gotten into Nevermore, because Brutal Planet Records, an offshoot of Century Media (I think), have released their entire catalog on Gold Disc Editions that are of course Remastered. Just received the last of the 7 just last week. The band features Jeff Loomis on guitar, who now plays for Arch Enemy. He's the blonde guitarist. Nevermore quit producing albums in 2010 because of internal band issues, but they were just about to get back together and make more music, but Warrel got sick and actually died in 2017.

[@maffrocks666]

Warrell dane was such a good vocalist, he had a very uncanny ability to sing out of tune, in tune, intentionally

[@mramenlordi3098]

Agreed ! The way he sings out of tune on Enemies Of Reality (a big part of the whole album) gives that crazy/angry/psychotic feel that suit it so well. One of their most underrated album imo. Mostly because of the crappy mix when it first came out

[@Scizyr]

I hate when people try to put bands into little sub-genre boxes. "I think this band is Left-handed Swedish Technical Death Metal, therefore I will critique them as a Left-handed Swedish Technical Death Metal band and compare them to other Left-handed Swedish Technical Death Metal bands." Nevermore isn't even a progressive metal band. They are simply metal. If you stop trying to compartmentalize everything you'll enjoy the music a lot more and your reactions/analyses won't come off so misinformed and biased.

[@robertrisso4976]

Say one negative thing about Nevermore. I DARE YOU

[@cbn6635]

I'm sorry, but I hear absolutely NO metalcore (thankfully!) in the music of Nevermore. Rather, I hear semi-progressive US. power metal with melodic tech-thrash influences thrown in; a continuation and development of the classic Sanctuary sound. (Sanctuary being Warrel Dane's first band)

[@ambassadortourettes753]

I'm from Seattle and was blessed to have band practice next to Sanctuary's band practice unit... At the time when one would just rent storage units to do so 🙄There is nobody that sounds like Dane to this day in my opinion 🤔 AGREED 👌 Definitely definitely no metal core going on with these legends 🤘

[@Metalton95]

Power-prog, groove-thrash 🤪 No, but seriously. Vocals: Power Drums: Groove Riffs: Thrash Writing: Prog

[@cbn6635]

@@ambassadortourettes753 While I love Nevermore, I must say that the second and last Sanctuary album 'Into the Mirror Black' is still Warrel Dane's finest hour... 👌👌

[@ambassadortourettes753]

@@cbn6635 I honestly could not agree with you more 👌I as well enjoyed Nevermore for what they were 🤔 However my devotion is with Sanctuary.... Into the Mirror Black was killer despite missing Danes upper ranges not nearly being as showcased as on Refuge Denied... Listening to Battle Angels right now🤘

[@cbn6635]

@@ambassadortourettes753 Warrel's impressive high-pitched banshee-like wails on the debut was on par with the mighty metal god Rob Halford himself, but I feel his vocal delivery (in combination with the more mature and deeply personal lyrics) on 'Into the Mirror Black', was more well-rounded, moody and haunting.. 👌👌

[@xDamageProducer]

Metalcore? How dare you sir. Nevermore was Progressive Thrash.

[@pablogonzalez4044]

what an awful thumbnail. Like the most incorrect statement ive ever read, you know nothing of metal my guy.

[@Oliverastro]

Metalcore? Wtf?

[@demianseale501]

Metalcore? Immediately dismissed...

[@christopherwoods6]

Boring

[@CriticalReactions]

Thanks for the constructive feedback. I'll be sure to....uh....spice up analytical readings of music.